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/lit/ - Literature


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16702307 No.16702307 [Reply] [Original]

do you like Japanese lit, /lit/?

>> No.16702316

yes desu ga

>> No.16702326

>>16702307
I watch anime if that counts. Coincidentally I watched an anime in which Snow Country was read by the characters but I forget the name of it

>> No.16702329

>>16702307
All of it that I've read so far. Some short stories from an Oxford collection and a pair of Yoko Ogawa books. A few short stories weren't that interesting to me, but I loved several. Aguri, the Peony Garden, Blowfish, etc.

>> No.16702337

>>16702307
The BBC shit in Almost transparent blue by Ryu Murakami was hilarious.

>> No.16702349

>>16702326
What was the anime called?

>> No.16702373

>>16702307
Yes. Soseki is the best. Akutagawa is underrated. Most modern lit is pretty bad, or at least the translations have gotten worse.
The only possible discussion in this place is around Mishima (see Pewdiepie, /pol/) and Dazai (see /r9k/ and memes).
>>16702326
No, it doesn't count.

>> No.16702380

>>16702307
I've been getting into it. These are the ones on my radar:
>Wagahai Neko de Aru (I am a Cat)- Natsume Soseki
>Chijin no Ai (Naomi)
>Yukiguni (Snow Country)
>Gogo no Eiko (A Sailor Who Fell From Grace With the Sea)
>Suna no Onna (The Woman in the Dunes)
>Kojinteki na Taiken (A Personal Matter)
>Sekai no Owari to Hardboiled Wonderland
(Hardboiled Wonderland and the End of the World)

>> No.16702385

>>16702307
i only read 3 japanese books
welcome to the nhk - 10/10 absolutely fantastic, don't believe its as shit as the anime, read it twice and it only happens with the absolute best books
no longer human - 8/10 written pretty hard, but great character study as well, last sentence hits like a brick
men without women 1/10 - dropped it, raelly boring stories, all men had multiple women and the two main motifs of both short stories i read before dropping it were about the dude being cucked and the entire story is just him thinking about it, shit book

>> No.16702398

>>16702349
i forget what it was called
i really want to rewatch it but i can't remember
such is the life of a brainlet
>>16702385
>welcome to the nhk
i thought that was a manga
is it really a novel?

>> No.16702405 [DELETED] 

test desu

>> No.16702413
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16702413

>>16702349
kowaku no toki

>> No.16702420

>>16702307
I read the tale of genji and it was fucking shit
i am still salty i wasted my time

>> No.16702443

>>16702398
>>welcome to the nhk
>i thought that was a manga
>is it really a novel?
yes and the novel is 1000% better than both because it is raw and unfiltered, way more darker and fucked up

>> No.16702455

I've decided to dive into Asian literature in general recently, because I knew next to nothing about it.

The vast majority of authors on my azn lit-list are women somehow.

>> No.16702460

>>16702380
All solid choices, but I am a cat is quite long and it's sort of a pretentious form of humor about their living circumstances (i.e. a satire) from a 120 years ago.
I'd pick Sanshiro or Soseki's best, Kokoro.
>>16702420
Hope it doesn't keep you from more recent writers. It would be like disregarding the entirety of English lit just because I hated Beowulf.
>>16702398
A brainlet would do well in googling simple queries on his own.

>> No.16702471

>>16702413
thank you, chad :)

>> No.16702473

>>16702307
yes, and this was a surprisingly difficult book

>> No.16702483

>>16702473
in what way? it's only about 40,000 words (although i just started reading, i'm like 9 pages in)

>> No.16702492
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16702492

>>16702471
>>16702413
>>16702349
WHAT THE FUCK ANON WHY WOULD YOU TRICK ME LIKE THIS??!?!?!?!?1

>> No.16702493

>>16702483
just that the characters and everything they do and feel is so layered and obfuscated, so it was difficult at times to know what was actually happening.
great book, though

>> No.16702495

>>16702307
that book is good af

>> No.16702500

>>16702473
How? It's a 150 pager that's beautifully written

>> No.16702523

>>16702460
>Kokoro
That one is the one that pushed me to look deeper into Japanese literature. I have it on my shelf right now and I am dying to get to it, but I was caught in the middle of school work which is keeping it out of my reach so far.

>> No.16702548
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16702548

ofc. Personally I love murakami.
no, not that faggot ass murakami. I meant the REAL Murakami

>> No.16702560

Since the beginning of COVID I've been studying japanese for several hours everyday and I can speak it now pretty much. A few more months and I'll be fluent.

>> No.16702565

>>16702560
what's the best German to Japanese translation of the Critique of Pure Reason?

>> No.16702654

>>16702413
Thats a mean trick anon. Pls be nice

>> No.16702734

>>16702455
drop the list pls

>> No.16702746

No, it is a standard and unimpressive national literature that only weebs give much of a shit about.

>> No.16702779

Yes, I'm reading a collection of short stories written by Akutagawa and it's so fucking good. He wrote Rashomon when he was 23yo, this is amazing.
Why were people laughing and getting mad at the Buddhist monk in The Nose after he got it fixed?

>> No.16703040

>>16702746
>unimpressive national literature
what does that mean?

>> No.16703125
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16703125

I think it's a language barrier but I've noticed that a lot of the times. Everytime I read a japanese /lit/ there's always some philosophical mumble jumble that doesn't fit the context while in the book. Like MC could be dying and a friend of him suddenly starts talking to him about how life is but a fleeting feather blah blah blah.
pic unrelated.

>> No.16703139

>>16703125
>Like MC could be dying and a friend of him suddenly starts talking to him about how life is but a fleeting feather blah blah blah.
Name 5 books that aren't manga or LNs that fit this description.

>> No.16703158

>>16703139
Any of fucking murakami books. Both Ryo and Haruki and No Longer Human. I'll be honest I haven't read many japanese /lit/ books but if I start reading soseki and he pulls that shit ill rub it all over your face.

>> No.16703176

>>16703158
Well, try to quote the exact passage and not a vague reference.
And if you were thinking of Ryu Murakami, it might be from Almost Transparent Blue, which I don't think it translates that well.

>> No.16703179

>>16703158
No Longer Human is amazing!

>> No.16703184

>>16703176
I'm not quoting anything directly bruv. I'm just saying there's always some philosophical mumble jumble with no context. it could just be the language barrier.

>> No.16703186

Naomi is a BANGER

>> No.16703225

>>16703186
Naomi is the ultimate blackpill on women
women cannot be trusted

>> No.16703251

I have a couple Shinchou Bunko classics that I will read soon, in the meantime I'm going through some contemporary essays which is so far really helpful with my Japanese. I'd like to return to Soseki eventually since he's considered the essential author, but I was a but I have a bad memory of reading Kokoro in translation many years ago and posting my interpretation of it online only to get relentlessly shat upon, and it has soured my enthusiasm to go back to it since.

>> No.16703322

>>16702548
any good recs? i want more of his work but more creepy less LOL MURDER FUN

>> No.16703748

>>16702746
Filtered

>> No.16703774

>>16702560
Congratulations; I wish I had the patience for it.

>> No.16703781

>>16703251
The translation I own is from a Spanish speaking Japanese woman who also wrote a book to teach Spanish speakers Japanese. Would you say I'm in good hands or am I screwed too?

>> No.16704039

>>16703186
>>16703225
Naomi by Tanizaki is one of the greatest novels ever written

It isn't a blackpill on women as much as it is a cautionary tale on men's egos, women from bad families, and getting cucked, and men getting dominated by their lust for women

There's a lot of stuff going on in that novel

>> No.16704527

I've read:
>Murakami
I've read most of his stuff and he's wonderful for what it is-- fluffy and lazy reading on rainy Sunday afternoons. You will lose your mind if you read too much of it at once though
>must read: Wind-up Bird Chronicle (anyone who claims otherwise is contrarian), some short stories (NYT has some I think? find the one about a woman's insomnia, very concise and as good as Raymond Chandler)

>Soseki
Only book of his I've read; it's good, you understand how British literature influences him as well.

>Dazai
I enjoyed Setting Sun and Schoolgirl as much as No Longer Human. He's of a later generation and my impression is that he is the Japanese Beckett (who I haven't read). Very learned and has the best psychology of his characters, like Dostoevsky in this manner.

>Welcome to the NHK
A self aware Murakami and Dazai with "entertainment" value; as in references to Freud and pop culture. Fun as well, when you're in the mood for the aforementioned but want to try something else.

Yes I'm an neophyte but since these are the most popular authors I thought I'd chip in. As I whole I consider the novel to be a western import to Japanese literature in the late Edo period. So I read it for breadth as well as developing writing style. If I want to read Japanese masters I might as well learn Chinese for a richer idea of classical East-Asian literature. Ok welcome to my TED talk.

>> No.16704577

>>16704527
>he is the Japanese Beckett (who I haven't read).
The comparison makes no sense. If you haven't read Beckett what are you using to compare them

>> No.16704594

>>16703781
Translations are probably fine for most Japanese novels. It's my intuition speaking since I'm not too well-read in the originals, but there is an aesthetic sense to the great Japanese novelists which is the challenge of conveying through translation. No Longer Human for instance has a really stark tone, and porting it directly into English does it some justice but it's a style the Japanese language naturally accommodates better due to its grammatical structure. This is why almost no Anglo authors read like the great Japanese works. It should be fine overall but if you really like it, learn Japanese. There is no way something like Kokoro or Snow Country can truly be at its best in translation.

>> No.16704640

>>16703781
The Paulo Rubio translation (Gredos) is very good and has a great introduction.
Not sure about that one.
For other Japanese writers, avoid any Alianza, Emecé, Siruela or DeBolsillo editions. They're usually Jap > English > Spanish translations, so check beforehand.
The best catalog in Spanish is Satori's.

I think it would be better to read English translations though. The more famous translators met and worked with the original writers or their students (Soseki, Kawabata, Naoya, Mishima, etc).

>> No.16704644

My name is Yoshikage Kira. I'm 33 years old. My house is in the northeast section of Morioh, where all the villas are, and I am not married. I work as an employee for the Kame Yu department stores, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, but I occasionally drink. I'm in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I usually have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies, like winning and losing, that would cause me to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to fight I wouldn't lose to anyone.

>> No.16704660

>>16704577
I should've explained that I'm using their reputation as a comparison, since it's easier to compare another persona than just vague descriptions.

Specifically, Beckett is a late modernist, and despaired after Joyce's legacy. He has a pessimistic tone and wrote short stories as well. These are all analogous to Dazai. Of course their styles are different.

>> No.16704671

>>16704660
Also, they were both post-war writers; this is the biggest point really.

Compare Waiting for Godot to The Setting Sun; could be interesting.

>> No.16704672

>>16704644
based

>> No.16704691

>>16704644
NO!

NOOO!


GOD NOOO!!!!

>> No.16704732

>>16704660
Well, obviously. Dazai could never come up with Waiting for Godot. The style in Beckett's trilogy is nothing like Dazai. I also feel it's not the style Dazai would be particularly interested in reading.
I think that in Japan, "modernist" has a different definition than in the West. Soseki, for instance, is sometimes considered a modernist, and yet he wrote like a Japanese Dostoevsky (or perhaps a Dickens), decades after realism's big boom. His more experimental works are not as crazy as the West's. So, yes, modern compared to Edo Japan, Genji monogatari, etc., but not formally inventive by Western standards.

>> No.16705211

>>16704732
Yeah I kind of think Japan was slightly behind the French, who they read and admired the most.

It's kind of interesting that from literature we can see Japan entering its own distinct East-meets-West national psyche. Other cultures are usually dragged kicking and screaming or even at gunpoint.

Still think Dazai is better than Beckett, even if my opinion is unqualified.

>> No.16705596

>>16702307
>>16702473
>>16702495
>>16702493
just finished reading it
i don't get it

>> No.16705611

>>16705211

Dazai is my favorite Japanese author, but he decidedly is not. Beckett’s prose, particularly in How It Is and the Trilogy, are rivaled only by Joyce, Shakespeare, and Dante.

Dazai is thematically interesting and certainly had piercing insights into the problems of his culture and the ensuing alienation, but nothing he produced touches Beckett’s great novels in form or audacity

>> No.16705616

Should I read Spring Snow?

>> No.16705688

>>16702373
Mishima was talked about a lot on /lit/ before Pewdiepie, but Pewds did ruin any chance of serious discussion after his videos on him

>> No.16705706
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16705706

>>16702307
Boogiepop is pretty alright literature

>> No.16705708
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16705708

>>16702307
I've read Snow Country and perhaps this is me admitting to what a retard I am, but I just didn't get it. It seemed like an extremely boring story of some pussy paying a prostitute to be his emotional support. I didn't get anything from it other than "Wow, that was boring"

What did I miss?

>> No.16705717

>>16705708
it had pretty writing but i didn't get it eiather
whenever i read books i don't get (which is 90% of them) i read essays about it until i get it
gonna start reading some essays on it now

>> No.16705724

>>16702307
>>16702373
>>16705688
That's such bullshit, we've had so many good and at least typical discussions on Mishima since pewdiepie. It seems like you just want something to blame for yourself making less Mishima threads.

>> No.16705729

>>16705717
>gonna start reading some essays on it now

Please report back with your findings, kudasai

>> No.16705900

>>16702307
i like mashima or whatever his called. His books are well written and extremely entertaining to read as dark comedy

>> No.16705906

>>16702307
Japanese major de gozaimasu

favorite
>Kokoro
currently reading
>Tale of Genji
recommendations
>Makioka Sisters, Naomi, Wild Geese, Samurai (Shusaku)

My Jap Lit professors (one medieval, one modern) despise Murakami

>> No.16705963

>>16705729
i suppose, from what i've read so far, Shimamura is a rich guy who inherited his wealth and is disconnected from the world. he thinks he understands things but he really doesn't (he claims to understand love but when he greets Komako at the beginning of the book all he does is make a sexual reference, showing that he confuses sexual pleasure with love. also, he claims to know about western dance, but has never seen it performed before).
Komako is a cheap gisha and basically a prostitute who is wasting her youth and love on Shimamura who is too consumed with fantasy and is too aloof to love her back. Like the linens which are made with the labors of an entire season which get discarded like playthings, or the diary catalogue of novels which leads nowhere, Komako's efforts at loving Shimamura are completely wasted.
i suppose the main focus of the story is to study the futile efforts of a desperate girl and how she interacts with a detached man
since the story is from Shimamura's perspective, and since Shimamura is so consumed in fantasy and his interactions with the world are not rationally processed but instead more artistically processed, the story is conveyed in a poetic style which focuses a lot on sensations. because of this, i think, character actions and motives and even plot points are confused and scrambled into a sort of dream-like condition. this division from reality or focus on a fantasy land is also expressed through the book's setting itself: the town in which the novel is set is cut off from the world. it is a town hidden in a mountain and buried in snow.
out of all i've read, no one seems to mention Yoko, so i'm not sure how she fits into it

>> No.16705987

Dazai was probably the best or at least the most piercing writer of the 20th century and easily the best Japanese writer to ever live. It's a real shame he didn't write more.

>> No.16706136

I'm reading 1Q84, fucking piece of shit.
Just finished book 1.

>> No.16706159

>>16706136
as in it's shit and you don't like it?
i read norwegian wood and i felt the same

>> No.16706210
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16706210

>>16702307
Yeah... Kind of...

>> No.16706347
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16706347

I have reached the point where I almost exclusively read books in Japanese.
I don't know why but I feel a deep, constant compulsion to read books about people falling deep in love and finding happiness. Japan is so incredibly good at writing stories like that.
I read a beautiful confession scene in a visual novel last week. A typical visual novel can easily be over 50 hours long so by the time you get to a confession scene the book has spent something like ten hours exploring the love interest. You know everything about her; her dreams, her fears, that cute noise she makes when she sneezes. Seeing a wonderful person I know that well blush and smile and hold back warm tears as she accepts and exchanges first kisses with the protagonist is magical. It's like a beautiful wedding trapped in a book.
I understand that a literary diet of nothing but romance novels is the equivalent of a regular diet of nothing but ice cream. But I think that literature has more to do with the way you read and less to do with which book. I've found a surprising amount of intellectual pleasure in examining every decision the author makes and trying to determine why they made it, breaking down romances into little bits and pieces to figure out how they work. It's amazing how if you use technique X with Y tone after you established Z 100 pages ago loves swells from the human heart and you create a happy memory that lasts a lifetime. The world is so naturally cold and uncaring, but it turns out if you do the right things in the right order you can essentially put happiness in a bottle and sell it for 630円(税別). I've spent the last six years of my life reverse engineering the formula and it's the most fun thing I've ever done.

>> No.16706581

>>16702307
Apart from books already mentioned, In The Miso Soup is fucking ingenious. I've thinking about that book for several weeks after I had read it.

>> No.16706661

>>16704594
>It should be fine overall but if you really like it, learn Japanese
Learning Japanese is a large time investement. Is its literature alone worth the effort?

>> No.16706680

>>16702307
Sure. But I like their manga more. The only medium that produces compelling fiction nowadays.

>> No.16706686

I'll check out Naomi, seems interesting. Thanks lit lads.

>> No.16706700

>>16702307
Only read the few short stories that have been translated to Norwegian. I liked most of those. Trying to read Kafka on the Shore, but some of the descriptions feels perverse and smut like, even if it is only a small part.

>> No.16707138

>>16702413
based gigachad

>> No.16707146

>>16706680
You are a plebeian.

>> No.16707163

>>16702307
is that nyrb miyazawa collection any good

>> No.16707186

>>16706661
Alone probably not. Japan has a fascinating culture and history though which you can't fully engage with unless you learn the language. You will always be reading 'about them' rather than 'them' until you learn a country's native language. If you're on 4chan I would assume you have at least some interest in Japan: For me I don't even like anime or manga much, but I enjoy visual novels a lot, and Japanese society interests me. That's part of why I learned Japanese. If you have no other interests related to Japan, it's not worth it, but you should really explore their culture more to be sure since it's gigantic.

>> No.16707189

>>16707163
I haven't read it but he is famous for his short stories. I don't know if that selection has adult and/or children stories though. Night on the Galactic Road was very nice, but as I'm not into children's lit, it didn't really have an effect on me.

>> No.16707525

>>16705596
told you

>> No.16707954

>>16702373
Mishima and Dazai are the mother and the father. You need nothing else.

That said, Atsushi, Mori Ogai, Kawabata

>> No.16707963

>>16702380
>Gogo no Eiko (A Sailor Who Fell From Grace With the Sea)
English title is superior.

>> No.16707972

>>16704039
>simping for the town bicycle: the novel

>> No.16708004

>>16707186
>>16704594
>actually learned Japanese for the literature
>still too fucking difficult to read real literature
>stuck on Harry Potter and Kino no Tabi until I get more time to grind
The thought of reading Mishima in Japanese makes me want to cry. Only unexpected benefit, I no longer rely on scanlators and subs. Something I want to read isn't translated? Makes no difference to me. I'm coming to prefer manga in nip.

>> No.16708009

>>16705906
What do you make of Genji anon? I'm 800 pages in, finding the last section especially a slog. It clearly is at least 400 years ahead of anything I can think of psychologically in terms of literature though

>> No.16708068

>>16707186
I take it that it would take several years if hard work to get there. I was able to barely teach myself French, but that was easier since I already knew both English and Spanish. Japanese entices me, but it also scares the fuck out of me.

>> No.16708079

>>16702326
It is mentioned in Psycho-Pass and referenced in light novel Yours and My Asylum

>> No.16708220

>>16707138
not based or nice at all

>> No.16708421

>>16702779

Because, by trying to change his natural state he showed his obsession over it which highlighted it to others. For example, an ugly fellow vs someone who obviously used to be ugly who obsesses about it to the point of 'fixing' it.

Its about artificiality

>> No.16708557

>>16702413
holy fucking shit that was something...
I could have gone my whole life whiteout knowing that existed...

>> No.16708567

>>16708557
i just wanted to know about the anime where the girls read Snow Country on a train
>>16708079
>It is mentioned in Psycho-Pass
is it read by anime girls on a train?

>> No.16709533

>>16708421
But why people changed after he changed? Shouldn't they threat him bad when he had a giant nose?

>> No.16709664

>>16705906
>japanese major
>says murakami as if there's only one
sad

>> No.16709666
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16709666

>>16702307
Part 3 of Kokoro is the most attached I've been to a piece of literature ever
I don't know if its just me personally, but I can see myself in both K and sensei, and I want to be like K, but I lack the courage do embrace the lifestyle he led out of fear of my shortcomings leading to my misery. I don't know. I'm interested in anybody elses interpretation of this book because i never see discussion of it outside this board. Was Kokoro a tragedy? Was it telling us a message to communicate and be more open? Was it conveying the danger of being extremely spiritually concerned? Or the danger of just being a bad-faith friend? All I know is that I love this story.

>> No.16709713

>>16708009
I love it- particularly Tyler's 2001 version. I've done some medieval Japanese translation myself and it certainly adds to my appreciation of it. Knowing the Imperial Anthologies as well as some Classical Chinese stories helps with understanding some of the references in the waka- but not everyone is into that.

The author of the last ten or so chapters is often disputed and perhaps that's what you're noticing. I typically have separate tabs open with genealogical charts and footnotes so I don't miss anything, but it just increases the time it takes to get through it.

When you compare it other works of the period like Ise, Heike, Pillow Book, etc, it's clear how impressive Genji is.

>> No.16709762

>>16709664
I am retarded but I don't think it's too difficult to discern which Murakami I'm referring to :^)

>> No.16709982

>>16709762
it might be for people who've only heard of haruki, which I claim is the case for 90% of this board

>> No.16710214

>>16709666
nice trips g

I felt the same way when reading Part 3. I am more biased to historical analyses and therefore considered the time period around the news of General Nogi's death as important in understanding the plot. Social and political structures were experiencing harsh modifications and I think this novel explores some of the issues individuals had with adjusting to the times, not unlike much of post-war literature in Japan. Edo period traditional relationships were being challenged by Western influence and thought. I think generational modernization is symbolized by Sensei's experience as it spills over into the narrator's.

Each of the five Confucian relationships suffer major failures. Ruler-Subject (Emperor and Nogi), Father-Son (pretty much every father figure in the story), Elder-Younger Brother (Sensei's Dad and Uncle), Husband-Wife (Sensei and Ojosan), Friend-Friend (Sensei and K). I think it's significant that the "old way" fails at almost every opportunity.

General Nogi's guilt is mirrored in Sensei's relationship with K and this has made me wonder to what extent guilt is useful. Is there a proper way to manage it? Is guilt's sole utility simply a tool of prevention?

I, too, wish I was more like K.

>> No.16710333

>>16708004
Did you try Mishima? I haven't read him but for me so far Dazai isn't hard at all.
>>16708068
Everyone who has ever learned a difficult language knows the sort of intimidation you feel as a beginner: the knowledge that almost everyone who ever starts it gives up, that people still disagree on basic methodology, that perhaps you're honestly not invested enough to learn the language, and so on. And these are valid concerns. You'll probably fuck around and waste time on something ineffective for your learning because you couldn't have known better. Nearly everyone gets demotivated and takes a significant break once in their studies, if not multiple. It is like a slow uphill climb, but the good news is once you can enjoy material in its native Japanese, that uphill slope becomes a downhill one and it takes a fraction of the effort to do anything that it did before. I'm not kidding when I say absolutely everything becomes easier once you're a solid intermediate. My worst memory of learning JP was actually finishing Genki and going straight to manga, and getting totally blindsided by how different Japanese is when it's being used in real life. I had a similar experience later when using the Japanese internet but it wasn't as bad (a lot of them do stuff like type in kansaiben because it's cool). But anyways, I'll tell you a few things that helped me:
● Genki is a waste of money which covers a tiny amount of material, read Tae Kim
● Writing is entirely unnecessary
● Learning radicals is unnecessary
● Buy learners' books that come with audio CDs, and review the book until you can understand the CD without reading the content alongside it
● Mnemonics are extremely useful, learn how to use them
● Keep track of what you read/listen to in general so you can go back later to review it - "Am I remembering this new vocab?"
● Consult multiple grammar resources if one isn't helping you out
● Don't waste time in Japanese language learning communities
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

>> No.16710384

>>16702560

I highly doubt that, buddy.

>> No.16710444

>>16710384
i read a japanese translation of kant

>> No.16710452

>>16710444
Sounds like a waste of time, read in English or German

>> No.16710573
File: 432 KB, 1092x805, ss.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16710573

>>16710214
I never even thought about the parallels between the Confucian relationships and their representation in the book, so thankyou for bringing that up! Another aspect worth mentioning is in the very beginning in the book, Sensei is with a westerner at the beach when the narrator first sees him, and I wonder if the westerner symbolizes Sensei's (earlier with K) embracing of self-interest over honor (With the West being self-interest and the East, honor, (sorry if this is an elementary conception because I don't know much about the new western ideas on the social dynamic in Japan)), and when he goes to the beach without the westerner giving the narrator the time to meet Sensei it represents Sensei's return to Japanese ideals leading to his seppuku?

K, to me, is a role model, and it is his death that completes the book for me, because I have read Kierkegaard and I can only think of his ideas of an absolute devotion towards God through the leap of faith to escape the confusion and misery of the aesthetic-ethical mode of living, and Kierkegaard's own life where he broke off the engagement with the love of his life in order to devote himself to God, leading to his misery within leaving the love of his life, but doubly his faith in God being more infinite and absolute than any other relation. K, to me, represents someone like this who struggles in abandoning the temporal absolutely, he refuses his brazier, and even food, and he tried to refuse moving in, but over time Ojosan got to him. I wonder if it is because his ideals truly were challenged by his gripping fall for Ojosan, that he resolved to kill himself, and to ease the immense stress that was this path he wanted to devote his life toward. Or could it be that K was jealous that Sensei got her first? I am less inclined towards the latter.

Was K made miserable by his own draconian ascetic practices? I think back to the cliff on the sea scene, where Sensei grips K by the neck and feigns to push him off, and K acts apathetic towards dying at all, about being pushed towards his death in the sea. If K is trying to resign from the temporal so much, I really wonder if he has lost any value for the temporal world at all, and living to him is just a continuation of the will he wants to reject, and it is in the afterlife where his reward waits. But shouldn't ascetic men be happy through their immense virtue and practice of denying the will? I wonder if K is just too young and emulates the men of old out of necessity and does not follow the path for itself, but rather out of custom of what his father did, but to a degree greater (for he joins a sect that requires celibacy)

>> No.16710654

>>16709533

No? Why would they treat him bad for how he naturally looks? His obsession with it is what was noticeable, particularly his artificiality in changing it.

Read it another way. The monk is Japan and Japan has a large, noticeable blemish (its culture being so far out of date). So it becomes obsessed with fixing this and takes measures to fix it (suddenly drowning itself in foreigners and technology). Now Japan is a bunch of samurai sons dressed in western suits, looking ridiculous because it is pretending to be a Western power.