/lit/ - Literature

That wasn't predictable at all...

>>16507610
>retard professor (a white woman with green hair) has forbidden us from using adverbs because it promotes "bad writing"
>few of the other students have read anything besides harry potter yet consider themselves writers
the rest sound like good things

Not using adverbs at all is retarded, but alot of people over rely on them to convey emotion and just tack on what the character is feeling after every sentence so not overusing them is a good habit to get into

>>16507610
I'm in 3 CW classes and I'm experiencing the same exact bullshit. Narcissistic classmates on Zoom talking/bitching about a peer's story who had a trans character, for 3/4th of the class time. If it's not something petty, it's always more low effort garbage, saying a story is "WELL WRITTEN / RELATEABLE / GOOD DETAIL / REFRESHING" - there's never anything about how to strengthen a scene, or how to make it better, it's all just low effort or lazy reading bullshit that could be applied to anything.

Oh and I forgot to mention my own story (objectively the best written one in the entire class and I say this without an ego) got only a lukewarm response compared to this dumb bitch's memoir of cheating and whoredom, and some stupid fucks even had the audacity to call it "pretentious" because I "used semicolons and sounded like I thought I was better than everyone else".

The Humanities are dead. My favorite professor subtly encouraged me to head for the hills as fast as possible.

>>16507679
>my own story (objectively the best written one in the entire class and I say this without an ego)
>sounded like I thought I was better than everyone else
yea weird
they were correct unless maybe if you post your story

>>16507736
>>16507679
This, post your story.

>>16507610
>in the USA
well of course it is

>one girl submitted a story about how she got wet while watching her boyfriend get beaten up by a drunk
>dumb bitch's memoir of cheating and whoredom
sounds fake and gay OP.

took a screenwriting course once and feel kind of the same with regard to the shit stories you are forced to think up praise for. luckily it was mostly focused on technical stuff like structure and types of stories etc., so overall i'm glad i took it since i still have use for it and look at the notes from it even though it's been years

>>16507610
If you have to be taught how to write, you can't write. And fuck your sex-starved, motorcycle-huffing lebso professor as well.

>>16507679
Call them out anon, don't let your morals get in the way of doing what's right.

>>16507771
Starting to realize this more and more. I enrolled into a CW program, and I realized that the only use for it is that it gives you an allotted time to write. The critique from your peers is always low effort/detrimental, because it's mandatory for grade points, and they were never taught how to critique. The professor is probably too busy writing their own shit to give a fuck. If you want to be an author, read books, see what newly published books in your genre do, and then learn how to do it in your own way.

>>16507776
You know that he's just going to get laughed at.

>>16507658
Yeah probably good training wheels to have on, over-reliance on adverbs is the first hallmark of a schlocky writer

>>16507610
You expected what? That the other participants would all be America's next crop of great writers?
As the for the adverb thing, take it as a temporary creative restraint which will stimulate growth. You don't have to stick to it later.

>>16507826
>As the for the adverb thing, take it as a temporary creative restraint which will stimulate growth. You don't have to stick to it later.
How about I don't? Fuck off with your reddit advice, midwit. It might work for a genre pleb like you but those of us with talent don't need these pedestrian constraints. So go fuck yourself.

I had a playwrighting workshop where some old guy yelled at me because all of my characters were alcoholic degenerates who cursed a lot.

>>16507811
>A few light taps upon the pane made him turn to the window. It had begun to snow again. He watched sleepily the flakes, silver and dark, falling obliquely against the lamplight. The time had come for him to set out on his journey westward. Yes, the newspapers were right: snow was general all over Ireland. It was falling on every part of the dark central plain, on the treeless hills, falling softly upon the Bog of Allen and, farther westward, softly falling into the dark mutinous Shannon waves. It was falling, too, upon every part of the lonely churchyard on the hill where Michael Furey lay buried. It lay thickly drifted on the crooked crosses and headstones, on the spears of the little gate, on the barren thorns. His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead.

>>16507826
This, and you also have to keep in mind that if anyone in your peer group "makes it", it will probably be in 10-15 years from now. You can't expect 20 year old writing students to produce work that will blow you away.

>>16507805
Not if he says the right things and keeps his composure

>>16507826
>take it as a temporary creative restraint which will stimulate growth
wait a sec, you mean his college professor may have been trying to teach him something?
yea OP's a typical dumbfuck 20 year old who thinks he knows it all
OP, why are you paying to go to college if you already know anything and aren't going to listen to anyone? just go be the rockstar author you already know you are and make those millions

>>16507610
I'm about to start my English Lit degree and I think the first year I have to do a creative writing course. Even if it's this awful, forcing me to write sounds like a bonus.

>>16507866
He should listen to his professor, but he's right in saying that peer critique is generally garbage.

>>16507866
You finished retard? I'm attending college to LEARN, adhering to an arbitrary constraint that anecdotally helps pozzed reddit midbrains not write like dogshit is not going to help someone who is both talented and serious about the craft. It's a waste of my time.

>>16507877
Can you post a story so we can read it? I won't judge how it is now, but how good you'll be in a decade.

At first I sympathized with OP but he's really making an ass of himself ITT. Rein it in fella, you're not the tortured genius of the literary world

>>16507885
Nah, feel free to continue sucking on my dick though faggot.

>>16507610
>Don't attend any creative writing classes or workshops at college and this totally not made up story of shit that never happened that even reeks of stale copy pasta will show you why

>>16507897
Lad, you're not going to make the 15 + year hellish journey that is becoming an author. I can tell that you expect immediate gratification.

>>16507874
I had to take a creative writing course as well. It really wasn't too bad. Definitely had a few reddit tier pseuds in the class, but I learned a few things that were pretty helpful. I just magically came down with an illness on both days that we had to read our stories to the class

I really want to just go to college for english but covid ruining everything

>>16507907
I think OP might be a troll. No one can be this mentally ill, right?

>>16507913
Covid is preventing you from making a terrible financial decision

>>16507907
Actually I already have an agent who thinks I'm worth representing. But keep projecting dumbfuck.

>>16507920
Why are you so afraid of letting us read your workshopped story?

>>16507679
>sounded like I thought I was better than everyone else".
That's because you are, king.

>>16507681
Same thing happened to me, I had one professor for like 3 straight semesters and we got along really well. He knew I wanted to be a professor and eventually told me it's futile and not only is the job market going down the drain but so is the actual quality of work and what kind of work is being sought out

>>16507877
post your story bitch, cuz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCIo4MCO-_U

>>16507897
>Nah, feel free to continue sucking on my dick though faggot.
yea you sound like a real literary genius

>>16507920
Kek, I remember being like this three years ago. I almost think that being an arrogant young writer is a rite of passage. There's so much that you definitely do not know about the craft, but I wish you luck on your journey anon

>>16507920
>Actually I already have an agent who thinks I'm worth representing.
Take your meds OP, your delusions are acting up.

>>16507917
Like I give a fuck about a financial decision, who gives a fuck. Education is more important and writers are in demand and will continue to be.

>>16507835
post some of your writing

>>16507929
Yeah I definitely don't think going for tenure is a good idea right now. The education bubble seems like it may pop soon. People are already fed up with dropping the price of a new house on a degree that doesn't even promise an entry-level job anymore

>>16507679
Based

>>16507957
Oh for sure, way too many people are going to college now, it's just high school 2.0 at this point

>>16507943
>writers are in demand
Ah, yeah, all of those writers making my coffee at starbucks are definitely in high demand

>>16507771
sooo, if I naturally gravitated towards writing without having to be taught much outside of basic punctuation and grammar rules, does this mean there's a chance for me?

>>16507939
>>16507938
>>16507937
Kek are the midwits mad? I'm not going to post my writing on here because it actually stands a chance to get published, not just to get published, but if published in the right mag, to go on to win an O. Henry prize and begin my legend. This isn't amateur hour. It's not some retard's sci-fi novelette like you're used to seeing. It's a display of Serious Literary Talent. I can't waste it on you lot.

>>16507986
pic related is OP

>>16507610
Based.

>>16507986
Post prose

You know it's a larp because if OP really was this arrogant, he'd love to show his writing and think /lit/ would call him based for it.

>>16507680
>Going to college for anything art related
Yeah that's where you fucked up, cause I'm pretty sure you don't need 3 CW classes for engineering.

>>16507976
Ah, yeah, you know the personal lives of everyone who hands you an item. You catch some radiation or something?

>>16508030
>he doesn't inquire and investigate the lives of everyone he interacts with
Never gonna make it as a write desu

>>16507679
>sounded like I thought I was better than everyone else".
But you are!

>>16507610


>>16507986
You are in fact extremely pretentious even in basic communication. I wonder what a mess your actual writing is

>>16508030
Well, I live in Hollywood where every other person is a failed writer, so it's not too much of a stretch

>>16507835
i doubt you have any talent. you can’t even come up with decent insults

>>16507877
>pozzed reddit midbrains
ah, you’re one of _those_ people...

>>16508030
Kek you're such a faggot
Why do you even come to 4chan?

>>16508061
>>16508056
>>16508071

LOL. Analyzing my 4chan posts that I expend less than 5 seconds of thought on for signs of my character and writing talent because you're so butthurt and so resentful of being put in your place that you spend minutes going over my posts looking for a crumb of justification. Well - suit yourselves. If that's what you need to do to not start crying because I rightly called you a midbrain, then do what you have to do. Just fuck off to Reddit while you're at it. Thanks!

>>16508042
Fuck you're right.
>>16508060
I'm from the midwest, maybe I have different perspectives to offer.

>>16508082
I don't know what you mean, why the hostility?

>>16507610
>>have to pretend to like garbage writing from others while actual good writing gets no acknowledgement (one girl submitted a story about how she got wet while watching her boyfriend get beaten up by a drunk which earned her a 60 second ovation, even though she could barely string together a grammatically correct sentence)
if monkeys could speak english

>>16507610
>have to "sandwich" criticism between praise
this stuff makes ppl worse, a workshop that makes you more sensitive and trains you not to have taste. ridiculous. the west is in a cultural tailspin. i doubt china does this shit.

>>16507679
Post your story

>>16508110
Yeah, in China your family is just held at gunpoint until you write something that fits the taste of the party

>>16508110
>>16508110
You're also never taught how to critique, too. It can be actively detrimental to listen to your peers in this environment, also because the quantity of your critiques are tied to your grade. Workshops are good, just find one outside of the University environment.

>>16508139
Whatever it takes. The manufacture of genius isnt cheap, but necessary.

>>16508110
>>16508139
China can be a bit of a meme. I remember reading about how they banned time travel stories, but not because of any political reasons. The censors were just annoyed with how popular the genre was and wanted something new.

>>16508088
Dude just go and write. Why are you wasting time shit posting?

>>16508158
>but not because of any political reasons. The censors were just annoyed with how popular the genre was and wanted something new.

based communists.

>>16508158
>being so tired of Isekai/time travel shit that you just outright ban the genre so you don't have to read them anymore
Genuinely based. I hope they ban Xianxia next

>>16507679
>"Why you using fancy words? You think you're better than everyone else?"
Christ, that's the cornerstone of anti-intellectualusm. I didn't know it was that bad. I took one creativity business course at a top 20 business school there was a lot of
>I'm creative and full of ideas!
>Can't name a single one
Glad I switched to stem

>>16507610
none of these sound bad except the green hair. imagine thinking grammar matters when editors exist

>>16507610
>a white woman with green hair
If you decided to stay after seeing this, you played yourself dawg.

>>16508088
lol you're not even a convincing 4chan troll, you don't stand a chance as a writer or at anything else

>>16508110
>>>16507610 (OP)
>have to "sandwich" criticism between praise
>this stuff makes ppl worse
this is teaching the reviewer how to deal with people effectively, it's not about teaching the writer
the prof knows that the peer criticism will be mostly pointless, that's why she's using it as a teaching moment for something else as well

>>16508293
Having a good grasp of grammar is the bare minimum requirement of being a writer. Making a mistake every now and then is fine, but not knowing the rules at all is just going to lead to embarrassment down the road

>>16508158
based censors

>>16508293
>imagine thinking grammar matters when editors exist

>>16508355
If you're op, you don't know how to use em dash >>16508088 but also you sound like an insufferable faggot so hiding the thread

>>16508158
lmao. That's unironically hilarious

>>16508139
I'm laughing so hard at that

>>16508370
I'm not OP, but he's definitely at least right about grammar. People can rightfully call you a hack if you can't string together a grammatically correct sentence on your own. An editor is mostly there to clean up the story structure, not hold your hand as they point out obvious comma splices on every page. If a manuscript on my desk had multiple obvious errors on every page, I'd more than likely just toss it out. My faith in your writing ability is already tarnished

>>16507610
God do I hate this anti-adverb bullshit trend... Yes, sure, an excessive amount of them will make a mediocre text worse, but a good writer will know how to make a healthy use of them. Complete prohibition of it is utterly ridiculous.

>>16507610
>>retard professor (a white woman with green hair)
God I just want to murder any woman between the ages of their upper 20s and early 40s these days.

>>16508259
Please don't make me consider STEM I really want to get into literature and the humanities but I'm all too aware of the stigma against those fields.

>>16507843
Adverblets BTFO

What is it about literature and writing that attracts so many narcissists, pseudo-intellectuals and those that suffer from Dunning-Kruger in this day and age?
Is it because they are too incompetent in everything that they do that they and therefor they reduced to having to become writers to boost their egos?

>>16511232
Filtered

I'm not doing so well in mine. It's valuable feedback. I don't give the reader enough info to go on, and I think I need to make them read stronger on the surface level. Don't attempt depth for now, keep it simple

>>16508088
give us your writing

>>16511291
they probably thinks that literature is "simple", and think they are really creative

>>16511441

shutup guy lol

>>16507610
Was there any writing you liked except your own?

ALso you don't have to post a full story, a 200 word excerpt will help everyone get an idea

Op’s hilarious. He’s fooled you all and you keep taking the bait.

>>16511553
Also details on the drunk story cause wtf

>>16507679
based

>>16507610
>using adverbs... promotes "bad writing"
Adverbs exist for a reason.

>>16507610
>adverbs bad
where did this shit come from? use adverbs when required, but don't autistically try to avoid them when their use would be natural. simple as

>>16507610
>grammar and sentence construction optional, "telling a good story" is the primary focus

Why do you take offence to this, you have a free pass to green text

>>16511223
I’m in the same boat, anon. I’m pretty sure I’ll regret it but I want to anyway

>>16507610
>few of the other students have read anything besides harry potter yet consider themselves writers
This is honestly the crux of it. Young writers today are divorced from their own literary tradition. Other than a few weirdos, they do not read Shakespeare, Milton, Chaucer. There is nothing foundational to their understanding of what it means to write other than a frivolous desire to have their "work" adapted for a Netflix program.

>>16508158
Nah censorship there is just arbitrary, depends on connections and no one cares if something unpopular does shit.
Works have been banned for having an anti-hero MC like RI, for having too much sex, for encouraging superstition in a horror novel, for plagiarism despite being the work that was plagiarized etc.
All of which can be published again if they retool the entire novel and add "scientific" explanations for the horror and so on.
Timetravel isn't much of an issue unless they're glorifying the "wrong" dynasties.

>>16511291
It's probably just more obvious. In your daily life you have a lot more opportunities to obfuscate things you want to hide. Dumb opinions and ideas can be charismatically stated or just not spoken. You really can hide now much of a mouth breathing windowlicker you are by just keeping your head down, or at least knowing when to. There's really no such thing with writing. What's being examined is purely your writing, which reveals (conjecture) a big part of the mind which created it. There's really nowhere for slackers and shitbags to hide when it comes to writing -- it's either good writing or it isn't in the eyes of the reader. I like to think that the proportion of retards in literature is roughly just a proportionate slice of the general population, it's just that it's sometimes easier to hide in other media.

>>16507917
I majored in English and Ancient History at an Ivy and now guess where I am? Doing banking. I hate my life. Fuck.

>>16507610
>one girl submitted a story about how she got wet while watching her boyfriend get beaten up by a drunk
based femanon

>>16511916
lol that's because you went to an IVY.

>>16507610
He unironically needs other people to tell him how to write.

>>16507762
Even if OP is lying, I've seen the same in writing workshops. They write them to be edgy and to be able to deflect criticism by saying it's raw and any mistakes are intentional.
I took an intermediate writing workshop course that was much better, but the introductory one was full of:
>melodramatic coming out story
>edgy story with abrupt character death
>edgy story about drug abuse written by student who clearly has no experience with drugs and did no research
>purple prose poem about how technology is evil
>poem about toxic relationship
>poem about fucking guys in Europe
>smug students that think they are the best writers in the class but become defensive and almost start crying during the first piece of criticism of their piece
The professor didn't play along with that and focused on structure and flow, so his critiques were helpful but the peer critiques were useless. On one of my stories another student said that I was pretentious for using the word rhododendron because it was long and she didn't know what it meant.

I'm in one too, and a little conflicted. I've read 7 peer works so far. One of them was really well written, one was not far behind, but the rest were terrible. I am looking forward to what improvements the good writers will suggest, but dreading what the others will say, as you have to incorporate feedback into your final drafts for the grade

>>16507610
>(one girl submitted a story about how she got wet while watching her boyfriend get beaten up by a drunk which earned her a 60 second ovation, even though she could barely string together a grammatically correct sentence)
based and avant garde

>think this will be a fun thread about writing workshop woes
>nope, just a bunch of people bitching at the OP for being a big fish in a small pond
look guys, you don't exactly have to be a genius to be top of your class in a writer's workshop. Most people take these things just to boost their GPA. Don't you sympathize with him a little?

>>16507610
Bros, I took a creative writing class and I got publicly assblasted by the professor in front of all my classmates when it came to reviewing what I wrote. I mean, she was so offended, so angry, she spent about 5-10 mins doing it. I couldn't tell you exactly how much time because I was frozen as fuck.

Ending up plagiarizing the rest of the assignments so I didn't have to deal with her shit.

>>16512101
Oh, and I was fine after it. The most offending part to me was some fucking asshole comparing my work to Game of Thrones. I had not watched GoT yet and it just sucks being accused of being influenced by some shit you didn't even look at :(

>>16512101
>>16512106
Holy fuck I read the first few paragraphs again and I am CRINGING.

>>16512133
Post them

>>16512101
Look at the bright side: if art is about eliciting emotions, you definitely succeeded.

>>16512030
I guess workshops have the same problem as foreign language classes: you shouldn't be primarily learning from people who also suck at the skill.

I went to a workshop led by a national award winning author. About twenty writers, most middle age. We submitted novel outlines to the author ahead of time. There was a short lecture, review and critique of the outlines (anonymized), q&a and discussion. No one had a clue. The outlines were childish, obviously bad on many levels. Everything was so basic that it wasn't worth my time to attend, other than to see what other people are doing and how bad it is.

>>16512133
you can't say this and not post them you fucking nigger

>>16507943
You either realize your mistake or you'll be a brainlet forever. You also won't get anywhere near a literature-related job.

>>16507610
>>retard professor (a white woman with green hair) has forbidden us from using adverbs because it promotes "bad writing"

I write and edit publications for a large government department. The head of our department (a woman) dislikes the use of gerunds ('ing words) to the point where for a while I was coerced into getting rid of most of them in our news stories, statements, press releases, social media posts, and so on. This is all well and good, except that gerunds exists for a reason, and there are certain circumstances where they're necessarily to indicate ongoing actions. Fortunately, things have gotten less stringent as most of us have been working from home since March and things are just more fast and loose now.

>>16507897
Looking at your grammar here I don't think you are the 'genius' writer you make yourself out to be

>>16512357
Was it one of those workshops that the Save the Cat author does?

>>16512133
Please post. i need something to read while i drink my coffee

>>16512101
>>16512133
Anon, come on now. Post it.

>>16507610
>woman instructor
Big yikes

>>16507610
>>no adverbs
Very well

>>16507876
It certainly can be, but if you put an honest effort in, those who do the same will recognize it, and from there you can build a community for yourself.

>>16507877
>I'm attending college to LEARN,
Why then not study STEM?

OP here, I'm really sorry guys. I fucked up. I didn't take my meds this morning and as a result I spiraled out into my usual delusions of grandeur. I regained lucidity just as I was gently shoveling shit into my wetly glistening mouth. The shit was smellily and offensively penetrating my disgustedly flared nostrils, but I couldn't stop. I lost myself giddily in the shit.

Once again, I'm deeply sorry for all the mean-spirited things that I said. I didn't mean them. I guess I just feel insecure about my future and my writing ability, and I lashed out at people who were just trying to help. Even the workshop professor is trying her best, in her own way. I'll do some soul-searching and try to find what it is I'm trying to get out of writing. Thanks guys.

It's different now but when I was in high-school in France kids were parceled into STEM, Econ-Sociology, and Lit streams, with the classes referred to as "S", "ES" and "L" respectively. These choices would determine the bulk of your classes and final exams.

The planned outcome was for each student to pick the stream that corresponded to their interests and abilities. What ended up happening was that the cream of the student crop congregated to S with a select few in ES, with the worst students going to L on average. As far as I can tell, this was a common pattern nationwide.

The average S student ended up having a better grasp of the French language and Humanities than the average or even the majority of Ls.

I think there's a similar force at work here. Anything non-STEM becomes glutted with terrible students who drive out the good ones. The inevitable result is citation farms/conferences and academic posts that serve mostly to train the next generation of academics in their discipline.

>>16514740
Also, forgot to mention that OP sounds like a real asshole and his problems probably don't stem from the structure of the class first and foremost

>>16512097
>Don't you sympathize with him a little?
no
i don't doubt that most of the other work in the class sucks, and that the peer reviews are mostly worthless.
but he also thinks he's above listening to the professor (guess what dummy, you're going to be allowed to use adverbs at some point) and i guarantee he's not half as good as he thinks he is. which he knows too because he won't post any of his work. whiny know-it-alls who just want everyone to trust that they're a genius aren't sympathetic characters.

>>16514611
lol

>>16514740
This was my experience too. The truth is typically you can get away with faking it in liberal arts classes in a way you just can't in STEM. In my experience liberal arts classes are 90% people who are either too lazy or too stupid do do anything else and 10% people who actually try. In that latter 10% you'll often find some really brilliant people, but unsurprisingly those people are often getting degrees in STEM fields too. I do find the brilliant liberal arts people more engaging and interesting than brilliant STEM people, but the average is generally higher in STEM fields.

>>16514611
kek

>>16507610
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH THE ESJAYWUBBLEYOUS AHHHHH

dude just grow up

>>16507794
This.
It's the same for everything,really.Figure out what the top tiers are and consume it non-stop.
Once you unconsciously absorb the patterns of the top tiers you'll start doing what they do without realizing.
People that read garbage often write garbage too,and it's for the samer eason.

>>16514885
>he's not half as good as he thinks he is. which he knows too because he won't post any of his work.
I can't say how good the OP's work is, and neither can you. But not posting work on the internet isn't suspicious. He's merely protecting his first north american serial rights. If you post your shit on /lit/ no publisher will touch it because you've published it online.

>>16515618
yea ok OP

>>16511223
>>16508259
Go History major or other tangentially english-y major with less """"free spirits'''''''. In history specifically (what I am in) you can use whatever fucking long word you want and even craft interesting narritives as long as you can also write in more achademic speak too.

>>16507920
That's not how it works. Agents either represent you or they don't. At best you got a pat on the head and a "well, email me once you've written that book."

>>16508293
While editors will certainly tear whatever writing you give them a new one, if you're trying to get published in literary journals, your own poor editing will absolutely impede your success.

>>16512146
>>16512885
>>16513772
>>16513867
>>16512198
Hey guys, I will post it tomorrow. Probably will make a new thread for it. If this one is still up, I ping you with some (You)s.

>>16509649
The OP, inasmuch as any of his story is believable, likely misinterpreted his teacher's caution as a moratorium. The problem is that most students, even earnest writers with some talent or skill, are going to overuse pointless adverbs such as "really" or "very" instead of interesting and useful ones.

>>16514740
Shitty students exist throughout the academy. The only possible difference is that the filtering classes happen at different stages. For STEM kids, they seem to happen somewhere during undergraduate education. For English, they don't seem to happen until graduate school (though, I suppose the grad application process is a filter as well).

>>16514740
>>16515293
Why is it all the people I know with STEM degrees can't write in full sentences then?

>>16507679
I bet her story was good. The premise has balls. You should learn from that and grow some. Looking down on others will always make you a bitch, no matter how talented you are (if even).

>>16516974
Because they're Chinese

>>16507877
Studying writing is a joke. Who's gonna care what you have to write about if all you know is writing itself? Guess you'll be one of those authors who only writes about the struggling writers.

>>16507610
>one girl submitted a story about how she got wet while watching her boyfriend get beaten up by a drunk which earned her a 60 second ovation, even though she could barely string together a grammatically correct sentence

sounds interesting i thought you were going to use this as an example of the “good writing” lol

>>16517045
Fair. But none of the white ones can either.

>>16516781
OP of the story here. Spent an hour formatting everything to HTML and adding a nice image + css theme to my story. Looking forward to posting it tomorrow :)

>>16517048
All students should have instruction in rhetorical and content knowledge. Only one should leave a student shortchanged, even if usually students do just fine as shitty writers. Hell, plenty of PhD students and holders write complete garbage. That said, getting an English degree, where much of your content knowledge will be critical theory, is likely a severe impediment when you're stacked against people in the job market with far more marketable (and likely relevant) content knowledge, since whatever rhetorical knowledge you hold over other candidates either isn't recognized or valued.

>>16517075
it's tomorrow man

>>16507924

Ok Reddit midbrain, because you begged I'll let you have a taste of my story from the workshop.

"I was drunkenly walking out of the bar with a manly swagger. Even when I've had a few too many I'm always competently holding my shit together. So this guy starts aggressively talking shit to me. His girlfriend is standing next to him egging him on bitchily. She's a cum slut like most of them, and he's stupidly picking a fight to impress her. Bad move bozo. I ninja kick him to the face impressively. Then a shot to the groin, painfully. "Bitch," I say to him disdainfully. "Other bitch," I say to her manfuly. And then out of nowhere it suddenly happens. At first I wrongfully think she frighteningly pissed herself. But then I realize... she came. The slut came. For me. Sluttily."

>>16518280
holy shit. It's beautiful

>>16518280
The new Hemingway.

>>16507679
Hey, that's still better than having your own parents tell you to stop using ten dollar words.

>>16518328
>use the word "allegory"
>dad says angrily "Anon can't you just talking fucking normally?"

>>16507679
>and sounded like I thought I was better than everyone else
I wish I just took this attitude from the get-go, because I was. Instead, I played the very modest, helpful guy who would hear out everyone's retardation and just point them in the right direction as politely as possible.
But most of the group weren't smart enough to infer that the reason I was getting the top grades was because I already knew far more than them about the subject and in general on day one, and was being polite - instead they just assigned it to some supernatural ability to study the same entry level textbooks they flicked through once and treated me like an encyclopedia.
I wish I had just been the elitist cunt who kept to himself, people are fucking draining.

>>16517025
>Looking down on others will always make you a bitch, no matter how talented you are (if even).

>>16517025
>NOOOOOOOO YOU CANT LOOK DOWN ON OTHERS AND THINK YOUR BETTER THAN THEM TTTHATS HECKIN IMMORAL YYYOUUUUUUU BITCHERINOOOOOO

>>16517025
I'll be praying for you and your family to die.

I have a friend who went to one of those types of courses all the way back in middle-school. We were both into fantasy shit back then and would write stories for each other, but the further his studies in that course went the less he actually produced. During high school he only wrote some fan-fics and after graduation he just got a boring job and never wrote anything again.
Do not let someone "teach" you how to write. Just write.

>>16518379
People don't like people that look down on them. You need to be talented enough to take the hit if you want to disdain them openly.
Resentment is useless, confidence is not. Are you resenting them for infringing on your time and resources (since you 'have' to talk to them)?

>>16507610
>one girl submitted a story about how she got wet while watching her boyfriend get beaten up by a drunk which earned her a 60 second ovation, even though she could barely string together a grammatically correct sentence
Sounds based
Imagine signing yourself up for a creative writing class without any research whatsoever

>>16518412
>People don't like people that look down on them.
Capitulating to the whims of others is the opposite of based. I don't care what people like and will look down on who ever I please.

>>16507679
This post is hilarious, get help

>>16517025
Not him, but you are missing the point. College (and society generally) has chastised intellectualism to the point where regard for standards of technique is considered pretentious.
His story probably wasn't good, but the fact that a group of students can contribute criticism on that basis, seemingly without any intervention by the professor (at their behest even, if OP is truthful), is what leads to the indignation. OP is exercising technique in his field of study, demonstrating his understanding of the principles and is not rewarded any differently than someone who has no regard for them and sounds to be barely literate.
This is where the indignation forms, not because they're better, but because they're better and get nothing out of it. If OP was praised for his story and got top grades, and everyone was willing to learn those rules of grammar etc, then OP would probably feel good and want to help these people. But instead he ends up despising people that don't recognize or value hard work.

>>16507679
This is where OP shows his hand and reveals his thread is grounded on bait, calling it now.

>>16518443

> Best case scenario: OC terrible shit
> Business as Usual Tier: Dragonsex erotica jpg
> Worst Case Scenario: we have to read a sincere attempt at 21st century literature

>>16518500
>Dragonsex erotica
That was a great thread.

>>16507838
So a book about sailors?

>>16518434
>despising people that don't recognize or value hard work.
Similar to people who work hard in gym for small gains and the only people who recognize it are others who know the dedication it takes

>>16507838
Characters cursing a lot comes off as very juvenile though

>>16518559
I agree with this post. You need to be clever about it to make it work.

>>16507986
This borders on copypasta stuff, please OP keep going.

>>16518570
Yeah. Even in dramatic or dark works, swearing should be used very sparingly. I use it around the climax mainly by to show how the events are affecting the characters—as amaturish as that sounds it really does change the atmosphere when a character tells some to "shut up for one fucking second" when there hasn't been a single no no word up to that point.

>>16518511
Dragons will do anything for money, including crimes.
>>16507679
Well he was right since you do think your story was the best and they suck.

>>16518625
Exactly. Curse words' power lies in the taboo surrounding them. Their value stems from artificial scarcity, that is to say that the less use they see the more shocking it becomes.
Think of diamonds, or gold. A poor or middle class man offers his wife a golden ring, and she may wear it proudly and with class. But when you see some of those people who like to cover their fingers in rings, or have lots of golden chains around their neck, they look tacky as hell rather than impressive. It's seen as distasteful.
The same principle applies to curse words; in a certain way, we could say that they need to be used as jewelry.

>>16507877
you sound extremely pretentious and this thread says a lot more about your failings as a person than the shittiness of CW programs. This is impressive because CW are largely shit and you are still eclipsing that with your arrogance.
>>16507866
This, if he decided to just take it as a creative exercise rather than a personal insult to him he could've learned something and then moved on, forgot about the bad experience and vented to a friend instead of venting onto this bad thread, I know this from experience.

>>16518781
>This is impressive because CW are largely shit and you are still eclipsing that with your arrogance
kek

>>16507610
>she got wet while watching her boyfriend get beaten up by a drunk

I see nothing wrong with this

>>16512101
>>16512106
>>16512133
>>16512146
>>16512885
>>16513772
>>16513867
>>16512198
>>16517922
>>16517075
Hey guys, I posted the story at >>16518975

>>16518991
https://saudade.glitch.me
^ If you don't want to go to the new thread.

>>16518625
>as amaturish as that sounds it really does change the atmosphere when a character tells some to "shut up for one fucking second" when there hasn't been a single no no word up to that point.

I just finished reading A Confederacy of Dunces and was surprised when all of a sudden 300+ pages into the novel someone busted out the f-bomb, which then only occurred once again before the book finished. People may swear all the time in real life (depending on the context and person of course), but when it's excessive in a story it seems tacky.

>>16518280
kek

>>16507610
What kind of retard actually takes a /lit/ major, did you not notice how retarded your english teachers in HS were?

>>16507610
>>16507866
This. Yes, OP, your professor is probably a terrible writer, and your fellow students are probably a bit fucky in the head with all their wizard-loving, post-modernist, Hairy Porter degeneracy, but you need to just do the work to the very best of your ability. When you ace the class, you can throw out all the garbage they taught you, and keep what you taught yourself. Also, don't really be condescending to your classmates, you're probably more like them than you want to admit, and they're probably more like you than they want to admit.

I was like you once (only, I was doing a fine art degree, similar problems, though), don't do what I did. I just ignored what everyone said, worked on my own thing and got bad grades. It wasn't a complete waste, but if I could do it again, I'd do it differently.

>>16507610
>>16507627
>few of the other students have read anything besides harry potter yet consider themselves writers
This is the only bad one

>retard professor (a white woman with green hair) has forbidden us from using adverbs because it promotes "bad writing"
It's exercise. She isn't saying your magnum opus can't have adverbs. She's saying you can't use them here. Some exercises use some muscles, some use others. Some muscles require more work, some less. Don't interpret any individual one as some cumulative philosophical ultimatum. Sometimes even forcing yourself to use grug speak is good practice.

>>16507679
I know this is bait because in actual workshops everyone uses overuses semicolons.

>>16507610
there is a saying in my country that you are either self-taught or uneducated. did any of the great writters attended any of that type of thing? no. Just like any of the great scientis haven't had a tutor. these type of institution make money on desperate people.its like pua for incels but worse. you can't be taught how to be creative, because if it was possible then the being creative could follow a scheme you could taught yourself to follow ,in fact being creative is about thinking outside the box and cannot be taught , what they are teaching there is anything about creativity. they will probably teach you how to stand in a shadow of a great writer instead of casting your own shadow. what makes a writter great is that they are all unique and cannot be achieved in such a class. stop paying these people money , all you need is a will power to read all the classics in your home and that will power , just like creativity can't be bought.

>>16518434
>Not him, but you are missing the point. College (and society generally) has chastised intellectualism to the point where regard for standards of technique is considered pretentious.

Nah, we shame obnoxious charlatans and pseudo intellectuals with fragile egos because most people don't go to college for the sake of "higher learning" nor to become an "intellectual" they apply so they can get a better job opportunities. I bet you that most of the students in Anon's class are only there for the credits.

>OP is exercising technique in his field of study, demonstrating his understanding of the principles and is not rewarded any differently than someone who has no regard for them and sounds to be barely literate.

Oh boo fucking hoo poor baby Anon is upset because he's not getting the praise he deserves lol. No one gives a fuck about how much you know about a thing, we only care if you can apply that thing effectively and practically. Anon should get the fuck over himself.

>>16520258
I question that. More intelligible creative writing exercises would be: write in a form for foreign to you, if you prefer 1st person, write in 3rd person.

Give me descriptive passages describing your room, a dream, or your favorite place.

Give me a short biography of a person, fictional or real.

Write these certain amount of words consisting of just dialogue.

Etc.

>>16520433
>great scientis haven't had a tutor
Actually lots of great scientists had tutors, often also great scientists themselves.
>institution make money on desperate people
True
>you can't be taught how to be creative
Sort of true, but irrelevant, OP is not learning how to be creative, OP is learning how to write.
>they will probably teach you how to stand in a shadow of a great writer instead of casting your own shadow.
Most/all good artists copy other artists especially to learn. If you look at early work/sketchbook work etc, you see this. Writers learn from reading and understanding other writers - as you suggested.
>all you need is a will power
Actually, the genuinely successful writers and artists we know today, were genuinely successful because they were part of a community of very hard working writers/artists. So, to really make it, you need self-determination, community, and talent.

Most people that don't have the community don't get discovered, or simply fatigue and never make anything. The community helps motivate and keep you on the straight and narrow. Determination is obvious, nobody makes anything worthwhile without working on their skills. Talent, is least important, and can often be compensated by work. Most important is the number of hours put in. The more hours (hours actually working, not daydreaming), the better you get.

>>16515618
t. never been published

>>16518426
*whomever

>>16507679
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

I took a creative writing course and it was completely worthless. The only thing you learn to write about is poetry. As someone who wants to world-build and to write novels I got nothing out of it. Also one time the Professor had a feminist writer call in and spent the entire lecture giving us political feminist bullshit. I recorded the whole thing because I knew people wouldn’t believe me.

>>16507610
>one girl submitted a story about how she got wet while watching her boyfriend get beaten up by a drunk
Post that story OP.

>>16520969
>I recorded the whole thing because I knew people wouldn’t believe me.
Well? I don't believe you

>>16520969
>>16521808
This. Post it. No one cares enough to dox you, we just wanna hear it

>>16518280
Kek. Ngl though, that is one too many adverbs.

>>16507610
Unironically the best "creative writing" course I've ever taken was a sedimentary geology class. Probably because the professor was a bit of a weirdo but I filled up my lab and field reports with so much wild speculation and bullshit I actually began to enjoy writing.

>>16520969
Post it fggt

>>16520969
>I recorded the whole thing because I knew people wouldn’t believe me.

Why wouldn't anyone believe you? Everyone knows we're inundated with this shit now.

At my Master's degree graduation last year, one of the student speakers was a little Latina goblina who spoke out against white supremacy and then quoted a Harry Potter book in front of hundreds of people. The boat is sinker faster than sane people can bail the water out.