/lit/ - Literature

and then one day you grew up and realized neither you nor your friends were right because of subjectivity.

>>1652177
explain what you mean

i agree with you OP

aaaand i'm out

>>1652188
>explain subjectivity
Children these days.....

>>1652188

bananas are obviously more delicious than blueberries

>>1652177
>>1652198
That Frank Herbert is a genius in not subjective in any important ways.

>>1652177

so basically what your telling me is you have no idea what your talking about?

>>1652198
>>1652177
>he thinks everyone's opinion is equal, and matters!

No one has yet to say whether or not they think Frank Herberts literary garbage is worth a damn

I enjoyed Dune, it was an interesting read. Couldn't give a fuck less beyond that.
Fine, he's a genius.
Fine, he's a hack.

>>1652177
>and then one day you grew up and realized neither you nor your friends were right because of subjectivity.

Such talk undermines the very point boards like /lit/ exist. Pray, "pretend" that something may be considered good independent of one's opinion concerning it and thus facilitate conversation concerning the quality of the work in question, rather than insist that this conversation end immediately and never be brought up again.

>>1652227
> Pray, "pretend" that

stopped reading. It is no longer the 19th century, so you're really going to have to stop writing like that if you want people to take you seriously.

>>1652227

>mfw human monkeys are trying to argue bananas are objectively delicious

>>1652227
>independent of one's opinion

no man has access to such a realm.

>>1652227
It may be objective regarding ones taste, but this doesn't mean that there aren't objective traits about authors that you can discuss. I believe that Frank Herbert creates a world that I enjoy reading, making him a -good- author. It's hard to qualify anybody as being a genius, but I would like to know what qualifies him as a hack. Not that you accused him of being one.

I agree with OP also, Frank Herbert is way overrated in my opinion.

>>1652208

No, I think everyone's opinion is equally worthless.

Not sure what all the hoo-hah is about Dune being the best sci-fi book of all time. I hated Paul and Jessica and wanted Feyd-Rautha to slash his throat in the duel. The supporting cast was awesome (Gurney Halleck, that mentat guy and Duncan Idaho), but I can't call it the best sci-fi book of all time if I hate the main characters to the point where it nearly spoils the book for me.

Really enjoyed the original Dune, the one by Frank Herbert.

Everything his son wrote was awful. As was the film adaption.

It's not the best Sci-fi book I've ever read but it is still very good.

dune = 7 pillars of wisdom + drugs + sf

>>1652930
dune = captain picard + agent cooper + john cavil

Twilight was a better book by far ! ! ! !

all the people i know who like it are hard science majors and they tend to have not the greatest taste in fiction so i'm wary

>>1652942

Grammar much?

>>1652970

"whom like it"?

>OP
>Arguments given: 0
>His friend:
>Arguments given: 0

>>1652166

American Literature doesn't exist. American writers are incapable of literature.
The consensus which I have heard from so many speakers from so many nations is that Americans are so naive that they don't know what they are, and that every American has a childish simplicity to their black-and-white, under-developed, monocultural mindset. Sure this is a generalisation, but they just don't share the lofty provincial wisdom of the French or the sullen, phlegmatic introspection of the British for instance. These broadminded, philosophical qualities are essential for literature and can only be found in old nations; cultures which interact and have had the shit kicked out of them by each other for milennia.

He's a bit if a hack, but he does possess some talent for world building. Dune is pretty good and well worth reading, a bit of the law of diminishing returns kicks in with the sequels and I've heard bad things about his other stuff, but the Universe and ecological background for Dune and Arakkis in particular are well laid out and interesting. Its a shame he couldn't have come up with more convincing characterisation.

Good but flawed.

>>1653053

Americans have a great love and incapability of thinking outside their ideology of Uncle Sam, their version of democracy, liberty and freedom etc. (utter lies by the way - Americans scorn their own for any cultural deviance; "heck, that's just plain UNAMERICAN, son" is a phrase we have all heard before)

>>1653053

if your not wearing a smoking jacket and holding a snifter of brandy then you're a faggot troll and i hope you get run over by a riding lawnmower

>>1653053
lol
Told beyond the infinite.
I like Dune, though.
Also, this thread is shit.

>>1653053
Bullshit. Raymond Carver, Eugene O'Neil, James Baldwin, Stuart Dybek, many more. 90% of American writers are actually shit, but then 90% of everything is shit.

Eurofag here btw.

American freedom = freedom to conform to American values

American democracy = Whoever has gained the most wealth has the most power

American prosperity and opportunity = the opportunity to fatten yourself on the most wealth by exploiting native workers and non-entrpreneurial Americans and exploiting the native Americans' land.

...but these three factors are seen as the glowing gifts of an all-American God by the people of the USA. They think the sun shines out of America's arsehole. It doesn't. American shit stinks as bad as anyone else's.

Frank Herbert is obviously a drug user; each and every book he wrote hinged around drug use and the effects of drug use.

Oh shit we got some brit-fags in here ! ! ! ! ! ! !

>>1653053
>>1653058
>>1653066

Hey, go to /int/. You can whine about it all day there.

>>1653066
Those are certainly the ideas of the American ruling class, but those are not the ideas of all or I'd argue, most Americans, particularly writers, whose job it is to understand their own society. There are certainly some writers like that, and many commercial writers who aren't at liberty to inject their own ideas into the work they produce, and a few people who are just genuinely right-wing cranks (like AE Von Vogt Tom Clancy or Terry Goodkind) but there are plenty of writers born and raised in America who don't agree with their own system. Ursula K. LeGuin, Samuel R. Delaney, Upton Sinclair, Chuck Paliahnuk, Arthur Miller and WEB DuBois for example, and I could go on.
Still a Eurofag btw.

>>1653053
You made that in the last 50 years American literature has been much better than British and French literature? Heck in the last 100 years American literature has been better than French.

I have a friend who argues that Kesha Sebert is a genius and I (among many others) say she is a hack popstar whose album Animal and remix album I Am The Dance Commander: I Commander You To Dance are pieces of shit and hold no real place in musical or American pop culture history.

>>1653053
When you say "American writers," you better mean, "writers who are culturally 'American.'" Otherwise, you sound like an idiot.

>>1653053
Here, I'll give you a list to start with:

As I Lay Dying
The Sound And The Fury
Gravity's Rainbow
Death of a Salesman
The Glass Menagerie
Herzog
An American Tragedy
The Sun Also Rises
Moby-Dick
Leaves of Grass
A Long Days Journey into Night
Collected Poetry of E. E. Cummings
Collected Poetry of Williams Carlos Williams
The Bridge by Harte Crane
Collected Poetry of Emily Dickinson
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
East of Eden
Harmonium
The Recognitions
Where I'm Calling From (Collection)
Everything That Rises Must Converge

>>1653058
You are conveniently bottling a very stereotypical Republican mindset and attempting to market it as the "American."

>>1653110
spot the Canadian writer

dune has an interesting story, but it's very poorly written.

>>1653116
Oh, so America can claim T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound now? Sweet.

>>1653115
And not even all republicans are that bad, though most of them probably are. Basically he is saying all of America is the Tea Party.

Dune was poorly written, the main charcters are shitty, and frank herbe is a junkie.

I agree, twilight was amuch stronger story with well written characters and an interesting love intrest. Oh and fuck u if u don't like america, you don't love america and all the freedom we enjoy than u can get the fuck out of my country.

>>1653122

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

I love how Euros can be as xenophobic and as bloodthirsty and as close minded as they want, but Americans are the only ones who get shit on for it.

Also, there is no American literature? What a stupid thing to say. Anyone who seriously believes that a country--any country at all--is incapable of producing fine literature is obviously either a troll or utterly ignorant. Anyone who seriously believes that Americans have never produced fine literature is obviously blind.

The dune SERIES were a fantastic portrayal of cultural relativism, religious engineering, and outlook philosophy broaching on many subjects. I love the rich immerse world portrayed by Herbert. One could almost think all you had to do is introduce the geriatric " spice melange" into our world and the fiction that is dune could unfold. I think Verne would be proud. And to comment on the other posts of people saying they hated most of the main "protagonists" I would argue that it's the beauty of his writing, being able to blur the line between the ideals and except for a few characters with no redeeming qualities, subject everything to cultural relativism rather than stark black and white pre rendered literature format of good and evil.

Fuck Dune, fuck Herbert, fuck his fans and you are all retards if you ague in favor of the man who wrote the worst science fiction series in history. Star wars is much superior, stoy was better, the world was much more imageinative and vast. Jar jar binx could probly write a better novel.

Star Wars, this guy 8=======D-- ({})

Star wars is agreeably better than dune, I dare anybody to prove differently. George lucas vs frank herbert, lucas wins by a landslide.

Holy shit, has anyone here actually talked to one of us amerifags outside of 4chan?
The only message the eurofags are sending out is that loving your country is bad.

Trollin is a art