/lit/ - Literature

>>16835579
I can understand one man being so wrong but what I can't wrap my head around is so many people thinking he's right

Filtered

>>16835579
>You will not have any doubt that psychological time is a mental disease if you look at its collective manifestations. They occur, for example, in the form of ideologies such as communism, national socialism or any nationalism, or rigid religious belief systems, which operate under the implicit assumption that the highest good lies in the future and that therefore the end justifies the means. The end is an idea, a point in the mind-projected future, when salvation in whatever form happiness, fulfillment, equality, liberation, and so on — will be attained. Not infrequently, the means of getting there are the enslavement, torture, and murder of people in the present.

>>16835579
If you aren’t even going to bother trying to read him stop spamming this place with the same post every other day.

>>16835579
haven't read him, but how is he wrong?
from what I understand he just describes a state of humanity in a certain limit to infinity. which is unreachable in practice as far as we know, but true.

>>16835579
hey this isn't the bizarro thread

show us ur dick

>>16835579
Didn't account for genetics

>>16835579
Idk its staggering but thw communist manifest is one of the strongest cases for capitalism ever made the audiobook is like less than 2 hours give it a listen and laugh your ass off at their 75 iq deity

>>16835627
>IF YOU READ HIM YOU WOULD AGREE WITH HIM 100% LIKE ME AND ALL THE OTHER INTELLECTUALS
Why are Marxists like this?

>Das Capital isn’t the greatest critique and description of the mechanics of Capitalism ever

yikes

>>16835676
>critique

Funny because he makes it sound so appealing

>>16835579
Because he was just trying to shitpost Ricardo and Saint-Simon at the same time. He was only concerned with living a bergouis existence and impressing his friends otherwise.

>>16835676
>>Das Capital isn’t the greatest critique and description of the mechanics of 19th century British Capitalism, and nothing else, ever
ftfy

>>16835579
Not as off as Plato.

>>16835653
?????
>The Jewish nigger Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation. The chap would sooner throw money down the drain than lend it to a ‘friend’, even though his interest and capital were guaranteed. In this he bases himself on the view that he ought to live the life of a Jewish baron, or Jew created a baron (no doubt by the countess). Just imagine! This fellow, knowing about the American affair, etc., and hence about the state of crisis I’m in, had the insolence to ask me whether I would be willing to hand over one of my daughters to la Hatzfeldt as a ‘companion’, and whether he himself should secure Gerstenberg’s (!) patronage for me! The fellow has wasted my time and, what is more, the dolt opined that, since I was not engaged upon any ‘business’ just now, but merely upon a ‘theoretical work’, I might just as well kill time with him! In order to keep up certain dehors vis-à-vis the fellow, my wife had to put in pawn everything that wasn’t actually nailed or bolted down!

>>16835666
because they're pseuds

>>16835666
They're all larpers. You think young 20 year olds these days have the concentration to read non-fiction? Guarantee 90% wouldn't be able to read a chapter without using their phone. They just spam what they see on reddit.

>>16835653
Didn't account for man's nature of evil either.
>oopsie!

>>16835725
Does it bother you that Marx and Engels both excoriated Utopian Socialists?

>>16835939
Odd since he was an extreme asshole to his family and even his friends.

>>16835666
Marx is uniquely misread by his critics. Maybe 90% of all criticism I’ve seen on here are fully answered in just the first chapter of Capital.

There are problems in marx, and critiques that are interesting to talk about, it’s just that everybody who makes posts like OP seem to think that having a slow worker and a fast worker both make a product that sells for the same amount of money disproves “the labour theory of value”.

>>16836014
How can anyone prove or disprove labor value when Marx does not even bother to justify it in anyway?

>>16835579
I used to love Marxism. Even voted for Sanders for communist president in the democratic primaries. I knew democracy was the only true path to a communist utopia. Like Marx said:

>Killing people and destroying property solves nothing. Democracy is the only road to socialism.

Used to read Marx daily. I must have scrolled through brainyquote.com reading ALL his quotes. Oh, I don't know what "human labor in the abstract" means WHO THE FUCK CARES. I don't know what "commodity production" means? Fuck off, you purists. Revolution isn't made by armchair theorists like you, sitting around all smug in your mom's basement nickpicking every little detail anyone gets wrong. It's made by DEMOCRACY when the PEOPLE come together and realize they can create something BETTER. A society created in our own image, THAT's what Marx was really fighting for. Assholes.

I started going down the wrong path. I started getting real deep into Marx, far down the rabbit hole. I found some works written by Marx, the really dark stuff. I started getting into his Theory of White Genocide. Quoted:

The White Man is dead labor, which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor he sucks.

I realized that the white man must be destroyed if we were to create a communist utopia. At that point I realized it was too great a cost to humanity, and realized my own path down insanity.

Started reading Mises, Hayek, Rothbard. The good guys. Learned about the sanctity of property. Learned about how to DEBUNK the labor theory of value with the mudpie argument. But most important of all, I learned about INDIVIDUALISM and how Capitalism is really the best system for that.

I was like "Holy shit. When you get a job, you actually AGREED to sell your labor to him. Wild". Marx's arguments just fell apart.

But the nail in the coffin, for Marx? He forgot about human nature.

>>16835627
COPE

>>16836037
Was your copy missing the first 4 chapters?

>>16836049
Yup, there will never be a utopia or anything close because people who want to be in charge will always be scum. It's happened all throughout history and it will always be like that.

>>16835953
Not really. I can *excoriate* scientific socialism just the same now.
It’s a dream till it’s done, or we’re done

>>16836066
He doesn't justify it. He makes assertions and axiomatic statements.

>>16836081
>>16836072
just kill yourself already

>>16835608
>Marx and Engels spend their entire career trying to tell people that communism is not utopian, but rather just another phase in the continual process of human self-realization and emancipation through universal recognition
>people still think socialism means utopianism 150 years later

>>16836095
No no. I love life. It’s you cappies and tradcaths that hate this world. Shuffle alone now.

>>16836081
But you're not Marx.

>>16836114
If you loved this world and life, you wouldn't try to change it.

>>16836101
Even marxists view socialism as a utopian society where all their problems go away. It’s a sad world out there

how can one man singlehandedly fuck up so much so late after his death?

>>16836120
myth of the given bullshit. Life is only what we make of it. The particular arrangement that life is in right now is not life itself, it's just one arrangement of it.

>>16836114
aah yes you TOTALLY love life, thats why you are so hell bent on destroying the lives of everyone around you so you can try to escape it and live out an unobtainable fantasy. its funny how you try so hard to act self assured but it turns out you've already showed everyone all your cards in your demented quest for validation so everyone knows what kind of person you really are and no one will ever buy it lmao

>>16836147
you are so cucked by the rich that you think trying to improve anyone's life or challenge the authority of your beloved aristocrat masters amounts to the apocalypse. What a good dog you are

>>16835608
You know I have always thought Tolle was a grifter but this quote here I have to say is spot on. This muh future humanity meme is really responsible for so much retardation in the world but what are you going to do about it? I don’t think pointing it out is going to do anything to stop that train

>>16836223
aah yes anyone who doesn't submit to literally the single worst, least viable political beliefs in the history of humanity is automatically against "improving peoples lives"

holy fuck I hope this is bait, if not get fucking help and re examine the type of trash that pours out of your mind and onto your keyboard. how could you unironically post something THIS stupid? how??

>>16836101
>continual process of human self-realization
LOL

>>16836255
yup, that's what climbing out of the cave is.

>>16836070
>Yup, there will never be a utopia or anything close because people who want to be in charge will always be scum. It's happened all throughout history and it will always be like that.
Science denying cringe
Once we get ethical, hedonist AI going it can overthrow the imperfect human elites and implement perfected utopia of maximizing pleasure via technocracy
And once we causally understand the entirety of human behavior, and mathematize it, we can neurologically eliminate out all suffering, hate and abuse of power; there's nothing not deterministic about your brain anon, just chemicals

I can elaborate even further

>>16836014
This

>>16836302
I can't tell if you're a pseud who actually believes that this is what people desire, or, if you're a reactionary trying to parody this type of idiot, telling us what it is about technology that spooks you

>>16836310
>I can't tell if you're a pseud who actually believes that this is what people desire
Talk to any person who rejected religion
We have no meanimg or purpose and will all die and rot under the soil
We might as well say fuck it and have fun with our time here

>>16836310
>or, if you're a reactionary trying to parody this type of idiot, telling us what it is about technology that spooks you
These people are just too afraid of the unknown, they are inert and complacent in their shitty, unpleasant lives

>>16836302
>And once we causally understand the entirety of human behavior, and mathematize it, we can neurologically eliminate out all suffering, hate and abuse of power; there's nothing not deterministic about your brain anon, just chemicals
To elaborate on the ethics and practical applications for positive operant conditioning propaganda on the population of this mathematics of human behavior, check out "Keith Raniere" who makes thesii about this stuff

>>16836116
Thankfully. Beards look so scratchy and uncomfortable.

>16836120
>laugh out loud
>>16836146

>16836147
Pic for you
>>16836254
You have zero idea of what you are talking about. People controlling their own lives and living in peace instead of debts to an authoritarian society of bankers and torturers, is somehow bad to you. “It’s unattainable!” Only because of shoe polish tongues like you. You’re an idiot.

>>16836430
>You have zero idea of what you are talking about. People controlling their own lives and living in peace instead of debts to an authoritarian society of bankers and torturers, is somehow bad to you. “It’s unattainable!” Only because of shoe polish tongues like you. You’re an idiot.
It's unnatainable because of human neurobiology possibilitating and facilitating abuse of power and the capacity for hate and irrational paths to happiness, however, once we mold the human mind using cybernetics, AI and VR + AR chambers we will optimize and perfectly moralize the human experience

As for our immediate reality, we should educate, and if that doesn't work, execute ignorant midwits who refuse to abandon insane beliefs like christcuckerg, which would do loads to reduce the amount of irrationality and suffering in the world

>>16835579
>"Yeah, so, working kids in over crowded, poorly ventilated, swelteringly hot factories for 16 hours a day is bad"
>MaRx WaS wRoNg AbOuT EvErYtHiNg
Read Marx. He was right about a great many things.

>>16836450
You just pointed out why Marx, while not wrong per se is redundant

His beliefs are wildly outdated, they do not capture the true problem of neoliberal capitalist society, too much tolerance of ideology leads to ignorant, irrational value worshippers to commit atrocities for some greater purpose they made up as an excuse to massacre those who differ from them

>>16836446
>I smoke now, so I can’t quit now. My brain can’t change!
Weak excuses
>cybernetics
Landfag? (Are you even that first guy?)

>>16835692
Not sure how dehumanization could be appealing to anyone

>>16836476
what the fuck do you think bdsm is

>>16836473
>>I smoke now, so I can’t quit now. My brain can’t change!
>Weak excuses
What do you mean by this?
I don't smoke
The brain can change but it's deterministic, no choice involved
>Landfag?
What is this term even?

>>16835579
protocols and talmud

>>16836496
Nick Land.

>>16836492
a voluntary sexual practice, disgusting yes but that's nothing compared to being deprived of your humanity

>>16836459
I actually found his observation that technological advancement itself is the enemy of the workers to be extremely relevant. It makes sense, all technological advancements are designed to make labor more efficient and lessen the value of labor by making it more abundant. This is wonderful for producing an abundance of cheap throw-away products or even food. It sucks for creating any kind of real middle class.

Take Oren Cass' work for example. Over the past 40 years, there has been the most concentrated technological progress in human history. Yet, the median full time worker is WORSE off because of it. This will absolutely lead to a dystopian hellscape where only those who own capital can make money while those who have nothing but their labor to sell will be continually pressured to sell it for cheaper and cheaper, thus curtailing most pathways to social mobility. Marx's critiques were extremely accurate and get at the core of the natural forces acting upon capital and the channels it will naturally tend toward.

>>16836506
Ah; i see, he does condemn democracy and preach acceleration
In that sense he is based despite being a mentally insane and disturbed value worshipper, thinking life has meaning and value without evidence, but to bring about the radical change that destroys psychopath human elites and brings about hedon increasing AI, we need to uproot society fast

>>16836430
>>16836223
not even anti-commie,

but feom a meta standpoint doesnt this all kind of predicate on what you believe is right and good is? and it would have to be a rather monolithic conception if so. since one could argue, given specific philosophical takes, that the freedom to particapate abd create capital and capital societies is good. but of courseothers would disagree that absolute or near freedom is good and it is a balance of control. you could say the market and state are parasitical, but that eould be a perpectual thing that depends on origin, if origin matters, what is good, can what is good be changed (thinkendorphine box future comic) and if an ideal is more important than pleasure or vice versa (what it means to love life, as ideals are not necissarily seperate).


idk, i feel having a solid stance like this is kind of hard to justify when there are so many philosophical particulars that can and need to be debated.

>>16836543
>thinking life has meaning without evidence
You need to go back.