/lit/ - Literature

nigga? I think it's u who's confused nigga.

the Confucian take on identity and relationships is one i very much ascribe to

>>16505813
how so

It is said that Confucius went to see Lao Tzu. Lao Tzu was an old man, Confucius was younger. Lao Tzu was almost unknown, Confucius was almost universally known. Kings and emperors used to call him to their courts; wise men used to come for his advice. He was the wisest man in China in those days. But by and by he must have felt that his wisdom might be of use to others, but he was not blissful, he had not attained to anything. He had become an expert, maybe helpful to others, but not helpful to himself.

So he started a secret search to find someone who could help him. Ordinary wise men wouldn't do, because they used to come to him for his advice. Great scholars wouldn't do; they used to come to ask him about their problems. But there must be someone somewhere - life is vast. He tried a secret search.

He sent his disciples to find someone who could be of help to him, and they came with the information that there lived a man - nobody knew his name - he was known as The Old Guy. Lao Tzu means "the old guy." The word is not his name, nobody knows his name. He was such an unknown man that nobody knows when he was born, nobody knows to whom; who his father was or who his mother was. Because nobody knew_ He had lived for ninety years but only very rare human beings had come across him, very rare, who had different eyes and perspectives with which to understand him. He was only for the rarest. So ordinary a man, but only for the rarest of human minds.

Hearing the news that there exists a man known as The Old Guy, Confucius went to see him. When he met Lao Tzu he could feel that here was a man of great understanding, great intellectual integrity, great logical acumen, a genius. He could feel that there was something there, but he couldn't catch hold of it. Vaguely, mysteriously, there was something; this man was no ordinary man although he looked absolutely ordinary. Something was hidden; he was carrying a treasure.

Confucius asked, "What do you say about morality? What do you say about how to cultivate good character?" - because he was a moralist and he thought that if you cultivate a good character that is the highest attainment.

Lao Tzu laughed loudly, and said, "If you are immoral, only then does the question of morality arise. And if you don't have any character, only then do you think about character. A man of character is absolutely oblivious of the fact that anything like character exists. A man of morality does not know what the word moral means. So don't be foolish! And don't try to cultivate. Just be natural."

>>16506367
The man had such tremendous energy that Confucius started to tremble. He couldn't stand him. He escaped. He became afraid - as one becomes afraid near an abyss. When he came back to his disciples who were waiting outside under a tree, they could not believe it. This man had been going to emperors, the greatest emperors, and they had never seen any nervousness in him. He was trembling, and cold perspiration was coming, pouring out from all over his body. They couldn't believe it; what had happened? What had this man Lao Tzu done to their teacher? They asked him and he said, "Wait a little. Let me collect myself. This man is dangerous."

Isn't it very basic stuff though? Like do unto others etc. etc.

>>16506374
>>16506367
source

>>16506367
>>16506374
I love stories like these

OP BTFO

>>16506367
>>16506374
Damn.

>>16506367
>>16506374
Source of the text?

>>16506367
>"If you are immoral, only then does the question of morality arise. And if you don't have any character, only then do you think about character. A man of character is absolutely oblivious of the fact that anything like character exists. A man of morality does not know what the word moral means. So don't be foolish! And don't try to cultivate. Just be natural."
this is bullshit
a man can only become good once he knows he is evil.

>>16508584
That's what the text is saying, correct

>>16508645
no it is not
>don't try to cultivate. Just be natural
this is the opposite of what I said. stop trying to sound smart

>>16505813
He was bullied to death by Chuang-Tzu. Pic semi-related

>>16507183
You should definitely read Zhuang Zhou. Theres so much of this.
>>16506396
Read it. The analects aren't long at all and you can get pdfs easy as.
>>16506447
As I said, I'm pretty sure theres stories like this in Zhuang Zhi/ Chaung Tzu.
>>16508584
I agree. Daoism should come after confucinaism. Disciplship then mastery. In order for law to become nature, nature must be brought under the order of the law. Its true that laws are made to be broken- this how the dialectic progresses-, but without knowing the laws they cannot be broken.
>>16505813
Does conservatism even need to be intellectually coherent? I feel like the problem is that the western academic conception of 'divine right' has been distorted to resemble less the 'mandate of heaven' because of the modern self destructive "west-is-worst" narrative. I guess what I mean is: is there really so much difference between confucinaism and traditional western vehicles of conservatism like the church? (Acknowledging all the problems like the schisms and the modern breakdown into degeneracy and what not.) I feel like any framework which address the human need to develop/for contentment is capable of manifesting conservatism coherently.

>>16508987
Inner out outer chapters of Zhuangzhi? I have the Watson translation.

>>16509207
? Read it all. I just read the penguin. Just go with what you've got. If you have suspicions about the translation just compare it with other pdfs

>>16506367
>>16506374
based