/lit/ - Literature

>>16757699
really?You think so? mmm...food for thought

>>16757735
You're an interesting guy. Have a thought with? A drink of each others transparent outpourings? That is their purity.

>>16757735
You can be as facetious as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he was right. What's your favorite recently published book?

>>16757738
Im quite aware of the river delay, I have arranged the quarrel insofar the bridge in front its made in time
>>16757755
None

>>16757755
Not the anon you're replying to, but Heidegger said it was possible Greece was a revelation only to occur once, and forever something different to occur in respect to something being the same as those great Greek achievements. And as result, our great effort in respect to the Greeks will be not so much as try to recreate them (as much as we should imitate them, lest there be no purpose), but preserve their greatness and knowledge forever, for countless generations to thrive and not fall into that fear of Schopenhauer's. Though undoubtedly he was exaggerating a bit, we cannot deny that our life as Westerners so definitely dies or lives with what is left of Greece-- at least up until the present age.

>read Schopenhauer
>he says to read the Greeks
>read the Greeks
>Plato and Proclus say if you're too stupid for this to go study geometry and physical science first

>>16757699
>quote-posting
zzzzzz

>>16757798
Ah, good man with the good discussion of his favourite river god. Who knows what they say, the bridge that builds is built no less.

>>16757804
That might very well be the case, but I have noticed a pattern that every time a culture tries to imitate and absorb the Greek culture, it results in great cultural achievements. The obvious example is Goethe and Weimar classicism in 18th century, there is also the Persian discovery of them in middle ages (which resulted in amazing sufi poetry, as well as very fruitful scientific and mathematical advances) and there is also the renaissance. If it is the case that every time that the Greeks are appropriated they result great art, then perhaps this is a sign that they were doing something right, and perhaps that is exactly what art needs to flourish again.

>>16757827
As much as I know enough to get by the meaning of Plato's/Pythagoras'/Greeks in general focus on science and geometry, I don't think we'll ever know exactly what they saw in it. Yes we can say and see they saw religious and symbolic meaningfulness in it, and even be somewhat precise about that, but we don't really. And a greater essence could be hidden behind their esotericism which we have to peer behind to understand so much else of, but it's more likely we just don't get it esoteric or not, and both.

>>16757827
They were referring to Euclidean geometry. Most high schools make students go through it, but you haven't done it already, it's good practice to get used to proofs. It won't take that long though.

>>16757847
I'm somewhat with the tone of Heidegger that cultures can't just "reproduce" things essential to other cultures, though you're right that the Greeks likely posses the highest ideal to artistic creation(it is creation, not re-creation, not as if it is the Greeks lifting Goethe out of darkness singlehandedly)-- And continuing my point, the tone that we've someone exhausted or rather come to an end of our relation to the Greeks in the present age, perhaps the next they will be used for inspiration and education again, but what is left is a final meaningfulness of the Greeks as the start to the confrontation with modernity and nihilism. You know, the whole thing about the West only being saved through a monologue, which can be nothing other than essentially a dialogue with itself. I think Heidegger says this explicitly in his Die Spiegel, that the West wont be saved through adopting some foreign religion of Taoism or such. Anyhow I've lost my tangent.

As it is always said there are no such things as translation as being pure translucence, but rather being made new again for every age and time (perhaps with an indeterminable sameness for nothing other than that constant difference of interpretation?)-- The Greeks are made the own of whoever has them. If we lose them we truly lose the West not because of an abstract of what works, but their essentially to our current.

>>16757872
>tfw read Euclid
>learning basic mathematics
>don't understand how the proofs are proofs but understand they work
Why am I so dumb at mathematics.

>>16757699
Anyone recommend some ancient classes that a zoomer can read? I've tried but they are too hard for me.

>>16757908
I think you might be underestimating how much we have lost them already. Though we live supposedly in an age of progress, cultural literacy is quite low. Places like /lit/ being anomalies, very few people actually bother with reading the Greeks, or reading anything at all, or at any rate, anything good. It is as though we are literate but illiterate, or we are "cultured" but quite barbaric. If we lose our cultural hold of those ideas embodied in the Greeks (as I believe we already have, or if not, we are very close), then the grounds will be ripe for a new rediscovery, perhaps a new regeneration. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic.

>>16757827
yes read Pythagoras and Euclid first
also do Aristotle before Proclus
but really you shouldn't be too stupid for Proclus - his elements of theology propositions are quite clear and easy to grasp if you think about each of them for more than 30 seconds

>>16757915
Try the Theban trilogy by Sophocles, very easy and simultaneously one of the greatest works of Greek literature. Also see >>16757477


But if you're more new to reading in general then mix the Greeks, or prior to starting with them, read whatever modern works that aren't too difficult that you're interested. Try Sherlock Holmes, see also >>16753992

>>16757912
In Plato's time there was no formalized logic, so the best they had was geometry. I think it would be better now to just learn symbolic logic. It's much more focused on the proofs themselves and their construction. Even mathematicians now use formal logic.

>>16757699
>schopenhauer enjoyed reading and feeling ennobled, purified, refreshed
I thought he just wanted to die. Have /lit/ lied to me?

>>16757970
That rediscovery I believe will only come about through sore times in the time of nihilism. But yeah I'm completely with you that on large and in culture we've utterly deteriorated, but it's still the same culture, we still have the same history we remember and many still good people; just no doubt on mass the world has fallen into nihilism and degeneracy.

>>16757994
Okay, thanks anon. I'll look into it.

>>16758009
I believed we have already fallen to the "sore times of nihilism", but it seems you still see some good in our culture. If that's the case, then I'm happy for you, but I still wonder how you believe our culture is the same as that of the old Europeans or the Greeks. It seems to me there was a sort of "restart" in 20th century after the war, in which a new culture was made with entirely new values and modes of life. If the war hadn't happened, I doubt Europeans would be living in the same way as we do today.

>>16758004
most of /lit/ hasn't actually read the people they shitpost about

>>16758055
Based anon. Tired of the disrespect the genius that is Schopenhauer receives
>>16757699
I wish to be a tenth of the man that he was

>>16757983
>read Pythagoras
You can't.

“One should not study contemporaries and competitors, but the great men of antiquity, whose works have, for centuries, received equal homage and consideration. Indeed, a man of really superior endowments will feel the necessity of this, and it is just this need for an intercourse with great predecessors, which is the sign of a higher talent. Let us study Molière, let us study Shakspeare, but above all things, the old Greeks, and always the Greeks.”

“For highly endowed natures,” remarked I, “the study of the authors of antiquity may be perfectly invaluable; but, in general, it appears to have little influence upon personal character. If this were the case, all philologists and theologians would be the most excellent of men. But this is by no means the case; and such connoisseurs of the ancient Greek and Latin authors are able people or pitiful creatures, according to the good or bad qualities which God has given them, or which they have inherited from their father and mother.”

“There is nothing to be said against that,” returned Goethe; “but it must not, therefore, be said, that the study of the authors of antiquity is entirely without effect upon the formation of character. A worthless man will always remain worthless, and a little mind will not, by daily intercourse with the great minds of antiquity, become one inch greater. But a noble man, in whose soul God has placed the capability for future greatness of character, and elevation of mind, will, by a knowledge of, and familiar intercourse with, the elevated natures of ancient Greeks and Romans, every day make a visible approximation to similar greatness.”

>>16758718
Based Goetheposter

>>16758718
>if God gave you a little mind you will remain a fool and suffer for eternity
Jeez...

>>16758735
>>16758726
Conversations of Goethe with Eckermann feels like reading /lit/ posts by the big boys.

>>16758735
Yes.

Should I learn greek bros?
Also, should I be trying to focus ancient or koine from the start or would I benefit by learning modern greek first?

>>16758718
I hate reading this shit because the geniuses themselves are telling me I will always be a brainlet.

>>16757699
Amazing how something written a century and half ago could be so prophetic and accurate depiction of our own times.

>>16758718
Based, no matter how many classics you read you will always be filtered by your own cowardice and autism.

>>16759063
>Should I learn greek bros?
Why? Do you want to impress people with your smarts? All noteworthy stuff was already translated

>>16757699
Nothing filters the plebeians faster than declension tables to be memorized. Why did we stop teaching the classical languages?

>>16757699
When the first gate he had made her enter,
He stripped and took away the great crown on her head.
"Why, o gatekeeper, didst thou take the great crown on my head?"
"Enter, my lady, thus are the rules of the Mistress of the Underworld."
When the second gate he had made her enter,
He stripped and took away the pendants on her ears.
"Why, O gatekeeper, didst thou take the pendants on my ears?"
"Enter, my lady, thus are the rules of the Mistress of the Underworld."
When the third gate he had made her enter,
He stripped and took away the chains round her neck.
"Why, O gatekeeper, didst thou take the chains round my neck?"
"Enter, my lady, thus are the rules of the Mistress of the Underworld."
When the fourth gate he had made her enter,
He stripped and took away the ornaments on her breast.
"Why, O gatekeeper, didst thou take the ornaments on my breast?"
"Enter, my lady, thus are the rules of the Mistress of the Underworld."
When the fifth gate he had made her enter,
He stripped and took away the girdle of birthstones on her hips.
"Why, O gatekeeper, didst thou take the girdle of birthstones on my hips?"
"Enter, my lady, thus are the rules of the Mistress of the Underworld."
When the sixth gate he had made her enter,
He stripped and took away the clasps round her hands and feet.
"Why, O gatekeeper, didst thou take the clasps round my hands and feet?"
"Enter, my lady, thus are the rules of the Mistress of the Underworld."
When the seventh gate he had made her enter,
He stripped and took away the breechcloth round her body.
"Why, O gatekeeper, didst thou take the breechcloth round my body?"
"Enter, my lady, thus are the rules of the Mistress of the Underworld."

>>16758051
>If the war hadn't happened, I doubt Europeans would be living in the same way as we do today.
How do you think they'd be living?

>>16757827
>reading Proclus
ngmi