/lit/ - Literature

>tfw want to grind out the short stories for practice
>tfw never really read short stories
Who should I go read, anons?

>>16494176
H. G. Wells or Kafka are pretty great, I dunno what your style is like though.

>>16494137
I'm attempting to write a short horror story but I'm too tired to continue for today, however I'd like to hear some critique on what I've got thus far, thank you

https://pastebin.com/JcVDqM8v

pic semi related

>>16494176
Hemingway for the concise writing, Dubliners for the absolute master. Contemporary stuff to see how the above evolved in the intervening years.

>>16494176
Sherwood Anderson's Winesburg, Ohio

>>16494176
Joyce, Chekhov, Turgenev, Maupassant, Hemingway, O'Connor

>>16494166
If the smile is important and your protagonist's thing you should describe it as such. Not just a smirk, but his specific smile that tucks at the corner of his mouth.
Does it do it unconsciously, showing vulnerability? Or deliberately, because he' imitating his favourite anime character in an attempt to come off as a cocky asshole?
And once you've established it's his thing you won't have to resort to vague definitions that leave your reader floundering. It's his smile. It tugs at the corner of his lip. It makes him feel in control.
Don't waste the opportunity to characterize your characters by just going with a smirk.

What is everyone working on today? You better be getting at least some writing done, even if it's only a paragraph or two

>>16494176
Borges 100%.

>>16494419
Dealing with the sequels of an intense scene. Wondering if it's too early to cripple the protagonist in a typically self-inserty genre. I think I can use it to take the story somewhere unusual, though.

>>16494176
Jorge Luís Borges. But also depends on what you are trying to write.

>>16494176
Salinger

Everything I write just ends up being distasteful mimicry of the great author I am currently reading

>>16494419
I'm not ready to make the jump to novels/longer form stuff yet, but I don't have any ideas that are small enough. What do?

>>16494482
who cares? practice makes perfect

is there already a book about the earth not rotating anymore so one side is permanently daytime and one side is permanently night time

>>16494648
The bible. Joshua 10:13.

>>16494489
You could always break a longer story up into related short stories

>>16494703
Not the ideas I have. They're too dependent on being part of a larger narrative. They're mostly planned out, but I'm just scared of writing novels because every time I try i get 2,000 words in and lose faith and stop writing for a few months.

>write 1,400 words
>realize it's actually a movie scene not a short story
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>16494745
>Written and directed by Robert D. Weide

>>16494745
What’s wrong with a movie scene?

>>16494969
Nothing. It's just it feels like I wasted the day. I'm not out to write movies(yet) so the lack of a short story worth something makes me feel like I accomplished nothing.

>>16494993
As long as you got something done and were productive, you didn't waste your day, anon. Just try again tomorrow and use what you've learned to do better

>>16494821
> A. Wyatt Mann

>>16494419
I'll try and write my 500 word daily today, just for you anon.

do you guys have creative constructive criticism of each others writings here?
what do you think of a not well spoken person trying to write? I maybe read 3 books outside of what was required in school

Showing my writing process for a short story here:
https://youtu.be/zWcb2gi0GgU

>>16495446
>what do you think of a not well spoken person trying to write? I maybe read 3 books outside of what was required in school
Why are you writing then? Do you just view writing as an alternative to making an anime or manga, since you don't have the abilities or resources for the latter?

>>16495711
Just want to make some something. Just something to do my friend, an out source you know

>>16495446
We sometimes share critique for eachother, rather it be tough love or otherwise.

>what do you think of a not well-spoken person trying to write? I maybe read 3 books outside of what was required in school
Just be yourself. Last real book I read was like 6 years ago and that was a Roger Crowley book on Venice and I never even got to finish the damn thing since it was returned without my knowledge. All my other "reading" is drawn from manga and anime.

>>16495916
>All my other "reading" is drawn from manga and anime.
Then why don't you just go and make an anime if you hate novels?

You chose writing because all you need is a keyboard, but you're really just as unskilled in it as anything else. You don't actually like writing. It's your only option. Show some respect for the medium you're participating in and stop.

>>16495991
I think you're putting words in my mouth friend. I like writing, and I never said anything about hating novels. There was just no opportunity for me to get a library membership in the past, plus I take months at a time to actually finish stuff.

It actually slipped my mind but I've also spent the last year and early this year reading Saga of Tanya the Evil light novel on my kindle. Though I liked to read it when I went out and dined, and since coof stopped that I haven't been in the mood to ever read on it—not to mention I already caught up to the latest translated volume anyway. I have another novel sitting around as a pdf but I don't know if I'll ever get around to it. One day I want to read Romance of the Three Kingdoms too.

>>16496029
Sure thing. Now go post your isekai on Retard Road.

>>16495916
>last real book I read was like 6 years ago
Why are you making writing your hobby when you don't seem to like literature very much? I can't think of a single author who didn't spend a significant portion of their day reading, because that's intrinsically tied to the craft. Watching anime and reading manga isn't a very good way to learn story structure, because they either break the mold fairly often or involve slice-of-life elements that are not, in a traditional sense, a story

>>16496082
>Why are you making writing your hobby when you don't seem to like literature very much?
It's because he doesn't have any talents, and he views writing as something anyone can do.

>>16495504
best of luck to you, anon. nice facecam.

>>16494648
Just google tidally locked planets. Some sci fi may use the phenomenon.

>>16496082
>Why are you making writing your hobby when you don't seem to like literature very much?
You're still putting words in my mouth because I never stated any of the sorts.

>>16496209
You don't read literature. That doesn't mean you hate it, but you definitely don't like it. If you liked it, you'd read it.

>>16495379
Good job. You can do it! I'm working on getting 1k done myself tonight

>>16496227
I'll read stuff if it piques my interest, and I have been following a whole bunch of other web novels as of late. There's one I spent like a solid week binge reading and it was a roller coaster of a ride, but since I've since caught up on that and others I have to fall back to my other hobbies in the meantime while eagerly waiting for updates on everything. I can only do so much in a given day while still being committed to serial writing.

This is what you get when you accept "people" who post on Retard Road, writers who don't read. Don't say I never warned you.

There's a short sentence from an article that I really wanna steal for my book
Will I get in trouble?

>>16494648
There's a lot of interesting exoplanet research about tidally-locked planets. The differential heating causes a scorching dayside, cold nightside, and intense winds from dayside to nightside.

t. planetary scientist

I just want to write edgy weeb stories at a literary level

>>16496507
mind if I use this post to influence my writing? This is fascinating, the winds could be a great element

Also, could I get away with having it not be 100 percent scientifically accurate? I'd like the day side to be hot but still livable, and the night side to be agonizingly cold but still theoretically livable

>>16496529
Yeah of course, it's not my research anyway I'm just aware of it.

And there's still a lot unknown, plus of course it's fiction, so I don't think you need to worry about 100% accuracy. Most tidally locked planets are pretty close to their star but you could just have it be a weak star, or have the planet be further away. And having a hazy/dust atmosphere would mitigate both the dayside heat (by blocking the star) and the nightside cold (by greenhouse warming). But again, it's fiction so I wouldn't worry too much about it, I'm just spitballing. Exoplanet research is very much a nascent field

Memes and hate aside,

How do I write a good videogame story?

>>16496637
That likely entirely depends on what kind of videogame you're wanting to make. I can't really answer the question without knowing more info

>>16496637
It depends on what the gameplay is generally. Otherwise you have a story, which can be anything, and then you formulate the gameplay, but the way you phrased the question posits that you don’t have a story you want to tell. So the question then becomes what is your skill at developing games? Renpy? Or maybe fully immersive unreal engine third person narrative driven bullshit? I don’t know your skills.

Do you want a linear plot or do you want the PC to feel some sense of choice? There are so many questions to your question.

>>16496637
Do games with good story exist

>>16496637
What is a "video game story"?

>>16494137
Any playwrights here?

>>16496672
>>16496723
Picture a jrpg-like fictional world but with zelda-like gameplay replacing the more typical rpg elements, however it retains the idea of a having a playable party of multiple characters. Playable characters are actual individuals, not blank slate avatars for the player.
All the possibility of "choices" are limited purely to minor gameplay mechanics without any major story altering impact.

>>16496750
You will never make this

>>16496750
>All the possibility of "choices" are limited purely to minor gameplay mechanics without any major story altering impact.
Players will hate this. The player choices need to matter.

>>16496763
Im already on it though.
Btw, when I meant zelda-like I was refering to the classic top-down mode not too different from link to the past or the pokemon games, none of the highly complex modern 3d fuckery.

>>16496775
Not really, I like games with linear set stories, they exist and many people enjoy them.

How can I create a main character that's biologically unique(the only one of a kind specimen of its "race") without making it some sort of central demigod superhero chosen-one with a special destiny?

>>16496724
Dark Souls has a good story, but you have to put in a lot of effort to figure it out

Have you ever tried to experience nostalgia for the place you’re currently in but in the future? Like, the what if?

>>16496951
Yes but it's hard to do (obviously). Look up Hauntology if you're interested in nostalgia about alternate pasts/futures

>>16494176
Honestly you should look into Fitzgerald and the way he could pivot from literary (Babylon, Revisited, The Rich Boy), humor (The Pat Hobby Stories), a sort of lighthearted fantasy (Benjamin Button, O Russet Witch) and his commercial, slice-of-life stuff (Bernice Bobs Her Hair). He really writes with charm.

For literary stuff, I think Richard Yates’ short story collections are under appreciated and like >>16494452 said, I think Nine Stories is Salinger’s best book.

>>16496969
I read ghosts of my life. It had a great thesis. I’m just drunk at an apartment I know I’ll give up soon and trying to imagine what it’s specific sense of nostalgia will be. A breezy fall day? The warm glow of a portable heater? The smell of 100 year old wood? I don’t know. And what’s worse is if I write from what I know and if characters then go in the future, what will they feel?

>>16496920
That seems to be the only way you can do it though, it's largely visual told or implied through disconnected bits of lore. Not written as a narrative

>>16496637
>How do I write a good videogame story?
Learn how to write first.

>>16497010
there's no real way of knowing I guess. (I'm also drunk in an apartment)

maybe if you can (not easy rn) go for a trip elsewhere and try to see what comes to mind when you think of your current place? what songs were you listening to when you lived there? what did you eat? what books did you read? who came over? what was your overall mood? what goals did you have? who did you have a crush on? what tribulations did you go through? I think those alll convey a sense of place.

>>16497043
>sense of place
Ha. That was the name of my art show. I guess I should be better at this. When I’m done with the bar exam I think I’ll leave to get some distance and ponder some of those questions. Thanks anon.

>5 1/2 hours later finally reach 500 words daily
We're (probably) all going to make it bros.

>>16497266
Tell me your typing speed and an articulated list of what that 5.5 hours consisted of.

>>16497277
Around 76rpm, apparently. I spent half of it racking my brain on how I wanted to start this chapter—I kept trying to plan it out while at work today, but now that I got the chance to sit down and write it was harder to put thoughts into digital paper.

Then I decided to distract myself with some background noise by semi-watching a 2-hour video on what inspired TTGL. Wasn't until the last hour time frame that I managed to get a jumpstart on it and reach my desired wordcount.

>>16497315
What inspired ttgl?
Otherwise You need to just write. Like I get inspiration but like, really? You know the lecture I could type out.

All my novel ideas are "upmarket" ie they aren't aiming for a genre. That's common on this board, so the following may be as well; since I'm not writing for genre I know that my prose, storytelling and characterization needs to be strong, but any attempt to do so just comes across as an amateur poorly imitating his betters. I clearly do not have a voice of my own as it shifts dramatically based on whatever book I read last. I am strongly invested in the stories I want to tell as they are personal to me without being shameless allegory or self insert, so the concept of just shitting out the first draft is hard to commit to.

I would be more comfortable writing genre but there's nothing there that interests me, Fantasy and Mystery have been beaten to death, and the only Sci Fi I'm into is space operas.

It's painful, but I've committed to finishing a novel by year's end.

>>16497581
Well, it's October now, so you best get on with it

>>16496082
>>16496111
>reeing this hard because the dude doesn't read
Nobody fucking read you little autists. Sure, I read whatever BAP adjacent mediocre meme shit you faggots recc, it sure as hell doesn't make me any better of a writer. The required lit he read in school makes him more well read than 90% of prospective writers.

Now, if he tries directly porting over shit like dialogue or characterization from anime he's retarded, but he doesn't seem retarded to me.

>>16497614
Reading doesn't necessarily make a writer better, true, but not reading makes him certainly worse.

>>16497593
God only knows how I've let so much time slip away without having done anything else.

Last Nanowrimo I took another step as a writer when I discovered that I keep inserting anime tier melodramatic phraseology and scenes into my stories. I've worked on reducing the edgyness without completely abandoning more somber themes.

But this book opens with a suicide attempt and now I'm unsure about this. It seems very heavy handed given the primary theme of the novel but I have no idea how to transition into the supernatural bargain without having a near death experience. I'm always checking my stories for edginess at this point.

>>16497709
Is there a question somewhere in there, or are you just blogging?

>>16497709
Hey weeb, how's this for a suicide?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HigfTslY3L4

>>16497718
I want to know if I should keep this opening. I loved it 2 months ago but it's starting to stink.

I know this doesn't count as writing, but AI dungeon gave me such beautiful text I have to share it with you guys.

> You ask the demon why you're going to hell.
The demon laughs.

> You say "Come on, is it a secret? Why am I going to hell?"
The demon stops laughing and begins to get angrier.
"FUCK YOU, FAGGOT!" he shouts, as he pushes you down the mountain.

>>16497614
>Nobody fucking read you little autists. Sure, I read whatever BAP adjacent mediocre meme shit you faggots recc, it sure as hell doesn't make me any better of a writer. The required lit he read in school makes him more well read than 90% of prospective writers.
Oh god. First we meme that no one on /lit/ read, now there are fags running around being proud of the fact unironically, and defend a "writer" who doesn't read literature. That shit about ironically acting like retards would only lead to retards invade the place for real is true.

>>16497735

>>16497735
AI dungeon is the opposite of art. You should feel ashamed. Even isekai and litrpg fags are better than you as an artist

>>16497766
Fuck you, faggot

>>16497770
See? You have been trained by a soulless being. You're now speaking like an artificial human

>>16497709
Truthfully, I don't think opening with a suicide attempt makes for a very compelling story. At the beginning of the novel the reader doesn't particularly care about your character; and they don't have any stake in the story yet. That's usually why that kind of thing happens around the 3rd part of the novel, where the reader feels empathy with your character. Hard to give any specific advice without knowing anything about your story in particular, though

>>16497779
A suicide attempt played for laughs sounds like something I would enjoy reading, but most people probably don't find the idea of a suicidal person being subjected to slapstick as funny as I do.

>>16497735
AI's aptness at portraying demons should be a concern for everyone

>>16497779
Yeah that's perfectly fair. Although I'm not expecting anything from the audience other than
>This is an emotionally distraught character
and
>This setting has supernatural beings but maybe not
The scene shouldn't linger like opening battle scenes or other scenes where something significant happens to a character that we have no attachment to. I'm mostly afraid that it'll be offputting, which you seem to suggest.

In my head, since I've written this multiple times, the scene flows from a very standard end of day at a dead end job, to the commute home on the metro, the the unannounced emotional spiral that typically proceeds a "sudden" suicide attempt. The amount of introspection/internal observations are kept to a minimum in the first two parts to reflect the "going through the motions" nature of that sort of life. Also because the emotional weight of the scene should lie in the "humor" of the situation. I don't know who to read to help me with this other than Kafka and maybe Camus?

>>16497806
It really depends on the execution. It's off-putting if you portray it as off-putting, whether intentionally or not. Nothing wrong with the idea itself. It could make for a very engaging intro if played right.

Hey writefags. I come before you today to beg you to come up with 200 words words, at least, for my project. Think of it as a warm-up-exercise or just to flex a new poem about elves in the new nano/lit/ thread over here. I’m begging you. Even 100 words, just something. An e e cummings level poem. I literally don’t care what you do just that you do it. Do it because I give you something to laugh at.

>>16497560

Don’t have any ideas? That’s okay. I have a couple you can use for free. Take more than one. There’s a lot more where this came from.

ELVES
>a kind of robot, drone, or other mechanized autonomous tiny hunter-killer
>a genetically modified human,
>a malevolent and alien vampire with really long ears,
>an Extra Long Face [E.L.F.],
>our ancestral progenitors and overlords who once dwelt on Antarctica before their war with the Smiling Ones,
>trans-dimensional tricksters and shapeshifters,
>the new ethnic group that arrived from SOMEWHERE and now runs all the liquor stores in the ghetto,
>great magicians who taught mankind to use magik but have mysteriously disappeared
>the extinct creators of fabulous ruins,
>a new synthetic cybernetic organism,
>a new class of artificial intelligence rated above human,
>furious vegan activists,
>a genetic disorder that comes along with telepathy and torment by other children,
>a vicious racial slur used against white people,
>a kind of gayboy

If you are worried about someone being mean, that doesn’t usually happen. This project is more of a snapshot in time of anon, than an attempt at seriously good bar-raising literature for the ages. Don’t worry about creating a masterpiece. This is not a serious project trying to raise the bar on anything. It's only another one of our poorly drawn memes, except in written form.

>>16497914
I don't mind writing something but I don't get what you're doing. This is a fantasy anthology?

>>16497921
>This is a fantasy anthology?

No, it is an anthology of super short writings of anon based on archetypes that appear in fantasy, but not limited to that. Sometimes an anon shows up and does a pseudo-philosophical rumination or series of aphorisms on the subject. I love that shit. What I really would like to see is adaptations of genreshit into your highfalutin literary fictions that don't seem trite or contrived. Yeah. I dare you literaryfags to figure out how to do this. Like, make the Elves a gang in inner city Tokyo, where you set your masterpiece composed of a critical set of masterfully interwoven themes: it is a story of an African immigrant who dares to live in Japan illegally and finds love with a Japanese girl, but the racism in Japan is so great that they decide to kill your family to send a message, warning you that if you don't leave japan they will torture you to death. This violence was implemented by the Elves, a violent right-wing nationalist gang of thugs and criminals who are praised by the Japanese for such behaviors. You got 'love', 'death', 'good' vx 'evil'.

TL:DR Just be creative, integrating the subject of a nano/lit/ thread into realistic fiction isn't hard at all

>>16497962
I like genre fiction though.

Is it considered fan fiction if you make comic books about a superhero who is also a real person? Like Super Trump or Super Obama?

>>16497995
Yes

>>16497995
It is considered "shit"

>>16498008
I think we should make up a new term for irl fanboyfic. I could never even conceive of a form of faggotry on that order before. The thought of Obama as a superhero fills me with such rage and hate as no other art ever has or can, I think. Such blatent propaganda should have a really special name, I think I got it. Shill Fiction. Only a fucking shill or even worse, a marketer would ever even think of something that gay.

>>16498030

>>16498033
Holy shit, did you make that? If so, the drawing and dialog are well crafted, but I have to admit I don't understand what's going on with the flounder. Or the 'pirate thing'. Seems like some kind of inside joke, or maybe it's just trying to be surreal, which if the case is pretty cool and totally rad to include Obama into, or maybe its all about showcasing the meme, thanks obama. Overall good work

>>16498052
No that's from Superior Foes of Spider-Man

>>16496323
Keep them out and we'll only have readers who don't write. The future belongs to the RR chapter writers

>>16498070
>RR chapter writers

I can't help but think that RR is some kind of scam. I mean, I'm nano-anon so I even encourage others to post their work here on 4chan, and there is probably, ultimately, very little difference. But what is it that the writers get out of posting their content on RR? Critique? Much of my creativity comes from my paranoia, and I can't help but suspect RR as some kind of a trick or trap by some kike [note: I use the work 'kike' to indicate any avaricious, devious, tribal, stingy, person, not just Jews]. Like I can just see some group of screenplay writers who completely fail at coming up with new ideas so they set up something like RR to generate new ideas which they then steal and hide inside their productions. That would be pretty funny premise of a short story actually

>>16498086
>what is it that the writers get out of posting their content on RR

Readers

>>16498095
Does it ever lead to publication, or is it intended as an alternate venue to the cabal of accepted publishers? Does one ever get published through RR?

>>16498070
> classic literature writers who published serially in newspapers good
> modern writers who publish serially on RR bad

>>16498109
Royal Road is non-exclusive. Once you've finished your book on RR, you can simultaneously publish it on Amazon, B&N and Google Books. The latter 3 don't have the serial format (yet)

>>16498117
Can you make money through RR? Like donations and such? Sorry I'm too lazy to check out the site and I'm really busy atm

>>16498121
I've only signed up for the website a week ago, but I don't think you can make money. Not directly, anyway. It allows you to link to your PayPal and Patreon though

I know that Wattpad has a paid section

Here's a question about some posts I saw in /wg/. Is it true that the 'accepted' or 'real' publishers won't touch you if they find out you previously released your novel in whole or part elsewhere on the internet? If so, how would they possibly find out? Search engines? Also if so, why are we not burning down their headquarters and brick and mortar distribution hubs or facilities. In minecraft, of course.

Note: all extremepost by this IP are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.Only a fool would take anything posted by this IP as fact or anything more than the deranged ramblings of a madman

>>16498137
That was probably true in the past. I've heard of cases in recent years where publishers will take on a book that is trending well on the self-published lists

>>16498135
It would make sense for someone to create a platform that at least allows the possibility of getting paid. Even tho I hate paypig paywalls and such I still would be stoked to make money from my writing before my novel is finished and it would motivate the fuck out of me, even if it was only like $10 a week. I can imagine a mode similar to pandora where one pays a small montly fee of $5 and then have access to all the content, ad-free. I would make it myself if I could code. Or even just have it donations only, with perks for donating like getting ebook versions of new content emailed to you or live chat sessions with your favorite writers.

>>16498137
Metro 2033 had all chapters except the last one released for free online and it sure got picked up by a publisher

>>16498137
The real question is, why would you ever post something online that you're about to offer to a publisher? They typically want exclusive rights to your text and don't want to see random copies floating around. From their perspective, the online views are all lost sales.

You post your book online when you've failed to find a publisher, or believe the chances of getting traditionally published are next to none, but still want someone, anyone, to read it.

>>16498156
There are sites like webnovel.com, or creativenovels, with in-built systems where you only get a set number of early chapters free and have to pay to read the rest. People on RR do shit like post advance chapters on Patreon, which are only later opened to public.

But fuck it, it's a hobby site, for writers who want to write and have people read what they write. If you want money, get a real job.

>>16498172
>why would you ever post something online that you're about to offer to a publisher?

Because you want someone to critique it? Because you want someone to read our work? I'm the guy that constantly goes on about how the only reason anyone should write or do art is because they enjoy it, but that does not mean that I want all my work to sit on a hard drive somewhere. What if I get assassinated by the cabal for mocking them in my writing? Then no one would ever read my dark yet funny jokes which mock this ridiculous clown-world that I spent like 9000 seconds working on in abiword. Maybe we like the idea of collaboration and hope to find collaborators via posting our in-process work in hopes that someone will like it enough to join your new universe, either directly in a single work or in separate Expanded Universe style fiction. I refuse to call the EU fanfic. Maybe you just want one person to tell you, this is really good and inspiring writing. It's so new and fresh. I wish I could write like that at your age, etc.

What makes publishers so special anyway? What exactly do they do? No one buys meatspace books anymore. Let's say they do buy paper books. How many will a publisher sell in a best case scenario? Like that one faggot that writes like a book a week, what's his name. James Patterson. His work is trash but how many copies does he sell?

>>16498238
You're also allowed to actually read my post and try to think about what the words mean before replying, Mr Methhead

>>16498238
If you don't like the system then don't take part. But don't play dumb and act like you don't understand. Why would they want to try and sell something that you've already given away for free? You can get feedback without putting all your work online. And as for "wanting someone to read it" that's why you're sending it to publishers, just be patient.

>>16498263
Using that logic, why buy any books at all, since the vast majority are either available in traditional libraries, Project Gutenberg-type websites, libgen, traditional pirating, shady Russian pdf collection websites, etc.

>>16498280
Maybe because the majority of people don't use any of those.

>>16498260
>Mr Methhead

topkek. It's Mr. Nan0 to you, sir. I read your post again, about lost sales and failure to get published in context to posting excerpts of your novel online. The only thing I seem to have missed was another question to put on the pile here

>>16498238

My question is, why isn't the promotion of your novel through posting excepts online encouraged? It could easily lead to more sales for the publisher when the book is released, if done correctly. If the excerpts link to the name of the novel or some other identifier, and people like your work, maybe they will go buy the book upon release. Makes sense to me. You know what also makes sense? Setting up a book review group of some kind in order to shill for good new writers that were not accepted by the publisher syndicate for being too edgy. I fucking love edgy shit.

>>16498291
Yeah, and the vast majority aren't going to read their books on RR or medium or Wattpad or any of their other clones

>>16498310
I don't get what you're trying to argue. Your book is in a library? Your book is on some torrent site? In all these cases, the book already went through the traditional publishing route first and has made most of its lifetime sales.

But you put your book online, where a simple google search will find it—that's all on you. If it's not completely illegible, it will have had hundreds, thousands, if not tens of thousands of views on RR and Wattpad. Average published books don't sell that much. A little late to publish it now when it's already been "published". Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?

>>16498371
> Your book is on some torrent site? In all these cases, the book already went through the traditional publishing route first
Unless there's some sort of rule that Pirate Bay only has books that have been traditionally published, that shouldn't be true.

Although, in my experience, online resources like pirating and even Wikipedia don't have rare or old material. There's a lot of information, but it's mostly concentrated on popular media

>>16498371
In any case, there's a reason that people still purchase copies of the Bible or Shakespesre even though it's on the web for free. People like having a nicely formatted ebook on their tablet or a paper copy

>>16498433
Yeah, and you'll be the next fucking apostle or Shakespeare. Jesus christ, dude, why do you SERIOUSLY think people buy those books?

As a personal anecdote, I self-published an ebook series some years back. The digital edition of vol. 1 was available for free, the illustrated print edition was not. The book has the rating average of 4.5 on Amazon. To date, the ebook version has been downloaded roughly 900 times.
Guess how many bought the print book? 0.

>>16498310
But the difference is that it has to have been published and sold in order for it to end up being pirated. Why try and start selling something that is already available for free? Again, don't pretend not to understand. It's a business decision, nothing more. If you don't like it, don't engage in it.

>>16498472
The argument wasn't about physical v digital but whether people pay for the book v pirate the book. You'll note it says "nicely formatted ebook". The people that downloaded your book still paid for it.

95% of the people on this board openly despise genre fiction yet the vast majority of prospective writers seem to be writing genre. Something ain't adding up.

>>16498112
Different times anon. Now, just about everything gets printed. Being published is still a high water mark, but it isn't necessarily seen as a mark of quality. RR has no barriers to entry, no content management etc. Just anyone and everyone posting their poorly edited isekai and fantasy novels.

No hate on RR though, I might throw the fantasy novel I want to write sometime on there.

>>16498263
Nah if you don't like a system you should do everything in your power to change it. There is zero(0) reason not to. However if it's truly beyond your means then stop bitching.

There are certainly enough people mad at brick and mortar publishers to get something done.

Don't listen to those retards. Sure having your work all over the web is not a good thing in the eyes of potential publishers. It hurts your chance a bit sure, but those fucker overestimate the chance a publisher accept a submitted work. They don't read it in full, for there are hundreds of writer bang on their door everyday. Even if your book is good, if the first few pages or your blurb isn't up to their standard, to the trashbin it goes. And if they decide to pity you for some reason and give your book a go, they WON'T do all the marketing, or rather do none at all and expect you to do everything or seeing it fail miserably.

But if your book online is good enough, they will pick it up. There are many such cases. You think the vast majority is going on the web to read? Not the average ones I assure you, and those money grabbing publisher bastard know that. And guess what, by having a popular book online, you are an guaranteed investment, you are worth marketing for, and already you have a following who, if they like your book enough, will buy an official copy.

>>16498537
Isn't the alternative to self publish though? You don't need to tear down the trad publishing in order to succeed, you can just ignore it. Plenty of people benefit from trad publishing and don't want it torn down.

I have an idea for a novel that I'd really like to write. My practice with writing has been rather limited and very occasional; it's been a long time since I last wrote something creative and even then, it was just poorly made creepypastas. Should I just jump in and try writing the novel, hoping that I get better as I go and then come back and edit or just rewrite the first chapters once I'm done, or should I save that idea for later?

>>16498561
Write it now. You'll probably like all of your ideas enough that you won't want to "waste them" on your first novel. Gotta start somewhere.

>>16498561
Do the first, the only way to improve your writing is writing. Your first attempt at a novel will always be the shitty one no exception, even if you have already published a work or two

>>16498554
Trad publishing has the means and structure in place to launch you to much grander heights quicker. They really are fumbling it a bit though. It stems from the fact that a generous 80% of agents/slushpile filterers are college educated white white women from the Northeast in their late 20s to early 30s. This places serious limitations on what is published traditionally.

Is the advice about publishing given in this thread fairly universal, or just valid when talking about the US? I'm from a different country and I'd like to know if the business is run more or less the same regardless of where you are.

>>16498569
That's true; I'm sure that'll just keep on happening unless I start already.
>>16498570
I'll try to do as best as I can, although I'm aware that it will probably be bad.

Thanks for answering; that really is what I needed to hear to get to work already.

Hey folks, I've found these generals to be pretty motivating. Can anyone give me some feedback on the opening to my short story?

>>16498577
Less political correct but expect more pandering to the taste of the mass. Publishing houses in countries with literary tradition are more varied, and some would even venture for works with less appeal but great literary merits. In smaller countries, such publishing houses are reare

>>16498591
First tip, delete this post and find the snipping tool on your computer. Not only did you take a photo of a computer screen, I can't even read this shit my nigga.

>>16498591
Did... did you just take a picture of your monitor then screenshot the picture on your phone?

>>16498596
I feel like America has enough literary tradition to have some publishing houses that aren't desperately searching for the next Hunger Games(or whatever else is the flavor of the month, I graduated high school years ago) or the next immigrant sob story written by a white women. But pop culture seems to dominate many of our high culture institutions

>>16498597
>>16498599
Sorry boys, try this

>>16498591
I really like the concept. It definitely made me want to keep on reading. I found myself getting easily lost in your prose, although I can envision how it would irritate some people.
It does feel a little artificial. I don't know how to really put it into words; like it is trying harder than it needs to to sound grandiose and lyrical. There are some sentences I really liked, for example, the idea of the stars concealing their nature with their light. That sold me on the idea of Helen fearing them.

I'm kind of conflicted here because one part of my mind is telling me that the style is too overbearing, but another one is completely fine with it and really getting into it. I'll say that I've seen this tried and failed a lot harder than here; I'd go so far as to call it a success.

I'm not the most severe critic, to be honest. I'd ride your ass a lot worse if you had done a worse job at it, but I genuinely liked it. I guess that besides the words of praise there's little of value I can offer you.

I'm sorry. Keep at it, though; I am being sincere when I say that I was really getting into it.

>>16498619
Kinda pretentious but not overly so. In the first paragraph I feel the word nostrils heavily contrasts the fair image you're trying to paint. And what is gooseflesh? She skins goose for her beddings? Overall it's kinda nice though

>>16498480
>whether people pay for the book v pirate the book.

Yes. That was what my example was about. The ebook was free, nobody paid anything for it. And they were happy to read it and rated it highly, so long as it was free, but didn't care for an edition of higher quality, because it cost real money. And you can find countless stories like this by even published writers, if you care to look.

>>16498624
>>16498637
Thanks guys, I appreciate that. I was also concerned about the consistency of the tone following the beginning, but I don't want to shit up the thread with more screenshots. "goose flesh" is a common term for goosebumps in my country.

2 of the beta readers I sent it to loved it, 2 thought it sounded too pretentious and hated it. I might just submit it after a few more tweaks and hopefully a middling journal likes it enough. I've only had one short story published previously and that was at the start of the year.

>>16498539
>chances are bad so making them even worse doesn't matter
retard
>There are many such cases.
Name five that aren't 50 shades of gay.

>>16498659
My bad, should have read properly. Still, you don't know that it was the free v paid that made them get the ebook. You don't know that it wouldn't have sold well if you'd made it $1 instead of free.

>>16498660
I don't mind reading a bit more, anon. Feel free to post another and I'll tell you how it flows

>>16498724
>You don't know that it wouldn't have sold well if you'd made it $1 instead of free.
Yes, I can draw some conclusions from the fact that vol. 2 was $0.99 and the download count is barely a quarter of vol.1. In other words, even many of those who enjoyed the free first book found the dollar a wall too high.

>>16498729
Thanks, anon. I really appreciate all the constructive advice. These threads are great.

>>16498669
It's standard procedure in eastern countryies to write webnovels, get readers, become popular, then accept a deal from publishers/filmmakers or anime companies

>>16498833
I guess I fall in the really like it camp. I am not usually good at providing criticism I'm afraid, but it flows well for me and I think a lot of the imagery is quite clever. "shrewish and dour even in youth", "darkness divested them of starlight" were two of my favourites. I say go for it and submit, it can't hurt right?

>>16498871
So? It's not common at all in the west.

>>16498619
condense the material.

>>16498899
Thanks anon.

>>16499014
As in, make it more concise? I'm always caught between trimming down sentences, and hating and avoiding the Hemingway-style adverb-free stuff that reads like a newspaper.

I can’t wait til this bar exam is over and I can make y’all proud with the thousands of words I put out a day. God damn it. I don’t even want to be a lawyer anymore but this test... I need to crush it, lest it crush me.

How the fuck do I write if I hate reading "serious" literature?

>>16499064
Write something funny and not serous.

>>16499023
Respect my time; I can't be assed reading.

>>16499085
Then why are you on a literature board

>>16498619
>>16498833
This disheartens me. Take it as a compliment anon. I think my prose is good but I can't fathom how someone can make up all these characters and details. Like do you base them all of real people or do you just come up with ideas out of nowhere? How do you just invent people and situations? I think my imagination is lacking. Maybe I should look at journalism or technical writing, or take those cyber-security courses I've been interested in

>>16499064
Define serious.

>>16499138
Like Joyce, Tolstoy, Flaubert, all that highbrow shit

>>16499181
Okay, that's historical literature that is widely considered to be overly wordy. Read something else then.

>>16499181
Read catch 22 or confederacy of dunces

>>16499064
Don't write serious literature, then. There's nothing wrong with being a writer of pulp fiction, if that'a what you're into.

>>16499185
>Some of the most beautiful and valuable works of art the world has ever seen, masterpieces of prose and psychological profundity, brilliantly shedding light on the human condition in all its complexity
>widely considered to be overly wordy

Just go away, honestly. You'll never make it as a writer.

>>16499292
Ok.

>>16499296
Sorry anon, that was a bit harsh. It's just something I feel incredibly strongly about. My whole life value system is built upon the superiority of aesthetics and I will fiercely defend objective beauty until the bitter end. I highly recommend you give those books a serious try if you haven't already.

>>16498591
Alright. I want to put my critiquing chops to the test and I want to hear what people have to say about my analysis.

First of all, anon, you have a nice foundation there. Helen lays awake and is afraid of stars. I already know who' the protag is and I'm curious about why she's afraid of stars. Good job.
The most frequent issue I noticed is the abuse of poetic language. Timorously, praised their gleam, the foul heat, tail of a lame bitch. It can work when we are inside George the poet's mind, but since we headhop three times in two paragraphs I don't think it's warranted.

There's some telling over showing, or rather telling what you also show:
>she disliked being up
Why not just show me how bothered she is by the weight of her sheets, the room being too hot, the hours passing. Signs of insomnia that I, the reader, can relate to.

>it might have been the statues to which he sought to take her, now
An example of the will to be poetic getting in the way of your writing. You want your style to be such that it disappears from the page and lets me be carried away with the flow of the story. Your use of language keeps jolting me awake and reminding me I'm interacting with a piece of produced media.
All in all, I like the impressions the story gives me, but I think you are too enamored of your own prose.

>>16499313
I do not despise those kinds of books but I believe in the power and beauty of brevity as opposed to slogging through an overly worded paragraph that can be expressed in a sentence or two.

>>16498591
Ah, and
>nostrils heavy with dewy wood
is certainly is the worst sentence I read today. I get what you mean, but it's so contrived that any reaction it causes will be opposite to what you want.
You're not a bad writer and you should learn to stop getting in your own way.

>>16499327
Thanks for this, it's really helpful. I'll try to tone down the flourishes a bit. I do love poetry which perhaps detracts from my storytelling sometimes.

Can I ask what you think of the sentences following that opening?
>>16498833

What do you guys do if you can't get in the right mood to write your story? Not "I don't feel like writing," but "I'm too happy or energetic to write about something darker." Whenever I set aside time to write and my mood doesn't fit the content of the story, I just can't come up with any ideas for it

p-pls gib critique >>16494204

>>16499483
You write a happy story. Start something new. Have a second project going. If you feel like writing but aren’t in the mental space to relate to what you’re writing about then it would be impossible to write it. But you still need to get your words in on this lovely Saturday. So write something happy and fun and adventurous.

>>16499497
Why do people keep posting pastebin links? Shit's unreadable for prose. Couldn't you just, like, take a screenshot of your text editor page, or something, if you're too scared to share google docs?

>>16499519
>take a screenshot
The last time I did people bitched at me because "umm i cant quote your shit"

>>16499527
lol

>>16499358
>>16498833
I see largely the same issues, your languistic choices getting in the way of reading.
>As the darkness divested
The earlier sentence is complex enough that its not clear what this one is referring to. Furthermore, 'her eyes picked up' puts distance between the reader and the action. She picked up, or simply jumping to the mound in the darkness, since the reader already knows the perspective through which he's observing this narrative.
>pickled with sleep
Pickled brought me out of the narrative to think about what you meant. It might be that I'm ESL and unfamiliar with the expression, however.
>respected, revered
A lot of telling. I get the contours of a relationship, but I would do better with a snippet. Daughter ventures a comment, Mother cuts her off, Daughter meekly acquiesces. Or the like.
>she seldom spoke of her father
Only tangentially related to the above sentence. I would rather the narrative came back to Helen instead of jumping abruptly from mother to father.
>remembered
I take issue with the word because you immediately explain that what Helen has left aren't memories at all. Pick a better word or describe an actual memory

As I said, the same issues are present. If you want to write poetry, write poetry. If you want to write narrative, there needs to be action (meaning change) rather than reverie and description

>>16499483
I don't have the autist to make dedicated playlist, but I generally have some songs that fit the types of mood I want to write in. So I put it on, close my eyes and relax, maybe think about the scene halfway through the song when I have gotten in to the mood.

>>16499519
This. I won't go through the effort of clicking a link and reading through pages of pastebin shit but will always read someone's work from a screenshot.

Anyone looking for crits of their work (short story length max) reply and I'll give it a look.

>>16494204
I'll critique this soon.

>>16500064
Thank you

And when he snuffed out the flames they took the calm with them. The descending darkness was unlike anything he had felt before, unlike anything written in the masters' records. Now he learned there was a type of darkness that went beyond an absence of light - this one brought vertigo with it. It was the utter black of a bottomless hole, a maw as ubiquitous as the sky. It cut him off from the world and drew him into a space he should have been rejected by.
Then the shivering set in. It began so faintly, so gradually, when he finally noticed the chair creaking under the shaking of his bones his sense of time had already been drained from him, swallowed into the stagnant dark, and when he tried to seek purchase in that shivering, his last reminder of causality and only assurance that the world hadn't frozen in time, it turned monstrous, too unnatural to hold on to, and, soon, external, taking root outside himself, expanding into a ceaseless throbbing all around him, an earthquake rippling through air, only growing stronger, his bones, the furniture, the dust, his body was rattling against itself, the study's countless legs drummed the floor like thunder, the air clapped its electricity, it all weaved into a rhythm, towards a climax, matching frequencies against each other, until - synchronicity.
When the amplitudes reached their peak and everything both without and within him vibrated in tune the shaking slipped from his perception. Without anything fixed to hold on to there was no longer a way to sense the chaos. Shaking eyes can't see shaking worlds. Thus he lost his last notions of time, thus he came to recognize the meeting point of chaos and order, thus he entered the Palace Before.

>>16498669
Eh, publishers not taking work that has already been published online is very overstated, usually by bitter people who can't get published. If you have a good novel that they think they can sell, they're not going to turn it down just because a handful of people have read it on royal road or something. Hell, a lot of the most popular novels of the last 100 years started out as publications in newspapers before being sold in a novel format

>>16498517
Yes, I wonder what could be compelling people to write something that actually makes money in 2020. I think this is a case for the Hardly Boys

I've written a lot of poetry recently, though what I really want is to write my novel, because it has become exceedingly time consuming to write prose, it took me hours to get this opening two paragraphs down.

On October 10, 1491, Fr. Rodrigo de Leon was murdered while celebrating Mass in the village of Sando, some 10 miles west of Salamanca. The whole town was in attendance, but the murderer was not apprehended. When asked to recall that morning in later years, the townspeople spoke in hushed tones, their faces somber and reverent, as if they had seen visions of another world. Like that certain Christian man from fourteen hundred years ago, they had seen things which could scarcely be put into words. Consequently, they could give few answers to those who inquired. All that could be said of that morning was this:

While Fr. Rodrigo was leading the congregation in the recitation of the Credo, the church doors burst open and the room was filled with a blinding light for several seconds, until the doors were closed again. Fr. Rodrigo then stood before them, his robes stained with blood, eyes turned toward heaven and arms outstretched as if to embrace them all. He had a smile on his face, then collapsed and was dead. This was the unanimous testimony of the witnesses, including the young Fernando Almeira, though that is not in fact what he had seen.

>>16500658
>Like that certain Christian man from fourteen hundred years ago,
This phrase sounds a bit weird but otherwise I'm intrigued

>>16500658
If you're having a hard time getting words down, I'd suggest having the structure plotted out fairly well, so that you have a good idea of what you need to be writing. Whenever I find myself taking a long time to get words down on the page, it's either because I subconsciously don't like where the story is going, or I haven't put in the work to figure out what this chapter needs to be about for the story to work

>>16500747
it's a reference to 2 Cor. 12:2, but you've made me realize how forced it is, at least in how it currently worded.

>>16500658
>Like that certain Christian man from fourteen hundred years ago
Really?

>All that could be said of that morning was this:
Phrasing's a tad out of place, tempo wise

>for several seconds, until the doors were closed again.
You can do better

>including the young Fernando Almeira, though that is not in fact what he had seen.
Neat

>On October 10
My birthday

I want to get back into writing (with the aim of writing short stories) but I'm finding it hard to get that initial spark or motivation. I notice that the art community has things like Inktober, where you get a prompt (e.g. fish) each day and have to draw something related to it. Is anyone aware of anything like that but for short fiction? Either on this board or elsewhere?

>>16500878
There's the storythread on /tg/, where image prompts are regularly posted

Anons, how do you motivate yourselves to write knowing that in all likelihood that it will never be truly great? I know not to compare myself to professionals/famed figures in other fields (sport, drawing etc.) but with writing I just can't shake it. I'll start writing something, only to realise how poorly written it is in comparison to books I've read, and suddenly the whole exercise seems futile. What do?

>>16500899
Well, no author started out with their writing being great, anon. If you put in the effort you can definitely become good at writing. It's just something that takes a long time, since there's a lot of subtle things you need to learn and practice

>>16500899
Even if you'll never write a Moby Dick you may well end up writing one paragraph that'd deserve to be put down in the Dick

>>16500899
Watch this anon.
https://vimeo.com/85040589

>>16499028
I imagine that being done with the bar is one of the greatest feelings of relief in life. I almost wish that I lived in Wyoming or something where the bar is substantially easier than it is here in California

>>16501133
Nice message but incredibly distracting visuals

>>16501156
its the first link that pops up when I search for it. The visuals aren't really important. I suppose I should find one that's less gaudy.

Question to all: how do people allocate time to write? Do you have a set time each day that you have to spend writing? Or do you have a wordcount you need to reach each day and just write whenever you have time?

>>16500899
I suspect you aren't reading all the mediocre books out there but there's a lot so if it's a matter of success you don't need to be good. Try reading fewer classics and more modern, normie, genre trash. It's very heartening.

>>16501207
I write because I enjoy so I pretty much always have a document open and just flick between that and whatever else I'm doing (watching films, TV, 4chan, whatever). Weekends it's all day and weekdays is after work. I don't really get the point of setting a time for it or stopping when you hit a word goal (but I always aim to get at least 1000 a day).

>>16496637
Make the game first and make a story that would justify the gameplay mechanics nicely, the rest is just writing a good story over the main ideas that emerge from the gameplay

>>16500960
not that anon but as far as motivation and inspiration i think that's pretty good

>>16497776
Its not an artificial human its an artificial dungeon anon

>>16501207
Raymond Chandler in a 1949 letter to Alex Barris on the discipline of writing:

>What do I do with myself from day to day? I write when I can and I don’t write when I can’t; always in the morning or the early part of the day. You get very gaudy ideas at night but they don’t stand up. I found this out a long time ago….

>I’m always seeing little piece by writers about how they don’t ever wait for inspiration; they just sit down at their little desks every morning at eight, rain or shine…. However blank their minds or dull their wits, no nonsense about inspiration from them. I offer them my admiration and take care to avoid their books. Me, I wait for inspiration, although I don’t necessarily call it by that name… The important thing is that there should be a space of time, say four hours a day at the least, when a professional writer doesn’t do anything but write. He doesn’t have to write, and if he doesn’t feel like it, he shouldn’t try. He can look out the window or stand on his head or writhe on the floor. But he is not to do any other positive thing, not read, write letters, glance at magazines, or write checks. Either write or nothing…. I find it works. Two very simple rules, a: you don’t have to write. b: you can’t do anything else. The rest comes of itself.

>>16501298
Ha, I like that. Only problem is with my job I can't really set aside 4 hours a day for writing. But I could do less time and on weekends.

>>16501374
get up 2 hours earlier and write then

>>16501298
I'm quite a fan of writhing around on the floor when I can't come up with any words to put down

>>16501406
does it work?

>>16496724
Planescape: Torment.

>>16498659
Ebooks are not universally free. Over half the book market on Amazon is ebooks. I really don't know which universe you live in

>>16501449
Actually, yes. It's hard to be distracted by anything when you're lying down on the floor

>>16500069
I streamed my critique here. It's the first one. It's timestamped as the 'tomb story'.

https://youtu.be/d7nBuzWzNok
https://youtu.be/d7nBuzWzNok

>>16501594
I haven't watched it yet but I must say thanks a lot for taking the time to go through it man, I expected a "its bad lol" reply so again, thank you

>>16499483
Think of it as acting. You might be in a mood that does not correspond to the mood of the story. Still, your mind should be flexible enough to accomodate that difference. You should be able to put on different hats when the need arises and not be restricted in what you can do by your current state of mind.

How long will readers put up with the interactions of a man and a cat before they need something major to happen?
>it's pretty obvious from the start there's more to the cat than what the narrator is telling

>>16501725
Exactly as long as I still care about the man, the cat, or both.

You're not a true writer, until you have written one female character, who lactates.

>>16501787

>>16501725
Probably a few pages, unless your story is centered around the companionship with that cat. Like how Because of Winn-Dixie is about how the dog changes the girl. If you're just using the cat to show some personality traits of your focal character, don't let it drag on too long

>>16494419
I'm making my first earnest attempt at writing a novel, but the first page which is kind of a prologue is this really really descriptive depiction of a scene that will be important later. There is no dialogue. It's kind of hard painting a scene like this, but I think it will be good practice. I'm really excited about my idea too.

>finish the longest novella I’ve ever written
>tell my family and friends
>can’t even summon up the smallest amount of enthusiasm
It’s really soul sucking to not even have your family care.

>>16502543
Man, you're not writing for them, so who cares? I stopped trying to show my writing to people I know ages ago. Unless they're also writers and understand the amount of effort that goes into it, the response you receive is almost certainly going to be lacking. All that should matter to you is that you finished something, a goal that you set out to do. You can be proud of yourself for that without needing to seek out anything from others

>>16502611
I get what you mean, it’s just a little demoralizing when my family have no problem heaping impassioned criticisms of my failures but I actually accomplished something and they couldn’t care less.
I’ll continue to write in spite of that lack of enthusiasm but I wish I got at least some recognition. Maybe that’s selfish of me

Thoughts for/against using a wirting editor like Hemmingway?

>>16502543
>tfw my mom wants to read my novel but I don't want to show her it

>>16502543
Dude, families almost always suck. It's rare to one or two people that care. Don't let it bother you, Anon.

>>16502762
Hey, I'm proud of you anon. Writing isn't easy, so you've accomplished something big by finishing a novel. Don't let other people diminish your accomplishments

>>16502765
Hemingway editor is good for keeping track of your adverb and passive voice usage, but not for anything other than that. The issue with it, and many other editing software like it, is that it wants you to use the simplest sentence possible. It deems sentences that are a little complex as "hard to read" even if they read perfectly fine to even the dumbest of readers, because it quantifies the sentence based off of length and punctuation/lack thereof. It doesn't read a sentence like a human would

I’m trying to capture mental figments, phantasmal images of nostalgia or ideas which aren’t really complete coherent things which aren’t even fully there, things which exist on the periphery of the imagination and conception of ideas. Tell me if this poem captures the objective of invoking these “figments”


Figments


My son look upon this world
The Colored Gossamer lights
My son do not cry I am with you
Phanes and Phoebus declare
my son, i am absolute, I am anger of tigers
Silk worms eating mulberry
I am the first, I was there,
Cry not, my son I am you
I am the secret of eternity, obscured
The Ancient shadows, hidden sights
This world is born of my care
My skin shines and is so fair
I am the illuminating chromatic cacophony
Flame and iron kill the fairy
My son, cry you with I am
Bow and give to me my share
I am a ghost and my eyes are pearls of great price
For The phantoms make their absence known
Into my eyes none may stare
Cryogen within Mahamay-am
I am the scorned and the adored, I am hated
Seek my honor if you dare
The still lake contains hidden darkness
I glorify they who dare
the dark lake contains hidden treasures
Ma had been merrier than I
ash covers them, in the shadows they moan
they Who endeavor to stare
the dying tree is filled with such hardness
in the valley she anoints her skin with blood
and glory and takes their share
Of my holy face so fair
at once regret and terror shout “remember”
and I return to my children
They earn my love and my care
Marry the Son of Mary; I am
Even in hell I am there”
the valley is full of space and doesn’t change
the heavens are eternal and elixir cures but
the dying tree is filled with such hardness
Phanes and Phoebus declare
Ere Aima’s devouring become I am i
the Mirror shatters and I am freed of i

Would anyone here be interested in following the Inktober prompts to write some short fiction? Inktober is a series of daily prompts for drawing, but I don't draw and think it might be cool to use them for writing instead. Pic is the prompts for 2020.

If there's some interest here I'll make a new thread.

How would you revive the planetary romance without just copying whats already been done? I really miss the feel of otherworldly action-adventure tales on exotic fleshed out worlds that weren't bound by the restraints of modern hard scifi or feel the need to be part of some grand cosmic odyssey across planets.

>>16502805
My family doesn't care about anything except me getting a gf. They see time spent writing as time spent not getting a gf

What is the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level score of your story?

>>16502899
Yeah, sure. I'm always interested in stuff like that

>>16502802
>tfw have an idea for a novel but it'll basically just be me calling out my mom's side of the family on all of their bullshit and I know they'll completely miss the point and hate me for it

>>16502920
Then use your writing to get a gf and laugh at them

>>16502899
Does anyone else get disgusted by shit like this? Shit like NaNoWriMo and everything even remotely similar just grind my gears so fucking much. It's so fucking gay and I just wish a group of the most toxic men ever would come in to the literary space and ruin it for all these holes and faggots that promote this shit.

>>16502973
Ah, the modern Look Homeward, Angel

>>16502988
I don't really mind the stuff in that pic, but nanowrimo definitely annoys me. Real writers don't need a special month to write a novel, and I imagine it swamps agents with shit until the new year

>>16502991
That's on my list, haven't gotten to it yet. Is it good? Is it really like that tho?

>>16494204
First off I’ve been reading a lot of Dunsany and other early Weird fiction writers, so this feels like kismet. You capture that vintage tone perfectly, I love this.
Only one small nitpick:
Fantastically strong first sentence, but I’d move the part about having no memory towards the beginning, I wouldn’t make it the first thing but more like the second or third. When he gets up to run I feel you signal action but pump the brakes and go back to interior monologue. This isn’t bad or even wrong, it just feels ‘off’ to me as the reader.

>>16502996
>#Inktober
It's the same kind of shit. I just can't stand it.
>#MakeWritingToxicAgain
Let's get that going.

>>16502952
Cool, I'll make a thread tomorrow then.

>>16502988
Idk about nanowrimo, this just seemed like a fun thing to try out and practice writing/get the imagination going

>>16503006
I feel the need to heap a little more praise. Most people who imitate Lovecraft misunderstand him and go straight to describing all kinds of goofy ‘Lovecraft’ monster shit. You have the otherworldly setting, the decay and the horror of things half-remembered in a dream city.
Pitch perfect, you fucking nailed it.

It’s just too bad the social climate today frowns upon unironic admiration of Lovecraft without first condemning him.

>>16502988
But anon, how would I let my Instagram followers know that I write if I didn’t have a Nanowrimo hashtag to post under a picture of a Hogwarts coffee mug next to my laptop?

There's a short sentence, more of an expression really; from an article that I really wanna steal for my book
Will I get in trouble?

>>16503100
pic painfully related

Not all fiction is trash only genre fiction right? So what would be the highest order of fiction then, I want some inspiration

>>16503106
You could just put it in quotation marks; that would indicate it's not your expression without having to cite it academically or anything.

If it's not a particularly long or unusual expression you could just use it.

What's the expression if you don't mind my asking?

How to write romance?

>tfw prefer stuff from the 1800s
>tfw not really a fan of Hemingway
>tfw all I hear about is how great Hemingway is and how he changed writing
I'm never gonna make it, am I?

>>16503117
>genre fiction is trash

>>16503122
>man = rich and kinda a dick
>women = spunky
Every time someone writes that story someone makes another million bucks.

>>16503125
I'm not speaking for myself I'm speaking as the board, that seems to be the popular opinion, but I apologize for the stupid statement then

>>16502925
got a link?

>>16503128
Did Jane Eyre invent this

>>16503134
Pride and Pred probs

What is your opinion on this channel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF4Kw_J0RK8

>>16503128
Oh come on, be serious.
Would it help if I tell you that dynamic is inverted but it's all self love?

>>16503132
Fair enough, I was just busting your balls. I just disagree that genre=trash.

To answer your question, I guess I'd start with the classic novels of the western canon up to modernism: Moby Dick, Don Quixote, Middlemarch, Ulysses, etc. This is what tends to be considered "high" literature

>>16503139
I like him. Honestly, my pirating ass has a number of those Masterclass things, and Aaron Sorkin's one is the best for writers even tho it's supposed to be for screenwriters. He's the only one that really gets into the mechanics of a good story. The ones by actual writers are too caught up in the "magic" of it all or whatever.

>>16503140
>all self love
Nigga, what?
Also, bitches never go for the poor guy. He can be poor and then become rich in these days like with The Notebook, but historically the poorfag will always be a poorfag.

>>16503118
Let me look for it

It a very short and unusual expression, but I wanted to use it as part of a character's dialogue, so quotation marks don't really work

>>16503158
>bitches never go for the poor guy
Not true, bitches will go for the poor guy if he's chad enough

>>16503159
This is clunky but you could have the character say "you know, I read somewhere once: X" or words to that effect

>>16503158
I'll handle the details about that relationship just help me out on the dynamics, I'm not familiar enough with this topic

>>16503139
Its just parroting shit that everyone with half a brain would know intuitively

>>16503168
Maybe for the breeding stock. But they'll go find the provider once they've been knocked up a couple times, and then will still probably fuck the chad on the side. But I was talking in the context of a romance book.

>>16503177
Then go read romance books, you lazy bastard.

>>16503146
Those answers are exactly what I was expecting but my question is now clear, how would you use this plot device that's fairly common these days on genre fiction to attempt something a bit more, quality, just twisting right, bit more thought? what makes that quality?

>>16503189
You'd be surprised how easy it is to miss the obvious stuff. Stop being a snob.

>>16503199
It's the difference between a science fiction novel and a novel with science fiction elements. Its a fundamental underlying characteristic of the entire focus. Eg. Dune is a science fiction novel but Infinite Jest is a novel with science fiction elements. The focus shifts from the world/technology and how those things control the characters and plot to the characters being the focal point and the world/tech being used to enhance our perceptions and understandings of the characters.

What drives the conflict of your story? Space ships or the guy that pilots the space ships?

>>16503199
If I'm understanding correctly, you want to write in a genre fiction framework but make something that's a bit more "literary"? I guess I'd say the standard tactics for that are: subversion of the genre tropes/expectations, and greater emphasis on creating nuanced and complex characters than you see in run of the mill genre fiction.

Just off the top of my head, Paul Auster's New York Trilogy is often talked about in this context. I personally like it but have slightly mixed feelings towards it. But it is (I think) seen as "literary". It starts from the classic hardboiled detective genre framework, but subverts the common devices of the genre and becomes more of an exploration of identity. Is that the kind of thing you mean?

>>16503175
>This is clunky but you could have the character say "you know, I read somewhere once: X" or words to that effect

Doesnt work in the context I want to use it in

Lets simplify this, if someone "stole" a published expression of yours would you try to do something about it?

>>16503225
THE MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE

THE

MEDIUM

IS

THE

MESSAGE

>>16494137
I shit I piss I cum
I shit I piss I cum
I SHIT
I PISS
I CUM

>>16503106
>>16503118
It's literally one sentence, just use it anon

>>16502919
instead of conan in space, make harry potter in space

This is a mystical occult esoteric Christian metaphysical allegorical novella I wrote, it’s some 50 pages, could some of ya read it and tell me your thoughts and critique ?

https://pastebin.com/dTLY4kTN

Pic related being a little depiction of the main character

>>16503283
No

You know how fiction doesn't deal well with the random phenomenons since plot is supposed to feel like a string of meaningful situations that happen in relation/as a consequence of one another?
So how can I integrate a natural disaster into a story so that it doesn't feel like an out of nowhere lucky event hamfisted in the middle of things as an excuse to generate conflict? It seems like its the sort of thing that is only acceptable if its part of the premise/inciting incident/first act but that's not really what I wanted to go for.

>>16503353
>The television could be heard in the background. "A new report shows that geologic movement has been traced back to Mt. Plothole, for more on this we turn to Science Man from MIT. 'yes, well, the activity seems to be congruent with magma like activity-"

like on page 3-4 or something. I unno. Shoe horn it in somewhere early. Chekovs gun and all that.

>>16503220
>>16503224
That's exactly it, and I got a new example out of it, many thanks. So as long as it's not a surface level approach to the concept I should be ok to attempt, thanks again
> I personally like it but have slightly mixed feelings towards it.
Mind sharing the why?

hey i need help with making my horror story. i was wondering is it ok for the main charater hear about the monster early in the story then have a build up when he encounters it or skip the part where he heres the story and go straight ahead to the build up?

>>16503353
Use this anon advice>>16503373
Simply foreshadow the disaster beforehand, so it doesn't appear to be pulled out of the author's ass when he runs out of idea

How do I stop making all of my characters female. Not writing a harem or anything, but most of my character ideas appear in female form in my head.

>>16503616
You should foreshadow but not super hard I think. Rumors. Murmurs. We don’t know what it is or even if it’s an it.
>>16503841
Just replace the pronouns and give them masculine names. If your characters are unique enough their gender shouldn’t really matter because they are a culmination of their actions and personality.

Or just think about buff lumberjacks doin gay stuff and wrestling bulls as you write it.

Count Blackula entered the library.

“I’m glad you found your way in here,” said Blackula. “Did you know that I learned English entirely from books?”

“Really?” I exclaimed. “Your English is very good.”
“Thank you, but I only know the grammar and words,” he replied. “But I don’t really know how to speak the language.”

“But you speak excellently!”

“If anyone in London spoke to me, they’d immediately know I was a foreigner.’”

The Count scooted his chair closer to mine.
“When bad things happen, the first person they’ll be suspicious of is the foreigner,” said the count. “I want to blend in.”

“Yes, of course,” I replied. “Even though we are all Black, and therefore, Black brothers and sisters, some people still treat foreign Blacks poorly.”

“You’re officially here as a representative of Hawkins Abebe, but I hope you’ll also stay here a while and talk to me, so I can learn the Black English intonation.”

“Err … Abebe Hawkins?”

“Oh, in the Black Hungarian language, the surname goes before the first name. See? That’s why I need you to point out my mistakes,” he said.
Blackula smiled and put his hands on mine. I felt hair on the palms of his hands. This time, I managed to conceal my shock.

>>16501518
What?

>>16500543
>usually by bitter people who can't get published
Nice strawman, faggot.
>they're not going to turn it down
I'm still waiting for those actual examples.
>a lot of the most popular novels of the last 100 years started out as publications in newspapers
Fucking newspapers, usually owned by the same people who print the books. Getting into a magazine was "getting published" as officially as it could get, the writers were paid for it. You're a fucking retard if you compare modern online shitposting to that.

>>16502543
Not every family can be your biggest fan. When I finished my first novel, I gave it to my mother and asked for opinions, knowing she was an avid reader. For about three months I would ask her, "did you read it yet?" and she'd say, "no, I'm not in the mood for it". Finally, I took the manuscript away and she never asked after it. Haven't shown her anything since, or talked about writing with her. That was like 10 years ago.

>>16503283
I will try to read it if you can write a good blurb for it. I want you to really sell it, like it was being sold in an airport

>>16503864
>Just replace the pronouns and give them masculine names
That's... actually a good way to write lesbian relationships without pandering to the LGBT crowd

How do you balance your genuine love for evocative language with the alienating effect it has for a reader? My writing often comes off as pretentious, contrived, etc., and I really don't blame anyone for thinking that -- they've got a very real point. The problem is, I really just don't want to give in to the contemporary sparsity that characterizes contemporary literature. I just don't like it. My favorite authors don't write like that, and I don't want to either. I'm really struggling here and would appreciate some input. I can post my writing if it makes it easier, but I'd really prefer to deal with the issue in the abstract if possible.

>>16503006
>>16503076
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it, it's not complete yet, but I'll go back and try to improve what I got

>>16503964
Your favourite authors do write like that, and you're not a good enough writer to realize it.
Good writing blends together. What your favourite writers manage to do is write beautifully and still get the point or correct set of impressions across. You cannot do so, and what happens is that your language choices get in the way of your story.
To improve, first give up your pride. Write a story simply and to the point, payong attention to scene-sequel sequences, action beats, character development, etc. Then, over time, work on making your language beautiful.

>>16503964

>writer idolizes 19th century authors
>writes page after page of aimless, masturbatory gibberish, trying to be smarter than he is
>nobody else can make heads or tails of it
>"how doth I lower my art to the level of the hapless plebeians?"
Yep, the classic symptoms. You've caught the Anonymous Syndrome. The solution is to take your meds.

>>16504119
>To improve, first give up your pride. Write a story simply and to the point, payong attention to scene-sequel sequences, action beats, character development, etc. Then, over time, work on making your language beautiful.
I don't know why pride always seems to figure into this. Like if I'm so proud, why am I asking for advice? If someone has an unhealthy level of pride, would they be asking for advice on the specific issue they're supposedly too prideful of? This seems like really good advice though, and I probably do have just really weak fundamentals. Thanks.
>>16504125
>writer idolizes 19th century authors
Which 19th century authors do I idolize?

>>16504167
Because in my case, it was pride holding me back from finding out if I could write the most mind-numbingly simple stories whose only goal was to keep the reader engaged throughout.
Glad to hear you don't have that problem, though.

>>16504322
>Glad to hear you don't have that problem, though.
I think I do have that problem in a way, but I try not to be above suppressing it. I think that there's inherently some kind of pride, bordering on arrogance, that comes with the act of writing in itself. Why write anything at all if you don't have some secret, deeply secret even, pretension that you could eventually produce something significant? If we put something into words and share it with another person, that in itself says that we believe our voice is worth sharing. That's the kind of pride I don't want to give up, personally. I'll temper it as dramatically as I can manage and do my best to never let pride drive me to demean the genuine efforts of others, but I want to keep that little spark, because without it I don't think I could ever write another line.

I'm rambling, but I appreciate your honesty and want to try to give a little of my own in return.

>>16503962
Writing lesbian relationships will only get you lesbian readers (mostly). They won't like it if it isn't realistic and this method wouldn't create realistic relationships. Having said that, I find men often write more realistic lesbian relationships, at least in fantasy/scifi/YA genres.

>>16494419

Going to try and do 500 words of my short story. Hopefully will finish this soon.

>>16503927

The best I could sell it is this, The story is structured in accordance with the hermetic and Kabbalistic four worlds, with the strain of material being of Nicholai Hartman, it contains aesthetic traces from Goethe, Borges, orphism, Gnosticism, western alchemy especially the chymical wedding, strong doses of hermetica in general, will have a deep dive into melancholy, spiritual refinement, divine love, the nature of the heart and soul of man, the entire soul of our main character will unveil as an entire world of contents and it will end with an understanding of the consciousness of he, as the final portion of the story is his own reflections.

So if you’re interested in eastern or western esotericism or philosophy or just wanting to see the nature of a particular crafted human soul, you might enjoy the writing.

If you enjoy the symbolists or the surrealists you again, might enjoy it, if you enjoy weird fiction/ghost stories akin to Blackwood You might like the early portion.

The best and final thing I could shill though is that to me, the work represents a world of idea-harmonies which I myself enjoy and will enjoy and that I myself gained enjoyment from reading it.

>>16504729
You got some good things right, but lines like
>174 do not partake in vanity ‘least you have vanity drink your blood to the last drop
>178 wisdom is more worthy to look at with lusty eyes than any woman.
show that you still haven't made the essential step of embracing your vanity. You're too proud to admit you're proud.

>>16504781

Eh i admit daily I’m pretentious and enjoy being pretentious, it’s just vanity has specific religious connotations to me, example when I talking vanity I mean the entire hevel complex of Ecclesiastes ya know, and the wisdom more worthy than women is a genuine opinion, but I’m personally not really a horn-dog and never have been.

>>16504729
1. I reserve the right to read as I will. If you want me to move, to listen, to act, you must make me through writing. The explicit and extraneous will be ignored. Musical accompaniments, etc., will always be ignored.
2. I got to the deer section. Everything so far smacks of dishonesty. Am I supposed to dislike the narrator? We'll see.
3. You overuse did. Did use, did see, did kill -- enough already!
4. I feel like there's a way this story could be told where I could experience it instead of being subjected to it in long streams of telling
5. How does the sun going down impact desires? If anything, it would threaten the desire for company (curfews). Disjointed.
6. Ruth's dialogue, her first lines, are gramatically incorrect, and the use of punctuation doesn't reflect the inflection of speech. I wonder why the affectation.
7. Amendment, all the dialogue and interactions are very bad. 'Roy is a little sissy boy'? The unreality of the characters doesn't suggest the strange and disjointed way people sometimes act, but that the author couldn't build up to a plot point to save his life.
8. 40 minutes. The precise detail among the mess of unspecifics. However, I know it won't be important at any point. Eliminate.
9. Filled filling filling.
10. I do hope a ghost will rid us of Aurelia and her contrived lines
11. Why not extend this story to 300 pages and tell it honestly? You aren't better than narrative structure and chacter development, anon. You aren't better than giving a shit about keeping me interested.
12. Should I imagine a footman bringing word of Aurelia? 'Word of Aurelia, m'lord.'
13. Line 69 is fanfiction in spirit, if not in reality.
14. Everything is a prop
15. I was forced to skip about 200 lines of poetry. I did not sign up to read poetry; there is nothing poetic about the text so far; I do not care about random poetry beinf thrown at me. I'll stop here and return at a later date. Also, the blurb was shit. You animal.

>>16503888
Yes, most ebooks are paid, not pirated

>>16505033
What does that have to do with anything?

>>16505194
I'm sure your book is an exception, but most pirated books are very poorly formatted. Most people will pay money for a properly formatted ebook. People will often even pay for an ebook if they can acquire it from legal channels. You may think people wouldn't bother with books if they cost money, but you'd be surprised.

Ebooks =/= free or even pirated

>>16504526
>500 words
Genuine question, is this actually hard for you to do? I always hear how hard it is to write for some people, and I'm just here doing about 1000 words an hour as long as I know what's going on/going to happen. Granted, I can really only go about 4 hours before my head starts getting all fuzzy, so my main goal when I write is 3000 words a day.

How do you hide or just imply thoughts? Getting real tired reading life instropections while the character eats breakfast.

Can I really make a career out of peddling Amazon smut?

>>16505346
Why are you writing about the character eating breakfast? Is there a reason for it?

>>16505367
Could you? Yes.
Should you? Not if you want to actually do anything meaningful with your life.

>>16505380
>life
>meaning

I'll make meaning by using the earnings to write my epic philsophical novel that nobody will buy.

>>16505249
Well, I'm not convinced by your argument. First of all, the pirate copy is usually ripped from Kindle or whatever and is the exact same as the official ebook version. There's no difference in formatting. Secondly, I've noted that non-professionals know fuckall about formatting and I can't believe that'd be the hook for anyone.

I personally pirate almost all the books I read these days, and if I want a book for myself, I'll buy the print edition and not an ebook.

>>16504729
I'm interested in all of those things and you still haven't managed to make me want to read it.
>>16504976
This is the most accurate feedback I've ever seen on /lit/.

>>16505408
And nobody will buy it because of the smut you wrote. Think, nigga. There's more wholesome ways to make money. Take the screenwriters from Hallmark for example.

>>16505434
I personally buy my ebooks because it's more convenient and I'm not fucking poor.

>>16505460
Ah, yes, it's the "but I am not poor" argument that wins everything. Let's end here then. It's not like you had anything to say in the first place.