/lit/ - Literature

>>16733942
What is Progressivism? Never heard of it

>>16733942
My dad is conservative and very Kantian without even realizing it.

>>16733942
In progressivism? Perhaps Heidegger in regarding macro objects instead of micro ones.

>>16733942
Imputing a 1930s bourgeois liberal attempt to highjack american revolutionary working class thought to a dead german phenomenologist shitposter is pretty average for the contemporary dickhead.

>>16733942
>>16733969
This being said a counter thesis to progressivism would be anti progressive.

>>16733957
>Progressivism
It's a highly politicized term, but let me clarify what I mean: The idea that historical development of morality points towards the emancipation of humans. The endpoint being ultimate freedom. Ex. In ancient Greece they used to put women in cages, but today, because of the evolution of morality pointing towards liberation, that would be something unthinkable for most humans.

>>16733971
True but your style is really annoying and effeminate. Needs work bro

>>16733942
American Progressivism is the highest expression of conservatism. It imagines politics to consist of an election between Obama v. Romney every four years for the rest of eternity.

>>16733942
Guenon

>>16733980
Why do you think it has its roots in Hegel?

>>16733993
I believe he was the first one to philosophize about it, if I'm not mistaken. Hegel seems to be somewhat proto-marxian in my estimation.

>>16733942
The Nietzsche Wittgenstein Treaty Shakespeared the Hegel Schopenhauerian Landian Pseudo-Schellingist Neo-Kantian/Platonic Project (Capital Volume 6) Mussolini Marx Jigsaw

>>16734010
Marx was a former left-hegelian. Why haven't you read more before this?

>>16734019
I'm barely done with the Greeks, but I got curious and took a peek at Hegel's philosophy of history, hence this thread

>>16734027
I see, yeah German idealism is the next best thing to study after the greeks. Yeah I think his metaphysics are fucked and that mathematical logic and math in general developed by denying an idealist maths is indicative to me of it's lack of breadth (but not for that reason alone). Still it's an important area

>>16734027
If haven't studied Hegel's thesis, the counterarguments to it would be of no use to you.

>>16733993
It's a common misreading of the Phenomenology of Spirt to think that Hegel is stating that the establishment of a universal, liberal, and homogenous (although not necessarily democratic) state is the end point of history. All roads will eventually lead to a 19th century constitutional Monarchy, I guess. I'd say that this is much more Francis Fukuyama's argument than Hegel's though.

Accepting Hegel's Dialectical method, that is, his organic logic, means embracing the radical contingency inherent in any attempt to realize an idea. We conduct politics without any guarantee that our actions will achieve some predestined fully emancipated and rational future society. In fact, Hegel teaches us the opposite. That we're doomed to be frustrated in our struggles to bring a notion to realization. : (

>>16734038
Having a basic understanding of History validates Hegel's philosophy of History up to this point in history and my concern is to know if this is evidence in it self that Hegel was right about the "unfolding of history" towards the self-actualization of humanity, being: freedom and consciousness of the self.

On what ground does Guenon & Evola have to stand on to assert that History is cyclical and Traditionalism is true?

If you're a "Retvrn to Tradtion" kind of guy in this day and age and Hegel is right; History will look back at you with utter contempt.

>>16734075
It doesn't validate the dark ages nor how we've become less free every step since Hegel

>>16734080
Sexual deviants and degenerates have become more free than ever, likewise animals. What is your responds to this? What if you and I are both wrong and the Progressives and Liberals are right?

>>16734080
I'm not trying to provoke any hostility btw, sorry if I came across that way.

>>16734075
I think we should be careful here. You're right that examining this unfolding of history will lead us to the "self-actualization of humanity, being: freedom and consciousness of the self.", but that freedom was always already contained within history from its beginning.

It's through tracing history's dialectical movement that we can come to understand the Ideal Form, the persistent structure, which determines this unfolding in itself.

We're already at the point where we can fully understand this, we don't need to wait any longer or imagine a better situation in the future. Again, it's always already here.

>>16734096
Not taken that way at all, that's something you're aware of not me.

>>16734084
If sexual deviancy is progressive then this doesn't account for the rise of christianity prudishness. Even assuming christianity to be the antithesis for more degeneracy later, which we haven't come close to in regards to pagan days, it's an ad hoc formulation which doesn't explain why Christianity was the antithesis, it just looks back and says it is.

>>16733981
I keep my real deal anonymous otherwise youse poofs would be slobben me knob all day.

>>16734178
That was very lame.

>>16733980
Emancipation from what?

>>16734238
From the tyranny of the state

>>16733942
intellectualism is the left, and that’s not a compliment to them, it’s just a technical matter of fact. there has been no right for quite some time, (don’t listen to the socialist retards who say capitalism is the right) there are just a few reactionaries who went against the status quo and I would say Nietzsche was the biggest one.

Being a slave is actually being the master, so just stop being slaves lol

>>16733942
The esoteric right also came out of Hegel. The anti-hegel right of today broke off from the "cannon" at Descartes. Giambatista Vico daddies up on his ass.

>>16733942
Gonna have to dig deeper than -isms if you want to critique Hegel. A critique of Hegel is to be found within Hegel.

>>16734621
>I own epistemology and dialectics now
>You can only critique my work using my methods

DUHHH BINARY THOUGHT GOOD

>>16734652
shut up Derrida

>>16733942
I like Spengler and Vico's systems (they are very similar just on is Christian the other Nietzschian.) I wouldn't say they are counterarguments, but entirely different systems that more or less discard Hegel's linear causal argument in favor of relativistic systems limited within themselves. I'd read those two if you want a different system outside of Hegel's linear view of history, Evola's system if I want to be fair to it (and not say its completely useless) has to be limited to spiritual development which is grounded in the idea of Tradition. In general I like Spengler's system and due to how similar Vico is I like his reasoning which transfers it away from the Nietzsche nihilism and towards a Christian transcendence all the keeping the relativism Spengler takes up.

>>16733942
Literally Hegel himself.

>>16733980
>In ancient Greece they used to put women in cages, but today, because of the evolution of morality pointing towards liberation, that would be something unthinkable for most humans.
that's such a brainlet understanding of freedom and history

>>16734080
Hegel never denied things could go backward

>>16734486
not Hegel

>>16735394
So an anti-dialectic in ideas or culture can happen during a dialectic in linear time? Is there a macro dialectic of this or how are these accounted for?

>>16733942
Yes, both Evola and Spengler (for different reasons) could be seen as the counter.
Also read pic related.

Bump

>>16735387
It’s my understanding of morality and history, I never claimed it had anything to do with freedom but my understanding is that Hegel sees the end of history as the manifestation of ultimate freedom.

>>16733977
It would be Perennialism

>>16737500
>Perennialism
On what ground does Guenon & Evola have to stand on to assert that History is cyclical and Traditionalism is true?

If you're a "Retvrn to Tradtion" kind of guy in this day and age and Hegel is right; History will look back at you with utter contempt.

Does Traditionalists on this board think it’s conceivable to put women back into cages in the future? If not, the. Hegel must have been right, no?