/lit/ - Literature

They aren’t Marxists. They’re liberals LARPing as radicals by orchestrating a psyop to convince people that they can change the system. Socialism has effectively been turned into an aesthetic for teenage white girls, Zizek is correct, Marxism is completely dead after 2020

>>16415873
>It wasn't REAL marxism

Literal meme at this point

>>16415889
Ah yes Marxism is sweeping America at the moment, where everyone is indoctrinated into Woke identity politics that has zero materialist analysis, advocate for liberal freedoms and equality, and sing Neoliberal slogans and movements like Black Lives Matter and LGBT flags.

This isn’t Marxism, this isn’t communism, it’s liberalism going on overdrive. Even the actual “Marxists” like Chomsky and Angela Davis encourage everyone to vote for liberal candidates in November. You’re fighting a false spectre, liberalism is why progressivism is swallowing the youth of the world, not Marxism.

Why does everyone feel entitled to a political opinion? Why is everyone in this thread so fucking retarded? What the fuck does this have to do with literature?

>>16415936

No bro those people burning down cities while flying the hammer and sickle are LIBERALS dude, no REAL communists support this shit bro

>>16415955
Agreed.

>>16415955
Praxis.

>>16415978
if they had nazi flags would you say they're not really nazis because they don't actually want the NSDAP political/economic program

>>16415889
The real meme is how wrong right wingers are about Marxism.

>>16415984
the difference of course is that national socialism can actually be implemented in real life where as communism will literally never be implemented as it exists in theory even when communists revolutionaries win.

>>16415988
Yeah it's even more fucked up than they give it credit for.

>>16415917
So the Maoist sturuggle sessions happening at cafe's around the US are "liberals"

LMAO dude if you think that is liberalism. Not a single person in that crowd even knows who John Locke is.

>>16415917
>Marxism
>Advocate for equality
How do these contradict?

>>16416012
If only you knew what is actually happening right now.

>>16416017

well Marxism advocates for seizing the means of production and completely reorganizing how a society functions, the end result of this in practice is a hyper authoritarian revolutionary government with the power to do whatever they want seizing the means of production then basically just holding on to it and trying to keep things functioning because it turns out you need to keep the lights on and the food and water coming or people get pretty pissed and the means of production dont just magically completely rearrange themselves into a functioning system over night, then you have the mass purges of the working class to try and deal with counter revolutionaries, the need to keep things working uninterrupted to prop up a functioning military for national defense. in the end you without a doubt create an unequal society with a powerful ruling class

>>16415873
I love it when /lit/ leftists pull this shit.
>that's not us, that's the radlibs
>w-we aren't pro tranny, we still care about class issues
You guys either have even less of a voice than the alt-right, which makes you stifled and pathetic... or you are intentionally retreating to a more defensible position in a motte-and-bailey fashion, which makes you liars or at best obfuscators. Which is it?

>>16415917
Liberalism is marxist

>>16416118

>>16415873
>>16415917
>>16416002
intellectual dishonesty.

>NOOOOOOO NOT THE GUCCI STORES
shut the fuck up liberal

>>16416290
I'd rather have gucci stores than marxists

>>16416118
>You guys either have even less of a voice than the alt-right, which makes you stifled and pathetic

You got it right the first time. The Left is dead.

>>16415917
>Even the actual “Marxists” like Chomsky and Angela Davis encourage everyone to vote for liberal candidates in November.

Dunno about Angela Davis, but Chomsky's literally going "vote Biden or we die of climate change/nuclear war". He should be enjoying his last years in blissful indifference content with the thought that life is overrated and many people want it to end anyway, but I understand why he's saying "we're not voting for Biden, we're voting against Trump".

>>16415830
But WHERE are the actual marxists?
It's funny because through a curious irony if you read the World Socialist Website (wsws.org) it is more "based" than nearly all the manufactured leftism presented for common access and controlled by the major tech companies. The WSWS destroys the pseudo-left more completely than anyone on the right could ever wish. And while the WSWS (and the Committee of the Fourth International it represents) tacitly supportss BLM, they do so because it is an expression of outrage in the working class, who in no small part happen to be black. Not because of the self-serving divisive reasons presented by capitalist ideological instruments such as the New York Times or Washington Post.

>>16415830
Ayo we gonna elect a woman AND a POC to the supreme court nah mean?!

>>16415984
Wouldn't they be neo-nazis? I don't mind calling them neo-commies. I still think Marx would have died in the gulag had he lived in the USSR though.

>>16416118
>You guys either have even less of a voice than the alt-right
Which is exactly what he said. It's literally ~50 words, how are you incapable of sustaining attention for that? How much time do you spend on the internet per day, and for how long have you done so? 50 words mate.

>>16415830
Context of Zizek quote is marxists in the universities. You're speaking about something else.

Name one post-modern neo-marxist influential intellectual, and in particular, show me where the marxism is.

>>16415936
Why can't you stop crying and seethe cope dilate?

Why is dumb shit like this half of the posts on this shithole board?

>>16415830
Wasn't Zizek specifically asking about Marxist academics? They aren't that many that fit that label well. A few economists (Harvey, Wolff) stand out, but among philosophers and the like you mostly get vague versions that have little to do with Marx.

>>16416307
I’ve got a Gucci belt, it’s pretty nice. I sometimes considering just getting rid of all my old clothes and buying nicer ones, but I never have the time

>>16415830
>Self proclaimed Marxists are causing billions of dollars of damage with the backing of every corporation on the planet whilst directly funding the DNC.

That doesn't sound very Marxist to me.

>>16416355
no mods

>>16416356
Wolff is a tard-ass

>>16416118
I really don't understand how any of you can look at these middle-class teenage white girls posting woke shit on instagram and genuinely think that there's a threat of "Marxism." This is literally the demographic that is making the most noise on the Left this year; bourgeois middle class urbanites that do TikTok dances and watch Netflix all day, making memes about communism while knowing absolutely nothing about Marx. They're liberals with a new coat of paint to make themselves seem revolutionary against a system they hate but don't quite understand how to get out of yet.

>>16416490
Maybe it's because of all the riots.

>>16416494
riots that were overwhelmingly partaken in by liberal normies that want freedom and equality under liberalism, yeah. scrawny androgynous antifa degenerates in portland are not a threat to the system, they're the most laughable people i've ever fucking seen, the average person just wants to wave BLM and LGBT flags alongside their favorite celebrities

>>16416490
Those middle class zoomer idiots are influencing everyone. The next generation of leaders and adults.
There's nothing about a widespread meme and idea amongst the youngsters that is insignificant.
It is the idea that is creating deep resonance within the collective psyche of netizens, which holds power that can sway a whole nation like the last election.
It's been the same since the 70s with the hippy movement.
Idiots can change the world too.

>>16416517
They're not a threat to "the system", but I shouldn't have to explain to you why people don't like getting assaulted or have their possessions destroyed just because they're not nigger supremacists.

>>16415830
try harder next time /pol/

>>16415830
>OP doesn't understand marxism for the 1000th time

"Totalitarianism is not only hell, but all the dream of paradise-- the age-old dream of a world where everybody would live in harmony, united by a single common will and faith, without secrets from one another. Andre Breton, too, dreamed of this paradise when he talked about the glass house in which he longed to live. If totalitarianism did not exploit these archetypes, which are deep inside us all and rooted deep in all religions, it could never attract so many people, especially during the early phases of its existence. Once the dream of paradise starts to turn into reality, however, here and there people begin to crop up who stand in its way. and so the rulers of paradise must build a little gulag on the side of Eden. In the course of time this gulag grows ever bigger and more perfect, while the adjoining paradise gets even smaller and poorer."
-Milan Kundera

>>16416541
Yes, naturally. Perhaps speaking in ebonics would facilitate the expediency of communication.

>>16416518
I'm not saying that they aren't a threat, I am saying that they're being widely misconstrued as Marxists or radicals. No. This is just the next stage in liberalism capturing the youth of the world, a generation born and raised in technological decadence like we've never seen before. They have no culture, they have no national identity, they don't care for their families, their lifestyles are regurgitated from what they experience online, and they hardly know who they are to begin with. Millennials and Zoomers are the Last Men of history if we ever imagined them, and it just so happens that Leftism is what they discover to validate their weaknesses. The Left used to be about material analysis, about communism, about genuine radicalism that killed millions, but as you point out, it hasn't been that way since the 60s. This is what the Left is now, just pink libertarianism.

>/lit/ Marxists on damage control insisting it is they who are the true heirs to Lenin and exactly what Marx had in mind

>>16416576
there's also a 100% chance they look like this, while simultaneously claiming that people who look like this "aren't real marxists"

>>16416576
>its another post collage of leftist voters, who look average
>the same could be done for literally any group of people by cherrypicking bad photos or gatherings of slightly awkward people
>altright faggots feel good about themselves, despite getting most of their information from fucking 4chins
I hate modern american politics and how everything has become shit. USA truly is the most postmodern country in the world, and the conservatives are the fucking worst.
They're electing literal memes like Qanon followers into parliament.

>>16415889
>can't disagree because disagreeing is now a meme
wow this is a high iq discussion is a very high iq thread

>>16416604
Cry more you little fucking bitch because you're going to do a fuck load more of it on election night and the next 4 years

>>16416604
That's something called Marxist University and those are the students. Don't get your panties in a twist just because you undoubtedly look like one of them.

>>16415830
Imagine posting this, he literally expanded on this in the fucking debate so that you couldn't possibly misunderstsnd, yet you did.

>>16416002
Imagine believing this

>>16416612
You memed yourselves into a corner by no true scotsmanning too hard for too long.

>>16416587
The vanguard of intellectualism

>>16416587
Wld rek Beck/10

>>16416587
dios mio

>>16416651
whats wrong with the statement? real (insert ideology) is what happens when real people take power in real life, national socialists actually took power and actually instituted national socialist policy, when communists take power there is virtually no chance your precious theoretical fantasy will actually be implemented, thus the theory is not what "real communism" is and you dont get to use that as a scapegoat

>>16416355
I'm immensely enjoying burgerpolitics and must thank the Jannies for this entertainment

But most of the BLM really aren't Marxist, you get a few maoist settlerites in the high ranks, those might begrudgingly aknowledge Marx despite him being a disgusting whitoid, and then you have crowds of people who think that fight for human rights, equality etc. are not partisan issues, but matters of "basic human decency."

American democracy is a cia psych-op

>>16416613
>>16416626
I think conservatives care so much about how everyone else lives and their ideology, because if they ever did any introspection they would find out how absolutely stupid and deranged their thinking is.
One minute of introspection is all it would take to realize how fucking asinine it is to base your political beliefs around a fucking tripfag on 4chins, let alone vote someone into parliament who thinks some autist calling himself Q holds any valid information.

>>16416744
Well I did tell you to cry more

>>16416651
NS was actually successfully implemented, while attempts to implement communism always end up being a mongrel form of authoritarian capitalism.

>>16416744
“The conservatives are fools: They whine about the decay of traditional values, yet they enthusiastically support technological progress and economic growth. Apparently it never occurs to them that you can't make rapid, drastic changes in the technology and the economy of a society without causing rapid changes in all other aspects of the society as well, and that such rapid changes inevitably break down traditional values”- Ted Kaczynski

>>16416775
Unironically based quote by Ted.
Conservatism today is nothing, but a mix of roleplayers wanting "traditional values", and rich people using these arbitrary values as justification for not paying taxes.

>>16415830
>whilst
DROPPED

>>16415873
Sure they are. They're just not Orthodox Marxists, they're Social Marxists ("Cultural Marxists"), the antithesis of Social Darwinists.

>>16416775
eeh he's kind of half retarded half right, technological and economic growth can go hand in hand with important traditional values, but he's right in the sense that American style conservatives sure as fuck aren't doing anything to make that possible. all in all i just shiggy diggy you people dont take this return to monke shit seriously

>>16415917
>>16416328
Davis is a prime example of how pathetic the left has always been desu.
Her sole achievement was gaslighting a black criminal's kid brother into suicide by cop and arming him, informing said criminal of his death and then arming him and subsequently fleeing to Cuba before being welcomed back into a tenured position by Democrat Liberals.

>>16416334
>working class
BLM protests are overwhelmingly lumpen or upper class with little inbetween.

>>16415830
My dream is to find just one rightoid who has a basic understanding of reality. Everyday we have this thread and we explained it to you many times that Marxism is not Liberalism but you refuse to believe it because it will destroy you fantasy world.

>>16416907
*your

>>16416907
Dream more roastie

>>16416075
Unironically this

>>16416370
As a matter of fact, it does sound very marxist. Remember who funded the bolshevik revolutions.

>>16416823
social Marxists cannot by definition be Marxists because Marxism>>16415830
>Self proclaimed Marxists are causing billions of dollars of damage with the backing of every corporation on the planet whilst directly funding the DNC.
They can proclaim themselves whatever they want, they’re still not Marxists if they’re liberals obsessed with idpol. You cannot be a marxist if you put focus on racial issues, the conceptual basis ceases to function regardless of the inevitable later failures from inability to properly grasp reality

>>16416907
It makes sense that the only people dumb enough to unironically be marxists are mentally ill trannies. Not even liberals look as disgusting as you freaks.

>>16415984
I would, yes.
>>16415955
They might be a certain kind of communist/socialist given how vague those terms can be, but by definition they cannot be Marxists if they emphasise those issues of identity. Marxism is also bad, but blaming the current instability on Marxism is a cop-out for the ideologically liberal who don’t wish to admit that the flaws causing this chaos are far more fundamental than just Marxism.

>>16416954
No, it is quite literally as simple as "marxists are running around rioting and looting".
All of the "chaos" and "instability" marxists are causing would stop if the marxists stopped doing that.

You people just don't get it. "It's not real Marxism!" It's not Marxism at all! Marxism isn't just a flag or an aesthetic, it's a well defined ideology and no one in the western "Marxist" social revolutionary movement follows it today. In other words, yes, it isn't real Marxism and yes, the radlibs on the streets are NOT Marxists. Similarly, most Nazis today are not Nazis, just like most fascists are not fascists. The politicians and the mainstream only treat people as "communist" or "fascist" radicals respectively when there is something to gain. Neither group follows the theory or the practice of either ideology. It's just spectacle for brainlets.

>>16416356
Is it even possible to name influent academics anymore? It seems to me that unknown professors are the driving force behind academics influence nowadays, there's really no one standing out

>>16416993
There's Jordan Peterson, whatever that implies about the quality of academia.

>>16417005
That's only a celebrity

>>16416950
Oh damn I wish I can be an alfa übermensch like you guys!
On the side note I am happy that you at least know the difference between liberals and marxists. Thank you for that anon, I will leave you a cookie

>>16416587
ad hominem is not a fallacy
shit this ugly is always going to be wrong

>>16415873
>>16415917
This is pure gaslighting

>>16416993
I heard 90% of Murican sociologists describe themselves as marxists.

>>16417013
The fact that collage is the best you can come up with in the internet age should tell you which side is more cringe. You don't even have to cherry pick to see that the average leftist is a disgusting tranny.

>people make collages of ugly people to undermine ideologies
>they don't realize they're only undermining US disgusting culture
OH NO NONO

>>16417096
I sincerely doubt leftists in European countries look any less faggier.

>>16415830
Call back when they start to expropriate those corporations.

>>16417120
You're mostly correct, though they tend to not be obese as often. It also depends on the country. In Germany, apparently weirdly coloured hair dye is a "normal", non-leftist thing.

>>16416587
>every single person arrested in portland is an absolute subhuman mystery meat troglodyte
>out of the three people shot at kenosha, all three were felons, two were jews, one was a domestic abuser, one was a convicted pedophile
But yeah these people are actually all just radical liberals not leftists even though we share 99% of the same opinions and they are totally not exemplary of leftists on the whole even though every group of leftists on the planet no matter how precisely defined is always a collection of status-chasing bottom-feeding circus freak degenerates.

>>16415873
>USSR literally spread Marxism to the west
LOL they not real

>>16417120
Western Europe maybe, in the east leftists are mostly boomers going on how everything was better "back then".

>>16417096
With this I can agree
>>16417056
I don't really have pictures of weird looking people on my computer. The point of my provocation was to show you that you have weird looking people too. The fat woman has a hillary shirt, I thought you know the difference. I am going to take back your cookie. Maybe your ideology is about memes and hating black people I don't really know, but leftism is about understanding and improving society I don't care how one looks if she/he has a good point.
>>16417120
Europe unfortunately is very much Americanized but still less retarded I would say

>>16417166
Russians have been spreading both far left and far right shit for the last 30 years. Their goal is not really to have one side triumph, but rather to cause discord.

>>16417161
Anon, it really doesn't matter what they may think they are, they are too stupid to know what they are.
>>16417166
Yuri Bezmenov was a dumb, lying hack who had a grudge against the USSR because they didn't let him get married to an Indian girl.

Getting modern people to give up their precious race issues seems fucking impossible. Have fun with your mutt hordes euros this is your future

>>16417223
Why would you want someone to give up their previous race issues?

>>16417223
The destruction of a race is the destruction of life itself

>>16415830
Amerimutt idpol was banned from Marxist circles by the KM himself, though. Also you are forgetting about the second line, which was "Where do you see any elements of Marxism in it?".

>>16415936
>if i just ignore it will go away

>>16415830
>>16415889
>>16416144
>with the backing of every corporation on the planet
yea!!! putting rainbow stickers on their logos really makes them totally marxist dude!!11 they really mean it!! fucking commies are everywhere bro!!

>>16417464
are you upset that none of your buzzwords ever caught on?

>>16416347
The context of the quote is that zizek says he knows who they are and he doesn't like them either.
Which is ignored by every faggot on this board for some reason.

>>16416144
This is a room temperature iq thing to say. They stem from the same source (enlightenment universalist egalitarianism) but they are not the same. They’re both shit though

>>16415988
this, it's pathetic. marx has nothing to do with the left either by the way, if you're one of those leftist communist you are pathetic as well. if there is a state, if there is money, then it's not communism. that marx in his later years started developping a theory of socialist reform does not invalidate his ealier works, it simply shows that he himself has been swallowed by capital and the eternal movement. fortunately we have debord and kaczynski who did not make the same mistake.

>>16417166
the KGB is a cybernetic node of capital, just as the CIA, just as america, just as the USSR are. there isn't a single difference between mao's china, lenin's russia and reagan's america. fortunately for my mental health I reside in France where there are still orthodox marx readers who are not politicized, who did not fall for academia's récupération of Marx either.

I spend half my time on /lit/ explaining to brainwashed anglos what Marx's works entails, yet I don't even believe in communist teleology lmao. Anglos are beyond help desu, sensationalists get the rope.

>>16415917
don't bother with these swines. the extreme irony is that it is jewish banker themselves, in 1913, under the false disguise of the internationalist communist party of britain, who consciously injected notions of sexual and racial equality to EXPLICITLY neuter class struggle. the redpilled hordes are literally falling for jewish tricks kek. but it doesn't even matter that jewish bankers did so, if it weren't them it would've been someone else. just read early marx.

>>16417704
>there isn't a single difference between mao's china, lenin's russia and reagan's america.
Do you mean, in terms of their intelligence/defence agencies? If so, I think you might be wrong.
Or do you mean in terms of the quality of life of the average citizen? If so, you're definitely wrong.

>>16417704
>if there is a state, if there is money, then it's not communism.
Do you realize how idiotic this is? Even a gradeschooler can figure out this won't work. Real communism has never been tried because it's a contradiction. I can't believe there are people stupid enough to believe a stateless society with a no-currency economy can work.

>>16417744
>I can't believe there are people stupid enough to believe a stateless society with a no-currency economy can work.
I cant believe there are people stupid enough to forget that humanity started with stateless societies with no currency.

Material conditions are what decides whatever moneyless societies evolve or fade away. Marxism is the position that development of material conditions will allow mankind to return back to those moneyless societies.

>>16417807
you should probably look up "hierarchy of needs" to see why that's retarded

>>16415830
I'm sorry, what book is this from? Please tell me so I can read it and participate in the discussion of this fine /lit/ thread!

>>16417807
How does more material conditions actually loop around to the status quo of societies that barely had any material conditions to speak of

I <3 literature

>>16415917
>Niggers misbehave becaise of muh poverty and muh institutional oppression, nothing to do with race
This is exactly what orthodox Marxoids argue. This is also exactly what liberals argue. It's almost as if...

>>16417737
oh my god the state of sub 140 iq retards. yes, in terms of vulgar immediacy there is a difference, obviously, I mean even an ape can see those differences LMAO. in terms of political abstraction there is none, each of them rely on the capitalist mode of production.

>>16417744
IF THERE IS A STATE, IF THERE IS MONEY, THEN IT'S NOT COMMUNISM. DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S FEASIBLE OR NOT FUCKING RETARD. COMMUNISM IS THE ABOLITION OF STATE AND MONEY. THE END.

STAR WARS IS ABOUT SPACESHIPS SHOOTING AT EACHOTHERS. IS IT REAL? NO. IS IT FEASIBLE? NO. IT'S STILL CALLED STAR WARS.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT THE STATE OF THIS FUCKING BOARD. I DON'T BELIEVE IN COMMUNIST TELEOLOGY HAVE YOU EVEN READ MY POST? FUCKING SWINE KILL YOURSELF YOU'RE TOO DUMB TO FUNCTION LMAO THIS FUCKING PLACE FUCKING ANGLOS. IM NOT A COMMUNIST ALRIGHT???? YOU UNDERSTAND THIS YOU FUCKING TRIBE MENTALITY PRIMITIVES???? ME NO PART OF RED GANG. ME NO COMMIE. BUT ME READ BOOKS AND ME NO BRAINDEAD MORALIST WHO CAN ACTUALLY ENGAGE WITH SOMETHING I DONT AGREE WITH.

by the way money and state have existed for 10,00 years. stateless, moneyless human societies have existed for 300,000 years, so you're wrong.

>>16416431
What makes you say that?

>>16417970
It's called progress sweaty

>>16415955
These dudes are a Rockefellerian CIA nigger psy-op.

>>16415873
>>16415889
>>16415917
Is neo-Marxism from the New Left.

>>16416307
How about marxist gucci stores?

>>16417166
>Bezmenov