/lit/ - Literature

>>16698837
>>rapey
What do you mean by this?
haven't read it

>>16699134
It’s the only good part

>>16699135
>>16699134
>>16698837
>rape
Jolenta was built to take BTC

>>16698837

>>16698837
Read it’s while back and I thought it was trash too

good morning i hate women

it's almost like she can sniff me...

>>16698837
you trannies can't ever stop with your constant fucking demoralization. you will never pass. you will never be accepted. you'll probably kill yourself

>>16698837
Jolenta consented anyway, and you're retarded if you can't understand that. she literally seduced him. but no, you just want to shit on a good book like the faggot that you are

>>16698837
Book one is trash. Why go on?

This series only got memed here because the collected edition has a cool cover

>>16699677

>>16699134
The protagonist may or may not rape multiple people throughout the books. It's really left up to the reader to interpret.

>>16699715
And that (rape) is a good thing.

>>16698837
Prose quality is the only thing that matters, and the preponderance of rape is part of the satirical edge against boilerplate science fiction/fantasy genre as a whole.

>ou·bli·ette
>/ˌo͞oblēˈet/
>noun
>a secret dungeon with access only through a trapdoor in its ceiling.

How long did it take you to realize how brilliant the setting was? "A trapdoor in its ceiling". The tower = rocket thing. The revolutionary not being some magical stuff. I've read a lot over the years (probably around 500 books), not a lot of fantasy or scifi, and I've never felt as feverish as during the first 100 or so pages of The Shadow of the Torturer. Truly converted into the Gene Wolfe creed by a semi naked muscled man with all 80s clichés on his back, talking as if he was writing Proust fanfiction.

>>16698837
>got a free audiobook coin thingy for audible
>"well I've heard a lot of good things from /lit/ about this book"
Not the best book for that medium and made me hate it. Felt like a fever dream.

>>16698837
>>plot is disjointed
>>>/reddit/

>>dialogue is forced
>>>/reddit/

>>rapey
>>>/reddit/

>>16700040
>Felt like a fever dream.
Sometimes it can be good.

>>16700122
>plot is disjointed
>>>/reddit/

>>dialogue is forced
>>>/tv/

>>rapey
>>>/goodreads/

Let's be accurate about plebdom anon.

>>16699894
This pic is fucking 11/10

>>16699354
>t. Rapist

>>16698837
filtered

>>16698837
>plot is disjointed
What that supposed to mean?
Why does it necessarily make it bad?

This series is amazing. Fifth head of Cerberus might be my favorite by him but I am looking forward to read his other stuff

>>16700665
in book 1 the episodes feel forced (suddenly we were in a car race and next thing I had the claw) the endings have climaxes but are unresolved in the next books

>>16698837
I remember giving it a try and it had two pages in the prologue explaining certain idioms of the fictional language used in the book's setting.
Is the book actually readable in a casual way or it's more of a puzzle the reader has to figure out? The idea is interesting but it seems a bit bothersome.

>>16698837
>Rapey
>"Why isn't the protagonist who tortures people for a living a decent human being like need?"
Goodreads midwit spotted.
>>16700712
It's not that hard to figure out if you're past the age of twenty. Even if you ignore the puzzle aspect, the story and prose is pleasurable to read and does interesting things with genre and style.

>>16700712
It’s perfectly fine to read casually. The only difficulty is the use of antiquated words instead of made up words for futuristic things. Most of the time you can figure it out from the context.

>>16700712
>Is the book actually readable in a casual way
If you are above 100 IQ, lmao.
No, but really: I read some funny negative reviews, that complained about the book being confusing, didn't get what was going on, etc.
Which is perfectly true (but not a bad thing by itself), the book is not blatant about anything.

But then I go on reading the review, and realize the person wasn't confused by the bizarre, and allegorical "plot"
No, no. This person didn't even understand the the language used
did not have troubles unraveling what's really going on, but did not get what was happening at the surface-level story

Holy shit! You know how dumb the average person can be, then you realize 1/4 of people is standard deviation dumber than that. And some of them, do in fact enjoy reading books.
So you get this mess.

>>16700759
>Most of the time you can figure it out from the context.
And when you can't, it's (maybe?) intentional. This book was written before you could "just google it"
Point is, he really could have used any word in those cases, as they are only very loosely indicative of the real object being referred
like the words that obviously is being used for some kind of animal, you are not supposed to know exactly what kind of animal it is, because it's an off-world/far future freaky thingy
you get this, no meaning is lost

I'm not a native English speaker, I'm not great with languages, still, after taking a look at the words used in the book after finishing it, as I did not consult any resources while reading, (I would recommend not doing so)
I'm pretty certain the only word I didn't get, where meaning was lost. Was whatever word is initially used to refer to the aliens.(Cacogens) A total blank for me

>>16698837
>rapey

>>16700712
Download Lexicon Urthus from b-ok.cc and keep it open if you have issues with the vocabulary

>>16698837
When I read it, I felt like I was with him, walking in some weird medieval town, and through some glass superdome. His side characters come off a bit weird sometimes, but when I think about it, it's still pretty realistic because he doesn't know what the hell's happening half the time either.

His prose is literally too advanced for most of the people on /lit/.

Here's a sample.

>>16702502
God that's one of my favorite passages, thanks for posting anon. It's time for a re-read.

>>16702502
lmao, know i know this book is absolute trash. You, anime retards and incels, will never have a hint of what culture is.

>>16702606
what's bad about it?

>>16699715
Sounds pretty based.

>>16702606
Please learn how to form a coherent sentence, sub-60 IQ mongrel.

>>16698837
>plot is disjointed
It's written to be disjointed.
>dialogue is forced
what does this even mean? All dialogue is "forced."
>rapey
Yep

>>16699366
Don't, go read some Young Adult fantasy about a guy who has to learn to live as a werewolf or something.

>>16698837
Which translation do I get?

>>16700712
dude it's easy it's just that you can get a lot more out of it if you pay attention

>>16701142
yea the point is to obscure the scifiness with unfamiliar words and more fantasy-like phrasing. it really shines when you read something as-is and then realise what it actually means all at once.

>>16703475
>written to be disjointed

explain

>>16698837
f i l t e r e d
h a r d

>>16702606
>Holy shit! You know how dumb the average person can be, then you realize 1/4 of people is standard deviation dumber than that. And some of them, do in fact enjoy reading books.
>So you get this mess.

>>16698837
Agreed.

What did Wolfe mean by this?

Building up to some large event, then skipping over the actual telling of the event, jumping directly to describing the outcome of the event

Actually my example is bad, as it was revisited later in the book, but you know what I mean, if you've read any of his books
I don't think any of his books I've read don't do this:
An Evil Guest - Check
Any and all of the 12 books in the Urth series
Wizard/Knight, no doubt
Fifth Head of Cerberus hits on 2/3 of the stories
It's basically the premise of 'Peace'

Obviously I am still a big admirer of his work, and don't necessarily consider this "trick" a detriment, he of course writes like this to effect, and for a reason.
But it can be so incredibly off-putting
Want to hear the great speech that swayed the people, which the 4 books was building up to? Nah, the narrator had to take shelter from bombs, so he wasn't present, he was later told it was really good, though. HOLY FUCK
It's an interesting technique, to say the least.
It's not like he's incapable of writing these scenes either, as several of the books have actual high-points that dwarves the ones I complain about getting skipped..
Like he wanted to do two things, but the book can't fit both, so he tossed one out. Or using it to build suspense, like a thriller.

>>16704130
Clearly it’s an allusion to The Hobbit where Tolkien does the same thing. ;)

>>16698837
Currently reading it, book 3, it's not bad, good sometimes, but it's definitively not the masterpiece /lit/ claims in my humble opinion

>>16702502
wtf, that's not bad at all. I might actually read this, are you people complaining about this book actually so retarded you cant understand this?

>>16704130
I think it was Marc Aramini or one of the Wolfe podcasts who called this the "slingshot" ending or effect. Basically, Wolfe would build some event up and next thing you know, the 'stone' is flying through the air and eventually it lands somewhere, but you don't know the details of the trajectory, only the landing point. The clearest example is the ending of Shadow and the Gate thing. A bunch of violence and then...

>>16699715
so?

>>16698837
>rapey
you have my attention, will check this out

>>16700712
>I remember giving it a try and it had two pages in the prologue explaining certain idioms of the fictional language used in the book's setting.
that's not really uncommon at all in the fantasy/scifi genres

>>16703976
The intentional ambiguity of the words, the unreliable narrator and the read-between-the-lines implied happenings make the book "larger" than it is.

>>16698837
Wiki makes mention of something "darker than black" wonder how edgy it is now

OP here i forgot to mention that i'm a pre-op trans-woman

>>16705094
The book could hardly be called edgy. The main character is a romantic and deeply religious when he's not being unreliable.
The material is darker than black because it's used in clothes, supposed to mask blood stains extremely well (worn by torturers).
There's also a real life material with the same property
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack
Also a common motif in Wolfe. See the shadow in the novelette The Silhouette.

I just read a few pages of the Amazon sample and there's already a bunch of silly made up words and pseudo-archaic larpery and an anime swordfight in a graveyard. Pass.

>>16705389
Gene Wolfe doesn't make up any words

>>16705385
>The main character is a romantic

he's obsessive and creepy as fuck

>>16705389
>the slightest hint of action is anime
okay

>>16706487
He's most certainly a romantic.
Among other things.

Just read the Dark Tower series lol

>>16706788
how can I tell you're an incel xD

>>16699354
Wasn't it Dorcas that got more egregiously raped?

>>16698837
just the hint I needed to read the series again, last time I only got to the second book but I remember enjoying the prose and the scenery

>>16707580
if you're using a very liberal application of the word rape I suppose you could view it that way.

>>16698837
imagine writing a post like this and thinking you are saying anything

>>16707539
How does that make him an incel, he's right? Do you know what "romantic" means?

>of, characterized by, or suggestive of an idealized view of reality.

The group he's in are called the "seekers of truth and penitence" which implies that, as a human absolution has to be interpreted as punishment. His ideals change when he winds up becoming autarch, which is a much higher state that a mere mortal. This is also where he "drafts" his religious "tiers" and basically faces the concept of OTG "the increate"

This is of course also relevant with the idea of love because Severian is deeply in love with a few characters, one who actually becomes a part of his consciousness when he spends time with Vodalus, even before he merges with the Autarch himself and becomes the leader of men.

End of the story Severian has experienced many lives and can finally petition to let his planet live.