/lit/ - Literature

Agnosticism is a lack of belief, irreligiousness is a lack of belief, atheism is a belief

>>16473534
It's just adulthood. 2000 years of repetition didn't make a premise more valid than it ever was.

>atheism is just worshipping science

>>16473534
Bump

>>16473545
>It's just adulthood.

>>16473545
>It's just adulthood. 2000 years of repetition didn't make a premise more valid than it ever was.

>>16473534
Religion is the eternal cope. The ancients went through their own existential torment, even worse than we dont have to worry about fucking polio.

>>16473622
>>16473624
Christcels

>>16473666
Based

>>16473667
That webm is based as hell though, and this is coming from an atheist
Love seeing that straight up recoil
Based trad chads.

>>16473718
looks kinda like acting tho...

>>16473534
A: without
Theos: God
I don't believe it, simple as.

>>16473722
Could be but at the same time i wouldn't necessarily put it past a university. I go to the university of Windsor and trust me i see retards like those two all the time. I wish we had groups of catholic larpers scaring them.

>>16473749
It’s a belief though. Cope

>>16473541
I have never seen a post more wrong in my entire time on 4chan.

>>16473547
Putting the funny man next to the statement doesn't make it any less true you mental defective

>>16473534
>Abstinence is a sex position

>>16473541
Lol you are OP’s picture.

>>16473749
>I don't believe it, simple as.
So therefore you believe God doesn’t exist, yes?

>>16473795
that’s not analogous

>>16473757
I'm not the one who imagined God and his existence. Someone came and told me "just believe in Him" and I didn't believe in Him. Now because of this I believe in something else? I don't think so.

>>16473795
>abstinence is the best sex position

>>16473833
>Now because of this I believe in something else?
Yes, you do, you believe that God doesn’t exist

>>16473822
Oh you're right, sorry
>Abstinence is not a sex position, it's the lack of a sex position.

>>16473534
is non-religious spiritualism the endgoal? acknowledging the spiritual elements of life without tying yourself to some 2000 year old doctrine

>>16473844
Not at all because this person didn't prove anything he just told me believe

>>16473718
>recoil
they're not recoiling though, they are respectfully standing aside while others practice their beliefs, while silently mocking them
the "chad" thing to do would be to just plough on through them. i mean, they're christians, they're supposed to forgive people

>>16473844
atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods
everything else is down to the individual atheist. unlike a religion there is no set of prescribed beliefs for atheists.
if a person wants to rant and rave about there being no god, that is something an atheist can do
if a person wants to just peacefully get on with their life and not follow any religion, without any stupid fucking religitard sticking their nose in where it's not wanted, that is also something an atheist can do, although the shithead godbotherers of the world do go out of their way to make it difficult.

>>16473833
So it’s a belief.

>>16473833
>Someone came and told me "just believe in Him" and I didn't believe in Him.
Not how atheism works retard. An atheist is so bereft of any inner exploration that it's painful. Like talking to a totally non self-aware entity.
All psychological research on child theism and atheism points towards it being an emotional response, because a natural disposition of a child is that of belief.
Disbelief is an active choice with a substitute of axioms for another axiom. Therefore atheism is a belief no matter what you think it is.

it's a belief like all other since we lack proof either way. for some reason atheists disappropriately wear their belief as attire, comparable to pastel satanists.

>>16474087
huh?

>Putting the funny man next to the statement doesn't make it any less true you mental defective

>You're just as a dogmatic as me if you ignore Rabbi Yeshua ben Yoseph's dogmas
"No"

>>16474087
>All psychological research on child theism and atheism points towards it being an emotional response,
[citation needed]
>because a natural disposition of a child is that of belief.
yes, children are credulous and believe all kinds of weird shit.
i saw a study along the lines of, children were shown videos of bears scratching themselves against a particularly conveniently-shaped rock, and when questioned afterwards the children were much more likely to believe that the rock had been put there specifically for the bears to scratch against it, rather that it just being a natural formation that the bears happened to like.
this is why we don't necessarily take the beliefs of children seriously, and why you are just talking bollocks.

>>16474087
What the fuck are you even saying?. As a kid no one told me about God. When someone told me about God I didn't believe in it that's it, so I'm not sure what are you even trying to say.

>>16474058
No it's not.

>>16473547
This isn’t true because if atheists worshipped science then they would universally be ethnobationalists irrespective of the race of the atheist they would be interested only in the good of their own.
atheists usually worship pleasure, not science.

>>16474146
i went to a faith school. as a kid a lot of grown ups told me a lot of stuff about god. stories from the bible were taught as literal truth. i didn't believe it either.

>>16474000
So do you?
>>16474055
>atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods
no it isn’t, it’s literally impossible to “lack belief” when it comes God. You either believe God exist, or you believe God doesn’t exist.

>>16474055
It's a belief there are no gods. You can't think in the negative, you always assert. A conclusion is always a set of hypotheses or assumptions. It's impossible to get around that.
It becomes interesting analyzing the assumptions because it brings you to more conclusions.
If assumptions a and b deduce c, assuming a and b aren't = to c, that is assuming they're not circular, then you have a d which is also concluded by a and b. Even more interesting is analyzing the assumptions a and b as a conclusion of prior assumptions, say x, y, z. So you have x, y, z deducing a, b which deduces c, d. Granted those are just partial variables. If we accept that the assumptions are broad enough, at least past a circular argument, then they conclude many things.

>>16475230
The thing is, I don't have to prove anything because I'm not claiming anything. As I said before: I'm not the one who imagined God and his existence. Someone came and told me "just believe in Him" and I didn't believe in Him that's pretty much it, I don't get why you guys trip so hard about something so simple.

>>16473777
Why is it wrong?

>>16475315
I’m not asking you to *prove* anything, I’m just asking what you believe. Do you believe God doesn’t exist?

>>16475315
If you don't have an opinion and are thus saying nothing then you can't speak of it.

lads you're supposed to go through the atheist phase when you're 15, you shouldn't post on a 18+ site

>>16475356
Then again, you’re supposed to go through your theist phase when you’re about 10, that doesn’t stop the LARPers on here to extend that indefinitely

>>16475417
>I don't believe in God
>why's that?
>you can't ask for that, just take my word. I can't prove my statement or disprove God
We know where the 10 year old arguments lie

Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of a god.
Theism is the lack of belief in the absence of a god

>>16475449
Atheists itt on sui watch

Atheism is a belief but the burden of proof is still on the theist

Reminder it's perfectly possible to be atheist and have mystical experiences, Nietszche, Russell and even Dawkins have had them. Sometimes like with ex-Catholic Pierre Hadot, scholar of Neoplatonism, these experiences can even reveal that God does not exist.

>>16475478
For what? If you say God doesn't exist then it's on you to develop a proper idea of God then show how it isn't in reality

>>16475449

Yes as it turns out everything that exists can indeed be described by what it is not
So I suppose the question is can you say the same of god?

/lit/ isn't a literature board it's a lack of literature board

>>16475545
Not him but what do you mean?
Inverse, converse and contrapositive are all true if the conception is accepted. It doesn't refer to the semantics of whether they actually are real but the relationship works

There's no escape from religion unless you aren't sane or are dead, I firmly believe everyone has a god, be it money, sex or some meme philosophy you saw on /lit/, if you have no God then what stops you from killing yourself? It's probably something and that is your god.

>>16475550
maybe you just suck at bringing out a conversation

>>16475553
I never understood this? Why is suicide logical in the absence of God?
There is no compelling reason for suicide in this case.

>>16475544
The party bringing the claim has the burden of proof. I had no conception of god until someone claimed god existed. I heard their evidence and it wasn’t sufficient. I now don’t believe in god.

>>16475557
I think he just means God as in a priority in life or a metaphysics and if your worldview is fallacious, or stolen from you, say race and Hitler, then you kill yourself.

>>16475557
I don't think you understand what I meant, most people have a grand objective in life, maybe you want to start a family or just pay your mother's surgery that is what gets you out of bed in the morning so that would be your god.

>>16475564
That's not how reality works. Whether you're in a debate or not, reality is fundamental to the users and should be used primary to human inertia.
This being said, in an aristotelian sense, the debate is brought up by whoever started it in the communication otherwise it becomes a therapy session. Not necessarily bad but certainly not aristotelian.

>>16475573
Can you use another term? God is generally specific but I understand what you mean, not him though.

>>16475557

Think about it anon
Without religion and god there is no punishment for suicide
If there is no punishment for suicide what is to stop people who have nothing to lose from doing as many bad things as they want then simply committing suicide thus leaving potentially great destruction with no equivalent punishment it's a gross imbalance by any measure
This is why religion and really any system based around morality is always so obsessed with punishment in general because without it it leaves this massive loophole that causes any system of morality to completely break down
It's not a matter of making sense it's a matter of necessity

>be me
>enter religious thread on 4chan
>laugh at all the insecure christcucks
>laugh at them when the only response they have to others is the "smelly dude covered in shit holds an opinion, so therefor its invalid" fallacy
>laugh at them trying to apply Christian and religious logic to non Christians and non religious people
>laugh at them when they say that suicide somehow makes more sense when you dont believe in a god and/or a afterlife
>loving every laugh
>leave thread

>>16475606
Cope

>>16475602
You talk like only some people did this when this is basis for human society, religion is how people connect with each other, so if you like books and I do too then it could be defined as religion, something that binds society together.

>>16475602
Are you suggesting everyone would kill themselves if they didn't believe they would be punished for it?

>>16475574
Yes and it was the theists who started the debate in the communication.

>>16475613
No he's saying for a society to exist there must be preservation of life and coexistence or else there would be no society at all.

>>16473534
>>16473541
kek yourself before you wreck yourself, dumb arse

>>16475627
Go see a shrink. Many subjects never broach the topic of religion. If your issue is with religion entierly then you have to unify all religions into a coherent argument then prove that argument isn't true but the subject of all religion is alien to most ppl across time. So it'd be you asserting something. If you limit it to the Christian God then that's you setting limits and as it would be weird to give your whole life story in the case of a conversation, it's certainly impossible, you have to contend with the rules of a conversation.
I would advocate for the former while keeping the rules of the conversation in mind.

>>16473694
Pic related is literally true, read Spengler

>>16473534
>non belief=belief
kek

>>16473795
Position on sex, yes

>>16475628
So for society to exist suicide must be punished metaphysically?
I am unconvinced. There are cosmological frameworks wherein suicide is not so stigmatized and those subscribing societies are fine.
I suppose your argument is that one needs religion to be moral, but I don't believe that's the case. You can base a morality of cooperation solely on the linguistic necessity of cooperation, among other things, but that isn't the focus of the current train of posts.

>>16475573
>most people have a grand objective in life
no they don't anon
most people just bounce from one thing to another and just do their best to get along
sure people have "dreams" but they're too busy dealing with the shit of everyday life to follow them all the time
nice tits though

>>16475652
I am not talking about suicide neither about "you need religion to be moral", I am talking about life in general, early people created a concept of afterlife so society could advance, imagine you were a early caveman and one of your sons starts thinking about suicide? I am not talking about punishment but rather of the notion of a afterlife. I can understand a modern society not believing in afterlife after so much has been built, but on an early level, religion is probably the only thing that can join people together.

>>16475638
I don’t have to prove that argument isn’t true. They would have proved it for me by supplying insufficient evidence.

>>16475665
>busy dealing with the shit of everyday life to follow them all the time
But does that stop them from following them? Your father wants to buy a car and he works every day but stops at the weekend to have fun with his friends in the bar, that doesn't convince him to stop buying that car.

>>16475679
We are talking about different things.
We have very little clues as to what early man believe. Who knows what their stance was on suicide.

>>16475690
>Who knows what their stance was on suicide
They would be obviously against it, it's literally one more working pair of hands in their community that helps get meat on the table, is there are any reason they would encourage the suicide of another member of their circle?

>>16475684
Then you can't deny it and you shouldn't be talking about it. You sound like a kid

>>16475707
There's a difference between prohibition and indifference.
For instance, religion proscribing a certain way to commit suicide to ensure a positive afterlife. Suicide with one's mind wholly focusing on the Amida Buddha is tolerated in Jodo shinshu buddhism to give a concrete example.
Or the Christian suicide recorded by Yeats in (I believe) Celtic Twilight.

>>16473534
Are theists really in the business of defining other people's beliefs for them now? Bad form, anon

>>16475724
No i can deny it. Just the evidence for it’s existence needs to be brought first. Then each claim would be denied after. But only after. Burden of proof.

>>16475553
If you actually believe that then you are pathological. Have you no loved ones? No treasured memories? Dreams or hopes for the future? Is it all built on an arbitrary religious system that could have been radically different had you been born in a different part of the world? Do you cling so fiercely to it like a child clings to a safety blanket? Come on now, anon

>>16475573
>using the word "God" for a personal goal someone is trying to achieve
why on earth do you feel that word applies at all?

>>16475731
I am not talking about prohibition, like I said people would need to find a way to make people behave accordingly so a father would probably try to convince his son of rewards in afterlife if he pleased the community, there's no punishment in it, also all the religions you listed are late religions and the pratices were done mostly by ascetics, take a look at the sumerians and the greeks, all early civilizations had a notion of a afterlife, things that would please or displease the gods, and the things that pleased the gods were generally things that benefit the community as a whole.

Have you noticed how all the contrarian drones who claim to be theists are always LARPing as Christian extremists and never try to look further than abrahamic theology? A decade ago these losers would've been militant atheists guaranteed.

Is this entire thread just an eternal back and forth of posting each other's opinions with sillee wojacks next to it?
is everyone retarded? is everyone in fact just coping?

>>16475752
Read >>16475573

>>16475752
I am just putting forward as a ideal, correct term would be belief, but who can really define what god is? My post is on relation to op's I simply believe that humans can't lack belief, and that everyone believes in something.

>>16475686
buying a car is not a "grand objective" anon
unless it's some dream sports car that gives you the incentive to run a business or something, or renovating a vintage classic because of some personal connection with it- both of which are the dreams of a tiny minority- buying a car hardly registers with most people, it's just something you do.

>>16475733
yes, they never shut the fuck up about it

>>16475761
Always Be Coping anon

>>16475754
Again you are just supposing a scenario at what early man must have done. I am saying to you I don't want to talk about that because we don't know what they must have done.
The Greeks and Romans had the concept of suicide, and sometimes romanticized it: like in Antigone, where she commits suicide to uphold honor towards her family in spite of an unjust law.
In this case suicide is maintaining society rather than bringing it apart.

>>16475737
In an aristotelian sense it would be who made the claim. In a platonic sense there's not really a turn you both find axioms you agree with and work through them to come to a conclusion. Tbh I have no idea if what you're saying even makes sense

>>16475771
Well if you are rich then it would hardly register, but for a poor guy it would be like a new world, people have different dreams, I think you interpret "grand objective" as something otherworldly or maybe like conquering half of the world like Alexander the Great, my dad loves collecting comic books and it's definitely something he plans and not "just do".

>>16475784
Fair

>>16475781
The Greeks literally had cities man I am talking about cavemen, a time where human population was scarce and every head counts towards surving, do you think they would people let the kill themselves because of a mood swing instead of making up some bullshit why he shouldn't kill himself so they could get more meat? Do you think greek pagans would go around telling the average peasent to kill themselves because the gods would like it? What you mentioned was a romanticized story for a specific situation, do you think peasants would take it seriously and start killing themselves over it?

>>16475806
Why did you bring up the greeks then, if you don't want me to talk about the greeks?
What I am saying is that you are just imagining what early people must have been like based on our modern day perception that suicide is bad in religion. That is not always the case, in both current and past religions. It's best not to talk about what early man 'must' have believed, because we don't really know what they believed.
This isn't even the topic I wanted to talk about, which is why people think suicide is inevitable in the absence of religion which I do not understand.

>>16473534
>Atheism is dumb because it's still an expression of belief
>May as well just believe a bunch of ancient slabs written by cavemen

Atheists are cringe but that doesn't make them factually incorrect

2000s: teenage edgelords flock to militant atheism
2010s: teenage edgelords flock to theist neoconservatism

The eternal contrarians

>>16475761
This is the way arguing works now. You post insulting edits of stale memes back and forth until one side gets tired of it and does something else. Nobody examines the arguments of the other side critically, or even considers the content of the arguments at all, just the presentation.
It only gets worse from here. After all, the internet is SRS BSNS now, isn't it?

>>16475761
Pretty much, people are highly opinionated but don't understand what they are saying, so they just spam wojacks, and try to make opposition look stupid and laughable. Theism vs atheism threads are almost always a broken record though. Both sides say the same shit in every thread, many times not even understanding what they argue for.

>>16475818
I never said suicide is bad in religion, I am talking about a concept of a Afterlife to stop then from killing themselves, a promise of life after if they act according to the laws of their people, it's about life, and the systems early people created to make society flourish, with religion being probably one of the first ones, I am not saying you need religion to be moral, but that it was needed in earlier times.

>>16475765
>I simply believe that humans can't lack belief
The argument from personal incredulity is irrelevant, not to mention that almost all religions are mutually exclusive anyway, meaning you "lack belief" in all but the one you've chosen

>>16475835
>based and repilled
>soijak.jpg
>hello BASED department?
>noooo the ___erinos!!
>cope cringe dilate seethe
>discord tranny
>zoomer
>muscular man with large chin.jpg
>why yes I support my own opinions how could you tell?
>twitter screencap.jpg

>>16475844
I am not talking about religion, I am talking about belief, humans literally can't lack belief, do you believe you can breath? Do you believe the sky is blue? That you can read? There you go you believe in something.