/lit/ - Literature

I bet the author doesn’t even read tafsir or traditional Muslim scholarship. What a pseud book

>>16518536
Whose tafsir?

>>16518526
Who cares. All religion needs to be castrated and modernized for our times. And sharia is only going to be prevalent in Saudi Arabia and a couple other shit holes.

>>16518526
Yes, a perfect example of what nietzsche called Ressentiment

>>16518536
You realise you just asserted something and that dismissed it on that alone?

>>16518526
I am always torn when a book comes like this comes out, because it's good that the average person might learn a bit more about why importing a foreign horde that we've been historically at odds with for a thousand years might not be the best idea.
But at the same time, it's always written in defense of the neoliberal status quo.
>no not my hecking secularised state
>not women's rights!
>omg, they are coming for the wine!!
Forgetting that the people that reduced our culture to being rootless drones who defend the "values" that keep them slaves, are the people that are involved in importing them into Europe.

What we need more of is books in the vein of "Islam have the right idea, but we don't need their fucking people to utilize it".

>>16518548
>Tafsir (Arabic: تفسير, romanized: tafsīr [taf.ˈsiːr]) refers to exegesis, usually of the Quran. An author of a tafsir is a mufassir (Arabic: مُفسّر; plural: Arabic: مفسّرون, romanized: mufassirūn). A Quranic tafsir attempts to provide elucidation, explanation, interpretation, context or commentary for clear understanding and conviction of God's will.

>>16518526
>Muhammad details the qualities of a good wife, including that “she obeys when instructed” and “the husband is pleased to look at her.” The Koran decrees women’s subordination to men in numerous other verses

Oh no, how horrible, etc.

I'm not a Muslim, and I don't care for Islam. But what really bothers me is this inability to engage Islam outside the framework of Liberalism (in the broad meaning of the word). Seriously, how many of these criticisms amount to: "Islam doesn't share my culture's values!" Well, no shit. When you proceed from a different starting point, you'll arrive at a different conclusion. If Islam is correct, then it's moral system will likewise be correct, and no amount of moaning about how that moral system doesn't align with your own culture won't change that fact. Criticisms of Islam must be directed at its "ground" - its vision of God, Muhammad's claim of prophethood, and so forth - rather than its conclusions.

>>16518588
I said whose not who's

>>16518587
Have sex. Your shitty life and ugly appearance doesn't mean we need any of that bullshit. Fuck off to Saudi Arabia if you want suppression of freedoms.

>>16518562
Bullpill post of the month

>>16518592
>Criticisms of Islam must be directed at its "ground" - its vision of God, Muhammad's claim of prophethood, and so forth

That doesn't work. You don't work with a man of religion by questioning his faith, that's the quickest way to get stonewalled, or fucked up. However modernized religion is completely acceptable and makes more sense, there are plenty of moderate Muslims nowadays. You're not going to win by telling them Muhammad is not the prophet, are you crazy?

>>16518712
It's not about winning arguments. It's about finding the truth. Anything else is just bad faith.

>>16518718
And they 100% think their religion is truth. That will not work here, you would have a better chance of winning the lottery every day of the week than convincing a Muslim Muhammad is not the prophet. That's the power of religion, they'll do anything to protect their faith. And that goes for any religion.

>>16518743
No, Muslims aren't "immune" to conversion. Stop watching so much television.

>>16518768
>Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd (Arabic: نصر حامد أبو زيد, IPA: [ˈnɑsˤɾe ˈħæːmed ˈæbuˈzeːd]; also Abu Zaid or Abu Zeid; July 10, 1943 – July 5, 2010) was an Egyptian Qur'anic thinker, author, academic and one of the leading liberal theologians in Islam. He is famous for his project of a humanistic Qur'anic hermeneutics, which "challenged mainstream views" on the Qur'an sparking "controversy and debate."[1] While not denying that the Qur'an was of divine origin, Zayd argued that it was a "cultural product" that had to be read in the context of the language and culture of seventh century Arabs,[2] and could be interpreted in more than one way.[3] He also criticized the use of religion to exert political power.[4] In 1995 an Egyptian Sharia court declared him an apostate, this led to threats of death and his fleeing Egypt several weeks later.[4]

>Among other things the court declared that the verse authorizing the discriminatory jizya tax on non-Muslims `is not subject to discussion`, and that owning slave women is allowed under certain conditions by `clear` Qur'anic verses `that we must follow`.[17][18][19]

>According to conservative Islamist scholars cited against Abu Zayd by the plaintiffs, the professor was an "ignorant proponent of the Enlightenment `who understand freedom of thought to mean freedom to lead the people to infidelity". Another called Abu Zayd's work "cultural AIDS" and "intellectual terrorism."

>>16518768
Yes and Christian's aren't "immune" to conversion and being convinced Jesus is not who they say he is. Muslims think the same things. You just want to convince people of your specific religion because you think it's better, that's all you care about. Religions have been arguing and warring over "the truth" since the beginning.

>>16518796
You're arguing against a figment of your own imagination.

>>16518885
Clearly you have an agenda of converting people to other faiths.

>>16518562
>Religion needs to be castrated and modernized for our times
You really need to take a look back through history; it is your fundamental western desire to "castrate" religion because you belong to that American school of thought in which atheism and Christianity and Judaism ought to mean the same thing, whereas Islam is the "other" that must be eliminated.

Unfortunately, as far as I can see, life doesn't work out that way because life is a finite thing encompassed by an infinite that as Shakespeare's Hamlet says "puzzles the will." So long as there are people, they will realize that life is thus meaningless, too meaningless to grovel for the consoomer existence ordained for them by their masters. This is why war is a spiritual thing and all spirituality is violence against established norms, hierarchies, ideas and governments "the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force" (Matthew 11:12).

The only question honestly about spirituality and religion is what form will the violence take? In the case of Islam, they take a very literal approach to this, but they have a self-evident right to shut America out of their world as much as the Americans shut the British out from theirs. Remember that the Americans said that they made their Republic a nation under God; they were a Protestant Mujahedeen in their day.

This is why you will never castrate religion, for so long as men can look beyond the confines of the material conditions of existence, violence will be the result. You would have to lobotomize people in order to make them worship an animal existence.

>>16518526
Isn't the author a kike?
Anyways, read the Quran. Just read it.

>>16520047
It's Robert Spencer, he certainly looks like one. He's financed by the 'former' communist jew David Horowitz.

legacy.quran.com

>>16518526
>>Muhammad details the qualities of a good wife, including that “she obeys when instructed” and “the husband is pleased to look at her.” The Koran decrees women’s subordination to men in numerous other verses
I wish I were born muslim so bad

I read some of it a while ago,its pretty much him whining,rambling and pushing his anti-Islam agenda/narrative for 269 pages,
Just read the actual Quran yourself and form your own opinion

>>16518548
>Whose tafsir?
Mine

>>16518663

>>16518526
I don't like Islam, but Robert Spencer is a notorious liar, which is typical of Jews. I've caught him in several lies.

>>16518548
Everyone asking whose tafsir, but nobody asks about tafsir's possessions...

This may be redundant, but we've got a live one on our hands....


Have you ever felt the trembling?

Pass along the message, meet again at 10.

>>16522825
eat a dick

>>16522800
>Spencer was baptized in the Greek Orthodox Church and joined the Melkite Greek Catholic Church in 1984. In a 2006 interview, Spencer stated that his grandparents were forced to emigrate from an area that is now part of Turkey because they were Christians

>>16521128
What's the basis for Abdullah Yusuf Ali being "outdated"?

>>16522843
I could have sworn I've read somewhere he's Jewish. Since he's from Turkey, he could be Dönmeh, which are known to conceal their identities. Regardless, I don't care about his actual background. I've caught him in several lies, and I don't like how he conflates his criticism of Islam with contemporary politics.
For example, he claimed Iran and Europe were never friends. However, Safavids and French had a strong alliance. Even Jean Chardin and Montesquieu spoke positively on the Safavids. There are intercultural change during that period, hence why a lot of Iranians say "merci".
That's an example of the kind of lies he gives.

>>16522866
>strong alliance
strong alliance to ward off the Ottomans*

>>16522800
Anon, Jews are not the only person who hated Islam. In Muhammad’s time, his worst enemies were the Arab pagans.

>>16518617
Whose Tafsir is it anyway

>>16522894
I don't know, I thought he was Jewish because he looks like one and always pushes Zionism hard. He could just be a Turkish Christian, but it's possible he's a Dönmeh. They a "a group of Sabbatean crypto-Jews in the Ottoman Empire who converted outwardly to Islam, but retained their Jewish faith and Kabbalistic beliefs in secret."

>>16523127
Yeah, I think he's Dönmeh.

>>16519344
And you just want to poison the well, just fuck off already.

>>16523127
"Had you known the magnitude of our suffering as a result of the injustice of the Jews against us, with the support of your administrations for them, you would have known that both our nations are victims of the policies of the White House, which is in fact a hostage in the hands of pressure groups, especially major corporations and the Israeli lobby.
the Israeli lobby in America. The details of that are explained by two of your fellow citizens. They are John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt in their book The Israel Lobby in the United States.

After reading the suggested books, you will know the truth and you will be severely shocked at the magnitude of deception that has been practiced against you. You will also know that those who make statements from inside the White House today and claim that your wars against us are necessary for your security are in fact working along the same line of Cheney and Bush, and propagating the former policies of intimidation to market the interests of the relevant major corporations, at the expense of your blood and economy. Those in fact are the ones who are imposing wars on you, not the mujahidin. We are just defending our right to liberate our land.

If you thoroughly consider your situation, you will know that the White House is occupied by pressure groups. You should have made efforts to liberate it rather than fight to liberate Iraq, as Bush claimed. The White House leader, under such circumstances, and regardless of who he is, is like a train driver who cannot but travel on the railways designed by these pressure groups. Otherwise, his way would be blocked and he would fear that his destiny would be like that of former President Kennedy and his brother.

In a nutshell, it is time to free yourselves from fear and intellectual terrorism being practiced against you by the neoconservatives and the Israeli lobby. You should put the file of your alliance with the Israelis on the table for discussion.

Do you like the Israelis’ security, sons, and economy more than your security, blood, sons, money, jobs, houses, economy, and reputation? If you choose your security and stopping the wars — and this has been shown by opinion polls — then this requires that you act to stop those who are tampering with our security on your end. We are prepared to respond to this option on sound and fair foundations that have been mentioned before."

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_Statement_(13_September_2009)