/lit/ - Literature

>>16593078
How is that an unpopular opinion

>>16593078
Wow anon. So brave.

Modern books are better than old ones.

>>16593078
I think its good for the chase scene at the end alone. But it isnt great

>>16593078
>he thinks the "since I read it in high school it must be a bad book" meme is real

>>16593078
Audiobooks are better

>>16593078
Unpopular to /lit/
>Hemingway is a great writer
>Steinbeck is also a great writer
>The only reason people think otherwise is because they became a model for hundreds of postmodern writers to mimic, making their style boring and simple.
Generally unpopular-
>Feminism was a mistake
>Hitler did nothing wrong

>>16593078
>Unpopular on /lit/:
Fiction > Nonfiction >>> Philosophy
>Unpopular on 4channel:
Feminism/Women's Rights are a good thing
All races are inherently equal

The roomantic philosophers who harp on the need for poetry, living, loving, etc. in philosophy are so fucking pathetic.
Stop being overly pessimistic but for fucks sake also stop being so (human) optimistic.
I hate:
>Goethe
>Schiller
>Fichte
>Hegel
>Hölderlin
>Jacobi
>Novalis
>heine

>>16593249
assblasted anglo detected

>>16593187
>they're only boring and simple because you've read a bunch of other authors
This is a terrible argument dude.

>>16593254
the english are worse at this since they dont even have the foundational philosophy to base this romanticism on; their romanticism is vapid and not to be taken seriously philosophically
>>16593249
I want to add:
>analytical philosophy never even needs to be mentioned.

>>16593078
Bradbury is a fucking bore and he couldn't write flowery prose even if you pressed a gun to his temple.

>>16593249
OP here. Hölderlin is everything to me. Take the romantic pill. Goethe and Schiller are classical. Goethe hated romanticism.

>>16593078
Homer translates better to prose than verse, because the verse style of old Greek is completely different to English, making a translation to verse just senseless and just inconvenient, thus making it harder to translate the actual content.

Also:
-The agricultural revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
-A population maximum of 500 million must be maintained.

>>16593225
Holy reddit

>>16593276
>Goethe hated romanticism.
goethe hated everyone (who was philosophically or through literature acclaimed) who wasnt him, so that doesnt say anything, and he hated especially those who imitated him when he was already moving on to his next phase.

>Dude got filtered by Kant only to at the end of his life to slowly see the light that is Kant.
>In short: Goethe is never to be taken seriously even if his works (ON THEIR OWN) are sublime

>>16593187
Disagree that the reason their style seems boring is that they were mimicked by postmodernists. I think it's more that they subscribe to largely straightforward realism and don't write with any kind of pyrotechnics, which most people on this board (myself included) typically prefer. In addition to that, they don't tend to go after big, complicated ideas (I'll qualify this by saying that they don't go after meaty philosophical stuff the way that a lot of other modernists and postmodernists do), and they're frequently assigned in high school, making them easy pickings for folks more partial to "patrician" lit (think Melville, Dosto, Nabokov, Pynchon, Gaddis, etc.) to make fun of.

>>16593249
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOk6HB609po

>>16593306
>heygehl
do americans really?

We should ban all theory threads

if you're not at least somewhat engaged with/interested in contemporary literature you're just a pitiful little custodian

>>16593078
Milton isn't very good, sonnets aren't very good. Shakespeare's best works are his lyrics.

>>16593078
the obsession of this board with philosophy broadly and the ancients in general makes it 1000% more boring than it could be otherwise

>>16593266
alright now we gon' fight

I have a few, not sure if they are unpopular though.

I read the catcher in the rye, and it was pretty comfy, I have no idea why there is so much hate for this book here.

All Houellebecq's novels are pretty much the same:
>30-40yo main character
>depressed
>literally no ending

Sherlock Holmes is boring (or maybe it's just not my cup of tea)

1984 is really average

It's hard to remember all the names from Dostoevsky's novels

Spanish literature is superior to english literature. And that's a fact.

>>16593078
We know

Master and Margarita is overrated garbage

>>16593225
>Feminism/Women's Rights are a good thing
>All races are inherently equal
Already been debunked by multiple scientific studies.

1984 is too, and it's actually horrifying.

can some1 tell me who tf those guys are in the pic

>>16594730
>Brought to you by the great minds of lit

>>16594787
Chopenhauer, Mark, Kant, Hegel, Neeche,

>>16594797
the german greats

>>16593135
cause it´s wrong

>>16593276
Do you read him in translation? If so is it worth it?

>>16594730
victorian era pseudoscience about "muh skulls, muh mongoloids and negroids" don't count

>>16593249
What's wrong with advocating for poetry, living, and loving? Most people in the world have little to no capacity for any of those things, with disastrous consequences.

>>16593078
it was alright the ending kinda felt rushed tho

Western whites are spiritual niggers

>>16594814
>victorian era pseudoscience
As if. Just because you're ignorant of contemporary science doesn't mean it doesnt exist.

>>16593279
How was the agricultural revolution a disaster for the human race? Without it, our population wouldn't even be 1 million, and we'd still be living in teepees. Sure, a lot of suffering would have been prevented if we never developed cities and such. But by that logic you could just as well say the big bang has been a disaster for the human race, which is nonsense.

>>16594814
>skulls
The was a more recent study that found positive correlation between brain volume and intelligence.

There was also a study involving children adopted by white middle class American parents that found White and Asian children had significantly higher average IQ than black children.

There was also the mirror test experiment which found black children were not self aware at a much later age than Whites or Asians.

There was also an experiment testing empathetic response in babies that found Asian babies had a lower level of sympathy for perceived suffering in others.

>>16594886
>found positive correlation between brain volume and intelligence.
who could ever have predicted this

Unpopular opinion: Most philosophy is wrong, or indistinguishable for being wrong, and completely pointless to read.

>>16594908
>wrong being possible
dont think so buddy.

hitchikers guide to the galaxy is genius and well composed on every level.

>>16594908
Not wrong.

>>16594814
You forgot the questionably sourced IQ map, ms paint infographic about Black crime rates, grossly misinterpreted cited scientific study, even more uncited "scientific studies" conveniently supporting already circular arguments. It's all so tiresome.

>>16593306

>>16594913
Are you saying.... I'm wrong?

>>16594903
>who could have predicted this?
Not these guys, apparently >>16594814>>16594926

>>16594908
...according to your philosophy.

There are no books that men will never understand.

>>16593078
Here's a hot take
>Big Brother is an allegory for the Abrahamic God.

>Gravity's Rainbow is so fucking overrated.

>>16594084
>I read the catcher in the rye

He rapes his sister, Phoebe.

>>16594862
Here are three common arguments:
>Hunter-gatherers were healthier than their agricultural descendants, as evidenced by malnutrition and a decrease in height. Only recently have we returned to pre-agricultural heights
>Grain storage lead to wealth disparity, large scale war, etc.
>Humans psychologically are better adapted for tribal living

>>16594913
"Nobody is wrong. Reality doesn't exist. There is a link between race and penis length but not race and intelligence. Nothing can be proven because nothing is real."

>>16593078

>>16595050
"Here is irrefutable proof based on empirical evidence that supports my claim."

>>16595104
If 49 people coincidentally hallucinate an apple which looks the same and only one person sees that it is in fact a banana, and yet they go about proving that it is an apple, is it in fact not a banana?

>>16595104
"Laughable. It's all so tiresome. Read Stirner. Read Hegel."

>>16594908
nice strawman. Yes, Marx didn't believe in reality. /s. When will you fucking losers stop using the "nordic chad" to stand in for yourselves? We are all positive thats what you look like in real life lmao

>>16594944
whales are the smartest creatures on earth, their brains are fucking huge

>>16595127
'goes straight to racial penis length' yep I think you fags are compensating for something, too much bbc cuck porn has rotted your minds.

>>16595113
>If 49 people coincidentally hallucinate an apple which looks the same and only one person sees that it is in fact a banana, and yet they go about proving that it is an apple, is it in fact not a banana?

>>16593187
Steinbeck is the best pure naturalist of the 20th century. hemingway is fucking horrendous though, is only remembered because of his self-aggrandizement and easy to imitate prose.

>>16593078
'The Trial' sucks balls.

>>16593249
based

>>16595169
this kierkegaaard is overrated

>>16593135
because it's kind of low brow
well written and enjoyable to read though

>>16595147
"Demonstrating my logical inconsistency proves only that you are a cuck. Proof is arbitrary. Logic is a spook. Penises are a social construct."

>>16594944
No but I mean really, what differentiates us from our ape friends, what was THE evolutionary trend of the past few million years with us? It was our brains getting bigger.

I'm sure there's more to it than just brain size=smarter, depends which areas, and also things like number of neuronal connections that aren't related to size. But to assume there would be no link at at all is just patently retarded.

>>16595194
You're right. To be specific, it's brain mass/body mass ratio that's correlated to intelligence. Many people try to find reasons to deny this because they don't like the implications.

>>16593078
Patriotism is underrated as fuck and Temple of the Golden Pavillion is a bit shit compared to Mishima's other work

>>16595186
>supports a slave morality yet has the audacity to call others basedboys

>>16593078
Marx was right

Jane Austen is good

>>16593078
The Death of the Author is absolutely worthless and cancerous form of literary criticism.

>>16595929
Death of the author isn't bad as long as you have evidence for your claims. Every single college student who complains about interpreting literature does not understand the value of making sound arguments in order to support a particular interpretation of a literary work.

>>16595927
I don't think many people on here that have actually read Austen would disagree with that

Translation is an art in itself and reading in translation, even if the translation is generally poor, is always acceptable.

>>16593249
Denying oneself and others paths of development that are proven fruitful is pessimism bordering on the pathological, not the absence of optimism--which is unrealistic expectations that usually deny something else, the value of memory and experience. That's more in the line of the devilishly tricky Leibniz, the inspiration for Voltaire's Dr. Pangloss, which is not at all like Goethe. In this regard, your opinion will always be highly popular, but only among men born with less than usual vitality.

>>16594093
I'd say they're neck and neck but I personally prefer Spanish lit.

>>16595952
>Death of the author isn't bad as long as you have evidence for your claims.
Isn't Death of the Author about ignoring the background of the author? I'm not denying that the author could lie, forget about things, or change his mind but the author's intent matters more than any bullshit analysis of the story. This also opens up the story to a bullshit prescriptive literary analysis when a perfectly reasonable out of universe explanation would suffice.

>>16595961
Shes obviously good I just think her characters lives are boring af.

>>16594908
I swear to god, so much of philosophy is people who think they are not philosophers cuz they hate philosophy then trying to prove philosophy is bad through philosophy.
>>16593078
Here are my unpopular (philosophical) opinions:
> the forms are real but they are Falsities that delimit what Truth is (Appearances).
>Most people are smart.
>Fiction is an emotional exercise and most of lit would be better off reading more YA to spurn their deep ressentiment and allow themselves to enjoy "stupid" "normie" feelings.

Wittgenstein is nothing compared to Weininger.

>>16593249
hating goethe is some 10iq shit
t. germong

>>16596000
>paths of development that are proven fruitful is pessimism
alright so that mindset is only for development.
Then stop pretending it is more than that.
Not saying you should drop all poetry at some point but all (most) of the philosophers mentioned will want to perpetually be in the "development" phase.
>>16597039
Du hast mich missverstanden, vollidiot.

>>16595929
>>16595952
>>16596105
I think its ok to argue outside of the authors intended perspective as long as you clearly state that its your experience when reading the work and dont make it out to be some universal truth

>>16597057
was lässt dich vermuten dass ich dachte du würdest wirklich goethes werk als ganzes hassen und nicht nur seine philosophischen tendenzen, ich wollte nur etwas sticheln und sehen ob du ein leicht zu reizender idiot bisst oder was man so als billige unterhaltung herauskriegt, ja seine theorien außerhalb der literatur sind nicht ernst zu nehmen da stimme ich zu

schönes wochenende noch, anon

>>16593249
How the fuck is Heine, the guy cynically making fun of every part of contemporary german life, an optimist? Did we read the same Heine?

>>16597072
>ich wollte nur etwas sticheln und sehen ob
"i was merely pretending to be a retard"
>ja seine theorien außerhalb der literatur sind nicht ernst zu nehmen da stimme ich zu
based
>schönes wochenende noch
dir auch <3

>>16593187
You're pretty retarded except for the point on feminism

>>16597093
>I was merely pretending to be retarded
well, yes

>>16594908
This is a popular opinion

>>16597062
I'm going to be blunt. The Death of Author reads like Marxist garbage and says the stories shouldn't be under the control of the tyranny of its author. This gayshit is how we got GameTheorists.

>>16597221
havent read the book because I dont really give a shit so I was talking about my perception of the general idea, of course the author should be the highest instance when it comes to the meaning of the content of his work but I still think honestly talking about what you felt or thought when reading it is fine as long as you recognise it as merely your experience

>>16593078
Nietzsche ripped off Mänlander, who was more insightful

>>16595038
>Hunter-gatherers were healthier than their agricultural descendants, as evidenced by malnutrition and a decrease in height. Only recently have we returned to pre-agricultural heights
And they still got raped, killed or enslaved. So much for a health diet.
>Grain storage lead to wealth disparity, large scale war, etc.
And what about it faggot?
>Humans psychologically are better adapted for tribal living
Doesn't matter.

>>16597318
its mainländer, a self imposed name to show affection towatds his home land around the main river, and nietzsche didnt even engage with his ideas apart from calling him weak and had completely opposite stances towards life

>>16594093
Post WW2 this is indisputably true.

>>16593187
Both Hemingway and Steinbeck are great.Hemingway actually requires some reading skill to “get” which a lot of anons miss; he isn’t as simple as he appears.Generally on lit, anons like long, difficult or obscure texts to flex their muscles

>>16595159
Hemingway is in his element when he is writing about sports like hunting or bull fighting.

>>16593078
Fascist philosophy holds no water.

>>16595132
>/s

>>16595035
did I miss something? is this a meme? I only remember him getting molested by the teacher

The answer to 90% of "plotholes" is that fiction is about drama, theme, and emotion, not about watching a perfectly logical character do the most optimal thing in any given situation, or whether or not the made up lore is 100% consistent and scientifically accurate.

Art died in 1900
Socialism died in 1945

>>16599906
I disagree. For me, drama comes from "what would I do in that situation, how would I feel?" If logic gets violated too many times, I can no longer relate the story to real life and I throw the book away. If there's magic involved, it should follow its own rules.

Lord of the Rings is perfect because it's consistent. Magic exists, but it follows its own logic. Fantasy races exist, but are consistent with their own quirks and cultures; Tolkein even invented living languages that changed with each era, like language does in real life. The rest of the world works normally, gravity and water and everything is like earth. LOTR is a perfect example of fantasy that's logically consistent.

>>16599953
>Art died
Only in the mainstream. There are still great artists, but they don't get the spotlight in our diseased mainstream culture. If you like art, you should try to find good artists and support them.

>>16599953
>Art died
Only in the mainstream. There are still great artists. They don't get the spotlight in our diseased mainstream culture, but they're out there.

If you like art, you should try to find good artists and support them.

>>16598557
He said unpopular opinions

19th century French lit > 19th century Russian lit.
Musil, Broch, Kafka, Gombrowicz and Hasek are the five greats of the 20th century.

>>16600248
Id rather have sex and complain that art has died to art hoes for the social credit.

>>16595132
/s

>>16600248
That’s a bad painting anon so I don’t trust your claim

>>16594084
>Sherlock Holmes is boring
My comrade

>>16595132
go back.

Threatening to commit violence against people you disagree with is fine, they should know how foolish they were.

>>16594084
>Sherlock Holmes is boring (or maybe it's just not my cup of tea)
You're on /lit/, no one here gives a fuck about Sherlock Holmes. Every knows it's genre fiction schlock.

>>16602402

>>16602507
Umberto Eco gave a shit about Holmes in his critique of metaphysics and Italian Marxism

>>16602402
>it's bad because I say it's bad
k

>>16595169
What do you mean? That's the best song on the whole album!

>>16597340
Wow so edgy

>>16593078
i'm russian and i'm not that fond of Dosto.

>>16593173
If you're American this statement holds water.

>>16594720
Eh I don’t agree but I do agree?

There are sections which are extremely bland (eg most of the scenes in the psychiatric hospital) but then there are also sections which are amazing (everything on Pontius Pilate).

Try ‘Heart of a Dog’. Much shorter and lighthearted with a nice theme/meaning. Pretty comfy imo.

>>16593078
Wrong

>>16595169
Pleb filtered.

Holden didn't do anything naughty to Phoebe.

>>16593276
How do you deal with Heidegger, and Holderlin's philosophic works?

What's with the forced meme?

>>16594730
>debunked
Keep /pol/ on /pol/

Poetry > Rest

>>16595961
I’ve read P/P, P, and S/S, and felt myself getting dumber by association every time

Austen’s prose is ugly and her characters are annoying. Personally, I gained nothing but a headache from her work.

>>16596123
She’s not obviously good. She’s obviously overhyped. She fits perfectly next to Nora Roberts and Danielle Steel on the Walmart discount shelf.

>>16602593
They make you read Ayn Rand in burgerland

Reading all of Plato is a waste of time, only Republic, 5 Dialogues, Symposium, and Gorgias are needed.
>>16593078
Not unpopular, but it is true
>>16593279
I'm inclined to agree, translating and making good English verse from Greek is difficult. The Agricultural Revolution is why we have Homer and the other books you enjoy.

>>16594986
Very true, 1984 describes a cult/religion as much as it does a government.

>>16593420
Shakespeare’s best work was his Will

goldstein's book is one of the most interesting parts of 1984

Not an opinion but
>most books I have read have been left leaning propaganda books and have soured by taste for books as a whole along
that and forced annotation which always makes kids overannotates valueless junk instead of getting into their shitty books the teacher gives them

>>16593078
Nietzsche's work is worth very little and the gang who always rushes to his defense online has never read or comprehended him.

>>16607629
This but the opposite.

>>16607668
Based

>>16607668
>>16607676
Shut up you cringecases.

I am gonna say it. If you aren't reading simply for the fun of it, then your are a pseud or a brainlet.

>>16607685
I AM THE WALRUS
YOU ARE THE EGG MAN

>>16607700
Have sex

>>16607705
Is that an offer?

>>16607609
All of the secondary literature on the Greek epics that /lit/ has recommended to me was written by communist jews. Simone Weils was connected to many communist groups while M.I. Finley (born Moses Finkelstein) fled the US because the authorities learned of his direct engagement with underground communist movements.
Really goes to show the kind of people who browse this website, people who only read red shit.

>>16607722
Yeah, it is. Man enough to take it up?

>>16607745
Get ready for the pounding of your life, butt-boy. The two inch menace is cocked and ready, baby.

>>16607748
No, no, no. I am daddy, you are kitten. You WILL present your anus for inspection and you WILL be ready to receive the entirety of my 11 inch anaconda. DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR?

>>16607759
Ah, 'twas a ruse, my dear! The trap is set, the trap is sprung. The butt-boy love, we'll be as one. Together we pound, you cry out with joy! Your anus leaks, my new favorite toy.

>>16607775
Based! How can 11 inch flacid cucumbers ever compete with the turgid magisty of the noble 2 incher?

>>16607775
Your poem sucks and, in case you haven't noticed, my entire arm all the way up to my shoulder is already in your ass.

>>16607736
it was more white guilt type shit than communism is the answer type stuff

>>16607805
The ole reverse reach-around fisting special. A personal favorite of mine when I'm doing my business.

>>16606553
have to disagree; personally, I've gained nothing but pleasure and satisfaction from your mom's work

>>16606607
patently false. show me a syllabus or stfu

>>16607815
Finley attacks hierarchy, Weil attacks whiteness and masculinity.

Surrealism is boring.

>>16597039
Sufferings of young Werther was the most pathetic book about simpery I've read.

Literature can be entertaining

My only unpopular opinion is that I should be a well known, published, well-paid author. I suppose this isn't being exactly fair to myself because many times where my writing is presented, is is approved, and I used to win awards as a kid for my writing.
It's only because both of my parents are only highschool educated that I am cast out from the literary community, which suffers all the more for it.

Minority authors aren’t well-known except for some, because most of the time they are crying about fake narrative like racism and white people.
Men know how to write female characters and if you think otherwise you are a redditor.

The Greeks are all-in-all a snoozefest. The Iliad, Odyssey, Oresteia, Works and Days, and a few other poems are fantastic but most other works are just boring and the secondary literature surrounding the Greeks is terrible.