/lit/ - Literature

>>16421589
Sounds like he just got triggered by your political position. What is it about your novel he was responding to? Is it overtly fascistic?

>>16421589
well was he right?

Arts are overrated
A man of vision leads

>>16421589
How good of a writer could he be if he's teaching in fucking Iowa?

>>16421589
he literally described most of crime and punishment
>avenging your childhood
>mouthpieces
>solipsism
the artist understands nothing of the nature of any art but his own. you went to him and asked him 'how much is my art like your own'
in fact the more negative the better, because it means your not imitating him
everyone who got positive feedback just copied his writing style and worldview and he responds as such since he wants to confirm his validity.
hes a hack and i know that because no one whos not a wears a bowtie fuck this guy

>>16421623
This. If you really feel that way, seek professional help. If not, fuck him.

>>16421653
Pleb, Iowa has the best creative writing program in the world. Educate yourself.

>>16421589
>pursuing a creative writing MFA at Iowa
Holy state college larp

>"You write like you're avenging your childhood on the world."
Only a pseud would take this as an insult. Knowing the lay of the land of contemporary American fiction, especially the soil of MFA culture, your teacher is absolutely irrelevant and is peddling word magic for literal thousands of your dollars. They should be executed in public.

>>16421661
>Iowa has the best creative writing program in the world.
Buddy, Mark McGurl has written extensively about how this is a literal pyramid scheme. Flannery O' Connor is the only thing of value to have passed through that program.

>>16421589
I'd just ignore him if you really enjoy writing.

>>16421642
a man of vision "leads" when he fails at Arts.
kek.

>>16421589
>imagine giving a shit about what some angry, seething sperg thinks about your writing
Couldn't be me.

>>16421661
>creative writing program
This have the biggest scam of the world

>>16421589
you have 3 paths
>quit writing
>keep writing and take into account the criticisms of your idol
>keep writing and ignore the criticisms of your idol
there's no correct choice but there is one choice that a true writer would make. I won't tell you which.

>>16421658
To be fair dostoevsky is a hack

>>16421589
Retard fascists BTFO again lmao

>>16421726
Obviously it has to be either "quit writing" or "cuck to some puritan bitch". I can't see what else one could possibly do.

>>16421589
You oughta post some of your stuff if you want people to vet the criticism. If you really write as a narcissist that only attributes quality to others based on whether they appease or displease you your writing is only going to be enjoyed by people who are exactly like you. You can decide for yourself whether that's acceptable.

>>16421589
Tell the politicalnigger that art is superior to contemporary social issues

>>16421589
>You're a fascist, you're clearly a misogynist
He's clearly a faggot and you can safely discard his opinions. Be a fucking man and stay true to your convictions. Sticking to what you believe in means you will make enemies. Not everyone is going to like you. Fuck them. Just bee yourself, bro, but unironically. Don't worry about every random PC faggot seething because your work isn't "inclusive" enough.

>>16421614
There's a scene in the novel where the main character throws his sister in front of a carriage to be trampled by the horses because she insulted Ezra Pound, known fascist. She survives but becomes estranged from him. And yes, the novel is written in a stream-of-consciousness style and the bulk of the sixth and seventh chapters consists of the protagonist's musings on aestheticism and Mein Kampf. The main character also gives a speech that could admittedly be construed by some as racist, to much applause, in a scene wherein I've consciously tried to evoke the Beer Hall Putsch. Also there is some reflection on "being an incel" and "what it means to be a doomer" where there are some vaguely misogynistic sentiments expressed, but nothing too crazy.

reminder that miyazaki hated his son's film so much he had to walk out of the movie after 20 minutes

>>16421589
Lol, just give each stereotypical avatar a vice/disease. Just hypothetically... Hmmm... make an "cold distant Engineer-type" ill. Make a... I know, make a 'spiritually bankrupt capitalist' an alcoholic to really drive it home. What else... A New York academic as adrift as philosophies he studies... and chuck in an affair with a student. Hmm, then to really frame it use the totally, not at all hackneyed device of "a family getting together when they're all 'in crisis' to really hash out the past in order to reckon with what they've become." Now that's literature! See, piling on that "emotional gore" (such as was mentioned in regards to John Green in that thread the other day) is what makes characters "real."

Dude, if you suck it's probably because this guy is your hero. Bin your novel, forget him. You have the technique just add some fucking respect for yourself and quit trying to emulate hacks.

>>16421756

Stfu

>>16421589
>>"You write like you're avenging your childhood on the world."
But that's heart

>>16421740
"take into account"=/=cuck
op was given a chance to get the opinion from one of his heroes
his hero gave him a long list of feedback. Yes you can say that he's a faggot for saying misogyny and fascism are bad (although most people have that opinion) but he also gave a lot of legitimate criticism.
OP doesn't have to take his word as gospel. But to consider it when writing in the future?

>>16421756
Are you being serious? Im beginning to think this is bait.

>>16421661
Writing MFA programs are for women and queers.

>>16421793
I am being serious, I'll post excerpts if needed.

>>16421589
>"You're a fascist, you're clearly a misogynist, your characters are hollow and are transparently mouthpieces for philosophical positions you dislike."
you sound like an ancient greek philosopher
based

>>16421800
Well. I really try not to be negative on here, or at all in my life. But this doesnt sound very good at all. Musings on Mein Kampf ? What were you thinking?

>>16421756
Based. You're never going to be appeal to commie faggots and bluepilled NPCs, stop seeking validation from commie faggots and bluepilled NPCs, lest you become one.

>>16421810
>What were you thinking?
Kekd

>>16421810
Dude, just because my character is a Nazi doesn't mean I am one. I'm depicting it not endorsing it. Although if I do endorse it that would be a coincidence and independent of the fact that I wrote a character with those views.

>>16421589
>Pic "unrelated."
lmao

>>16421823
I never called you a Nazi, Im just basically saying this sounds terrible. And that virtually no one would read this today. Except maybe people on a 4chan thread.

Come on man, how old are you ?

>>16421756
You're not OP and you're here to troll the thread lmao.

>>16421823
If you depict a nazi without dragging nazis through the mud, then you're also a nazi. You have to uphold the image of the nazi as the ultimate evil. Anything less will always make you look like a nazi in the eyes of normies.

Michael Crichton had a college professor at Harvard who also belittled his writing and to expose him he submitted Orwell's 1984 under his own name and he still got shat on and somehow he still got his books published. Move on and keep attending your course, OP.

Take the lessons from your masterclass and analyze it. His issues are more story based rather than the actually technical writing behind it all. His views on your book has to do more with market appeal perhaps his isn't your target audience. Take account if it's money you're after, perhaps your book might not be a sure hit but if you want to put out your story because you have an intense passion for then by all means keep working on it.

Gaiman's rules for writing says
>Remember: when people tell you something's wrong or doesn't work for them, they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly what they think is wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong.

Don't be a pussy and keep writing!

>>16421800
I'd love to see some excerpts
Hell, why not just put the whole book out?

>professor tells me my work is 'plotless' and wont get published in current state
>hes right
>dont care
>write story mocking him
>submit it
>he geeks, says its hilarious

>years later, refined skills and finally get short story published
>send it to him
>"its great anon."
>loves specific detail no other reader ever caught or focused on

I miss college bros

>>16421589
Why is this guy your hero again? If you admire him from his writing, focus on the technical writing aspect of what he tells you, don't pay any mind to anything else. If you're in awe of his superior morals, then do the opposite.
You're already in the fucker's class. You paid money to learn from him, one way or the other. Who cares if he's not your friend? Steal what you can from him, and advance on your own personal journey. Maybe once you make it big you'll find him again at some conference, and you'll be able to see more eye-to-eye.

>>16421874
>I miss college bros
I fucking hate it, every student and professor is a fucking moron. I am not even smart, they're just stupid. It's hell.

>>16421880
Nah bruh you're probably the moron

>>16421880
>I am not even smart, they're just stupid. It's hell.
This. College today is an absolute fucking joke.

>>16421880
>>16421887
Alright Einsteins, explain in what way you're so much better than everyone else

>>16421823
>just because my character is a Nazi doesn't mean I am one.

Keep in mind the amount of mainstream retardation that is currently going on.

I had a get together at my house the other day and I invited one of the attendees (a Columbia University law student) to help me solve a large puzzle on my drawing room table. The puzzle is of aircraft from World War II—American, British, French, Italian, Japanese, and German airplanes with their respective flags next to them. He declined, saying that he doesn't like puzzles, especially ones with so many swastikas on them, and said it in a manner that sounded like a personal indictment against me. I didn't bother mentioning to him that my grandfather flew on a B-17 during the war and was involved in the bombing campaign against Nazi Germany. It's fun to think that such a simpleton with no appreciation of history will be probably be gainfully employed in the legal field several years from now.

>>16421756
>but nothing too crazy

>>16421895
I would, but you're probably not smart enough to get it.

>>16421589
Sounds to me like he’s threatened by your writing because even though it’s probably not polished and professional, he still sees something in it with visceral power that might eclipse his work. Or it makes him feel out of touch with the contemporary world and he needs to lash back at it in self defence.

So whatever you wrote, even if it’s shit, you did good.

>>16421895
We weren't better than everyone else. Knowing everyone around you is a fucking retard doesn't mean you're smart. It doesn't even really mean you're smarter than them except in idiot detection skills.

>>16421899
>It's fun to think that such a simpleton with no appreciation of history will be probably be gainfully employed in the legal field several years from now.
>fun

>>16421886
>>16421887
>>16421895
I am the same anon from that other thread.
>speak to an expert on Hegel
>studying dialectics, ask for help
>he legit can't tell me anything new even though I haven't read Hegel at all and am only familiar with him through Marx
Similar deal with most of my other professors, they just don't know anything about their field of work at all. They have a lot of data, but no understanding of it. Fellow students don't even have that. They just stare dumbly at the professor during seminars and wait for someone else to answer the questions. It's agonising.

>>16421930
I used to think this and then I realized that i approached them so retardedly and they dealt with so many shitheads just like me that they didn't bother responding. Youre the problem anon

>>16421942
Speak for yourself, you must have been incredibly stupid if you couldn't even reach the level of the average college student. In a sense, it's impressive.

>>16421915
Got it. So not only are you an arrogant, bitter faggot, you're also too much of a pussy to own up to it.

>>16421953
>incredibly
Kek

>>16421733
to be fair you should off yourself

>>16421930
Thank you. You get it. People put way too much faith in authority and don't think enough these days. They always assume that anything that comes from a perceived authority or consensus must be correct and rarely question anything worth questioning. I'm so fucking tired of reading text books that assert half baked theories as if they were fact, and then build upon said theories before bothering to see if they still hold up. For instance, the commonly held belief that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad. This comes from a single botched study from the 50s and the dumb hole who published it lost her tenure for it. Yet, today we ignore this fact and still teach med students that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad. It's all so fucking tiresome.

>>16421960
>be in a place where everyone is a moron and everyone has Dunning-Kruger
>don't have Dunning-Kruger
>"wow you're the problem bro"
>t. you

>>16421979
Youre so clearly young lmao

>>16421756
This is bait or you’re not the OP.

>>16421986
>Dunning-Kruger
>t. reddit

>>16422015
You're literally a sucker for academia, I'm not going to take this shit from you of all people lmao

>>16421756
If this isn’t bait I’d totally buy this book.

>>16421589
He sounds like a cuck and I’m a commie. Never meet your heroes.

Why has nobody mentioned that Franzen was the teacher who trashed his writing?
Also,
>franzen
>respected on /lit/

>>16421589
I'll pretend this is serious. Holy shit based as fuck author, my respects

>>16422057
nu-/lit/ teens have no idea who he is. shocking, I know.

>>16421756
If what you're saying is true, and if you're in the Iowa program, you've got something on the ball, *and* you're doing something different. You're articulating things that a lot of people are thinking about -- and things that a lot of people don't want people to think about.

Press ahead; roll the dice. Maybe you'll find a good agent willing to take a chance on you, who can guide through the death star of big publishing.

Every now and then they'll publish something that breaks up the logjam; maybe you're that guy.

>>16422057
because we're not gullible retards

>>16421823
Answer me this: could you write someone with political opinions which are the polar opposite from yours? Could you write an activist who firmly believes in social justice? Furthermore, could you do it without writing it like "today I woke up, checked my mail for the money from George Soros, and began thinking about how much I want the white race to go extinct"? Could you make the public empathetic to the character and present their thinking without bias?

>>16421589
Don't feel compelled to quit writing because of this. The guy sounds an salty boomer liberal who's part of a dying political paradigm. Read the writing on the wall, his ideological outlook won't be the dominant cultural force within another generation.

>>16422143
I'm going to write some black lives matter stuff to see if it sells better than normal stuff

>>16421718
this

>>16421589
hold on bro, don't give up. he gave u million dollar feedback meditate on that. basically if u can find some humanity u can write good shit also u think writers are mentally stable lol fuck no, he said quit writing because real writers don't quit. ever cause they have to write.

>>16421661
>best creative writing program
Yeah, how many famous creative writers they produce?

>>16422143
Has this ever been done for an alt-right / natsoc character in a published work?

>don't write fiction ever because I'm a stemfag
>the closest I get to it is policy memos or gen ed courses
>tfw developed an overly aggressive and obtuse writing style from posting on this shit-hole for years
As a plus it gives my papers a lot of personality (I frequently insult entire nations and people like Germany or Tom Steyer), but some of my peers can't really follow anything that isn't overtly literal and autistic. The professors always seem to like them, though. Sometimes I wonder what it would've been like to major in English, but my university isn't really too good at that.

>>16422174
Well, that's not really the point. The point is that every aspiring author should have the capacity to write characters of opposing opinions justly.

>>16421589

>>16421871
>Hell, why not just put the whole book out?
I'm not retarded enough to do that. But here's an excerpt he particularly took issue with. (Comment in red his)

>>16422196
I suspect many successful authors won't be able to do that with a Nazi character

>>16421895
why would somebody ever explain that to you, was this a test to see if he was dumb enough to take the bait and end up looking like an idiot?

>>16421589
>Pic "unrelated."
genuine lol

>>16422228
On the .002% chance that this isn't amusing bait, why don't you want to put the book out anonymously? Are you going to try to publish it in the future?

>>16422196
see
>>16421845
If you're accorded any honors by academia it's because it feels that your thought is in some way compatible with various hegemonic liberal beliefs. This criticism is essentially dishonest because people of truly "opposing opinions" are regarded by the system as unfit for participation in the system before they even begin writing

>>16421823
>Although if I do endorse it that would be a coincidence and independent of the fact that I wrote a character with those views.
10/10 thread op

>>16421733
To be fair it is a very fun book

>>16422228
My fucking sides

>>16421589
>How the fuck do you deal with a criticism like that?
Alright, what's this tool's best essay? Reading it out of spite and slighting it out of defense to my /lit/bros. Call it a 'love of retribution'. No fucker who lives and breathes among us should be allowed to continue stomping forward without a meticulous examination of their jowl and an scrupulous inspection of their hair. Their garb shall be critiqued, their gait shall be dissected. Presumptions shall form and heads will roll.
Also, OP, going to need some of your writing. We do this old school. The Text against The Text. Please don't be as glib and vindictive as he has attested, unless its warranted - obviously. We will measure both of your worths, find the weightiest among us, we will find whose Blakean 'divine lot' is truly the largest, and the mightiest.
Also, another sidenote, psychologically: the inflamed critique wouldn't exist unless you actually intimidated this charlatan. You are enchroaching on his territory and he has fired some caustic nukes toward your immortal φρήν. Hold your head up high, anon. Steadfast and resolute, captain. This coward has no authority in these seas. Only a chorus of idiocy keeps his ship afloat. Verily, a counterfeit. Truly, a false impression of a man. Lash! Lash! Strike me not with your acerbic whip, but shower me in the poisons of your praises! Ha! "Instructor", what cruel irony it is. Feel better anon. Not even the devil could be so harsh.

>>16422228
Bro do you just like grab the first /pol/ thing that comes to mind and put it to paper unthinkingly? Like yeah, I browse /pol/ and I'd find this shit strange. It's supposed to be literature, not memes or /pol/posting. I still think this is fake.

>>16422228
it really reads like parody, the problem with being extremist and thinking dumb things like that is that you have give it heart and complexity; Céline isnt great cause he was a nazi supporter or a facist, he was a great writer who portraited feelings and thoughts uniquely with beauty and depht.

>>16421874
>I miss college bros

I just miss the praise more than anything. When I provided some insightful commentary or wrote a really good essay, I would be getting my dick metaphorically sucked for the rest of the week by professors and other students. In the professional world, nobody gives a shit about you no matter how well you do. You can knock a project out of the park, way above expectations, and your superiors will just shrug their shoulders and pretend that the work you did was standard and not above and beyond. Nobody cares about you in the real world. College is a place where people notice when you go the extra mile, that's what I miss.

>>16422278
I hated this about college because I don't believe compliments towards me are real and am immediately suspicious of anyone acting like I am special or skilled in any way

>>16422228
Now I feel stupid for almost believing this. Does franzen even still offer writing classes? I think you wrote this and then made up the whole part about a franzen writing course in order to preemptively critique your work and in turn get us to critique it. Well, here’s mine: it stinks.

>>16422228
>Reads like a parody.

>>16422284
My praise for you was genuine, anon. You really are a brilliant young man!

tbqh i'm just a narcissist. when people praise me i fall in love with them. i'm extremely susceptible to flattery. it's a flaw more than anything. feels gud tho

>>16421930
do you honestly expect your professors to know all the specific ideas of every rambly writer they come across? be reasonable.

>>16422297
I'm a narcissist too I'm just suspicious of anyone saying something that might fuel my narcissism because I kind of know I'm delusional.

>>16422288
>Reads like a parody.
I'm either missing something here, or I'm not. Or I'm not satirizing myself successfully. Isn't the point of parody to be read like parody?

>>16422228
One day there will be an actual literary work like this

>>16422309
Which part do you think is parody, anon?

>>16422305
I expect them to have basic general knowledge and/or knowledge in their supposed field of expertise. I am usually disappointed.

>>16422057
>>16422066
franzen doesn’t teach retards. he’s busy writing irrelevant essays.

>>16421838
>he hasn't read Min Kamp vol 6 by Karl Ove Knausgaard
Libs love Karl Ove. Idk what ur gettin at

>>16421623
under-rated post right here

>>16422228
If this is a larp... why? Why Franzen? Why post an excerpt of garbage writing with fake notes from JF? >said it was well constructed >posts that excerpt

Why.

>>16422144
>his ideological outlook won't be the dominant cultural force within another generation.

The Cathedral is here to stay.

>>16421756
>There's a scene in the novel where the main character throws his sister in front of a carriage to be trampled by the horses because she insulted Ezra Pound
holy BASED

>>16421589
If it's the writer in your pic, he's a leftist faggot. Sounds like your going after the Houellebecq crowd. Which is the total opposite target audience to the limp dick beta bitch your picrelated writes for.

>>16421589
Mate, the boring cunt in your OP hasn't even read the classics. He's not a writer but a petty excuse. A nipple on the pavement.

>>16421887
>College today is an absolute fucking joke.

Horia Belcea didn't go to college, or grad school, and look what he's accomplished.

OP should go and do likewise.

>>16422228
That description of the photo is pretty good. You have talent OP, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

>>16422228
>signed JF
for fuck's sake, you really were in Jonathan Fagzen's write-like-a-faggot curse??

>>16421589

Ernest Hemingway : If it's bad, I'll hate it because I hate bad writing, and if it's good, I'll be envious and hate all the more. You don't want the opinion of another writer.

Listen to Ernest, op.

>>16422485
That's a fictional version of Hem. Still good dialogue.

>>16422228
>”Deplatform him!”
>”Fuck outta here, Adolf!”
>mfw

>>16421658
>no one whos not a wears a bowtie fuck this guy
terrible style. Please don’t talk like this.

>>16421658
>the artist understands nothing of the nature of any art but his own. you went to him and asked him 'how much is my art like your own'
pretty much this. you want the opinion of another writer but rather the opinion of an editor.

>paying thousands and thousands of dollars to have your modern-day goebbels novel mocked by jonathan fucking franzen

>>16422228

Honestly I think this is great stuff. You’ve got a bright future ahead of you. Keep it up - AH

>>16422228
OP, you should probably use less Internet buzzword-lingo like "deplatforming," and also consider giving the opposition some depth or nuance if you're going to write a veiled political commentary. You could be Ayn Rand, or you could be Orson Scott Card/Frank Herbert.

>>16421589
>"A heart."
Boooooooo. Get fucking real. I almost believed you until this line. Nobody buys this crap.

>>16421589
he knows youve got something good so hes trynna get you out of the game. Keep fucking going

>>16421661
>Pleb, Iowa has the best creative writing program in the world.
Second rate hucksters state offers the foremost course on huckstering the written word. Pottery.

>>16422508
This is the hardest ive laughed all day.

>>16421589
>MFA
The eternal Journeyman

>>16421589
>even though the piece was technically well-constructed
This was praise. If it had zero merit there would be radically less to say -- this is a good thing.
>"A heart."
>"You write like you're avenging your childhood on the world."
>"You're a fascist, you're clearly a misogynist, your characters are hollow and are transparently mouthpieces for philosophical positions you dislike."
Physiognomy is a QR code for entries in the Book of Life; that gnome in the pic is unlikely to deserve to be anyone's hero in any capacity; while he's likely right on the juvenalia first novel attempt, he is also projecting from the position of spiritual Boomerism -- It comes down to this OP the only ones that contribute/make it are ones that don't take no for an answer: take what you are against how you appear to be (especially to others) more into account in fiction and waking life -- every thing he said could hold true, and you might have the scaffolding for a good satire/critique of the same

>>16421756
> a year in the life of Jack Gladney, a professor who has made his name by pioneering the field of Hitler studies (though he has not taken German lessons until this year). He has been married five times to four women and rears a brood of children and stepchildren (Heinrich, Denise, Steffie, Wilder) with his current wife, Babette. Jack and Babette are both extremely afraid of death; they frequently wonder which of them will be the first to die. The first part of White Noise, called "Waves and Radiation", is a chronicle of contemporary family life combined with academic satire.
Just frame it as an ode to Don Delillo's White Noise and you're scot-free

>>16421589
YOU SHOULD'VE ACCUSED HIM OF RAPE, YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKING FAGGOT

>>16421589
Post a part of your novel so we can decide who's in the right here.

>>16422508
Is that Elizabeth Bruenig? What a cutie.

>>16422590
Nah, irl audiences clearly shout "deplatform him!" and "what a racist, revoke his first amendment!"

>>16422260
I think I just remembered why /lit/ is the pseud board

>>16422888
Kek, I'd also like to see his musings on being a doomer incel as well.

>>16422572
>>16422508
Been a sec since I laughed this hard

>>16422228
The comment is spot on. It sounds like you're trying to force a scene from a propaganda movie into a novel, and it's not working. Also, you sound like you've never actually said anything offensive to the kind of people you're talking about here. They usually don't shout. Most of the time they just start engaging in extremely passive-aggressive and childish behavior. It takes a lot to get to the point where they're shouting.

>>16422907
"Obviously they couldn't understand my feels," he said, alone, in his car, to no one, silently.

>>16422228
Please God let this be real.

>>16421690
Pyw

Unprecedentedly based thread. Please post more of the book.

>>16422228
> Fuck outta here, Adolf!
> Deplatform him!
> You're a racist!
kek I'm losing it

>>16421589
>have a masterclass with an author who is highly respected on here and who is one of my personal writing heroes
That's insanely gay dude.

>>16421764
But "Tales from the Earthsea" is actually a shit movie desu

>>16421589
For someone to react that strongly to your writing is generally a good thing.

>>16421756
>throws his sister in front of a carriage to be trampled by the horses because she insulted Ezra Pound, known fascist
Based

books are overrated just go to primetimepenny on ig

>>16421756
The guy who wrote the nigger-book was more subtle than this
Holy fuck, Anon, you fucked it up really bad
I don't think you should go to therapy, but really, be more self-aware
Ps: I don't think post-ww2 was too crazy about carriages, if they were, they were poor and probably didn't read much, I know what type of aesthetic you are trying to build, but it isn't working

>>16423638
>The guy who wrote the nigger-book was more subtle than this
Link? I want to read it

>>16422572
Why does Boris always look like he just woke up seconds ago in every single picture

>>16422228
if this is reAl his criticism wAs pretty AccurAte. you seem to hAve A reAl tAlent for witing, but your style is too bombAstic. they were Also right About it feeling like sAtire, if i reAd this As A serious story it's not believAble, As evidenced by the fAct thAt everyone including myself suspects thAt this is A troll. if this isn't A troll, it feels like the guy hAd A chip on his shoulder About your subject mAtter, but he wAs Also mostly right

>>16422228
The only thing I'm imagining is a huge stage with a picture of a wojak-trad-girl in a wheat field with a guy saying "they took it from us..."
I can't stop laughing this is horrible
The prose is nice though

>>16423665
He didn't publish it but it was a stream-of-consciousness of a racist dude where 1/5th of every word was nigger

>>16423682
Just re-read it
Sorry the prose is pants
It really reads like "then Douglas showed them the beauty of EVROPA, they rejected him because they didn't understand how EVROPA is, the west is doomed"
I also tried to write a fascist character, but it was in the late 60's in Italy and his father was a respected politician from the PCI, and he was on those groups just because he was kicked out of home.
What sort of backstory does your character have? Is he just a /pol/fag because he's a cunt? How should one feel empathy for him? And if he had a backstory explaining it, then WHY DOESN'T THE PROSE TALK ABOUT IT
It's bad
Fuck you

> tfw Stonetoss is more subtle than OP's writing

>>16422228
So... A Confederacy Of Dunces but with another type of Ignatius?

>>16423716
Makes sense, stonetoss is a leftist.

disgust isn't so bad and can even being a good thing depending on your goals, the worse thing is if someone tells you your writing is boring

>>16422508
>>16422572
Kekked but I don't get the joke, it's just my herd instinct seeing other people laughing.

>>16423716
>>16423770
In what way is he a leftist? Who gives a fuck if he economically counts as a leftist.

>>16423826
It's a joke. Stonetoss is obviously rightwing, you dimwit

>>16423707
>I also tried to write a fascist character, but it was in the late 60's in Italy and his father was a respected politician from the PCI, and he was on those groups just because he was kicked out of home.
Isn't this a German movie from the 90s?

>>16421658
Dostoyevsky's writing is furthest from solipsism he is a master at making complex, real characters that make engrossing arguments that are contrary to his own beliefs, go read Brothers Karamazov again

>>16422228
Actually good writing up until the reaction to the PowerPoint slide. Only then does it seem like a parody.

>>16423665

>>16421589
OP btfo. Right wing kids should stay far away from art

>>16421930
>ask prof what his opinion on Spinoza is
>he didn’t have one
>ask prof about Stirner
>didn’t know who that was
>ask prof about Schopenhauer’s proto-evolutionary thought
>”he thought that? Wow I need to look that up”

>>16423881
>he is a master at making complex, real characters
lol try reading another author sometime. literally anyone else

>>16424144
wasted check em'

>>16423679
bAsed

>underage newfags falling for OP's blatant bait

>>16421589
that's not even proper criticism. sounds like a bitter projecting faggot desu.

>>16423840
Oh, I'm sorry.

>>16424138
...

>>16421589
I recognise this posting style.... Who are you?

>>16424246
>was a democratic revolutionary
>right-wing

>>16421589
This never happened

>>16423694
>1/5th of every word was nigger
Somehow, that'd be even better.

>>16421589
fake post but that's what i imagine /pol/ writing would be like

>>16424266
For like four years but then moved away from it, before and after that short period of being a revolutionary he was anti-revolution as well as democracy, but he completely grew to dislike democracy in his old age(as with so many other great thinkers). Are you not familiar with the important role he played in the unification of Germany?

>>16424474
Yes I am not

>>16422228
Certified bait. "JF," lmao

>>16424144
You couldn't be more wrong:

In literature, polyphony (Russian: пoлифoния) is a feature of narrative, which includes a diversity of simultaneous points of view and voices. Caryl Emerson describes it as "a decentered authorial stance that grants validity to all voices."[1] The concept was introduced by Mikhail Bakhtin, using a metaphor based on the musical term polyphony.

Bakhtin's primary example of polyphony was Fyodor Dostoevsky's prose. Bakhtin contended that Dostoevsky, unlike previous novelists, did not provide a 'single vision', or describe situations with a 'monological' authorial voice. Instead, he aimed for fully dramatic novels of ideas in which conflicting views and characters are left to develop unevenly.[2] According to Bakhtin, the chief characteristic of Dostoevsky's novels is "a plurality of independent and unmerged voices and consciousnesses, a genuine polyphony of fully valid voices". His major characters are, "by the very nature of his creative design, not only objects of authorial discourse but also subjects of their own directly signifying discourse." (italics in the original)[3]

Dosto is considered to be one of the masters of polyphonic writing.

>>16424539
Good job copying and pasting from Wikipedia, wow

>>16424550

It was a source, beyond my self, that confirms what most people who actually read Dostoevsky agree on: that he was a master at portraying multiple points of view, positions, narratives and essentially as far from solipsistic as humanly possible.

Nice deflection though, wow.

>>16422228
KWAB

Hey OP, wanna play pharaoh (1999) with me?

>>16421589
>>"You write like you're avenging your childhood on the world."
>>"You're a fascist, you're clearly a misogynist, your characters are hollow and are transparently mouthpieces for philosophical positions you dislike."
>>"It's like you've never understood what gives other people their humanity.

To be fair, that's an excellent characterization of the average 4chan poster.

>>16421756
Fairly good trolling, but weirdly too precise, I'm going to give you a 6/10: significantly more accomplished than most of the low grade provocation that passes for trolling around here. Next time maybe play up the emotional content a little more.

>>16423674
Since his school days he has realized he can't bank on his looks so he instead uses his looks to invite people to underestimate him, gain public attention, and aim for being 'relatable.' All useful for a public figure.

>>16424646
I only play counterstrike (1.6)

>>16421589
>You're a fascist, you're clearly a misogynist, your characters are hollow and are transparently mouthpieces for philosophical positions you dislike.
>It's like you've never understood what gives other people their humanity. It's a solipsistic text.
He's telling you to be the next Ayn Rand, OP!

>>16421589
It doesn't seem to matter what he thinks in the long run. Just keep pushing the boulder up the hill and enjoy the task at hand. It's my experience that most of those who lash out so aggressively at other peoples art as to attack the person behind it in an academic setting are massive faggots with chips on their shoulders about something.

>>16421756
Wants to be a writer, isn't self aware enough to realize that this is a supremely autistic thing to turn in as an assignment.

>>16421756
>There's a scene in the novel where the main character throws his sister in front of a carriage to be trampled by the horses because she insulted Ezra Pound, known fascist
I don't care what any academic says to you, OP, this bit is pure gold and they can't take it away from you.

>>16423881
i like his books but you cant deny that theyre blatantly parts of his schizo psyche having a go at each other. esp the emphasis of dreams in crime and punishment. theres a reason that he, vicariously through nietzsche of course, influenced psychoanalysis.
not that he was conscious of it, but the phenomena remains
>>16422520
your probably esl, no one would consider that a sentence, i obviously wrote a glib response and forgot the word hack
yeah i come on lit to showcase muh best prose

>>16424514
But Wagner WAS right wing.

>>16421756
so your diary desu

>>16423881
Everyone who disagree with him is portrayed as foolish or immoral. His books are nothing more than propaganda for his type of theocratic extremism.

he was a triggered libtard. finish your book to spite him. make it even more fascist. if he thought you were a right wing extremist make your book so that he thinks you are an ultra-uber-omega right winger to the extreme, for the 90s.

that is show that faggot libtard no one cares that some jew connections got him his position.

>>16421589
He thinks you are a threat and he was personally offended by the political content. Thats why he told you to stop writing, he doesnt want that sort of viewpoint expressed in fiction. If your writing was mediocre then he would have patted you on the head and encouraged you to study more and maybe one day you'll be as wonderful as he is. His whole livelihood is to encourage mediocre hacks and his strong reaction against your writing proves you are not one.
Get a new writing hero.
>>16424141
Being a professor in the 'humanities' is 90% bluff
This rings utterly true

>>16421671
David Berman studied there too

>>16421748
or just responding nigger. i find that word works in all situations involving libtards

>>16421756
based. just crank that up to 11 now that you know it trolls the libtards

>>16422278

I miss being in an environment where people are at least pretending to be interested in learning and knowledge. In the real world no one really gives a shit about those things.

>>16421589
Its fine, you're just a tin man go search for a heart.
No but srsly, I dunno bout you but most people here are nerds and nerds write what they dont dare to live. So fuck of your nerdish shyness and go live a great adventure and then write.

>>16421589
Johnathan Franzen is a pretentious ass. I wouldn't take criticisms from a safe, self-consciously "literary" soporific know it all like him. Probably means your book is good.

>>16421756
a toast to the based one

>>16421778
>stfu

>>16424575
Your copy and paste shows that one person thinks that

someone should write a book like this for real and publish it on amazog for rw twitter. the parallel infrastructure for distributing samizdat already exists if its any good. you probably suck though because everyone sucks, also this thread is obvious troll bc jonathan franzen is not a creative writing professor

>>16426704
>rw twitter
those fairies don't deserve it

>>16421589
>>be me, pursuing a creative writing MFA at Iowa
>>have a masterclass with an author who is highly respected on here and who is one of my personal writing heroes
>>show him a draft of my novel that I've been working on for 6 years
>>he reads it and hates it
>>basically completely trashes it and actually tells me to quit writing
>>says even though the piece was technically well-constructed, I'm missing something necessary to write well
>>ask him what
>>"A heart."
>>"You write like you're avenging your childhood on the world."
>>"You're a fascist, you're clearly a misogynist, your characters are hollow and are transparently mouthpieces for philosophical positions you dislike."
>>"It's like you've never understood what gives other people their humanity. It's a solipsistic text."
>>ends by urging me to go to therapy


Is there anything wrong with doing what the author accusses op of doing?
Why shouldnt he "avenge his childhood on the world"?

>>16421661
Wow, the greatest midwit factory in the world!

>>16426763
/lit/ has that honor

>>16426761
Nothing wrong with it, but this shit sounds like a modern version of The Turner Diaries.

>>16421756
>Also there is some reflection on "being an incel" and "what it means to be a doomer" where there are some vaguely misogynistic sentiments expressed, but nothing too crazy.

Im curious, what are your conclusions?

>>16422572
hahahahahah summed up this entire thread

>>16422228
>"deplatform him"

jesus dude

>>16421589
Franzen doesnt live in Iowa

>>16426776

>>"You write like you're avenging your childhood on the world."

I don't care about ops meme book, ignore everything else he said or includes in his "book", is "You write like you're avenging your childhood on the world." actual valid criticism?

That "revenge" is the reason I write, and I never really got the impression that there was anything wrong with that, do people and pseuds take offence at that?

This is literally the only encouraging comment he left on the entire draft.

>>16421589
OP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGaRKNY1Efk

>>16427255

>>16421756
Based and Ezrapilled

>>16427255
i don't care if this shit is fake, it's the best oc we've had in years. howling

>>16427457
>t. footfag

>>16427255
>woman written as crass foot fetish bait that thinks OPs self insert is a charming rebel
>’she has an inner life here’

Lmao pleas please be real

>>16421733
kill yourself so you wont have to share art

>>16422143
>could you do it without writing it like "today I woke up, checked my mail for the money from George Soros, and began thinking about how much I want the white race to go extinct"
This reminds me of The Iron Swastika by Norman Spinrad. It's one giant strawman about how science fiction fans are all fascists and should feel bad for liking stories about heroes saving their people.

Literally the EvaXephon of literature. You're fuckin sad.

>>16427255
This is the best thread I’ve been apart of in a long time. I truly can’t even tell what’s really going on here but I’m kekking nonetheless. Well done OP

This is fake and gay and I can't believe so many of you fell for this. There is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that Jonathan Franzen has any association whatsoever with the Iowa MFA program. Franzen thinks MFA programs are stupid. (Google it.) If he were reading students' entire books and leaving comments on them his involvement would be somewhere on the Iowa website. OP obviously picked Iowa because it's the no. 1 creative writing program, forgetting that a lot of people on here are so dumb that they don't even know that and think studying writing at Iowa is low-status. OP actually went to the trouble to create fake comments under Franzen's name and screenshot them. OP you are a fucking retard and everyone who fell for this is even more retarded than OP. Please leave this board permanently if you are OP or fell for this, or have ever posted anything to do with Nick Land.

GET

THE

FUCK

OUT

>>16428723
If he leaves then we don't get to hear more about his Nazi incel foot-fetish book

>>16428723
no one cares spergtron 3000. thread is still funny

>>16421589
If the writer in question was actually the one pictured, half of his criticisms apply more to himself than you. If you've ever read his essay collection How to Be Alone (as a mature adult) you can plainly see the cracks in his own work and feeble self conception.

He thinks his more human because he likes mail or chooses to smoke cigarettes. He willingly indulges in tropes about authenticity and sincerity even though his own endless condescension for the average person signs through.

He's just trading in the same phony worldview as his dead best buddy, though he's less creative, less insightful, and less skilled on the page.

>>16421653
I’m sure people have a lot to say about it, but it’s a very well known program and is considered prestigious by people who have respect academia (I don’t)

>>16422156
Is this a serious question?

>>16422228
The imagery is alright (besides "a cloud piled high like the bust of an ancient thinker") but the reaction is too over the top.

>>16427821
>EvaXephon
Literally who?

>>16421589
He sounds like a bourgeois

>>16426555
Can you argue against that one person, or do we have to trade opinions like Pokemon cards? "Look, more people agree with me than you!"

>>16422228
JF Gariepy?

https://writersworkshop.uiowa.edu/people

>>16430288
Damn, I can’t believe it was fake

>>16421775
lol underrated

>>16427457
>>16428288
Its the Husserl anon

>>16421589
not sure if this is bait but fuck the critics OP. you do you

>>16421589
sounds like he just hates conservatives desu
let me read some of your novel instead and I’ll tell you what I think anon (:

>>16429864
If we're using your analogy, you don't even have a real Pokemon card. You have a photocopy of a Pokemon card from a display case at a shop. You can't even articulate why you hold your position. Simply dahhh Wikipedia sez so

>>16423868
Is it?
Now I want to watch it

>>16421589
Nice blog but this
>"You're a fascist, you're clearly a misogynist, your characters are hollow and are transparently mouthpieces for philosophical positions you dislike."
makes your novel sound unironically good. This is high praise.

>>16421589
B-Based...

>>16421979
>For instance, the commonly held belief that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad. This comes from a single botched study from the 50s
Actually there are hundreds of studies demonstrating this, more and more being done every year. You made a good point about people putting too much faith in authority and then you go on and make a retarded comment like this. You just played yourself anon.

>>16424131
lord above. this is one of the greatest things I have ever seen.

fun thread

>>16425137
>your probably esl

>>16421589
Do you want success? go to therapy, and use that story to sell yourself as that guy who repented and now praise ((them)) and warn the youth against the dangers of reading dead white men.

>>16427255
No fucking way.

>>16421589
Harsh criticism is the best thing that ever happened to me. If you didn't want feedback, why did you show him your work?

>>16427255
>This is literally the only encouraging comment he left on the entire draft.

So pretend he said ten encouraging things that validate you as a writer, then look at his criticisms and evaluate those in the context of what you are trying to achieve. It's standard practice in critique groups to begin every evaluation with praise. We do this for the man-babbys who will cry if we get straight to the criticism.

Take his comment that "you're writing fiction not partisan rhetoric". Do you agree with this? Does it fit your view of the art form? There's no reason partisan rhetoric can't be in a novel. Do you want it in yours?

Find the answers to these questions. How do you want your readers to react?

>>16431447
i took less than 20 seconds to type it

>>16427255
>stood up to Professor Rosenberg
Good lord, this is gold.

>>16431430
thanks anon for documenting this hilarious thread
OP post more excerpts, it can’t take that long to write them

>>16431430
very nice 5/5

>>16421589
I wanna read this book OP
This is the kinda book we need this day and age
So fuck if it’s racist or not

>>16433309
>This is the kinda book we need this day and age

>>16421756
You deserved it

>>16433338
Nice, I didn't have that DFW screenshot saved. Goes in the DFW folder.

>>16421589
I'll always think Franzen is based for that climate change essay. I've yet to see anyone counter it sufficiently and it made the whole movement seem like a gaggle of sanctimonious nitwits.

>>16433464
Is that this one, about hope?
"What if we stopped pretending?"
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/what-if-we-stopped-pretending

>>16422228
can someone tell me what exactly makes his writing trash. I know its trash but I can't point exactly what makes it

>>16422228
>Reject racist artist

Oh No oh No oh

>>16425247
Wat?
Literally when does this happen?

>>16434244
Checked. OP clearly needs to become next Hitler.

>>16432528
And? I'm writing this quickly, too. And I'm sure I won't write a different word from the one I meant to write anywhere.

>>16422228
>The situation is altogether implausible
Dear god OP please tell me the man who wrote "Purity" actually gave this as sincere criticism of your story.

>>16421589
>You're a fascist, you're clearly a misogynist
He's making judgements about your character, not your writing. That says a lot.

He just sounds like a shitty two-bit writer who's teaching because he can't support himself with his art. Aside from your grade, why do you care what he thinks?

>>16433610
That one. Yep.

>>16433464
>In times of increasing chaos, people seek protection in tribalism and armed force, rather than in the rule of law, and our best defense against this kind of dystopia is to maintain functioning democracies, functioning legal systems, functioning communities. In this respect, any movement toward a more just and civil society can now be considered a meaningful climate action. Securing fair elections is a climate action. Combatting extreme wealth inequality is a climate action. Shutting down the hate machines on social media is a climate action.

>>16421589
If it wad franzen who said it to you it would be a hilarious projection, because that is the exact thing he does in his books.
Was he right, though?

>>16435992
>secure fair elections by rigging them
>combat wealth inequality by theft
>shut hate machines by killing all discourse

>>16435992
>Totalitarianism, form of government that theoretically permits no individual freedom and that seeks to subordinate all aspects of individual life to the authority of the state.

>>16421589
He sounds like a fucking faggot anon.

>never meet your heroes

>>16421589
you should take a gun into school
and teach him about writing
by telling him about
the dream we both know
matters
where this poem
was a big
lie
and i was kidding

>>16421690
failed in drawings of random things around the house
succeeded in removing vermin from his nation

never meet your heroes.

>>16435737
I get the allure of the pessimism of it, but it's saturated with vulgar platitudes about remaking cultures and economies, banning guns, etc.

>>16421756
Take everything your doing turn it up 10% and self publish THEN quit writing don't worry history will vindicate you

>>16431343
> hundreds of studies

No there are not anon. There just aren't. You made that up.

>>16437056
HAHAHAH he did jack shit, he just made it harder for us today (and thank God, it's about time we had tough enemies to fight) and gave the Jews something to kvetch about for the next years. He killed a bunch, but obviously not the right ones, or all of them. Nazism was just the choreographed reaction to Communism, both probably funded by ((( wall street )))

>>16421756

>>16421718
I went to this program. It's not a scam. Everyone who gets in gets a full ride and a living stipend. If you're undeniably good or they like your writing you get some kind of scholarship that means you don't even have to teach the first year. Either way you don't pay anything if you get in. They pay you enough to live on for two years and you get a nice mfa from a high quality program on your resume. Most people who go to Iowa don't end up becoming great or even good writers. But that's everywhere. Some quit after the program and that's expected. Those who have tough skin and usually were already thinking of themselves and practicing as artists before the program usually are the ones who stick with the craft afterwards. My experience there was tyte. Always had beer money and got to meet and exchange a lot of great experiences and conversations with some interesting peers and established writers. Yes, it's kind of a privileged conservative program, but it has its merits.

This thread is still alive?