/lit/ - Literature

pray (but not to ask for stuff like they do in the movies)

>>16585496
Well, why did you lose faith to begin with?

>>16585496
>I cant take this cope anymore.

If you think atheism is a kind of cope then you never lost faith to begin with.

>>16585496
It is both the greatest truth, but also something deeply existential and personal-- Truly you have to discover it from within, even if you may recognise it from without, and recognising it from within may take rejecting it from without, but in the end you will find God. All roads in true philosophy will lead to God, but never in a simple finite relation. What did Weininger that good jew say? "Nietzsche never read Kant and as a result never found God", or something like that.

>>16585556
Watching too many skeptics on youtube

>>16585496
Stop adopting religions, and, instead, focus on your own spirituality, and on those spiritutal doctrines with which you share affinity, or else you will remain in perpetual doubt of yourself, forcing to resign yourself to Judaic herding techniques.

Religion is to videogames what Spirituality is to sports.

>>16585939
>Religion is to videogames what Spirituality is to sports.
Nigger are you retarded?

Nevertheless religion will always be the greatest manifestations of spirituality.

>>16586080
>Nevertheless religion will always be the greatest manifestations of spirituality.

1. That statement is false.

2. Greatness does not neccessarily entail being optimal, and/or being the best.

3. Religion is antispiritual in means, and in end.

>>16586278
>1. That statement is false.
>2. Greatness does not neccessarily entail being optimal, and/or being the best.
>3. Religion is antispiritual in means, and in end.
1. You're a contrarian retard.

study philosophy, especially idealist philosophy. take the advaitapill

>>16585939
Its Religion to Spirituality like videogames to sports fucking moron

>>16586397
>Its Religion to Spirituality like videogames to sports...
No; learn to read.

>>16586397
>>16586453
Alternatively, you could read it like this:
>Religion is videogames; Spirituality is sports.
Though I prefer the first version.

>>16585939
>spirituality
Are you testing me, satan? You thought about eternity for 25 minutes and think you've come to some interesting conclusions? well, let me tell you, I stand with 2000 years of darkness and bafflement and hunger behind me, my kind have harvested the souls of a billion peasants and I wouldn't give a halfpenny jizz for your internet assembled philosophy. Begone to your satanic alms house conversion! Leave here, damned sinning dog of a whore!

>>16585939
Jesus Christ is anti judaic, maybe if you read the new testament you would realize he is a reflection of todays problems, therefore truth.

But anon, being religious IS cope

>>16585496
Read the Qur'an (don't be afraid to disagree, just give it a shot, it's surprisingly based)
Book of Mormon is also canon, but only as a joke.

>>16585496
>I want to cope differently
Then cope differently. What's stopping you?

>>16586816
What do you think of what Carlyle said about Islam?

>>16586846
What in particular do you want to hear about? (I haven't read Carlyle). What I've seen, he sees Mohammad as coming from a place of barberic sincerity, which one might argue is the mode which religion best finds itself promulgated. He criticised the Qur'an for being repetitive and such, which is very common, but the Qur'an was not written to be a book first; it came as a series of revelations over a period of several years. It is sort of like the Bible, where it is also repetitive, but you must understand it to be more than a single work, rather a series of revelations over several (hubdreds, thousands of) years.

>>16586744
>Jesus Christ is anti judaic...
Indeed --what is your "point"?

>...maybe if you read the new testament you would realize he is a reflection of todays problems, therefore truth.
The New Testament constitutes a Judaized corruption of Christian doctrine; even the books, and chapters, that are relatively less Judaized, such as Apocalypse, and the ones pertaining to Jesus, are marred by Jewish meddling, although these are the ones to which you should refer if you plan on recommending the New Testament to someone.

>>16585496
Have faith in the Lord. Believe that His Son came to this world and died to free mankind from the guilt of sin. Believe that one day the Son will come back. Start reading and meditating the bible and praying everyday. Find a church to attend. Strive to put under control and dominate your sins every day. Preach the gospel for non-believers as much as possible. After all this, just wait to encounter the Lord at the end of your peregrination in this world.

>>16585496
>how do i get my retard cope back? i can't take this gay youtube cope anymore
sounds like you never really stopped being religious

>>16585496
Stop being a pussy fence sitter who can't stop clinging to feel good fantasies and just move on already. You know what you believe. You know reading Thomas Aquinas' arguments for god based on outdated Aristotelian metaphysics won't do anything for you. You know Pascal's wager falls apart once you account for other gods. You know you'd be unsuccessfully fooling yourself if you forced belief. Belief just happens. Now go on and enjoy your 50-60 years. At least you get to enjoy your sundays now.

>>16585939
I don't know if you intended this, but there is unironically something spiritual about being a part of team sports

>>16586397
Thanks, kek

>>16587395
>outdated Aristotelian metaphysics
ebin!

>>16585596
Atheism is a cope. Otherwise it would acknowledge being. Yet it doesn't! Curious.

>>16587573
>acknowledge being
wtf does this even mean?

>>16586542
You sound jewish.

>>16587395
>You know Pascal's wager falls apart once you account for other gods
Your were always a retard if you took it for Christianity alone. No, you should realize that it makes nihilism and atheism and things of that sort pointless as it's speaking of the potential wins that exist. You can avoid risks for sure, but if you want to win you must get on with your life and stop doubting yourself.

>>16587592
Atheism relies on the cope belief that consciousness is not the prime being, if it even acknowledges consciousness and qualia to begin with. It puts everything upside down to validate its fanboyism to empiricism.

>>16587639
That would be an ecumenical matter.

>>16587452
Sports that focus primarily on the individual are more spiritual than sports that also have to focus on the collective, because, although the spirit of the latter is communional, the spirituality inherent to the former brings one into closer communion with God, thus facilitating transcendence beyond the mundane microcosmic ambit of sports.

>>16587674
Please fuck off stormfag. You guys have the the midas touch but everything turns to shit. Christianity is what made the Germans great, before it they were a bunch of ugly degenerate tribals, after it they are a bunch of submissive piss fetishists

>>16587674
>...thus [better] facilitating transcendence...

>>16587698
>Christianity is what made the Germans great

So much this. When I think of Germany's greatest features I think of Witch Hunts, Flat Earth Cosmology, abuse of the mentally ill, rampant superstition, pointless holy wars and sexual abuse of children. Nowadays, Germans are cucks who believe in Satanic lies like the Germ Theory of Disease or Lightening Rods.

>>16587698
>degenerate tribals
They weren't civilized but they had proper moral societies. Polynesian islands are what degenerate tribes look like

>>16586542
10/10 larp

>>16587639
Nothing about atheism negates the idea of consciousness or how important it is. In fact, you could be a solipsist who believes his on consciousness is, in fact, THE ONLY THING that exists, and still be an atheist. You appear to have no idea what you're talking about at all.

>>16587831
He obviously means consciousness as something more than the product of a deterministic meat computer, dont be obtuse

>>16585496
I don't see a point in believing in "a god" when we're clearly never going to truly be able to comprehend whatever the hell is out there. Or receive instruction from it.

>>16587844
If you mean a soul, you should just say so, and not muddy the waters by calling it "consciousness"

>>16587698
ok jew

>>16587949
Aren't you the one muddying the waters by pointlessly misrepresenting atheism with semantic talmudry?
>UHM TECSHNICALLY
Fuck off, the idea that the universe itself exists is a part of general atheism, solipsism is a another matter entirely. Don't be obtuse.

>>16587978
You are referring to the concept of "consciousness" as though that alone equals something beyond the material. We have a word for that concept, its called a "soul". I haven't misrepresented anything, atheism is the rejection of the concept of a god or gods. A person can still be an atheist and believe a wide variety of other things. Strictly speaking, an atheist could believe in a higher plane of reality which interacts with the material in an unknown way and still reject all god claims associated with that type of thinking.

Read bhagavad gita unironically

>>16588008
this, also the Upanishads

>>16587997
You're genuinely too autistic to have a serious conversation with. Grow up and move past semantics, level fucking 1 of philosophy

>>16588038
>Moving past the definition of terms without actually defining terms is level 1 of philosophy
Are you for real? If you are using a word incorrectly, nothing you build on from that will make any sense whatsoever. Grow up? Have you looked in a mirror?

>>16585496
You don't. Pandora only exits the box. The thing you believed in before was probably worthless anyway. Not much lost.

Did you ever have any sort of meaningful experience as part of your previous religious life? Or was it mostly a way to tamp down your fear of chaos and oblivion?

>>16588046
>incorrectly
you, an anonymous interlocutor understood that we meant souls without us ever using the word, therefore the idea that we used the word consciousness incorrectly is near impossible.

>>16588008
Or, rather than reading about the atman, you can just meditate. Or practice choiceless awareness in daily life. Or take drugs.

>>16585496
Your discerning, discriminatory mind cannot deliver you. This is the cardinal mistake all philosophers make, as far as I can tell. Not that there's anything wrong with reasoning for sport. Go nuts. But that won't lead you to equanimity.

>>16588112
The drugs path doesnt actually work, the taste of enlightenment you get from some highs is a red herring

>>16588101
I only came to understand you meant "soul" when you added the definition that it was "more than the product of a deterministic meat computer". That is the definition of the word "soul", not of "consciousness"

>>16588140
It's only a red herring if you take drugs for anything but glimpses. Or as tests, at heroic doses. Last time I took a big dose of psilocybe I realized (afterward) that I had been in the bardo. I was not in control. I was an imprint, I was my karma. And I saw that I still had much work to do.

>>16588112
Meditate and read. but I put forth reading because this is /lit/

>>16588143
Well, before that was someone else not me, but when someone is referring to consciousness as something basically mutually exclusive with atheism what else could they mean? Either way im done with this i never had a dog in the fight

>>16588163
Fair enough, anon. Maybe I would be clearer by saying OP has come to the wrong place if he's looking for equanimity. Maybe you can stumble onto that path after the right lit. But lit usually just inspires, works as fuel for a while. Most need a technique.

Though there are plenty of good books about techniques. The Mind Illuminated, The Science of Enlightenment (and accompanying Unified Mindfulness material), etc. Still the long way around, IMO.

>>16588143
>>16588179

You niggas are funny.

What is consciousness? What is awareness? What is qualia? What is form, and what is emptiness?

These are impositions of a problem-solving machine on an otherwise unconcerned whole. Smile at the corners of your mouth and relax. Everything is perfect.

>>16588179
"Consciousness exclusive of atheism" is pretty silly and convoluted. You might as well say "A state exclusive of communism". If what you meant was a capitalist state, just say so, if what you mean is a soul, just say so. So many people needlessly obscure what they are actually talking about just to shove in the fact that they are the antithesis of some particular label or group.

>>16588194
The other guy gets off on being explicit and you
on being implicit, huh

>>16588194
>Both sides are stupid but I have the answer by not having an answer
You are the embodiment of a meme

>>16585496
>cope
Religion is the ultimate cope

>>16588279
>implying

Not really. I dunno, maybe. I just think conversations about what is or isn't consciousness, what is or isn't the soul, are funny. I don't mean to imply one of you actually thinks such a definition is possible. Although at least one of you seems to think so.

>>16588291
this

>>16588290
>not getting it

I didn't say either side was stupid. I don't think either position I'm reading here even qualifies as a side. The pathfinding protocols running inside the heads of two apes, engineered by endless life/death cycles to help move genetic code from point A to B in spacetime, are coordinating proprioception and muscle memory to type questions about objective and subjective experience into a computer. It's funny.

What conceptual take on reality leads you to think of this all as anything fundamentally different from a dream? You think your concepts and reality are the same thing? Can you experience reality more directly than via concepts?

Pro-tip: yes.

>>16588322
I am sympathetic to the idea of determinism as you have laid it out here, but you're likely to get roasted by many other posters here, so I'll leave you to your fate

>>16588338
My position is not necessarily deterministic. I certainly will defend agency as an experience, anyway.

Just so long as you don't call me a materialist.

>>16585496
Maybe this is off topic but can any Christposters here explain why it is that God imbued humans with free will?

I'm thinking mostly about this in the context of Abraham - it seems like the point of his story is that it's a good idea to cast away all of one's decision making faculties in favor of total faith in the sovereignty of God's will even when the possible results of God's will are immediately abhorrent to us. Why give people free will in the first place if we're just supposed to forget about all that and listen to God no matter what?

Not trying to shitpost here. I'm actually curious what the Abrahamic position is on this.

>>16588392
Follow-up question: if the answer is to test people, is the Creator testing his creations, tossing those who are unfit into the pit forever, specifically so that he is help only with a brood of subservient worshipers who are best suited to sing his praises for all time?

>>16585496
The act of contrition will do

>>16588392
From what I understand, God wants genuine worship from beings that have the power of choice. He did not want to have automations who would just automatically submit.

>>16588542
Same. God created us imago Dei. That means that we were given all of the attributes that God has, specifically morality, free will, charity, grace, mercy, and such. Sin scarred this image, creating a bombed out shell of what we once had. Depending on individual denomination, some of this is up in the air, like calvinist and armenian, but it isn't too particularly important so long as you repent of your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, follow the great commision, love God, and love others as your self.

>>16587639
damn nigga ur retarded :D

>>16588542
This makes sense to me to a certain extent, but if faith in God is the ONLY valid answer to an existential question, then what's the point of letting us trying to figure things out for ourselves in the first place? Why even bother letting us ask the question if there's only one right answer?

Also, if faith in God is all that matters for salvation, then what value does free will add to someone arriving at that conclusion? What's the difference between someone who believes in God because they arrived at that conclusion through their own cognition and someone who just kind of blindly accepts faith in God because someone told them to?

>>16588355
Okay, well, the next time you refer to me as an ape, at least refer to me as a great ape

>>16585496
convert to Islam, it is the basedpill and fixes the broken corrupted parts of christianity

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11819/how-to-become-a-muslim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr6qY35tp7s&list=PLO6UOamuwnEJiJeAjTTO9A9auNETpGgA8&index=16&ab_channel=RabbnaAllah

>>16585496
Start trying to emulate Christ (be good, forgive others, help those that need it, love others) and you should find yourself pretty satisfied.
I don't even go to church anymore I became so fed up with the hypocrisy and the emphasis of Paul's letters, not the teachings of Jesus.
>mfw I hear the Bible being used as a guide to modern life instead of a way to leave worldliness behind and become a better person
>mfw I hear more verses about Paul's teachings than Christ's

>>16588008
This.
>>16585496
Also learn about eastern orthodox theology. Theosis, Hesychasm and the like. Learn Buddhism also. Ultimately read Guenon.
You only get out what you put in.

>>16585496
Read Spinoza, anon.

>>16589544
This.
>>16585496
Watch Jesus of Nazereth on drugs and realise
>if you want to be perfect, sell everything you have and give it to the poor then come follow Me.
You have to realise that your relationship with God is personal, not collective. Your soul needs to find where it reconnects and the church can be a barrier to this.

>>16588392
>>16588542
This latter post.
>>16588664
Faith is what They want.
>blessed are they who have not seen but believe.
>>16590055
Dont.
>>16585496
Start a cult based on the didache and Q sources without church innovations.

>>16589440
This, ultra based.
There is only one god