/lit/ - Literature

>>16577349
>And why did the last chapters about Holden and Phoebe almost make me cry
Rape is tragic, anon.

>>16577366
Wtf, did holden rape her??

>>16577349
>And why did the last chapters about Holden and Phoebe almost make me cry
well that's good, rape isn't funny

>>16577388
I didn’t catch that at all, did he rape her?

>>16577349
He rapes his sister, Phoebe.

>>16577421
no he didn't it's a meme on /lit/ for some reason

>>16577452
imagine being proud to be filtered by a book read in high school classrooms

>>16577452
Why?

>>16577421
Did you notice how his dad molested him in the first paragraph? Apply those reading skills to what happens in and in between the two chapters in Phoebes bed. Oh why did you have to go do that?

>>16577349
(1/2) And if you look closely at Catcher In The Rye, there are odd moments of Holden watching the skater, or sitting in his young sister’s bedroom — Holden with his gray hair, remember. But an Existentialist reading, in full critical flower when Salinger was publishing and still fragrant in his work today, forgives almost everything. It’s all about “alienation,” his fans maintain. Okay. But these facts remain: about 75 percent of Salinger’s fiction centers on characters under the age of 21, and of that, about half on girls under the age of twelve.

On a surface level, the relationship between the sixteen-year-old Holden Caulfield and his ten-year-old sister Phoebe appears to be a strong and affectionate brother-sister bond which has generally been praised by critics.However, under closer scrutiny, Holden and Phoebe express feelings and actions for each other which are well along the slippery slope that leads to incest and pedophilia.

Salinger begins his assault on his male readers’ subconscious by having his anti-hero state that he is a “sex maniac” and describing sexual activity designed to open his reader’s subconscious to such behavior. Holden admits that he would do some “very crumby stuff ” Although, in fact, Holden’s “crumby” squirting fetish seems relatively harmless, incest and child abuse are definitely not in the same category.

Holden Caulfield’s sister Phoebe is also idealized as a sort of Madonna, most saintly and yet most desirable. Salinger described Phoebe as “nice skinny” and “roller skate” skinny”. With his descriptions, Salinger is connecting the subconscious mind of his young male readers to the idea of a sexually desirable but underage girl. At the same time, because of the Madonna-Whore complex, Holden Caulfield is blinded to his sexual attraction towards his sister; as is the casual reader.

"But you ought to see old Phoebe. She has this sort of red hair, a little bit like Allie’s was, that’s very short in the summertime. In the summertime, she sticks it behind her ears. She has nice, pretty little ears. In the wintertime, it’s pretty long, though. Sometimes my mother braids it and sometimes she doesn’t. It’s really nice, though. She’s only ten. She’s quite skinny, like me, but nice skinny. Roller-skate skinny. I watched her once from the window when she was crossing over Fifth Avenue to go to the park, and that’s what she is, roller-skate skinny. You’d like her."

Were you filtered? What institution is Holden telling his story from. It isn’t a TB ward

>>16577491
Wtf no? His dad fucked him?

>>16577508
My parents are touchy

Especially my father

First fucking paragraph.

>>16577500
I’m just a lit noob wanting to discuss the book I just read

>>16577349
He rapes his sister, Phoebe.

>>16577498
(2/2)
Holden then makes a secret visit to his sister’s bedroom. He describes himself as a criminal because he is trying to avoid an encounter with his parents, but it also creates a sinister subtext for the midnight tryst with Phoebe.

"I got off at our floor–limping like a bastard–and started walking over toward the Dicksteins’ side. Then, when I heard the elevator doors shut, I turned around and went over to our side. I was doing all right. I didn’t even feel drunk anymore. Then I took out my door key and opened our door, quiet as hell. Then, very, very carefully and all, I went inside and closed the door. I really should’ve been a crook.

It was dark as hell in the foyer, naturally, and naturally I couldn’t turn on any lights. I had to be careful not to bump into anything and make a racket. I certainly knew I was home, though. Our foyer has a funny smell that doesn’t smell like anyplace else. I don’t know what the hell it is. It isn’t cauliflower and it isn’t perfume–I don’t know what the hell it is–but you always know you’re home. I started to take off my coat and hang it up in the foyer closet, but that closet’s full of hangers that rattle like madmen when you open the door, so I left it on. Then I started walking very, very slowly back toward old Phoebe’s room."

Holden finds his sister asleep in his oldest brother’s bed. The fact that she is in an adult’s bed suggests that Phoebe is ready for adult activity.

"Finally, after about an hour, I got to old Phoebe’s room. She wasn’t there, though. I forgot about that. I forgot she always sleeps in D.B.’s room when he’s away in Hollywood or some place. She likes it because it’s the biggest room in the house. Also because it has this big old madman desk in it that D.B. bought off some lady alcoholic in Philadelphia, and this big, gigantic bed that’s about ten miles wide and ten miles long. I don’t know where he bought that bed."

Holden describes his sister’s bed and asks the bizarre question: “What’s old Phoebe got to spread out?” Phoebe would presumably answer that she needed the room for all her books and papers. Holden answers his own question with a denial, stating that Phoebe has nothing to spread out. But Salinger knows that his readers’ subconscious will suggest another answer – her legs.

"Anyway, old Phoebe likes to sleep in D.B.’s room when he’s away, and he lets her. You ought to see her doing her homework or something at that crazy desk. It’s almost as big as the bed. You can hardly see her when she’s doing her homework. That’s the kind of stuff she likes, though. She doesn’t like her own room because it’s too little, she says. She says she likes to spread out. That kills me. What’s old Phoebe got to spread out? Nothing."

>>16577498
>>16577530
(3/4)
Holden finds his sister asleep but – for some reason – he notices that her mouth is open, and imagines spit all over the pillow. This connects to subliminal visions of oral sex, and Holden’s facial squirting fetish.

Anyway, I went into D.B.’s room quiet as hell, and turned on the lamp on the desk. Old Phoebe didn’t even wake up. When the light was on and all, I sort of looked at her for a while. She was laying there asleep, with her face sort of on the side of the pillow. She had her mouth way open. It’s funny. You take adults, they look lousy when they’re asleep and they have their mouths way open, but kids don’t. Kids look all right. They can even have spit all over the pillow and they still look all right.

Salinger describes Phoebe’s clothes next to the bed, suggesting her nakedness. Caulfield’s narrative avoids mentioning whether she is wearing a nightgown, although he is generally very attentive to Phoebe’s attire. Much later, Holden notices that Phoebe is wearing sleeveless pajamas.

I went around the room, very quiet and all, looking at stuff for a while. I felt swell, for a change. I didn’t even feel like I was getting pneumonia or anything any more. I just felt good, for a change. Old Phoebe’s clothes were on this chair right next to the bed. She’s very neat, for a child. I mean she doesn’t just throw her stuff around, like some kids. She’s no slob. She had the jacket to this tan suit my mother bought her in Canada hung up on the back of the chair. Then her blouse and stuff were on the seat. Her shoes and socks were on the floor, right underneath the chair, right next to each other. I never saw the shoes before. They were new. They were these dark brown loafers, sort of like this pair I have, and they went swell with that suit my mother bought her in Canada. My mother dresses her nice. She really does. My mother has terrific taste in some things. She’s no good at buying ice skates or anything like that, but clothes, she’s perfect.

Holden wakes his sister up. They immediately began a physical relationship that is described as “too affectionate”. Holden thinks it is “too affectionate” presumably because of its sexual nature. Holden returns the hug with a kiss. Is this “too affectionate” as well? Salinger directs the readers’ attention away from this question, quickly bringing their interaction back to a level of chatty banter.

She wakes up very easily. I mean you don’t have to yell at her or anything. All you have to do, practically, is sit down on the bed and say, “Wake up, Phoeb,” and bingo, she’s awake.”

“Holden!” she said right away. She put her arms around my neck and all. She’s very affectionate. I mean she’s quite affectionate, for a child. Sometimes she’s even too affectionate. I sort of gave her a kiss, and she said, “Whenja get home?’ She was glad as hell to see me. You could tell.

Did antonili rape castle? Wtf while I was reading this book I Thought it was quite wholesome but now I find out it’s all about rape, fags and molestation?? Jane was raped by her step father also right? Fuck sake

>>16577537
(4/4)
They talk about a flirtatious interaction Phoebe has had with another boy in her class, Curtis Weintraub. He pushed Phoebe down the stairs, because Phoebe had painted ink on his windbreaker. Salinger has Holden chide the ten-year old Phoebe for her childish tit-for-tat behavior, while hinting on the contrary that she is an adult ready for sex.

“ What are you–a child, for God’s sake?”

Salinger descries Holden and Phoebe having rough physical contact on their bed, as Phoebe is outraged to learn that Holden has failed again at school. While the conscious mind is focused on the drama of their conflict, the subconscious is simultaneously tantalized with images of sex play.

“I told you. They let us out early. They let the whole–”

“You did get kicked out! You did!” old Phoebe said. Then she hit me on the leg with her fist. She gets very fisty when she feels like it. “You did! Oh, Holden!” She had her hand on her mouth and all. She gets very emotional, I swear to God.

“Who said I got kicked out? Nobody said I–”

“You did. You did,” she said. Then she smacked me again with her fist. If you don’t think that hurts, you’re crazy. “Daddy’ll kill you!” she said. Then she flopped on her stomach on the bed and put the goddam pillow over her head. She does that quite frequently. She’s a true madman sometimes.

“Cut it out, now,” I said. “Nobody’s gonna kill me. Nobody’s gonna even–C’mon, Phoeb, take that goddam thing off your head. Nobody’s gonna kill me.”

She wouldn’t take it off, though. You can’t make her do something if she doesn’t want to. All she kept saying was, “Daddy s gonna kill you.” You could hardly understand her with that goddam pillow over her head.

In response to Phoebe’s withdrawal, Holden pinches Phoebe on her ass. While Holden tells us this is playfully “just for the hell of it”, there is no denying Salinger’s intent here, which is to trick the reader into accepting that such invasively flirtatious behavior is normal between affectionate siblings. But wait, let’s do a double take: Holden is sixteen and is fully mature sexually, while his sister is still a child. Uuugh… this is NOT okay. Note that Phoebe’s attempted retaliation is completely ineffectual. One must ask: why has such a book become mandatory reading for America’s young adults?

“No, I didn’t,” I said. “I passed English.” Then, just for the hell of it, I gave her a pinch on the behind. It was sticking way out in the breeze, the way she was laying on her side. She has hardly any behind. I didn’t do it hard, but she tried to hit my hand anyway, but she missed.

Salinger describes Phoebe’s mouth is an awkward position. Within the context it suggests the possibility of oral sex.

Old Phoebe said something then, but I couldn’t hear her. She had the side of her mouth right smack on the pillow, and I couldn’t hear her.

>>16577546
Yes Jane was raped. Antonio is just gay and paternal and Holden misreads and older gay man caring for a gay adolescent in crisis as sexual. Yes Holden is gay. Reread the locker room scene about sexy Stadtler.

>>16577537
>>16577530
OP here, at first I wasn’t quite sold but after reading these summaries + THIS

>His father, Sol Salinger, traded in kosher cheese, and was from a Jewish family of Lithuanian descent,[4] his own father having been the rabbi for the Adath Jeshurun Congregation in Louisville, Kentucky.[5]

I am now convinced it’s a pedo book. No wonder they force American teens to read about it

I feel disgusted now, should I even have this book up on my shelf?

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/bspuc4/catcher_in_the_rye_is_it_about_coping_with_the/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Look at all the people in denial in the comments, god Jewish litterateur makes me sick

> I mean, the relationship between holden and phoebe was so beautiful and pure, and you want to do that to it... I just can't believe the whole book would be quite so crassly Freudian, where catching or not catching a single hidden detail about holden's childhood ( if he was molested) is the key to understanding the whole thing.

>So, in context, when holden's 10 year old sister asks if he wants to sleep with her, obviously, obviously, she just meant sleep.

Why do reddit Cucks refuse to see the truth

>not one paper or article talking about this
>"hurr you got filtered dude"
KYS

>>16577703
Lol it makes so much sense now that they talked about it. It’s easy to see, + the fact that the author is Jewish seals the deal

>>16577703
It isn’t a significant enough analysis to publish. You’d need to add theoretical material on child portrayal and rape.

>>16577519
In my translated version (I read it in another language), it translates back to English literally like "my parents are sensible with these things, specially my father."

>>16578303
Touchy is a double meaning. The book is full of them. Hard to translate. Shame your translator fucked the dog in the first paragraph.

I got weird vibes from Seymour kissing Sybil's feet in A Perfect Day for Bananafish. Was this normal in 50s America? /lit/ has convinced me subconciously that Salinger was a pedo

>>16578506
>>16578448
>>16578303
It’s all MK ultra programming to indoctrinate the young minds. There’s a reason Americans are forced to read this book in school

>>16577520
Well you need to reread it.
Holden is in a mental asylum.
He is repressed gay.
He was repeatedly molested by his dad
Jane was raped by her dad
Something weird happened with Alphie
Holden rapes Phoebe while drunk

>>16577349

>>16578573
Yeah I started to read analysis of it after u guys commented. I’m shocked and disgusted desu, the amount of fucked up stuff I didn’t really catch, MK ultra is some serious shit.

He raped the shit out of phoebe while he was drunk, just like Jens step father rapes the shit out of her while he was drunk.

“What’s phoebe got to spread, nothing”
“Sleeping in an adult bed”
“I’ll come with you I won’t even bring any clothes if that’s what you want”

This book is fucked up and I feel sick after realizing it

>>16577519
>"My parents are touchy"
>Anon interprets this as meaning he was raped
Yep, is another case of anglos ruining everything.

>>16579476
imagine being this dumb

>>16579506
>imagine being this dumb
You know not every culture is your culture, right?
In muslim countries is quite common (or at least it used to be) grown men holding each other hands. No homo.
Thus Holden Caulfield didn't do nothin'!
This is a tired meme here on lit/. Every time we talk about this book there's some retard bringing this bullshit about.
I suppose this is the only thing able to drag their attention to literature.
-Is MUST have some kind of faggotry/conspiracy otherwise I won't read.
That's how they think.
It grows weary after a while. Not fun at all.

>>16579506
>>16579506 #
>imagine being this dumb
You know not every culture is your culture, right?
In muslim countries is quite common (or at least it used to be) grown men holding each other hands. No homo.
Thus Holden Caulfield didn't do nothin'!
This is a tired meme here on lit/. Every time we talk about this book there's some retard bringing this bullshit about.
I suppose this is the only thing able to drag their attention to literature.
-Is MUST have some kind of faggotry/conspiracy otherwise I won't read.
That's how they think.
It grows weary after a while. Not fun at all, bro.

>>16579649
imagine being this dumb

>FUCKING PHONY FAGS GET THE FUCK OF MY BORD

>>16579663
imagine being this fag.
I bet you never had a little sister.

>google “did Holden rape Phoebe”
>first (and only that had any kind of analysis) result is a Reddit post
>the guy’s only evidence is that he finds Phoebe and Holden’s relationship creepy
>this theory is entirely because of autistic bugmen who can’t fathom love and confidentiality between siblings

>>16577491
>>16577519
>taking a quote out of context
>actually taking a fragment of a sentence out of the context of the sentence because you’re reaching to justify your retardation
By touchy he means that they get offended easily. The absolute state

>>16579782
>misinterpreting the context at this level
Holy shit faggot, you really are dumb

>>16577519
This take is retarded, pedos see pedos everywhere. Projection only.

>>16577637
These takes are midwit.

>>16579795
You are pedo projecting your faggotry on a character because it makes you feel normal.

this is depressing. one of the last places sensibly to discuss literature online and a few of you shat it up for my favorite book with a terrible meme.

>>16579795
>seeing pedophilia everywhere because he was raped as a kid
Sad desu

>>16580008
Learn to read you fucking moron.

Bump

>>16580008
I am starting to think there is some little group of faggots perpetuating this meme as le ebin ruse

>>16577421
No, he pinches her butt once and now /lit/ likes to meme that Holden raped her (even though he obviously did not)
It is a great book, read it for the first time last year and liked it a lot.

>>16577547
>Salinger descries Holden and Phoebe having rough physical contact on their bed, as Phoebe is outraged to learn that Holden has failed again at school. While the conscious mind is focused on the drama of their conflict, the subconscious is simultaneously tantalized with images of sex play.
kek, if anyone actually thinks this then they have less critical thinking skills than the high schoolers who stop thinking at "holden whiny"

>>16581679
Yeah he doesn't rape her when he pinches her arse. He rapes her between the chapters.

I can see you've never read a hostile narrator text. I bet you think Lolita actually is called Delores. Read closer Lenny.

>>16581790
Ah yes, he raped her between chapters and then she was all hunky-dory with him in the later chapters. And clearly her sleeping in the bed of her dead brother means that Holden fucked her in said bed. Also,
>reddit spacing

>>16579845
Excuse me i am a pedo and i don't agree with this

>>16581826
she’s sleeping in DBs bed, the older brother, sleeping in an adult bed, suggesting she is ready for adult activity.

The book is written by a Jew with deep ties to CIA, it is a psy op book meant to destroy the minds of young Americans. It is so fucking obvious

“What does phoebe got to spread, nothing”
“I have to beat it”

>>16579723
Yup, I'm thinking /thread

>>16582603
Sheep

Any coincidence people just say "rape" for Catcher in the Rye and Stoner to derail each thread? They must think it's funny because it allows them to be a part of the /lit/ meme community.

>>16582936
Father molested Holden
Antonili molested James
Antonio tried to rape Holden
Janes stepdad raped her
Stradtler raped Jane
Holden molested Phoebe

>>16583097
Don't forget James Castle being driven to suicide by bullying at Elkton Hills

Read between the lines

>>16583131
Yeah, what They did to him was so horrific Holden wouldn’t describe it, aka sodomizing with an object up the anus

>>16583332
And who comes to pick him up? The nonce antolini who had probably already fucked that guy up the ass many times.

Disgusting

>>16577366
>>16577388
>>16577529
>>16577546
>>16578626
You fucking retards, the book passed right above your heads. It's all an analogy about the taming of society and of the destruction of the working-class spirit in neo-calhounian brutalist rat hives that we call modern cities. Read between the lines, like me, I read between them so much, it's almost as if I didn't read the book at all.

>>16577477
Thats an excellent question. Though I'm not certain, I think it started with a schizoid poster who genuinely believed it, so it started getting posted as a meme (and still is to some extent), but now some of the youngins have started to buy into it. A shame really, as its a good book, and theres no shortage of Salinger works that DO deal with that subject matter, though often more muted.

>>16579723
>first (and only that had any kind of analysis) result is a Reddit post
It's really not, you fucking brainlet. learn to BSQ properly, Mong.

>>16581826
>>16581679
Legit retarded

>>16582418
>she’s sleeping in DBs bed, the older brother, sleeping in an adult bed, suggesting she is ready for adult activity.
Or it just means that she misses having older siblinegs in her life to relate to
>“What does phoebe got to spread, nothing”
That literally just means that she doesn't have the emotional baggage that comes with age, you delusional pedo
>>16584189
What analysis is there that shows Holden raped Phoebe, you retard?

>>16585246
https://postflaviana.org/a-pedophile-fantasy-in-the-rye/

Cope more

>>16585289
>written by a literal who on a literal who website
wow, quite the strong evidence anon
next you'll quote a medium.com article written by you, kek

Imagine not noticing the rape on the book

>>16585326
Cope faggot

>>16585289
>In a prior article available on this site, J.D. Salinger’s book The Catcher in the Rye was shown to contain a hidden symbolic level that depicted Holden Caulfield’s initiation into the Freemasons.
Kek'd on the first sentence

>>16581826
>she was all hunky-dory with him
>Why did you have to go do that? By which she meant

>>16584168
Read waruso. It’s got my argument stated fully in 2014 or so

>>16586498
Notice how Holden tries to utterly obliterate Phoebe by explaining what she said to the reader? You cant believe anything Holden says. He wasn’t even feeling drunk eh?

>>16581790
>>16582418
>>16577547
>>16577537
>>16577530
>>16577498

Wonderful bait, but nah. I feel like this doesn't even require argument to dismantle which is why I call it bait, but I'll run over it anyway.

The book is about Holden and his inability to adjust to the adult world. It's an overarching symbolism of adolescence through a short time span narrative where he has a variety of encounters of the type of adults people can turn into once the infinite potentialities of childhood comes to an end. He constantly feels misunderstood, cut off, out of place, and part of that is his simple inability to act the way they want him too, he asks beyond surface level questions, gets emotional and holds expectations of everyone around him beyond what they're willing to give him. The book reflects on his frustrations with that feeling.

Every so often throughout the book we are reminded of his little sister Phoebe without actually meeting her, she is made a geist in the audiences head, this idea of childlike innocence which has yet to be corrupted like Holden is seeing in the adults around him. We start to get this idea after all his constant rejections that phoebe is the only one he can be himself around. He is simply scared to grow up, so he lives in fantasies of moving away and calling up old girlfriends.

Point is, he seeks her out as he knows she only has a few more years before that childlike innocence fades away and that's why the scene on the carousel is so poignant, he is just savouring the moment as his childhood has ended, but not hers. He's not 'sexually mature', he's sixteen. He LITERALLY rejects a prostitute then gets punched for it.

And hell, to finish it off I'll just quote a quote you used.
>"She wouldn’t take it off, though. You can’t make her do something if she doesn’t want to"

>>16586901
It’s still rape: children can’t consent.

>>16587288
pedos will seethe

>>16587288
Yes, especially if they never had sex in the first place, I'll reiterate, He simply wanted to see her without facing his parents about him being expelled, that visit is simply a buffer between facing real world consequences, by hanging out with his kid sister and just chatting, that's all.

Its like a purgatory, after all those "adults" that hurt him throughout the book, he expects even more shit from his parents, so he just wants some time to see the only person who won't endlessly judge him and the person we've been hyped up to meet the entire book.

Isn't the fact that his teacher made a move on him and he leaves straight away + rejecting the prostitute more proof of the fact that Holden is someone who stays away from this corruption?

>>16587364
The teacher doesn’t make a move on him. You’re reading Holden as if he’s honest. In the first paragraph he lets you know that he’s deliberately leaving stuff out because his father raped him.

>>16587364
> Isn't the fact that his teacher made a move on him and he leaves straight away + rejecting the prostitute more proof of the fact that Holden is someone who stays away from this corruption?

It is but you’re debating with a retard who’s begging the question.

>>16587388
>begging the question

About twenty times since I was little.

>>16587387
Alright you made me get my copy out. What do you mean first paragraph? First chapter?

>My parents would have two haemorrhages a piece if I told anything pretty personal about them

Yeah he says he's leaving the 'boring' stuff out. Sure you could say "oh hes 16, hes repressed the experiences or he's too ashamed to talk about it, or he fears what would happen if he did talk" Sure, I get that interpretation and won't fully denounce it, but I really see the book as more of a struggle with the death of childhood, plus Holden's mental experience of basically being A.D.D, which I feel is a very important theme, since his teacher eventually calls him out on it, and we can only assume he's in this mental institution due to some kind of outburst or breakdown which made him a danger to himself or others.

>You’re reading Holden as if he’s honest

I know he's an unreliable narrator, but I think every word in the book can be translated into a sort of objective reality if you filter it through what you know Holdens biases are. Like, the more you learn about him the better you get at reading into what was 'really' going on. I think Holden is trying to be honest, he isn't lying intentionally, he just doesn't know the purpose of whatever he's being interviewed about in this mental institution. So he just talks in his personal dialect. To me the book has a very... "Everyone around me is so perverted and dirty and for some reason its always directed towards me"... I'll go as far as considering Holden was sexually assaulted as a kid, but I'm not convinced he does anything to Phoebe.

>>16577349
enjoy being mkultra'd

>>16587481
What do adults do to children in holdens experience as a child? Janes dad. His dad.

Also “where do the ducks go in the winter?” They go down under the ice.

Holden is telling a story he’s told at least twenty times before while inside. Read for the two honest “non phoney” lines a chapter. They break through his self narration.

The rape isn’t the most important part. But it is a great filter for people who can’t do New Criticism.

The absolute projection takes in this thread.
>>16577546
Congrats retard, you've been gaslighted.

>>16587524
>>16577547

This is a comment from the post where this whole theory is from.

"I don't like this interpretation at all, especially the part with phoebe. I think you're taking individual sentences way out of context in a way that doesn't fit with the theme of the book to imply something horrible that isn't there. I think you're approaching book analysis wrong-treating it like a series of disconnected puzzles or riddles that you either see or don't see, rather than as a coherent whole. Like, you're treating it like a murder mystery-notice how a scrap of green cloth was found on the victim, and later we learn the hostess was wearing a green dress! The whole novel shouldn't, and doesn't, turn on whether you spot a clue deliberately hidden amongst a longer passage of irrelevant details, such that the whole thing is pointless if you don't spot them.

Also, I think you're looking at it in a more modern context than the one it was written in-we're more willing to see pedophiles hidden behind every corner nowadays than in the past, see for example your entire post, and 'misery porn' memoires of people who were sexually abused by their parents are popular. So I don't think the detail of someone pinching their child sister's ass would be supposed to make people immediately think of pedophilia back then.

I mean, the relationship between holden and phoebe was so beautiful and pure, and you want to do that to it... I just can't believe the whole book would be quite so crassly Freudian, where catching or not catching a single hidden detail about holden's childhood ( if he was molested) is the key to understanding the whole thing.

So, in context, when holden's 10 year old sister asks if he wants to sleep with her, obviously, obviously, she just meant sleep."

>>16587620
>Especially my father
Mental asylum

It’s begging for basic Freudian interpretation with Holden set up as a hostile analysand

Also back in the day the rich didn’t send scholastic fuck ups who went on a bender to mental asylums. They sent them to military colleges.

Asylum is where you send someone for crimes against the person if you’re rich.

>>16587620
Stop, just stop. You are arguing with a troll.

>>16587664
I feel sad for you. Please never do theology or history.

>>16581673
someone doesn't know how to engage in subtext

google close reading, kid

ah yes, holding cauliflower, the character obsessed with the preservation of innocence and a sexual abuse victim, is indeed a rapist all along.
bravo, jd salamander

>>16588180
Who could imagine that moralists are hypocrite sinners. I’ve never seen a story with that message.

>>16578657
No, Seymour is sort of attempting to reclaim some innocence through childhood, it’s predatory but it’s not clear where exactly it’s coming from. That ambiguity is part of what makes the story work.

>>16588342
Meant for >>16578506

I don't much like to see old guys in their pajamas and bathrobes anyway. Their bumpy old chests are always showing.

He sat up more in his chair and sort of moved around. It was a false alarm, though. All he did was lift the Atlantic Monthly off his lap and try to chuck it on the bed, next to me. He missed. It was only about two inches away, but he missed anyway. I got up and picked it up and put it down on the bed. All of a sudden then, I wanted to get the hell out of the room.

You can't stop a teacher when they want to do something. They just do it
I'm the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life.

>>16589429
>>16589411
I dont understand the people here who refuse to see the obvious. Do they just not want to admit their childhood book is actually an MK ultra book with a shitton of rape, faggotry, molesting and incest in it?