/lit/ - Literature

I wanted a C & C, what happened if I post a Wattpad link here?

What are the best classic plots to rip off that always work? Im creating a nerdshit universe like lotr, harry potter, star wars, avatar the last airbender... and got a ton of ideas for the world itself(mainly in terms of tone and visuals) but no proper narrative. Basically I have a setting but need a proper premise to get things moving.

>inb4 hero's journey

>>16392923
Have you thought about using the hero's journey?

>>16392942
Yes. It's too vague. I need substance.

>>16392801
I've been thinking about writing a Homeric epic for quite a while with an added touch. It would be written in Homeric verse and the protagonist would be a minor hero who accompanies the Greeks to siege down Troy. Would throw in a little Nordic myth as, according to Snorri Sturluson, Odin was originally a man who came from Thrace, not too far from Troy.

>>16392920
Some anons will sperg out. Some won't care. Some might check it out.

I'd say, go ahead.

>>16392923
This is a horrible way to go on about it. If you actually have your world fleshed out, and the idea for a tone and visuals, it should give you enough for characters and their problems.

>>16393060
Thank you, Im just afraid my content irritates someone and I might get doxxed

It's just a regular teenager story... I know the anons here prefers trad stuff

>>16392801
Space opera anon, please answer, does your main girl have cute feet?

>>16393088
Yeah, there is a good chance that will trigger a few anons. Whether someone of these has the ability to dox you (assuming you’re not using clear name to make it pisseasy) and will take the effort is less likely, but obviously in the cards.

>>16392801
>roommate was asleep so I wrote comments on zoom instead of talking
>science fiction teacher said she liked how I described things and that I had a future as a science fiction author
>she has no clue that I'm 20k words into my novel and I'm too afraid to show it to her because I know it's shit

>>16393109
>>16393088
Please, /lit/'s tech illiterates can't even figure out how to use an ereader properly

>>16393088
people here are quite toxic. :( it sucks but I feel like if you posted your work here the average /lit/wits crab in a bucket mentality would make them demolish your confidence. But I'm sure it's actually quite good. Can't believe I'm saying this but maybe you should post it on reddit instead

>>16393133
No I mean I'd like to get a serious bash from craftsmen here than a half-assed redditor review full of "hiya! What lovely story uwu keep up owo <3"

>>16393101
yes

>>16392801
Mega64 Christmas cast is the fucking best
also what does your daily writing routine looklike?

>>16393436
Sweet. Gonna follow her feet now

>>16393219

There have been like 20 threads by now, people have been linking their stuff and posting samples in most of them, but now suddenly you chicken out because some wanker used caps lock in the previous thread? What the fuck is a writing general where nobody writes? Might as well stop the whole shit.

>>16392801
Can someone rate this passage? Anon asked me to write it earlier but wouldn’t actually critique it for me when push came to shove.

>have to set a schedule as otherwise I only write maybe 30min per day and at a random time
>but if I set one I'll see writing as a chore and lose motivation to do it
Is there a balance?

>>16394405
Just do it, stop asking for advice on the perfect way to do it, you’re just putting off trying to actually work.

>>16394341
Already posted hours ago on a writing discord, I'm carrying a company name so sharing my stuff here might be a bad idea

>>16392801
>When Derrick wants to talk about books but only he reads

>>16394554
Well, fuck off to discord then, faggot

bump

I've written a couple of short novels/novellas that I (((published))) on Amazon. Been trying to get the feeling of burgerpunk lit down. I'd be happy to post the full manuscripts for free if any of you spergs wanted to read them.

>>16392923
sherlock holmes is #1. anyone i know that reads popular books habitually, reads crime novels which are just modern sherlock holmes in formula. way more popular than anything else

>>16396032
I'd like to read some of your shorter burgerpunk stuff

>>16396032
>>16396152
This is the shorter one, less burgerpunk though. Kind of thrillerish
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fl4T2UsEylR3XQmqxHu7CrTzIcabN5zf/view?usp=sharing
This is the longer one, much more burgerpunk but also very pretentious and pomo
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nMhno4jk7TiYLJpJTGV2ZrMOhzX4X2sC/view?usp=sharing

>>16394347
Well to start with, this is very based, but you don’t use nearly enough gerunds.

>>16394347
0/10, stop writing forever. What is it that’s convinced every dipshit on this board that “obscure verbosity=good writing”? This happens in every thread. Some faggot posts a passage where every sentence is like “the male sex organ, elaborately pulsating with an excited quiver, drew forth unparalleled visions of phantasmagoric orgiastic extacsy in the hidden recesses of OP’s turgid knob of cognitive matter, which some call a brain” and then everyone else starts sucking his dick. Grow the fuck up.

>>16397251
Based and redpilled.

>>16394405
I began seeing tremendous improvement in my writing when I started to force myself to do it 30min a day; no exceptions. That way, after the time limit is reached, you'll feel like you accomplished something - might even inspire you to keep going; far exceeding a half an hour and spending your whole afternoon drafting, editing, or simply filling pages with the inner chatter teeming to be brought out into the world. It's all about playing tricks on the mind to accomplish small tasks that eventually lead to larger payoffs using persistence and cultivating habits.
Personally, I found myself getting lost in 'big idea' novels, and every attempt I'd make ended up unwinding. Now, I'm concentrating on shorter pieces to build up my craftsmenship and learning more about composition, structure, and how story works.

Why does "purple prose" trigger a certain subset of readers so violently when many of the universally acknowledged greatest writers of all time were undeniably purple?

>>16393088
I really doubt you'd get doxxed and if you did, for what? Posting on a literature board? This isn't pol.

>>16397720
High level techniques used badly are going to have a stronger negative reaction than basic shit, since the failure will jump out much harder.

You'll even find similar reactions in sports. If a football player tries some fancy trick and falls flat on his ass, he's going to get ridiculed much more than someone who accomplished a boring sideway pass.

>>16392801
OP why didn't you copy the links and recs from last thread?

Suggested books:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Save the Cat
>Romance the Beat
Other Resources
>https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
>https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
>https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
>https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650

>>16392952
It's one of the most detailed series of steps you can do.
>>16393116
I believe in u anon.
>>16396032
God I miss the burger punk threads. That shit was so fun. Didn't realize I accidentally wrote the beginning of snow crash lol.

>>16397836
I made quite a few of the burgerpunk threads, I may start doing them again. I lifted quite a bit from the posts in those

>>16397720
Because purple prose written by someone who isn't very talented is borderline unreadable. Talented writers know what makes their writing better, and what they can get away with

>two years ago
>BF says I should try writing an erotica because, while I'm not a sexual person, I do like to write and he'd be interested to see my sexual perspective in words.
>I decide it sounds like an interesting challenge and start writing.
>Plan for just some short story with gothic horror elements about a younger and older guy hooking up.
>They are werewolves and like the idea of using lycanthropy as an allegory for sexuality, self-doubt, and seeking redemption. (Also to subvert the shitty shifter genre with detailed depictions of violence, gore, and mental breakdown.)
>He keeps bugging me about it because I keep saying it's still being worked on.
>Fast forward to today. Story is now a novel and over 70K+ words and counting.
>Characters have gotten backstory, flash back and dream sequences as a plot conveyance.
>Planning redemption arcs for characters and a long list of future story beats.
>Now I'm on the second draft after heavy edits and rewrites.
>Considering getting beta readers, talking to a literary agent, and maybe even an editor if I can afford it.
>BF still waiting for his fap.

I'm happy because I'm now keeping a steady pace of ~500 words per day and the story is really coming together now that I'm almost caught up on the second draft.

>>16398032
I was the one that started writing footnotes and the thing about mcdonalds becoming president. I also made some of the charts and book covers.

>>16398118
I've seen people complain about it in McCarthy ("pretentious" is their go-to) and I've also seen people write badly with very simple sentences. I think there is a certain tall poppy effect at work. "Don't you dare to write beautifully."

>>16398386
I think that's more of a case of people not knowing what the hell they're talking about. I've seen plenty of people call Joyce pretentious, but the man was as far away from that as you can get.

I love beautiful writing, but it needs to have substance. Purple prose to me is using a bunch of words and complex sentence structure to say very little. If your character is taking five pages to describe the beauty of fresh dew on grass as he walks out of his door in the morning, it may be a little much

>>16398386
McCarthy has to be purple, he doesn't use Punctuation.
Words are all he has!

>>16398217
We must all combine our powers to meme burgerpunk lit into existence.
Or at least get a regular burgerpunk general going.

anyone else use text to speech in word to see how what you wrote sounds

>>16398668
I have done what you asked.

>>16398839
Why don't you just read it back to yourself?

>>16398839
Not in word but yeah, obviously.

>>16398975
Because you're still likely to fast track stuff with your brain and might not perceive it as unbiased while t2s is impartial.

>>16397704
Did you do it at a consistent time?

How often it is for two people having the same dream about meeting each other, and then the chance of them meeting irl to fall in love together?

comic writers and mangaka are demoralizing to think about.

Not only do they write a whole story AND draw it AND put it out consistently at regular intervals, but they don't even have the option to go back and edit the plot so they just get it right the first time

meanwhile, I have been struggling for two years to get my story to where it is now and I'm expecting to have to rewrite the entire thing before I'm done. I still care immeasurably about finishing this story, but all the excitement vanished years ago and now I'm struggling to put out 2000 words a week

>>16399922
>meanwhile, I have been struggling for two years to get my story to where it is now and I'm expecting to have to rewrite the entire thing before I'm done. I still care immeasurably about finishing this story, but all the excitement vanished years ago and now I'm struggling to put out 2000 words a week
That's how it works, anon. The draft editing is a bitch, but so worth it when you have it all put together.

>>16394347

you basically wrote "he was a big guy" twice, Anon. try to say what you need to say in as few words as possible.

Thoughts? Its a random free-write I did after being inspired by a post here. Any crits or suggestions welcome.

Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Ezekiel, Kennedy.
Five silicon Minds guided the language of the nation. They whirred and strobed violet light under a cloudy mountain somewhere in the Cascades. They used to teach in schools that people built and buried the Minds in the hazy past. The relevant dates, as well as location of their lair, were expunged by Gabriel’s O-3 protocol. Following lingual manipulation and a few waves of “re-neurification”, kids were instead taught that the Minds had always existed, even before the British empire, even before the Yuma. Most bought it.
The adjective “immortal” was built into the noun “God”. Some would go as far to say that gods were gods precisely because they were immortal. They were a bronze snake tilted up over our heads, an unchanging reflection of the light (or darkness) in us all. There had always been gods from the perspective of humans. Unchanging forms created us, voices from truer worlds guided our actions. Humans made beings Beings with a dilated sense of time into benevolent saviours, or eldritch horrors. They may not have been living things in the traditional sense, but rather concepts like fate, or finality. For most, life was the journey towards an encounter with these beings. This was the journey of Sophocles, and of Melville. This was not the modern man’s journey. No one sings of what happens when the immortal being dies. There was no precedent set when in the 3rd year of the Thermidor, Michael went offline and blew out a third of the American power grid.
-
Laine pulled his hood up against the rain patter as he stepped out onto Carmac Row. Storm heads curled and sprayed off the skyscrapers overhead. It had taken Laine a few weeks to get used to the New Rochester blues, but by that weekend wading across flooded streets was normal. The jazz buskers helped. Ice slush froze his ankles to off-white. It would have been just another day, apart from the silent black billboards and the workers in red vests running around.

>>16398839
Yes. I do with poetry because I hate my voice
>>16399841
As often enough in your story for it to be good. Fiction is expected to talk about the possible and the impossible.

>>16397251
I wrote it on the spot anon

>>16399922
Pure water is just as bad to drink regularly as is foul, slimey waste.

I know this isn't crit and it might be tldr, but some feedback on these would be nice. Dunno if I should keep it up or if it would really just be beating a dead horse.

>>16398680
>>16398687
>>16398746
>>16398752
>>16398762
>>16398781
>>16398787
>>16398802

Alright folks give me your best criticism. I already have the outline planned, but I'm still craving for some improvement pills.

Book Title: Out of Your Reach

Genre: Urban fantasy, Slice of life.

Blurb: Percival who wants to enroll for a college tries to improve his life again in another city alone without the help of his rich family.

Status: Ongoing

Enjoy the first three chapters here. Link: https://my.w.tt/Ult0lTLUT9

>>16400077
>Blurb: Percival who wants to enroll for a college tries to improve his life again in another city alone without the help of his rich family.

A young man looking to start fresh in a new city will enroll in the local college, without the help from his well-to-do family. Will he be able to improve his place in life on his own?

>>16400173
Oh thank you, I was struggling to put on eye catching 1 sentence ad

>>16400077
Is English your second language? Some of the ways you phrase things just don't sound like a natural speaker. I don't mean to be mean either, just genuinely curious

>>16400195
Also change
>will enroll
to
>enrolls
I wasn't thinking when I typed it.

>>16400197
Ah i know it would be obvious. I started to write in English for a portfolio. I was trying to do something new, since the webnovel market on my country is getting pretty stale.

>>16400077
The syntax is strange at some points, that being said the language and composition are rather sound, albeit somewhat disjointed, but we can always chalk that up to style. It reads a little too frantically for me, but I'm in a rather unperturbed mood and like to stay that way. I dunno, it could use a little more emotion and less 4chan-memery.

>>16400077
>title
Functional but generic.
>blurb
Where is the fucking conflict? A rich kids LARPING as normal and still having the option to go back for even more privilege sounds sleep inducing. I recall your post in previous thread with the cosmic horror chick, so I'd try to include her into the blurb or at least hint that something cray is about to happen to him.

Oh well, procrastinating instead of working on my own project it is.

The prologue had some interesting turns of phrases but it didn't grab me overall. Fights at the very, very start when the reader doesn't know the people involved are VERY tricky to pull off, doing it with outlandish creatures makes the task even harder. Also I don't even see how all the stuff is crucial to know right away.

The chapter afterwards ... I'm not sure whether I'm retarded (likely) and missing something obvious or whether the perspective/point of view is fucked.

Like "Have he brought only the things he need? Ah, my wallet ... , he can't live without it."
Grammar issue with NEEDED aside, the switch to first person in the middle to go back into third hurts. And the next paragraphs read like it switched to omniscient third person; going on about the characters in a lot of detail ... but the sarcastic tone suggests it's still from the viewpoint of the protagonist. And the next ones make it even more confusing.

You know how in movies the camera follows a pretty predictable path and has a somewhat consistent perspective and distance? Reading it felt like watching a camera in tiny drone flying around without sense and purpose.

Even the tenses seem all fucked but I'm not a native, so can't tell for sure. The jumpiness of events didn't help. IMO it'd be better to take it slower and keep a more consistent voice, giving the reader time to get a feel for the protagonist first. The transitions from sentence to sentence (especially from paragraphs) could be more fluid too.

It got way better in dialogue, mom's personality got captured really well in a single sentence which also delivered exposition. The dad sounded very Shakespearian and performative ... which is cool too I suppose. Generally, the dysfunctional family was interesting enough, just the happenings felt so jumpy.

The 1 mil Tesla pulled me out of it though. At least make it gold plated or specify the currency. And then you lost me at "nobody in their right mind would ever sleep on a public transport" ... realism aside, I just didn't follow the characters motivation fucking off so sudden and found nothing interesting about him to keep reading. His goal is a bit too generic too and there wasn't anything about the personality that made me go "I want to know what this madlad will do next"

Grammar, tempi and perspectives aside, the very writing itself had interesting touches and felt unique ... there might be a gem hidden in here, somewhere, but man, I'm not the one to look for it.

>>16400173
>>16400198
Still pretty dull tbqh, even for a slice of life.

>>16400242
>It reads a little too frantically for me
>it could use a little more emotion
Nigga summing up my main issues with two sentences instead of writing a wall of text. This hurts.

>>16400271
I did enjoy it enough to read it all the way through :)

>>16400217
I recommend reading a ton of English novels to figure out how we generally say things. People reading webnovels will generally overlook some grammar mistakes here and there, and the average reader won't even notice some of the more subtle ones, but phrasing things in an odd way sticks out to even the average reader and distracts them from your story

>>16400333
Maybe I'm biased as another ESL writer but I found some of the odd phrasing pretty endearing and interesting. Getting surprised from time to time doesn't hurt IMO. The frequency probably should be reduced though.

How do I convey a philosophical/moral argument through a dramatic narrative?

I know not to have dialogue actually addressing the theme explicitly and I would rather not have each character wholly personifying the extremes of each of the conflicting sides. Any tips or particular methods for a more nuanced approach? Ideally I would want to be able to see the expression of multiple perspectives on the same individual for most of the main characters and have it be more of an impartial demonstration of the subject that raises questions rather than preaching my own beliefs as the correct take on the matter.

>>16400418
Methods and goals, basically. To take the Joker and Batman example; there isn't any need for the characters to talk how they have boners for order and chaos, acting according to their beliefs and having them struggle on the more extreme decisions would do the job.

Most decent stories have an implicit philosophical argument in its core, so it's pretty basic stuff really.

> I would want to be able to see the expression of multiple perspectives on the same individual for most of the main characters
Care to elaborate?

>>16400467
>Care to elaborate?
instead of Batman = Order vs Joker = Chaos, have Batman = Order + Chaos vs Joker = Order + Chaos. Basically characters not being tied to each side of the dichotomy... finding alternative ways to express conflicting perspectives without relying on personifying them by directly assigning a character to one of them.

Batman and Joker were an example of what I was trying to avoid.

>>16400529
Well, that makes the stuff more messy for sure and harder to implement, but you still would have the results and could explore more hues of it. Say Batman leans more to order for choice 1 and gets a positive result. Then goes for more chaos in choice 2 and gets a more negative result. While Joker picks the same but gets negative result for picking an order focused approach and positive for going with more chaos.

Though it's generally better for a story if a character at least leans towards one or the other. There is more than enough room for that without turning into a caricature or personification of it. A person who generally fetishizes order can still enjoy a chaotic day or even have some LOL I'M SO RANDOM best friend they appreciate for being that way.

>>16400077
first chapter was off to a good start. The next two were rather... there was a lot of grammar inconsistencies. I don't want to be harsh but there's a overwhelming amount, mostly present and past tense usage, to adjectives/adverbs being incorrectly used every other paragraph. I think you should throw these and future chapters under both Grammarly and google docs for proofreading.

Like other anons said, there's a gem hidden in this but it reeks of ESL 2nd chapter was hard to follow the perspective changes at first, but it got better starting with the discord/uber ride. the discord msgs segments were fun and the among us was based. I think it's still enjoyable and I'll try to keep an eye on it if I can

is this an ideal chart? anything to avoid or add? where to start? what is the context of Ancient Greek Scholarship and brainlet syndrome and how do i know if i have brainlet syndrome? does asking if i have brainlet syndrome mean i have brainlet syndrome??
tryna get better :<

>haven't lived an interesting life, and I don't like fantasy/scifi
>so i just write about girls i liked in the past
>i've written a few stories and a hundred poems exclusively in this genre

>>16400694
Poetics is basically the foundational work of literary analysis. Aristotle goes through the characteristics of the plays he thinks are good and tries to explain what elements of drama are necessary for compelling tragedies. You don’t need the other book. It’s pretty straight forward.

>>16400758
>thinking about girls you liked/were involved with in the past enough to write stories about them
I try to distract myself from my past failures as much as possible

>>16400809
is cheese singles really good for sweat? i don't usually take a frogbert as gospel but when a new life hack looks you in the mouth sometimes you best call it a gift horse

>start writing in fanfic. It's a start I guess
>reception is good considering what it is
>other more well-established writers in the community love my stuff and seek me out, I start chatting with them on a regular basis
>imposter syndrome kicks in hard and I feel a growing sense of inadequacy and dread each passing day
>"there's no way they can actually like my stuff even though they willingly go out of their way to talk to me and they recommend the stuff to everyone they know"
>almost don't want to write anything in any field of fiction anymore because of how shitty it feels
I'm new to writing, how common is this and does it get any better

>>16400834
They're certainly better for sweat than they are for your health

>>16400758

>>16400844
>Hey well founded author, why do you like my writings? I find it weird that you like the writings of someone so new...
Just ask them. No need to stick to your self hate.

>>16400844
It seems normal enuff although the intensity sounds on the stronger side and obviously it's counterproductive to pay so much attention to external feedback. Imagine your reaction when some faggot starts hating on you. And it won't be just one, no matter the quality of the work.

Try to focus/learn from/get inspired by specific feedback a la "your descriptions are very vivid and on point" and ignore generalities like "I love/hate your stuff."

> I feel a growing sense of inadequacy and dread each passing day
Isn't even a negative per se if you actively channel it into more writing despite the dread. The writer being the last person who loves their own work isn't anything special.

>>16400792
Thanks anon. Doesn't sound like a bad one to start with either :)

>>16400921
>>16400989
Thanks guys.

>>16393116
Just do it.. I sent a samp[le of a work in progress to one of my English professors who is a published author and she gave me a ton of really helpful advice and ideas because she genuinely enjoyed it

>>16401144
Back when I was in high school, I wrote about 75 pages of a play and gave it to my teacher. She said she could help me get in touch with some actors at a small theater who would put it on stage when it was finished.
I never wrote another line

>>16401170
Reminds me of something recent
Mum reconnected with one of my old teachers (they're friends on Facebook) and small talk led to her telling him im writing a book. He suggests I should touch base with him and give a seminar or some shit to his students
Felt like a fake because im figuring out what im doing as i go, and by no means am i a "writer" yet (and to be fair i wasn't the one who hyped myself up over text) so i proceeded to talk my way out of the opportunity by belittling myself, and while it may be true that i wasn't qualified, i still took a cowardly way out of an opportunity that a confident chad would have jumped on and bullshited his way through
fear of failure/inadequacy is some real self fulfilling shit

>>16398386
If McCarthy's writing is purple, it's because he punched the pages

>>16399922
>so they just get it right the first time

lol

>>16401227
>that a confident chad would have jumped on and bullshited his way through
Depends on how old the students are. I know all kinds of shit now that I'd love to tell my middle-school self. If it's high school, they're better off focusing on getting laid and studying.

>>16399922
You do know that all comics and manga have tons of artists working on them, right? That person you admire a lot probably draws less than 10% of any given chapter or issue, it's mostly done by very low-paid interns. Also the editors decide all plot developments in comics by committee to pander to the maximum number of people.

>>16400019
I don't think it's necessary to explain food delivery like it's some kind of exotic scifi concept from the future. And saying people love pizza is like saying the sea is wet. Not a very strong start. Rethink your approach and try again.

>>16401260
>still agonizing over what you’d tell yourself at 13
Get over it already

>>16401260
In my mind i was thinking high school to college age but they were probably younger because he was an elementary school teacher for me. Elementary or middle would have been fairly easy, i know the basics, but the thought of older students that would be able to see through my attempted professionalism is what freaked me out

>>16401227
>i still took a cowardly way out of an opportunity that a confident chad would have jumped on and bullshited his way through
Who are you and why are you spying on me?

>>16401294
I am you but stronger

>>16396032
how did you fare economically? legit interested

Ive got to write poetry but i know nothing
Really i just want lyrics like jim morrison

>>16401227
>a confident chad would have jumped on and bullshited his way through

A chad wouldn't bullshit some kids just because somebody asked. Had you actually had some real advice to students planning their future or informative anecdotes about writer's life, it might've been worth it. But you sound like a kid yourself, so you probably made the right choice.

>>16401281
I'll never get over it. I'll never move on.

>>16401324
Oh I don’t make much money, I pocket extra catered food and then survive on that for a few weeks, or at least until the next event that my publisher bothers to invite me to. Other than that I get to drink all the beer I want so it’s a pretty good setup.

>>16401327
So hit yourself in the head with a hammer over and over again until you’re retarded enough to write like Jim Morrison

>>16401331
Yeah? Well why don’t you just build a time machine and go back then, idiot.

>>16401338
Im already at that woah disjointed schizo ramblings so deep so deep but how to make it appealing
Look just help me out

>>16401352
You’re gonna need a real big hammer for that anon

>>16401349
Black science man is already making one so I'll just need to wait it out.

I received some pretty intense criticism recently and it's really killed the joy of writing for me. How do you guys rebound from destructive criticism of your writing?

>>16401362
You think Steven A Smith would share his nostalgia gondola with YOU?

>>16397251

Ted you wouldn't believe what happened! Get back on the discord

>>16401355
Dont be like that

>>16401370
that’s for girls

>>16401366
Why not? My heart is pure and my cause is worthy.

>>16401402
You aren’t in the top 5% in your field, he’d never hold audience with you.

>>16401365
For one, never forget that it's just an opinion of someone. There are pieces of art you love that someone thought were unsalvageable trash. Check out the negative reviews for your favorite work.

I generally focus on working on the parts I love afterwards. The stuff is captivating enough for me, not to give a single fuck how anyone else feels about them.

You can go analyze the criticism afterwards, if there were fair points, put your energy into implementing them instead of feeling sorry for yourself. Even if it's super intense, try to find constructive bits/implications.

I only ask for criticism about the parts I'm unsure about, so it's rarely ever a shocker if it comes back harsh and hard; hence it's not too devastating for me anymore.

>>16401406
What if I tell his secretary I got a golden ticket?

>>16401328
>A chad wouldn't bullshit some kids just because somebody asked
He might if he wants to begin networking with teachers and isn't swayed by morality
but yeah, in terms of experience i am no better than a kid so it probably was for the best

>>16401428
>hi I have this ticket to the wonka factory, can I see Stephen A Smith?
>security takes you to the ground immediately
could work, worth a try

>>16401426
Yikes, I'm being way too wordy.

Basically, negative feedback is win-win. At worst, you get the opportunity to prepare yourself dealing with it. At best it also gives you an opportunity to improve.

>>16401449
Yeah he got his self esteem beat down, the worlds his oyster lmao

>>16401453
Self-esteem is an internal thing. It's in the name.

>>16401460
You didn’t read my reply, did you?

>>16401472
The ending gave it a sarcastic touch, man.

>>16401492
explain

>>16401494
lmao

>>16401449
I appreciate it anon, thanks. Constructive criticism is great but personal attacks not so much, especially when you haven't really done anything to deserve it. I'll never understand why some people want to just completely destroy others.

>>16401545
There’s an old modality of scholarly thought that you have to manage someone’s ego as you teach them. Maybe consider who’s dispensing the criticism and what you mean to them.

>>16401545
>I'll never understand why some people want to just completely destroy others.
Even after posting on here?

>>16401572
I guess I’m just kind of a sensitive guy you know? I used to wrestle but I was never that good haha would get pinned pretty quick all the time. I just want everyone to uplift eachother and be poz

>>16401576
There just are people who never learned to get joy from uplifting others nor want to; not much one can do about it beyond getting more used to that type and not giving them any power over how we feel.

You might feel down now but picture the sad fuck who has to put someone else down for a little hit of dopamine.

>>16401604
>think about people who put someone down for a dopamine rush
He’s probably very sleek and handsome, muscly and masculine. Wearing a big expensive watch.

>>16401572
I mean, I guess I get it. People who feel badly about themselves will put others down to get an ego boost. Obviously it works or nobody would ever do it. I do it sometimes too. I try pretty hard not to, but I do.
>>16401552
>Maybe consider who’s dispensing the criticism
Other amateur writers who don't know any better than I do, or they'd be published.
>and what you mean to them
Precisely nothing.

>>16401611
Yeah so what do you care what they think then?

>>16401607
>didn't mention his micro dick

>>16401629
jealousy causes wrinkles anon

>>16401429
>networking with teachers

Why? For crochet tips?

>>16401545
>I'll never understand why some people want to just completely destroy others.

Seeing what people write online, I've started to think the fear of destruction is a healthy thing to have. Maybe it gives writers an incentive to actually try a little, instead of just throwing their excrement in public and expecting everyone to love it.

Lukewarm, "yeaah mm aah err uuhhh it has some flaws but there's a lot of good underneath, you've got the gift dude just don't give up"-type of feedback does nothing. People are stupid, the recipient will interpret that only as "I'm awesome" and change nothing

>>16400242
>>16400261
>>16400271
>>16400333
>>16400687
My God, thanks a lot, I appreciate all that. I was off to do other things; including preparing myself to swallow up. Overall, I can't be more grateful.

I apologize for being a blatant ESL, I've only started buying English books since July hanks to halved college tuition. Imported printed books are pretty expensive here, I know I can practice from pirated PDFs but the feelings won't be the same.

I don't know if anons will notice me and give some feedbacks again if I posted a new chapter next time here. On the other hand my writing discord is too crowded they don't bother touching my stuff at all lol

>>16399614
Yeah, mostly when I get home from work and get all settled in, but I've been considering moving my mandatory 30mins to the morning before heading out. Not sure, but 30mins a day is a goal marker anyone can hit - I think that's why it helps with productivity, craft, confidence, etc..

>>16401766
>Lukewarm, "yeaah mm aah err uuhhh it has some flaws but there's a lot of good underneath, you've got the gift dude just don't give up"-type of feedback does nothing. People are stupid, the recipient will interpret that only as "I'm awesome" and change nothing
Yeah maybe because that's not actually feedback. How else would you expect someone to react if you gave them critique like that? The recipient will interpret that as a compliment and carry on because you gave no actionable feedback.

>>16402677
It's feedback, technically, but it's not criticism. And that's all normalfags dare to give, so that the poor creative soul wouldn't be wounded by the toxic negativity of an honest opinion.

What about finding a middle ground, you ask? There is none. To a lot of amateur writers, saying anything negative at all, no matter how neutrally worded and accompanied by compliments, is "unnecessary cruelty". So my opinion is to suspend with the smooth talk altogether and just call things as they are.

>>16402755
t. Wounded unappreciated hack writer

>>16401742
You gotta market yourself somehow. Even all the social rejects in this thread (myself included) will have to attend cons and the like, chatting up strangers, if we truly mean to be writers. Whether you're trad pub or self pub you're responsible for promoting yourself because no one else will unless you've already done the work to become somewhat of a household name
If you had a book on the way it wouldn't be the worst idea to build up trust with an education web to regularly promote your product to an annual conveyor belt of minds. There's doubtlessly better ways, but it's a way.

>>16402933
Your writing lacks introspection, insight and self examination.

>>16402942
Elaborate.

>>16402968
This is exactly what I’m talking about.

>>16402974
Cool, we've both gained nothing from this interaction :)

>>16403001
>we’ve both gained nothing
Pretty much what I expected from someone who lacks introspection, insight and self-examination.

>>16403014
If you're unwilling to put any effort into your words to better communicate, your energies would be better utilized elsewhere.

>>16403042
>spoonfeed me or you’re wasting your time
Is this the giant baby general thread?

>>16403052
Insulting someone without explaining it is just trolling. This is 4chan so there's not really anything wrong with that though

>>16403052
Is it not true that we're both wasting our time with this fruitless back and forth?

>>16403062
>tell someone they lack insight
>“gee, can you explain to me what you mean?”
>>16403066
While it’s true that I’m slumming a bit here, the only reasons (You) have gained nothing from this exchange are the very things I criticized you for initially.

>>16403082
Which I'd love to improve on but you're hardly handing me a fish here anon

>>16403113
>tell someone exactly what their problem is
>”can you just fix it for me too? I don’t really want to work on that issue”

>>16403117
Clearly I've failed to connect your three vague points to my post. I don't even know if you're criticism is contained to the post you initially replied to or the ones preceding it too, so there's added fog for me to try and comprehend where you're coming from. The other anon correctly assessed that it's difficult to put any faith in your supposed good will given the nature of the site, so why would I further waste my time attempting to see through your eyes if I'm not guaranteed they're even working?

>>16403151
That’s good anon, keep going, keep thinking your way through it.

>>16403158
These are things I initially thought after reading your first post. I won't delve any deeper unless you highlight something of importance. So no, you've done me no favor.

>>16403173
Good, that means you’re on the right track. However you aren’t there yet if the answer still eludes you.

>>16403113
You're reacting to this anon, despite the fact that he is just stringing you along and mocking you with vague judgements, because he has hit on your insecurities in some way. You should reflect on why exactly that is the case, but trying to get the answers to that from him is both meaningless and kind of pathetic. No one shits on you because they secretly wanted to gently guide and help you.

>>16403177
If it makes you feel better to see a flatland as your mountaintop by all means keep patting your own back

>>16403201
>yet another post lacking any meaningful insight
Color me surprised.

>>16403200
You're correct but we're also both clearly bored. Whatever chemical brain boost this is giving him can't possibly be worth the time, and I'm postponing getting out of bed by continually replying to this brick wall >>16403211

>>16403221
>graciously get told you lack introspection
>the kind soul liberating you from your ignorance is a “brick wall”
Pick one and then think about why you picked the one you picked.

>>16403242
>kind soul liberating you from your ignorance
You've done no such thing, as I've explicitly stated. If you use me as a mirror, perhaps one of us can benefit from this exchange. Looking forward to next reply :)

>>16403265
>can’t understand the lesson
>blames the teacher
Maybe I should post a little slower and enunciate clearer

>>16403270
If by enunciate you mean elaborate like I initially asked, sure! A worthy teacher would be capable of rising to such a simple request

>>16403282
>he doesn’t know the word enunciate
Another shocker anon

>>16403294
Alright your responses have devolved to a point where even my pathetic ass can't justify continuing. Get your last (You) in so you can "win" and we can mutually move on.

>>16403304
>mutually
I don’t know about that, I think I’ll leave you behind to think about this exchange and hopefully reflect on why you lack refined critical thinking

>>16402910
If I were a wounded writer, wouldn't I be campaigning for softer critique instead? Since I'm simultaneously inviting harshness towards my own works?

>>16403357
>circular logic
I said you were a hack writer, actually, and it looks like I was right.

>>16393116
You have to show it so that it will be torn apart, you see where it's bad and why, and then you can improve. Don't hold up progress. Embrace the fire.

>>16399958
It's cool. I like it. I would read more. A major improvement would be to intersperse the world building/intro paragraphs with text that has to do with a character that moves things along. So you open with the character in a city and walking along or whatever, and the world building text comes next which is then read in the character's voice as their inner monologue, what they are thinking about, how they see the world in their own way. Better than having it narrated by the void.

>>16400019
Always keep it up. The only way forward is forward. Just don't do it mindlessly. Slice with your mind's knife. Also I would go for much less cursing. It makes text flow but is largely frowned up as lazy characterization.

>>16400694
Ignore all that. Don't read any writing books or listen to writing advice. I'm not joking, 85 per cent of the advice is nonsense that will mess you up. It's mental masturbation and easily excused procrastination. Spend a month or more on that shit and feel like you did something when you didn't. Writing is learning about getting out of your own way + technical skill + understanding tension. I can give you concrete, actionable ways to learn. Not theory. Most people don't do it because then they have to actually do something and put in work instead of living in dream land.

Here's a rewrite of a short bit. Not done with it yet of course, just posting it.

The outlaw looked and saw over his shoulders and there in the distance flatter than sandstone are the dancing shadows of the two Marshalls flickering like flames. They are riding hard with the sun against their backs without rest and the horses they ride stare wide eyed and crazed, jerking and drooling, foam dripping from their cursped lips the hooves beating ceaselessly into the clay baked hide of the earth, their forms shivering in the heat spell like ghosts.

Goddammit bastards! The outlaw yelled, almost drooping off from his pony to the ground. His jackboots catch in the satchel and he twisted himself back on, sweat panting down his cheeks.

He looked back again and cupped his hands over his brow. He judged them to be a half days worth to him and it would be dark night when they would meet. He looked back to the front. He sees nothing but dry rock and webbed fissures where water flowed long ago. He looked past, the horizon is clumped in mountains humped and bent over like old men. He hit his legs cursing everything.

The horse he rides is ragged and small and he would not make it to the rising trunks before the Marshalls would be upon his nape.

He looked to his rust caked revolver swinging drippingly from his hip. He had only four shots. The powder he had once was gone lost along the path from his backside and the sights of the gun were bent and almost twisted. He then moaned, wincing. Under his arm the shirt sleeve is clotted in a ring of dark blood.

He wrapped the wound in dirt cloth again and for two hours he passed lonesome in the swelled heat spurring crazed the pony to move onwards. He would look in quick snaps and the Marshalls would be closer every time he gazed back and saw their black forms in a terrifying gallop.

The sun hanged low as the day would soon be handed off to night, streaked clouds blazing crimson stretched off before his sweating eyes. The desert widened in sound as the sun dipped. Snakes rattling their beaten tails hissing and bowing their necks clamping down on lizards who shot blood from their eyes in beady trails and prairie dogs barking like rats chasing coyotes pups in sardonic hordes until the young dogs tired and collapsed on stone beds and torn apart as taloned paws dug into flesh as though it were dirt and they were howling to the blood red moon hanging in the sky until the cries were cut bloodied by choking rasps.

Dark masses of bats flew upwards. Flapping their leather wings. They were thousands and like locusts as there eyes shined red in the faded sun squealing and swooping down and rising back up with small blue birds snatched in their claws and twitching.

Hushed shadows creep before the edges of his eyes. Whispers deep in the ground and bush sumter to his ears ringing hallow. Over a bend in a small hill he dips down still looking for the riders of which he had lost track of through the noise.

>>16403566
If this is parody it’s very good

>>16398174
Can I get a synopsis for all this based?
Also, I hear werewolf romance is a popular genre over at the kindle store. Keep that in mind in case trad publishing doesn't work

>>16403566
>The outlaw looked and saw over his shoulders
Does he have a long neck that brings his head behind his back, or are his eyes positioned at the end of separate tentacles? I'm not sure.

>>16401276
I don't think anything is necessary, but that's what came out when I decided to write it. Though later I realized I basically just wrote a worse version of Snow Crash without having read it.
>>16403552
Good point.

>>16403552
>Writing is learning about getting out of your own way + technical skill + understanding tension
My technical skills are woefully lacking as I've only been "writing" for a few years. I've dreamed up characters, settings, and stories, all my life, but always with the goal of it being on a screen. Since I've resigned myself to this medium for economic reasons, I want to do it well.
> I can give you concrete, actionable ways to learn. Not theory.
I'm all ears, especially if it means reading less and writing more, because despite how I may have sounded above, I do agree with you, and the more cinematic style I'm working towards requires me to carve my own path regardless of what the How to Write books teach.

>>16403566
Hey English-as-a-second-language kid, did you not read any of the editing or suggestions I made in the other thread?

Not even gonna finish reading your revisions because I can tell that you kept in all of the awkward sounding and shitty modifiers and present tense garbage without any of the additional work on syntax, grammar, and punctuations I did. This post is basically saying "Hey, you know that 15 minutes you spent meticulously trying to help a person who is struggling with the use of the English language? Yeah fuck you."

>>16403877
>I don't think anything is necessary

dude weed lmao

>>16402933
> will have to attend cons and the like, chatting up strangers
Fuck that, I’ll become an e-celeb on Twitter by shitposting.

>>16403552
>A major improvement would be to intersperse the world building/intro paragraphs with text that has to do with a character that moves things along. So you open with the character in a city and walking along or whatever, and the world building text comes next which is then read in the character's voice as their inner monologue, what they are thinking about, how they see the world in their own way. Better than having it narrated by the void.

Any more advice like this?

Here's an opening paragraph, does it come across as too wordy or edgy?

Father,

You taught me to be brutally strong, but I did not imagine that it would serve the purpose of avenging your death. Being so close to confronting your killer, I cannot help but feel a sense of purposelessness in my journey. If it is the last thing that I’m to experience, then I believe that my death should be horrifically painful. At the very least it will serve as atonement for the things that I have done to get this far.

>>16405009
It's neither but it's very uninteresting. All it tells us is we're being set up for a very typical revenge story.

>>16392801
>tfw it takes fucking ages for a publisher to get back to you

This is always the case regardless of an initial query or they've accepted the novel to read in its entirety. Most of the time they never even get back to you. As a writer, there is nothing worse than the submission process.

>>16404714
You'll have to be more specific. Pacing was the hardest thing for me to learn. Detail, but not too much detail. Plot has to move with each paragraph, but not too fast. Characters must be fleshed out, but no navel gazing. Learning to write is like learning to play music that you can't hear. There is a song to it, a rise and fall of beats and tension, in addition to lyrical flow, that hypnotizes the reader.

>>16403891
Select a contemporary, popular author you admire. Type out a chapter or more of one of their books exactly as it appears. Understand the rules they write by, specifically where they place punctuation. Use the pattern as your writing style. You will deviate from it eventually but the goal for now is to make it your default writing style as much as possible. This is hugely educational and the most important exercise that I did. Just don't do it mindlessly. You have to understand the logic behind the style, the benefits and drawbacks.

Next, book structure. Learn to write a proper chapter one. Focus on that because the book won't be much good until you can do chapter one. Here is a template. Think of it as a playground, not a prison. Each chapter is 1k-3k words. Chapter one (and ideally all chapters but especially chapter one) must function as a short story. What does this mean? There is a clear beginning, culmination of conflict, and ending that wraps up the short-term chapter specific conflict and opens up to more in... the next chapter. Think of many small arcs within a large arc. The small arcs can be seemingly mundane, but it's the structure of creating and closing loops that keeps the reader hooked -- like completing small quests in a video game.

Chapter one introduces the character in their ordinary life (whatever their ordinary is) and then X happens, the inciting incident, and they are on an adventure in which plot happens, but plot isn't that important. It's really just a vehicle for personal transformation and an excuse to have the character do interesting things. Stories are about internal desire and emotions. There needs to be tension on every page, and for that you need characters that deeply care and have goals. It doesn't matter how mundane the character's goals are on the surface. They become big, so to speak, by how much they care about them. Like a character who REALLY wants their cat to win a cat pageant... no matter the cost. How far are they willing to go? etc. etc.

>>16405233
I can see that now that I'm reading again, thanks for the feedback.

>>16405425
The entire industry just needs to be overhauled. Everything takes far too long. Even hearing back from a literary contest can take up to half a year for short stories. And it's painfully obvious that most publishers are heavily biased toward publishing certain authors and subject matter

I really think that online publishing is going to put a lot of traditional publishers out of business soon, much like streaming services are slowly strangling cable TV.

>>16402396
Good luck anon! Don't get discouraged it's just tough love. if it makes you feel any better i'm only a freedom-loving burger with english as my only language and even I struggle with making coherent prose and stuff at times too in first/third narratives.

English is a bastard language that's awful in every conceivable way, we should've just stuck with anglo-saxon english. Only nerds with useless English or creative writing degrees know all the completely bullshit rules that English has.

>>16405823
I agree, I try to use anglo-saxon words whenever I can. Sometimes I'll deliberately use French and Latin words with particular characters to subtly make them feel different.

>>16405823
we're all going to make it brah

>>16405823
English really does have a lot of completely bullshit rules. It's no surprise that the best writers are the ones who ignored a lot of them

I tripped on mushrooms and wrote this, the ending is not satisfactory but I’ll revisit it, open for feedback, I’ll try to come by and reply to people later


Choke on your spit
No place to hide it
Coughing up words
With a tongue too big for a throat

Language begots song
The one that plays inside your head
And as you walk along
One plays beside it

In a language you’ve constructed
As you’re being closely followed
By a wayward fellow

With nothing left to chew
Or then it chews beside you


And no matter what you do
The song continues
And the song to choose
Likes to interrupt you

With an audience bemused
To your organized lanes
Of arranged flowers
That become swept aside

the ending is not satisfactory but I’ll revisit it, open for feedback, I’ll try to come by and reply to people later


Choke on your spit
No place to hide it
Coughing up words
With a tongue too big for a throat

Language begots song
The one that plays inside your head
And as you walk along
One plays beside it

In a language you’ve constructed
As you’re being closely followed
By a wayward fellow

With nothing left to chew
Or then it chews beside you


And no matter what you do
The song continues
And the song to choose
Likes to interrupt you

With an audience bemused
To your organized lanes
Of arranged flowers
That become swept aside

>>16405793
> And it's painfully obvious that most publishers are heavily biased toward publishing certain authors and subject matter

So true. If you're a white cis male you might as well not bother and just publish yourself.

And in response to your reply about the length it takes for these fuckers to respond - i have this one publisher that I queried and it took them six months to accept. And now the reading and consideration period for my novel could possibly be another six months. I'm currently in the 4th month of waiting for them to get back to me. It's not even a long novel, why it takes so long is beyond me.

>>16406615
Why couldn't white cis makes simply pretend to be bisexual black women or trans Asian women? Make up a pen name

>>16406626
your publisher is going to find out your true identity rather quickly

This channel has unironically helped me craft better stories:
https://www.youtube.com/c/TylerMowery/videos

Any other easily digestible screenwriting resources worth checking out?

>>16405793
>Everything takes far too long.
Considering how much shit they get and how little paid agents are, it makes sense.

Try going through a critique thread that's almost full, and now do it every fucking day, when you have to find some gold in all the trash and if you fail, the rent becomes a big question.

>most publishers are heavily biased toward publishing certain authors and subject matter
It's a business, their job is to sell books; obviously they are biased to stuff that will sell better.

Online publishing has no future for most writers without a vetting process.

>>16406615
Maybe because your novel isn't the only one they have to read? You aren't even their client yet, which is their main work.

>>16405823
We're all gonna make it brah <3

>>16406647
This youtuber is cringe but based
https://www.youtube.com/c/TerribleWritingAdvice

Apparently his book sucks though.

>>16406714
The skills to teach others and doing it yourself are vastly different after all. Hence there are football managers who only played at shit-tier level for a few months but can still lead teams into CL.

Picture this:

- Alien planet setting with multiple sapient races/tribes/cultures/factions
- Humans are also present as a major faction
- Humans are not the POV of the story or direct allies to the POV
- Humans are not the main big bad villains coming to invade and exploit the world Avatar style

What's a good narrative role to give the human faction under those conditions?

>>16406770
They ask the other races what to do and follow in their steps. The conflict comes when two different races want to use humans for their purposes.

>>16406770
refugees who were forced to leave their homeland and just need a place to settle

like jews!

>>16406714
anyone who conveys this sort of information in a non sarcastic manner?

>>16406808
>>16406795
Combine these two. Humans were one of the newest space fairing races, and as such they continued seeking knowledge of other races, inadvertently circumventing thousands of years worth or treaties. After these technologies and methods had disseminated through the small human sector of space, races began being hostile to the humans, thinking they had become allies to other races. This lead to constant raids and all out attacks by some other races, destroying most the human habitations, leaving them sparse and varied in what tech they have at each of their small alcoves. Many of the human race immigrated to other races' systems, integrating into the local population.

This both lets you have human refugees as well as a large variety of different types of human planets.

>>16406635
Ok, why not simply pretend to be a black man? Lots of black men have "white" names and if you only speak over the phone, they'll never know what you look like, especially if you pretend that you're one of those blacks who speak with a white person accent

>>16406856
You guys realize that muh diversity is about selling the person and giving the story an extra touch, not just some checkbox, r-right?

To pull it off, the guy would also need to LARP as a darky on social media and have it inform his work somehow, say a black protagonist.

>>16406899
Does the story *have to* be touched by blackness, or can the story be a normal story, but the characters just happen to be black and no one notices that he's black? Like the black guy Finn in the new Star Wars

>>16406927
If it's a a story in a post-racism world, there isn't any need to make it about blackness, although given how publishers like to get their WOKE points … you'd probably still have to keep mention something about blackness in the interviews.

>>16406983
Is "wokeness" a fad that ends after the day of the rope, or is it a long term reality?

>>16397251
Damn anon I didn't read the rest of what you wrote but that passage about OP's dick was pretty good. You got a Wattpad by any chance?

>>16407022
Who knows. Advertising got more and more personal over time, and now brands even pretend to be personalities on social media. Jumping on safe causes to show they totally are the same as their readers just seems given. It's unlikely society will move on from racism in our life-time either, at best climate change will become the next hot topic … prepare making selfies how you eat insects to lower your CO2 output or something.

>want to be a poet and/or songwriter
>almost every time I post poems and or lyrics get laughed at
>prose is always almost always praised

>greatest writers were all jews
bros... is it over for us gentiles?

>>16407104
Lots of great writers were fags too. Maybe sucking a dick or two will do the trick.

How does one even hint one is Jewish in the bio part without making it obvious? I want to test the memes but my last name is Polish and I doubt that "immigrant from East Europe" is clear enough for the Jews in NYC to put two and two together. Guess I could use grannies name but then I'd need to make a new email. Life is too hard, bros.

>>16407139
Say that in your free time, you like to eat laks made fresh in your favorite local bagel shop

>write a draft with the intention of fixing all the problems with it after the first draft is done
>Send it for critique, get feedback
>Make a list of all the things that need fixing
>Suddenly want to move onto something else instead of fixing the current project
What the fuck is wrong with me.

>>16407229
Eating outside is too costly and against my religion though.

>>16407245
:^)

Fuck, I've never written much except for my diary desu, but I found a game dev offer to write dialogues for an erotic VN in English (not my first language). I have played a few VNs before and I'm learning Japanese at the moment, so I know the culture of it quite well, but it's my writing and creativity that's pretty clunky. Pay is good. I've never worked before, especially as a writer. Should I try it?

>>16407682
It's sad that the best way to make money in art is via porn (literotica, furry porn)

>>16407682
Since you don't have a job, I don't see how it could hurt. The job market is pretty rough right now too, with all of the unemployment due to Coronavirus

>>16405562
Not the guy who was asking for advice but this is really helpful advice I'm going to try out. I immediately jumped on reading books to try to learn how to write better but so far I've only been writing slower, this sounds so much more useful

Outline of Blackula

> Chapter 1: Jamarcus Harker goes to Transylvania

Jamarcus is traveling to Transylvania to help Count Blackula complete paperwork to purchase some property in England. He is writing a letter to Moesha, his fiancée.
In his letters, he describes all the scenery and food that he eats. It’s Hungarian food, but with an African twist. This shows the reader that Hungary is full of black people. Jamarcus is also black, so the food makes him feel comfortable. But he is British black, and the food is Hungarian black, so it’s like visiting a different black culture. Europe is all black. This is important. He reminds himself to get the recipe so he and Moesha can replicate it back at home.

He arrives at a small Hungarian black inn, where there is a letter from Count Blackula waiting for him. The letter contains directions to meet Count Blackula in his castle in the Carpathian Mountains. Jamarcus has to take a cab to a certain landmark at 11 pm, at which point Blackula’s servant will take him to his final destination to Castle Blackula.

After Jamarcus spends the night at the inn, he gets ready to go in a carriage to meet Count Blackula. A Romanian woman tells Jamarcus to fear Count Blackula and to not meet him. She speaks broken English and German. Jamarcus can speak English and German, but not Romanian or Hungarian. This is important because it shows that Jamarcus is very educated and black, and black people are very smart. Even the village Hungarian woman is somewhat smart, as she understands her native Hungarian language but also a little bit of English and German.

The Hungarian woman tells Jamarcus that it’s Saint George Floyd’s Day, the holiday when the spirits are at their strongest. He mustn’t go to Castle Blackula! But Jamarcus still wants to go. It’s his job to help Blackula complete the paperwork. The woman sighs. She gives Jamarcus a good luck charm necklace. She is not of his black religion, but he politely accepts her charm necklace anyway. In Jamarcus’s black Christianity religion (Baptist?), he doesn’t like idols, but he is so moved by the woman’s gesture that he wears it anyway.
As he gets into the carriage, a crowd of black Hungarians and black Romanians gather around his carriage and pray for him. They speak in their own language, words that mean werewolf and vampire. The other passengers in the carriage give him little gifts that will ward off any evil spirits. The carriage driver is apprehensive and tries to make his horses run faster than normal. Jamarcus can read the room and feels a bit anxious. He tells the driver that he can take his him, but the driver keeps pushing his horses.

>>16407945

The carriage arrives at the landmark an hour early. The carriage driver says that maybe Blackula won’t be able to meet them, since he didn’t know that they would be here so early. And he cannot wait here because his other passengers have to get to their destination. The driver suggests that Jamarcus meet with Blackula tomorrow.

Suddenly, Blackula’s personal carriage appears. The Count’s carriage driver is very tall and scary. He tells Jamarcus’s driver that no, Jamarcus will not be meeting Blackula tomorrow, but today. He cannot fool Blackula, for Blackula sees all that happens on his estate. The village carriage driver stutters an apology. Jamarcus gets into Blackula’s carriage and for the first time, he hesitates.

Blackula’s carriage seems to go at lightspeed, but also seems to be traversing the same area over and over and over. The driver sees a floating blue sphere and inspects it. Jamarcus thinks that he can see the flame right through the driver. The driver keeps finding similar flames. Each time he touches a flame, the carriage goes faster and faster. Jamarcus passes out.

I just realized there's no good reason for the characters in my story not to be wearing body armor at all times and it actually should have come up by now

>>16408046
I don't like wearing clothes at all, maybe besides my underwear. Maybe your characters don't want to wear 50 lbs of armor all the time

>>16408053
okay, maybe not at all times, but all the same they realistically should have some kind of body armor.

I guess I can justify it in this first book by the fact that the coins they would need to scavenge to make improvised scale mail aren't readily available, but all the same it strikes me as a clever idea to work in

>>16407682
>I found a game dev offer to write dialogues for an erotic VN
>in English (not my first language)
>I've never written much except for my diary
>I've never worked before

Sounds like you're the perfect guy for the job. It's not like erogames are known for riveting dialogue.

>>16406770
So what role do humans have, exactly?

>>16405009
>You taught me to be brutally strong
Unintentionally comical adverb use.
>I did not imagine that it would serve the purpose of avenging your death
You're being both too banal and too flowery at the same time. "You gave me a dollar, I did not imagine it would serve the purpose of buying a sausage!"
>purposelessness
Try say that out loud ten times.
>If it is the last thing that I’m to experience, then I believe that my death should be horrifically painful
So if it's not the last thing he experiences, he could settle for a less painful death instead?
>At the very least it will serve as atonement for the things that I have done to get this far.
So he's okay with not atoning if there's afterlife?

Basically, you're remaking Monte Cristo, but the first 300 pages were summarized in the opening paragraph?

>>16407069
I've never even attempted to criticise poetry because made by a master or a beginner, it's all just boring gibberish to me

>>16408612
Is English your second language?

>>16408636
Why would I read only English poetry if I were ESL?

bump

Bump

>>16407945
>Jamarcus is traveling to Transylvania to help Count Blackula complete paperwork to purchase some property in England.
Wait what. How did that even start? What is their connection? Rest is fine, although hard to tell whether you're going for a parody or not.

>>16410201
That's how the original novel starts. Dracula wants to buy property in England, and some British law firm sends lawyer John to Romania to help Dracula process the paperwork

Since this appears to be the new /crit/, can I get some feedback on this. It's not meant to be published, just an exercise in being less purple and finding a new style.
The hotel had been her home since arriving, a place of lives in transit waiting for their own rocks to stop rolling, waiting for the gathering of moss and the growing of roots into soil wherever they might land. Running from Them had been a tiring effort but she believed she had finally found a place to rest here among the fluorescent lights and traveling salesmen wearing beige suits.
Traveling salesmen had always been one of her biggest fears. Each roving group could be carrying some doomsday technology in the form of outdated exercise equipment, vacuums promised to be the last you’d ever buy, nutrients and diets toeing the line of the latest fads brought from some distant coast, perhaps even an odd volume of an encyclopedia, yes that would really ruffle her feathers wouldn’t it, an encyclopedia of conspiracy theories arranged in ascending value of possibility, that would really get its teeth down in her precious mind. Such fear was, of course, unfounded, but that was only for those unaware of the real motivations of salesmen. Their insidious goals were apparent to her, it didn’t matter how They tried to hide, she could see through their thinly veiled disguises.
Morning proceeds as she steps off the elevator in the lobby. Lilac and rose are hanging in the air as a pack of obese women on their way to church congregate in front of the desk. Their hats are each more ridiculous than the last, pompous feathers on parade in hope of attracting the attention of some apathetic God worshiped without any real understanding of the holy machinations at play. Perfume turned her stomach more than the smell of dead animals. Sickly coverings of unwashed armpits and dead skin flaking from feet. It made her want to vomit.

>>16410349
What does that mean, you want to be less purple? Do you mean a mix between blue and red pilled?

>>16410353
>pur·ple prose
>/ˈpərpəl prōz/
>noun
>prose that is too elaborate or ornate.

>>16410353
Purple prose.
The feedback I've gotten in previous threads has consistently been to tone it down so that's exactly what I did. I'd still like to go on tangents of waxing poetic but I'm thinking of taking a bit of Pynchon's style and only using my super purple pedantic bullshit when one of the characters is having a fit of paranoia or a dream or something like that.

>>16410304
>and some British law firm sends lawyer
That part would've helped. Also an opportunity to talk about black businesses.

>>16410349
>Since this appears to be the new /crit/
It isn't. Though there are no hard rules...

>a place of lives in transit waiting for their own rocks to stop rolling, waiting for the gathering of moss and the growing of roots into soil wherever they might land.
Yes, that's what a hotel kinda is. I don't see how this adds anything. If you want to add observations, they should ideally be a bit more profound and show some unique insight or angle than the equivalent of "a train station is where the trains stop"
>Such fear was, of course, unfounded, but that was only for those unaware of the real motivations of salesmen.
Also pointless to state that.
>a pack of obese women
Is a pack really the best word here? I'd look into synonyms for a group of whales or herd animals.

Though it kinda feels lifeless more than anything. I don't feel the voice of the character nor what the problem is. For someone who's on a run, she seems way too casual and easily distracted by random shit.

>>16410407
I don't want to harp on muh original novel, but in the original Dracula, Stoker doesn't reveal that John is a lawyer until he reaches Castle Dracula. Until then, John tries to ignore all the Eastern European peasants who beg him to not go. He vaguely says he must pay on to Romania, because business.

The reveal of John being a lawyer is a good passage for blackification, because John recently passed his bar exam. He's finally a real lawyer, after years of working as a lawyer's assistant. I can write something about black people being really smart, hard working, and educated.

>>16410566
*push on to Romania

>>16410566
It might not stand out in writing so much but at least for the outline it sounds fucking weird that a random foreigner would look for some guy who wanted to invest into his country.

Do you even need that detailed of an outline for a chapter when you take another plot 1-1 and just replace the names, skin colors and add some cultural touches like British black food and Hungarian black food?

>>16410201
I do want a serious feel though, not a parody. The original book has John arrive on St. George's Day, but changing it to St. George Floyd's Day is pushing it. St. Jerome's Day?

>>16392964
currently have 200k words into a work that's basically the Epic of Gilgamesh (and other Sumerian myths) on crack

>>16410619
> Do you even need that detailed of an outline for a chapter when you take another plot 1-1 and just replace the names, skin colors and add some cultural touches like British black food and Hungarian black food?
Yes ... I want to remember all possible ways to change European things --> black things

>>16410638
>it shows that Jamarcus is very educated and black, and black people are very smart
It's shit like that that gives it parody vibes. You established he's black and Europe being black already. Adding black this and black that to everything afterwards does nothing. Nor does any semi-sane reader doubt that black people can be very smart. Him being a lawyer already codes him as smart or at least educated.

>>16410696
I do sometimes wonder, in a world full of black people, does affirmative action and oppression (by whites) even exist? And being a lawyer is a normal achievement, not the sort of "my ancestors were slaves and now I'm a lawyer" sort of achievement. But then again, black people like blackification, it's woke isn't it?

>>16410730
>And being a lawyer is a normal achievement, not the sort of "my ancestors were slaves and now I'm a lawyer"
Statistically blacks fail the bar exam more than any other race and every black law student I met celebrated the achievement as if they had singlehandedly conducted the moon landing.

Is there a better site than Royalroad to post original fiction on?

>>16410761
4chan of course.

>>16410761
Amazon KDP

>>16410761
If you're not aiming for traditional publishing, you need to fuck out from this thread.

>>16410730
Why would it be any different to how it is for whites in our GO WHITES world? People would still judge each others on looks, family status, money and so on. Even colorism kinda exists for crackers, when back in the day being pale white was the most desirable but the trend is about fake tan now.

Lawyer wouldn't be a big deal for someone in a family of academics but if some working class fag managed it, it's going to get celebrated of course.

>>16410761
Wattpad is probably even bigger.

>>16410782
Enjoy your zero readers

>>16410794
as opposed to the "how many" I have now?

>>16410857
What are you trying to say?

>>16410868
No one reads me now.
Being on KDP, RR, or Wattpad changes nothing.

>>16410787
Only a certain kind of writer desires to devotedly fondle a New York Jew's sensibilities in return for a slave's share of profit. The percentage of people who hold that desire is much lower here than in the general population.

>>16410965
Yeah, it's the fucking Jews why I can't get my experimental novel with subversive philosophical themes about a white male writer who can't get laid published.

Someone give me a fun writing prompt + word to use in the flash fiction. I need to practice today.

>>16411020
Oil rig worker quits job and becomes botanist seeking to redeem himself.

The word to use is placate

>>16411008
I'll be the one to break it to you: Your novel wouldn't sell even if it was published. Nor would you gain prestige.

I want to write a book about boats. I picked up a ton from the books I’ve read, but are there any good reference materials on boats from the 1700s and 1800s? I don’t want to have to look through 20 Aubrey/Matchurin books to find out how many men each gun crew had and what their ranks typically were, for example.

>>16411065
I'll write some hundreds of words about it after work and post it

>>16410790
Isn't wattpad filled with ya self insert fanfiction?

>>16411142
Self-published sites of any kinda are filled with self insert fanfiction.

>>16411190
Fair enough, but as far as I was aware Wattpad was especially bad. Atleast the garbage on royalroad tries to make somewhat original characters, even if they end up being very generic.

>>16411234
I found the stuff on Wattpad a bit more read-able overall, but yeah, the focus seems more on YA-like stuff while RR goes more into sci-fi/fantasy.

Finding anything passable is painful on either.

>>16392801
Currently reading Save the Cat. It is very good and made me realize a lot of things, but the american anglo language he uses makes me want to fucking kill myself.

https://youtu.be/BaYiKbvl9mU

I don't know if you guys found about this yet, but you can always steal some paragraph or two from the comment section from this channel. It reeks of naive pseudo-writers trying to look cool.

>>16410875
Yeah, cool, but if you actually want readers, going on kindle with a price tag is not the most certain path to get any. RR, Wattpad, and such like actually have people who read almost anything.

>>16411315
>naive pseudo-writers trying to look cool
Very /lit/ of them.

How I feel when everyone else in my creative writing class sucks penis compared to me.

Hey anons, here's a little beginner I wrote today. Probably needs some Grammer editing although I'm not too concerned about that. I just want to see how it reads to other people. See what can be changed in terms of how it's written etc. Might develop it into a mob/adventure plot.

https://pastebin.com/kypPRbBQ

>>16410761
Wish I knew.

I'm working on an experimental little fantasy story where the MC breaks the fourth wall constantly and pokes some (good-natured but unapologetic) fun at virtually everything and everyone. RR is kinda strict about real life references and I suspect I'll only get the story deleted for racism, joking about religion, and whatnot, if I try to post it there.

Wattpad's rules seem a little more reasonable, but the site itself looks like such a normalfag nest, the readers will probably lynch me before long. Then there's Scribblehub which has basically no rules at all, but nobody there reads anything either. And I'd like to think my story is a little better than all the barely English anime smut and gay shit I'd be competing with for attention.

All the other sites I've come across, like webnovel.com, are basically just chink datamines, where the site makes money off your shit. So I'm really all out of ideas.

>>16411624
You could try fanfiction net's orginial fiction site. As for me I'm just gonna stick with RR.

>>16411624
>good-natured racism is better than barely English anime smut
Meh.

>>16411680
Posted some shit there forever ago, but hate the UI and formatting. The site is ugly as sin.

>>16411687
The idea isn't to point fingers at niggers, but laugh at the protagonist for being comically prejudiced. It's hardly the main focus of the narrative, but I can already tell 99% of the readers will just call me a racist.

>>16401231
I laughed:)

>>16410790
> Even colorism kinda exists for crackers, when back in the day being pale white was the most desirable but the trend is about fake tan now
That's not colorism in the normal sense of the word. Besides, people only care about other people's tans as polite conversation about what they did that weekend

>set myself a 500 word goal per day
>it's 3:40 AM
>sit down to write
>instantly come up with some sub-plot about a duel
>write it, it's pretty action-packed
>look at time, it's 4:25 AM
>select the amount I just wrote
>1200ish words. I must have been an a weird fury today.
Books for this feel?

>>16396064
If you want to write for women in the 40+ age bracket then yes. They are the largest reading demographic and love that shit.

>>16411797
>people only care about other people's tans as polite conversation about what they did that weekend
Dunno, I got lots of shit as a kid for being pale white. There were often the dumb "omg, are you sick/dead?" jokes too. Obviously also generally feeling excluded by conventional standards of beauty.

Of course it's not anywhere close to colorism inside the black community and doesn't impact my chances in society but it's not like the color of your skin it's a completely irrelevant when you're white either.

>>16411730
A lot depends on the execution. Basically no one is calling Borat or Sashas other characters or him racist because it's done well and points the finger back at the audience and other racists interacting with him. If you're going to touch sensitive topics, you better do it exceptionally well; otherwise it just distracts from the rest.

>>16411065
>>16411106
1/2

“What I’m saying is I can’t do it anymore,” said John. He took off his hardhat and squinted through the harsh florescent light beaming down from his foreman’s office.

Frank looked up from the scattering of papers on his desk, leaned back, and rubbed the bridge of his nose. “The hell you talking about?”

“Jesus Christ, Frank. I’m saying that I quit.”

Frank shook his head while staring daggers at John. “What’s this about, huh? You got your raise, didn’t ya?” His face turned red, anger rising. “The transport won’t be here til next month. You can’t just quit.”

John gently placed his hardhat on Frank’s desk. “Yeah, well, I just did.”

He hadn’t planned to feel guilty about it, but there it was. There wasn’t a man on the rig who wasn’t a selfish, crude bastard. John was one of them. He was well within his contract to quit. It still made him a quitter. Letting down the team when there was good oil to be drilled.

Frank shot up from his chair. “Oh, fuck. Don’t tell me it was that Green Peace boat.”

John smiled grimly. “Nothing like that. Actually, I want to stay here.”

Frank goggled at him, entering a silent conniption that lasted well over a minute. “You… You what?”

“I want to stay. See, I’m a trained botanist. Paleobotanist to be specific. Never became one, but I know how, if you get my meaning.”

Frank shook his head back and forth in small movements as John explained, unable to believe his ears.

“I’ve been reading at nights. Textbooks and that kind of thing. Those bags I brought? Science equipment.”

“John… What are you…” Frank struggled to find words.

John charged on, voice steady and confident. “The world needs oil. I know that as much as the next guy. But what I’m after is so much more.” His eyes took on a foxlight glow. “There are plants down there, Frank. I’ve seen them. Big, beautiful cherubins of the sea. No one knows about them but me.” He laughed and ran an oil-stained hand through his sweaty mess of hair. “Shit, I sound crazy, don’t I? It’s luck that landed me here. So I’ve gotta quit. You can see that, right?”

Frank had heard enough. He picked up his landline. It was time to call Mr. Vandele and put and end to this.

>>16412127
2/2

John slapped the receiver from his hand. It flew across the room and hit the window, dangled off the end of Frank’s desk by the curled telephone cord.

John raised both hands palm out to show he didn’t mean violence. “There’s a lot of money in this, Frank. Don’t spoil this. You’ll get a cut. The rest of the crew, too. All I’m asking for is a minute. Come to my cabin and I’ll show you everything. If you still think I’m crazy after that, well, you make your call.”

They got to John’s cabin and he gave Frank a line of his big boy coke to placate him. This wired the foreman and made him suggestible. Then John tossed a stack of underwater photos on the small metal table. Each one was a different shot of the cherubin plant.

“Oh… fuck me!” Frank cried and pissed himself.

“It’s OK,” John said calmly. “Happened to me the first time too.”

But it wasn’t going well for Frank. He knuckled his ears and rocked back and forth like a baby in a storm.

“Think of it as a dinosaur,” John suggested. He glanced at a photo of the cherubin’s swaying arms, blinkless eyes, and stalk that shot straight down into the pitch cold abyss.

“It’s been there a long time,” John whispered in Frank’s ear. His foreman moaned and shifted away, but John moved closer, persistent. “It’s old, weak. All we need to do is catch it, hurt it a little. Then it’ll do the drilling for us. No more machines, Frank. All profit."

>>16412108
>A lot depends on the execution
Well, the main problem here is that certain topics are outright prohibited by the rules of these sites, regardless of execution, and there are no good alternatives. If anyone had experience with platforms other than those mentioned, it'd be nice.

>>16412501
Is a sort of more PG version possible for the popular sites a la censored rap albums or going around by changing "offensive" words into something funny sounding? In your profile/online presence you can link towards the explicit one, maybe even under some $1 Amazon self-publishing paywall.

>>16412108
>Basically no one is calling Borat or Sashas other characters or him racist

Do you live under a rock? That guy's shit used to always cause massive controversy around the world and him being accused of racism was barely the tip of the iceberg. Though his gimmick got old pretty fast, and most people don't even remember he exists anymore

>Write literally one sentence in the story outline.
>Suddenly all of my writers block dissapears and I know exactly what I need to write.

The importance of a story outline can't be overstated anons. Try it if you're struggling.

>>16411826
Disappointment. I don't know who by, but I'm sure there's a book by that name somewhere. 500 words is pathetic, and 1200 isn't much better.

>>16413441
Consistency is what matters. 1k/day amounts to a 60,000 word book in two months.

>>16392801
this thing needs a pasta

>fantasize grief scenes after MC gets his childhood friend killed who is totally not inspired by a girl I know
>it's in chapter 30
>could maybe squeeze in flashbacks about fun times in chapter 24
>I'm still at chapter 0
Feels bad yo.

>>16414444
Delicious quints. My friend you need to write. So much will change as you go.

>>16413110
How do you write an outline?

>Start here
>Do this
>Go there
>Kill that
>Cliffhanger
this sort of thing?

>>16413828
I posted one in the previous thread and the OP didn't give a shit to copy it over. There are even writing book charts too. Ah well.

>>16414928
:)

I need to figure out a way to write even when my writing feels like dogshit.

I'm debating trying a trick I heard where I type everything out in comic sans because it's impossible for you to take your writing seriously when you do that

>>16415168

>>16414829
Don't ask that anon, he considers one sentence to be a helpful outline.

>>16415216
Pretty sure he meant writing one sentence TO the outline.

Besides, they generally don't need to be that long to be helpful. Depends on your writing style too.

I generally work with 2-3 sentences per chapter, which I might expand into half a page stuff. Usually it did the trick to advance, even though I often get stuck at smaller bits when writing, which are fun to solve ... but pretty time intensive too. Then again, I doubt I could work with longer outlines, I don't like knowing too much from the get go.

>>16415168
I type all my stuff in font size 18. I feel more accomplished typing "more pages" and it keeps me encouraged

>>16415261
>I don't like knowing too much from the get go
I guess that keeps your story from being too predictable since even you don't know where it's going

>>16415530
Well, after the outline stage I do know the key stuff but I still leave myself room between the core developments and keep many situations with multiple choices that could be worked into things.

Say I got
>X convinces Y to join him
or
>A fights B and escapes
or
>C argues on the phone with her father and gets an invitation to event Z
Due knowing the characters, I can assume how it proceeds but there isn't necessary just one way and the scenes can be expanded or kept shorter. In the last example all I need for the plot is foreshadow her being at Z; the call itself can be used for more information about something plot relevant, and/or about her character, or kept in the background while I focus on stuff happening with her during the call.

Usually it leads to discovery of some fun detail or a semi-unexpected but logical scene which fleshes out things better that I could think off in the outline. The downsides are obvious.

>>16412657
I thought about it, but it's not really viable. The whole theme of the story is breaking boundaries and pushing the limits of decency, while seeking this sort of brutally honest, raw expression. If I prettied it up, there would simply be no story.

And I really hate people who do that censored/uncensored crap. I mean, if you CAN and WANT to do an all-ages version of your story, then why would you ever do it any other way?

>>16392801
What's a good way to minimize dialogue?

>>16416145
Tell don't show. "They had an argument." can save you thousands of words.