/lit/ - Literature

>>16512931
>Number of refutations so far: 0
Because it’s pseud drivel

It's self-refuting.

>>16512931
Thomas Ligotti is like Eduard von Hartmann, but keep in mind, even Eduard von Hartmann called Julius Bahnsen's philosophy "psychopathic". Something about Julius Bahnsen's philosophy is much more pessimistic than anything Ligotti touched.

>>16512931
He's still alive. He refuted himself.

>>16512976
I don't think he advocated for everyone to rope ASAP even once.

>>16512931
I cannot refute that which I will not read.

>>16513800
pussy

>some people live a joyful life
there's your refutation

>>16512931
Probably the stupidest, cringiest, cry baby ass seething woe-is-me book I have ever read in my life. It reads like a teenage girl's diary who just got dumped. It's like Notes from the Underground if the main character had been an IRL person that psueds actually took seriously. Biggest seethe fest I have ever read in my life. You want a "refutation" my refutation is quit being a little bitch and man the fuck up.

>>16513830
Well his main point was that we delude ourselves into seeing meaning in life because the alternative (a finite life that is inherently meaningless) is too much to bear for most people.

>>16512931
Branwell is the refutation to Conspiracy Against the Human Race

>>16512931
mahayana buddhism does

>>16512931
God refuted it thousands of years ago sweety.

>>16512931
People tend to get ludicrously buttmad about this book and what it implies.
No refutations or otherwise in here have even attempted anything more detailed than a bland attempt at watered down stoicism by way of Christian views they were raised under.

>woe is me
Woe is everyone, the deluded and the sane.

>>16512931
The philosophy of pessimism is just as weak as its supposed naivety of its counterpart, le Optimism. I get the whole curmudgeon-y hatred of Optimism as it seems like to sell anyone anything you have to be all superficially smiley, but really, to just reverse that is just as much bullshit in my book.

>Universe is MALIGNANTLY USELESS

this is probably just grandstanding to look cool, but to say that something is useless, you presuppose that something useful exists. etc.. who gives a fuck. Pisses me off though that some dumb teenager might get this book then possibly hang themselves, but either way, if you hang yourself ur dumb as shit...

>We don't have free will bc we're just multiplicities, i.e. forces.

Right, well what are those multiplicities composed of? Smaller multiplicities? Other forces? ... imo this just turns into (((infinite))) regress. Not buying it not now not ever. Plus mechanistic understanding of the universe from cause and effect could clearly be just as much a byproduct of human perspective on reality as Free will is. The fundamental truth about why we're here is still : MYSTERY.

>yadda yadda strawmanning exoteric readings of religions to strengthen my clearly *toxic* atheism
yikes

Don't wanna sound ghey here but from experiential forays into the beyond I've pretty much concluded that if you want to "know" more about why we're here you have to let go of syllogistic thinking, it's just too slow a vehicle to deal with the excesses of information speed on the other side, jussayin.

>>16513896
How does he have sex

>>16514074
>le
>ur
Back to whatever gay club you hail from

>>16512931
If you ever began with the assumption that meaning and purpose existed outside if human minds you were mistaken. We also experience every second of our lives from that perspective so it actually does matter.

>>16512931
Here‘a my refutation, don’t have clinical depression.

>>16514089
I think we all know he doesn't have sex.

>>16514328
This

>>16513848
Sounds like projection.

>>16513800
So fucking convenient.

>>16513848
In most debates it would be considered a fallacy to say that the opponent only believes what they believe for emotional reasons. Perhaps he deludes himself that life has no meaning to convince himself he didnt miss out on anything? It all goes both ways.

>>16513848
How is life inherently meaningless? You people keep parroting this phrase and you expect people to understand why you think that. What exactly makes you think that life is inherently meaningless? Even if it's true why can't you just create you own meaning and stop whining? You people are so pathetic.

>>16513896
this kills the nihilist.

>>16514089
Sex is unnecessary.

>>16514074
thats the bio Under q's ligottster Video and i feel ashamed for knowing that

>>16512931
>Ligotti
A faggot hack.

>>16515037
> Even if it's true why can't you just create you own meaning
Meaningless statement.

>>16512931
My refutation is that Ligotti looks like an incel

>>16513896

>>16513842
What ideas or thoughts in the book did you not like?

>>16515037
>Even if it's true why can't you just create you own meaning
That's the point, meaning is created within people's minds but they're only fooling themselves. Anyway, he addresses this point and many more in the book itself. You might as well give it a chance, the book doesn't just repeat that "life is meaningless" pessimistically, it's actually very open-minded. For example, he acknowledges the fact that most people in the world could not be counted amongst the unhappy. In the end he has an atheistic view of life, he discusses nihilism, existentialism and pessimism but his final analysis is that human beings must live as what they are not via fooling themselves and one another. The book is not meant to proclaim pessimism as much as it is meant to be a work of literary criticism and general discussion of philosophy, discussing the subject of philosophical pessimism from multiple angles, ultimately giving an objective analysis of the nature of the human condition, as opposed to one emotionally biased toward "pessimist" negativity.

>>16515127
No it's not, how do you suppose that you were born?

>>16516265
Not that anon but sex isn't necessary in determining the merits of a person especially when they're just a kind forest hermit.

>>16513973
>People tend to get ludicrously buttmad about this book and what it implies.

That’s enough enough to suggest to me that it has massive merit.

>>16514074
>Don't wanna sound ghey here but from experiential forays into the beyond I've pretty much concluded that...

Uh. Yeah. Go home and trip to your weenie some more, Tao.

>>16512931

>>16516258
Yawn

>>16512931
each microscopic segment of this book is self-consistent and irrefutable.
macroscopically it is a tedious, weak mess. this guy seems like he would be such a fking pain to be around, and he himself admits this in the book which means "i just dont understand" him etc etc ugh. like the underground man.

maybe there is something to pessimism, i do understand and empathize with the sentiment he expresses in this book, i just think ligotti is not a capable enough writer / smart enough person to make an effective presentation of these ideas. what he has written is the opposite of poignant and just makes me hate myself more for ever thinking the way he does. these ideas are like that of a man who never outgrew their suburban high school phase where they were mean to mom and didnt finish his broccoli because it is yucky

>>16512959
yep

I haven't read Ligotti, but I'm 99% sure it is refuted by pic related.

>>16513896
>>16516228
it takes Hegel 1 (one) paragraph to comprehensively dispel all this "create your own meaning" garbage at its very core.

>>16513848
What does he mean by "meaning"? For example, intuitively I would say that my life has meaning at least insofar as I care about my loved ones, and their well-being. Isn't "care for others" a valid meaning in life, even though it might not have been assigned by God?

>>16516780
Forgot the pic

>>16516766
hahah that pic look dumb

>>16513896
>>16516228
>>16516796
Forest anon refutes a lot of ideas just by existing. Humans like that are a huge blot on the nihilists framework of thinking, I've noticed they are really the only ones who seethe over his lifestyle.

>>16516796
What paragraph exactly?

fuck yeah dude. this book is metal as fuck. i remember i would read it after class while listening to black veil brides during lunch break. one time this group of stacies started laughing at me because i was headbanging to the breakdown of "knives and pens" which made me feel nihilistic as fuck. as if i cared what those used up old roasties thought anyway. and then when i went home i put on some csgo and i was just sucking. my retarded npc teammates were just messing evereything up and blaming it on me and i just smashed my gamer mouse against the wall. that's when i truly realized what ligotti was trying to tell me. i was already smart because i knew that there was no god, it was all just chemicals and stuff and that existence was pointless because space is really big and the earth is so small. but existence wasn't just pointless... it was malignantly useless! those dumb roasties and my teammates weren't just dumb, they were totally pointless... but the worst part of all is that so was i... i was just as evil and pointless as they are... but unlike them i embrace my evil and my pointlessness... when i opened my eyes it was like i was looking at a whole new world. and i vowed from then on that i would always bee as evil and as useless as i could... that's why i dropped out of high school and i just smoke weed and read comics all day. i'm never going to get a job, i'm not going to pretend that life has value anymore... i'm not going to be a slave to a society that doesn't have meaning, i don't give a fuck what my family says. i hope if i meet tommy ligotti i can thank him for opening my eyes! \m/

>>16516986
PoS paragraph #209. the constructions in that section leading up to that paragraph encompass the philosophies in the pics

>>16517032
How does Hegel's view of freedom dispell defining one's own life?

>>16516994
Did you make this pasta yourself anon?

>>16513848
When people say "meaning" in this context, what they often really mean is "purpose". And on the contrary, just the other day I was reflecting on how freeing, how much of a relief it is that a human life doesn't have one. A hairbrush, a loaf of bread, a chair, these things have a "purpose" because they're designed for a specific use by some other being with its own interests in mind. Humans are not like that, humans are the beings that have those interests. Identify your interests, emotional, biological, mental, interpersonal, and fulfill those.

>>16516548
It's necessary for the continuation of life (sex itself is nothing more than procreation, "sex" is the ritual and all its associations towards this simple act humans have put on top of it) but I see what you are saying of course, whether or not an individual regularly partakes in it is no sign of their merit.

>>16516994
Slit my wrists and hope to die

>>16517195
Fresh from the pot

>>16513800
He's only delaying the inevitqble. He should honestly just do it

>>16512931

retroactively refuted by phaedro

>>16512959
No it isn't

>>16512931
There are no refutations. It's ultimately an exercise proving the pointlessness of materialism and rationalism. These are tools for cutting and sooner or later you're going to hit an artery, spilling your blood and leaving you a husk. Someone more versed in these areas will be able to cut you unless you've decidedly taken a stand against both materialism and rationalism. People get mad about him for this book but it's actually a work of great empathy. A real believer would just take the money and run, never telling anyone about the conclusion of thoughts like these.

>>16513896
Damn just thinking about this guy. Hadn't watched any of his videos since that first thread he posted. Didn't realize the mad lad had to evacuate because of a forest fire.

>>16517145
First I assume the philosophy in the pics is something along the lines of "abstract stuff doesn't matter, gonna go live in the woods and build shit lmao"

Hegel's thrust in this section is to demonstrate that such philosophies are turned inward in a way that makes them fail to examine themselves and reality effectively, and that there is a fundamental contradictory dissatisfaction in them. (I'll admit it takes more than one paragraph) They make you live with a double standard about one's separation from reality. In your mind you demote the outside world as being an inessential aspect of your self, to which you are only tenuously connected through your senses. At the same time, merely by having experience you are undeniably coping with reality's essence in a way that you're saying doesn't reach your true self.

The stoic or skeptic might retort they decided they don't care about this abstract mumbojumbo nonsense, and return to play in their puddle of mud. Isolated by their mental bindings, true nature beyond inspection, things are only as they are sensed empirically, let alone others which appear as mere apparitions. Have fun in the woods, alone, building your buildings that empirically exist according to your senses, doing things that matter as long as "you" "determine" for "yourself" that they matter.

>>16512931
people get so mad it's hilarious.

>>16518408
this sounds like one big cope.
also
>"gonna go live in the woods and build shit lmao"
fuck off forest anon is based and your psuedo philosophical bs is as meaningless as you believe your own life is

>>16518609
who's coping now?

>>16518408
You really could have shortened this to "There is no objective meaning, simply because you exist" which to be honest is typical hegelian bush beating drivel. If anything it lends more credence to Branwell.

>>16518408
>sees hobo in woods
>writes three paragraphs about hegel

>>16512931
>What zero pussy does to a nigga.

>>16518873
This is very true. But it's not about the pussy in itself, it's about the nature of being deselected and seeing yourself as nothing more than a walking genetic dead end while simultaneously being able to talk about it as lucidly as possible. There's also the understanding of this experience being a constant, genetic dead ends must necessarily be born and subsequently be disposed of for all eternity

>>16516766
>where they were mean to mom and didnt finish his broccoli because it is yucky
legitimate reason to be mad at ur mom. she brought u into this world without your consent and now you exist as a thing that needs to eat constantly and shes asking you to eat wierd plant thing that doesnt taste good and deprives you of one of the most fundemental pleasures of tasty food??

all the refutations to nihilism or anti natalism seem to attack the teen-y image of the philosophy rather than make arguments. but its association with teens makes sense. teens are honest and they havent gotten tired of the truth and made up delusional copes like adults yet.

>>16512931
ligotti had a medical condition where he literally couldn't feel pleasure. the book isn't necessarily wrong, it's just written from a completely different perspective to almost all other people and will naturally reach conclusions that don't apply to us "normal" people

>>16512931
Laird Barron, More Dark, impliedly refutes it (or perhaps refutes Ligotti, as such).

http://revelatormagazine.com/fiction/more-dark/

>>16518621
you still are

>>16519652
Why does it refute Ligotti ?
I need a reason before I read that short story.

>>16518609
>>16518668
work on ur reading comprehension

>>16518757
yep

>>16519262
agree

>>16518408
Why does forestbro make people seethe this bad

>>16519769
It doesn't. It appears to mock him, in an inside-jokey sort of way (I say "appears" because I am not an insider as to the apparent jokes).

>>16518305
it was bad we thought his shack was gone forever. its crazy to see how close the fire got to it before stopping.
>>16520735
those aren't people anon, they're nihilists

>>16518408
>Have fun in the woods, alone

I think a world where can create your own meaning and purpose is pretty cool, it's better than serving god

>>16519262
Based

>>16521763
I remember reading Camus when I was 15

>>16521899
I remember getting a blowjob from your sister at the same age

>>16521904
Lol seethe

>>16518105
Yes it is.

>>16521899
that's not Camus, he doesn't think you can create your own meaning. ridiculous that like a century of people have continued to call him an existentialist when he explicitly wasn't.

>>16519341
It's true. It's known that Ligotti is afflicted with a severe case of BTB (being too based)

>>16521763
It's better to LARP than to actually be happy and fulfill your calling?
How does that make any sense?

Someone give me the quick rundown on this

>>16522178 #
I was more so referring to the fact that the same people who make such trite remarks are the same ones who view people like Camus as profound

>>16522178
But it seemed like he believed in engaging with a surrogate for meaning, no?

>>16522285
He believed in 'rebelling' against the absurdity of existence and acting as though there were meaning or something. Gigantic cope imo, it doesn't even outline any specific ethics.

>>16512931
has anything in this book made your life any better?

>>16522184

that is called being trapped in basedworld