/lit/ - Literature

What happened? Brain too small to grasp such an elementary concept as trinity?

>>16396340
>Satan-warped polytheistic religion disguised as a monotheistic religion.

>>16396373
>consubstantial.

>>16396328
When Newton went into his self imposed exhile he took to reading every bible translation and was convinced the devil came in the 4th century and invented the trinity. He didn’t say anything because he was president of Trinity College at the time.

>>16396340
>Augustine struggled all his life trying to understand trinity and, deep inside, he probably felt that it was wrong so he just left the matter to faith
>trinity is categorized as a "mystery" by catholicism
>not clear in the Bible so every knowledge about it is schizo rambling by heretical theology

>>16396328
cessation of conquest

>>16396508
t. office drone who larps as a fascist badass online

>>16396429
>hasn't read the On the Trinity statements
probably his masterpiece, anon

>>16396328
divine providence

>>16396583
Based

>>16396340
>>16396580
>>16396378
>can’t count for shit

>>16396328
Excommunicating people for suicide.
Fuck that. Where's all your love and compassion when people actually need it, huh?

MY KING

>>16396328
The only true religion is science. All hail MUSK

>>16396583
Divine Providence is better than ever from a Christian perspective.

Read Caussade, Abandonment to Divine Providence.

>>16396373
Both Torah and Koran (like the NT) assert that through God all things are possible--
Why Jews and Muslims take such pleasure in the delimitation of God's power makes it more than a little apparent that with them cultural issues prevail ultimately over the will of God. The Christian God not only *does more* but keeps more in the background, precisely why the West has been as successful as it has been, and precisely why all flock here.

>>16396328
the corny sexual ethics, the moralistic views on art, and the problem of evil are some of the big ones
Although the first two only apply to more conservative interpretations of Christianity, but this is what I grew up with so yeah

>>16396569
rent free

>>16396603
>so what if he broke a mortal law bro jesus said like be kind and shit

>>16396673
imagine not knowing who to thank

>>16396419
>protestants yet again coming to their own conclusions free of the guidance of the holy spirit and thinking they're right
wow what a phenomenon

>>16396508
>what are the frankish conquests, the crusades, the conquests of the new world, etc etc etc

>>16396712
>he broke a mortal law
what about his fuckin' family though, huh? Did they break any mortal fuckin' laws?
what kind of maniac makes "being so fucking depressed you couldn't take it anymore" a mortal sin?

>>16396569
you're not often taken seriously, are you, anon?

>>16396730
>Dude God doesnt decide over life and death, i do! Fuck you God!

>>16396718
Don't get me wrong, I admire him intensely. Still, as a Christian, the Koran can't help but feel like an extended commentary on the revelation of St. John the Divine. It would be ignorant to deny both its beauty and its power, however- and I'd never do that.

>>16396738
>Fuck you God!
yes

>>16396730
>wa wa wa i dont understand why this is bad so god is evil!
shut up you little baby redditor

>>16396677
>noooooo the bible says i cant put my dick in whatever i want to its so shit!!@

>>16396677
The problem of evil applies to every major religion, not just a conservative interpretation of christianity.

Egyptians and platonists conceived unity-trinity as well. That is why anything but these are far from truth.

>>16396746
suck on my taint

Not a reddit midwit like others here, but Jesus being very jewish at certain points in the gospels. The whole dog and crumbs comment, forbidding his followers preaching to the gentiles, criticising them in the sermon on the mount. How am I as a gentile meant to accept that when I know how immoral the jews he preached to were?

>>16396766
How did they consider it when there was no messiah figure and no concept of the Holy spirit during their time

>>16396755
precisely

>>16396767
>I have ideas like this floating around in my head

>>16396781
only when I talk to you, baby

>>16396760
Well OP asked what ruined Christianity for you, and the problem of evil is one of them. Whether other religions have the same issue is irrelevant.

>>16396328
>ITT: Things that ruined Christianity for you

It's weakness and refusal to harshly judge evil and evil doers.
Protestantism is especially guilty of this, but the Catholic church has been rotting as well.

>>16396776
Are you dumb?

>>16396815
no, just ignorant

>>16396783
I do love my taint sucked

>>16396673
>delimitation of God's power
You limit God's power because you impose humanity on your lord. Stop pretending this is your doctrine, it's a misanalysis from your theologians.

>precisely why the West has been as successful as it has been, and precisely why all flock here.
you are successful due to horrible ethics and abuse of nature you slime. Not to mention the philosophical contribution Islam had on your stupid asses. The only religion you can point to that contributed even an ounce of intellect on your shitty continent was Islam with the Islamic thinkers and translators. The Enlightenment period was the breaking away of your shitty polytheistic backwater religion and instead of going to God, you guys went to your own intellect. What a fucking miracle, that turned out so freaking great. No wonder the world is as it is right now, the West fucked it all up,

>>16396328
>Joseph was cucked.
>Christianity is the cuckest of all religions
>Worship the weak
>Slave morality
>Countless contradictions
>Kike on a stick.

Preacher delivered the Gospel, then immediately started trying to twist the words to suit his political agenda in his homily. I'll pass, thank you.

>>16396852
I agree, pseuds make it hard to discuss the word of our Lord Julius Caesar

>>16396669
ok

>>16396328
So you're protestant?

>things that ruined christianity for you
Paul
Christians

>>16396766
the triune shape and abstraction is definitely attractive, but sorry to break it to you, monotheism is way more widespread. Read the Origin of the Idea of God.

>>16396834
The religion doesn't come from the recitation of an angel in a cave; the religion comes from God as a man. I will not burden you anymore with my 'slime' presence. Enjoy your stay.

>>16397097
wrong, again

>>16397113
You take back the 'slime' comment?
How good of you

>>16397130
typical slimy refracted telescopy

>>16397164
Oh, tunnel vision- I see (if narrowly)
Actually I'm reading the Koran right now and really enjoying it; I think it's a wonderful book.

>>16397215
I think you’re a wonderful book

The fact that Yahweh is an even bigger asshole than any polytheistic god ever could be

>>16397003
Not all conceptions of monotheistm are metaphysically sophisticated as the idea of unity-trinity.

>>16396819
Ah ok anon read about damascius

>>16397222
Thanks, and here's to a fine day
Allah bless you

>>16396328
This is niggardly, I'm not a christian and even I can understand what the trinity is about.

you have only one locus of attention, your own perceiving Soul-Consciousness. God is more powerful then you are and is able to have as many locii as he pleases, so simultaneously he was playing the game as Father (in heaven) and Perceiving-Being as the Father (who is in heaven and is a Creator-mantainer), playing the game as Christ and Perceiving-Being Christ, i.e alive from Christ's perspective, which shares Being with God but not necessarily his Absolute Mind as Christ was a human (although a very enlightened human-God that being God could also receive information directly from the Father) and finally, God is also at all times playing the Game as Holy Spirit, who sees and feels all you see and feel and also everything from the perspective of all things. It gets a bit jumbled because our language is simple compared to God's own but there is nothing in there that would ruin it, not even mysterious, it is a mystery to the extent it is inconceivable from our human perspective

>>16397268
Allah you

>>16396328
>christians admitting they aren't logic ruined christianity for you
why did you get into christianity in the first place then? if this "ruined" it for you, then you misunderstood faith to begin with

>>16396328
As a Christian, pacifism and Joseph being a cuck are the two things I struggle the most with. Just being totally honest.

>>16397273
Problems really come in when you concieve God as simple, indivisible, which is necessary for many proofs of his existence.

>>16397311
Also, circumcision. That the creator of mankind would ask men to mutilate themselves and change what he created is just batshit to me.

>>16396328
I think it focuses on sin too much.
In my view, knowing God and dedicating your actions to Him doesn't enable sin.
Who needs to know the types of sins and their punishments if all you need is to find God?

>>16397320
it is still one entity - an Absolute one, as well as Infinite (infinity here defined as "the infinity that can exist in Creation" i.e contained within Creation, there is no way to know if God is infinite from his perspective, He is however from the perspective of any created thing)

>>16397404
How doesn't it have parts though? Either the persons of the trinity are really God, in which case they are parts of it, or they aren't.
I'm not saying it's a real contradiction ; I want to read your answer.

>>16397456
In the early days of the homo sapient there ruled a hive, led by a queen. All men were subject, all beings a slave to the clockwork. Then man rebelled and in his heart he knew only Man could rule. This is the secret. The holy trinity is the symbol of this secret on the patriarchal lineage. Women cannot rule, they must not rule. You see this matriarchic reflex come time and time again, always culminating in the fall of everything.
“Not peace but a sword”

>>16396328
I’m not a Christian but I don’t understand why the trinity upsets people

>>16397507
kek I was expecting natural theology not schizoposting.

>>16397552
Because they either can't understand it or dislike it as cryptopagan, I think.

Realizing Christianity is a globalist, universalist social justice ideology and always has been.

>>16397994
Oh yeah, I forgot the most important part. The fact that it simply isn't true.

>>16396328
Everything except the direct quotes from Jesus

>>16396328
When I realized that it's just a dialect of sumerian philosophy. Mary is not a virgin and came from a noble rich family. I don't know if joseph is the real father who came from a rival family, or a cuck from the street. It's a shakespeare themed story. He did write the king james bible, so it's not a surprise. There is more to it, but I don't want it to get /x/ related.

>>16398242
shakespeare was a transwoman of color

>>16397273
haven't even read your post but 100% guaranteed thats a heresy

>>16398242
>There is more to it, but I don't want it to get /x/ related.
Do it pussy.

Because his spiteful peabrained anti-spiritual anti-strength anti-hierarchal anti-culture anti-nature anti-science anti-magic anti-esoteric anti-discussion anti-thinking followers have convinced me not to.

We know about things by way of the distinctions amongst those things. Basing our perceived existence and destiny on an abstraction that forcefully denies all other routes and explanations to the truth is the ultimate thing which separates us from God, and thereby the Grandfather of Marxism and destructive ideology.

You don't go around to all the various distinct cultures on earth and angrily destroy their unique ladders to the divine and then claim you helped them find God. You've thereby severed religion and state and fractured the sacred and ancient cultural foundations they worked upon since they first dawned as a people. The collective is now by default governed by more atheistic principles than the ones they had developed before because they could never fully adopt "Christian culture" even if it made sense which it doesn't. The other horrible side effect of this is that as the sciences progress naturally and healthily they challenge your retarded dogmatic abstraction which you call a truth and you make yourself and other religious people seem retarded. You then get ostracized and actively diminished in a world where science and states are centuries or even millennia detached from any notions of God or Religiosity that could have made sense. Then you are left with your Godless world, your uncharitable, spiritually decadent mulatto tranny hellscape devoid of meaning.

Nietzsche was right, God is dead, and the Christians killed him. And now their "greatest ally" the Jews are delivering the final and ugliest blows of spiritual decay.

>hurr durr but the Jews hate Christianity

Jews can hate Christianity all they want but what they fear more than people becoming Christian is if half of the planet were to rediscover their (direct or indirect)Pagan roots and to see the spark of true divine inspiration rise up and return mankind to his natural state of great power, piercing consciousness and boldly meaningful endeavors and existence that firmly erase human anguish from existence.

Christianity is objectively a low hanging fruit end times religion. If you're so retarded that the only spiritual path you can manage is that God ultimately loves everything and placeboing yourself into thinking he'll coddle you for eternity then fine but don't expect any higher ways of life or solutions to emerge from such selfish idiocy and defeatist cowardice.

>>16397603
That wasn't me mate.
To answer this:
>How doesn't it have parts though? Either the persons of the trinity are really God, in which case they are parts of it, or they aren't.
>I'm not saying it's a real contradiction ; I want to read your answer.
that is a good point, and although I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "having parts" (God has all parts) I would say that there IS mystery to the extent that, we not being omniscient-omnipresence, can not conceive of omniscience-omnipresence.

Like, God being omnipresent means that right here, right now, he shares your Consciousness too - he sees the exact same representation as you do, shares your entire phenomenal field and can also feel all you feel and hear your thoughts. He is for all effects and purposes "living your life" (and all others) in real time, with you. He is able to have multiple locus of attention. This btw is why the Bible says in psalms and other scripture that "God walks" with us, like, he is supposed to literally walk in you, see with you, feel and think with you. He is, however, outside of Creation and uncreated, which means his Consciousness (inconceivable) is not only World-Consciousness but God-Consciousness (transcendeing the World). You see how the mystery is not "having parts but being One" but rather "being distinct from Creation and yet having Creation contained within him"?

>>16398378
You're living in the backwash of 'such self serving idiocy and defeatist cowardice' and are too dumb to see that what you now bewail the demise of was in fact the up-building of what you *also* now decry.... You're of a thoroughly divided mind without at all being able to perceive it and tl;dr a passionately glib but ultimately retarded shitpost. Other than that I quite enjoyed it: it was fun: thanks.

Internet "Christians"

Normal parents that didn't force religious BS on me and having a strong enough will to avoid the demagogue traps. Also, this >>16397986

>>16396328
Its called the "mystery" of the trinity, not the logicly sound fact of the trinity you monkey

>>16396328
The trinity is like the point in Scientology where they start talking about space aliens. If you're still on board after that, they got you hooked for life.

>>16398766
You'll never pass

>I like to spend hours watching a screen pretending to be a character in a fictional world doing random shit but I can’t ‘into’ this foundational philosophy written thousands of years ago because it’s literally not true

>>16399250
I always 'play,' anon
But you're wise to..

>>16398766
>You're living in the backwash of 'such self serving idiocy and defeatist cowardice' and are too dumb to see that what you now bewail the demise of was in fact the up-building of what you *also* now decry
100%

>>16396328
>not being able to understand indo european triad spirituality

>>16396730
Suicide is a conscious choice.
If you have come to the end of your rope, there are options other than tying a noose there.

>>16398378
>"end times religion"
>occupies Europe for just shy of 2,000 years without event
>mass abandonment of it hastens the apparent destruction of mankind
Many words to convey little thought, pagan-of-convenience.

>>16399250
>my GPA says I’m smart

>>16399172
The statement "3=1" is not a 'mystery', dumbass. It's just a falsehood.

>>16399250
Meanwhile you pass as a bitch with flying colors.

>>16399431
>1/3+1/3+1/3=1
>no shut up thats 3 things being 1 thing
Silence, fag

>>16396760
>The problem of evil applies to every major religion

i thought buddha solved that one

>>16399431
>the atom can’t be made of three different particles

>>16396738
>Fuck you God!
spot on

>>16399475
>I hate the God that i am certain isn’t real

>>16396328
ITT: people who havent read fear and trembling and dont know what faith is
Once again with the kierkefilter

>ctrl f
>no saul of tarsus

/lit/ is circling the drain i see

>>16399449
Blatant heresy. Enjoy that lake of fire, sinner.

>>16399440
Heresy. You just earned yourself an eternity of suffering.

>>16399495
>I can be funny

>>16399504
>science is specifically the abuse of it

>>16399487
It's kind of like how you hate Voldemort, kiddo.

>>16399505
You won't be laughing when your flesh comes off in sheets. Over and over again.

>>16399509
>Harry Potter

>>16399392
Was paganism found in ascending culture or decaying culture like Christianity.

Paganism never had any secular revolts to re-liberate mankind because it was choked out by dogma like Christian europe.

You're kidding yourself if you think the trend of Christendom is anything other than the decay of the European ideal. Any of the mechanisms that made Christendom work in Europe were adapted from the Roman-Germanic world, all the foreign desert shit was and still is unpalatable for the European people and the less it's used the better we've managed.

You're thinking in a materialist vacuum if you think it was not sheer coincidence by means of the Faustian spirit of Europe that lead to it's technical progress. Christianity had nothing to do with it but the spiritual degradation of the upper and lower castes giving a more materialist prospective attitude if anything.

>>16399518
>scaring people doesn’t work

>>16399524
I'm pretty sure that's the protagonist, asshat. But nice try.

>>16396328

No strong and independent women. The Bible is in its entirety is misogynistic and endorsing of masculine toxicity. Also no trans rights.

>>16399531
It didn't prevent you from committing heresy. Now infinite pain is your destiny.

>>16399532
>My Harry Potter reference is sufficient to prove my point

>>16399541
>I am a Christian

>>16399542
>The Bible endorses toxic masculinity

>>16399547
I put it in language you can understand, little buddy.

>>16399547
>>16399554
>>16399562
Lmao greentextfag is going all out

>>16399571
>i am here to help

>>16396328
>idolatry
>transcendentalism
>scholastic dialectics, aka non-jewish critical theory
>pyramidal scam structure
>paedophilia
>being postjewish garbage
>being refuted by protestantism, the most retarded religious revisionism after buddhist theoretical diasphora
>etc

>>16399578
>I am laughing out loud

>>16399542
>Mary wasn’t a strong woman

>>16396328
>Christ is neither more man than God, nor more God than man
>the Word made flesh
Simple as, anything else is just an early Church heresy. What really fucks me up are the veggie tales letters.

>>16398778
xo

>>16396328
God "is" the son, just as an apple "is" red. That doesn't mean an apple is only redness, though, just as god being the son certainly does not necessitate god only be the son. The holy spirit, the father, and the son are characteristics of God. They are properties that express the divine essence of God. And, it is clear that, if God (or divine essence, which is the same) were to be changed in any way, that each expression would also have to change.

>>16399525
>your success is chance, mine (what little there is to be drawn upon) was planned
The same argument every time from a thousand different mouths of a thousand different men who fail to live up to a single pagan ideal, let alone a Christian one.
The pagans converted to Christianity. Why was this?
If you answer 'oppressing might,' why was Christendom mightier than they?

>>16399630
She wasn't strong enough to say no to a Roman soldier.

>>16399921
>le Roman bastard meme
This flaccid argument has failed for thousands of years. Why would it work coming from your mouth, you feckless weakling?

>>16399926
Cope.

>>16399933
No you.

A question for christians: wouldn't jesus and his father actually have a holy spirit (a religious mode of thought), and without it, not be relevant? The son is thinking with a holy spirit. But clearly, this has no bearing on his godliness according to the trinity. Would a degenerate, sinful jesus still be godly? The trinity, in its current form, should necessitate a yes.

>>16399926
your religion appropriated the word of the son of a lying whore. I believe you are the weak one here.

>>16399660
Father: God as creator
Son: God as body
Spirit: God as mind
God is an essence with each as a property.

>>16399961
>I’m strong

>>16399961
Hard words, but we all know you're a narrow-wristed edgelord faggot looking to raise a fuss for the dopamine hit of negative attention. Only a timestamped physique will disprove this, but you won't, for the reasons aforementioned.

>>16399921
>everyone shares my fantasies

>>16396328
I like Christianity better than other religions but the fig tree and the attack on the money-lenders send a bit of a mixed message. As does when he says 'I bring a sword' or whatever it is. The point to me of Christianity was 'resist not evil', to attack nothing and nobody ever. Maybe I misinterpreted the religion

>>16399992
Heresy.

>>16400000
weak digits

>>16400022
The sword bit was meant metaphorically. It means Jesus sees himself as a homewrecker.

>>16400043
>I’m not pathetic

>>16400022
The parable of the fig tree is a metaphor for God's judgement of wicked families, races, or societies, that particular tree was simply the medium.
>>16400044 is right about the sword thing. The Christian message was and apparently still is extremely polarizing.
Christ struck and drove out the merchants, He didn't kill them. The wicked are capable of repentance and should be led to goodness seems more in line with the overarching moral.

>>16398378
Christianity isn't anti-hierarchical. It says that all men are equal before God, but that is obvious, since they are equal before judgement, and god is the only means of true judgement in Christianity, therefore they stand necessarily as equal before judgement. They are in no way equal after judgement. If they were, heaven and hell would be contradictory and absurd ideas. Nor is it anti-strength. The strong are those that can give the most, and charity is a clear virtue in christianity. The meek are the ones that inherit the earth not because christianity praises meekness, but because the strong give the earth to the meek, simply because they are just that wealthy.

>>16399992
that's modalism which is heresy. tertullian acknowledged that the trinity was illogical, trying to explain it at all is heresy

>>16400069
The first on earth will be last in the kingdom of heaven, and the last will be first.

>>16399222
this is actually a good metaphor im gonna steal it, but i will say i think the metaphorical believing in "space aliens" is called for in a universe that can't sensibly not be dissected further at any given point. and that it's basically nonsense to not extrapolate some larger belief system out of the knowledge that we have i.e. i've never heard a good rebuttal against C.S. Lewis's "you can't go on seeing through things forever" argument.

>>16400085
Yes, and the meaning of this is apparent to those with more than one step in their cognition. Those who buy material wealth and earthly power with sin will be in greatest danger of God's judgement.
Find me a just and righteous millionaire.

>>16396328
I always pictured is as a 4th dimensional concept. For example, the Teseract, 4D cube, is a cube moving through another dimension. All the lines are the same length and all the angles are the same angles. To put it simply, it's a cube being moved through another cube without touching. The same way as the father, the son, and the holy spirit being independent of each other, but all part of the same concept. God.

>>16400200
Heresy.

Turning 16 years old, a long time ago...

Nowadays, I realize Christianity was true all along. Pic related.

>>16400200
yup thats heresy buddy take your mystic shit elsewhere

>>16400076
Triple aspect theory is the only way to make sense of it. If you don't want to make sense of it, then as a message it has no content, and one might as well replace it with "hsjsgfdhsjkak!^^@%@^". Without it, two things equalling the same thing would not be the equals of eachother, which is absurd because it makes the idea of equality useless since it is misused.

>>16400016
Some random soldier filled up Mary's fucktunnel with Roman spunk, and a new religion was born.

>>16400016
The one that worships a man is calling me a faggot. Negative attention from someone like you is enjoyable, though. I would feel insulted if you liked me. Though I think you already do like me, since you steered the conversation into homosexuality and wanting to see a shirtless picture of me.

>>16400348
>I’m not a homosexual

>>16396328
It's easy.
Think of God, the immutable source and reason for everything, as an object class. God's timelessness doesn't allow for change and experience in the human sense as He is beyond our comprehension (and beyond the physicsl realm). He permeates everything anyways, he's the fabric and the content, the meaning and the end.
In order to act in our world, in order to share our experience and suffering, he instantiated himself in three separate entities: God the Father who provides guidance, the Son as an example to humanity, the Spirit as the faith itself. I deliberately used very simple terms.

>>16396595
>Can't grasp the concept of an apple cut into 3 slices being the same fucking apple just 3 different facets of it.

>>16396730
You see, by ending your own life you can't really confess and absolve yourself of the sin that is murder can you?

>>16401965
Not quite.

When the scriptures (and it's not only the Christian ones) talk about man being created in "God's image", the image they talk of is Christ.

The Holy Spirit is how God interacts with the world.

>>16402000
>the image they talk of is Christ.
Delusional

>>16401975
>God can divided
Might as well call yourselves pagans.

If gid exists, then killing good guys is good, because they go to heaven and will be happy. And killing bad guys is bad, bc theyll go to hell and be unhappy. So, killing somebody is like self-sacrifice, you make yourself a sinner so the good guy goes to heaven.

>All these brainlets thinking God, the most powerful entity that could exist, would be one person

Lmao

>>16396340
>he thinks chriatians invented the trinity
Lel
>>16396328
Chriarianity and Judaism have plagiarized Greek philosophy and mysticism so much

>>16402036
If he is omnipotent, he can be anything.

>>16402010
> Delusional
Who? You? Probably, considering you can't even into basic logic.

>>16402059
Then He can be a trinity.

>>16402063
This means he can be Heptimity as well.

>>16402073

Proof

>>16402060
Those are baseless assertions not concrete in scriptural analysis.

Proof that the trinity is incoherent:

1. The Father is God (doctrine of the Trinity)
2. The Son is God (doctrine of the Trinity)
3. There is one God (doctrine of the Trinity)
4. Therefore, Son = Father (1, 2, 3)
5. Son =/= Father (doctrine of the Trinity; also, Jesus was incarnated, not the Father, therefore there is at least differing property between them so they are not the same).
(4, 5) leads to a contradiction, so we need to deny either points (1), (2), (3) or (5). Since denying any of them would deny the doctrine of the Trinity, we must deny the doctrine of the Trinity.

>>16402122
If god is omnipotent, he can break the laws of logic.

You cannot have a concept such as a being whose essence is his existence without a trinity concept arising, it exists, it contains its existence (knowledge), it perceives the knowledge of its existence(knowledge of knowledge, as the necessary being is eternal all of these faces appear at once and cannot be distinguished by nature, its the problem for Islam but not for Christians, plotinus thought I think that the self knowledge (nous) emanates from the one like light from the sun, the one is in a different sphere than nous, having problems explaining creation from nothing and the omnipotent being having a will he separates the two to explain motion in the universe, Christians explain creation is from nothing, matter for plotinus is the furthest object from the one, the one wills nothing as it is perfect, but nous emenating from the one seeks to know the perfection of the one, the inflated nous descends into the world soul( I think) and the inflated soul plunges into matter, the idea that a human mind is a misplaced piece of nous is debateable, the image of God is a well known doctrine, read Augustine on the trinity to get a good perspective on it

>>16396520
Im no christian, but what makes you think that a day for god is the same as a day for us?

>>16402134
No, if there is at least one true contradiction, it follows that all contradictions and all statements are true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_explosion
If all statements are true, it would mean that "Trinity is false" is also true.
You should also be aware that no serious theologian in history has ever admitted that God can cause contradictions (since contradictions are nonsense).
The statement "God can do all things" is true, because "all things" means anything that is coherent, to say that "God can cause '1=2'", would be identical to saying "God can cause 'adnjasdnjasdnasdjnasdj'', '1=2' is equivalent to nonsense, so saying God can't cause contradictions is not a limit to God's omnipotence.

>>16402148
God can make everything non-contradictory.

>>16402148
He can make "Trinity is false" and "Trinity is true" true and non-contradictory at the same time if he is omnipotent. Also, he can do "ajahajahbahhajabcwowobeiwqwrw@%*%".

>>16402165
Based Averroist

>>16402161
>>16402165
So this is the power of Christian theology, as Avicenna once said, "Anyone who denies the law of non-contradiction should be beaten and burned until he admits that to be beaten is not the same as not to be beaten, and to be burned is not the same as not to be burned".
There is no arguing with people who deny such a fundamental law of logic

Polytheism in the Ancient Testament?

That one line in the old testament about dashing children's heads to pieces on rocks

The dogmatic absolutism and domination-game-playing inherent in abrahamism

That one time when Jesus said he came to destroy the family unit and set brother against brother

>>16402014
He just presents individual aspects of himself so brainlets like you can digest few information at a time.

>>16396729
The remnants of more noble cultures, slowly destroyed by cuckoldry that is christianity

>>16399440
This is dishonest. Christians don’t say each component of the trinity is 1/3 of God, they say it IS God

>>16396328
I'm not a christian. But doesn't this mean that the essence of the spirit, son and father is different, but contains God?

But that would mean perhaps that they are not entirely God in essence, that they have something other.

Difficult question

>>16400200
>The same way as the father, the son, and the holy spirit being independent of each other, but all part of the same concept. God.
You only needed this last part.
>>16400213
>>16400241
Anon was simply making an analogy. What is heretical about that?

>>16396328
>>16396373
>>16402054
The trinity is simply the three forms in which God has revealed himself to man. This isn't a limitation of his power.
Cope.

>>16396774
He literally tells his disciples to go to the nations. Actually read the fucking bible instead of cherries picked by /pol/

>>16402515
Ah yes the Romans, what a proud noble culture. Just ignore the slave economy, total abandonment of the plebs, rampant sexual debauchery, etc

>>16401975
So now the problem becomes Jesus, the psychotic killer with the split personality who calls himself his own father and his own son.
Not a loving god. A sick weirdo. If this god were true, we’d all be in trouble, not just “sinners”

>>16403319
>using moral framework of jewish desert cult to show romans were bad
Too far gone

>>16403328
how is this in any way applicable to Islam? Based retard atheist

>>16396669
Checked

>>16396520
so you are telling me there were not flowers when there were dinosaurs?
So back then all plants just propagated?

>>16400085
tfw forever average

>>16396328
Heaven and hell

YAHWEH the long-dicked niggerdemon and his tranny wife

>>16396677
Literally everything you just said is present in virtually all other major religions. You just don't like Christianity because it doesn't seem exotic to you

What I always find interesting about these discussions of the Trinity is this neoplatonist notion of the One which transcends the Trinity being paraded around as Christian orthodoxy. The Trinity is three persons who share the same nature/substance/essence. They are not forms, parts, emanations, manifestations, or anything of the kind since the persons have no source.

>>16402732
No, according to orthodoxy each person of the trinity is consubstantial (and coeternal) with the others. They all share the same essence/substance, but are not the same. The only concrete answers you'll get on how they are different have to do with the economy of the Trinity: the Son is eternally begotten by the Father, the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father, etc. In order to make this work, orthodoxy claims that these differences are nonessential, but what that means exactly is unclear.

>>16401965
This doesn't seem coherent since you claim God is timeless (which is a baseless claim) and impassable yet the whole concept of "instantiation" is inseparable from time and change.

>>16396755
This but unironically.

>>16396520
Literally made up lmao

>>16396328
It makes sense to me. Does the spirit have a panentheist aspect btw?

>>16398378
>the sciences progress
Wrong. We didn't have a significant breakthrough or shift in persepctive for a long time and what we do now is basically just small innovations and quantitaive work. The research we do now isn't aimed at a better understanding of reality, it's aimed at a more efficient use of our resources or solving problems.
t.scientist

>>16399446
>buddha
>solving anything
He literally ran away from everything, including his wife and child.

>>16399525
pagan cope

>>16399933
cope

>>16403373
so slavery is desirable?

>he thinks of trinity in the numerical sense

Hopeless.

>>16396328
Was Catholic and I could not stand how modern Catholic mass is just listening to a little girl yelling some shitty song while a guy strums I-IV-V-I on a guitar for hours on end. Became a Reddit atheist for a while but I'm currently researching a lot about Orthodoxy.

>>16404299
Same with the Bible

>>16405559
So they’re both fake???

>>16403968
No I don't like the other religions either, but OP only asked about Christianity

>>16405461
Yeah, it feels really out of place. It's church, not camping give gregorian chants or organs and not the guitar straight from the camping. It's not like church can't afford organist.

>>16402507
>Le god in three pieces
>In any way different than what pagans believed

>>16397325
>Thinks circumcision is required for Christians

>>16397552
For Muslims it's built into their religion to hate Christians trinitan view of God

>>16404466
Slavery never got abolished, just shuffled in the global economy to lesser nations. American slavery fucked it all up, abolition didn't happen anywhere else with the same demographic.

the fact that abrahamic religions are going to be reduced to historical artifacts and have no believers in like 50 years lol. in the year 2070 being a "christian" will be the equivalent of being a neopagan larper today

obviously this isn't a true argument against these religions and "muh eschatology predicted this" is a classic cope, but considering the past two millenia have been that same cope it would be funny to be an immortal and live through the next few generations to laugh at the handful of nerds left who LARP as christians while the average person asks
>wait who the fuck is joseph again

I'm sure god intends this to go on for a few thousand more years, christbros. don't stop believin'

>>16400022
There are small fruits on a fig tree that proceed the figs we eat. These are produced when the tree leafs out

>>16406613
it obviously is different unless you're a brainlet

>>16405461
>>16406485
>falling for the exotic turd worlder church meme

learn russian and you will dump orthodoxy in the trash so fast it will make penn jillette blush

>>16396673
>implying Christian civilization is more successful than Jewish civilization

>>16403328
Where, the fuck, do you get that? Why do you think a god operates in the same level as a person, this thing is capable of things beyond our wildest imagination, yet you assume it works exactly like a human being, also, no I don't believe God is omnibenevolent, the concept of sin disproves this, he is benevolent and favourable to those he sees fit, usually his followers.

>>16406973
So you fall back on the fact they’re two (or three?) different gods. Got it.

>>16403328
>claims to read Nietzsche while vehemently shitting on Jesus

i don't think we are peak creation, i don't think we sin, i dont think any god created/engineered humans

>>16408553
>i don't think we sin
*stabs you*
It's okay it's not a sin after all :3

>>16397003
the ancient egyptian "religion" was monotheistic

>>16396328
Realizing that Christianity was proto communism and Jesus was the first woke leftist ruined Christianity for me. It's a slave morality.

>>16408553
Interesting unironically
Speculate as to what 'peak creation' could be (I realize you used the word 'creation' for lack of a more readily available term, so I won't argue it's seeming to contradict your ultimate disbelief)
I too have a hard time believing that the human mind is at the apex of all that is, which is what many of the opinions both for an against the divine here tacitly assume.

Monarchianism.
Only the Father is God by name and ontology.
The Son and Spirit are God derivatively. Because it is the nature of God to emanate two Hypostases with whom he gives his all (except this, they can't give themselves what they are, only the Father is the Arche, mônos arkhḗ).
This is what monotheism means. The son is the 'in and through' that the Father acts, one may theorize that the Son is the waters (and voice) of genesis.

literally the only actual christians to ever exist were puritan tier literalists who tried to include god's influence in every aspect of their lives. if you believe 100% that an omnipotent being exists and has laid out a roadmap to your life, and furthermore that great rewards or terrible consequences are possible depending on your behavior, you will act in a way that seems immediately extreme to your society. most "christians" throughout history have just been cultural "christians" and political larpers. it is telling that most of the time when people discuss religion today, their first subject is political expedience. look at this board for example, "christians" spend more time arguing about politics than divinity, brotherhood, or whether or not god can move the big rock.

i was raised in a christian commune of sorts and rebelled as a young kid with edgy wiccan books etc. but in my late teens i decided to take it seriously. i spent about a year living an ascetic tier existence, constantly reading and trying to figure out how to live most christlike. then I realized none of the hypocrites around me was doing this shit, not even the conservative boomers who worked at a fucking commune, and i was getting played and it's all a joke because if god's idea of christendom is a planet where 99% of people LARP and spit in his face while his church dies then he's retarded.

The End.

>>16409516
No Christian is ever adequate, anon, that's the whole con of it. It sets you out impossible standards so you constantly have to go back to the pastor and donate for spiritual "guidance".

>>16403328

>>16409529
the gap between settlers on plymouth rock who prayed constantly (and acknowledged they were horrible sinners) vs some italian catholicuck in 2020 who gets piss drunk on weekends, philanders, and spends about 0.5 milliseconds pondering the almighty on the way to the casino (but hey he can go to confession *wink*) is night and day. it's a fucking schizophrenic culturelarp, a sick dog, just put it down already.

it is actually insulting to people in the past who believed this stuff, to be a zoomer on tinder and then even utter christ's name.

>>16399446
Well. The problem of evil doesn't affect buddhism, since buddhism is just the religion of stopping evil. i.e. the whole point of buddhism is that the world is full of evil and that we need to do something about it ourselves (and not rely on some kind of "God" to solve our problems for us).

>>16404376
he came back to them after he got enlightened though. he even ordained his son Rahula as a monk

>>16409555
The Christians on Plymouth Rock were sinners, as equally stained in God's eyes as the kids on Tinder today.

>>16409567
religion is the only racket where you can claim to believe its principles and then do the exact opposite in a flagrant manner. imagine getting a job as a librarian then deciding "nah, I'm more of a bank teller kind of guy" and spending 8 hours per day at wells fargo and still calling yourself a librarian. that is what christfags do. they have often done so (most "religious" people really), but especially today. it wasn't always like this.

the point isn't that you have to be a perfect christian, but that motherfuckers don't even remotely *try* now.

>>16409565
>the world is full of evil and that we need to do something about it ourselves (and not rely on some kind of "God" to solve our problems for us).
>sits under a tree of temple built by others and paid for by working peasants doing a poor excuse of "meditation" all day everyday except when vagabonding and begging for other people's food.

>>16409619
Tips fedora for m'lady

>>16409663
ok christcuck. keep larping while this trend keeps trucking >>16406699

>>16409633
Buddha took the role of the teacher/saint. Not everyone needs to be the priestly class.

>>16406783
whats wrong with orthodoxy?

>>16409687
Buddha took the role of lazy bum and con artist.

>>16396328
I discussed this with an engineering student who was attending my pre-seminary. We more or less came to conclusion that only an abstraction can be used to describe the Trinity, since all real-world examples inevitably become heresy.

I personally liked the one involving infinite sets. Where if you have
[.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5...]
[1, 3, 5, 7, 9...] and
[2, 4, 6, 8, 10...]
these are all infinite sets, but are not each other. The only issue with this explanation/visualization is that one could interpret "different infinite sets" as different gods, but considering that these are equal infinities, I think that problem can be more or less avoided. In Scripture, we see The Lord described in terms that could only be categorized as "infinite terms," such as eternality, pure good, infinite power, infinite presence, infinite knowledge, etc. If the fundamental concept behind "God" is infinity, then using math seems to be the best way to explain the Trinity to me. All three are God (infinite), but they are not each other (not overlapping infinite sets). This sorta ties in with the idea of God as the greatest being, where if all three are the greatest/infinite, then all three persons of the Trinity are God without being each other.

>>16399504
based and anti-hereticpilled

>>16399495
more basedness
destroy all heretics that insist each person of the trinity is a third of God that needs to be combined with the other two persons to be full God

>>16410492
This is my favorite post in the thread.

>>16399491
I wish to be a knight of faith. I dream that I will complete the race, having given all that I could.

>>16399992
Heretic.

>>16396429
The trinity is very clearly laid out in the Bible. Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father are all explicitly referred to as God.

>>16402134
God literally proves you wrong IN the Bible. No forms, no sections, no physical body, and he certainly was not born of a human woman or could die.

>>16410814
Deuteronomy 6: 4-9 - “God is one”

Deuteronomy 33:27 - “The eternal God is your refuge”... an eternal God cannot die.

1 Samuel 15:29 “And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent.”

Numbers 23:19. “God is not man, that he should lie.”

Isaiah 40:28. “God is everlasting”... an everlasting God cannot be begotten (born)

Psalm 147:5 “Great is our Lord and full of power; His wisdom is beyond reckoning.”

Hosea 11:9 “I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I devastate Ephraim again.
For I am God, and not a man - the Holy One among you. I will not come against their cities.”

Messianic prophecy:


Jews will return to the Torah
Deuteronomy 30:8-10, Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 11:19-20. 36:26-27, 37:24, Nehemiah 1:19
Jews will return to Israel.
Deuteronomy 30:3, Isaiah 11:11-12. Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37, Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24, 37:25
Peace on Earth
Micah 4:4, Isaiah 60:18, Zechariah 14:11
The Holy Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and in full use.
Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 6-:7, 66:20, Ezekiel 37:26-27, Malachi 3:4, Zechariah 14:20-21
The world will seek guidance from the Jews
Zechariah 8:20-23, 14:9, 16, Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:3, 14, Jeremiah 16:19-21, Micah 4, Hosea 2:20
UNIVERSAL knowledge of God
Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 45:23, 66:23, Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 37:28, 38:23, Psalm 86:9

Compare these passages with the New Testament redefinition of the Messiah as someone who accomplishes nothing on Earth but who saves his followers:

Matthew 1:21 - “...saves his people from their sins”

1 Corinthians 15:3 - “...Messiah died for our sins”

John 1:29 - “...the lamb of God takes the sin away from the world”

1 Peter 2:24 - “...bore our sins in his body on the cross”

NT is full of shit

Ezekiel 37: 24-28

Could this be any more clear? The Messiah (“David”) will be a SERVANT of God, not God.

24 “‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’”

JESUS WAS NOT GOD. CHRISTKEKS BTFO

>>16410492
Look into essence-energy distinction. The names that we give God such as 'infinite good, infinite presence, infinite x" all correspond to God's energy, ie his manifestation to the world, while his essence is inaccessible to us What you had just stated is pretty similar to that.

>>16411382
> ... an everlasting God cannot be begotten (born)
You're making a simplistic logic error.

Christ is everlasting and was also begotten and born; there is no contradiction.

>>16403550
Hi, what do you mean by propagation?

maybe this will answer your question- Flowers are not required for sexual reproduction. Flowers aid in pollen transmission (by attracting mobile organisms between plants sexual organs).

Wind pollination was the predominant method of pollen transmission before the advent of flowers. Think conifers.

>>16411435
That's a very cool opinion anon! But is it found in the Bible? Nope! Not even close!

God has no essence-energy distinction. God's essence is being, and His being is necessarily infinite, good, etc. God tells the Israelites that he will never appear in front of them physically, as they would literally die immediately. This is how we know that Jacob and the Angel, the burning bush, etc. are not literally God, but Angels or apparitions sent in his place. This means that Jesus, at best, was a version or manifestation of God which was not God himself. Therefore, Father > Son, which means Jesus was not God.

>>16411468
Nigger iq detected.

be·get

1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.

2. give rise to; bring about.

This is exactly why God is so specific about his characteristics and oneness in the Bible... so that african-americans like yourself don't run around spewing heresy :)

>>16411468
How can he be everlasting if he died?

>hurr durr you just don't get it, his body perished but not his God-soul-essence durr God has the same body/soul distinction that humans have

God is going to ask you about your blasphemy

>>16411511
Nah, entire nature of Christ suffered and died on the Cross

>>16403550
lmao dis nigga things Pinecones are flowers

>>16411609
>Eternal, all powerful, infinite God
>Died and suffered

>not understanding the difference between hardware and software
Must be that legendary atheist four-digit IQ.

>>16411647
I believe in God you idiot

>Hardware and Software

GOD HAS NO SECTIONS OR VERSIONS OR SPLIT PERSONALITY OR MANY PERSONS OR WHATEVER RETARD SHIT YOU PEOPLE COME UP WITH NEXT

>>16403280

Please explain the passages mentioned, why would someone all-loving act like that?

>>16411638
Yes. That's the point of Christ sacrifice Mr.Neoplatonist. Can One die? So much for omnipotent being.

>>16411487
I agree with you that one cannot be in the presence of God and live. Every biblical theophany is a manifestation of God's energy rather than his essence. When Christ through his Incarnation was in the presence of others, the disciples and his followers saw his person (or hypostases) rather than his essence. You should read St. Cyril and the Cappadocian Fathers anon.

>>16411487
Also anon the word energy is used multiple times in the NT. ἐνέργεια is translated into multiple words in English like power, works, operations etc. For example, in Ephesians 3:7 "of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power". How do we interact with God? Do we interact with his essence? No otherwise we die. Rather, we make contact with God through the energies of God, and the hypostases of the Trinity.

>>16411487
Does the bible say that every true opinion must be found in the bible?

>Paul turning it around 180 degrees from a Buddhist-like denomination of Judaism to a death cult
>its insidious destruction of something as durable as the Roman Empire
>its unconditional morals are poison for any healthy senitent being
>seeing how it's armed with masterfully crafted psychological tricks to build dependence in people
>realising monotheism is the last stage of religious cult and christianity is its epitome

>>16396328
Nothing, everything makes perfect sense.

>>16413237
>Buddhist-like denomination of Judaism
Jesus was a Jewish zealot who would have you executed for blasphemy if he became king of the Jews (and that's a good thing)
Matthew 5:17
>Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

>>16413419
Where is the judgement day then? Both jesus and Paul were preaching to their followers that the end is totally near and they are going to be resurrected. Guess what, nothing happened this rendering the entire movement a lie

>>16413453
Nah, just wait for it. It'll happen when it happens.

>>16413481
Lmao oh yeah for sure, how many more thousands of years until it totally happens?

>>16413503
Dunno.