/lit/ - Literature

Auster's 'Man in the Dark' deals with similar themes, although I think by the end of the novel they're at the very least downplayed

>>1672500

Thanks for that. Yes, The New York Trilogy is the only Auster work I've read so far and I will definitely be delving further into his work as I know he deals primarily with identity and maye memory too, if I've heard correctly.

Actually that's a good point, any works dealing with memory would also be greatly appreciated as I think the subject ties in nicely to identity.

Life is Elsewhere by Milan Kundera
Sputnik Sweetheart by Haruki Murakami

>>1672523

Thanks. I read Sputnik Sweetheart a few years ago. I'm afraid I can't remember much about it other than a few details and the fact that I was quite confused at the end. I'd be grateful if you could outline a few details of that novel that are relevant to the topic of identity here.

And I'll look into Life is Elsewhere by Milan Kundera. Thanks.

bump

Bump

René Magritte is a fucking boss. Are you me OP?

>>1672621

I'm not really sure who I am, that's why I made this thread...

>>1672639

You're Anonymous. Duh.

>>1672641

That's one aspect, yes.

Pale Fire

>>1672674

Interesting, thanks. I admit, I haven't read that yet.

Any thoughts on the subject of identity or memory are also encouraged, guys.

PKD, A Scanner Darkly
+ other PKD stuff

>>1672691

Yes, I've read that, along with a lot of his other works. I'm definitely a fan, although I feel identity is a bit of a sideline topic for him in most cases, compared to Paul Auster where it is an inescapable question.

bump

The man without qualities

>>1672735

I first heard of that book just a week or so ago and added it to my reading list along with The Book of Disquiet by Fernando Pessoa. Pessoa is absolutely fascinating as a person, just check out his wiki page for a glimpse at what I mean. It like he split himself into a million autonomous pieces...

May not be what you're asking for, but I'm gonna go ahead and suggest "Gödel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter. It's on the subject of consciousness and intelligence.

>>1672808

Thanks, that too is on my reading list. I'm actually about half way through this article on it that I decided to read to get a taste for it.

http://mathdl.maa.org/images/upload_library/22/Polya/00494925.di020701.02p0020k.pdf

bump

Identity? Anyone?

consciousness is now the realm of neuroscience

>>1673642

Okay, I won't argue, I just want to gather information, essays, novels, whatever, on the theme of identity and memory. If you can point me to a work or expand upon your comment I'd be grateful.

more auster, Invisible is good

Jean-Paul Sartre - La Nausee

I don't know if it's what you're looking for but both Hume and Locke write about (personal) identity.

David Hume - 'A Treatise on Human Nature'
John Locke - 'An Essay concerning Human Understanding'

Not sure if this is at all in your ball-park but if it is you might also want to look up Leibniz's Law

leibniz's law dohohohohoho hoho ho

one more thing while I remember, might also want to look up the buddhist concept of anatta or noself

>>1673675
wtf is wrong with you? are you high?

>>1673685
watch me slay this sacred cow of yours.

>>1673672
>>1673682

Thanks, bro. That's really helpful.

>>1673671

And that's another work that I really should have read by now. Thanks.

>>1673686
are you going to say something actually interesting or "lol leibniz" is your best argument?

>>1673694

she's too autistic to be constructive.

Which is a shame because she seems quite knowledgeable. she's said a few times she only visits this board for the tripfaggotry.

>>1673686
leibniz is dead, baby
leibniz is dead

>>1673694
dohohoho

and no, not here.

taking on Leibniz these days isn't exactly going to earn you a Doctorate

>>1673721
standard treatments of liar's paradox says otherwise

>>1673734
i have a book of essays on that actually but it just seems like a poor man's incompleteness theorem. Do you think it's worth spending any time on

>>1673737
sure.

>>1673737
>Do you think it's worth spending any time on
>On 4chan all day

It makes you sound like you think your time is valuable. I laughed.

>>1673721

Maybe not, but tackling his hair is a death-wish.

Oh, and I'm going to come out and suggest Submarine for OP - first thing to come to mind.

>>1673772

Submarine? Can you give me an author please?

>>1673770
I am the best

>>1673797

Ok, so it's a film, but I think it fits the bill, and this is the first line of the wikipedia summary...

> The film is set in Swansea, Wales, and is a portrait of Oliver Tate (Craig Roberts), who believes he is a cool literary genius but is in fact socially inept and unpopular.

Thus, all of /lit/ must see.

Consciousness is the culmination of our cognitive abilities to perceive, store and process information. Our sense of self is merely an added bonus of our evolved ability to predict the behavior of other individuals and understand the social relationships of others.

We merely turn this ability inward to create our own sense of self.

The more... ahem... colorful definitions of consciousness posited throughout history are based on largely illusory aspects of our minds.

Ayn Rand once foolishly said, "If what you claim to perceive does not exist, then consciousness is not what you possess." She was totally right, but she meant it the other way. Consciousness is not what we possess, if you think it is that which grants us free will or contains a metaphysical soul.

One very informative exercise is to learn a little bit about comparative neuroscience, where you look at brains that are simple, and gradually work your way up through to the most complex of brains.

If you know which parts of the brain do what, you begin to see a very fluid rise of consciousness, particularly when you begin comparing the cognitive abilities that match each brain.

There are a lot of books that want to portray a romantic view or incorporate magical elements into consciousness, but nothing is required beyond the more naturalistic explanations.

Honestly, I can't point to one work that lays it all down very well. To understand what gave rise to a sense of self requires reading up from several sources on evolutionary neuroscience, combined with a plethora of studies.

The whole field really requires a multidisciplinary approach. A little bit of psychology combined with some cognitive science, combined with neurobiology and anatomy of the brain.

You will always run into problems with definitions of consciousness, but the reality is, even if we feel like we have consciousness we are completely unable to sense any of the underlying mechanisms that generate it.

This makes understanding consciousness difficult, and investigation in the purely philosophical/intellectual/immaterial form, not very useful.

>>1673869
>>1673871
this guy here is right obv

The Catcher in the Rye by J. D. Salinger

>>1673874
Thanks, I couldn't figure it out by myself because I cannot understand what he wrote.
Thanks God your authority allows me to regard the comment as trustworthy.

>>1673874
He was doing alright until he forgot to mention how Personal Identity is of course a parcel of non-physical matter connected to the body and synchronised to the real world by the divine hand of God Almighty

Martin Heidegger: Identity & Difference

>>1673880
you are very welcome
>>1673886
very cute but sure we can add that on

>>1673886

Amen to that.

>>1673886

except that you can alter personal identity by altering brain matter

>>1673911
>mistaking the effect for the cause
No see what's actually happening is that God is altering the soul at the same time that happens

"The Case for Anonymous" in The April Reader

>>1673911
>Pineal gland
/thread

>>1673936

Well shit. You've convinced me. It is time to give my my sinful, baby-eating, atheistic ways. How do I go about repenting?

>>1673957

Say ten hail mary's before and after masturbation.

>>1673957
wonderful. start with this

A confession has to be part of your new life.

i cant believe someone could accuse ayn rand of being wrong