/lit/ - Literature

>>16426211
>talk to Persians
>everyone of them has read their poets

>>16426211
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe0_BKkfg6g

behold the vulgar masses

>>16426211
>talk to Germans
>everyone has read Goethe and Kafka at least, for school

>>16426211
are there a lot of twinks in greece?

>>16426211
I don’t know about greeks, but all that stuff is required reading in italy still.

>>16426223
That's only true for older generations. Younger generations only care about Instagram posts.
t. lives around a lot of Persians.

>>16426229
I was told ancient Greek is almost a completely different language but I have no idea whether it's as different as Latin and modern romance languages.
>>16426246
>required to read,
No, we generally read just summaries and some chapters.

>>16426248
it's different in Iran from what i've heard
t. sovietist

>>16426237
Yeah I am one (from Great Greece).

Greek here αμα

>>16426288
In Iran they are forced to read and interpret poetry in school. A large section of their university entrance exam is also dedicated to literature with rather obscure questions.
t. Iranian

>>16426317
incredibly based, every country should do this

Not even the ancients knew their own authors. Most were peasants who could barely read. And what you've described is the same in every country.

How many Englishmen have read Milton? Have all Italians read Dante? Are all Germans familiar with the works of Goethe? Is every French acquainted with Proust?

Most people don't even fucking read and this has been the same throughout history.

>Seething that you do not have friends called Odysseas, Athanathios, Illias
and they very well know Homer and such, they have to study ancient greek in school.

>>16426255
>No, we generally read just summaries and some chapters.

yeah... maybe in your shit school.

Modern Greeks have almost ZERO genetic similarities to the Greek philosophers. Modern Greeks are just Turks.

>>16426333
There are a lot of Brazilians with meme names like Socrates, Lenin or Newton. Nothing to seethe at.

>>16426331
>Are all Germans familiar with the works of Goethe?
every german who went to Gymnasium is at least

>>16426341
>Nothing to seethe at.
there is a clear difference between the descendants of the greek heroes named such and a bunch of mulattos calling their children Hitler, and such

>>16426331
>How many Englishmen have read Milton? Have all Italians read Dante? Are all Germans familiar with the works of Goethe? Is every French acquainted with Proust?
I mean, I have, but are not all of those part of the study curriculum in school (aside from proust)?
OP only mentioned knowing about the classics, not having actually read them thoroughly

>>16426255
stronzate. magari li nel sud italia i professori fanno un po' quel cazzo che gli pare

>>16426331
>>16426351
Italians read Dante in the forth and fifth years of highschool

>>16426339
Why would you even force people to spend time to read stuff in schools instead of letting them read them on their own or at least give them multiple works to choose from? Schools pressing young people to read are one of the chief reasons why most people are at variance with literature in this shit hole.

>>16426345
Faust isnt mandatory reading anymore at least in Northrhine-Westphalia. Only lecture mandatory is Nathan the Jew.
and yes, I know, NRW is a shithole.
t. gymnasium literature teacher

Greek schools teach the greeks from elementary school. First it starts with Mythology and later on middle school it continues with Odyssey, Iliad etc. On highschool (depending on the curriculum direction you choose) there's heavy study and translation of ancient texts and ancient greek grammar.
Ofcourse like with every school subject you forget it the moment you set foot out of school

>>16426211
It's not just their history or culture, even they don't have enough information about other countries in region or different areas.
Like their knowledge in history and politics is like elementary level.

>>16426374
completely unrelated answer. Italians still study a lot of Italian authors

>>16426400
maybe that's just older people? i'm a bit ashamed of saying this but both my parents (60s) are incredibly ignorant people. they barely speak their mother tongue correctly (italian)

>>16426401
>Italians still study a lot of Italian authors
Do they study also less known authors like Angelo Poliziano or Giovanni Pontano?

>>16426248
Everyone in Iran know who ferdowsi Is.

>>16426389
>t. gymnasium literature teacher
oof
the entire german school system's reputation being carried by the southern states and Hamburg.
>please do everything in your power to avoid reading ww2 propaganda literature in class when instead you could be reading some actually enlightening literature that isn't just moral preaching, as I had to endure too frequently.

>>16426345
>>16426351
>>16426367
Yes and Shakespeare is part of the school curriculum here, but the level of reading you do in compulsory education is too low to be be taken seriously.

>>16426255
I talked to a Greek once about this. Apparently the roots of the words are totally legible, albeit with thousands of years of change (I know that "to beat" now means "to educate" and "courage" now means "stupidity"). However, the grammar is totally illegible, to the point where it's fair to call it a different language. So, I suppose it's like a more intense version of a modern Anglo reading an Old English text that only uses Old English words that have descendants in Modern English.

>>16426416
I feel like Iranians take the whole "autistic nationalism" thing really fucking seriously.

>>16426211
Yes anon Savitri Devi realized this a long time ago and that is why she rejected her Greek nationality. At every turn she was met by anti-hellens who rejected the ancient teachings. The Hellenics were wiped out by Christians, Muslims and Jews. Abraham and his filthy ideology completely destroyed Greece.

>>16426454
>autistic nationalism
Nationalism is pretty strong in Iran, its a good thing though much better than globalism which is poison.

>>16426454
>I feel like Iranians take the whole "autistic nationalism" thing really fucking seriously.
More power to them if they do. That would mean not every country has yet been overtaken by the tribe.

>>16426466
Literally this. Modern Greeks are brainwashed into thinking Justinian was the greatest living man on earth next to Jesus, but anyone reading Procopius will realize Justinian was one of the most idiotic and incompetent leaders of ancient times.

>>16426474
basado

>>16426233
Yes, but nobody expects us to read Altmittelhochdeutsch. The oldest I read in school was Parzival.
Related question, how similar is ancient greek to modern?

>>16426474
>>16426477
Oh, no, I fully support it, but it just seems that there's a higher proportion of Iranians who are really fucking autistic about this kind of thing than other races. Maybe it's just an Extremely Online Diaspora thing, but every Iranian I've ever seen has been a turbosperg.

>>16426441
again, don't project your horrible school standards on others. When i was in highschool my teachers were all very strict when teaching Dante or Boccaccio or Petrarca.
and in the last years even more with 19th and 20th century authors

>>16426441
shit i'm not even english and i spent too much time studying Chaucer and Shakespeare

FUCK DAFFODILS

>>16426487
>Procopius
What should I have read to appreciate/understand his anecdota?

>>16426526
>When i was in highschool my teachers were all very strict when teaching Dante or Boccaccio or Petrarca.
The most you'll get out of these teachers is the Decameron and in rare cases Dante's Vita Nova. There are just so many works written by Boccaccio they'll never be able to cover half of them.

>>16426538
>What should I have read to appreciate/understand his anecdota?
the slightest knowledge of what cuckoldry involves is fine

>>16426516
Actually because of what regime been doing in past 41 years people are turning against religion and becoming super nationalist like they literally refer to themselves as Aryans.
Its good for Iran

>>16426526
Se pensi che quello che hai imparato in secondaria sia di un livello alto sei proprio un pleb.

>>16426512
Going off of this vid >>16426229
It looks like they can handle Koine Greek but fall apart when it comes to Platon and Homeros. I suppose its the grammar and vocab that trips them up.

>>16426293
:)

>>16426255
>I was told ancient Greek is almost a completely different language but I have no idea whether it's as different as Latin and modern romance languages.
It depends on how old it is, if it was written before the hellenistic period it is unintelligible if you know modern Greek only. If it is more modern you will probably understand at least some of it.

>>16426211
You think the average Greek in Antiquity could hold an interesting discussion on Homeric poesis? The majority of people were never into nerdy shit and never will be.

>>16426211
Ethnic Greeks no longer inhabit Greece.

>>16426340
Wrong

>>16427348
Modern Greeks are still very similar with Myceneans and Minoans genetically

>>16426211
You could say the same for every country. Hindu Nationalists lament that their people don't know shit about the vedas. Modern English people think King Arthur was a blond anime. Most people don't even know anything about WW2 perhaps the most oversaturated meme history has to offer. Leveling this accusation at Greeks specifically is unfair

>NOOOO WHY DO SOCIALLY COMPETENT SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIVE THEIR LIVES WITHIN THE ONLY CONTEXT THAT IT EXISTS, THE PRESENT
>YOU SHOULD BE AN INCEL FREAK LIKE ME AND READ "ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE" SO YOU CAN FEEL SUPERIOR TO "NORMIES" IN ORDER TO COPE WITH YOUR COMPLETE AND UTTER FAILURE TO ADAPT TO LIFE

>>16427340
>The majority of people were never into nerdy shit
Tell me how I know that you belong to the mob.

>>16427406
>pleb cope
You'll always be looked down upon, seethe harder

>>16427409
I am not saying that nerdy shit is bad, just that normies don't care about it
Also you come off as a pretentious douchebag

>>16427454
>NOOOOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MY SUPERIOR INTELLECT IS WHY I'M AN INCEL FREAK WHO SITS IN HIS ROOM DEBATING STRANGERS ONLINE ABOUT THE SEMANTICS

>>16427409
he's literally agreeing with you but your angry virgin mind automatically reacts defensively

comedy gold

>>16427465
>>NOOOOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MY SUPERIOR INTELLECT
And you never will plebe

>>16427455
>pretentious douchebag
merci beaucoup

>>16426454
>I talked to a Greek once about this. Apparently the roots of the words are totally legible, albeit with thousands of years of change (I know that "to beat" now means "to educate" and "courage" now means "stupidity"). However, the grammar is totally illegible, to the point where it's fair to call it a different language.
Same with Italian and (classical) Latin. Though I've seen some examples of medieval Latin which are much easier to read and parse, and it sounds more like a dialect than a different language.

It's quite likely that classical authors are harder to read just because they preferred erudite words and a byzantine sentence structure (most of the sources that survived were written by aristocrats, after all, and you can go nuts with word order thanks to cases), while everyday speech, especially between commoners, would've been much simpler to understand.

As for medieval authors, I'm not sure whether the language is simpler because they were deliberately using a plain style, while they could've written in the classical style, had they wanted to, or because vulgar (non-Latin) dialects had evolved to the point where authors were starting to vulgarize Latin too. Even as far back as the 10th century you could see something halfway between Italian and Latin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placiti_Cassinesi

By the 13th-14th century, you already have what's pretty much Italian: https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Convivio/Trattato_primo
Of course, contemporary readers may struggle a bit, since the sentence structure and word choice may not always be plain and obvious (after all, Dante was a poet), but I think it's safe to assume that everyday language from 700 years ago would be almost completely intelligible to even a zoomer today.

What about Greekbros? How far back can you go in the history of your language, while still maintaining high intelligibility?

>>16427348
Cope. The same Greeks that composed the Illiad and Odyssey were wearing animal pelts and living in huts only 600 or so years before. Civilisation is dependent on culture not race.

>>16427498
>Civilisation is dependent on culture not race.
Immense cope

>>16426416
And everyone Angloid knows who Shakespeare is. Doesn't mean shit.

>>16426416
Does anyone know a good English translation of the Shahnameh?

>>16427534
>Like anything that is absolutely beautiful, poetry forces admiration; but this admiration shall be far off, vague, stupid, since it comes from the crowd. Thanks to this general sensation, an unheard of idea shall germinate within their minds: it shall be necessary to teach it in colleges, and irresistibly, like anything that is taught to the many; poetry shall be lowered to the rank of a science. It shall be explained to all equally.

>Ask any Englishman if he knows Shakespeare or any Frenchman if he knows Hugo. They will say yes but they have only read them once, that is to say haven't read them at all. Only artists alone reread them so as to elevate themselves to their heights.

>>16427486
it's okay i still love you even if you are a pretentious cunt

>>16427653
i love you too ;3

>>16427734
based duckduckgo user. fuck google

>>16426211
Ancient Greeks have fuck all to do with contemporary Greeks you absolute retard

>>16426255
It's not, same logic exists, some words have slightly changed meanings but they aren't that far away from the original. Puristic form of Greek is the middle ground between Demotic modern and ancient greek

>>16426623
zitto autista

>>16427574
Google it or you can buy the book online.
Try YouTube as well.

>>16426317
Based and intellectual pilled

>>16428272
Where did you find this ?
90% of it is true.

>>16428412
A place where people make political compasses. It starts with an R and shall not be named (I did some edits to image to make it looks nicer)

>>16428444
The arteshi one is true and funny.

>>16428486
It was made originally by a native Iranian so it wouldn't surprise me that much of it is accurate

>>16428501
Native Iranian that is somehow pro-regime i guess.

>>16428534
I wouldn't say so necessarily. There is much in there that is anti regime, such are the many ones that openly atheistic, as well as the ruthlessness of the Basiji and Hardliner Shia for example

>>16426211
In that Alain de Botton tv series about philosophers he goes to the place where Epicurus' Garden was supposed to be and nowadays it's a fucking parking lot. Contemporary Greeks don't deserve the Elgin Marbles back unless they fully reclaim their intellectual heritage first.

>>16428272
I don't get much of this but I kekd
Thanks for the post

>>16426211
OP kys

>>16428263
I'm sure I could find a translation easily, I was wondering if anyone else has read a translation that they liked.

>>16426331
>How many Englishmen have read Milton?
I don’t know about Milton but Shakespeare is compulsory studying for every single year of English Literature from the age of 14 to 18 (you can choose to drop English lit at 16/17 tho)

>>16426331
>How many Englishmen have read Milton?
Most who have been educated in the better schools
>Have all Italians read Dante?
Yes. In fact there are very successful TV shows with readings of Dante (a recent one by Roberto Benigni of all people)
>Are all Germans familiar with the works of Goethe?
Werther and the basics of the Faust
>Is every French acquainted with Proust?
No but they're usually familiar with French literature (Balzac, Flaubert, Stendhal, Victor Hugo)

>>16426211
Γιατί ρε λογαριασμό θα σε δώσουμε;

>>16429068
No, you can't have sex with boys

>>16428572
Which part you didn't understand ?!

>>16428556
Btw, what is deal with azeris fully supporting the government ?!

>>16426340
This, xoomies on this board think of themselves as smart yet they don't even know basic facts.

>>16426487
Yes then no. Justinian was decent but his ambition blinded him. He tried to take back too much.

>>16426466
Based Devi anon
>>16427498
Found the christcuck

>>16426340
>>16429581
You're both attempting to oversimplify it. Dumb move

>>16429663
It's a matter of fact.

>>16427507
>>16429616
How like a pagan, empty retorts and a clinging to mere blood and soil. Not to say these things are unimportant, but your hierarchies are topsy turvy. You're just a glorified atheist if you put dirt and fluid over the spiritual, or believe dirt begets spirituality. If all humans come from the same root, then we all share a common thread, a common spirituality, so all religions are legitimate

>>16427368
Menelaus had red hair, Odysseus was blond, Achilles was blond, etc. Blonds and red-heads are non-existent in modern Greece, they have been mongrelized

>>16426211
Ancient greeks were a totally difference race.

>>16428272
This is the funniest shit I've seen. That tabrizi poet looking like Kaz Miller lmao

>>16430000
>extremely low res picture of mixed greeks in their 80's

ok, can you post modern young greeks? menelaus had blonde hair, btw.

I found your picture from "greeks today", these greek actors seem to have mix of blondes and a red-head (probably fake)

https://www.wbur.org/npr/267263303/greeks-find-hope-in-the-theater-of-nostalgia

>>16428272
This shit is hilarious, especially the Azeris
>t. Turk

Greece is the country where they filmed Mamma Mia 2, right?

>>16428272
>the farmer
>extremely religious but grows weed and smokes it
comfy

>>16430301
What's the deal with you guys and the kurds lmao. I always find it funny since half of my family is basically turk and half kurd.

>>16429557
I'd assume it's because they're pretty religious and Shia

>>16426255
>>16426211
lol, we literally read Homer and the playwrites in American middle and high school. kinda embarrassing desu.
(though for some weird reason my school focused way more on the Odyssey)

>>16426233
>Talk to Germans
>They start randomly apologizing for the holocaust and demanding open borders for all countries in the EU

>>16426466
I miss her bros

>>16430321
That was Croatia

>>16426340
>>16429663
>>16429581
>>16427368

>>16426419

>oof the entire german school system's reputation being carried by the southern states and Hamburg.

Saint has probably overtaken them all in the last decade.

>>16428272
Where does the mut'ah coomer fit into all this

>>16426211
modern greeks are turks and transitory migrants, maybe like 10% of their DNA is Greek at most

>>16430889
lol

Gayreece is a fake country propped up by brits 200 years ago to larp as a Disney land