/lit/ - Literature

>>16473672
how are you going to cope with your arguments being btfo'd by Industrial Society and Its Future?

>>16473672
>a new technocratic, totalitarian socialist manifesto

>>16473672
>enlarging image in mspaint
I know it's bait but you could have at least tried a bit.

>>16473672
Most kids these days get their politics from HOI4 mods.

>>16473672
>technocratic,
based
>totalitarian
based
>socialist
possibly based

>Does anyone have any idea how I could spread my views faster? Shooting up a place usually guarantees a thread or two. could work. good luck to you I guess.

Not utilizing a system that lets you have even a microscopic say makes you an S-rank retard. Primaries are the most important, but even this shit storm will determine many outcomes for many people.

>>16473711
Okay it's kind of based but I really don't like the t*ch part

>>16473672
make sure to do something fun in minecraft to help bolster publicity.

>>16473672
Technocracy is fucking gay and one day the sun itself will grow tired of your shenanigans and silence you forever

>>16473742
Well, technology is essentially to maintaining a state not able to be butt raped by other states, so the dismantling in a national setting is impossible since it completely eradicates any international leverage you have.

Technocracy, in the sense that instead of a democracy, we just have a quasi-democracy for party members and industries are represented by elected representatives (who also have to be party members) in a chamber, going back and forth on legislation. It’s made to merge the interests of the workers with that of the party, and the party itself is by design mostly composed of young people who worked in the “private” sector (composed of more flexible Quangos, carrying out contracts for departments overseeing the fulfillment of things) for a few years, got out of it.

bare

bump

>>16473672
The same people who promote totalitarianism or whatever will always be the first to be sent to the gulags under such systems and you'll be kicking and screaming all the way. Just remember there is a bullet for everyone's head

>>16473672
>The dumb masses aren't capable of making political decisions!
>except for me of course hehehe

>>16474187
He said that cause he was a fuckin employee of the KGB, man it was his job to be nuts. Marxism has never been tried

>>16473672
>>16473861
Human technocracies are garbage we already have that shit (just look at the black projects and alphabet agencies pozzed by secret interest groups), either go full trad or full trans no in between.
With transhumanist technologies society is built from the bottom up, citizens are designed, any stupid imperfect ideology realized as a utopia and not some mangled mongrel ruined by a freedom to action dictated by ignorance, diversity and competition of preference.

Fuck you i'm making a primitivist, libertarian, capitalist manifesto just to spite you.

>>16473672
you sound kinda like me LMAOOO I am writting this since i was in highschool although i just have 30 pages only and it's shit. I have figured it out though and i wont help you spread your potentially retarded ideas

>>16473763
NIGGER!!!

>>16473672
>technocratic
>doesn't know how to use the internet

lmao, fuck off and shove your larp manifesto up your ass you fucking inconsequential faggot

>>16474434
This same line over and over again you broken record

>>16473742
>>16473861
>>16474736
niggers believe technocracy is the rule of machines or something?? please make a flip.

>technocracy is rule by technology
/lit/ is plumbing depths never thought possible.

>>16473672
It worked for him

>>16474795
Yeah, I honestly expected more intelligent answers from this board but instead we have a bunch of conservatives and libertarians chimping out,

Not a Marxist, not leftist (the regime would perform operations on gays and trannies), I’m just a guy trying to make a new non-Marxist socialist ideology

I got disillusioned with this kind of autistic worldbuilding when I realised how retarded practically all wouldbe technocrats are.

>the democratic party but totalitarian
That sounds like garbage

>>16473672
Consider wearing a dress and shoving a vibrating dildo in and out of your ass, this will appeal to those with ears to hear

>>16475607
This work with every ideology tho. Monarchy Doesn't work when you realize how retarded kings are. Democracy Doesn't work when you realize how retarded the average person is.

>>16475597
So you are just doing it to be different? that is a terrible motivation.

>technocratic, totalitarian socialist
Literally the ideology for ”people” without souls

>>16476244
Again, I’m genuinely amazed by how stupid some of you are. What happened to this board

>>16475659
>Monarchy Doesn't work when you realize how retarded kings are
>ahah all kings are dumb!
You lost my interest.

>>16476376
Not agreeing with you makes someone stupid? LMAO, you're underaged bud. Fuck off.

>>16475597
Something tells me you don't know what Marxism is.

>>16476759
this is shit bait

>>16476765
This entire thread is shit bait, not tell me what the fuck is Marxism.

>>16476783
This entire thread is. If you can't figure it on your own your whole species deserves to die. It's really god damned simple to analyze theories of value, develop your own and contradict it. If you can't do that on your own you deserve to die. It's really god damned simple

>>16476795
>This entire thread is Marxism
What?

>>16476801
jesus retard, that's not even idiosyncratically written in terms, of, punctuation. You're never going to learn about marxism and will chase boogeymen your whole life. You're a retarded nazi

>>16476821
Why is everyone on this board a fucking schizo lately?

>>16476841
Stfu u dumb bitch

>>16474706
wow i bet your high school manifesto is really great and worth reading, retard

>>16473672
Can you send it to me? It sounds based. If yes, I'll leave a temporary email when you reply

>>16473672
>a new technocratic, totalitarian socialist manifesto
Sounds retarded. Stopped reading right there.

>>16473672
Unless you commit multiple breaches of human rights, no one will read your shitty manifesto. In minecraft, of course.

>>16476992
Yeah, I’ll send you the intro since that’s polished.

>>16477061
redakted1@protonmail.com

>>16473672
>>16473711
>technocratic
based
>totalitarian
cringe
>socialist
cringe

>>16477163
Alright, I’ll send it over

>>16473672
>My friend and I are writing a new technocratic, totalitarian socialist manifesto and I’m wondering how to spread it around.
How about no?

Let me know when you get to the part about destroying the technological system instead of perpetuating it.

>>16473672
The advocacy of technocracy demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of politics. Politics is and will always be a moral endeavour. To reduce politics to mere administration isn't the progression of politics, but its annihilation. It is the spirit of the economist who sees men as mere numbers to be measured and manipulated—an autistic view of mankind unfitting of political matters.
Politics deals with the normative concerns of society. What does a chemist know of justice? or a doctor of equality? what insights into the human character does an engineer uniquely posses? None which stem from their occupation. The problems of politics are not technical problems.
Perhaps instead you mean the department of commerce should be run by economists, and the department of health by doctors? This is the logic of a child. The proper administration of these sectors is a skill entirely separate from being able to perform the jobs being administrated. But, you may further add, they have an understanding of the sector through their previous occupation, so they will know the specifics of the problems at hand. If you had any knowledge of politics you would realise that such people are already consulted on the technical aspects of policy, which dissolves any advantage the technocrat may have. If not experts in this sense, then experts in what? experts in politics and administration? Isn't that precisely the system and problem we already have?
Perhaps then it is not the administration, but the vote that is the problem. The vote only selects for the most popular, and not the best, right? But every system has its own selection pressures. Replace the democratic spectacle with bureaucratic shuffle, and the politician with the mandarin. We should not suppose this system any better at recruiting the competent, no matter if that is construed as something as low as the best bean-counter. Rather the sycophantic and immoral. So you take away the vote, and instead of being beholden to the whims of the people they are beholden to the whims of bureaucrats and party chiefs. Rather than have discretion to act curtailed and shaped by the beliefs of the people, you have the iron cage of regulation and personal connections. You retard the polities character, erode all safeguards against arbitrary coercion, and provide fertile ground and ready-made tools for tyrants. As you clearly lack even a basic political education, i will suggest you look up how Stalin gained power of the Politburo to discover the fate of your utopia. You reduce politics to mere administration and destroy any possibility of moral discretion. Implementation of policy is the least part of politics, yet the part you want to raise highest while gaining not even that.
Technocracy is the system wished for by fools, staffed by knaves, and run by tyrants. Know that if you ever attempted to put your system into practice, i would be the first to pick up a gun and scatter your brain across the pavement.

>>16477254
Well, party members would be the administrative force behind the various industries, elected by their fellow workers and trained in the party’s own schools to efficiently manage them. They’d be removed from office should approval rates fall low enough, and a social credit system, an omnipresent surveillance systems, and caps on bank accounts would remove any chance for corruption. We need to build a society around adapting and melding structures to enhance the efficiency of the activities that the collective partakes in.

Truthfully, morality lies in a material surplus, the generation of purpose, and cultural discipline, not whimsical philosophical discussions. See a man skinning animals alive to sell their pelts? Throw him in a labor camp until he’s whittled down to skin and bones, and flay him alive in front of other people who’ve been charged with less egregious animal abuses. That’s how you set it a precedent and reduce crime.

You’re thinking in absolutes, which is not surprising for a supporter of democracy and the threat, funny enough, also shows the natural authoritarian tendencies of your own system’s believers. If you don’t believe in human rights, why should I believe in yours?

bump

>>16477254
>Politics is and will always be a moral endeavour.
Only a manchild with no real world experience or even understanding holds this opinion in the year 2020.

>>16477328
>Truthfully, morality lies in a material surplus, the generation of purpose, and cultural discipline, not whimsical philosophical discussions. See a man skinning animals alive to sell their pelts? Throw him in a labor camp until he’s whittled down to skin and bones, and flay him alive in front of other people who’ve been charged with less egregious animal abuses. That’s how you set it a precedent and reduce crime.
You're retarded, sorry.

>>16473672
>I'm writing a manifesto
>I haven't finished it yet
>uhh it's based on a lot of stuff
>tell me how do I get famous like my hero karl marx

>>16478259
Actually, I’m trying to write it anonymously since I don’t want it to impact my work life.

>>16478176
It’s called extracting value and enforcing discipline through mirror morality. It’s simple, it’s productive, it teaches a lesson, and it generates a surplus.

>>16478286
What I meant was: write the fucking thing instead of yakking about it. Talking about doing something is the number one thing that stops you from doing it.

>>16478286
Ted K has already retroctively refuted whatever cringe you’re coming up with, but on the off-chance that you do proceed writing about it, share it with us so we can tear up your asshole

>>16478513
Well, I am writing it but figured I could get some encouraging advice or at the very least advice from this board.

>>16478539
Ted K is smart, but I think his disgust for technology was myopic. What humanity and whatever life forms succeed us accomplish will cement us in the history of the universe as extreme outliers.

Humanity should not die on earth or mars. Think bigger than AnPrim

>>16478903
>What humanity and whatever life forms succeed us accomplish will cement us in the history of the universe as extreme outliers.
You are obsessed with immortalizing yourself in the material.
>Humanity should not die on earth or mars.
Why not?

>>16478328
Skinning a man alive is utterly absurd and illogical in the context you're presenting it with, it's something that would be done purely out of a moralistic outrage. Reason and morality do not by any means go hand in hand.

>>16479421
I disagree. Morality goes hand in hand with reason, and while you might cost yourself some material things to make the defective’s life nicer, you must all the while prevent mistakes from replicating.

>>16475659
the difference is technocrats have a complex about what they spent their life on and believe they're infallible and that everyone should listen to them. i'm sorry but i've never seen an academic, the main proponent and beneficiary of technocracy, that wasn't a narrowminded retard making obvious mistakes as soon as a topic requires something beyond reciting a textbook.

a king is one person and monarchies are not usually autocracies, so they are bound to much more than even a middling bureaucrat in any modern system, especially in the extremely decentralised medieval context. the fundamental difference is that monarchy follows more closely, more organically from the population while any modern system exists effectively independent of the population as an entrenched institution that aims to sustain itself which a tiny minority benefits hugely from as they largely own/control it. all systems that entertain a modern logic will be like this. the problem isn't having rich and poor though the extreme disparity today is obviously a problem, the problem is having a system that doesn't follow from the population it awkwardly and ignorantly imposes itself on the population, with seemingly incoherent things imposed a lot of the time because it actually acts to sustain itself and circumstantially benefit that tiny minority, with basically zero consideration for the population much less organically following from it. this is why there's seemingly always a massive cultural and social disconnect between people and the media, which is pushed so hard to 'update' the people, then start again when something newly arbitrary needs to be pushed.

>>16478328
I generally agree with the principle but it simply doesn't work because it is incompatible with human psychology no matter the implementation never mind the fact that any implementation would be a failure for obvious reasons.

You will create something more like communist China with humanity stripped and completely immoral drive to survive and push down others. Only caring about getting away with something than actually feeling anything (but fear of deprivation of freedoms). Obviously the society that comes from this is animalistic and degenerate, incapable of any ideals or simple good faith much less elevation of humanity.

>>16473672
>I can use the school’s resources to create pamphlets and other educational material.
I will aways be pro-spending school money, but does anyone ever actually reads a political leaflet some student handed to them on campus?

>>16473672
technocracy is gay. Fucking leninist Bureaucracy is even superior to that shit.

>>16473672
Just spread Chinese propaganda, they do that better than you amerifaggots could ever dream of.

>>16479967
that is a good point

bump

>>16477328
You claim to be making a new system, but what here is new? It is just the worst blend of early socialist parties, corporatism, and Xi Jinping' China. It is laughable that you think any of those measures would prevent corruption rather than exacerbate it. Social Credit Systems and Mass Surveillance do not float in the abstract, but are themselves managed and operated by someone—Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Bureaucrats have even managed to line their pockets in countries with no currency, never mind limits on bank accounts.
I see i wasn't wrong when i said you have the spirit of an economist and the mindset of an autist. Efficiency is hypothetical, not categorical. Efficiency for efficiencies sake is pointless. Your understanding of morality is worse even than the most base utilitarians, and presumes the very thing that it dismisses. It's no surprise that someone who shows such distaste for 'whimsical philosophical discussions' would resort to lex talionis, the justice of primitives and barbarians. Legitimacy through fear is the most fragile form of legitimacy, for it lasts only until your back is turned. It exists only in reference to external sanction. When one knows what is right and acts accordingly, guided only by internal sanction—that is a legitimacy whose strength is unparalleled. But it is a legitimacy that can only be reached through freedom, moral education, and a basic respect for human dignity. None of which would exist under your system.
When appeals to reason have been exhasuted, there will always be recourse to the ultima ratio; those who only respect force will always have to be dealt with by force. You void your rights when you act in such a way as to jeopardize everyone else's. There is nothing authoritarian in preventing the destruction of freedom—all republics have a proud history of tyrannicide.
>specialists without spirit, sensualists without heart; this nullity imagines that it has attained a level of civilization never before achieved.

>>16479967
I knew one guy who did, but he read anything that was handed to him by anyone.

>>16473672
Do protests genuinely accomplish anything? I don't really believe it. Seems like a net negative if power isn't already on your side.

>>16480891
Power doesn't need to be on your side, It just needs to be receptive to popular representation. For example, protests stopped the August coup, not because the perpetrators were on their side, but because they were receptive to the will of the people.

>>16480645
Can you stop being an avatarfag?

>>16473672
UNBASED AND UNMATERIALISTIC THINKING. ALL YOU REACTIONARIES ARE PAPER TIGERS. LONG LIVE THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY!

>>16480002
>>16481281
This, just drop by your local Confucius Institute OP, I'm sure they'll help.

>>16480645
>>16477328
you are both massive pseuds who know and have read nothing, please stop posting

>>16477328
>Morality lies in material surplus
Holy shit, don't tell me this is what materialists actually believe

>>16481726
Well, a lack of material need, coupled with purpose and discipline creates the ideal humans for sure

>>16475646
I already do this, how can I leverage it?

>>16473672
>>16478286
>I'm starting a club on my campus...
>Actually, I’m trying to write it anonymously since I don’t want it to impact my work life
huh?

>>16479513
Why are you prosecuting someone for torturing an animal?

>>16473672
Do you have a reading list on technocracy?

>>16473685
>>16473861
>>16474686
>>16474736
>>16475501
>>16477235
>>16478539

>>16473672
>I’m wondering how to spread it around.
With a poker in the fireplace

>>16483578
There’s a couple books on the nature of technocracy, but the concept itself is pretty simple and argues that workers and industries should function more autonomously, with the decision making being done largely by the workers.

If I was you, and you were interested in technocracy in a socialist setting, you should look up Allende’s cybernetics program, as well as the USSR’s own cybernetics program. Allende was deposed of before his program could be implemented and the USSR’s communist party saw cybernetics and worker decision-making as a threat to the party’s power, so they cancelled the program, but the philosophy and proposed structure of cybernetics goes hand in hand with technocracy.

>>16484466
>workers and industries should function more autonomously, with the decision making being done largely by the workers.
so like a faggier version of syndicalism?

>>16473672
>technocratic
cringe
>totalitarian
cringe
>socialist
depends on type/implementation but possibly based

>the ACTUAL based society
>Bohemian City-State Confederation

>>16484472
Well, syndicalism is fine in its own ways and I do believe in unions, being a member of two myself. I’m not a fan of the Marxism or peaceful transitions that Syndicalism endorses however

>>16484663
>syndicalism
>peaceful transition
nigga literally wrote the book on using violence as a means
sorel can be considered a proto-fascist if anything

>>16484466
This is peak performance. This phenotype is what every literate Western man should strive to secure as a source of progeny.

>>16473672
Can I join?

>>16473672
So you mixed Dugin with Moldbug? Sounds like meme-tier bullshit. pic is me "spreading" your ideas where they belong.