/lit/ - Literature

>>16497108
Are demons spiritual beings?

>>16497108
It tells them that their god is a subaltern fraud and the world is evil

>this world is evil because I'm an incel
>it's all the demiurge's fault we're all stuck in this flesh prison
grow up

>>16497153
>this world is good because today's pay day

>>16497153
>this world is evil because I'm an incel
no, it's because it's far removed from god. not evil in any faggy moral sense.
>it's all the demiurge's fault we're all stuck in this flesh prison
material prison overall, not just bodily.

>>16497108
its literally always been a rump mystic cult that the other religions barely give the time of day.

>>16497162
My Gnostic comment got removed from some Catholic priest's YT video.

>>16497162
why would you expect that they would? they're gnon-compliant slaves

>>16497171
damn. sorry for your loss bro.
>>16497186
i never said they would, im just saying its hard to seeth at something that’s practically a non entity in your sight.

>>16497201
>damn. sorry for your loss bro.
kek it was a very good comment! it was a long nice rant where I threw some hard punches at Catholicism.

>>16497186
>gnon-compliant

i refuse to believe you made that up on the spot

>>16497201
>i never said they would, im just saying its hard to seeth at something that’s practically a non entity in your sight.

i routinely see videos on gnosticism. it isn't a non entity at all

>>16497207
i would like to see it. im not opposed to gnosticism. I just like to call bull sfatements when i see it.

>>16497219
i think I read it somewhere

>>16497222
>routinely see videos on gnosticism. it isn't a non entity at all
yah, and if i routinely start watching wheel of fortune videos on yt, suspiciously ill be seeing more of them two. thats called the youtube algorithm. i literally only get recommended gnostic stuff if im watching an occult video or something.

>>16497108
Because its a low iq religiom for idiotą that blame God for their problems. Christ said that you need to hate the world not God

>>16497309
>the Demiurge is God
kek pleb detected

>>16497309
>repeats gnostic ideas to refute gnosticism

every time.

>>16497153
If you're not a shut-in and you don't believe the world is evil, you're simply preoccupying yourself with things that hide you from the truth

>>16497316
platonic numbnuts. gnostics arent the first.

>>16497326
platonists weren't either

>>16497322
this. only sociopaths and children believe the world is hunky dory

>>16497353
>>16497322
eh, saying the world is complete evil is also a midwit teenage grungemode thing to say too. by the very fact that we are not in constant excruciating pain proves that it is not entirely evil either.

>>16497386
>lemme generalize my condition to everyone else

a reality is only as good as the worst thing that can happen to its inhabitants. and a lotta of bad shit happens down here. send a hallmark card with your little ditty to someone with chronic pain or cluster headaches, see how they respond.

>>16497412
>reality is only as good as the worst thing that can happen to its inhabitants.
prove it.

>>16497353
>>16497412
Only immature retards who still believe in Santa Claus think that the world is supposed to be "hunky dory". The world is as it is. It is not evil, it is not good. It is what you make of it and men of greatness are able to create beauty and beauty is the highest form of man. True beauty is art and art is transcendental, it is the connection of man to God. Art is what separates man from beast, it is the rope that man tightwalks. To create art from life is to imitate God.

>>16497421
doesn't matter how high your perch is, if gravity exists, gravity is still king.

>>16497433
>the world just is maaan
>the just b urself :^) of theodicies
>beauty and art teleologically justify death and suffering

so caustically cringe. yeah go outside and "just be" until you die of thirst like the monadic artist-god you are lmao

Gnosticism is the state religion of our tranny homosexual totalitarian future.

>>16497462
No.

>>16497463
Yes.

>>16497462
sounds sort of Gnostic

Gnosticism is just repackaged Zoroastrian Manichaeism and Platonic metaphysics repackaged with Christian imagery.

>>16497353
guess I'm a sociopath then

>>16497108
I am catholic and I could not care less about whatever "gnostics" do nor do I even think about you and I guess most people neither. But whatever floats your boat dude.

>>16497108
What are the arguments for the demiurge existing besides "I dont like world" ?

Mostly because gnosticism is just secular hangups dressed in spiritual clothing for people who realize those secular hangups are cringe and care that they are.
Note how the only time you ever see gnostics pop up is when they're shilling some leftist political viewpoint or lifestylist veganism.

>>16497732
Based

>>16497322
>If you're not a shut-in and you don't believe the world is evil, you're simply preoccupying yourself with things that hide you from the truth
>>16497353
>this. only sociopaths and children believe the world is hunky dory

this kind of rancid inverted moralism is how Jeffrey Epstein types justify raping kids. its also how historical gnostics justified their well-attested degeneracy and immorality

>>16497412
>. send a hallmark card with your little ditty to someone with chronic pain or cluster headaches,
literally me, i've been unemployed and out of school for 4 years because of chronic headaches

>>16497108
your begging the question gaytard

The G should be pronounced.

>>16497861
Gno.

It's literal death worship.

>>16497881
That’s Christianity for you.

>hate their bodies
>think their gender was an imposition by a higher power that trapped them into a fake gender instead of their "true" one
>tries to free themselves of this trap via what is essentially an irrationalistic epiphany
>end up commiting suicide

Reminder that trannies are the ultimate modern expression of gnosticism.

>>16497886
>religion which bans suicide and self-harm
>religion that actually promises immortality and resurrection
>religion that sees death as the consequence of evil
>death-worshipping

>>16497108
Because Christianity decided to make up the idea of eternal hell(which is a falsity).
You see, you can't really say that God creates billions of people in the full knowledge that a vast majority of them will be condemned to eternal torment for finite sins, while also saying that somehow God is still good.
Reading the original greek texts in their totality, there is simply no justification for the idea of an eternal hell, yet all the churches made it dogma or doctrine, probably so that they can force people into behaving a certain way.
Gnosticism is merely a reaction to this false and contradictory image of God painted by most christians. Now of course, gnosticism is clearly false, but if eternal hell actually existed (it does not), they would be right.
Read pic related for clarification. Its short.

Why does responsibility and obstacles of self-improvement make [a]Gnostics seethe?

>>16497936
>if eternal hell actually existed (it does not), they would be right.
So the catholic and all the Orthodox churches are wrong? Most prots even believe in eternal hell more than they do with their retarded election systems.

>>16497889
You just described anyone who believes in spirit

>>16497896
Yes. You just described a death cult. There’s life after death for them. The Catholics had to adjust their stance on martyrdom to keep people from committing suicide, but suicidal christians can still serve as war fodder for the king.

>>16497878
It's a Greek word and Greeks pronounced every letter in a word.

>>16497948
>You just described anyone who believes in spirit

>IT'S DA DEMEEYOORGEE

>>16497948
>You just described anyone who believes in spirit

So gnostics truly are trannies, I see.

>>16497944
>So the catholic and all the Orthodox churches are wrong?
On the doctrine of hell being eternal, yes they are wrong. They pretty much get everything else right but they need eternal hell as a carrot and a stick tactic.

>>16497968
If you're a Christian, fuck you.
If you're not a Christian, Based. I agree.

>>16497976
I'm a christian, and you will never fuck me.

>>16497720
Bump

>>16497981
Since you're a Christian, who ordained your arrogant self to be so lofty in your interpretations that goes against 2000 years of holy inspired tradition? Why has the spirit guided you but refused to guide the church Christ claimed the gates of hell would never vanquish and would be given the Holy Spirit, the Helper, to guide it forever? A guidance expressed in council of passed down authority from the unbroken laying of hands begun by the prophets? Why has God preserved this false institution but not the one which heralded the whole truth that you now hold?
Prots are the epitome of haughty arrogance, you are not Christian. Nor am I.

>>16497719
ok pedo

gnosticism is heresy

/lit/s threads on gnosticism has finally convinced me that gnosticism is the truth, it's the best model of explanation for all the retarded shitposting hylics that show up every time we have a thread. I don't even blame them, they couldn't possibly do anything else but seethe because they literally have no soul, they are just flesh husks serving their corporeal instincts

also they tend to latch onto one or another faith-based religion with a "God" which they per definition see as outside of themselves (having no soul), that god being of course, the demiurge, they need a source of power outside of themselves having no inner sparl, or connection to the true source, they latch onto institutions, churches, priests, dogmas, religions etc. And lash out violently at any notion of the true source of life being directly attainable, and the notion that this world is degenerated, this world being the only world they are able to comprehend and considering that their fate upon death is to be destroyed together with the material world (ashes to ashes, dust to dust) it all makes sense, thanks /lit/

>>16497732
Some gnostics co-opted the Plotinian simplified answer for "evil" in that any step removed from the Good is less good and therefore technically evil, thus for there to be otherness and real distinction, which Platonism holds—there has to necessarily be evil, this world is then merely the farthest possible otherness in spiritual distance from the Good. Similar to the divided line for knowledge except in this case for beauty and good.
The difference between Platonism and gnosticism is the view of what evil itself is, for us platonists all evil, no matter how horrible, that even that, is culminating into a beauty and good greater than it would have been it it hadn't happened. So for us all evil is "necessary evil".
It's also related to how if true freedom is good, then in true freedom there has to exist infinite potential, aka omni-potencia, and within infinite possibility there is the choice for the worst choice. The mystery of choice can't be explained since then it wouldn't be free, you yourself initially entered this domain.
Sorry have to cut answer short, gtg.

>>16498012
>tradition is somehow more reliable than God's goodness
>logically disproving eternal hell as a possibility under the condition that God is good is arrogance
I smell phariseism. God is better then you think. Read the book posted above or stfu pleb.

How do Gnostics explain John 18:20-21?

>20 Jesus answered him, “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing. 21 Why do you ask Me? Ask those who have heard Me what I said to them. Indeed they know what I said.”

>>16498059
I'm talking about the councils, the councils are next to nothing after scripture, the church fathers as a whole (no individual above any other) are next to the councils.
The point of tradition is that no man is 100% correct, and even if they are or you are, you should doubt your own fallen intellect and submit to the many contesting viewS of those much wiser than you and I and out of them find the common thread of shared truth. The church only dogmatize what's mostly unanimous not what Augustine and three others alone said.
Still, I chose to do this with the far older tradition (Egypt-platonism). Than to cherry pick out of Christianity what sounds nice to my opinion, there's no middle ground, Orthodoxy/Catholicism or rejection of the Bible which they put together. I chose the latter. I'm agnostic about christ, he is or isn't Dionysus/Osiris/Horus/Adonis/Liber/Odin/Sabazios/Nous/Eros/Sophia/Beauty, he could be but I neither affirm or deny that. To actively affirm him abd the Bible leads undeniably to one of the Orthodox churches, the Bible refutes protestantism.

>>16497108
please, OP, please kill yourself. you are just parasite.

Why are you so butthurt about being a failure irl that you make up a fantasy world for "enlightened individuals" like yourself

If the Demiurge is evil, or at least, not the true God, and the Demiurge has its origins in the emanations of the Monad, why is the Monad worth worshiping any more than the Demiurge? The product of its emanations is flawed, but how can that be, if the Monad is supposedly perfect?

>>16498201
>implying that any council condemned universal salvation
Let me guess, you also think Constantine made christianity the state religion of Rome? People should study history more. All churches accept hopeful universalism, it's not considered a heresy.

>>16497966
>Other religions don’t believe in the spirit
I see.

>>16498944
Universal salvation and eternal hell aren't mutually exclusive.
Since there are hints that Gehenna and God's deifying grace are one and the same fire/light. It's you that makes the experience of God's love into hell for yourself or paradise for you. That it's literally projection. But that damnation is eternal is doctrine, I think a type of universal salvation was condemned in the Seventh or Sixth council. Then again it hasn't been in the Oriental church tradition, which is an option.

>>16499550
The Logic behind this criticism, that at first seems silly, is that our souls are 'gooder' than the demiurge's good. And if the Gnostic Monad is also the Good, then Power should be measured according to goodness. How can a less good being (the demiurge) subdue more good beings (our souls). This is as you see a greater error than what it at first seemed. Where has a lesser entity gotten superior power? Thus for the evil entrapment theology to be correct you must accept Principle Dualism, aka Zoroastrianism/Manichaeism. But thus contradicts the 'evil as sequential privation' doctrine.

>>16497761
>Jeffrey Epstein used gnostic morality to justify raping kids bro

lol why do I come to this shit board. you get headaches because you're brain damaged

>>16498675
That's why Mani and Marcion were superior to the crypto-christians like Valentinus.

>>16499584
To elaborate. The more virtuous an individual is the more powerful this individual is (as an individual), the same with a group. Of course the delusion of today brought about short-sighted perspectives is that evil gets you prosperity. But in the grand scheme this is false. The most prosperous nations are those with highest Trust inbetween all its citizens and has respect from other nations, powerful armies arise from duty bound and loyal soldiers, from courage and wisdom. The true competition of history is won by the most virtuous (wisdom is a virtue) group and individual, being an individual without a group is not fully virtuous, it's a dictum in Platonist that one with friends and ease of friendship is a quick measure of virtue and wisdom.
Thus Good = Power, and we return to the conundrum of how a being further from the Good has more Power than the Myriad Souls it captures. Ergo. Death should liberate us, and we are also the true captors of ourselves, we are the true cause of our being chained in the cave. And this is the heart of the Narcissus myth. Don't be so enamored with your image reflected in the waters of the indefinite that you fall in entirely. Lost in what only could be.

>>16499662
And to reiterate. Suicide in Platonism as a means to liberation is the last thing you can do to liberate yourself (as in: you kill yourself because you think THIS act will liberate you, not that causing your own death is itself inherently something that will entrap your farther down). Like dying saving someone is technically a form of suicide, but it isn't morally, likewise Socrates didn't suicide.
BUT according to the above problem, from the two posts above, suicide in Gnosticism should open the gates of liberation because the bodiless soul should be more powerful than the Demiurge because she's supposedly more pure and good and beautiful than him.

Also please Gnostics please keep making more of these Has Nothing To Do With Gnosticism Icons like pic related, in your ignorance. Always nice with more re-imaginings of the epic Phanes/Serapis/Atum/Mehen Theogony. Apollo makes beauty works through your stupidity.

>>16499777
>>16497108
The sky’s doorway has been opened, the Cool Waters’ door has been
pulled open, for Teti himself at daybreak, that he might emerge into
the Marsh of Reeds and become clean in the Marsh of Reeds.
So, Teti will become clean, receive his metal bones, and extend to
himself his imperishable limbs that are in the belly of his mother Nut.
Sun, give your arms to Teti.
Shu shall take him to be a companion of Shu, for Teti has been suckled
with the milk of the two black cows who are the nurses of the
bas of Heliopolis.
Hepatj, the sky’s belly has swollen with the force of the god’s seed
that is in it. Behold Teti: Teti is the god’s seed that is in it.
Hepatj, Heneni, Zemnenu, Teti has become clean and received his
god’s-cloak, and Teti will establish himself through it like them as a god.
Hepatj, Heneni, Zemnenu, take Teti, settle him as one of you.

RECITATION. You canal-swimmer of Horus with black front, who is on
the Sun’s neck: you are for the sky and Teti is for the sky.

RECITATION. Horus’s fetcher desires Teti because he has gotten his eye.
Seth’s fetcher desires Teti because he has gotten his testicles.
Thoth’s fetcher desires Teti.
The two Enneads have shaken (with fear) for them, for they are the
very fetchers who desire Teti, the fetchers to peace, and they shall
fetch Teti to peace.

RECITATION. Teti is (a snake) with sweeping visage and continually lifted
front, a star to whom the gods bow and the two Enneads shake.
Teti’s hand is what will elevate him.

RECITATION.Teti is (a snake) with sweeping visage and continually lifted
front, a star to whom the gods bow and the two Enneads shake.
The face of Teti is a face that sees his elevation; Teti is a breathing nose.

RECITATION. Teti will go forth to the sky on the cushion in the prow
(of the standard): its sandal has been grasped by the elevated hand.

RECITATION.Teti will go forth to the sky on the cushion that is in the
prow: its sandal has been grasped.
Teti is a breathing nose; the face of Teti is a face that sees his elevation.

RECITATION.Teti is that one who emerged from the Coiled One:
Teti has emerged from his fiery blast, while he is turned away.
The two skies have gone to Teti, the two lands have come to Teti.
Teti has stepped on the green vine under Geb’s feet, and he will trample
Nut’s paths.

RECITATION. Teti has become clean on the hill of land on which the
Sun has become clean.
He shall set the stepladder and erect the ladder, while those of the
west are grasping his arm.

RECITATION. Greetings, Sun, who travels the sky and crosses Nut. You
have traveled the Winding Canal and Teti has grasped your tail, for
Teti is a god, a god’s son.
Teti is the blossom that emerged as ka, the gilded blossom that emerged
in Iseum.

>>16499550
hahaha gnostics BTFO

Judaism and its derivatives are for the ignorant masses
Neoplatonism is for the patricians

>>16497448
>beauty and art teleologically justify death and suffering
Yes.

>>16500211
>this epic poem makes up for child murder

lol.

>>16500211
Based.
Who the fuck would find meaning in a challengeless and effortless existence.
Paradise is Hell.

its great that we will collectively spend all this time arguing about metaphysical systems, without a single one of us becoming "enlightened"

>>16500258
watch me
double trips in this thread
someone's watching

>>16500219
No, the epic poem JUSTIFIES child murder.

>>16500211
Based dubs

>>16500258
Oh yeah? Well, when God was passing out insight, you thought he said that when God was passing out holy prophets you thought he said oily faucets! Because your soul has diarrhea... of the mouth... faucet.

>>16500211

>>16501190
How could he be suffering if there's a knife in his brain stem?

>>16501190
holy shit that image. Destroyed.

>>16497108
worldly religions are nested in a powermatrix. And gnosticism to subverts it.

Although some religions are more tolerant of mysticism, it has nothing to do with tolerance. But with the function of its power.

>>16497154
that hit hard man

>>16499544
Yes they are mutually exclusive. To say otherwise is to say that God's love in uneffective.
Also The Bible uses several words to describe this place where damnation supposedly takes place. Gehenna, Tartaros, Hades, etc. ALL of these simply get translated as hell even though they mean very different things. Eternal damnation is a western fabrication. God will not damn you, you damn yourself and God will save you from your sins.

>>16501871
>that God's love in uneffective.
>what is free will
The eschaton is an event with an end, once we're deified and made immortal our essence will partake in the divine energies inherently—forever. Whether you see this as bad in your hatred will determine if it is a punishment for you or a reward. God can't force you to love him.

>>16497108
Because it is tiring trying to have reasonable discussion with schizos

>>16501871
Also I'm the one who said Gehenna; Hades isn't hell, it is the same as Sheol, everyone dead who isn't a Saint is currently in Hades. We have no idea what Tartarus is in Christianity.
Gehenna is hell, as in the lake of fire, as in God's entering into creation, as in the light of tabor, as in purifying light, as in the sea where God will destroy and cast all our sins (Micah 7).
But your disposition is yours, where you choose to turn your will determines whether you are in heaven or hell.
Gehenna is God entering into creation as a whole and destroying reality except all now ressurected humans who are carried by the angels up to somwhere else.