/lit/ - Literature

>>16620411

I did not respond with the emoticon. Your joke landed loud and clear.

Are there any online resources for writing characters, some kind of list of examples such as likes, dislikes, ideals, strengths, flaws, etc...
Just something to try and springboard ideas off of. I've seen something like this for making NPCs for tabletop rpgs.

>>16619621
I don't believe there is. My project would likely be classified "erotic fiction," though the eroticism is only a theme.
Here's a pastebin
https://pastebin.com/FiThxs5a

I'm especially fond of my descriptions of "the Beast." Not included in the excerpts:
>A talkative, empty-headed girl. She’s aced every class, skipped two grades, and has accrued a litany of commendations and extracurricular accolades while doing so. She is living proof that even an academic genius can be a complete dullard.
>I am not a short person- I was always a little tall for my age- but I’m hopelessly dwarfed by Allie, a titan of the lacrosse team. She’s a dreadfully boyish harpy.
>She stood up and stretched. Her lithe, athletic form bent easily to her whim. She bowed down to try her hand at opening the window. Her body made a perfect right angle, back and bare legs kept rigidly straight.

>>16619176
I'm the circle jerk guy

>>16620822
There's literally assloads of generators of all shapes and sizes on this site. Should help you out

https://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/

Douglas often forgot to count himself among the living. Things like car accidents or kidney failure didn’t happen to him. He had never lost a daughter. There had never been blood in his stool. On turbulent aircrafts, he was usually asleep. When he was diagnosed with skin cancer, it was removed the following month without any complications, and it sounded very strange to hear the receptionist call his name off a list.
So, when his father eventually died, it came as a shock (even if the old man had been at the right age, of the right sort of patiently declining health, visited at his bed side, and appropriately fare welled). Douglas required consoling, and he was upset to learn that well-wishers were usually good for a single wish before their day got on… most his age had also lost a parent (they always said) and by I know how you feel he felt they meant You’ll get over it soon. Even Jen had said that much when she made a light joke about them being slowly orphaned together, with only a pair of batty mothers left to go. But she was used to being flippant about her father (and other things); she was among the living in that way, and had even been quarantined in a hospital wing as a girl with gastroenteritis.
In the week that followed, Douglas began to feel as though he was in the early noon of a long, unbroken day. Sleep didn’t erase him in the way it used to, and his morning routine seemed to play out along side itself in several identical streams. Six hands made the coffee. Eight turned the taps in the shower. Thoughts the same as yesterday sang the same tune at the same time as if they were hung there to be passed. The news from his mother said that the funeral would be on Thursday, then Friday, she thought about Saturday, and settled (that morning) on Thursday... it was a relief to have the date set, at least, and he dreamed occasionally after that, only slight images of himself and others standing in line, but he still woke with a clear memory of them as from a moment ago, or the moment he had fallen asleep.

critique my cadence... i can't get it off high school essay mode or precocious/smug oral presentation. want my voice to be more relaxed and authoritative as the narrator.

>>16620825
good god, it's a giantess fetishfag

>>16620825
i like your writing
they make me feel emotions

>>16620822
I've got this. Not sure if it's what you're looking for.
docdro.id/FZhYbDv
I made it many years ago based on my learnings about screen and stage writing. It's served me pretty well.

>>16620944
You reminded me that I don't have plans to write anything about bare feet and soles yet. I'll keep this in mind as I continue.

>>16620947
thanx u fren

feedback pls

>>16620997
You deserve the rope

>>16621043
tell yourself that's how I'll die. auto-erotic asphyxiation. that would be a fitting end, wouldn't it?

>>16621030
impeccably visual. i like it

>>16621030
;_; poor little boy

I've been writing outside for 30 minutes every day for the last several days, and now I have fucking blisters and rashes on my arms. I should have never left the house

>>16621030
A tier prose. How long have you been writing?

>>16621030
Pretty good. My only critique would be that a couple phrases are a little archaic, but other than that it's solid enough

>>16620935
Seemed fairly neutral and relaxed to me. Simple, painless to read. Good job, I guess. Then again, it'd be a pretty huge problem if you couldn't pull it off consistently for even such a short passage.

>>16621030
too many flowers, be meaner with speed or the thing will die

>>16620935
too many telegraphic sentences and no rhythm to disrupt

>>16620825
yeah I'm not reading your erotica


Here's a paragraph I don't hate as much as the rest of them (tear me apart etc):

He was killed in suspicious circumstances, ambushed in a courtyard several blocks from his home. The occasion of his death has remained unclear, and time has only further obscured its particulars. The historians have since made him out to have been one of this country’s great artists and now his sonnets regularly appear in freshman syllabi. Both sides of the current revolution claim him as one of their own while another camp, usually the anarchists, claim that his contempt for both sides of the political process indicate that he was among their ranks. No one can say what Walter Rudin’s politics truly were, or whether they figured at all in his work. One is pleased to find, despite whatever superimposed ideology, that his pieces are usually nonetheless syntactically sound and that they produce seemingly consistent results. In this way his poetry functions as unassuming equation, each seemingly non-political word a context-cropped-variable awaiting application. All his work was drowning in such patience, in the uncertainties that plagued his life. There were those who claimed he came from abroad when he was very young, from a country that spoke a latin language with an accent of which he was never quite able to rid himself—that he wrote, even in his mathematical percussion, with an abandon more characteristic of centuries past. But I know the truth about Walter Rudin and his dreamy poetry, I know because I saw him once under streetlamp not so far from the financial district, and I saw the bundle of creased papers in his arms and I shuddered under the drunken weight of his eyes as they fell onto me. I remember a new darkness and I remember the the chipped softness of his lips, and the way he ran his hands through my hair in the morning and bunched it in a fist like I was a handful of sand.

Here's the first page of a little story I'm in the progress of writing. Thoughts? I'm wondering a bit about use of a phonetic dialect in the story (is it abusive? is it too much? does it make the reading less enjoyable? harder? or does it add to the experience?)

>>16622383
Yeah, it's fairly annoying. I'm not even gonna read that.

>>16622383
Written dialects are always incredibly annoying, I don't know why people insist on inflicting this on the reader.

any feedback is welcome. tried going for a semi childish voice.

>>16621030
pretty solid. nice touch on the "young man". kinda slow, though, even if worth it in the end.

>>16620935
i can't help but feel that a lot of fat can be cut from this. then again you could say the same for mine.

>>16622383
Ignore the first two replies, I think this is great :). Only thing I'd go for is more Proustian remembrances and analogies, but, alas, I'm a Proust fanboy. Read Tristram Shandy, if ye havn't, to get more of a feelfor the words they used back then. Best of luck,anon.

How do I write more convincing male characters? I get the feeling that they always end up acting either too effeminate or I go too hard on the other direction and characterize them as stereotypical macho men with no nuance.

>>16622940
Will you marry me

>>16622943
Answer the question and I'll consider it.

AI Anon here. This is what my captchas look like now. What is going on?

>>16622940
Maybe the problem is that you are thinking about writing all men and not a character anon. There can be macho men and effeminate men and they have their own stories and uses. If you have a character in mind or a use for a character in mind you can post a description of that and I can help, but writing all men eralistically in one perosn is impossible.

>>16622999
Nice trips. It's just just a character, it's the impression I get from viewing all of them combined. I wrote from the first person of a taxi driver and tried making him coarse and such, but I think it ended up too stereotypical. When I wrote a couple of friends having a chat I thought I'd include in some sex jokes and avoid physical contact to make it seem more "natural". Then I realized that I might be stereotyping again and tried to write something without thinking so much about apperances, only to then realize that I could switch the characters' genders no problem and that it reminded me of conversations I've had with other girls rather than something I've ever seen two men talking about. Maybe I'm being too self conscious about it and it's all just in my head.

>>16623014
Feel free to leave a pastebin or an image or to copy paste something that you want looked at. I'm here to critique and I prefer to start with someone who is active in the thread instead of someone who might not see it. Getting eyes on the page and critical opinion is one of the best ways to improve, which is why I'm here. If anyone else has something they want looked at right now drop a notice and I'll get to that next.

>>16623051
I'd have to translate it, as I write in Spanish.

>>16622987
What the fuck

>>16620782
I posted in the other writing gen should I just use this one instead?

>>16623061
You could translate over a part of it that you think is indicative of the larger issue. I'm just looking for some way to help you out. If you want to ask about something more specific about one of those characters you could do that as well. I'll be here a while. I'm supposed to be doing research today, but the class sucks so I'm procrastinating.

>>16623080
Which poster are you anon, and how can I help you out?

>>16623086
I posted about how I was thinking of writing a short story about a dark fantasy setting. I was using this picture for some inspiration. I started an outline and I'm kind of just playing around with ideas at this point. I should probably start writing out the story itself.

>>16620782
>Aristotle's Poetics
LOL enjoy your brain farts...worst overrated nonsense book ever

I suggest Schiller instead.

>>16623094
The first thing you can do is study the image in order to define the terms through which it engages the viewer. I'm assuming you like the picture itself and that you aren't talking about the text. In this case you could limit the 'color palette' of your short story. Look to the opening of Cormac's The Road for an example of a de-saturated palette. Really it's just limiting the amount of color present in your text. Literal, and not figurative, 'purple prose' in this case. The images and hues that you acknowledge in your text, especially those evoked through context, will guide the reader to create an image in their mind. This is imperfect however, and you will never be able to fully achieve the effect you want since we work in a non-visual medium. Best case scenario the story is published with a similar cover and that helps guide the reader in their imaginings.
Another way to help push the reader to feel what you feel and think what you want them to think is to measure out the feelings that the image evokes in you, so you can focus on pushing the reader towards those feelings instead of giving them an image and hoping they grope through the dark towards success.
Finally, you can explain to yourself the narrative that the image presents and determine what it is about it that appeals to you and move forward in your own presentation of a similar narrative. Think of it as setting the image in motion. When you look at these funny little goblins lit by torches marching over the mountain trail in the purple night, what do you see them doing next. Where are they going, what motivates them, and what conflict awaits them on the way, etc. etc.?
Hope this helps anon, thanks for the contribution. Good luck with your writing.

My protagonist was born to a bourgeoise family. For stupid reasons he runs away from home as a teenager and finds himself in a seaside town, where his maternal great-uncle is living alone as a fisherman. The two spend the summer together as fishermen on a small boat. Come fall the older man gets sick and dies. Our hero signs up as a sailor for two years. He finds the work overly harsh and feels the hazing to be utterly humiliating. Before the two years are up he gets into a fight and kills someone. To evade justice he joins the Foreign Legion. This he finds also to be too harsh and he tries to escape but fails and is sent to the desert to a penal company. Here his spirit is broken and he becomes little more than an automaton waiting for his service to end.
Eventually our hero finds his way to actual combat. After a while he finds an opportunity to fake his death and does so. An officially dead deserter he wanders around until he stumbles on an inn called The Rose of Arcadia. My story takes place in that inn. Everything I just said is just background for my character.
Your thoughts?

My suspicion that /lit/ and writefags in general are focusing too much on style and form rather than content is getting more and more confirmed with every thread i read on here.

Is that really all you got? Is it that hard to not become either ”i got this idea but i don’t know how to write” or ”everything is sub par compared to [insert random subjectively patrician augthor/philosopher]”?

Tl;dr - get idea, write it.

>>16623150
Wow that's really helpful. I'm saving that so I can refer back to this while I'm writing. Thanks a lot, I hadn't considered much of what you brought up.

>>16623154
Hope you're not going to infodump all of that on the reader, when it looks hardly even relevant.

>>16623154
Seems like a nice idea but is all of this background information just going to ve mentioned in passing or a prologue? Seems like a lot of info for just set up.

>>16623360
>>16623366
I was not planning to reference most of it at all, I just know that's the life he's lived.

>>16621030

I would remove the phrase "structural integrity" in first sentence. Too much of a stock phrase, which is cold, and removed me instantly from the rest of your imagery.

There are a few other redundant phrases as well, but overall it's enjoyable prose to read, which is an achievement for anyone.

>>16623194
What do you actually want, Mr Reddit?

>>16623051
i'd be grateful if you'd take the time to look at mine, man. it's 2,100 words so you can just take look at the second half if it's too long.
https://pastebin.com/jQfABf8g

>>16623371
I like the content itself. Depending on how you relay that info will be important but it seems like a character worth reading about. What is the general idea that happens during the story itself?

Thanks. A few years on and off, but I didn't get into reading much until this year, which has helped a great deal

>>16623409
Well my idea was that this person drifts into an abandoned inn. It wasn't abandoned long ago, it isn't derelict or anything. But people aren't there for whatever reason. He tries to make himself comfortable for the time being for lack of anything else to do or anywhere else to be (as his background explains) and another person enters just when he's rummaging around. This newcomer mistakes him for staff, and since he has nothing better to do he rolls with it.
The book would be part mystery (the protagonist trying to figure out why the place was empty in the first place and where everyone disappeared to) and part slice-of-life stuff of various travelers visiting the inn on the way to wherever they're headed.
The thing is I've figured out some of these people who would be doing the visiting but what I haven't figured out is the solution to the mystery itself so I haven't bothered to start writing yet.
I got this idea like two weeks ago after rereading a comic I like where the protagonist spends literal decades in a bar, first as a slush drunk and then taking over as the barkeep when everyone else leaves and he doesn't have anywhere to go.

>>16623476
You really like Cerebus, huh?
Started out great but once Sim started entwining his personal misogonistic and other toxic beliefs into the narrative it got nigh unreadable real quick.

>>16622383
>is it too much?
no. the first word was annoying but i'm glad that the rest of the piece had nothing like that anymore. i rather enjoyed it.

>>16620822
Not "online" but you can easily find the Writer's Thesaurus series. Here is an excerpt from the positive trait thesaurus.
https://b-ok.lat/s/The%20Writers%20Thesaurus
I'd say they are pretty good, but I only use them to consult something whenever I need it, not to springboard ideas off of.

>been writing on and off for years
>spent the last year taking it more seriously
>never read Agatha Christie
>that "I write like" thing has been giving me Agatha Christie since I found out about it
This is a weird feel, bros

>>16623528
I own all the books and have some of them signed. While Dave is an absolute lunatic I find I don't really have a problem with him.
I also recently read a scene in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen where the League is spending the night in an abandoned tavern (called the Bleak House, kek) so this idea has sunken itself pretty deep in me.

>>16623374

I want you guys to realise style is secondary to content/idea.

>my taste is objectively better

I know, i know...

>>16620782
>All screenwriters should be shot

Why?

>>16623566
Any writer worth their salt can shit out a story or two easily. What's hard is choosing what you really want or worth to write and how you execute the idea.

>>16623566
Ideas are worthless, everything has been done before. Execution is the only way to make your story stand out.

>>16623476
That seems like a nice idea. So he starts running this inn by himself off a whim. Does he eventually employ some other people once he realizes he needs staff?

>>16623663
Yes, an old lady who used to work as a midwife and abortionist ends up becoming the cook.

>>16623387
Alright anon, I'm back and I've read the entire story.

The first thing I want to mention is that the story has about 1 too many characters involved. Short stories should generally strive to be as concise as possible, and to achieve that you can often meld characters together. In this case I suggest the removal of the brother or the friend because they both play an antagonistic role for Raul. My suggestion is to move Jesse into Sammy instead of vice versa. I would normally suggest the opposite and have the conflict run closer to Raul, but the idea that they are both competing for their mothers limited resources makes Sammy becoming Jesse impossible. It could work if they were being bounced between divorced parents maybe, but then you would have another character (a father) to take into consideration. This way you can obscure the reality and the perception of Sammy's situation. Raul may believe that Sammy has a better life, but Sammy only has material goods. Maybe his parents aren't even rich, and are running themselves into debt. Maybe they are stealing. Maybe Sammy is stealing. This cranks up the guilt that Raul would have at the climax, when he realizes what his decisions have pushed others to do and what impact those decisions of his have. I could continue to elaborate on this if you want, but I'll leave it here for now.

I find the motif of 'Raul is smart' to not be generally compelling. Why? It is all 'tell' and now 'show'. If Raul is smart he will show it to us. If it is only that Raul believing he is smart than the results of his actions will tell us. It also forces the narrative turn of 'his mother gets him stuff when he does well in school' to come into conflict with itself. Would a poor woman wager material possessions against her sons success? Probably not. Maybe if this was an old arrangement, say she had a better job or a husband, and now she is trying to keep her word to her son. This could work. The problem is that 'Raul is smart'. He should be able to see this. If he sees this and continues with his demands the audience will hold no sympathy at all for him, and justifiably so. You want the audience to sympathize with your character by the way. It is a requirement in many cases. In this case it is the sympathy for a poor overachiever and the hope that he can overcome circumstances which makes us root for Raul. His failure to note the basic emotions and motivations of those around him cuts this short. If he were an autistic child it could work, but then you would be bordering cliche instead of playing with sensitive human revelations. The idea that this boy is going to learn something about human life is very Joycean. In the way Eveline learns Hamlet's lesson for example. Raul is going to learn several cascading human truths at a young age (BTW specify his age it will help readers place him developmentally). He learns that materiel goods aren't everything, compassion, guilt, consequence, and parental fallibility.
1/2

>>16622054
>The historians have since made him out to have been one of this country’s great artists
think something like
>historians make him out to [have] be[en] one....

>>16623684
That's interesting. I'm getting that this story is set in the past but what time period is it?

>>16623774
An undetermined time-period and an undetermined culture, but I would put it around the late 18th or early 19th century if I had to.
I'm really more interested in creating a certain mood rather than any level of historical accuracy. I'll probably make a setting consisting of completely fictional countries, honestly. That way people will more readily buy the possibility of supernatural explanations that many of the characters will offer for events and make the protagonists' unflinching belief in astrology feel less like absolute bullshit.
That's not saying I'm writing a full-on fantasy story here. More like a Borges-level magical realism type of thing at most.

>>16623387
>>16623704
2/2

Okay, here I'm going to talk about some sentence level revisions and after this if you want more comments or some clarifications you can ask and I'll add some more to my analysis, so don't worry if something you wanted to know about is addressed here.

In the sentence to sentence level writing you rely too much on explaining context and moving pace piece by piece. As you continue to write you will find that the audience will go great lengths to 'fill in the gaps' because they really only want one thing, which is essential to all story telling, "What happens next?" Give them that, and assuming they like the answer, they will be satisfied. Here is the first paragraph revised to contain its essential narrative material.
"Raul's mother made him a deal, if he got perfect grades he could ask for any one thing at the store. The first thing he had asked for was a bicycle. Now he wanted a fish."
Why these revisions? It follows a sequential narrative incline towards the protagonists main goal. He has realized that, using his intelligence, he can manipulate his surroundings. He has now moved beyond the purely material (bicycle) to a more serious responsibility (fish) which, poor thing, has been set up with Chekhov's gun to his head. Readers will quickly (only two movements) notice a pattern and understand that this story is about a child's insatiable desire for more, and his lack of responsibility. In terms of prose writing I have cut that 'he grew a liking for a pet fish' because his demand for a fish is predicated on it being something he would like to have. In similar fashion we don't need to know that 'Raul got full marks [a second time]" because we understand the pattern presented. He will get a perfect score, it is only a matter of explaining how his desire has grown.
While I'm on the topic of these revisions I should point out, in non-accusatory fashion, that I believe you are ESL. It is quite glaring in constructions such as 'he grew a liking for a fish' instead of the more common and logical 'he wanted a fish'. Despite this set back I think you have done well. It is noticeable, but not bad. If you roll these constructions into Raul being a foreign child speaking English or learning English in school then it could might elevate the narrative. It could just as easily fail though, so its up to you if you want to try that out or not. I'd advise against it for now as the story doesn't need more narrative complexity, and it isn't in first-person-POV so it won't be that characterizing of Raul.

I'm running out of characters here, sorry, so I'll cut it short at this. Feel free to ask for more if you want. Thanks for the contribution anon, good luck with your writing.

Just posted another genius blog post nobody will read. Are blogs a dying medium? Am I behind the times? Or do I simply not know how to build a following? I can believe that because I simply just post stuff out in the ether. Am I answering my own questions? Could be.

>>16623839
Are you plugging in your own work on Twitter?

>>16623704
>>16623812
thanks anon, you gave me a lot to think about. i appreciate it.

>>16623848
I post in on some other networks, but I hate Twitter. And that doesn't necessarily solve the problem of getting it out there starting with zero followers.

>>16623839
I thought it was all about Medium now. As long as your writing has viral appeal, of course.

>>16622987
Might be because you're using noscript captcha, which google doesn't like because they're easier and probably give them less precious data. The Clover app has a nice workaround, not sure if anything like that is available for desktop tho

>>16623612
It's a reference to something said by Peter Greenaway, a really great writer/director
https://archive.is/8Gwvq
>“This is probably a very unpopular thing to say,” the director Peter Greenaway has said, “but all film writers should be shot.”
>he complained that cinema was always going “back to the bookshop” for its content.
>We do not need a text-based cinema … we need an image-based cinema.”
He's credited himself as "writer" in his films before, so if the genocide actually happens, he'd probably have to shoot himself. I think the principal is correct, though. If you're writing for the screen, you can't write like it's a book.

>>16623804
That's a nice time period for what the mood you're going for it seems like. Will there be an emphasis on those fictional countries or is it more assumed that he's in a fictional country and just focuses on their lives?

>>16623910
Yeah, it’s funny how even blogs have become centralized.

>>16623462
Meant to reply to >>16621603

Morning gents. Reminder to do your best today and to stay cheerful.

Not sure how I feel about this. A short excerpt from a story taking place in Berlin. Going for an overlapping, disillusioning feel here. Transit is a major theme throughout the rest of the story, which focuses thematically on the disillusionment of modern, urban society and how different people cope with it, especially during travel.

>>16623910
Yeah I have a medium account. Viral to me is a code word for sensationalist, clickbaity, dishonest. At some point if you want to get read you have to adjust your principles and what you wish to say to what the reading masses clamor for. I'm just not sure how much I am willing to compromise.

>>16624177
The writing doesn't seem terrible, but you start a lot off sentences with "the."

At what point do you guys think doing background research becomes excessive? Naturally, I want to have my writing be accurate, but then I also start to wonder whether I'm using the research as a means of procrastinating from the actual work of writing.

>>16624057
No fuck you

>>16624262
Any research beyond "do medieval people have oil lanterns" and such is a waste of time

>>16624262
Depends. You should ask yourself, does the amount of research you do match the importance of that information in the work.

For example, spending months researching traditional wood carving because a side character's dad in your detective novella is a wood carver would be kinda overdoing it. But if you were writing an artisan's biography and aimed for a major publishing house to pick it up, it wouldn't be weird to spend more than a year for that.

>>16624349
https://youtu.be/Gl2cHxUvlv8?t=23

I've heard that some authors use writing as therapy, or that they canalize their own anxiety into their writings. Has anyone here ever done that?

>>16623647
>everything has been done before
And that's how you know someone's never writing something of interest

>>16623839
Make it a "video essay" and see it rack up them views

>>16623647
>ideas are worthless
>is trying to be a writer
How does one end up as such an imbecile in life lmao

>>16620782
When writing for fantasy that is not on earth, is it necessary to have a name for the world/land/planet or is it enough to have the setting different from earth enough to be obvious and just never mention it? Like sticking to settlement/town/city names.

>>16624442
To some extent. I don't know that it has worked as therapy for me in the sense that it's alleviated my problems, but it has given my suffering some sense of purpose. The only thing more terrible than suffering is meaningless suffering.

>>16624262
I've never had a problem with that before. None of my project have required much research, and the ones that did didn't require me to go too hard at it. I guess it helps to be constantly delving into creating while you research, so your work is always in the back of your mind, and your studies don't become glorified recreation.

>>16624442
I'm not sure it's something you do consciously, it just comes as a given when you're diving deep into your mind to create things.

>>16624602
I'm curious. It seems, and I could be wrong here, that you've grown to use your suffering as a source of fuel for the fires of your creativity. I've heard other artists say that suffering is only ever a negative influence on their work, and that maintaining peace of mind facilitates much better output. Do you have any thoughts on that?

>>16624503
>>16624515
Triggering the ideafags is so easy it's boring. Now, if I were to ask them to share their great ideas, they would of course refuse, because "someone might steal it!" and the idea is literally all they have. Meanwhile, a real writer is never afraid to talk about their ideas, because the actual meat of their work is in the delivery, which is impossible for anyone to steal or imitate.

>>16624705
I won't talk about my ideas on here because I don't want agents or publishers tracing it back to the evil neo-Nazi website.

>>16624705
My idea: You're a faggot
The execution: I hope soon

>>16624722
Pointless concern, considering they probably get dozens of identical genre fiction submissions every month.

>>16624750
Do you feel attacked? You sure are upset. Relax. It's just fun and games.

>>16620782
What is the modern day equivalent of being published in a magizine? I'm aware they still exist but for things like short stories are there places where you'd want them published. I'm just thinking long term goals.

>>16623647
Ideas aren't worthless but they are when thought up by idle hands. But even when you get shit done, ideas are still the prerequisite

>>16623194
Ideas come naturally. Style and form require patience and dedication to prefect.
tl;dr- get idea, write it, rewrite it, and rewrite it until it comes out looking passable

>>16623102
>this ancient philosopher who's had an influence on the totality of western thought since his death is far inferior to this guy who I'll look super smart and cool for name-dropping
why are redditors like this?

>>16624825
Getting your youtube video featured on the trending tab

what you use to write?

>>16618386
another day, another few hundred words

>>16624903
That's so fucking bad though. I'm thinking non video format.

>>16624687
>I'm curious. It seems, and I could be wrong here, that you've grown to use your suffering as a source of fuel for the fires of your creativity. I've heard other artists say that suffering is only ever a negative influence on their work, and that maintaining peace of mind facilitates much better output.

Perhaps you've heard that simple but effective dictum: Write what you know. I wouldn't say suffering is my only source of motivation, but it gives a shape and purpose to what I do. I might never have written about certain topics had I not experience their effects firsthand. As for it being a negative influence on work, or it affecting peace of mind—I'm not certain that peace of mind is necessary for creating great works. A person who is agitated may actually produce more than a person who is not (and there are plenty of examples of such people), but each person is different.

>>16624938
Jotterpad atm and google docs to transfer work between devices.
T.complete beginner

>>16620782
Any tips on helping others with writing? I've been proofreading an article my friend wrote and a book my girlfriend is working on and I find it hard to make suggestions outside of grammar, spelling, punctuation, and differences of opinion.
If it helps, my friend's article is on the economics of video game consoles and my girlfriend's book is a YA thing about romance with a vampire-- yes I know that sounds like Twilight but she's trying to not make it too similar and I think the idea can work, I'm just not sure how. The only particular issue I have with the book is it feels like things are happening too fast, like the main character's abusive dad is introduced and taken out of the picture in the space of the first few pages and the love interest is introduced on the first page. I've never been good at extending things myself, I kind of think short is better anyway, but here it feels like there should be more.

>>16624959
getting your tweet to 100k retweets

>>16624938
Vim + LaTeX.

>>16624938
notepad + latex

>>16625062
Even worse. I don't like these answers but thank you anyway. What's next, getting upvotes on reddit?

>>16624978
>Write what you know
I haven't read anything on the writer's equivalent, but for actors, there's a rivalry in that intellectual sphere:
>Both Stella Adler and Lee Strasberg are theorists who studied under Constantin Stanislavski, but they came away with different understandings of how to create good theatre.
>Stella believed that actors did not have a large enough emotion repertoire by solely using their past experiences. She believed that imagination should be used to help an actor get into role and determine how to act out the emotions that their character is feeling.
>Lea Strasberg on the other hand, believed that actors should draw solely on past experiences to determine the emotional reactions of their characters.
Basically, the Strasberg method is the classic "write what you know." But I believe the Adler method is more effective. As individuals we are so limited in our experience. Even if you've gone through a lot, there's a great deal you'll never see or do, most of them being literally impossible for you to do so. But within our imaginations lies an endless ocean of material, formed by our collective unconscious, our cerebral souls. You can't live through everything, but you can imagine living through anything. You can't become another person, but you can imagine what another would do. No one has died and lived to tell about it. That hasn't stopped countless people from speculating on the aftermath of such an event.
tl;dr - "what you can imagine" > "what you know."

>>16625090
getting fifty (you)s on one post

>>16624938
Scrivener. Then Grammarly and google docs for editing purposes.

>>16624938
For screenplays, I use pirated Final Draft, but there are plenty of free alternatives out there.
For everything else I use Google docs, but I'm thinking of dropping it because it's autocorrect AI seems to want to shape my writing a certain way. Will probably just use the preinstalled windows word processor. In the end all you really need is something that puts words on the screen. I do like being able to italicize words, tho

>>16625081
based & minimalistpilled

>>16624938
legal pad and quill

>>16624938
pycharm coding ide

>>16624938
notepad

>>16625147
>"what you can imagine" > "what you know."

What you can imagine will often be presented through the lens of what you know. For instance, right now I am reading Robert Heinlein's "Starship Troopers." Obviously, Heinlein never killed aliens while in a spacesuit on another planet, but he did serve in the military, which is why he was able to effectively portray military life, albeit in a science fiction setting.

The well of experiences that people may draw on while creating art—or giving a performance—can be fairly deep, and would likely expand with age. Though not having experience with something could be a factor in limiting a person's art, I'm not sure how much this matters. For instance, as someone who has grown up in the U.S., it would be difficult for me to write a story about growing up in India—but I'm not sure this matters because I can't conceive of any situation where I'd want to write such a story (i.e. I want to write about things that matter to me and India doesn't). If you look at many successful writers, they're people who wrote about the world that they knew and inhabited, which may be why they were able to do it so effectively. James Joyce had Ireland; Evelyn Waugh had journalism, the military, and the Bright Young Things; Ernest Hemingway had the wars he experienced—and so on and on. With regard to being an actor, this may be somewhat different, as most times you would be starting with a character that is not of your own creation, and so wouldn't necessarily be what you "know," yes.

>>16620825
Mega cringe

Anyone else have the problem of procrastinating by re-reading what they're already written? I tell myself I'm cleaning things up, but it's really just an excuse not to write anything when I'm supposed to.

>>16622940
Look in the mirror faggot

>>16625316
Just write
You can edit when you're done

>>16625316
Have you ever tried drawing, anon? Blocking out the overall shape of the picture is a common approach.
You could just do the same in writing: there's no need to get the first pass perfect, just keep writing until you've blocked out the whole story.

>>16625316
>Anyone else have the problem of procrastinating
literally everyone does

>>16625316
I don't get this "fear of procrastinating" that surprisingly many here seem to have. Writing is not a race. Unless the publisher gives you a deadline, there is no rule to how much you should write and how often. Rereading is an important part of the process, I wouldn't say it's ever waste. If years pass without any progress, then you might have a problem, but I doubt that's the case for anyone here.

Threadly reminder to write for yourself and no one else

>>16625394
what a load of horseshit lmfao
>if it's not literally perfect from the start, don't bother
this was written by a 14yo on tumblr

>>16625413
Charles Bukowski, and wtf are you talking about?

>>16625434
>Charles Bukowski
>le hack who only ever worked the easiest job available [and still complained about it] provides shit advice
i'm shocked

>>16625453
>>le hack
That's just like... you're opinion, man

>>16624705
Why would I talk about my ideas when I can just show the finished product? As you said, the execution is what matters. No one's gonna care about your idea just from you sharing it

>>16625394
>if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen searching for words, don't do it
What? I'm fairly certain that every writer in history has had days where they just can't get anything down. This is definitely the most pretentious poem I've ever read, to the point that even calling it a poem is painful

>>16625457
No, Bukowski was definitely a hack. I'm not sure how anyone can actually enjoy his poetry

I’ll be in and out for a bit, but if you got questions, I got answers.

What makes me qualified? I’m in the industry. Also I’m an idiot. That makes two qualifications.

>>16623194
>>16623194
Every two bit retard has an idea for a book or movie. The idea is usually just an amalgamation of the most impressive book or films you've seen in the past year. Form is what separates airport fiction from proper literature, which is what /lit/anons aspire to write due to their own insecurity about their intelligence.

>>16625466
What a waste of dubs

>>16625324
I hate doing that because I always cringe at my work when editing it. It takes a while to get back into the mood. If I sprinkle it throughout, it never burns as bad.
Plus, it's not like I'm sending my stuff off to an editor. Most my projects won't get sent to one even if I do make it.

>>16625329
That's some damn fine advice. Even more useful given the context of my work. Thank you, I'll start doing that.

>>16625333
I meant procrastinating in that specific fashion mr. evil trips

>>16625350
good post
>If years pass without any progress
This is a problem I always heard about; spending years working on something and never even finishing a first draft. I guess my stuff is shorter than most writer's, less mass to work with, so it's less of a problem for me by necessity.

Is there a standard protocol for writing short stories with reoccurring setting/characters? Like Sherlock or Conan. It seems like they just write about the characters as if you already know them and just assume you've read the other stories about them/that place. For Conan I believe they would be in different issues of magazines so the reader may not have read the previous stories, is that a problem or just don't worry about it?

>>16625591
>thinks about narrative and story when he reads the word "idea"

>>16625561
>I’m in the industry
Hmm, in which industry?
If it's in publishing, I'd like to know if you've ever helped an anon on /wg/ break into it with you. And if you haven't, or don't even have the capability to do so, if you would do it if you got the chance to.
If it's in film, gimmie a burner email

>>16625673
I’m in the publishing industry, as well as writing for myself. I’ve never helped anyone break into the writing industry from /wg/, if anything I’ve discouraged people apperantly. But I try and point people in the right directions.

If I could help people in /wg/ break into it, I definitely would. It’s part of the reason I’m here now and again. I’m not super big, nor am I finically stable enough to actually give back to the industry/community in a big way, so I try and help here.


Btw while I’m not in film, I do know bits and pieces of the industry.

Re-posting from other thread:

I hate writing. I'm only 760 words into my erotic short story and I feel overwhelmed. Like, my current idea isn't massive for anything, but I more I think about it the more I feel like I'll have to write 20 pages of material to make it work, and I not sure if I'm up for that right now. This is just supposed to be for fun.

>>16625703
That's nice. I wonder how many anons on /wg/ would do it if they made it. Maybe there's some semblance of comradery amoung the anonymous.
>I do know bits and pieces of the industry.
I'll be honest, I know a thousand people with "bits and pieces" in the industry. What they usually mean is an uncle's friend's cousin who produces TV commercials in Vancouver. Or worse, they mean an actress and then try to pitch her.

>>16625898
There is most definitely commradary in her anonymous.

As to the whole film thing, I do have some experience in, as I was trained for basic script writing and such, as well as how to work on the industry. So if you do need some advice I could maybe point you in the right direction? But otherwise, yeah, it’s a bit limited

>>16623154
If you want a slice of life barkeep story I think it could be really good. And the conversations between the barkeep which is your protagonist, and any of the others, maybe he can have some snippets that are revealed over time in the story. Maybe one of the soldiers or sailors even shows up one day and there's a big scene or something. I like the idea.

If anyone has a minute they can read pic related. It's a page of the screenplay I'm working on. You'll notice it looks fucked up. A screenplay is just a blueprint of a film, so it's developed a unique format to suit those needs.

If you're unfamiliar with the format, here's an explanation -
>Dialogue: placed in a special indent under the name.
>Cuts described on the right hand side: I there are more of these than usual. Editing should be left to the editors. If you're a screenwriter looking to sell your script, the director will snicker at you as he crosses these out.
>Random words capitalized: Objects of interest for the production crew, from props, to complicated effects, to character names for talent acquisition (actors). Some writers capitalize these every time they're mentioned but I think the first time is enough. There's also the shortlist of description words. Most writers don't do it this way, preferring to describe characters in a more literary style. I simply list all distinguishing physical features next to when the character is first mentioned. This is much more efficient, albeit a little ugly.
>Italicized notes: Another personal practice. Information for the costume department (Cos:). But these are only italicized for my convince so I can cut them out to paste them onto a separate document if the word count gets too high. There aren't many of them but some are addressed to different departments (i.e. camera, producers, music)
For a more in-depth look by someone who can explain things better than me go to screenwriting.info/
This page is dense, most pages are just dialogue and short action descriptions.

So far I've written 5 feature film scripts and 2 shorts, one of which I saw to completion. The features range from 87 pages (14,553 words) on the shortest to 172 pages (25,780 words) on the longest, the longest being a garganchuan size and in desperate need of some hedging.

tl;dr - I am (a? the?) screenwriting anon and would like your thoughts please

>>16626128
Ellipsis are retarded. There are better ways to denote pauses.
Thomasin's line at the beginning sounds like an AI's attempt at writing Downton Abbey.
Really the whole scene is a played out trope, but it gets the info across.
Is this a remake of Picnic at Hanging Rock?

>>16626215
The only writer I know of who could make ellipses work was Celine, and he abused the little bastards. It gave his writing a manic, speedy quality, like an exasperated rush of broken thoughts and hatreds. He managed to recruit it to fit his cynical tone.

>>16626253
Well in this d-dialogue e-exchange, they... they're being used to denote awkward social pauses, a-and I'm n... not sure i-it's... I'm just not sure they are effective is all...

>>16626253
>>16626308
Honestly I prefer dashes - they can easily be repurposed for the lazy - or resourceful - writer. Ellipses... they just drag you into Garfield's Monday... kicking and screaming... as if Tuesday's lasagna has already been eaten by Jon...'s date.

If I find some ideas I don't agree with in an old writing I'm going back to, is it okay if I just extirpate them to make room for new ideas?

>>16626669
Dashes are a sign of boldness--of I don't give a fuck mentality. To dash is to drive your point home--to carve it into the reader's brain-- as if with the slash of a knife.

>>16626669
I, too prefer dashes over ellipses. Not only do they make for a better pause, they make your prose look more aesthetic

>>16626911
you can do it anon!!!

>>16626669
people who use a lot of dashes remind me of the Hal Incandenza line about telling the taxi driver to take him to the library

Is this accurate for isekai?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/jfgt9b/isekai_anime_be_like/

Thoughts on characters who lactate?

>>16627070
back

>>16627071
Based. Can't get enough

https://archiveofourown.org/works/20387803?view_full_work=true
feedback please

Here, now that I’ve safely reached
the hilltop with a granite
chimney and stove top
for tea
that I pour for you and me
as it were...

and the gyres in the great sun tower
obscured now and then
turn for a moment

I can safely say
that here amid the smoke
and fog
depending on the day
I can see that
my neighbors are just
as dead as you or me
floating underwater
as if in a graveyard
so you don’t have to worry
about waking them up
when we make love

>>16627228
>feedback on something completed a whole year ago
This probably isn't yours, but, I'll bite because I'm exhausted from caffeine and feel too sad. Brief overview and comments in pic related so far. I don't know if I want to go on any more.

>>16625561
yeah can you help me help others? >>16625052

>>16625778
No joke, do erotic roleplays with people. That way you're only writing half the story and have to come up with half the ideas (assuming you and your partner are at the same level which sometimes you're not) and you get experience while having fun and being exposed to new ideas and styles. After a few months of that you should be able to do both sides yourself. (Disclaimer: I still find coming up with the female side a bit difficult after doing roleplays for almost 2 years but I'm a little autistic so I think that's a stumbling block.) I would even recommend it for practicing writing in general, you just need to have detailed back and forth and different scenarios.
The key word you want to use in setting it up is "literate". Literate roleplay is longer in form and usually has more thought put into it.
gl hf

>>16626759
Sure, you're not rewriting some beloved classic, just make sure it still flows and is cohesive. Ideally the new ideas will be tied thematically or causally to the rest of the story.

>>16626925
this is my girlfriend and I at alternating turns lol

>>16626911
idea: story about a young member of [species?] which is what actually makes up the Grim Reapers

>came up with a story in about 33 seconds after realizing I want Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston on screen again
It's actually pretty good, imo. Like, if I saw someone come up with this concept I'd be interested.

How do I come up with something to practice-write about?

>>16627670
use your brain

>>16627573
>>16627573
It sounds dreadful as I think most people who do reps are thirsty male. Doesn't hurt to give it a go though, where can I find people to do erps?

>>16627700
No

I'm a normal person. I'm perfectly fine. I do not harm others. I do not desire to harm others. Any crimes I may or may not be guilty of involve only myself. I transgress only against myself.

But if these creatures existed in real life. If Babs or Judy Hopps existed in real fucking life. Every second, every minute, ever hour of every day would be dedicated solely and purely to devising and perfecting a plot to abduct and house these creatures for the sole intent of raping and breeding them until I die of exhaustion. I would not stop. I would be more successful as a person, even. Any job, anything that may wound my pride, or tire me, or stress me out- these petty things would be cast aside. I would suffer any labor just so that I might acquire the wealth and status and goods that would deliver me closer to achieving that singular goal. I would go so far as to physically modify myself. A strict diet and exercise routine. Anything that would strengthen and reinforce my cock and its ability to rape these bunnies.

You don't understand. It would be all consuming. Imagine god existed and he gave you a list, a duty. Imagine he gave you just one directive. Difficult, but completely accomplishable. Imagine god told you that to get to heaven, to taste the sweetest fruits of salvation all you had to do was one thing. Would you not do everything in your power to accomplish it? Would it not give your life such a purpose? An arrow loosed from a bow? Bullet fired from a gun? A singular direction, the thrumming battery of the heart beating for this one goal.

My heaven- my salvation lies in the abduction and interminable rape of Judy Hopps. Thank goodness she does not exist, then, for the monster that I would become. For the truth that I would make manifest

>>16627784
not only is this fucking hilarious, it's also extremely well written

>>16627784
Woah

>writing group cancelled again
>can't even get excited about the prospect of writing tonight because my mood's in a downswing

>>16627937
Just conjure up a few imaginary friends and have your own writing group, anon

>>16623961
It's just about people, not politics.

How’d this poem come out lads?

Vampire of the red spider lilies


I stepped outside my home to get some air
I walked aimlessly until I saw there

was a unlit road i had never seen
I heard a voice whispering “if you mean

to enter my mystery, come to me”
I entered though unsure what it would be

I saw little flowers along the way
they shined scarlet red like it was the day

the deeper I went the more they crowded
like the more I walked the more they sprouted

I reached the end of the dark flower path
I saw a statue covered in a bath

of blood and lily petals, it was shaped
like a fanged woman who’s fingers were scraped

spiders legs and a centipedes form
my head then began to feel very warm

I then laid myself down by the statue
the stench of the flowers spread and accrue

rotten flesh, dirt of the mouth, old decay
i then got up and willed to get away

the statue’s head leapt and flew a circle
around me and in a ugly gurgle

said “om Rakta Dam Blut blut dam rakta
phat Ahamkara Rakta Hum hamsa”

i became confused and saw its neck grow
it twisted around me, I couldn’t go

it bit my neck and injected poison
deep dooming dark dirty disgusting death
spinning spirals speckled spots shimmering
lady’s laughter Losing Losing Lo-gone

>>16628931

I was now in a dark land, I couldn’t
I was a fool, i was always a fool
where am I now? why didn’t I go back? why didn’t I

see where I was, i was completely lost
I am filled with dread and encompassed by
the smell of Putrefaction and fragrances of mildew


and as I tried to move my feet wouldn’t
a void filled with horrible shadows cruel
which revealed to me hidden things given to man, they don’t

move an inch, my skin shivers, something tossed
to all living things, I wish they would die
some kind of strange fluid upon my skin

I wish to become drunk upon their blood

the nectar of the dark phantoms filled my inmost spirit

I arose to my feet and saw a pool
of coldness like a knife stabbing my thigh

which filled with cancerous boils and then leaked foul icicles

of blood where rest a spider which had been
my burning Brain, it swept me through the flood
everything overwhelmed me, my eyes ached and fell from me

there though obscured, I then began to drool
hate, disgust and hate for man, less than worms
i could not stop it, the spider drank it

yet prideful, man comes from and remains Mud
I could feel myself being lost, its soul becoming mine

it atop me climbed higher eating spit
i accept it, my heart thirsts and I yearn
I and it I and it I am it I am i am I


it entered my mouth and I felt a change
I opened my eyes and felt very strange
the red lilies were gone, but the statue
remained, appearing with a face that knew
all things, like an old woman, or a friend
i bowed to that statue, “ you who does tend
to the red lilies of blood, be with me
until the end, you are the spider, she
who is the devourer of all men”
i plucked a single scarlet lily then

walked back up the road to return back home
I was tired from how much I did roam
I laid my head down to sleep but wondered
what were those evil words I heard uttered
I never saw that road ‘till that hour
and whatever happened to that flower?

was this just my dream?

Writing is dead.

>>16627573
That sounds like an okay idea until to you factor in scheduling and effectively putting a timer on your work. Then it’s suddenly nerve-racking. Not for me, thank you. Besides, ERPs tend to drive towards sex, and I just realized after outlining it that my story’s gonna be G-rated timid romance fluff.

Anyone here right now want some critique? I don't have much to do at the moment, so feel free to drop an excerpt or short story or link back to something you posted earlier in the thread that you want it looked at.

>>16627937
>my mood's in a downswing
best time to write desu

>>16624177

I dont mind the ”the”s but i think its too long. Its very good in the beginning but then becomes samey. Either let the chatacter drift into memories triggered by something he observes or finish the scene in around half as many words.

My 2 cents.

>>16625552

If you knew what he was talking about (the effortless creation of something that can only be made in the way that it is) you’d know.

It’s arrogant to say it’s the only way, but from my experience there’s a lot of truth to it.

>>16623704
>>16623812
in case you're still here:
so you're basically saying that my story needs and actual story. that's fair, because the only thing i had in mind originally was the fish drop scene. just the one scene, then i tried to build around it. thanks for pointing out the discrepancies in the motif and character attitudes. i'll flesh it out.
my original goal was to make the reader sympathize for the little brother. looking back, that seems kinda silly. i did try to make raul not seem like too much of an asshole, though. more towards the selfishness common in childhood rather than just a bad person. that didn't seem to work out either.
regarding the style (if you can call it such), i tried doing something new and going for a somewhat childish voice in the beginning, and ending with a mature, decisive voice. hence the repetitions, regurgitation of context, and "telling", which i did have reservations about. didn't want to commit to a full child's voice or first person because i can't reach that level of writing yet. i actually love writing in concise sentences like you see in regular short stories. should i just abandon the attempt and stick to a regular voice and syntax?
did it make you feel anything?
what did you think about the description of the crying?
what did you think about the ending?

>>16630246

Any chance you’d do this one?
>>16628931

>>16630576
I am still here anon. I'm usually on around this time.

I am not saying that your story needs an actual story. What I wanted to communicate is that you have something that still needs work and a bit more clarity. One of my major problems with the story is that you have two antagonists, bordering on three. Sammy, Jesse, and in a sense Raul who is also the protagonist. There should be only one. I think Jesse should be removed and Sammy should fill out his role. You can do this in a many ways and I can elaborate more on those for you if you'd like. The main problem with Sammy and Jesse inhabiting the same space is two-fold. One, it drags the story out and inflates the number of characters. Two, (the main reason) they create two separate forms of conflict, one of which remains un-resolved at the end of the narrative. Raul comes into conflict with Sammy because he wants what he has. Traditional envy and desire. Jesse conflicts with Raul by forcing Raul to assert his ownership over his possessions. This is another case of envy, but now it is Jesse instead of Raul feeling it.

The goal to make the reader sympathize with Jesse worked, but it felt forced. He is the snotty-nosed, chapped-lipped little brother screaming, "Mom said it's my turn". This is a common archetype, the under-performing sibling that gets treated like the overachiever. That can work, but the reader doesn't want to sympathize with him because he isn't really redeemable without some motivational reveal. Compare this to Raul, who is envious of Sammy because of his goods, but more deserving (in the eyes of the reader) because he possesses superior ability. If a reader sees a rich child with a flute who can't play and a poor virtuoso who can produce art with the flute, they will want the poor child to end the story with the, or at least 'a', flute. There is no reason for the reader to like Jesse until he becomes the focus of pity, having been mistreated by his brother, who should've known better, and his mother (on his birthday no less). Also take into account that people usually don't like children (think of the reception of child actors in popular film) and that children usually aren't as complex as more developed individuals.

I don't think the style worked. It would be better to be as concise as possible and clear as possible so that you can get the most concentrated version of the narrative out. Work on that, and then later if you want play with those stylistic elements.

It did make me feel sympathy for both Raul early on and for the mistreatment of Jesse at the end.

I think the description of the crying can be cut. The reader only needs to know that the child cried and Raul felt bad about it. They don't need a paragraph describing how the cry changed line by line.

The ending was very hyperbolic. That Raul can remember his brother crying is one thing, that it seemingly turns all of his life's pleasures to ash in his mouth is another.

Feel free to ask for more.

>>16630685
I don't usually like to critique poetry anon, but I'll do it for you anon. Give it a while, I just got breakfast and I need to read the poem first.

>>16630768

Really thank you, genuine critique or even just saying what you think of it means quite a bit to me since it’ll help me refine.

>>16628473
Well I'm interested when something comes of it, you should post chapters here.

>>16630902
Not like I'd have anywhere else...

>>16621030
i suppose without context I can't really judge, but the pace needs to be quicker.

how to write about poverty?

>>16630954
Have you ever experienced it? If so what emotions did it invoke when something bad happened?

>>16630685
1/2
So first off, because this is poetry my method of critique will vary to some degree. The first thing I'm going to do is tell you how I interpret the meaning of the poem or what I get out of it from the perspective of what you are trying to say or what the narrative 'means'. I do this first because everything else is in part predicated on the interpretation of the poem that I form, and if that interpretation is 'incorrect' or not what you intended for readers to get then you have something to think about before attending to apply critique derived from a view of the poem that conflicts with your intention.

This seems to be a poem about Hindu religion or culture in which a man who is taking a walk comes across a stature of Kali in a field of red hibiscus. My understanding of the 'my mystery' line and the spider imagery is in part due to the multi-limbed nature of some Hindu gods but also due to what I will assume you mean to assert via Indra's net, and therefore the interpretation of the poem for the reader and character/narrator alike. There is also imagery of the head, depicted alongside Kali, relating to ego, which becomes a form of questioning and enlightenment in the poem(?). Generally something along these lines is what I see the poem as being about, or what it is 'going for'. However I think there are a few snags and problems along the way.

One is the format. You jump from couplets to quatrain to tercet to single lines and back up the scale again to ten lines per stanza. The lines are typically decameter, but this isn't uniform throughout (I don't mean that it should be for every line either, just letting you know I noticed). The question then is why should it be so long and why take this form. What could be culled to make the poem tighter and more concise.

On that note, we can begin to question the necessity of the voice of the character as well. I assume that you want to use this character to try to explain through obfuscated terms the secret meaning of symbols and actions without outright saying what you mean. I have seen this a lot in poetry. I think it is a slightly damaging assumption for starting and intermediate poets to try to hide a secret message in the poem instead of saying something outright, especially when it relates to their person or personal experiences.

>>16630954
research, be poor, be friends with someone poor so they can tell you what it's like. when you're poor, you worry about things non-poor people brush off. there are moments of shame when you had to decline chipping in, etc.

>>16630760
i'm leaning towards removing sammy, desu. he had no good reason to exist other than to show raul's greed and pettiness, and want to keep brotherhood as the core here. personal preference, i guess. thanks again, i'm learning a lot here.

>>16631063

>So first off, because this is poetry my method of critique will vary to some degree. The first thing I'm going to do is tell you how I interpret the meaning of the poem or what I get out of it from the perspective of what you are trying to say or what the narrative 'means'. I do this first because everything else is in part predicated on the interpretation of the poem that I form, and if that interpretation is 'incorrect' or not what you intended for readers to get then you have something to think about before attending to apply critique derived from a view of the poem that conflicts with your intention.
Normally yes but but I’m actually using a poetic style I invented based on Dali’s paranoiac critical method+the Symbolist movement, which is to say the overlaying of ideas to create multiple narratives which aren’t actually rational or coherent. Think of it like trying to make a cubist painting but instead of every facet being a different part of the object, it’s a different object (idea, narrative) my primary interest in consumption and overwhelming with ideas that barely enter the mind, perception of alien/unknown basically

> This seems to be a poem about Hindu religion or culture et

This is one idea/interpretation I built in, I also built in the idea of various cultural ideas, a particular dream I had and various western kabbalistic ideas, (777 being the amount of syllables) The deity is Rakta kali in particular but also just a vampire I had a dream about but also a recent dream of a different statue but also various other things.

The flower is the spider Lily which is associated with death, ghosts, hell and the afterlife https://en.www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoris_radiata

> One is the format. You jump from couplets to

That’s actually essential, the poem structure first establishes normalcy then when the poison enters him his delirium begins alliteration which results in the various meter changes which are actually designed by taking an unrelated poem, stitching it verse to verse in order to sow in the qualia and a different narrative and then writing a line between each of these two poem lines in order of build a third narrative which only exists between the two poetic narratives, which is again designed to overwhelm with the sense of delirium and impenetrable nature but also give his delirious Qualia. It has to be precisely this long to be 777 syllables

> On that note, we can begin to question the necessity of the voice of the character as well.

Oh I’m far more interested in the aesthetic it’s just what I want to do requires this mixing of symbols and narratives to create narrative/mental confusion. (Liminal mental stated basically)

Do continue I appreciate it.

>>16630685
>>16631063
2/2

Think about that during revision. Why use this narrative character and why 'hide' what you mean with symbols and reference. Not everyone, even those who can circumnavigate it, will want to take part of a literary and cultural scavenger hunt in order to get what you are saying.
The practical part of this tangent is that you think about different forms you could try to put this poem in to get across what you are trying to in the best possible way for both the reader and yourself. So if you want the poem to be about a man having a strange dream, an odd night, a religious experience, or even a horror story that can inform your revision. I bring the narrator/character up because he seems to stand in the way of what I see as you trying to express. If we remove his misunderstanding of events or fears and impressions, does what you want to say change? Can we condense his experience into, lets say ten couplets, does that ruin the meaning or value of what you want to say?

One note of mine on poetry is that to often people asking for workshop are actually trying to do philosophy in disguise. They want to assert some 'meaning' that even they might not fully grasp. The problem here is that it leads to telling instead of showing and as any good or even mediocre poetry manual will tell you; image is the life of poetry. Further, fresh imagery is practically required. As far back as four-hundred years ago Shakespeare was mocking cliche imagery in Sonnet 130. So when you describe what the character sees as an 'unlit road' or 'little flowers' which are literal in their meaning the reader will lose interest. Specificity and strength of image is tantamount in good poetry. Juxtaposing these images to create meaning is quite powerful. This can be done through metaphor and simile, but it need not be. A thing can be just a thing here.

Back to 'Vampire of the red spider lilies' and how to improve it. We begin the poem with the unnamed 'I' going out for air. He is walking 'aimlessly' until he finds a strange road of flowers and follows the path. The pacing here feels a bit awkward, and brings me to another point. Had you completed the narrative before you wrote the poem or were you writing to discover as you went? I feel like the latter is the case here, and that you could write down the important movements of the narrative and the important thoughts you want to express and come up with a cleaner line of attack through the poem. Try doing this without being poetic. Write out the story something like this. 1. He comes across the flowers/statue (inciting event) 2. He attempts to leave and is stopped (point of no return) 3. He is bitten (Close of act 1). Having this charted out will help you wrestle with what cuts need to be made.

I can do an imaginative rewrite of some lines in another comment if you'd like. Thanks for contributing anon, good luck with your writing. Feel free to ask for clarification on anything as well.

>>16631205
>Think about that during revision. Why use this narrative character and why 'hide' what you mean with symbols and reference. Not everyone, even those who can circumnavigate it, will want to take part of a literary and cultural scavenger hunt in order to get what you are saying.
>The practical part of this tangent is that you think about different forms you could try to put this poem in to get across what you are trying to in the best possible way for both the reader and yourself. So if you want the poem to be about a man having a strange dream, an odd night, a religious experience, or even a horror story that can inform your revision. I bring the narrator/character up because he seems to stand in the way of what I see as you trying to express. If we remove his misunderstanding of events or fears and impressions, does what you want to say change? Can we condense his experience into, lets say ten couplets, does that ruin the meaning or value of what you want to say?

Yes, it has to be all and none of those. The vague alien quality and liminal nature is precisely what I want.

The story was actually predesigned to have multiple narratives and ends. I appreciate most the comments Even if they’re kinda made irrelevant by what my desire is. If you’d be down to modify that’d be fun to read.

I've been thinking about the typical femme fatale, with her sultry voice, voluptuous mannerisms and malicious intent, and how that would translate into a male character. I'd like to include such an antagonist to face off against my female protagonist, but I'm not sure what most women would see as a seductive yet dangerous man. Could you cite some characters I could use as references, or just give me some advice on the matter?

>>16631070
The reason that I prefer the removal of Jesse over the removal of Sammy is that Jesse has more room to function antagonistically without being a bad person. His regular functions without malice incite conflict. His parents give him things and so Raul's desire grows. Jesse has to be an unlikable character to conflict with Raul, unless you want to make the mother a more antagonistic force who intercedes on his behalf to force Raul's hand. It is easier for Raul to mix feelings of admiration, camaraderie, love, and hatred with Sammy, who he envies than it is to mix Raul's feelings towards Jesse who he naturally regards as inferior. Also, and this is a big point, if Jesse becomes the only antagonist it removes the impetus for improvement on Raul's behalf and pushes their mother's limited resources to a strain. They will then, after all, both be competing for their mother's love and attention as well as her fiscal rewards and because Raul is smart and Jesse is not the results will feel stilted. There are things you can do to combat this and there are also problems with my solution. I just wanted to make my case to inform you of the reason for my suggestion.

The problem with Sammy being the only antagonist is that the ending would obviously need to be changed due to the removal of Jesse. Because that climax is the impetus for your story I can understand that you would be against that, or that it would ultimately be, to you, a different narrative entirely. I don't want you to feel like I'm trying to force you to change your story or that your ideas are worse. Ultimately making Sammy the antagonist means either dropping the original ending or changing the actors. This means that either Sammy, the rich child, destroys Raul's aquarium and strains the friendship or that Raul destroys Sammy's aquarium and realizes that his mother can't afford to replace it, which strains multiple relationships. What you want to do as a writer is try to elevate the amount of pressure and stress that a character undergoes. This is the diamond in coal or hard times strong men theory of writing. The worse it gets, the more down and out Raul is, the better. This is what is motivating my ideas for change in your story. I'm simply taking the rout of least resistance with existing elements to create the most satisfying crunch and most concise path to resolution in the narrative.

To keep Jesse then, I think you should solve these problems. Why can't Jesse have his own toys? Why is their mother not considerate of Raul's emotions and feelings of achievement being undermined? Why does Raul let Jesse have his way? How can both be punished and what can they learn from it? Is Raul's deal also offered to Jesse? If so why can't Jesse get good marks? Why doesn't Jesse play with toys he gets for Christmas (assuming they celebrate it) or his birthday? Without Sammy what motivates Raul to get a bicycle and a fish and why does his brother care about either of them?

>>16631239
cringe your way through this
https://nhentai.net/search/?q=Rain+Curtain

>>16624177
Aside from the flow of the prose, which could use some work, the main problem is that there are a lot of words for the little insight that's gained. It will become boring quickly because there's no payoff.

>Don’t want to write anything because it’s painful.
>Try to take your mind off it, but the only thing you can think about is your writing.

>>16631765
Why not get a non-painful hobby instead? It's not like we're getting rich doing this.

>>16631802
I have other hobbies, but this is my only productive one.

>>16631765
I'm scared of this, desu. I have one story idea that I know is going to kick my ass when I write it, but you gotta slay those demons, Anon. We all do.

>mfw there's already a guy with my name and same middle Initial out there self-publishing shit
Am I screwed if I ever get published? I refuse to use a pen name.

>>16632315
That sounds like a nightmare...
Wait maybe you can pretend to be him and get your stuff published more easily.

>>16632325
>I write "normal" stuff
>he's sci-fi/fantasy stuff
I don't see that working out.

Just kidnap him and then get ahold of his agent and say you're ready to make the change away from sci-fi. This is a better chance than anyone else here has to make it

I once watched an interview in which an author commented, on the matters of character creation, that in order to get them right he'd write up interviews with the characters, in which he'd pry and try to get a reaction out of them. I found that to be a very interesting method to get your characterization down.
How do you guys do in order to form the mold of a character?

>>16632539
>>16632539
Interview method is recommended here often, a variant is both the interviewer and interviewee are your characters. They are given a set of questions, then you come up with both of their actions with the caveat that the questions are actually asked and answered.
Ultimately a character answers to their role in the story. If a side character can be replaced with a Stan Lee cameo, then it might be a chance to reconsider who and why they are there.

>>16632367
Why not then use your middle and last name? Or use your first name as an initial, or your last name as an initial, or your entire name.

Michael Hart Jordan
Michael HJ
M H Jordan
M Hart Jordan
Hart Jordan

You could stop being a pussy too.

>>16632711
Because I'm autistic as a mother fucker and don't feel like altering my name

>>16624943
and once again, the day ends with a few hundred words more and some bits of story

Alright, I'm going to do it today. I'm going to muster up the willpower to go back and edit/rewrite my first few chapters

>>16632806
You got this

>>16627728
a phone app called kik is great for it, just make an account and search for "roleplay" or "RP", but be wary of ages because a lot of people around 16 use kik for some reason
Discord isn't too bad for RP either
if those sound too corporate go ask one of the porn boards (I suggest /d/ or /gif/)

>>16632711
>Michael HJ
lol
>M Hart Jordan
I feel like this will have the most literate sound/look to it
but I would really consider a pen name too, it may even help you if you decide to take your writing in a different direction later

>>16622383
Did people in the 18th century really say "anywho"?

How do you come up with a lot of ideas for plots and characters? Do you have specific routines or exercises?

Asking for a friend.

>>16633465
time
if you're short on time take some traits and assign them numbers then roll some dice

>>16633465
Usually doing some research on the setting for the story helps me come up with good ideas. For the second novel I'm working on, I found something interesting in a manual on exorcism I read, and used it to shape the plot

>>16633465
I daydream. If you can't come up with this stuff involuntarily and automatically, you suck as a storywriter. I never had to sit down and come up with characters or settings. They came to me.

>>16632736
I was joking about being a pussy.

What about combining your name with the name of someone you admire?

Or just add something to differentiate yourself like a title.

>>16633987
I do the same. I probably spend close to 90% of the day daydreaming even whilst I'm doing other things.

Sometimes I'm thinking about the next bit of my story and then sometimes an idea strikes me and I know it's what I have to do, even if it means I have to kill off a character that I like.

>>16633465
Sometimes an idea will come to me, and from that point on I keep on developing it. Sometimes I come up with the idea on my day to day life, other times I need to actually sit down and concentrate on the elements I want to be a part of the story.

>>16633987
>>16634105
I agree with these two anons, the only thing I maybe have trouble with is naming characters, story beats and character arcs come naturally though

>>16623559
you're probably subconsciously imitating someone who picked up habits from Christie

>>16625052
>>16627519
The best way for people to learn how to write is by continuslouly writing work and getting it critiqued. Even better if you are critiqued by those in the industry, or by those who have a flair for writing themselves. And top points if they are given critiques by an editor. It’s the hard reality of the industry.


As for your friends specific case, if she needs to slow down, get her to slow down via detail. Either the main character or the narrator needs to give us more details on things. Either that or details need to be shown to us via actual character interactions/scenes. So in this particular example...
>Absusibe dad is introduced and taken out
How do we know he’s abusive? Does she simply claim he is? Do we as an audience witness this abuse? If previous then actually expand on the abuse by showing us a scene. If latter expand on abuse by showing us his abusive triggers or show us how the abuse affects her.

>live interest is introduced on first page
Not a bad thing if the love interest is her life I suppose. If not then what’s he mean to her? Is he a reprieve from the abuse she takes? In which case move his introduction to after the abuse to show this. Etc


Another thing you can do is cut things that don’t work/don’t have impact, and replace them with something more substantive. As an example, does her fathers abuse actually do anything? Does it affect her? Does it lead anywhere? If it’s always a resounding no, cut the father and fill it with something that will. So as an example, if the abusive father is just a tool to show where her lack of self confidence comes from, cut it. Replace it with more scenes of her trying to achieve something, being worried about her abilities, kind of trying towards said goal, then failing and using it as an excuse for not trying in something else.

All of this is very general btw. I don’t know anything about the story. And I’m not sure if your looking for advice on how to be an editor. (If you are btw, you are always trying to help the persons piece become the best version of itself that it can be. That’s the goal of an editor. Give the author positive things that they should keep in mind when moving forward, look to help change things that you don’t think work. Get them to explain why they made a choice, or what they were trying to achieve on those things that don’t work. Don’t baby your author but always handle them with care.)

Hope this whole mishmash of shit helps

Can I really not get a 30000 word story published. I dont want to add fluff

>>16634597
Might want to see about submitting to periodicals.

What do you guys think of this character model my friend drew

>>16634597
Who reads those?

>>16634597
Plenty of novels have fluff, though. Sometimes they're the best parts

>>16634676
Ya I'm listening to Moby Dick and it is quite entertaining in its lengthy rants

>>16634604
that's actually pretty cool anon. Your friend did a good job

>>16634239
Nearly everything I read is from the 1800s

>>16634597
Isn't the Old Man and the Sea like, 35,000? If it's good, publishers won't care. If they do, go write a few things that are longer and have them publish it after you'd had some success.

How do I make my third person writing not sound like I'm writing for forth graders?

>>16634809
Just because it’s third-person doesn’t make you can‘t share the character’s thoughts and perspective.

I just have a simple question. When you refer to multiple products, like a Honda, Playstation, whatever, do you write Hondas or Honda's?

>>16634849
That's not what it is. There's something about the way I write third person that comes across really juvenile to me

https://pastebin.com/WusxM98V

I don't know why I keep posting these. I guess it's just a call for human contact. In small measure.

>>16635199
I have so many question, most just curiosity about the person who wrote this.

They need to work on their punctuation and adverbs, either way.

Based for killing the nigger tho

>>16634857
Hondas, because the latter is possessive

>>16634803
I'm not so sure that using one of the most successful authors of all time as an example works very well here. Not only is the anon unpublished, the industry has changed a lot since then. Publishers have certain standards that they want met

>>16635199
too much caricature and common places, feels like pandering, lacks its own soul

Now a blissful moment, tomorrow a common setting.
To be the place of many fancies half-fulfilled
And sate the idle appetite of my old tired head
A sunny garden for my lonely senior self
For whiling away the time
And wondering what might have been.

Is "predictable" really a valid point of criticism? Many beloved stories are just variations on the Hero's Journey story archetype. Also, if knowing what's coming makes something worse, then what is the point of reading/watching/playing anything twice? Do you not know what's coming which should by that logic make it worse? And if you can see a plot development or twist coming, doesn't that mean it had good setup?

>>16636446
We live in an age where "subverting expectations" is considered good writing and "playing it straight" is passé. This is the post-ironic age where genuine things are alien and strange.

Are friends and/or family a good source of proof readers?

>>16636446
>>16636458
Plotfags deserve the rope. Modern bugmen are unable to appreciate literature outside >mu plot >mu worldbuilding >mu strong w*men

>>16636484
My older sister turned out to be very useful in this regard.

>>16636446
Predictable is generally synonymous with just "boring". The way the events are set up is so hamfisted and banal it makes reading a slog.

>>16636458
>genuine things are alien and strange
This is what I'm worried about with my writing. While there are times it kinks out and does things unexpected, it's pure genuine stuff from the heart.

>>16636484
depends on the person. The risk is they're stupid and don't know what they're talking about, and the even bigger risk is they don't want to hurt your feelings.

>https://pastebin.com/RS444YKv
This is the only kind of stuff that I actually enjoy writing. Is it over for me? I can write in more conventional ways but I don't enjoy it.

>>16635990
That's all people understand. Copies of what they believe to be themselves experiencing a tribulation that has to end at the end of the page. To guarantee they have more time to consume.

You speak of soul? I say, what soul is left for the masses?

>>16636991
You should take up poetry.

>>16636991
>Fear not for the bell's toils.
Is standard English "too conventional" for you?

>>16636995
Time to sudoku, my mate

>>16636991
You should try to learn to enjoy it anon. This passage does very little to create story. The first paragraph is just filler words describing an event that doesn't matter. The bell rang and the town woke up. Why does that matter? Conventional writing is conventional for a reason. If you tried this shit with construction your house would collapse because you don't want to build conventionally. Convention isn't a dirty word and good writing isn't bad because everyone else already did it.

>>16637013
I probably won't, but it is a genre I haven't really explored, with probably a whole lot I can learn.
>>16637148
Not at all, I spend most of my day using it. There's a lot of beauty in conventional English, and I appreciate good writing when it presents itself, regardless of dialect. At the same time, I feel Joyce's bone-deep disappointment with not just the English language, but with language itself. I'm no Joyce, obviously, but there's something that's just really satisfying about trying to connect with things in a way language is ultimately just insufficient to portray.
>>16637187
>create story
Honest question, why does everything need to be "create story?" I don't really understand the overwhelming fixture on story. I've never once (in my adult life) picked up a book for its story. Story to me is something you have to slog through to get to the beauty.

Disclaimer: I DO NOT PRETEND TO BE ANYTHING BUT A SHITTY WRITER. THIS POST IS INTENDED TO BE TAKEN AS AN HONEST EXPLORATION OF THE CONCEPTS DISCUSSED WITH THE GOAL OF GREATER UNDERSTANDING

>>16636496
>mu plot
what's wrong with plot? I mean I can kinda understand the other two, as they can have a tendency to interfere with the actual writing and storytelling, but isn't plot required for that in the first place? I don't see the point you're trying to make.

This is the first poem(?) that I wrote. Please give me feedback :)

>>16637586
Chuckled

Question. If you're writing a story about the diary of somebody during a war (actually in the trenches) and it is suppose to be a horror story, do you consider this 'psychological horror' or 'survival horror'? Or can it be either? Or do they cross over?

Finally, anybody got any suggestions of some to read? I've read some of the classics such as The Red Laugh by Leonid Andreyev (not fully trenches and 50% of the book isn't even in a war but it still applies).

>>16637586
I'd make one suggesiton. Add another line which is
>she
There you go. Literally be award winning.

>>16637824
Survival horror is a video game genre, so I doubt you're writing one.

>>16637852
I mean it's both.
>Maybe you know “survival horror” best as a genre of video games, but stories of people fighting for their lives in the face of terror, supernatural and otherwise, are as old as storytelling itself. Look to the shelves of your favorite local bookstore and you’re bound to find plenty of grim and grisly tales in which the best the heroes can hope for is to simply survive.
That's what I meant and if you type in 'Survival Horror books' you get scores of results, lists and recommendations. So, either you're ignorant of genre terms in literature or you're a /v/ermin who can't shake le epic /v/idya xD from your mind.

>>16637875
I have never ever heard of survival horror in any other context than video games. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. Have a nice day.

>>16637899
Well, what else do you call it where the best outcome somebody can have is 'survive' and there are horror elements?
>Have a nice day.
You too.

>>16624442
That's quite seriously all I've ever done. If I'm going to be mentally ill I might as well give my novels a unique feeling of people trapped in the head of someone with a perception that is misaligned with reality.

I have the hook and the body of a short story but I can’t figure out an ending with a punch and it’s killing me

Once again, I open my word processor, and I am stuck.

>>16637405
You realize that even Ulysses has story structure, right? Writing is done for the main purpose of telling a story, which hasn't changed since some big brain in Mesopotamia wrote the Epic of Gilgamesh. Having beautiful prose and wordplay is great, but nobody is going to care about it if you don't have a story to tell along with it

>>16639060
what if the real story was just the words we read along the way?

>>16639147
Maybe you're onto something, friend

>>16638877
Start a new document, turn off spell check, and start typing down total garbage. Free form, whatever comes to mind.

Also keep a note next to you when you type. I find it easier to write things down on paper before committing them to print.

>>16636991
When people discuss literature they often say it is rewarding to discover the "true meaning" of a certain novel or story. What they mean is that truly talented writers are capable of saying profound things about humanity while simultaneously telling a captivating story, and that this process can often be so subtle that to make the connection between the profound truth and the captivating story (and in some cases, the language used to tell that story) feels like unearthing a hidden treasure. They don't mean it's fun to translate some pretentious pedant's obscure rambling into plain English to figure out what the hell he was trying to say.

Any tips on writing short stories?

>>16625081
>>16625224
Why do people use Notepad?

>>16637586
second verse;

The penis
She has unzipped the cage
Yes
YES
The penis is out

>>16639510
1. Don't expect them to take a short time to write.
2. Read this piece by George Orwell. https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/

do you get upset when a reader doesn't grasp the point/theme of a story, or do you consider it your fault?

>>16640008
I wouldn't be upset. I don't have a clue what the point or theme of my fiction is either.

>>16640008
I never assume my work is perfect.

What do you think is the best way to write a story about two characters who are each other's antagonists? I see the Game of Thrones route of just giving each character an entire separate chapter works out well, but I'd rather draw from how it's done in Catch 22. The whole book has Yossarian front and center but it transitions so smoothly into the side characters and their stories. I'm just afraid that, between the two main characters and the need to establish the world through their experiences, it could subtract from the story instead of enriching it.

>>16640008
I consider it my fault. Themes should be one of the most obvious parts of a story, I think. If the reader isn't able to get at least that, I have failed somewhere

>>16639761
That essay was really interesting, thanks anon

>>16640171
No idea, really. You're right that you risk subtracting from the story. Having two characters like that essentially means you need to write a longer story, so just outline proper structures for each PoV.

>>16640008
>tfw i still don't get the point of some short stories i read in online mags or lit quarterly
fug

Well it finally happened. Saw the title for my WIP on the internet (not for a book, but still). Feeling pretty lost right now.

>struggling to figure out an idea for my sequel
>finally figure out a plot that looks perfect
>try to develop it
>realize that it's not the direction my characters would naturally progress in, not based on my personal experiences, and that it benches my MC in favor of his GF
>try to find some way to salvage it
>mfw it turns out the only way to fix all those problems is to make book 2 about the MC getting dumped, feeling inadequate and descending into inceldom as he struggles tries to get her back

Goddammit. Why?

>>16641674
this has to be ironic shitposting

someone PLEASE tell me it is

>>16641845
No, I was being genuine. Do I have no reason to worry? Trying to understand the problem you're implying.

>>16641674
Just come up with a different title? Not exactly the end of the world

>>16641862
Kind of is to me man.

How do you organize your notes? I'm having a bash at writing a story, but it's becoming really unmanagable. For example, in my document outlining the plot progression 2400 out of 3400 words are just footnotes, attempts at poking holes in the events, notes for later considerations and so on. And I have three others in a similar state. Doesn't help that all of it is done in notepad either.

>>16641924
Separate files for separate elements

>>16641924
Just use scrivener. Pretty easy to manage everything with it. You can't really complain about having a hard time organizing things when you're using notepad, of all programs

>>16641945
Righto.

>>16641949
I'm aware, and I'm not complaining, just kind of at a loss for how to structure things. Notepad wasn't exactly a conscious choice, I've just gotten into a habit of jotting ideas down in txt files. One of those ideas now ended up developing further than anticipated.

>>16641883
Well, end yourself then. So long as it's not a unique title like Moby-Dick, or Ulysses, they won't and can't sue you, even if you make something by the same name.

>>16639354
I guess we've got a difference of opinion. I really don't care about stories in books. I can see your point and don't contest it, but things like plot, story, characters, all have functions within the medium. I'm not saying that this applies to me, but I think it's possible that beautiful writing can serve the same function that plot does. It's creative writing, so there needs to be more than just an information dump, but I don't see any reason why that needs to be mu plot mu characters etc.

>>16640008
>do you get upset when a reader doesn't grasp the point/theme of a story, or do you consider it your fault?
I will accept that they were filtered and move on. You can't cater to everybody, even if you try, there's always somebody who doesn't get it. So long as it's clear to me personally what the point/theme is and how it's expressed in the story, that's enough.

>>16641949
>Just use scrivener

>paying real money for a word processor
Just how cucked can you get?

>>16634604

yes but i also think robocop

>>16641949
>>16642230
Can't find a fucking torrent for the thing or I would use it.