/lit/ - Literature

>All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the ‘elect’ have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it. I brought away a copy from Salt Lake. The book is a curiosity to me, it is such a pretentious affair, and yet so ‘slow,’ so sleepy; such an insipid mess of inspiration. It is chloroform in print. If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was a miracle — keeping awake while he did it was, at any rate. If he, according to tradition, merely translated it from certain ancient and mysteriously-engraved plates of copper, which he declares he found under a stone, in an out-of-the-way locality, the work of translating was equally a miracle, for the same reason.

>The book seems to be merely a prosy detail of imaginary history, with the Old Testament for a model; followed by a tedious plagiarism of the New Testament. The author labored to give his words and phrases the quaint, old-fashioned sound and structure of our King James’s translation of the Scriptures; and the result is a mongrel — half modern glibness, and half ancient simplicity and gravity. The latter is awkward and constrained; the former natural, but grotesque by the contrast. Whenever he found his speech growing too modern — which was about every sentence or two — he ladled in a few such Scriptural phrases as ‘exceeding sore,’ ‘and it came to pass,’ etc., and made things satisfactory again. ‘And it came to pass’ was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet.

Mark Twain, Roughing It

>>16480594
Twain was a hater and contrarian. (Nothing wrong with that) He was just mad cause had a thing for a Mormon chick.

Alot of his criticism is funny if innacccurate.

>>16480594
Lol good op Twain. Having read the BOM 6 times I can say that Twain is just being a hater. Read the chapter in Lehis vision of the tree of life. Then check out Almas exposition on faith in Alma 32. It far surpassed anything the Bible has to say about Faith explicitly. Hebrews 11 is ok but you don’t need anything other than Alma 32.

Gospels are fine of course but I’m talking about straight up exposition on the doctrine of faith.

>>16480594
I love Mark Twain, but his depiction of medieval times in Connecticut Yankee is comical

but who gives a shit. I'm getting ass hurt about some old guy getting mad at another guy.

>>16480581
sell me on Mormonism. I've been interested for a while now but some things about it keep me away. For one, I can't wrap my head around how you can justify polygamy.

>>16481450
Did God not justify polygamy for Abraham?

>>16481450
Abraham, Israel, and Jacob all practiced polygamy. Basically, every soul in the world should be able to get married. (You need to get married to get to the highest level of heaven) so what do you do if the population just has more women than men? but modern mormons are ardently against polygamy, and (secretly) just see it as something that the world is not ready for.

>>16481450
They are well-adjusted and happy people but they are also an insular, highly
nepotistic and conformist mafia, on the same level as the Jews especially out here in Idaho and Utah.

>>16480594
kek

>>16481535
Yeah but I’ve grown to accept it as based at this point. I mean they are literally trying build the kingdom of God. The even have state boundaries set in place and food and resources to last them decades when all hits the fan.

>>16481450
You need to study the doctrine.

For a easy way read “articles of faith”

Super straight forward doctrinal expose that will tell you all you need to know about why their doctrine is the most comprehensible.

>>16481532
“Secretly” no they don’t. It’s literally not allowed and is condemned. Until a bright back for some reason than they will be forced to accept it again though. No Mormon “secretly” is waiting to become a polygamist. Maybe a few but that’s not doctrinal nor is it common amongst the populace

>>16480581
I grew up LDS there's a reason the exmormon movement is so popular, traditionalist fetishism aside, it's not pretty

>>16481812
you're right. these were all speculations from one of my seminary teachers. he also told us that by the time of the second coming, the world would already be divided in a hirearchichal system of govenrment for jesus to rule through, namely, the whole world would have a ward nearby, and every ward would be near a stake. also, he speculated just as there is a tree that doomed adam and eve, when you become a god, you'd do it by partaking of the tree of life, the same one lehi saw in his dream. mostly fun little "head canons"

but this idea is to explain the fact that joseph did practice polygamy after all. how can we explain that away? well, not only was it not a bad thing, it was the righteous thing to do, another example of the "higher law." i always thought it was kind of like all the masonic temple rituals that you're not supposed to share with the world because it'd be casting pearls before swine and they'd mock them, this belief is sacred and shouldn't be told: polygamy is the answer for gender disparities in populations

>>16480685
>Lol good op Twain. Having read the BOM 6 times I can say that Twain is just being a hater.
Read the chapter in Lehis vision of the tree of life. Then check out Almas exposition on faith in Alma 32

Id disagree with you there, yeah there is a bit of hyperbole but it really is a generally dull book and chapters like Alma 32 are really rare and one of the reasons Alma 32 stands out so well is how refreshing it is compared to the other dry and repetitive 60ish chapters of Alma. its a similar case with the tree of life compared to the grafting of the olive plant.

>>16481450
The Book of Mormon explicitly rejects polygamy - however Mormonism / the Latter Day Saint Movement believe in continuing revelation so its not really an issue - they believe its literally an instruction from God which is why they were also able to end the policy when faced with violence by the federal government (few if any religions have ever faced such hostile treatment by the feds in US history).

As for Mormonism generally - its the only Religion that lets you become a God of your planet and have endless celestial sex with your harem of Goddess wives - but only if you perform the correct works in this life time.

That said there are a lot of difficult things to accept within the religion and it is comparatively quite demanding time and money wise compared to most usual faiths. So only get into it if you genuinely believe in it or are infertile.

The main test though is the challenge of Moroni which is to pray sincerely to know if the book of mormon is true - if you do it right you should receive a burning in your breast sensation which is the Holy Spirit telling you to go ahead.

>>16481812
Not that anon but they still believe in spiritual polygamy and see the past practice of polygamy as a positive thing thing.

>>16481849
How was your mission?

>>16481535
>They are well-adjusted and happy people
Thats not true Utah has one of the highest suicide rates of all US states and the highest rate of anti depression consumption in the whole US.

>>16482107
Sounds like Injun problems

>>16482132
Those issues certainly affect them more but it doesn't explain it as Utah has much greater levels of suicide and anti depressant use than states with a much higher populations of injuns overall and proportionally.

>>16482132
Injuns and Mormons aren't mutually exclusive. Mormons actually have put a special emphasis on converting Native Americans because they believe Natives are descended from the Tribes of Israel and are therefore sacred.

>>16482107
>suicide rate reflects happiness level
>suicide rates in utah say something about the mormon population even though all adjacent states are also high in suicides
>there's enough mormons in utah that a statement about utah is a statement about mormons
>the mormon church doesn't have an inactive rate of 60%
I don't know man, this sounds like correlation vs causation

>>16482990
>I don't know man, this sounds like correlation vs causation
Think of it this way if Mormonism plays a causal role in making people happy and well adjusted would you expect a region with the highest concentration and number of Mormons in the world (and where the political class is heavily Mormon and has been for its entire history) to also be a place which is very high (and when it comes to anti depressant consumption the literal highest) in measures which are associated with lack of well-being and happiness.

Indeed if these factors were the products of the general region would you not expect this place to stand out from its neighbors on the map? Much like it does in pic related
>there's enough mormons in utah that a statement about utah is a statement about mormons

>>16482036
I mean I don’t disagree with him about the system of government that’s set in place for Jesus. That’s already happening and is pretty extensive. The organization is there and I think they also have enough resources/ land to sustain themselves. I wouldn’t be surprised if they become their own sovereign state and am honestly expecting it at this point. Maybe something likened to the Vatican being it’s own country.

>>16481849
It really isn’t bad at all. Exmos are some of the most hyperbolic lying faggots I’ve ever met.

>>16483289
The Mormon standards are high. If you can live them then you are basically an elite Christian. but if you can’t you risk falling into an extreme state of darkness because the level that you are held to is so high. It’s not the church’s fault people can’t read the doctrine themselves and learn that Jesus will always love them but they let the social aspect get to them and cause them to feel shunned by the people, having never really known the live of Christ.. That and the high density of social Mormonism in Utah doesn’t help at all and is probably the biggest contributing factor.

>>16481532
>>16481470
What do all the men without a women do?
Its an archaic system only useful if you are going to kill off the men in war or something or else they'll just form gangs and kidnap women and pillage.
If you want to have a stable society with men with stakes in it so that they build a better future for all you need monogamy. There is no proper civilization with a dude hogging all women.

>>16484648
Mormon standards high? The standards for members are high. Prophets can do whatever the hell they wish with deification being the result. Need I mention Smith's polygamy, plagiarism, repeated legal violations, the violent reaction to free press?

>>16484694
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_boys_(Mormon_fundamentalism)

>>16483289
>with the highest concentration and number of Mormons in the world
you may or may not be right, you're still making the same assumption
I have 5 containers, each with 1 gallon of hot tea
I add 2 drops of lemon juice into one and don't add any drops into the others
the container with the most amount of lemon juice reaches room temperature first.
is that causation or correlation?

>Much like it does in pic related
utah is the state with the least smoking and drinking. I personally attribute part of that to the word of wisdom. but i admit that logic is based on an assumption and could be overruled by other factors. The sin taxes that mormons made, --state wide-- that affect 100% of the people in the state, is a more solid assumption.
Take for example the picture you posted. Utah has the youngest population, young people are more likely to die from suicide than heart failure or cancer, ergo, that might be a big part of the suicide rate. Also, that might help explain the high suicide in adjacent states.
Are you meaning to tell me that there is a big cluster of states with high suicides, they all have a certain social factor in common that we can't pinpoint. We'll call it social factor X. all these states have a high suicide rate because of social factor X, but the state right in the center, is due to mormonism? and if not, then by how much?

>>16484721
The only thing people CAN do is mention smith. It’s a cope that makes them feel comfortable with ignoring the last 200 years.

>>16484721
Every prophet from the beginning has “plagiarized” previous prophets. Gods word is the same yesterday today and forever so the “plagiarize” argument is dumb. Furthermore the word of God is spirit. I don’t doubt for a second that he used phrases he may have memorized from the Bible to convey the “spirit” of the words and messages in the BOM. The entire religion is based on a dude raising himself from the dead. So to talk of “plagiarism” isn’t very effective. Also polygamy is a huge part of the Bible why do people like to ignore that. Lots of prophets who were seen highly in gods eyes had multiple wives. Solomon is just one example.

>>16484648
>Elite christian
Haha, holy shit. Is this what morning actually believe?

>>16485696
>other sects believe you can murder someone and there'll be no punishment as long as you say "Jesus is my savior"

>>16485696
They don’t but if you look at the things they commit to do it’s obvious. Besides being humble amd meek is also part of being Christian. As an outsider no other Christian denomination really is about “taking up your cross” as much as Mormonism is

>>16485509
Women live much longer than men, thus there should be more women than men. Monogamy works in city areas where populations are equalized by disease and siege famines

>>16487275
Makes sense

>>16484721
I mean yeah, there's a lot of evidence that supports those claims, but compare him to a lot of of other religious leaders and he's pretty mild.

>>16480581
The thought of Mormons posting on 4channel cracks me up

>>16480622
>>16480685
take your meds.

>>16481535
>They are well-adjusted and happy people
Mormons are gigantic assholes, they just express it in random bursts of tension built up.

>>16481812
Utah recently decriminalized polygamy. Why would they have done that?

>>16481450
>sell me on Mormonism.
Religion for narcissists.

>>16480581
Is Wealth of Nations really that widespread?

>>16488298
Because all the real Mormons moved to Mexico to keep it traditional

>>16488343
>Mormons
>traditional
Pffft hahahahahaha

>>16488343
I don't understand. So they want the "real Mormons" back?

Test

>>16482990
So are rurals just prone to killing themselves or what? I'd never have thought Texas and Cali would be spanking every other state in their areas.

>>16488370
Unless I'm reading the graph wrong, I'm pretty sure you're reading that graph wrong. Wouldn't that imply that Texas and Cali are actually LESS prone to suicide?

>>16484648
>If you can live them then you are basically an elite Christian.
Out of interest what are your thoughts on Jehovah's Witnesses

>>16485300
Im not saying its a formal proof just that it is evidence against the claim that Mormon belief makes people happy and well adjusted.

>I have 5 containers, each with 1 gallon of hot tea
I feel like this is a rather deceptive analogy because its attempting to down play the Mormon Character of Utah - Now if I was attempting to say Mormonism made Brazil poor this would really be apt but its not.

>The sin taxes that mormons made, --state wide-- that affect 100% of the people in the state, is a more solid assumption.
Well taking a look at the data with respect to smoking - is that still a more solid assumption?

>>16485509
>Also polygamy is a huge part of the Bible why do people like to ignore that.
But is it held to be a morally good and desirable practice? Likewise how well does it align with the teachings of Jesus as recorded in the Bible and the book of Mormon?

>America is holy land and native american asiatic drunkards are the ancient Israelites
And I thought Jerusalem was a tough sell. Jesus.

>>16488114
There's so many that shitpost from Utah that my cell carrier is rangeb& so I can only lurk in interesting threads. Besides momo's are based and didn't treat blacks as equals until the 1970's

>>16488348
The pope is a heretic as well.

>>16488575
Leftypol and discord trannies weren’t enough? Now this shit?

>>16481276
>>Comical
>>Is a comedy

>>16488647
Yes. God literally says these polygamists hold favor in his sight. Moses, Noah and Solomon all had multiple wives. This is not a Mormon topic it’s a Christian one.

It’s the same between the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Book of Mormon talks about it as a way to “raise up seed”

It was a good way to bolster numbers back in the day when god commanded it. That being said his commandments vary depending on the needs of the people at the time. Thou shalt not murder accept wen I tell you too basically and that message is consistent throughout the Bible and BOM. In fact the BOM clarifies things that the Bible has lost over the years like the fact that infants do not need to be baptized as they are unable to know the law and therefore cannot commit sin yet.

>>16488357
The ones that still practice polygamy are not official Mormons. They just wanted to continue to fuck a bunch of woman. Real Mormons consider them apostate and dint consider them to have the priesthood keys or ordinances.

>>16488575
JWs are fine people and make plenty of sacrifices. From the LDS viewpoint though they are deeply confused on topics of doctrine.

>>16489056
So why does Utah care about decriminalizing polygamy?

Which is more based, FLDS polygamy or Wahhabist/Islamic polygamy?

>>16489056
Then how does Mormonism reject polygamy but still give J. Smith a pass?

Why are polygamists who practice their mormonism in the very same way their founder and prophet did apostate?

>>16489242
I have no idea, but jews practiced polygamy in the bible, but its not common any more due to custom.

>>16489252
Ah, since Mormons aren't Christians that makes sense.

>>16481450
Read the King Follet discourse

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng

God was once a mortal man who became exalted and you can be a god too.

>>16489265
Mormons are 100% Christian

>>16489333
Christians are Trinitarian, my good mormon friend.

*slaps your back*

>>16489242
Because it used to be an ok thing to do before it was abolished

>>16489343
by the feds and mormons bent the knee

>>16489343
that's not really good reasoning. did mormon jesus tell them not to?

Jesus Christ already banned it in NT, but mormon jesus was cool with it.

>>16489242
They received revelation that it wasn’t necessary anymore. Some bro’s didn’t like that so they bounced and kept on trucking

>>16488311
I laughed.

>>16489352
ah so it goes:

OT: God is ok with it.
NT: Jesus bans it.
Mormon fan fiction: mormon jesus cool with it
Mormon revelation: mormon jesus not cool with it

you think he's gonna get cool with it again?

>>16480594
>Mark Twain (pbuh)
Ftfy

>>16484648
>Jesus will always love them
Hersey. Christ holds the impentitant sinner in hatred. 'I never knew you' ... 'depart from me ye cursed into everlasting darkness'.

>>16489405
yeah hit him with two out of context bible quotes. dont even bother including the whole setences let alone a citation. thatll convince him and everyone else reading. we are very impressed by your personal interpretation of jesus quotes you heard once

>>16489530
It's not out of context. Aquinas agrees too.

>>16489037
>Yes. God literally says these polygamists hold favor in his sight
Thats not answering the question, I asked you if the Bible and the Book of Mormon hold the practice itself to be a good and desirable practice not whether it has people who practised it and held favour in God' sight. Theres a big difference there.

>It was a good way to bolster numbers back in the day when god commanded it
So if people started practising polygamy when there wasnt a big gender imbalance (unless there is another situation where it would create more children than the usual system) that would be an improper use of it?

>>16489242
Because he is their founder + its worth remembering that for most of his life his polygamy (and bigamy many of his wives were already married) was kept a secret within the church and the practice was publicly denounced by them

This was even to the extent that Smith's first wife didnt learn of it until a couple of years before his death.

>>16480581
If a book gets translated into a 100 languages, it appeals to the simple masses and is probaly shit.

>>16481470
Why can't women have a bunch of husbands? It's hypocritical if it's not both ways

>>16481276
Yeah it's not an accurate depiction of anytime but a list of various things from many ages

>>16489858
What purpose would it serve? Men can impregnate tons of women, but women can't bear the child of more than one man at a time.

>>16489858
>It's hypocritical if it's not both ways
Why would that be hypocrisy? Men and women are different.