/lit/ - Literature

Traditional publishing:
>ensure your manuscript is fully completed and edited
>format it properly https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/ (if you're smart, you'll use scrivener which can export to whatever format you want in a few clicks)
>write a query https://www.janefriedman.com/query-letters/
>(optional) write a 1k word synopsis. not many agents ask for them, but you will feel as though you are dying when you try to write one, so might as well prepare one while you aren't also under the pressure of a deadline
>go to https://querytracker.net/ or similar site and find agents who fit your genre
>tweak your query letter to personalize it to them, usually only one or two lines at the end
>follow the instructions they provide for sending the query letter
>repeat around ten times
>wait a month or two
>if they all reject/ignore you, send ten more
>if anyone doesn't reject you, they'll request the first few chapters of your manuscript or the full thing
>follow their instructions and be polite

Are clichés okay?
I have a couple who can't have a kid, but it feels like an overdone trope.

>>16881362
Cliches are fine. Just develop it and make it unique to your story.

Anyone here on Royal Road? Share and I'll take a look and give feedback if you want it.

Is 2 pages ok for a shortstory?

This suddenly came to my mind and I wrote it out.

He, the hero, was the last one left in this hopeless battle. A peek to his right or left would have only shown him the corpses of soldiers, knights and mercenaries who all fought believing they would return alive.
But no, not even a peek could he allow himself. He forbade himself from looking anywhere but forward, the demon that had caused this carnage would not give him an inch.
Demon was without a doubt the right way to describe such a creature, its body could only be viewed as a mound of meat and fat, decorated with stubby arms, legs and a horrendous maw with layers upon layers of serrated teeth.
The hero breathed heavily, all its underlings proved to provide an exhausting fight, but the real fight was still to come. To his side the hero held a shining white sword, blessed by the goddess herself, which he dragged across the ground. Not much strength was left in him to hold it up front. The sword was sullied by demon blood and guts, but it did its job of cutting them down without a hitch. Every step towards the demon came with a heavy weight and the demon found only amusement in the heroes will to fight. But the hero was determined, determined to strike the demon down and avenge all those innocent lives lost. Their deaths would not be in vain.
The hero's last strength flashed across his body and he lunged past the demon while slicing it in two. The creature that had tortured and massacred so many had to face the same fate as they did.
Even for cries of joy there was no strength left, but the deed was done and those remaining could sleep in peace for a while.

>>16881509
Sure why not.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes

I was in their tunnels.

The Mormons have secret tunnels under the streets of Salt Lake City. I'd never known about them until the customer, an employee of the Mormon church, stooped down and lifted a block of sidewalk up as easily as could be.

The street above rolled away and I descended into the secret underbelly of the Mormon cult. The tunnels had seedy feeling as if they knew something I didn't. Something grotesque...

I piled the delivery boxes in a side room not far from the entrance to the tunnel. Then climbed back to the streets and just that quickly the secret tunnels under Salt Lake City disappeared.

To this day, I wonder what the Mormons needed all of the duct tape for.

Here's the deal: my main character is someone that was born with a physical disability but hides it because he hates having it control and limit him. Problem is, I'm not sure which disability he has, it should be something that is both serious enough to affect a persons life significantly but can at the same time be hidden or slightly remedied by training/other means. Do you guys have any suggestions? I'm currently leaning on a genetic disease that gives him brittle bones and stunts his muscle growth but I'd love to hear some suggestions or thoughts.

>>16881362
Clichés are narrative tools that just exists as they are, leaving the author very little wiggle room for innovation or improvement. Expressions such as "a fate worse than death" are clichés. Tropes, on the other hand, are also tools but which allow more creative freedom. "Boy meets girl" is a common trope, but there's so much variation you can incorporate into that premmise that you don't need to worry about not being entirely original.
Your infertile couple is a trope; there is nothing to worry about as long as you do something interesting with it.

>>16882283
Federico García Lorca had a leg shorter than the other. He was greatly embarrassed by this and tried to hide it by walking in a particular way, which ended up fooling a lot of people.

>>16882283

Intelligence.

High intelligence is socially crippling. It's dificult to communicate with other people. Those who need to fit in crush it with alcohol. Those who don't are prone to depression and isolation.

>>16881228
how bad is it that I write everything in vim?

>>16882322
Physical disablity, anon.

I received the highest score in my creative writing class again.

>>16882700
Are those classes just memes or do they actually help you improve? What can I learn in a creative writing class that I couldn't learn by writing every day on my own?

>>16882700
People who are better than me shouldn't be allowed to exist

>>16882700
congrats anon, you're growing in power
soon you'll make something great
probably
maybe

I feel that the longer I go writing my novel the less beautiful the text comes and the most prosaic it becomes. Is this normal? Will I be able to fix this in editing?

>>16882712
If you're starting from absolutely nothing, like My Immortal tier shit that a lot of the students in my class are writing, then they'll teach you the basics.

>>16882757
I think I'm better than that. Hopefully.

>>16882700
Good job anon, woo!

This is the anchor post for all rhino prompt stories. If you want feedback but have nothing for review then take the time to practice your writing with this prompt from a few threads back.

A big game hunter is wrapping up a tour in Africa. The hunter comes across an endangered white rhino, possibly the last rhino still living in the wild. The hunter discovers that (a) poacher/s are in the area. The hunter decides to protect the rhino. Write a short story from 500-5000 words (or more if you want) about this event.

Bonus goals:
1. Write the story in the style of Hemingway. Study his writing style and short stories and translate that into your own work.
2. Make the white rhino a symbol in the same vein as Moby Dick. It can be anything, but present this without directly telling the reader what the symbol means.
3. Humanize the poacher/s. Though it is easy to hate, it is harder to sympathize. Consider John Gardner's (who's books on writing are in the OP) critique of Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath , "Witness Steinbeck's failure in The Grapes of Wrath. It should have been one of America's great books...[S]teinbeck wrote not a great and firm novel but a disappointing melodrama in which complex good is pitted against unmitigated, unbelievable evil." (You don't have to agree with Gardner, but the critique is relevant to our purpose)
4. Make this story, which easily fits the archetype of drama, thriller, or action, a comedy, satire, or romance tale (please don't romance the rhino, unless you really want to, this one is for you to practice romcom anon)
5. Have a segment of the story, a prologue or even an epilogue that is written from a perspective that does not belong to the hunter. In The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber by Hemingway, Ernest briefly takes the perspective of the lion being hunted, try to do something similar with any of the characters you create.
6. Play with the time period and the framing. This idea was originally a shift in perspective of a sci-fi story about the preservation of a sentient virus by a doctor brought into a quarantine environment. I retooled the narrative when I found that people couldn't show sympathy for a sci-fi virus to something that people easily express sympathy for. Take this prompt and turn it into a similar story from the future or past. A cave man finds the last dinosaur, an alien finds the last human, a true A.I is accidentally created and the scientist responsible attempts to save it from destruction. Be creative.

Has anyone made progress on their stories? Feel free ask for help or discuss difficulties you're having with the process.

Don't forget to have fun while you write anons, and good luck.

Anybody got any advice for participating in a writing contest? I'd like to try my luck at a short story contest, but have never tried before. Are there any steps I should take into consideration besides the obvious one of trying to write as great a story as I can?

>>16882094
>>16882094
Hey it's you.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/37998/wish-mountain

I'll have to take the time and read through yours eventually. There's someone on RR that does free audiobook reads of works that's a pretty neat idea, would make keeping up with stories easier.

For my story I've got the first episode written, but it's going to take time to go over each chapter with my editor before each update. Hopefully it doesn't take forever.

>>16882854
Several factors will influence how you place in a contest. There will probably a specific word count and a theme or genre to work from. Then you should take into account the tastes of the judges. How do they write? What will they look at when they judge a story? Then think about the contestants. What is the level of the general entrant? Is the prompt geared for a certain type of person?
I would advise you to start with a tight story, and focus on the technical aspects of your writing. Check for readability. Make sure your characters are quickly established and engaging. It is better to have a competent piece that stays within expectations than to try to surprise with something you think is novel.
In the end you can't assure yourself a placement. Submit something you can be proud of and try to use it as a learning experience. If you don't win, look at the stories that did. Try to set aside bias and evaluate why they won. Use that information to improve your story or your contest selection.

If you want to submit a writing sample (something that isn't going to contest) I can take a look at it and give you some advice.

>>16882756
I feel the exact same way. On the one hand I think this is just shedding the fluffy prose that comes with starting a book. You want to start a book the way video game developers make the first hour of their game polished and the rest so-so. It's not ideal obviously but when we're talking 50k or more words quality is going to dip a little.

>>16882841

The last unicorn. I pulled out my King James Bible and carefully studied all of the relevant scriptures before closing the book reverantly.

"God, I thank you for the gift of seeing a unicorn close up." I approached the great beast., reminding myself that some unicorns have more than one horn and not to let the devil tempt me to doubt the words in my mahic holy book.

The sound of helicopter blades beating the drum of war grew in the distance. The demonically evil and yet somehow human monsters called negros had come to kill the unicorn and sell it's precious horn the Chinese pig dogs who were also somehow human even though they were absolute monsters.

"Come and gdt some." I whispered into the night. I ran to cover and waited.

The helicoptsr descended like a horny bumblebee. It disgorged a team of negro animal pig dog butchers who were somehow relatable and still human even though they were monsters who eekected the true God Jesus Chtist and worshipped the false prophet Muhammad.

"Peace be upon this, motherfuckers." I opened fire with my ak 47 and tore the nearedt negroes dick off with a bullet through the crotch. The others didn't fare any better.

When the dust settled, I walked up ti the last unicorn and gave it a big hug.

"You're welcome bro."

The unicorn farted.

>>16881362
Maybe use that to catapult some aspect of the story you may think is worth developing a little bit further.
The screenwriters in Mindhunter did it impecably. See Tench and his wife.

>>16881545
Any amount is okay as long as the story (as you visualize it) is properly developed.

>>16881228
Are there any good resources on writing a VN? I can draw pretty good, and recently I’ve sort of had an awakening when it comes to my love for reading. It’d be nice to mix the two hobbies together in some reasonable way.

>>16882283
Some kind of hideous skin disease?

>>16883198
Hello fellow VN writer. A lot of it is osmosis from different fields (creative writing, scripting, art/film), and people have different approaches according to their strengths and weaknesses. A big resource is the renpy forums at https://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/ , which deals specifically with VN production. Overall, though, it will probably take some more general research and looking at how other VNs do it to find how best to structure your setup.

>>16883306
Awesome, I appreciate the tips and direction.

When it comes to planning out a long story and it’s structure I assume the links in the OP should help? I’m just kind of writing blind at the moment to get my ideas down with no real knowledge on how to string together a story that’s on the longer side.

Not gonna lie. It feels good to just write bullshit and post it. Like scratching an old itch.

>>16883338
The links in the OP are mostly oriented toward the craft of writing/how to be an effective writer at the prose level, not so much how to produce a successful VN. If you have trouble writing stories right now, or if you aren't confident in your storytelling abilities, then feel free to give those resources a go.

With a VN specifically, be concerned with how long it is, whether there will be choices/routes, and how you can effectively organize the story you're making. I'd seriously caution against writing something very large to start with (Clannad is like a million words, for instance - Katawa Shoujo is 600k or so [and Doki Doki Literature Club is about 50k]), because if you're doing this as a solo project, the sheer volume of work will mean you never get past the writing stage. Consider that just a few additional routes, side stories, or choices can exponentially increase your workload.

A lot of generals questions/post mortems you can google, too, since EVN devs often have something to say on the subject:
https://fuwanovel.net/2015/01/a-guide-to-making-visual-novels/

>>16883435
Cool, I’ll check that out. Thank you. Kinda puts the whole thing into perspective. I think I’d be happy with something around the length of Saya no Uta.

And at the moment I can write quite a bit and tell a story well enough (at least enough to get screencapped and shared), but it’s the organization and planning part that sort of trips me up. I’ve only ever written short stories, so planning for a longer one is foreign to me.

>>16883477

Post something my dude. Write something new.

>>16883477
Got it. A lot of VN writers (and actual novelists) recommend Scrivener to outline/write the text itself, since it's more powerful than a basic word processor when it comes to slicing and dicing. If I still had my coupon code from last year's Nanowrimo I'd give it to you. There might be others floating around to get the price down to $30 or $25.

Just keep in mind the scale issue, because not only would you have to write for a segment, you'd have to script it and potentially create new assets for it. It all adds up, to the point something like that can be a yearlong or yearslong project solo.

>>16883493
I will tomorrow. Got an old mecha horror story that went over pretty well on /x/ and /m/ back in the day, though I’m sure it hasn’t aged super well as it was before I was really into reading or writing.
>>16883601
Sounds like I need to shrink the scale of what I’m thinking about making. Maybe do a few shorts ones until I sort of get the feel for everything.

How is the market for freelance writers? I'm thinking about writing some novels to practice my prose and get extra money.

I wrote a short story for a writing workshop I'm attending to, where the first-person narrator is a woman. I'm male, and the fact that my narrator is a woman kind of confused the teacher, and now he's asking me that it should be made clear from the first line that the narrator is a woman.
I'm thinking of dismissing his "critique", I mean, why should I concern myself specifying from so early that she's a woman when is revealed later on, through gendered adjectives (Spanish)? But I'd like to hear your opinions, maybe I'm missing something here.

I'm now 200 pages and 55k words into my second novel in the series I'm writing.

>>16883693
>I'm male, and the fact that my narrator is a woman kind of confused the teacher,
What?

>>16883680
Just a last little bit of food for thought is whether you want this to be a free game or to make a little money with it. Bringing in revenue may mean learning how to market/do a Kickstarter/hobnob with streamers, instead of releasing the game out in the wild and calling it done.

>>16883721
It is weird that my narrator is a woman or did I wrote that incorrectly? I'm a filthy ESL.

>>16883783
I'd change it to maintain your grade and keep your professor from getting pissed, but not because it's correct creatively to mention gender early on.

>>16883742
I’m thinking I’ll do a couple free ones and post them here to get critique, then once I feel more confident in what I’m doing I’ll up the scale a bit and work up from there. After talking with you I’ve got kind of a better idea on how to approach this whole thing. The only thing that might trip me up will be the OST. I’m kind of a creative Jack of all trades, but not when it comes to music.

>>16883823
But an important part of the theme of the story is that it's from the perspective of a woman. Maybe he's a retard and should stay mad.
I'm also considering that the first line be about her menstruation (altough it'd be difficult to make that coherent with the rest of the story, but I'll make something up).

>>16883783
It's weird that your teacher is confused that your character is a female. Does it really matter?

>>16883913
It doesn't, from my point of view. I mean, it does for me, because I constructed the character being a female. But it shouldn't be that important for the reader, at least if you aren't going full autist trying to pinpoint the importance of the character being a woman, and why it wouldn't read the same if it was a man.
But he made a great deal about it. Later he said that in a point of his life he developed the ability to tell if something had been written by a man or a woman (???). Either he was trolling me or trying to tell me that I write women poorly. Idk, but I sense he's not being straight with me.

>>16881228
Are there any good guides on how to use punctuation during dialogue? I just realized I have no idea how to do it.

/wg/, I'm starting to think I'm just not a writer anymore.

A few years ago I thought about writing constantly – and I constantly. Every time my mind didn't have something to occupy itself with (and even when it did) I was thinking about my writing.

About a year and a half ago, around the time I got a new job and started playing dnd, my interest in my writing just faded. I was no longer obsessing over it. At most I could hold an interest for two days, and then it deflated and I was back to feeling soulless

My brain's still been doing creative things. I've been thinking through a dnd setting with its own lore. but that's just dnd. for the most part, my passion as an author is just dead, and I don't think it's coming back no matter how much I want it to.

>>16884049
Writing when you feel like it is a meme. You won't get anywhere without writing every single day even if you have to force yourself occasionally

I'm trying to tackle writing like most people say, getting practice and reps in, but I also don't want to burn the few decent ideas I have in the process.

So what are some good random plot generators out there? Even if it's just one sentence ones, I can practice outlining, plotting and writing.

>>16884122
You could try Ai Dungeon. That's basically what it's designed for.

>>16884122
just invent new approaches to your best ideas

>>16884122

Ideas are cheap. Start now. You'll have better ideas once you've started.

>>16884122
I usually just tackle the idea I like, then if I think I can do it better later, I do.

>>16884136
Oh that's fucking wacky. Thanks.

>>16884156

If his ideas are too precious, use someone elses by writing fan fiction or writing prompts.

> but those ideas don't inspire me.

Neither will the ones you like now if you wait 5 years. You're procrastinating. Just write.

>>16884156
I do, do that, but it all just feels like an unending cycle after a while. I got twenty thousand words I', going to flush, because my previous way of outlining was flawed and I need to rewrite the beginning.

>he fantasizes about quitting his job so he'll have more time to write

haha what a loser

haha... :(

>>16884180

Then pretend you've already fixed those problems and keep writing.

*Here are the problems I have with the draft, x y z. I'm going to assume it's all fixed and keep going.

>>16884240
>he doesn't have a job to do with English

>>16883887
Royalty-free music is available online. Otherwise, it's plunking around on the software of your choice (or self-recording). Definitely worry about that last, considering how "easy" it is to put a checkmark in the box compared to scripting and writing.

>>16882194
not quite weird enough. i don't mean i want you to add more "eerie feeling / indescribable horrors abounded in my imagination" a la HPL. it just needs to have a little more surprise in it. something unexpected, a memorable detail, a connecting piece of the plot

>>16882700
>CW class
>score
nah, what you likely got was participation points

"To this day, I wonder what the Mormons needed all of the duct tape for."

Man. My prose sucks ass. Won't stop me but goddamn.

>>16883953
>Later he said that in a point of his life he developed the ability to tell if something had been written by a man or a woman
He is telling the truth. You probably don't realize it because you are young, but your prose most likely sounds like a man. Men prefer longer, more convoluted sentences and physical descriptions of details in the environment. Women prefer shorter, concise statements and often relate more to emotional characteristics. At least, this has been my experience in English. I can tell the difference, but I don't have the vocabulary to fully describe it to you. You are a man writing a narrator that probably sounds like a man, that's why the professor was confused. Carmen Maria Machado has some of the most identifiably female characters in contemporary lit. Lydia Davis and Anne Carson also kinda write femininely in their essays.

>>16884066
Disagree with this. My peers have praised my writing a great deal, especially those in grad school. And yet I only write once a week, if that. Eliot says that the poet is inherently lazy; he waits like a shooter in a blind.

>>16884122
Don't save your ideas. You'll often find that you can no longer recall them later on, or they will be mangled beyond recognition. Better to exsanguinate yourself in the moment of inspiration--let the blood make its mark on the paper

>>16884368

I'm not going to revise it, but if I did I'd have the narrator dealize he'd seen the tunnels before in his dreams.

>>16884447
sounds like a rip off borges

>>16884437
It's not the problem of good or bad writing. It doesn't matter if you are a super talented writer if for your whole life you can't't complete a single piece of work. Most people who write when they're inspired don't have their inspiration periods last long enough to get to the end, especially if you haven't trained your discipline before hand.

>>16884467
tunnels = borges
fuck off

>>16884467

Never read anything by him. But there is nothing new under the sun.

>>16884419
I kindly appreciate your input anon. Maybe I should change the narrator to a man after all (which would put him in a kind of homo situation, but anyways). I didn't picture the difficulty of thise, it'd be a thing to study for the future, that for sure. Must be interesting.
I'll try to check those authors you mention. Seriously, thanks.

>>16884485
no, dreams = borges
also, sudden realization that the dream is being reduplicated = highly borges
To illustrate this, read Ibn Hakam, The Other Death, Tadeo Isidoro Cruz, and The Man on the Threshold

>>16884531
fuck off

>>16884547
absolutely not, you illiterate. you should admit when you don't know what you're talking about

I was about to ask this in /co/ but I wanted to give this a try here.

Is it alright to introduce a character as jaded and then almost immediately change his outlook on life? It's not that I won't have the time or that I'm obligated to rush it but it's possible for the event that would change him to happen earlier than the audience would usually expect it.
And, is there such a thing as a jobber threshold? Like, a point a character reaches where he is cemented as a jobber and considering him to be a threat becomes laughable?

>>16884556
La vida es sueño, amigo

>>16884531
He's right, you're being an insufferable retard. You sound like someone who can't help but namedrop every single writer you have read in every fucking conversation.

>>16884665
one cannot help the plebes by stooping

>>16884670
And pseuds can't reach the great by tiptoeing on their inflated ego

Reposting this short story I wrote in another thread.

John searched the street for his friend Van, but he was nowhere to be seen and over twenty minutes late. Where was he?
"Hello, John."
Fear ran up Joun's spine. Dread caught in his throat. It couldn't be. John looked up into the eyes of Claude.
It really was Claude. His demonic presence loomed over John making him feel as small as the day in elementary school when he'd first gained Claude's attention.
"C-claude. What are you doing here?"
Claude slapped the cards from John's hands and grabbed him by the collar of his blue shirt. Claude's breath stank of alcohol. "Keeping the streets clean of trash."
John tried to stop him, but Claude pushed him up against the iron fence, lifting him threateningly over the river water. "Stop!" John yelled. He couldn't swim. "Somebody help me help me!"
Claude laughed, his eyes promised pain. "You are sucha pussy, you know that." Claude smiled.
John screamed and redoubled the fight. Fear washed over him. Claude would throw him into the river and he'd drown. John felt the warm shame of piss running down his jeans.
Claude was stronger. He was going to be thrown in. A crowd formed watching the boys struggle. No one moved to help him. That's when John saw him. "Van.." he cried. "Van help me."
Van looked at John with pity in his eyes and walked on by.
The betrayal destroyed John.
Claude dropped him over the rail and into the river.
John wanted to drown, wanted to forget the world.
But, the river was not directly under the rail. John landed in a heap of dog shit.
He wept. "Damnit, said John, "Claude. Van. Damn"

>>16884686
speak for yourself, you who have added nothing to the discussion except ad hominem. feel free to refute my critique at any time

>>16884698
It's not a critique, idiot. That's what we're trying to say. Just because some other author did it before you that doesn't invalidate your work. Not every single work of art is going to be extremely innovative.
From Borges: "Lo verdaderamente importante no es que exista un número muy reducido de modelos, sino el hecho de que esos pocos modelos admitan casi un número infinito de variaciones. "

>>16884698
What discussion? The one where you implied dreams and experiencing a scenario you have dreamt of are Borges? Next you will make me arguing that all stories with creation myths aren't Bible rip-off

>>16884743

At some point you'de going to realize there are no original ideas and the only originality in writing is the author's voice.

But by all means keep being an argumentative faggot.

>>16882964
Oh cool, thanks. best of luck on yours too.

>>16884767
Said the unoriginal faggot. Keep coping

>>16884786

I don't need to worry about being original. I am who I am, and that is enough.

>>16884791
>reddit spacing
Like pottery

>>16884794

I am comfortable posting the way I want.

Dilate.

I managed to write a story that's like psychoanalytically tailored to fuck myself up. Anyone else probably wouldn't think much of it, but it's the specific combination of words, atmosphere, and themes that just destroys me. I can't even edit the climax without tears starting to flow. Oh god what have I done

>>16884725
>Just because some other author did it before you that doesn't invalidate your work
I'd say this depends upon one's level of awareness of forerunners, and whether one retreads their ground or improves upon them meaningfully. Eliot says those who repeat the canon don't add to it--I agree completely. One's work may be delightful and "historically redundant" at the same time. (I'm being slightly facetious with that phrase, because I'm aware of Menard and the animating power of context, but then again, Menard itself is a facetious story). Also, style is everything. I'm so glad no serious poet today writes like Byron. It's okay to be a Luddite, but on a societal, macroscopic scale blind nostalgia is a fool's game.
>>16884743
I'm not sure why you're so against this proposal. If the recursive dream is so prevalent, name 2 different authors who use it as a motif, let alone as often as Borges.

>>16885013
post an excerpt

>>16881545
yes, google microfiction for example

>>16885290

> Eliot said.

Who cares? Your opinion is wrong and stupid. Enjoy jerking off, but have the decency to do so in private.

>>16885442
dont talk to me

>>16885315
A random excerpt wouldn't make any sense if you haven't read the full story.

>then there's THAT guy

Poem I wrote, let me know what you all think:

The frost of winter now arrives,
and all that is golden is gone.
Skeletons are all that survives,
wooden bones with no flesh upon.

Frost so soon, as cold as the moon,
chases nature's raiment away.
Crystal water, December's daughter,
heralds Autumn's closing day.

Two months, too fast! Don't leave again!
It isn't loneliness I fear.
It's waiting, it's watching, please shorten
the time 'til October next year!

Good thread ok, thanks.

I write for a living. Blogs, I get paid about 10 cent per word. It's hell. You write about shit you don't care about, enriching the owners. It sucks the joy out of writing. Dare I say, it's stupid and gay? I do like writing in itself ought, just not content marketing for any gay fucking company.

whoooo books are live on Amazon

>>16885709
Give me your job then, I'll give you mine, have fun wanting to kill yourself every day.

>>16883713
Awesome; keep at it! You've acomplished so much already.

Why do you write? For fame? For respect?

>>16885831
For fun.
I write because I have stories in my head and want to see them on page.
I don't even show my stories to anyone, I just want to write, it's fun.

>>16885831
So people will stop looking down on me :(

>>16885831
I've been touched by the literature I have read and I want to evoke those same emotions on other readers through my own words. It's vain; but I wish to stand on equal ground with those whom I admire, or at the very least to catch some of their brilliance by standing taller than where I currently am.

Thoughts on the word "suddenly"? Is it cringe?

>>16885831
For fun

>>16885786
What's your job?

>>16885931
I'm a caregiver.

>>16885867
It's best no to abuse it. It fits dialogue better than narration.

>>16885867
In theory. But in practice you won't even realize it's there. Even Tolkien used it often.

Guys I have found someone who has a really good story and I want to copy it in another language, what are the chances of me getting caught? He hasn't published his book yet, he just posted the plot online.

>>16886138
Why can't you just write your own things? God will always know what you did anyway and you'll have to answer for it on Judgment Day.

>>16886156
This guy has an idea that is way better than anything I would ever come up with. It has potential to be the next harry potter you'd have to be retarded to not steal this.

>>16881228
How do I cope with the fact that my readers will probably fail to connect/relate with the themes I want to tackle in my writing?
Should I just embrace my inner hackery and start pandering?

>>16886138
>>16886212
What's the plot?

>>16886212
It's not your idea. You steal it now, you'll never be able to make the next Harry Potter because you stole only the first book and Harry Potter was 7 books. Where will you get the other 6? Stop. If you think an idea is worth stealing, you're too stupid to use it.

>>16885831
Fun, and I have very specific taste that nobody else is doing, so I have to make it myself.

I just do it incredibly badly.

>>16886213
what themes are you tackling? are they so alien to the human condition?

>>16886212
Tell us the idea and we'll tell you how to change it to not be caught
Best writers steal after all

>>16886258
>>16886223
>>16886239
I'm not sharing you retards it's finally my chance to escape poverty and I don't want you telling him till after I publish before him

>>16886272
No it isn't. You'll never be able to execute that idea, whatever it is. You don't know how to make it work. Do you really think you could write Philosopher's Stone based off of the text on the back? You're an idiot. You already failed.

>>16886243
tl;dr: the theme of goals of an individual always being at odds with society and how he can be completely justified in leaving it in pursuit of fulfillment.

>reposting from last thread

2,500 words if you want to waste some time. r8, h8, comment8
https://pastebin.com/DnrJqcr9

>>16886318
>Warning - Potentially offensive content ahead!
every time

>>16884049
This isn't an uncommon thing and you are thinking about things way too much. Remember that it's a hobby and the more you are saying you "should" do it, the less likely you'll want to do it.
On top of that, the better you get at writing, the less you want to do it because you know how much effort it takes to create something high quality.
If you're the type of person who can create habits, give yourself a period every day to brainstorm and then a period to write. Disregarding if you actually write every day, make the time, and chances are you will end up writing.
If you're the type of person that has their motivation killed by schedules, tell yourself you're done with writing, backup all your stuff to some place so you can't see it like dropbox and then tell yourself you aren't allowed to think about things related to writing. No brainstorming, no planning, no remembering old works. Chances are, you'll find strong inspiration somewhere and desperately want to write and at that point, you allow yourself.

I'm the latter type and I do that every year or so, when I haven't wrote a word in three months and I'm 100% decidedly positive I'm not a writer and it was all "just a (20 year long) phase" and I'll never write again and I feel wholly defeated because nothing feels inspiring.

>>16886323
Anon, you post this every thread.
Yes, Pastebin now has a filter to detect any swear words.
Please get over it.

Romance short story 1-5 pages. I need ideas as fast as possible, please help.

>>16886379
Boy goes to a girl's apartment, she ties him up, blindfolds him and gets him off real good.

>>16886384
no erotica please

>>16886391
And I guess the romance of adventure is off the table as well? Fuck it then. Not worth writing.

>>16886379
Go for the perfume-ad-tier of: Random strangers in mundane situation lock eyes for a second and romance starts.

>omg I like that stranger time! Oh well to get off the buss
>omg me and that stranger get in this bus often
>omg I should totally say something to said stranger
>I did it! time to date
>omg stranger has a dark past, don't worry stranger i had dark past too!
>wow wee we're so alike and compatible wanna go to my place?
>implied sex
>the end

Something like this but less retarded

>>16885290
>and whether one retreads their ground or improves upon them meaningfully
It's important to know that no all the people that write do so to "add" to the canon. Some people don't even have notion of what the canon is, and yes I think that's sad but it is what it is. For many people it will be enough to write well, or to write funny stuff for they friends to read, or something that they can sell, and so on. I also agree with the Eliot quote you are referring to, but I think you shouldn't extend it to all the writers.

>>16881362
What's the difference between a cliche and an archetype?
I feel confident that there is a difference, but I don't know how to explain it.

>>16886486
archetype is more like a pattern you use to make your story better, you use that pattern to turn it into something more original

cliche is just the same thing used so often it's lost its original meaning

I hate the stupid argument "you shouldn't worry about people stealing your ideas because what matters the most is execution" fuck you retards. Ideas is literally my only talent, there are other writers out there who can execute simple ideas far better than me, if they were to steal my ideas I will get BTFO. I have every right to be cautious with my ideas.

>>16886528
If ideas are your only talent you're going nowhere fast. Lucky for you that's probably not true and you're just being hard on yourself/need to work on improving your skills more.
As for idea "theft," it is impossible to steal an idea, because ideas are intangible.

>>16886138
>he just posted the plot online.

>it's another guy who thinks ideas mean anything

>>16886546
>you're going nowhere fast

I am already doing good actually anon, people like you seem to not understand what makes a story interesting. You don't have to be a super good writer to get people to read and like your book. You can have horrible prose, cringe dialogue and still attract people to your work. People like you underestimate good ideas are NGMI

>>16886546
>it is impossible to steal an idea, because ideas are intangible.
retard

>>16886547
I like how /lit/ tries to pretend that there aren't extremely successful books out there with horrible writing. They seriously think that a good premise, setting & characters can't carry a story. But keep on thinking this, keep on pretending that those books don't exist, that all successful movies have top quality writing, that all anime and shows out there rival shakespeare

>>16886577
>They seriously think that a good premise, setting & characters can't carry a story.

They can, if they're well executed ;^)

>>16886584
So are you going to argue that fairy tail is well executed?

>>16886566
>I am already doing good
if that's the truth, then it would seem ideas aren't your only talent, wouldn't it?

>>16886567
>no counter
ok

>>16886616
Dude, at least pretend we're talking about literature here.

>>16886636
Don't (you) me, retard. I might catch the stupid

I like how /lit/ shows how retarded they are, they try to argue that writing quality matters more than a good idea, but then fail to acknowledge shows/movies/books with bad writing that are successful. The cognitive dissonance coming from you guys is insane.

>>16886636
Let's take this idiot as an example. He thinks you need more than a good idea to be successful but then fails to acknowledge the existence of franchises that are success purely off their premise/setting/concept.

>>16886566
>You don't have to be a super good writer to get people to read and like your book. You can have horrible prose, cringe dialogue and still attract people to your work.
Really think about these two sentences for a while. Think about why you wrote them and what you are defending. Think about what it is you are advocating for, having typed them.

>>16886661
He's right though.

>>16886658
Name some successful book series that have bad writing. Not "not perfect, but still publishable" writing, but legitimately bad writing.

The tomb raider was walking through a dark tunnel when suddenly,...

>>16886666
I'm not arguing the veracity of the point, I'm arguing whether the point should be considered, given what exactly it is advocating for.

>>16886671
All LNs

>>16886685
They aren't successful, unless you consider successful selling a few hundred or thousand books to uncultured weebs to make up for licensing costs. I'm talking a single author going through traditional publishing with bad writing, where their ideas carry them.

>>16886677
A SKELETON POPPED OUT

>>16886698
Stephanie Meyer
Whoever wrote Fifty Shades

>>16886323
it's only like four fucks and a cunt anon don't worry about it

/lit/ commonly says that light novels have bad writing and are poorly executed. But they also want to argue that you need good writing & execution to have a successful book.

That's cognitive dissonance, they can't both be true you fucking retards. Notice how pussy this entire community is to even ATTEMPT at refuting my argument. Pick ONE you fucking retards, either light novels have bad writing or they don't and you can have a successful book even with poor execution & writing. A good idea, premise, setting & characters matters more than your execution & writing skills.

>>16886658
>but then fail to acknowledge shows/movies/books with bad writing that are successful.

What do you think about this car? Its manual is terribly written, but it's really popular! That proves writing quality has no effect on success, right? OR MAYBE THIS THING, LIKE MOVIES AND CARTOONS AND COMICS AND SHIT HAVE OTHER FEATURES THAT MATTER MORE THAN THE WRITING YOU DUMB TRIPLE NIGGER

>>16886698
>selling a few hundred or thousand books to uncultured weebs is not successful.
Read Sword art online

>>16886698
>unless you consider successful selling a few hundred or thousand books
Bro you have no idea how many copies light novel authors actually sell

>>16886701
Come on /wg/, you can do better than that.

>>16886698
Are you now arguing that all books that got published have good writing?

>>16886726
There is literally nothing scarier than a skeleton.

>>16886717
You moron, there are things that matter more than the writing quality in books.

>>16886677
A VAMPIRE POPPED OUT

>>16886712
I prefer reading some shitty LNs than most tedious to read "masterpieces". LNs are fun, easy to read and follow, don't break up promises. Sure, 99% of them aren't written with a beautiful prose but who cares about that, fun is more important

>>16886741
>Want to have fun instead of miserable
Fucking normies

>>16886745
My life is miserable enough, why wouldn't I run away to a magical world?

>>16886737
At this point "writing quality" in your argument is a nonword that you're freely changing to mean whatever you want it to mean. Stop baiting already and fuck off

>>16886705
They both have decent and publishable writing, or they wouldn't have been as popular as they were. To anyone experienced in reading and writing, they'd seem amateurish, but they are standard levels of low quality amongst publishers. Meanwhile, LNs are very poorly translated and would never make it through traditional western editors and publishers. They know the weebs will simply buy whatever because cute girl pictures.

>>16886718
>>16886724
They probably sell more in the west than I think, I've never looked it up, but they're basically a brand with an anime and fandom behind them, they're not a standalone work.

>>16886729
No, not at all. Books with poor writing do get published, but there is a modicum of quality necessary for things to be successful, and it's pretty high. They may write mostly trash by more cultured standards, but James Patterson's group and his copycats do at least follow a strict protocol for their writing. It reads like a movie, but the pacing and sentence structures all lend into the experience. I wouldn't ever choose to put myself through one, but if it was between them and a poorly translated LN, I'd choose Patterson.

>>16886741
But that's what I'm trying to teach /lit/ they keep telling other people that your prose and writing quality matters more than anything else. They keep telling other writers that it doesn't matter how good your idea/setting/premise is.

>>16886755
>>16886752
Are you stupid monkeys going to argue that shades of grey has really good writing?

>>16886750
>>16886741
Why does a standard book with depth of description not allow you to run away to a magical world? Do you think if you read a regular fantasy novel that your brain won't adapt to the slight increase in reading difficulty? Do you think you'll struggle every time you pick it up instead of learning and appreciating the increase of detail and subtleties? Don't you aspire to read new and more complex stories that can satisfy your mind in different ways?

>>16886712
/lit/ is not one person.

>>16886779
>/lit/ is not one person.
This is a copout answer and doesn't address the argument.

>>16886658
>>16886657
On the off chance you'll open up your mind and consider the thoughts of this idiot:
Firstly. Ideas are not objects. They cannot be traded by hand. They exist in a place intangible and unobservable except by transferrance to another form (i.e. the written word). One can only claim possession of an object. One cannot claim possession of that which is not tangible.
Secondly. You are founding your opinions on the assumption that your ideas are yours and yours alone. They are not. They are a compilation of the ideas you have absorbed throughout your life, edited, twisted, and sculpted to fit the needs of whatever particular work you have in mind. I will repeat it for emphasis: they are not yours. They belong to everyone and no-one.
As an example, imagine you have written a book. You can claim ownership over the book itself. You cannot claim ownership of the ideas that come out of that book. And you most certainly cannot claim ownership of the ideas that went into it.
Obviously, copyright law disagrees with me on all of this. But those laws are a very modern occurence. Imagine if, throughout the entirety of history, your stubborn dogma was commonly held truth. There would be no Romeo & Juliet, its ideas being "stolen" from old Roman mythology. There would be no Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost, their ideas being "stolen" from The Holy Bible and the generations of creed that it inspired. This concept of "stealing" ideas is a completely new development, founded solely on thoughtless egotism, and galvanized by unchecked corperate greed. They are detrimental to the human collective creative unconscious.
I have no intention of changing your mind. I know that's impossible. This is just a blogpost. My only solace is that one day men like you will be dead and new men will be left free to discard these foolish platitudes. But I hope you'll at least do me the courtesy of writing out a reply that actually contends with that which you disagree with and not just another mindless dismissal.

I lost the post I was going to reply to but here's another thing:
This whole argument of ideas being more important than actual skill seems go be founded on the assumption that ideas and writing exist completely separate. I don't know how anyone can consider that to be true. As you improve your skills as a writer, your ideas themselves improve, too. They grow more refined, better pronounced. I think that to say you have good ideas but are bad at writing is just a silly act of self-deprication. If you've got good ideas, then you're a good writer.

>>16886779
>Don't you aspire to read new and more complex stories that can satisfy your mind in different ways

No. This is what /lit/ has trouble processing and why you guys will never make a good book. You really don't understand why people read books and haven't grasped that you guys are an extremely tiny minority, this echo chamber distorted your perception of what makes a story worth reading. You guys are literally wasting your time learning how to come up with good prose or how to write a specific sentence when instead you should be developing skills on the main things that make a book worth reading.

Let me simplify it for you. Do you really think it matters how complex or how great the prose is for a story if it's just about a gay prostitute who fell in love with their client? I still don't want to read the book.

>>16886848
Your post has nothing to do with what you're replying to, if you're this dumb how are you going to write a book?

>>16886879
>Your post has nothing to do with what you're replying to,
What I was replying to was essentially just "you're a moron" so that's no surprise. I was expanding on ideas thay I laid out here >>16886546

>>16886848
>Firstly. Ideas are not objects
For the love of god, stop posting and neck yourself

I think people are mistaking what an idiot is. When /lit/ thinks of idea they think of "A story about time travel" when I think of an idea, I think of the entire outline of steins;gate. Then it's just a matter of finding the right words to put it into a book. If someone steals your outline and has better writing than you, then you get fucked.

>>16886879
>>16886892
Why the fuck do you people come here? Just to work out some cathartic expression of repressed negativity? Are you too pathetic to call out idiots in your waking lives, so you come here to get it out of your system?
If you're going to reply to me without even fucking reading my posts, don't fucking bother. Go back to twitter where you've got a chance at "going viral" for being a mindless asshole.

>>16886907
Meant to say idea instead of idiot but this sounds better.

>>16886879
You seem like you're coping, friend. I and at least one other are traditionally published novelists. I don't mean complex to read, I mean complex plot-wise. An anime story has few aspirations aside directly telling a titillating story, whereas a novel tries to be subtle and make things realistic by fleshing them out. I don't mean complex as in Joyce difficult, though compared to a LN, a standard novel is moreso. I mean intricate.

>>16886807
What is the argument? You posted two differing viewpoints and claimed that people on /lit/ think both of them at the same time. Can you point out someone who claimed both things to be true in one post?

>>16886907
Well, yeah, an outline is not an idea, it's a summary explaining of how multiple ideas are connected to make a story.

>>16886907
>When /lit/ thinks of idea they think of "A story about time travel"
>when I think of an idea, I think of the entire outline of steins;gate
I don't know what that is but it seems like you're talking about the difference between the written explanation of an idea and the idea itself. Whenever I have a work in mind, I generally don't imagine it in terms of "it's about X doing Y." I think of the gesture of the story. The way it flows, the way it's shaped. (this isn't a good description but to fully explain the way ideas work in words is a fool's pursuit.)
It's contrasted against the "pitch," which is what I tell people when they ask what I'm writing about. It's usually something along the lines of pic related. A logline. I think of this as an infantilization of the idea itself.

Be real with me /wg/; am I a hack if I use a thesaurus?

>>16886957
No, it shows you're aware of your limitations and seek to improve. It shows maturity in your thinking.

>>16886957
No, but you need to be careful deciding what words you use. Like, some synonyms are better than others depending on your sentence

>I ran through the woods

>I accelerated through the woods

>>16886957
No, just use it when there is a word you can't remember or know you've already used a word once or twice recently and need something else natural sounding.

>>16886957
No, but you're still a hack.

Why would I want advice from /lit/ or other writing communities? Imagine this, you have hundreds of books teaching people how to write (written from people who have no successful novels of their own), you have all these materials and yet 99% of the people who take this advice will never write a good book in their life. Isn't that a sign that I shouldn't take advice from you guys. It'd be different if a good percent of you guys were successful. And don't give me that argument "Hey at least a few of us are successful!" yes.. a few out of thousands, I don't like those odds desu.

>>16887025
Do what your heart tells you. Decide everything by yourself. Have your own mind.

Don't listen to faggots. You are better than that.

>>16887025
/lit/ doesn't write, /fit/ doesn't lift, /tv/ doesn't watch shows or movies, /b/ isn't random, etc etc
I just come here to blogpost and get into arguments

>>16887025
Stop shitting up the thread. Do what you want.

>>16887036
This I don't think people should really take advice seriously on the internet. For all you know you could be getting advice from a 9 year old.

>finally came up with an idea for the scene in my book that was giving my hardcore writer's block
i fucking love taking showers

>>16887073
I created my best ideas and wrote best stories after long showers
shit's divine

>>16887068
>For all you know you could be getting advice from a 9 year old.
If you can't tell when you're getting advice from a 9-year-old, then you probably need it.

>>16887068
When it comes to advice I think it's pretty one sided. You ask for advice while you already unconsciously know what to do, you just need to hear it from the outside. You'll take and interpret what's given to you thusly. Someone could reply to you with an AI generate response and it might still help you.

>want to make my character miserable
>want to see him suffering just so he can get stronger later and fight what he fears
>it's fun because you hate that faggot for some reason, enjoy making him suffer
>realise you are writing about yourself
>realise you will never get stronger like your character
>realise you will always be like that unless you kill yourself

Are info dump chapters always bad?
I have some lore I need another character to know, but slowly trickling it out doesn't feel right. I think it would feel more natural if the two characters sat down and had an actual conversation about it.

>>16887098
How old do you think I am?

>>16887135
Great, now isekai him

>>16887141
>Are info dump chapters always bad?
Yes.
>I think it would feel more natural if the two characters sat down and had an actual conversation about it.
Then have the information trickle out through this conversation.

>>16887141
It depends if your series had lots of build up and was relying on a mysterybox to keep peoples interest. Like darling in the franxx. Metal Gear Solid is all about info dumps and it doesn't harm the story since the main appeal is learning about all the complex politics going on

>>16887141
i remember when i read shit like glukhovsky's metro where in 2nd chapter he described every single thing about metro
I didn't fucking care about that, I didn't care why this underground nation fought this underground nation some years ago, so fucking boring I dropped this shit
"bestseller" btw

>>16887150
This is why you shouldn't take advice from /lit/ this retard thinks info dumps are ALWAYS bad and doesn't even consider the context the story is written for. In highly political stories info dumps can be important since it's the main focus of the plot.

>>16887157
Getting info to the reader is important, the method you use is a different matter. Infodumps are bad, there's no case where infodumping isn't the worst method of getting information to the reader. If it's your only method, go ahead, but chances are this is you having written yourself into a corner rather than actually being forced.

>>16887169
This is wrong. You have never played metal gear solid.

>>16887141
Nothing is "always bad" but having large chunks of pure exposition is usually a bad idea. Whatever you do, just make sure it's interesting to read.

>>16887184
I did get the feeling your knowledge of writing came from videogames and likely isekais and Jap LNs where infodumps are a standard, now I'm pretty certain.

If you just wanted to void the value of your opinion, good job you did it.

>>16887151
>darling in the franxx
At least be a weeb with taste if you have to be one, instead of an ironic weeb who uses the disgrace of the mecha genre as an example. Kys

>>16887197
>isekais and Jap LNs where infodumps are a standard
what?
i've never seen infodumps in light novels i read, that's the point, they just go with the story

>>16887210
Nothing you have uttered in this post is true

>>16887197
Light novels don't have info dumps. This is funny because you tried to argue that someones opinion is void and in doing so invalidated your opinion in the process. Quit talking about shit you have no knowledge on.

>>16887210
>i've never seen infodumps in light novels i read

>>16887135
>>realize you are writing about yourself
I always feel that my characters are different versions of myself, who approach their conflicts differently based on their past experience. I can see myself in every single character I write, but no single character jumps out especially as being "jus leik meh"

>>16887141
Fantasy has a ton of "info dumps" under the guise of "worldbuilding".

It could work.

>>16887169
>Infodumps are bad
I can think of a good handful classic works that would counter this
>LOTR has long passages explaining the history of the world and the creatures that inhabit it
>Moby Dick has an entire chapter just explaining Cetology
I think thr "infodumps bad" mentality is a fairly recent development, perhaps coinciding with the invention of cinema, where pure exposition is absolutely detrimental to the film.

>>16887210
>infodump
>four pages of dialogue with every character's emotions and body language directly stated and exaggerated
>infodump
>four pages of action scene which explains a random scientific phenomenon poorly as it relates to the current situation and how it will be used to achieve victory
>three pages of character outfit and exaggerated body language description
>infodump
>action scene which corrects the knowledge delivered in the infodumps and explains how things REALLY are
>two pages of characters stuttering being unable to convey any emotions, otherwise no one would buy the book because the "romance" would be over

here's your LN bro

Why is "show don't tell" a rule for writing prose? I thought that saying was exclusive to film. It doesn't even make sense with prose, your only way to communicate in writing is to "tell."

>>16887263
It's worse when they feel the need to minidump info at every fucking thing in the most awkward way possible:
>Konbanwa Tamaki-san, head chairman of the chingchong institute of superpowered highschoolers who fought in the war of tingtong beside Chang the Rice Eater
It's the constant flow of microdumps that makes me cringe, whenever a character is introduced you get one explaining his basics, whenever a plot point is mentioned there's another microdump, and sometimes they'll even do it multiple times for the same thing just in case your memory only extends as far back as last chapter.

>>16887258
Both of those instances are not infodumps. The entire reason LotR was written, and why it was popular, is because of the world. If Tolkien hadn't been an autistic worldbuilder and language lover, it would've fallen under the radar like Viriconium and other great fantasy books. But, disregarding that, there are not many long straightforward passages which deliver information, almost everything is done through context and it never feels out of place. An infodump is more than just "telling information" otherwise all books could be considered infodumps. Moby Dick is about a man hunting a whale and you need to explain whales in order for laymen to understand a damn thing about them. Never once does it feel like what is being written isn't molded into the entire story.
I'm not that anon, but infodump has a negative connotation and implies taking a page or two or three to explain world concepts, not just delivering information about the world. If a character logically has a reason to explain certain aspects to another character, or if the reader needs vital information and it can be invisibly folded into the ongoing narrative, it's not an infodump, it's just writing. It's when something is happening and then suddenly you're being told the history of something which should have already been developed by more subtle means.

>>16887283
>Konbanwa Tamaki-san, head chairman of the chingchong institute of superpowered highschoolers who fought in the war of tingtong beside Chang the Rice Eater
I did this in my new book to introduce main characters, is it bad?

>>16887279
It relates more to using evocative, less direct descriptions rather than very flat ones. Both can be useful.

>>16887283
>Chang the Rice Eater
who could forget his feats of eats, the madman

>>16887279
Show don't tell goes for writing too anon and definitely exists.
>tell
>"The temperature outside was freezing as I opened the front door"
>show
>"I felt a chill run up my spine as I opened the front door and the draft hit me"
It's claiming something vs actually describing it happening. Same with how you could dump two lines explaining how strong your fantasy hero is, or you could "show" it by writing a paragraph in which he easily dispatches a Troll.
>>16887297
Mine was not an exaggeration (besides the names of course), a lot of Japanese LNs do exactly as I wrote. Did you do it to that extent? In that case yeah it's definitely a very awkward and clumsy way to introduce a character. Take longer to drop info about characters, and don't be afraid to leave the reader in the dark about the details for quite a while, there's no need for you to display your entire character's motivations and backstory immediately.

>>16887279
The whole job of the writer is to extirpate whatever reality he's describing from its common, normalized understanding. In the sentences : I love you", or "I hate you", which is simple communication, the words love and hate refer to a standardized type of love or hate that fails to grasp the individuality of the feelings they refer to when someone names them that way. The writer needs to show that individuality, to give it back the life and humanity common, communication based language has stripped it of. And for that, he has to show how that love or hate manifests, how it is not some standardized notion applicable equally to just anyone, but a bag of infinite colours whose arrangement depends on who and what it applies to.
If not, prose would just be the passive description of life, using consensus winning words in order to maximise comprehension and speed of comprehension.

How do I make the female characters useless without it looking intentional?

>~
What do you think about that? For example
>Jooohn~, I think you're right!
is it retarded? does it belong to literature?

>>16887423
Just write a man and take away the reason and accountability

>>16887441
Yes, that is indeed retarded and reeks of someone who's read too much manga.

>>16887441
Pretty much what>>16887451
said, you're a weeb and probably on the autism spectrum. Writing literature is not for you. Your output would likely have all the quality of Sonichu.

>>16887470
I asked a question about dialogues, I didn't ask about your opinion about me you stupid nigger. Learn how to answer correctly.

>>16887486
Your dialogue is on par with Christian W. Chandler. Reconsider the choices that led you to this place in life. Trace your steps and choose another path.

>>16887423
Write them realistically and it will turn out the way you want.

>>16887486
>"How DARE you give your opinion beyond a yes or no. I asked if using it was retarded, the fact that I am considering doing something retarded has nothing to do with me!"

>>16887486
wanting to write shit like that is a surefire sign of functional illiteracy. you struggle to express yourself in writing so you seek to supplement it with text formatting that emulates the tones and rhythms of speech. there's no way for this conversation to not be personal because your question relates immediately to your personal failing.

How do I generate more ideas? I'm able to more crudely think of better dialogue and writing when I'm in the middle of Erotic Role Play than banging my head against the wall to see what ideas come out when writing this novel.

>>16887665
Redpill about ideas: new ideas are born from mixing together old ideas

>>16887380
Holy shit nigga, surely you don't expect me to read all THAT

>>16887665
have you tried "reading"

>>16887380
good post

>>16887142
Probably 5, considering how bad you are at reading comprehension.

>>16887380
You could write it in two short sentences, instead you wrote 152 words.
Why? Are you okay?

>>16887736
so going by your words you need advice from a 9 year old, sad.

>>16887737
>job of writer is explaining things to reader
There, I translated it so you can understand it too. I, too, hate words and reading and writing.

/lit/ thinks that shades of grey has good writing.

>>16887754
No bro, you need 150 words more. We can't comprehend feelings you try to describe in just 152 words. Let's continue with your bag of infinite colours and giving them back to humanity.

>>16887768
Do you really hate unique expression through varied words so much?

>>16887737
go on then, write what he wrote in two short sentences. let's see your mastery of prose economy.

>>16887762
I could scrawl better smut in my local church's hymn books

>>16887686
This is true but it generally isn't a conscious process, so being aware of this won't help him

>>16887665
Ideas are like GFs. When you're looking for them they're nowhere to be found, but one day you'll turn a corner and she'll be standing there.

>>16887833
Have you ever found a girlfriend?

>>16887841
:(

>>16887841
Yes but they were always someone else's...

>>16887721
Writers write.
Readers read.

>>16886671

Twilight
50 Shade of Grey

Basically, if your target audience is women you can sell anything based on ideas alone.

>>16887898
This, everyone knows you can't be both

>struggle for 5 hours to write anything
>now in the zone, words flowing, feel like you can write any scene you want
>have to be asleep in 30 minutes because work tomorrow
>won't have time for a few days, today is your only day you can write

>>16887900
But those books have both bad ideas AND bad writing
marketable != good

>>16887768
>>16887737
>>16887719

Here the original version by Bergson, which I dug up for you poor souls out of charity:

"Thus each of us has his own way of loving and hating ; and this love or this hatred reflects his whole personality. Language, however, denotes these states by the same words in every case : so that it has been able to fix only the objective and impersonal aspect of love, hate, and the thousand emotions which stir the soul. We estimate the talent of a novelist by the power with which he lifts out of the common domain, to which language had thus brought them down, feelings and ideas to which he strives to restore, by adding detail to detail, their original and living individuality."

>>16887950
Just quit your jobs and live the NEET life bro
I can spend weeks and weeks sitting at my desk failing to write anything

>>16885831
Because I'm too smart and I know stuff nobody else in the world knows, so I'm obligated to write it down.

273 posts.
Less than a dozen stories.
Yup, this is a place for "writers".

>>16888001
>he think I'll post my stories for you retards to read
Like I give a fuck about your opinion, lmao.

>>16888001
Why would I post my writing here? Go to a critique thread if you want to read and critique.

>>16888013

You don't have any stories to post. Quit lying to yourself.
Writers write.

What's even the point?
I will never make it.

>>16888209
Make it to what?

>>16888213
Write for a living, publish books.

>>16888217
Maybe you don't have your priorities straight if you only consider writing if you make it.

How detailed is too detailed for a rape scene?

>>16888001
why aren't you posting your story

>>16888397
Depends on the market. If mainstream, you shouldn't even be depicting it, just referencing it. If self-publishing, it's best to stick to the bare minimum and imply most of what's going on. If it's a web novel or something like that, you have more freedom, but remember that it will always be attached to your name, so do so under a solo pen name. If writing erotica, go ham.

>>16888397
>a rape scene
instant drop

Interesting article I read on Ishiguro writing Remains of the Day. Turns out he produced the first draft in a four-week frenzy.

"Kazuo Ishiguro: how I wrote The Remains of the Day in four weeks" https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/dec/06/kazuo-ishiguro-the-remains-of-the-day-guardian-book-club

Another piece of evidence that getting a bad first draft out is the hurdle most writers don't overcome - I try to edit as I go and never finish anything.

>>16888411

I posted three in this thread. They're trash, but at least I've written stuff.

>>16887962
But those women didn't read those books because the books were marketable. And they didn't read it for the prose. They read those well-marketed, badly-written books for the idea, and only the idea (regardless of whether you think the idea was bad). Which is, I believe, the original point of this discussion. An idea doesn't need to be written well in order to succeed.

>>16888621
I have literally finished first drafts in 3 days before. They need to be rewritten almost from scratch, and that expands their wordcount about 50% as things get fleshed out, but the basic story is there. Getting the story out is the most important thing, because once it's finished, working with it and changing things is way easier.

>"whiskey is writers fuel"
>start drinking whiskey
>it makes me sleepy
>get no writing done

Am I drinking the wrong sort?
pic related

>>16888209
If you're not writing primarily for the joy of writing itself you'll never make it. And if you are, you've already made it.

>>16888451
This but a lot more complicated. Depends on a bunch of things - are you a woman? is it from the point of view of a woman? what's the point of the scene? does it need to be depicted at all? are you writing YA? are you writing for middle aged women? are you writing for pseuds? are you writing for autistic young men that just want to jack off to rape porn? Think about it and use your best judgement.

>>16888899
>are you writing for autistic young men that just want to jack off to rape porn?
Where is this elusive market? I have plenty of material for them.

>>16888621
Also goes to show the amount of time spent on something doesn't immediately equate to its quality. IIRC Anthony Burgess eked out A Clockwork Orange in just two weeks. Goes to show that one book you've been pouring yourself into for the past few years probably isn't getting any better

>>16888954
Is it called pornhub?

>>16888962
Yeah, I thought that too. Pushkin did a lot in a short period of time as well. I'm increasingly convinced that the real quality emerges over the editing process.

>>16888962
>>16889026
>tfw I wrote only 2282 words for my book in last 2 weeks
bros...

>tfw wrote almost 30,000 words in 5 days
Just like, put the words on the page bro

>>16889190
it's so easy why wouldn't you?

>>16889148
2282 more than me. I've been revising a short story since for some reason I feel having a couple of published pieces would stand me in better stead for my eventual novel

>>16889190
How? Literally how?

>I wrote X words!
yeah, but how many of them were good words?

>>16889276
Not him, but just keep writing. Get inspired and tell yourself a really good story from beginning to end.

>>16889333
Probably not many, but it only takes a rewrite or an editing pass to turn things from bad to good.

>>16882283
Club foot. See Byron and Goebbels
t. Member of the club foot club

>>16885711
let us know how they do kami

Guys I want to write a novel about women getting kidnapped and raped and it's very detailed, but I want to know if there's any way they can trace the novel back to my identity? I have some normal books and I don't want my career ruined if people find out I wrote rape stories

>>16885013
Means you've done good.

>>16886379
Romance between birds flying and seeking grubs.

>>16887279
Kim Stanley Robinson said it's bullshit advice that fucks with new writers and you should ignore it.

>>16888217
Focus on writing a book that you think is respectable and enjoy writing. Your aim is wrong.

>>16888865
Yeah, go lighter. Amaretto.

>>16888397
It's not about detail, it's about tone.

>>16888865
I follow "write drunk, edit sober"
For me, it's usually rum. The trick is to get a glass of it and sip it instead of taking shots. It lasts me an hour before I get too smiley and go fap to anime girls.
And post on /lit/ because I just drank and wrote coincidentally.

https://www.amazon.com/F.-Gardner/e/B08KFQR689

Interested to hear anyone's feedback on my books. There's previews of the first few chapters on here. I seem to be getting more feedback today, probably because I did a Black Friday Deal. Thanks again everybody for all the suggestions/feedback.

>>16890642
Sorry bro I only read paperback because I'm a troglodyte.
Maybe I'd listen to an audiobook version.

But anyway, did you make much money out of these? Do you think your picture impacted sales one way or the other?

>>16891007
Paperback and audiobooks are in the works. As for my sales, I'm focusing more so on exposure at this point, since they've only been out for a little while.
I've had around 5 thousand downloads, but under 1 thousand of them have been from sales (as opposed to the free giveaways Amazon allows me to do.) I normally have them priced at $2.99, so I might readjust prices.

>>16891007
Oh, I just realized I forgot to answer your question about my picture. Sorry about that. Anyway, yeah it seemed to help a bit. I noticed an increase in sales/downloads once I added it.
Here's the other picture I was contemplating using. It's an old pic of me as Sonic.