/lit/ - Literature

John Sladek

>>16664353
First for still not being over the finale of GOT
Made me go from fantasy to sci-fi

>>16664353
Based

>>16664353
Based OP

>>16664365
We can still hope that the fat man will provide a proper ending before he dies of diabetes r-right bro

>>16664553
No bro, we can't :(

I will post in the non-discord thread.

Is anybody else following Raymond E. Feist's latest series, Firemane Saga? He took a long time between the first and second books, which I do not recall being usual for him. It's also not related at all to his previous setting and stories. I don't see Feist mentioned at all here except the occasional anon who read Daughter of the Empire or Riftwar.

BRANDOOM SANDERSTORM

Biffbap Standerdorf

The true thread was victorious!

>>16664877
interesting... is there any sjw/progressive/identity politics?

dunes main character is a mary sue, dude is super intelligent, beats everyone at everything, and becomes a sand god at the end of hte series

>>16665306
>becomes a sand god at the end of hte series
That's his son. Also, that's not what a mary sue is. You can (eventually) beat everyone at everything and still not be a mary sue. Paul Atreides painstakingly overcame a shitload of adversity and his entire house was destroyed in the process. If he did it without effort/challenge/adversity, I might buy it, but there are times when he is more-or-less helpless (example: he defeated the gom jabbar, but he was still forced to take part in it. He still almost failed the test.)

"The sleeper has awakened" should tell you all you need to know about Paul not being a mary sue.

Ive started Malazan but cant tell if its worth it yet. Is this series enjoyed by a lot of people? I understand it may be tough to get into but it picks up, right?

Any sci fi or fantasy similar to the martian? Basically a man vs nature story but I'm ok with less realism and more fantastical elements. Also a single guy rather than a group would be better

>>16665269
Not really how Feist rolls, if you know what he's like from other stuff he's written. If you don't, his fantasy draws a lot of inspiration from D&D and other tabletop games, so there's the familiar fantasy races of Dwarves, Elves (regular and dark varieties) and magic talking dragons, etc. Stories mostly focus on young heroes banding together to save the kingdom/world from supernatural threats of ever-increasing scope. His books are very plot-focused, and plots tend to be straight forward conflicts of good vs evil resolved through fighting, magical or otherwise. So no political, philosophical, or religious tracts in Feist's work. Fitting his books into the culture war would require a lot of close reading and extrapolating of his ideas since there's little or not political thoughts given voice by his characters.

>>16665346
>Is this series enjoyed by a lot of people?
Yes, it has a sizable fanbase. That shouldn't be the determination of whether you read it though, you should only bother if you are enjoying it, because Malazan is a very lengthy and involved series, and that's a lot of reading and effort to go to for something you don't enjoy.
>I understand it may be tough to get into but it picks up, right?
I was engaged with Malazan from the start so I'm not really sure what your problems are with it or what you mean by "picks up". I've seen other people in these threads explain their issues, so I'll summarize the three major ones I recall: 1) too many names with too little context. The first book was frequently said to be disorienting because it didn't explain enough of what was happening and it was a barrage of unfamiliar names for people, places, and things; 2) breakneck pacing. The plot moves very quickly and a lot of things happen in quick succession, which some readers expected to be drawn out much longer, and they feel like too much is happening without time to become invested in the characters; and 3) abrupt and jarring change in locations and characters, this is especially true after the first book. For people who site this as a problem, they often do not make it past book 5, even if they managed to take the other location/character shifts in stride.

So I am going to guess your issues with Malazan are one of those three common complaints I have seen in /sffg/ in the past. In which case, all I can say is these complaints are just how the series is, you either like the series for these reasons or you stop before wasting any more time. If your reasons are one of the ones mentioned feel free to quit because the payoff for the series likely will not satisfy you, since it will require putting up with more of the same stuff.

>>16665346
Try and make it to the second book. If you don’t like that, then feel free to drop the series.

Anyone know some great books or serials with a lot of potential?
The type of works that are either unpublished or self published.

I've been browsing http://webfictionguide.com/ and royalroad so suggestions from there are good but I do believe there are hidden gems that are harder to stumble across.

>>16665348
my diary desu

>>16664877
>Firemane Saga
I am. Finished the two books a few months ago.
Decent overall, altough i found the supposed "master" spies to be pretty "weak" when it came to showing and not talking about their abilities.

The entire political system is plausible and decent. I think the third book is gonna be an important part of the series as we're most likely getting the full on Fire Mane Blood powers going on.

Like it has been a non to low magic setting and with this Fire Mane we're heading straight for Magical Fantasy. So Feist is probably trying to make it all rhyme before he publishes. The man likes to plot stuff out.

>>16665348
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinsonade

>>16665584
Name one you fanfiction reading degenerate.

>>16665348
Earth Abides
I Am Legend
Concrete Island

>>16665673
I read the first book when it was new, and picked up the latest one once I saw it had been published but haven't read it yet. Glad to see it's still moving in an interesting direction cause I remember being overall interested in the series after finishing book one. I think I might reread it before starting book 2, as a refresher.

>>16665685
I like Supreme Magus though it is rough to read as the author isn't English.
Azarinth Healer is even worse as it took the author around 100-200 chapters to start defining his protagonist. Terribly embarrassing dialog too but is a simple and straight forward work once it finally gets going.
A practical guide to evil is my favorite of anything though I think it is too much of a heavy weight to really include it with what I'm looking for.

What's up with the ending to Children of Ruin? Is the implication that the parasite is actually controlling each of the sentient races in the future when they're exploring space, or that Meshner and Fabian's implant allowed them all to be one at some point?

Looks like the mega link is dead
R I P

What do I read next?

>Dune Messiah
>Red Mars
>Foundation

Just re-read Dune #1 for the umpteenth time and have never read past that one before.

>>16665919
2nd Dune book is good 3rd is too bizarre for me.

>>16665746
Guide to evil turns into a slog after a book or two.
Truth is, it's all rather trash, but if you like trash then there's some decent popcorn there. I waste far too much time reading we fiction and idk I somehow still read the shit litrpgs that pop up without killing myself

>>16665919
Leviathan Wakes

>Haven't written anything since high school
>Dropped out of college
>Decide to start randomly writing a science fiction horror thriller with zero scientific knowledge or even a basic outline for the plot
H-Here I go!

>>16665919
Foundation novels are pretty good.

>>16666086
I don't think science is ever very important in a space horror story

>>16666086
Enjoy man, I'm just starting out writing a horror/military sf book here and I don't know shit either.

any novels similar to pic related aside from 40k?

37th for Colleen McCullough
>>16665919
All great choices. If I could choose an order then erase my memory I'd do Foundation, Second Foundation, stop at Foundation and Empire. Then the three Mars books. Then reread Dune and read through Chapterhouse

>>16666132
Unless it gets any amount of recognition and stem lords tear it apart as if the science was the focus of the story

where tf do u buy the karl edward wagner kane novels in physical form without having to pay extortiante prices. i got bloodstone and that was a steal but the rest are extremely expensive

>>16666232
THE RINGWORLD IS UNSTABLE

>>16666251
Thriftbooks.com?
>>16666232
Why make it space/sci-fi horror if the science is so bad or nonexistent it can be ordinary or fantasy horror? What's the difference between a spaceship and a cargo ship or fracking platform once you remove the science?

Brrrapdumm Smamberplum

>>16666251
I got Bloodstone, 2x Dark Crusade, Darkness Weaves, Death Angel's Shadow, and Night Winds for $77 through eBay.

>>16664877
I've never read anything by him, but I do have the Preferred edition of Prince Of The Blood. Can I just jump in if I know literally nothing about the Riftwar series?

>>16666232
who cares about sperg lords?

>>16666427
lmao it sucks because bloodstone is really fucking good and im hungry for moar kane but their so expensive

>>16665346
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Malazan. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of anthropology most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Fiddler's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Dostojevsky literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Malazan truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Bridgeburner's existencial catchphrase "First In, Last Out," which itself is a cryptic reference to Tolstoy's Russian epic War and Peace I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Strven Erikson's genius unfolds itself on their Kindle screens. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have an Eleint tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

Just finished Three Body Problem, enjoyed it but thought some of the stuff towards the end was a bit of an asspull. Are the two sequels worth reading?

>>16666232
I'd be honored to waste that much of a STEM majors time, I'm robbing them of good money.

>>16667212
There is another asspull at the end of Dark Forest. I liked it better than 3BP, much more world building and a lot stranger. There's literally an extended section where the MC falls in love with a fictional character. Like 20 pages. He goes to see a doctor, and they tell him that it's perfectly normal.

>>16666086
That's the cutest crocodile I've ever seen.

>>16665832
Someone caused a problem with it.
Here's a new link:
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/guIyhAzS

>>16667341
It's jarring because he nonchalantly introduces literal magic (it's just a hallucination, bruh) after 900 pages of STEM autism and tries to pass it as artistry (it's a writer, dude).
The "stories" in the last book are cringe. Worse than reading an engineer's first poems.
The only worthy metaphor in the whole series is the "dark forest", which might be some game theory concept, idk.

So I just started reading Children of Dune. So Paul's children...participated in the sietch orgies? At nine years old?

O-Okay Frank

>>16667502
I don't think it's that kind of orgy.

>>16667712
I looked up the wiki, and yeah it also entails that kind of orgy too.

/newfag/ here. Is there a /lit/ cyberpunk starter pack? Read a few of the main ones but want to dive deeper.

>>16664353

>>16667502
maybe they just watched or fetched drinks lmao

>>16667712
I don't think any kind of orgy is okay for a 9 year old

>>16666277
Ringworld is based and pleb filter due to women being objects.

Give me your most batshit insane sci fi. I've read Dune and Ringworld and I love it.

>>16667979
"Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman

>>16667988
>Harlan Ellison

Oh boy! I'm in for a treat!

>>16667979
I'm sure there's a bunch of stories that don't make sense but if you want something good and trippy then Vurt by Jeff Noon

I couldn't put this down. Anyone else read it? I found myself completely drawn in by the world and the main character.

After reading ASOIAF, I've been looking for work similar to GRRM's. I've read the first two books of The Book of The New Sun by Gene Wolfe and plan on reading the rest. I've read a couple by Joe Abercrombie, which I know everyone shits on but I really got into. Anyone else?

>>16668070
I haven't yet, but I intend to. Her first book took actual effort to read, though, and I don't think I'll be able to jump straight from the biography I'm reading now into it.

>>16668089
Piranesi is a much shorter and quicker read than Strange and Norrel. Much smaller cast, but a similar feel to it, if that makes sense.

>>16665121
I don't know what meme this is, but I'm hype for Dawnshard and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

>>16667979
Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch is fairly wild, lot of other stuff in PKD's catalog.

>>16666463
From what I recall, Prince of the Blood kind of works as a stand alone novel, but it's set several decades after the events of the Riftwar Saga so it's simultaneously removed enough that it's not directly tied to those events anymore, yet also still heavily based on the events that preceded, given the main character is related to a lot of the key characters from Riftwar.

I'd say give it a shot, if you feel like you're missing too much context, then maybe start with Riftwar.

>Her forehead had been shattered. The skull was obviously indented, bashed in at a spot above her eyes, cracked pieces of the bone protruding through red gore and gray mush. Her eyes stared directly ahead, flat, unmoving, no sign of life behind them, yet she lived somehow, her lungs taking in air.
rip

>>16667979
The Third Policeman, if you consider it SciFi.

>>16668083
Read Bakker newfriend

>>16668083
The Iron King (hist. fiction)
The Dragonborn Chair

>>16664353
Goodreads Choice Awards 2020
FANTASTY: Women 12/15, 2/3 of the male authors have female protagonists.
SCIENCE FICTION: Women: 7/15...but 6/8 of the male authors have female protagonists.
The FUTURE & PRESENT are FEMALE!

>>16668523
Women read more than men so this is inevitable

>>16668523
>women are nearly 20% less likely to be chosen for a science fiction award
We must address the Science Fiction Gap.

>>16668523
Anon I don't care about your autism, I just want good stories.

I know I'm going to sound like an edgelord, but is there any good anarchist-themed books? preferably without the edgelord elements but more about breaking down what would go into an anarchist community

Long ago I remember seeing a flowchart about Malazan Book of the Fallen. Does anyone have it? The Mega doesn't work for me

>>16668725
The Dispossessed by Le Guin

>>16668862
I refuse to read feminist female authors
also I forgot to mention I don't want the type of anarchy conflated with leftism but true anarchy

how often is philosophy or political ideology discussed in sci fi? how much of it is "just for fun"? I'm relatively new to the genre

>>16667364

>gena and chiburashka

Brings me back to my cyrillic spelling attempts writing childrens texts.

>>16667979
Fourth Mansions
Past Master

>character has a massive sword

>have to spend hours researching and thinking about how it would be sheathed and carried, a sword that large is very difficult to unsheathe, it would bang around all the time, if worn on the hip it would drag along the ground. No sheathe isn't really practical due to rust and accidently cutting something, how does the character sheathe it if they need to grab or carry something or climb.

>>16668869
that's the big anarchy scifi book. If you want ancap type anarchism then cyberpunk

>>16668869
Le Guin is actually the best bar fucking none you shit. She practiced feminism before it went absolutely fucking retarded.

>>16669006
check out berserk

It's my first time reading dune and I'm 170 pages in; Hawat and Jessica just had their little discussion about who's a traitor. I don't really like the relationships between the characters, they dislike each other a bit and then something happens and suddenly they are, simply put, besties(Kynes and Leto, Jessica and Hawat). I enjoy the worldbuilding which is done nicely because the main characters, just like the reader, need to be introduced to these foreign concepts, although I would have enjoyed more descriptions of their buildings and such, I feel it a bit lacking for now. These criticisms might be because I am not an native English speaker, but most words I don't know have nothing to do with the description of the setting, but more of the behaviour or the people.
Paul is also not really likeable, he's /too much/, I can't express it well. I am not really a fantasy reader, so it might be that.
Am I misreading these things?

>>16669150
all the characters in dune are cold calculating unlikeable political machines

>>16669229
yes, I don't like it.

>>16669240
Don't read on then. It's a political scifi book, it's not going to change from that. There are emotional characters, but somehow they manage to come off as cold no matter what. I liked it for the worldbuilding and the general sense of resignation and inevitable chaining of humanity to the spice.

>>16668264
>The Iron King
Dangerously based. Add the rest of Les Rois Maudits. A Song of Poop and Cucking pales in comparison
>>16667979
Amazed that nobody has mentioned the Illuminatus! Trilogy

>>16667857
guys how can Bakker be so based and so cringe at the same time?

>>16667770
this is all I could find from my collection, see Cyberpunk section

>>16668873
Rarely, it's not that science fiction and fantasy can't expand into philosophy or political ideology it's just that people who want to discuss those things are rarely ever qualified too.

>>16669006
How large?

make him a poncy noble with two servants who follow him carrying the massive sword.

>>16667979
Nova by Samuel R. Delany

Anything by Delany really

>>16668873
re: philosophy, a fair amount if you know where to look. off the top of my head Watts's Blindsight tries to tackle consciousness, and Greg Egan does a whole slew of shit. I like to view a lot of sci-fi in this vein as one big though experiment, e.g. What if we WERE able to upload our minds to machines? Would that still be us? What would happen to society? etc etc

>>16669541
>are rarely ever qualified too
who is qualified? academic philosophers and academic political theorists? oh boy ..

>>16667770

>>16669565
Including Hogg by Delany?

>>16669656
Sure, why not

Personally I think Delany is massively overestimated but if you're into that, have fun

How do I make up a language or even just invent words in one?

>>16669930
steal an obscure language and change a few letters

>>16669485
Its what makes a man great.

>>16664877
I've been reading it, but I disliked Queen of Storms a lot. The female character seems to be just pulling shit out of her ass constantly, whenever she hits an obstacle some random bullshit deus ex machina immediately presents a solution and I'm pretty tired of it.

>>16670019
That’s really not a bad idea and has the added benefit of making people wonder if the book might have an alternate history angle or something like that to make it seem deeper than it is.

>>16669930
Take a language. Make a substitution cipher out of it, then change the syntax (noun subject verb, subject noun verb etc, Yoda basically).

>>16669541
I was thinking he's like 6 foot 8, so his sword would probably be about 6 feet.

And yeah I did consider having someone follow him around and he could unsheathe it from their hands

>>16670220
He would use a Lanyard sling, so it can be slung over the back but unsheathed from the hip. The sheathe would be dropped once the weapon is drawn.
Big swords are dumb when it comes to a character traveling alone, they're heavy, obvious, and awkward. If this character was wandering about he'd probably just get a mule and sling it on that rather than lug it himself.

>>16668070
Currently reading. Really nice so far.

>>16669006
>>16670220
go with no sheathe but something like this? just like strap or something

>>16670220
I'd imagine he would carry it on horseback like you'd carry a short spear and be handled by a squire. Something that big would be pretty inefficient anyway. He'd still have a huge reach from his longer limbs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pier_Gerlofs_Donia

An alternative would be using it as a walking cane or staff, with a guard or sheathe designed to not be cumbersome to hold or move around holding it. Still, what sort of maniac would carry around a 5-6 pounds walking stick.

>>16667979

>>16670435
>>16670220
Also check
https://youtu.be/py7D0vuHbdo

>write for a living
>it's all commissioned/ghostwritten stuff
>write and edit something like 100,000 words a month
>definitely have the work ethic to write my own novel
>always dreamt of getting a fantasy novel published
>look at the absolute state of the publishing industry
>mediocre women writers getting propped up
>Brandon Sanderson considered a good writer
>Hacktric Rothfuss considered a good PROSE writer
Is there a point to trying? I know from my profession that readers can be undiscerning retards, but holy fuck is it bleak.

>>16669490
>>16669625
Thank you based anons. Much appreciated.

>>16670509
Just write some shit for fun then self publish it with Kindle unlimited and you might make a few bucks. Traditional Publishing is going the way of the Dodo, for better or worse.

>>16665746
Read displaced if you are looking for 'hidden gems'. There are 5 main POV's and you will find at least one of them annoying but in my opinion, the technocrat dude himself makes the novel worth reading.
Read delve if you really like LitRPG's, Math, and occasional brilliance in writing.
Wandering Inn has a lot of faults in its first two volumes but if you stick with it then you will find the closest that can evoke the sense of wonder that old-school fantasy could.
Magic Smithing is comfy, but I don't think it will stay that way for too long.
I only keep up with these four even though I must have read at least 50 web novels this year. I also read LOTM, which was great even though the ending was a bit meh.

>>16670479
>>16670435
>>16670322
>>16670239
He's the captain of a mercenary company, I eventually figured it wasn't worth devoting a ton of words in a short story to how he carries his sword, gave him a sheathe with a carry handle attached like an m16, figure he just pulls the sheathe off the blade if he needs to use it.

If it was something longer storywise I would go into more detail

>>16670509
sanderson is a good writer, nobody says his prose is great, his plotting etc is fine

>>16670582
Spotted the faggot who watches anime.

Anyone got a link to the discord

>>16670598
I only watch your dad taking his morning shit, faggot.

>If the damned weather would only settle down for a few minutes, the captain would take his riders down Dock Street to meet up with others who were supposed to be approaching from the main barracks in Southtown.
>His horse slipped again, this time nearly spilling the captain from his saddle.
>“Damn the winter!”
FUCK winter.

>>16670766
>>16664353
previous deleted thread
>>/lit/thread/16664222

>all these web novels with ridiculous bullying, fighting and even killing in Fantasy high schools

Uhhhhh is this an asian thing

>>16671005
It’s a weeb thing. We need to bring back the term chuuni or “8th grade syndrome” to describe those fags.

FUCK
E
WILLIAM
BROWN

Just got done reading the second book in the Wheel of Time, and I gotta say that the Great Hunt was...pretty great.

>>16665524
I've been reading it late at night when I'm super tired so I believe that is my problem. I don't mind it jumping around to all the characters and it's not hard to follow, I'm just whipped from my day. Really liked what I read last night so hoping I can keep going and not give in to sleep

>>16671139
wait till matt starts being bad ass you'll skip chapters just to get to his especially dream chapters

>>16669541
>people who want to discuss those things are rarely ever qualified too.
people who want to discuss them heavy handedly, sure. its like those movies with perfectly fine plots but suddenly a character will blurt out "well what if we just build a wall to keep the bad guys out, that'd be pretty dumb eh heheheh". scifi authors tend to (though not always of course) have a bit more tact, to the point you can digest the deeper discourses if you want, or just take it in stride and enjoy the story.

how to people let their covers be this bad? is it just to grab your attention? how hard is it to commission a half decent artist to draw you a cover for like 50 bucks. it looks like a barely edited stock unity engine model.

>>16671621
People shouldn’t hire anybody to make their cover, nor should they bother to make one without skill. The classiest covers are the simplest covers, just the title, the author, and some satisfying lines.

>>16671633
You seem overly influenced by covers of "classic literary works".

>wrote an 80k military sci fi book back in high school
>never quite finished it
>take a look back at it
>most of it is complete, irredeemable garbage and I cringe the entire time I read it
Books for this feel?

>>16670582
t. only reads cliched YA

>>16671633
No way
I love some cover art, stared at it for minutes, dreaming, every time I picked up the book

any sci fi that is basically about technology progressing too quickly
bonus points if it at least skims over the idea of diminishing returns

Where can I find sff ebooks without supporting the publishers?

>>16670509
if fucking formulaic fantasy, cookie cutter sci-fi and shitty litrpgs can make money on amazon without a publisher than so can you anon.

>>16671621
New research from some German literary institute shows that covers don't actually contribute much to book sales. People seem to go much more by blurb and title for new books or by author name for established series.

>>16672504
Different anon.
Did it specify if that was overall or particular to certain types of books? A lot of other questions about the methodology.

>>16668962
Yeah, eastern European Languages are certainly a puzzle of their own calibre.

>>16672525
The actually provided a breakdown and it seemed to be pretty even among most genres except for romance novels. Those sales are driven by title and cover art but they did specify romance novels of the erotic nature so I am guessing its those that have half naked buff dudes on them. Ill have to look if I can find it again but it was from 2017 or 18 so I'm not sure ill be able to find it again. Point is they did break it down by genre rather than just collectively as sci-fi or fantasy. And I remember it as everything outside of romance novels where covers were completely irrelevant outside of extreme cases where the cover looks like some sort of babies first deviant art work. Funnily enough they did mention that 3d rendered artwork also had no negative or positive bearing on purchases.
That's what made me remember that article in the first place btw.

>>16672423
sticky

is "the star fraction" good

>>16668859
If you're referring to the read order one, it's bullshit. You read the books in publication order or you don't bother. Read order is cope for people who think there's a way to make a long series "easier" to understand.

>>16671375
Malazan is a series that requires a lot more active reading, I would say. Because there's not a lot of hand holding and you have to be keeping track of details to put stuff together. Eventually you do get enough information to figure out what's going on, but you have to be paying attention to get there.

>I don't mind it jumping around to all the characters and it's not hard to follow,
That's because you're still on book one. That point mainly refers to the shift between books, which often take place on different continents with entirely separate casts of characters.

>>16671621
>kindle
There's your answer. E-book faggots don't care about covers because it's just a jpg that they probably won't have to look at more than a couple times. A physical book that occupies space in your home needs a nice cover because you'll be seeing it a lot.

What is absolutely essential for my story in order for it to be the greatest fantasy series of the modern era?

I feel like multi layered political intrigue is the big thing most readers desire.

>>16672964
if its really the greatest, nobody will read it because it isn't appealing to a lowest common denominator
maybe in 10 years people will discover it

>>16672964
Write it in Old English, but with modern sensibilities.

>>16672964
If it were that easy to figure out what will resonate with the current zeitgeist it wouldn't be hard to become a bestselling author. People mostly stick to what is familiar to them, even when they're trying to innovate.

>>16672964
How do you measure greatest? Best selling? Good luck finding the magic formula, people have been trying forever to figure out the surefire way to write a bestseller. If you mean most influential, you might even live long enough to see your work's influence realized. It can take time for that to happen.

>>16672328
>t. fun hating edgelord faggot

>>16672927
Are you blind? That book has a paperback edition.

>>16673043
You like Marvel films and graphic novels don't you?

>have over 700 posts to read to "catch up" with the chat
I don't know if I want to continue with sffg any longer.

>>16673225
You don't. Farewell and good luck. You go where we cannot follow.

>>16673251
Outside?

Whoever recommended lyonesse that shit was pretty good

/sffg/, give me something worth reading

>>16673344
Only you should decide that.

>>16673344
Read bakker

>>16673344
My diary

>>16665692
>Earth Abides

There was something about that ending I really enjoyed even if it was essentially a depressing one from our POV.

>>16672913
Malazan's deal is that it's actually NOT character driven and this is what drives people up the wall when they try reading it because most are looking for instantly relatable characters. Malazan goes through entire casts like tissues.

>>16673344
Chateau Cascade.

>>16668083

Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy: A bastard prince trains as an assassin, forms a magic bond with a wolf, and has to help a blonde queen save her kingdom from zombielike armies. Also has dragons sprinkled in.

>>16673065
I'm not averse to Marvel movies and I've read maybe half a dozen graphic novels in my life. I've also read the Malazan books and most of the Prince of Nothing. Garth Nix is one of my favorite authors and I relish well made YA novels.
How about you rain-cloud?

We beat the trannies bros.

The discord trannies were defeated and will languish in their discord tranny pits of despair.

They'll gargle the E and cry about our T.

bros I am really enjoying Dune Messiah so far. lots of political intrigue and shit this time around.

How do I read Sanderson's work without paying for it?

>>16673648
No, Rosey is still shilling his shit >>16673446

>>16673770
dont bother

>>16668083
Depends on what you like about asoiaf. Grrm also has sci fi books, I enjoyed most of them, but most are not about intrigues.

>>16673802
Huh? I just like the book, schizo.

Does this series have dragons, knights and fairies in it?

>>16673988
Discord tranny go home.

>>16674028
it's absolute kino it has all but dragons.

>>16674028
Yes. It even has magic mirrors. Not sure if I remember dragons, but it had many mythological creatures.
One interesting aspect for me me was the "magic system", in how wizards and witches came to exist, not referring to not power levels or elemental crap you'd find in Sanderson or an RPG.

>>16674043
Take your meds please I am worried you are going to hurt yourself or others

>>16674309
Dilate.

>>16666216
so excited about watching this soon. finally got a 4k release on iTunes. One of my all time fave movies.

are the barsoom books good

>>16673358
>>16668208
Anyone care to provide reasons I should bother to read this autist’s copious tomes? I’ve heard his books read like the ramblings of a Dungeon Master sperglord on LSD.

>>16674421
Haven't read them, but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say yes.

>>16674400
Dilate

>>16664353
Any tips for a retard who really wants to tell a story?
Not really interested in it being commercially viable, just want to get my ideas out there, but I do want it to be the best it can be.

>>16674462
You can only copy others, Rosey.

>>16674457
alright well why do you guess that

/sffg/, why do all my new novel ideas feel so soulless?

>>16674480
It's made by the creator of Tarzan, and I liked the Disney movie when I was a kid.

>>16674488
maybe because you don’t have a soul, or at least haven’t figured out how to write like you have one...?

>>16674488
how the fuck are we going to answer this without knowing what your ideas are
they're probably too derivative, idk

>>16674520
the book idea I'm complaining about is a sequel to my previous book, which was about a group of kids living a nonsensical and inhospitable fantasy world going on a quest to find a way home. Spoiler alert: they fail, but they find the supplies they need to survive long-term.

The sequel is about those same four kids being flung to the far corners of the fantasy world and trying to reunite as the world starts to break apart around them

>>16674504
Based retard logic

>>16674507
I certainly had a soul before. I wonder what made me lose it: the soul-crushing job, the soul-crushing depression or the soul-crushing political collapse of my home country

>>16671545
I'm still recovering from the Dark One's choice of weapon in the second book when Rand came at him with an energy sword. A goddamn stick. Incredible. Simply incredible.

Just started Wheel of Time because I dont want to be >that guy who likes fantasy but hasnt read X
No clue what /lit/ consensus is - is this book as good as it's hyped up to be?

Ok this slaps

>>16674631
I haven’t read them either but the “consensus” here is that they stink. Not sure if that’s genuine or regular 4chan contrarianism. I’m going to read the first book or two to give it a shot, but any series that has that many books in it is going to be questionable in the long run imo

>>16674636
Don't you think it would punch twice as hard if it were half as long, though?

>>16674631
Lord of the Rings but influenced by the desperation, paranoia, and chaos of the Vietnam/Cold War (which Robert Jordan fought in) rather than the First World War. A widescreen, high-budget, epic fantasy nervous breakdown.

Chapter 5 of the first book will ultimately determine if it's the series for you.

>>16674626
Was asking myself this exact point-for-point question earlier today. God bless 4chan.

>>16674631
/Lit/ consensus is that all fantasy is crap and you should read Ulysses or something like that
/Sffg/ consensus is fucked since more than 90% of responses about the book will be from people who didn't read it and are just parroting points they heard
Most people who've read them say they're enjoyable, though the commitment is pretty big.

>>16674636
>>16674654
>World War 2
>make the Japanese the good guys
"Season 2" was an utter travesty. Goddamn.

>>16674631
I'm right there with you man. I'm on Book 3 at the moment. The second book was even better than the first, and I'm about halfway through book 3 and enjoying it.

>>16674661
Thanks mate, I just bought it today and just finished the opening and prologue and it's very...wordy I guess. I think I can make it to chapter 5, hopefully I like it, I haven't gotten into any series past the usual so shit like Malazan and Dresden Files are alien to me, but I want to see what the hype is about with WoT


>>16674647
I hope its good but if it's shit, it's shit

>>16674664
Season? What are you some kind of fucking Jew?

>>16674677
The early ones are supercharged. That's what makes the mid-series collapse so utterly disheartening.

>>16674689
>mid series collapse
The what

>>16674437
I was just re reading a snippet from the end of TTT heading back home from work.
Dude. These fucking books are so fucking cool. I don’t care much about genre in fantasy, as long as it’s good, and the books are good. Great. It’s a shame to hell they’re not more popular, and I only care about its popularity so it can get more fan art, and mainly so he can get the gumption and make some more books. If he wants.
But fuck man. Really some of the best shit I’ve read.
Some times he speaks in Canadian, I get that, but it’s cool. I’ve never encountered prose like his. Some of the scenes he describes with it will forever stick in my mind. Idk.

I’m very drunk btw excuse my rambling diary post.

Here’s this too, I was reading like 5 books at once, having a miserable time before I started Bakkers shit, started Bakkers shit, spent the next month eating through his 7 books like it was nothing and even then I wanted more and was very sad when there wasn’t. Now that I’m done I just want to do it again. I tried starting Malazan, and dude I can’t. Idk man. Fuck me im ahitted. I wish I was a millionaire and could give this blonde fuck my money. The books mogg dude. Mogg

>>16674677
I'm almost done with the third one as well, and while I'm also enjoying the novel, I was expecting more Rand in a book titled The Dragon Reborn. I did not expect 20 chapters of it to be...basically this.

>>16674421
A Princess of Mars is amazing. Not sure about the others

>>16674723
based schwasted bakkerposter

>>16674621
sounds like drifting classroom

>>16674488
At least you can make 'em. I was sketching out a sci-fi comedy adventure series on-and-off for the last couple of years, but the glut of "man-child morons with a spaceship" stories like Final Space, Space Bandits, Space Junkies, that new Star Trek thing, and Sam Sweetmilk (among others) have kinda forced me to shelve it until the genre is a little less saturated with MCU Guardians of the Galaxy clones

Rex Nihilo's probably the best out of the bunch though. Give that a read.

>>16674806
it was inspired by a lot of things but I think the two biggest influences were probably the Underland Chronicles and Homestuck. The first book was more similar to the former but the latter is a bigger influence on the second.

I think part of what bothers me about the second idea is the story is becoming more non-linear and disconnected. I didn't want to write another adventure novel exactly the same as the first, but this is feeling more like I took a copy of the same story, broke it apart, and threw all the pieces on the floor with no real clear goal besides a theme of Kintsugi and the idea that I want to end with a kaiju battle

>>16674631
I'm with you. Halfway through book 4. I'm gonna have to disagree with >>16674661. Even if you don't like chapter 5, you might hate book 1 and like books 3, 4, etc.

>>16674907
Youre not writing a story then, you're writing an outline without bullet points and a lot more words. You need to know who your characters are, imagine them in day to day situations and how they'd interact with things, what impact their personal histories might have on how they move through life. Then, dump your characters into your world and act like a GM and just start throwing shit at them until they start going where you need them to go.

I must have gone through several dozen half drafts of various stories before I realized I was too focused on describing a world, or building some cool magic system, rather than telling a story. Story isn't up to us, it's up to the characters to decide what the story's gonna be.

I'm a bit biased though. I'm currently writing a fantasy horror where a group of expendables embark on a suicide mission to a fantasy land to assassinate an elf king, character guidance is crucial there

>>16674970
Well, I stand by Rand’s dad revealing his sword prowess before having to be all but dragged by his son to the village miles away with no guarantee that his poisoned body will survive the journey as the pair are being stalked by monsters is one of the best dramatic beats in the series; and a pretty good yardstick if WoT’s mixture of fantasy, drama, action, and horror will be to the reader’s liking.

>>16675081
part of the problem is, I've had some issues seeing the whole picture at once, and in the process of thinking about this sequel and understanding what the characters would naturally do, I've had to iron out a bunch of plot holes, change the ending like three times, and basically wrap up every character arc in the first book with a neat little bow. The story's not done with the main characters, but the main characters are done with it, and the only ways I can think to continue their characters arcs are shitty.

Like, look at my main character. His whole thing was that his high expectations and low self-worth meant he felt he needed to prove his worth and do everything by himself. In the end he does prove himself a dozen times over but also learns a lesson about accepting help. Where do you go from there? Well, for him, the next stage would be left feeling unsatisfied and unfulfilled after his victory. Yeah, he did all that cool stuff, but that was over a year ago, what has he accomplished lately? Make him start questioning if he's lost his touch, or lost his purpose, and he needs to prove himself again? It feels like only two directions I can go in are "try and recapture the magic" or "wallow in depression", the ultimate goal of which being the realization that the MC never needed to prove himself in the first place, giving way to a different member of the main cast who has her own direction to grow in.

>>16675224
I agree the first few chapters are fantastic, tense and culminate perfectly in chapter 5, but it isn't necessarily a measure of the rest of the series. I sincerely wish the whole series was as well written as those few chapters but a lot of the other pov characters are extremely boring and some subplots (book 5 spoiler): Nynaeve and Elayne joining the circus are pure retardation.
So while chapter 5 is definitely a great reader hook I say it's pretty difficult to dislike it and that makes it a poor gauge of whether people will enjoy the rest

>>16673058
Which is not the main edition of the book. Amazon's advertising it as "kindle edition". In fact most low effort books are sold as ebooks now and they don't even bother with paperbacks anymore. It's actually a real problem for fantasy now. I love trade paperbacks but so often they discontinue trade paperbacks and only sell hardback and ebook versions.

>>16673421
It has a lot of great characters though. I guess if you're the kind of person that gets too attached and can't bear to see characters die or move on it'd be hard, but I've never had that problem.

>>16675321
NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE A HECKIN MIRACLEARINOO NOT A HECKIN UNEXPLAINARINOO

>>16675261
Ah, I see. Sorry. I misunderstood.

>>16675307
So? The book has a paperback with the same cover. Would it kill you to click and pick the paperback?
The cover on either edition will look like shit because the writer did the artwork himself lmao
https://www.artstation.com/tharcion

I will seriously never get why anyone would submit themselves to these random almost self published hacks.
Like, how many red flags do you need to stay away from this sort of books?
>Niall Teasdale is a computer programmer who has been writing fantasy and sci-fi since the age of fifteen.

>>16674437
World building is probably the best I've ever read. Well thought out, totally engrossing, explains enough without loredumping ass pulls every book. It is very dense and does nothing to keep you informed of plot beats, so ADDled zoomers need not apply.

>>16674631
>>16674677
dont listen to these people, its super fucking boring and he spends hundreds of pages doing nothing at all with his characters until the last 50 pages all of a sudden theres a big fight where rand gets super powers and fights someone off for a bit then it ends. the women are unbearable as well

Now that I think about it, the Test of Humanity at the start of the first Dune book was totally pointless. I thought it was going to be some sort of chekhov's gun for later in the story, but it wasn't. It's one of the most iconic parts of Dune and it was completely pointless.

Does it at least ever come up again in the later books?

>>16675424
It’s supposed to make you doubt that Paul’s mother can protect him (since, y’know, what happens to Leto later), shows the ruthlessness of the order she is associated with, and displays the protagonist’s grit by the standards of the culture he is part of. Just a primer chapter, inoffensive and well done as you said

>>16675321

>>16674710
bro you don't know about the mid-series slump that the Wheel of Time is shit all over for? Books 7-9 are complete shit, my man. 10 is aight, but it doesn't get great again until 11 and 12, when more of Jordan's stuff comes back and Sanderson's prose is only weaved in.

>>16675434
I guess I just don't really understand the point of the test. I guess it's kind of meant to test a bene gesserit's willpower, but Jessica in the third book also says ""We Bene Gesserits were already cautious to make sure that the children we raised were human and not animal."

I figure "animal" is just a metaphor, but what the fuck kind of idiot would fail such an easy test?

Any good barbarian fiction recommendations? I quite liked Kane, by Karl Wagner, although he was only nominally a barbarian.

>>16674437
I unironically like them. They're depressing but interesting.

>>16673770
You can pirate all ebooks at irchighway #ebooks

>>16675768
I can’t believe the dude who wrote these was pals with an effete sad sack like Lovecraft

>>16669150
>>16669229
>>16669321
So I've continued reading and am around 300 pages in, still not liking it although it smoothly. I am just annoyed by the writing, it feels like I am reading Harry Potter. I hate how everytime they do something their teachings or trainings are mentioned. Not shit sherlock, I know they're trained in this or that, no need to repeat it every single time.

>>16675834
I read it last as a teenager, I don't remember much, but I thought it was very cool then. I remember that the notion that he takes over the world because his super desert soldiers are so much better than all the other soldiers, even though there is an entire universe of people out there??? was suspicious. Those are spoilers beyond where you read btw.

>>16675876
I guess I had bigger expectations because it's so praised, and therefor I disappointed myself. The behaviour of the characters and their 400iq thoughts are just off putting to me. Maybe it will start getting interesting now Paul and the Fremen are together.

>>16675887
it's just a flavor of scifi where all the characters are basically objects or machines. I like it, more time for worldbuilding less time for fussy characterizing.

>>16667364
cheburashka is named after a family friend of ours since she always fell when skating on ice
Source: gramps was a screenwriter for nu pogodi

>>16675901
can you give an example of the worldbuilding? so far it's just been repetitive introductions to different factions/cultures. nothing really in depth or special. I assume there will be more new things now that they're in Fremen hands.

>>16674631
At first, the fact that the horses in those books never seem to poop broke my immersion, but then I realized...that's just part of the fantasy, isn't it? Wishful thinking. Horses would be so much more elegant and less awful if that didn't poop and piss with such volume.

>>16675768

Hey /lit/ help me find some good sci-fi
Preferably like this, image related.

Not YA like Sanderson or shallow as fuck like The Expanse.

>>16676149
Y'know that movie Argo?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izesw6cFVCo

>>16676149

>>16667979
>batshit
Iron Dragons Daughter
The Dark Tower, especially books #2, #3, #5 where King is hamming it up to 11
Ubik by PKD
Childhoods End, mostly the third act
It Hurts (webcomic) no spoilers, it's not that long just try it
Lathe of Heaven

>>16667979

>>16676288
>The Incel

Of course you like it, Anon.

>>16676296

>>16675321
Dead giveaway

>>16668083
Price of thorns

>>16668083
Don’t listen to >>16668208 this guy.

I only say this because you’re not ready for Bakker If your just finishing ASoIaF and abocombrie.

Whatever sff reading list you got, put it way in the back.

I made the mistake of reading it fairly early on and it has ruined every other fantasy since then.

>>16676398
For me it’s pic related

>>16676305
i don't remember this scene from the Incal, in which volume is it?
also it is an incredibly based comics, my father had the whole collection and I would read it secretly at night because the naked ladies made my pp go hard, this were good times before pornography and my fear of intimacy

>>16665527
this

>>16676398
yeah bakker isn't realy similar to asoiaf. Speaking of both

>>16676355

is a nuke showing up in fantasy one of the best tropes or what?

>>16673802
Who the fuck is "Rosey"

>>16676514
Rosey is a known discord tranny that shills his novel Chateu Cascade in these threads.

>>16668083
Anthony Ryan : Blood Song

I’ve read everything everyone here has mentioned, read this, that prince of thorns, the other shit, then obviously read second apocalypse last.

>>16676561
The book says it was written by someone named "Dusty Ridgeman". It sounds like you're making things up... could you be a discord tranny who is mad at the author for some reason?

>>16676485
Broooooo hahah are you me?
I fancy my self a based chad and I loved that part in PoT I was like waaaahhh oh shit ooohhh fuck ruuunnnn
But my brother who’s actually a based chad thought it was retarded Lmao.
I don’t really care about the science or any gay shit like that, that scene was based.

>>16675498
I just finished Book 3 and greatly enjoyed it. Felt like a clean yet chaotic end. Am I better off just stopping here and imagining what follows?

>>16676398
Kellhus is a mary sue, something you wont find in asoiaf.

>>16677101
Based Mary Sue baiter

>>16676149
Do people unironically think Sanderson only writes YA novels or something?

>>16677173
You mean he doesn't? I can't even imagine how he could write anything other than YA.

>>16677130
>can literally predict everything while also being the worlds best fighter

>>16677201
he's totally overpowered, that doesn't make him a mary sue. A mary sue is a morally perfect person, who never makes mistakes or if they do it makes them look good (ex they were too trusting or something)

Kellhus is a monster, and he makes mistakes and loses

>>16677233
Still, you wont find one dimensional "overpowered" characters like that in ASOIAF.

>>16677245
one is high fantasy the other isn't

>>16677191
There's the Legion novellas for example.

I see Sapkowski has a new book out, did he get better/get a better translator since the witcher books?

They kinda fell flat for me once he got to the novels

>>16677403
>>16677245
Yeah there are working theories that there isn’t even magic in asoiaf

I know I know don’t look at me I’m just the messenger. Watch Preston Jacobs stuff if your interested

>>16677245
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGMV60wBm4

>>16676459
Before the Incal. A prequel that greatly fleshes out DiFool and shows how he became such a bitter and evasive person, contextualizing his actions (and lack thereof) in The Incal. Although, it's a perfectly fine tale on its own. Reading it is necessary for understanding who two of the major characters in Final Incal are though.

>>16677233
>Kellhus is a monster
That’s such the reddit take.

You can look at it in a lot of ways but here’s 2:
Childhood is thinking woah kellhus is cool he’s like the coolest guy
Reddit middle age is moooo he’s the heckin antagarino poor akka
Old man wisdom is kellhus is a chad, he did what he has to do

You can also look at it in bull curve meme format which is honestly just the same thing

I don’t know what I’m talking about I’m sorry but I’m also right

actual wisdom is realising bakker didn't write a coherent story

>>16677603
based coherency poster

>>16677544
Kek

>>16677598
he literally kills some random baby/child in the first book

>>16677641
No he didn’t

>>16677603
No you’ve just failed to grasp the absolute.

How embarrassing.

Reading through Worm it's pretty similar to Cradle in terms of how it's paced and the character driven and action heavy writing. Not to mention dreadgods are basically the endbringers.

Anything with a similar feel to these? I don't really care what the setting is in the slightest or if it's sci-fi or fantasy, just the general style of writing.

>>16677717
Confessions of a D-List Supervillain
Soon I Will Be Invincible
Superfolks
How to Succeed in Evil

>>16677659
chapter 14 of the first book, some random kid sees them and they are worried he's going to give away their position so cnauir and kellhus chase him down and kill him

>>16677717
Grant Morrison's Zenith and (maybe) ZOT!

>>16664877
Lost interest in Feist years ago when he started having meaningless continuity errors. I think I liked the 4 books about the serpants invading the best out of his books.

>>16668070
No but I'm looking forward to it.

>>16677529
i think the translation is done by the same guy. i posted the cover here a few days ago and a polishbro said that the translation wasn't good.
from what I've read this is his best series and i feel the same about the witcher saga, a great start, a slog by the middle and an absolutely atrocious ending. I'm still curious about this one though. need to download it soon

>>16677771
>>16677806
Are these actually similar in how they're written to Worm/Cradle or mainly that they're about superheroes? If anything not being about superheroes would be preferable, just looking for something that's well done in terms of pacing, characters, action and a tightly written plot without a bunch of dead ends.

>>16677567
thanks I'll check it out, too bad it wasn't made by Moebius

>>16677947
True. But it's still rather swell.

>>16677933
Wow. With a tone (and the personality it implies) like that, you'll definitely enjoy How to Succeed in Evil:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-succeed-in-evil-the-novel/id309010761

>>16677717
Ze Tian Ji
It's much similar to those than the standard xianxia which goes heavy on one character being an unkillable god from early on.

>>16677826
Serpentwar Saga was the last really enjoyable set from him in his Midkemia setting, in my opinion. But even that sort of falls apart toward the end, it's mostly the first two books of it I really liked.

>>16677777
??? So how is that kid random? Kellhus killed him because he had to to maximize his odds of survival. By any rational system that kid is now his enemy, not some random kid. Can't believe quints were wasted on this shit take
>>16677201
That just makes him powerful. Despite all his abilities it takes months of manipulation, sermons, and fabricated miracles to take control of the Holy War. If he just showed up and said "follow me lmao" and they all did, that would be Mary Sue. Using his capabilities and the results following through logically is just normal causality which I know women and trannies usually have trouble with

>>16674636
For me, its Drood.

Did I get filtered, or is this just Reddit’s idea of edge? There are a few things I like, such as the setting and the nuke cache, but the main character reads like a power fantasy OC for The Hunger Games. Worst of all, the main character is boring. He’s supposed to be irredeemable, but after being on here for over a decade, he seems too tame.
>did I get filtered?

>>16676605
https://rosecrypto.com/
> Buy my new book "Chateau Cascade" via the above link

The tranny uses an alias.

>>16678293
yes, it's literally a plot point that he's an edgelord

>>16678302
That sucks. I really enjoyed the bit with the AI being thought of as a spirit. How is Prince of Fools? Is it any better?

>over 900 posts to read to catch up with sffg
procrastination is suffering

>>16678419
Your existence is suffering.

>talking about Kellhus like he's a person
Her barely got had an ego, he only gained needs and wants because he broke

>>16678293
I never thought he was bad at all. What does he do that’s edgy? Kill an insubordinate member of the clan? After that he just does a bunch of cool shit and shit a 14 yr old stud who’s had a fucked up life will do.
And we literally learn that he’s being made extra edgy by that wizard guy, whomst he kills, and becomes more of a normal guy.

Yes you’ve been filtered. It’s a cool series

>>16678362
Dude I’m begging you keep reading, you’re liking all the parts I was liking so it’s safe to assume you are me. Only difference is I read it before there was even an opinion on it, and I was chasing tail in college. Tldr, I thought it was gangster, while you’re having literal virgins who’ve never left their dungeon tell you that a character who’s not saving babies from ebil monsters is edgy. FINISH THE SERIES
FINISH THE SERIES
only then do I give you permission to read PoF

Recommend me cheesy fantasy novels.

>>16678615
are we even reading the same book?

>>16678293
Jorge only seems really edgy if you've never read edgy fantasy before. He's driven by vengeance and ambition but he's just a scared angry kid at his core. So many people get filtered by the first book because they hear "oh this series is super edgy it's so dark dude" but that's not even what it's about. Anybody who reads this for edge will probably be confused because Jorge doesn't have the emotional profile or behavior of a true edgelord and this only becomes more and more true as the series goes on and he matures.

>>16678692
sanderfag

>>16678692
Mogworld

>they keep shilling Prince of Thorns
>they can't even remember all his edgy moments
Don't fall for the meme.

>>16679148
the series has its moments but I'd give it a 2 out of 5. ass puling is strong with this one.

>>16678692
litrpg

>>16676712
Read until Book 6, senpai, then decide. Those first 6 are something else entirely, honestly. Pay attention to Rand.

>>16679356
>read at least 6,000 pages first, then hopefully sunk cost has set in by then

>>16679364
Are you intimidated, young man?

>>16679394

>>16679397
Put some effort in faggot