/lit/ - Literature

Conan sucks.

>>16353695
:(

Fuck E William Brown.
FUCK HIM AND FUCK PAYPIGS!

im addicted to YA coming of age fantasy

>>16353714
What are some good ones?

>>16353687
Mistborn's Hero of Ages prophecy was well-done.

I'm about to finish this shit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XZDZWG3 it's the first fantasy/mild-litRPG/advancement/etc. thing I've found where the litRPG element is unknown, i.e., the characters don't know anything about why the 'World Seed' controls the world, remark upon how certain quest rewards are better than others so it's obviously streamlining people into specific courses of action, not a video game or VR (or if it is, the 'players' aren't aware), etc. I've actually been interested in finding something like this so it was only a matter of time. The writing is decent although weirdly graphic/sexual at times. Probably worth a read for its distinctness in the genre.

Afterward, I'll start the Kobalos trilogy with its short story prequel: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GUSEGW
I've almost hit my yearly book goal so I think I'll continue the trend of increasing it by +10.

I need coomer lit, please help.
I ran through most self pubbed trash.

>>16353774
literotica is your friend

Has anyone read Vances Cadwal Chronicles? If so, how is it?

I'm reading Dune and it feels very theatrical. That's the only word I've found to really describe it. It feels like an opera, the way the scenes are composed and the way we continually get asides to every character's thoughts, and the way the tragic fates of the major characters are revealed to you at the start. I've never seen anybody mention this quality of Dune before so it was surprising to encounter it.

>>16353909
You just outed yourself as a readlet. Dune is probably your first book you weren't forced to read a la school.

>>16353909
>>16353925
dune is mediocre and the sequels are trash

>>16353875
/sffg/ has an anon who is an in-the-closet homosexual (I'm not kidding) who gets extremely stressed out and upset whenever Conan is brought up because mental images of Conan causes him to question his sexuality. I'm not making any of this up. He has complained numerous times over the PORTRAYAL of Conan as muscular and masculine and no straight man secure in his sexuality would ever have a problem with any male character being portrayed as such.

See: >>16353695

>>16353983
kek. I have not checked this thread.

>>16353983
That's more of an /outerlit/ story rather than /sffg/ story unless you add some speculative elements to it.

>>16353985
It's because I've been trolling the shit out of him and now he constantly has Conan on his mind. He thinks I'm half the regular anons in this general.

>>16353925
I don't read sci-fi as a general rule, I prefer fantasy. Also no school I ever attended ever assigned genre fiction for mandatory reading, let alone sci-fi. Then again, I was privately schooled, so maybe that's a thing public schools do.

>>16353974
your are a faggot and in severe need of hanging.

>>16354046
There he goes again lol

>>16353974
Never said otherwise, just telling the anon the reason he is feeling so profound with a mediocre book is because he is a readlet.

>>16354043
>>>/tv/ you're probably here because of the new movie. Neck yourself with your boring dry (kek) tomme

>>16354060
nice assumptions there faggot. Keep being a shit-taste pleb.

>>16354063
You assume people are trannies all the time, cuck.

What if I’m bisexual and both want to be Conan and fuck Conan?

>>16354071
I don't assume, I know that you are dilator.
So the faggot who seethes about Dune also cries about Conan.

>>16354043
blow it out your ass, dunelet

>>16354093
better then 99.8% of the sci-fi dipshit.

>>16354103
>I'm hyped for the movie and must defend it, even though I don't read
>I will start defending WoT when the series is airing
Neck yourself.

>>16354108
nice assumptions there faggot. It seems like you are projecting tourist.

>>16354103
>a hard shit is better than 99.8% of diarrhea

>>16354117
tourist exposes himself. What are you even doing here retard?

>>16354004
Truly what a worthwhile cause you've championed.

>thread just started
>32 posts 13 users
>conan cuck fucks it up again with shitposting
I guess sffg is eternally in a loop.

>>16354216
Escape

>>16354004
Based easily entertained anon

>>16354108
>I'm hyped for the movie and must defend it, even though I don't read

No one here is hyped for a Hollywood production.
We all know it's going to be an edulcorated version of the Dune universe, which will pander to the star wars dummies.
For example I bet Vladimir Harkonnen's despicable and degenerate need for young boys in order to satisfy his homo/pedo urges, WILL NOT be included in a hollywood production.
For obvious reasons.

>>16354216
LEAVE
THE
CLOSET

>>16354337
Based

>>16354093
based

>>16353687
A Little Hatred, The Age of Madness #1 / First Law World #8 - Joe Abercrombie (2019)
While it's not required to have read the original trilogy or the standalone books before you read this, I think it would be rather silly to not have done so. The book starts around 28 years following the conclusion of the trilogy, so if you were expecting a direct continuation of the trilogy, that isn't what this is. It's not a continuation of the intervening books either. Even without the time skip, this would probably be less of a thematic continuation as well than some may be expecting.
By comparison to the original trilogy, this book has more political relevance to contemporary events. There are concerns about automation, working conditions, protests, inequality, inadequate political representation, non-white immigration into predominately white locales, and other matters of contention. I was reminded that one person's schadenfreude is another person's gratuitous misery porn, so political inclinations may play a greater role in enjoyment than with the previous books, if only because they are more resonant with our modern times.
As with all the previous Abercrombie books the characters eschew the traditional conventions of fantasy morality and regularly do rather atrocious and deviant acts to and with each other. Though, if my recent reading is any indication, this may be more the new standard rather than an outlier. Books that are populated with characters that are paragons of good and evil tend to be less exciting and amusing for me, so I appreciate it when they aren't.
Almost every viewpoint character is the child of a character from the previous trilogy, so there's a definite emphasis on legacy of the previous trilogy. Some may be concerned that as a result, among other reasons, that the trilogy may remain in the shadow of the previous trilogy, but that may be a premature conclusion. I'll withhold judgement on that matter until the trilogy is finished as I don't think it's worthwhile to compare the entirety of one trilogy to the beginning of another.
The next two books seem like they will be about extreme social upheaval where all traditions, the old ways and the old guard, are swept away by the tides of change well before they were ready. All that remains will be have been transfigured into Modernity. I expect to enjoy it. Others who believe we're undergoing excessive social upheaval ourselves may find it to be too much.
Rating: 4/5

>>16353737
Choice of magic

What the fuck was going on in this?

>>16354605
>By comparison to the original trilogy, this book has more political relevance to contemporary events
That's just Abercrombie being Abercrombie. He basically made a fantasy universe that is always at whatever level of development he wants, so he can make any story from any era in that world
>sure, we totally have Italian citystate squabbling and mercenaries
>sure, we totally have the Wild West
>sure we totally have the Inquisition
I love it

>>16354605
>>16354757
Y
I
K
E
S

>>16353774
literotica.com and nifty.org

>>16354969
>nifty.org
I'm only seeing faggot, dyke, double faggot and tranny sections.

>>16355041
http://www.joinforjoy.com/erotic_stories/stories/main.htm
asstr is a well-known sex story site, but you pretty much already have to know what you're looking for there
this is an archive of loads of the best stories from there

Is there a guide for Asimov?

>>16355203
I doubt it.
Only useful thing I have found out is that you start with 1951 Foundation, if you intend to read that series.

To the guy who said to get this, it's not on b-ok or MAM. What is your next best option?

>>16355836
Not that guy but I found mine at the bookstore.

Another book another meme image

I don't have much to say about Ubik. It was fine, but I can't see why it's an exalted classic

>>16355836
http://libgen.rs/fiction/?q=conan+chronicles

>>131452
>why even play arknights now, you'll get the operators later probably

>>16355855
Thanks anon, though epub only is a pain.

>>16355847
Nice one grampa

>>16355836
There are few things more contemptible in life than computer illiterate nerds.

>>16355836
Do not get that. It's an inferior collection. Download/buy these books:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074CB1LWY?searchxofy=true&ref_=dbs_s_aps_series_rwt

>>16355912
What's the difference?

>>16355937
The stories are how they were originally written by Howard himself. That big, fat collection has some stories that were edited. It's the equivalent of watching a movie cut or uncut. Plus those three books have tons of great art and other extras that big collection doesn't have. Overall it's just a superior collection.

>>16355937
The difference is the Gollancz hardcover is $40 and readily available while the Del Ray hardcover collection is $300 and out of print.

>>16355836
It is on b-ok though.

Are there any good urban fantasies?

>>16355994
My ancient kindle doesn't handle art well but I don't want edited shit. Are those books you recommended on b-ok or libgen or MAM?

>>16355937
>>16355994
From a *eddit:
>First, there's an all-in-one volume from Gollancz called The Complete Chronicles of Conan. This edition uses the original texts as they were published in Weird Tales.
>Second, there's a series of collections from Del Rey including The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, The Bloody Crown of Conan, and The Conquering Sword of Conan. This edition uses the original manuscripts as they were written by Howard.

Both are apparently arranged in publication order.

>>16356320
So the complete chronicles aren't edited as the other anon suggested?

>>16356462
Yes they are edited since they're the versions taken from Weird Tales. The Del Rey collection has the stories as they were originally written by Howard. And the Del Rey collection is in written order (as much as was known anyways).

>>16356462
Buy whatever collection you want; so long as more of you are reading based Conan. I'm just trying to make sure you anons read the best version of Conan.

>>16356492
So they were edited by the 1930s publisher? Was it sex and gore edited, or spelling and punctuation edited?

>>16356518
Neither; Weird Tales, if anything, wanted more gore and sex (specifically sex). But the editor was a typical editor in that if he personally didn't like something he'd cut it out or forced the writer to change it. The Del Rey collection has the stories as Howard wanted YOU to read them; no one else. Either collection is fine, but as I said in a previous post; it's the difference between watching a movie either cut or uncut.

>>16356559
I think you're being a bit disingenuous. It's more like Director's Cut vs Release Cut. I certainly wouldn't pick George Lucas's "artistic vision" over the original star wars movies, for example. I feel like you are/were intentionally trying to make it sound like one version was butchered or outright censored.

Okay, here's a download for the Conan books. I took the time in making a zip with both editions.
The 3 volumes from Del Rey are 100% retail epubs. The Gollancz is probably the same as the one on ZLibrary, but after inspecting the EPUB, it looks like a retail copy as well (html and CSS tags compliant with publisher standards and naming conventions).
>https://files.catbox.moe/ucq4dz.zip

>>16356518
I haven't read either but I doubt the differences are considerable.
>In addition, in the case of stories which appeared in Weird Tales, [Gollancz] uses the typescripts and titles as they were published, not from Howard’s original documents. In the case of the stories and fragments which did not appear in Weird Tales, versions edited by De Camp were used.
And
http://www.barbariankeep.com/edited.html

>>16356608
All I literally said was the Gollancz collection has the edited versions of the stories whereas the Del Rey collection has the stories as they were originally written by Howard. No where did I make it seem like they were "butchered or outright censored." That's all on you. But I'm over this anyways. I was just trying to make sure you read the best version of those stories as Howard originally intended.

>>16356638
Well, calling it 'inferior' is pretty loaded right off the bat.

>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GCYHJNX 16 books
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074C4R168 17
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074C5PQQY 15
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077LCNP4R 17
jesus fucking christ who reads this shit

>>16356654
Okay

>>16356684
Why respond at all if you clearly don't want to have a discussion?

>>16354730
The fact that Palmer Eldritch is my waifu

Any good high fantasy recommendations? I want something fun but with some depth, like Wizard Knight or Lord of Light.

>>16356218
I've tried plenty and the only good one I've found is The Rook. It's sort of a British X-Men/MI6 low comedy mashup. Really enjoyed it.
Trigger warning Female MC

>theres unironically django wexler fanboys in these very threads

>>16356756
Lyonesse Trilogy
Three Hearts and Three Lions

>>16356218
Vurt by Jeff Noon
Last Call by Tim Powers
Zod Wallop by William Browning Spencer

>>16353709
>Commie wants everything for free

>>16357047
God, I love free things.

>>16353714
>>16353737
Jinx by Sage Blackwood

>>16356218
Bad Dreams and Broken Hearts

>>16357047
That's not it, he's just retarded. We all pirate books, this guy is just annoyed he has an option to pay per chapter rather than per book.

i need some sci-fi to read. i dont know the term, but something more like the expanse, where things seem a lot more like how it might work in space, as opposed to say star trek or star wars. preferably with no aliens either.

is there anything to scratch my itch?

>>16357281
hard sci-fi

>>16357281
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
A Hymn Before Battle
Anything Written by Asimov

>>16357293
thanks friend
>>16357297
ill give these a gander, thanks

>>16357281
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BHYL64V?searchxofy=true&ref_=dbs_s_aps_series_rwt

>>16357281
It's an anime, but you may like Planetes

It's a hard sci-fi near-future drama about the people at an agency that retrieve debris from Earth's orbit

>>16357309
i was looking more for spaceship stuff at first, but these seem like a good read
>>16357369
i dont mind anime, its only when they do the stupid crying literal waterfalls, or bloody nose when they get an erection, is when i cant stand it. ill look it up on youtube and see what its like

>>16357398
>or bloody nose when they get an erection
Japs actually do that tho. They hyperventilate and burst a vessel.

>>16357412
Don't bother, the guy is clearly too immature to handle media not produced by his own culture.

>only litrpg book you've read is described as "anti-litrpg"
Based. I liked it too for the most part. Should probably read the other two books in the series since I've been in the mood for dungeons/maze shit lately.

>>16357519

>>16357519
this is clearly what i want to watch when im looking for hard scifi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaU7Cm-CFfU&ab_channel=OtakuSama

>>16357532
>litrpg
Maybe this is a sign that I'm just getting too old for fantasy but this is the most retarded trend to me. Adding videogame elements to a fantasy story doesn't seem to change much at all aside from meta-context if the story actually acknowledges the game, and not all of them even do that. What's the appeal? Are the youth so entrenched in videogames as a pastime that every piece of media they consume outside of it must also emulate videogames? At least fantasy novels that emulate tabletop work because there's lots of material within those games that can translate over to a solid novel and most of those smartly eschew including actual game mechanics into the material.

>>16357631
>At least fantasy novels that emulate tabletop work because there's lots of material within those games that can translate over to a solid novel and most of those smartly eschew including actual game mechanics into the material.
As I said; this is the only litrpg book I've read and it's described as the ANTI-litrpg book and it has exactly what you've detailed. Which is probably why I enjoyed it for the most part. There's no way in hell I could enjoy the average litrpg that's brought up in here. Just sounds awful.

>>16355836
It is on z-library, in epub format. I downloaded it and read it.

>>16357654
I've cracked open a few out of morbid curiosity and they're just vapid as fuck. Oh wow, it's a story about magic and sword fights and elves but, get this, there's an inventory system you can look at in a splash page! Nothing sucks me out of a story faster than having a character mentioning videogame mechanics in idle conversation. Genre fiction may be the cultural flotsam of literature, but somehow litrpgs feel even worse. I dunno why I'm bitching so much about it, I guess I'm just baffled that they're so popular.

>>16357631
Litrpg seems like the logical endpoint of the wookiepedia-ing of fiction. No plot, no characters, no themes, just systems for autistic manchildren to obsess over.

>>16357863
Only a half-step beyond Sanderson's overexplained dreck.

>>16353737
Longsword chronicles by GJ Kelly

write some new sf/fantasy ITT over here. C'mon guise I put a lot of work into this project. The least you could do is gib bumperu

>>16356481
>>16356481
>>16356481
>>16356481

>>16357519
t. actual retard

>>16357412
I didn't know Japs were retarded.

Joe Abercrombies book comes out tomorrow, I assume we've all preordered so we can read it and then complain about it and call it generic woke dreck.

>>16358047
Fuck off with your spam faggot

>>16358670
>preordered
No, I'll pirate it.

>read it
Yes.

>complain
No.

>generic woke dreck
Good joke.

>>16355836
I'd recommend picking up the Gollancz collection if only for the beautiful hardcover binding.

Any good HFYs where humans are ancient gods or god-like or insanely advanced? Really in the mood for some of those, l*ddit is fine too as long as it's good

>>16358875
looks nice, does it have sewn binding?

>>16358875
>>16359066
It's cheap plastic shit, I don't understand how people find this appealing

>>16357538
People loved the Japanese prints so much when Japan opened trade that it went on to influence the impressionist art movements.

>>16353765
I finished the litRPG thing. The ending went about as expected and the epilogue was unneeded, imo, presenting a torture scene as well as 'oOoOoOoO ancient empire is rising again'
The MC (pic related lel there are cards for MC and the two main female characters--a succubus and a humanoid bug queen who are also in his harem) is like a god and was imprisoned for X time for reasons unknown so I'm hoping it goes in a decent direction, especially considering the mystique of the overall litRPG system which luckily isn't too intrusive.
There are lots of repeated mannerisms (like MC grinning) ala Sanderson repetition that is hopefully improved upon in book 2. The sexual content is very alluded to and there is much flirtation along with some introductory foreplay but there is never a full-blown detailed hardcore sex scene, of all things, despite the violent graphicness of the book and all the sexual desire/wanting displayed. Which is okay with me though.
I think I've lost my train here so i maek poast

>>16359153
Here is the succubus side-character, and...

>>16359162
This is the bug queen. Any name other than something starting with A would have been better, imo.

>>16358875
I have a dumb ass question
Does the completw chronicles come woth EVERY conan story? I'm a bkt of an autist when it comes to these complete books

>>16359638
Yes, it has every Conan story written by Robert E. Howard and they're arranged in the order of publication.
It does NOT have Conan stories written by other authors though, yes there are quite a few of them but few are worth reading so you're not missing out on much.

How likely would it be that I get found out if I write a lesbian porn story and try to disguise it as wokeshit?

>>16359692
Oh cool, thanks then i gurss i'm getting it if it has everything from the author

>>16359705
How good are you?

>>16360005
I write 10000 word posts when role playing on f-list.

>>16357631
There are good litrpg. The ones with menus, attack movesets, stats, etc are the worst.
It's usually a fresh take when they make a fantastical world without the obvious video game elements. That usually happens when it's built into the world and not some "playing a virtual game" shit.

>>16357654
Sounds like Daniel Schinophen table top shit. That book was utter shit.

>litrpg
Is there a reason we're not just calling it isekai

>>16356218
Dresden files

>>16360168
Cause that would be stupid. By that logic things like the Narnia books would be considered litprgs.

THIS TRACK IS FUCKING FIRE!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6-WqmmX7Og

>>16360405
yeah I'm not clicking that

>>16360405
What the fuck

I just picked up pic related at a flea market. How necessary is the first book to understanding what's going on?

>>16360405

>>16360677
The first book introduces the world and main characters and ends on a cliffhanger which is directly continued in Gods of Mars.

>>16361187
Well shit, now I have to buy a copy of princess of Mars with a cool frazzetta cover
thanks

>>16357398
Planetes is quite good and doesn't follow the tropes that you (sensibly) shy away from. It's from the era of anime that still produced works for a mature perspective.
As for interplanetary fiction, Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy is good if terraforming would be of interest. I'm drawing a blank at the moment if what you want is strictly asteroid mining and planetoid outposts.

Not to gang up on Conanons but I did start the collection a couple of years ago and had to give up during the first story. The descriptions of Conan and his motions were obsessive and offputting. REH was either homosexual or was writing an idealized /fit/ inflation of himself.

>>16361355
>REH was either homosexual or was writing an idealized /fit/ inflation of himself.
Why do you trannies always try to use this argument? This is some peak projection.

>>16361465
>Conan's steel-trap quickness of eye and muscle had kept him untouched, though the sticky loops had passed him so close they rasped his naked hide. . .
>Sooner or later a gummy loop would writhe about him, python-like, and then, wrapped like a cocoon, he would lie at the monster's mercy.
Dunno man, I guess trussing up yoked naked men to lie helpless at the whim of his--I mean a--throbbing snake isn't gay imagery after all. My mistake.

>>16361355
>The descriptions of Conan and his motions were obsessive and offputting. REH was either homosexual or was writing an idealized /fit/ inflation of himself.
You're projecting, closet-kun.

>>16361836
You're the one for whom it's extremely important for nothing you're involved with to seem the slightest bit gay.

>>16353841
>someone is asking about Vance!
>okokok
>slow breaths
Yes, I have.
It's his finest work, in my opinion, although Lyonesse or Emphyrio seem to be the more common assessment among his fans.
Have you read anything by Vance yet?

>>16355912
Fuck, I didn't know that. I'm stuck with pic related for the time being. Will get those three in the future.

>>16355203
>>16355343
I imagine most don't answer because for some reason most here don't read sci fi. I'm not sure why.
Any way ou can read in order of release or you can read in order of timeline
Timeline is (roughly)
I, robot/robot visions/ robot dreams/ other robot stories
Mother earth (short story)
Caves of Steel
The naked sun
Robots of dawn
Robots and empire
Stars like dust (empire book)
Currents of space (empire book)
Pebble in the sky (empire book)
Prelude to foundation
Forward the foundation
Foundation
Foundation and empire
Second foundation
Foundations edge
Foundation and earth
You can add end of eternity (short story) in there too somewhere because it's mentioned in the foundation books but it's sorta a this is how this universe came to be thing
You can also read it any order you wish
I read the robot books first (caves of steel -> robots and empire) then I read I robot and the other robot short stories, then I skipped ahead to foundation and have been reading them. Asimov gives you back ground on what's happened before in each book and originally robot and foundation were separate so yeah it's ok to read foundation before the robots or vice versa. I haven't touched empire books yet and really haven't found that I needed to
Pick which part of the series interests you more then go from there.

>>16356320
>Both are apparently arranged in publication order.
Incorrect.
Del Rey is in order written. Big collection (I think) is publication order. If frost giants daughter comes at end of collection it is publication order cause it's the second story Howard wrote but it was rejected until after he died

>>16362005
>>>/lgbt/

Anyone familiar with this series? Is it as trashy as it sounds?

>Conan has taken over /sffg/
It was inevitable. Other fantasy is gay

>>16362340
All fantasy is gay. At least Conan is open about it.

>>16362520
False. All art is fundamentally masculine.

>>16362532
>fantasy
>art
Pick one.

>>16355912
Lmaooo I love you bro, I always see you telling people here about the CHAD del ray edition. Keep up the good work >>16355994

Has anyone read these books? I saw this one for 50p and picked it up because I recognised the art from that movie Wizards, but they only had book three. How much is that going to matter?

Is the Conan series public domain yet or is copyright law that well and truly fucked? Can I write a Conan story?

>>16362550
I pick art and by pick art, I'm picking fantasy.

>>16362581
I think some of the stories are public domain but the character it's self isn't. There was controversy over a fan made adaptation of shadows of the moon because they didn't own the rights to the character someone else does. You can look into that and maybe answer your question. I know there's a video on YouTube at least about the killed adaptation

has anyone ever written any fantasy based on the heroes of might and magic universe? i'd enjoy reading a based crag hack type character redpilling a kid in a coming of age type of thing, for example

Any sci-fi literature based on space exploration and weird creatures that might inhabit it?

>>16362190
read the foundation books in publication order. don't be an idiot and start with prequels. (not sure if the poster was suggesting that).

>>16363291
Nah just giving chronological timeline. I've heard the prequel books suck. Thus I skipped to foundation.

I just got the following Kane books - can I just read these in publication order?

Novels:
>Bloodstone (1975)
>Dark Crusade (1976)
>Darkness Weaves (1978)

Short stories:
>Death Angel's Shadow (1973)
>Night Winds (1978)

>>16363368
Publication order is always the only acceptable order. Why would anyone ever do otherwise?

>>16362520
LEAVE
THAT
CLOSET

>>16363368
You can read them in any order you want. I suggest you start with Night Winds since it has the best Kane stories. Then Darkness Weaves since it's the best full length novel. Then Death Angel's Shadow. Then Bloodstone. Then Dark Crusade.

Currently reading game of thrones and warhammer horus heresy

@me

>>16361355
>or was writing an idealized /fit/ inflation of himself.
Well, duh. He was a stay-at-home incel who did nothing but write and nurse his sickly mother. He killed himself immediately after her passing.

>>16363542
I stopped in storm of swords cause I didn't care anymore
How far will you go before you give up on game of thrones books

Recommend me some Fantasy that's the opposite of Grimdark.

>>16363494
so "Reflections for the Winter of My Soul" which is in Death Angel's Shadow (1973) is supposedly the sequel to the Dark Crusade novel (1976), what's up with that? I guess he wrote Dark Crusade before he wrote Reflections.

The goal is to read chronologically within the universe.

>>16363551
Yeah, I read his Wikipedia summary too. I seem to recall something in there about his participation in boxing so your biographical sketch might be a little lacking.

>>16363641
probably some le Guin

>>16363712
I don't think so.

>>16363641
Noblebright is the opposite of Grimdark.

>reading in chronological rather than release order
I sure hope you guys don't do this

>>16363641
Lyonesse Trilogy

>>16363882
> not reading the thread from bottom to top

>>16363897
You're just recommending Vance universally.

>>16363882
>he doesn't want the story in order
Fag

>>16364028
The story in order is publication order.
What makes you want to read the prequel? Because you liked book one. You think if you read book one and didn't like it you would be interested in the prequel?

>>16364028
There is no "the story" with Kane. Every story is self-contained.

>>16363641
David Eddings

>TQ
How the fuck has no one mentioned Pic related?

>>16363240
Blindsight, kind of

>>16363988
Plenty of Vance is grim in content, if not tone.

Regards to something that's going to happen to Tyrion in Winds that Martin mentioned recently do you think it could be something connected to Aegon? Martin mentioned a mistake Tyrion makes puts him in a bad position. MAYBE Aegon's invasion doesn't happen as people planned and is a failure, people find out Tyrion convinced Aegon to go to Westeros and want to put him in trial. Daenerys screws over Tyrion and hands him back to Westeros where he has to undergo a trial by combat. Thoughts?

>>16364332
>Believing that fat ass will ever release Winds of Winter

>>16363641
Discworld

>>16364456
More like DICKSworld.

>>16354605

>>16364308
>wanted opposite of Grimdark

>>16364545
Was it autism?

>>16356218
Iron Druid Chronicles

Wake me up inside when Piranesi and the Trouble with Peace are uploaded.

>>16364621
Wake Me Up When September Ends

>>16364629
W-wake me up when 2020 ends

>>16363240
>Any sci-fi literature based on space exploration and weird creatures that might inhabit it?
I am (re-)reading image related book series right now and its authored by army veteran with marine biology degree, its very action oriented military science-fiction, it has many of different kinds of aliens and the main bad guys biologically gestate their armored combat units

>>16358670
Fuck no. After finishing the First Law trilogy, I vowed to never again to read that gum-sucking glacier-paced dreck lest I Hulk-out like the Bloody-nine

Im 50+ pages into A once and future king and it's quite boring

I think as I get older I have less and less tolerance for coming of age stories

Full-length novels under 300 pages are the best.
Don't @ me, retards.

>>16364684
opposite. Coming of age is comfy and makes me remember when my life was simple

>>16364732
but I am bitter that things will never be like that again

>>16364594
>>16363641
It's a decent recommendation. Tamurello, Carfiliot and Melancthe have grim character arcs but the good guys win and the bad guys get what's comin' to 'em.
If anon is >13, I'd consider it safe enough.

>>16364765
Misunderstanding.

>>16364882

>>16364765
Why do you feel the need to defend Vance?

>>16364999
In this context, it's a pleasant affectation for me. I greatly enjoy Vance's work; almost to an obsession at times, I suspect. I happen to have read widely within his oeuvre and his background so I'm always hopeful of finding someone else who is as stimulated by his work as I am. There's a boomer message board with some august personages of far greater erudition than my own but I prefer the rowdy confines of 4chan.

Why, what's your opinion of him?

>catfag

yeah his opinions and therefore all his written works are meaningless

When people praise the writing of tv and film, I often see responses like "try reading a book"; but in my experience, the plots of books tend to be considerably weaker on average, even if less formulaic. I have my suspicions of why this may be, but without getting into too much of an argument over my opinion, I ask you to name me some books you consider worthy of the book > film debate, specifically concerning tight narrative. I'm not looking for character studies, (which I agree the better bulk are found in literature), I am asking for books with tight, expertly written plotlines that put multimillion dollar productions to shame. Crossing my fingers you can change my stance.

>>16365171

>>16364765
>>16364928
Where has your donkey ass boy been these past couple months?
In the hospital with corona? Lock out your own boarder?

>>16365183
You want books that would make a great film, or great films that were books?

sci fi that depicts the human race operating at an enormous scale of population?

>>16365183
What do you mean by tight?
In the context of movies, I would think tight means the action is always progressing and scenes are moving so the audience doesn't get bored or overwhelmed (casting a wide IQ net). If this is similar to what you mean, then any Crichton novel would seem to be an answer and indeed many are movies.

Regardless, as a quick relevant counterexample I would say LotR dunks on your theory that a script is better than a plot.

>>16353841
>>16362010
I've read like 4 Dying Earth stories.
And then I saw the entire framework DND is bolted on top of, and it finally made sense.
Its pretty good, but it do make DND into a very dishonest series.

The Vance and D&D relation is greatly overestimated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_and_influences_on_the_development_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons

>>16365466
>>16365450
Lmao
What shinczo bullshit is this? That is a article stating where named elements are named from, not where the entire murderhobo post civilization comes into the picture.
And where Wizards rule the lands, with cults everywhere.

https://forum.mobilism.org/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=3853154&hilit=The+Trouble+with+Peace
It's out

>>16365533
>had only been uploaded for literally less than a minute when this post was made

>>16365510
You don't know what you're talking about.

>>16365555
I spent all day refreshing that fucking thing because I was too lazy to set up my refresher in time.

>>16365564
Thank you for your vigilance.

>>16365450
I'm pretty sure that Vance influenced freaking everything, even the Block Transfer Mathematics in Doctor Who seems to be inspired by the shit in Dying Earth.

>>16365577
Everyone likes to think their preferred works influenced everything.

>>16365602
I think that lots of things are inspired by other things -- it's fun to try and figure out what's inspired by what.

>>16365560
>Write one line
>Say something
>Don't argue or cite your sources
Lmao
Fucking 4chan 2020

>>16365614
If A was inspired by B and C was inspired by B, was C inspired by A?

>>16365623
When has it ever been different?
Why argue "not even wrong"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

>>16365320
Are you ESL? I ask because if so, I wouldn't be confident of my advice on Cadwal. I see Vance as an elite English stylist in fiction, almost ridiculously out of place in these genres. I am aware that Vance has a significant fanbase in Europe--I believe the Dutch especially--but I am frankly not sure why that is so when his strength is mostly in his nuanced use of his native tongue whereas his plots are rather commonplace.

No matter; Araminta Station, the first book, is the meat of the series so you'd know right away what you think of it (it's a bildungsroman).

>>16365645
>Are you ESL?
The fuck is a ESL?
Why are you writing non sequitur grammar?

>>16365628
That's always an interesting puzzle

>>16365257
definitely not the second as that's easy enough to find. Even more so I'm looking for books that are beyond making a great film. The supposedly unfilmable, without that simply being because it's entirely reliant on prose. It has to have a tight plot, not just purple day in the life poetics.
>>16365313
>What do you mean by tight?
it doesn't have to be ADHD tier. Slow pacing can still be good. By tight I just mean that it's structurally sound. But because the point is to not only compete with film, but best it, I'm looking for the narratives that truly standout. If it's on par with the plot of some 2 hour action movie, the action movie wins in my eyes because it's less of a time investment.
>I would say LotR dunks on your theory that a script is better than a plot.
Can you point out where I said a script is better than a plot? In the context of this conversation they're essentially the same. Did you mean that LotR is an example where the book bests the movies? Or maybe that LotR is an example where the plot is superseded by the journey/sum of its parts?

>>16365669
I think it mostly matters in how far back you want to trace influences. Does only the immediate influence matter or does it trace back centuries if not millennia? If a person never interacts with a work personally how much can they still be influenced by it?

>>16365679
Different anon here.
The problem is that you've created a situation where it's impossible to "prove" what you want because it's so (intentionally?) ambiguous and ill-defined, as to be idiosyncratic. Asking someone to show you how your feelings are wrong and change your mind is silly at best.

>>16365533
Discussion will start tomorrow or some such. Participate or not.

>>16365657
>Why are you writing non sequitur grammar?
Why are you making up expressions?>>16365679
>If it's on par with the plot of some 2 hour action movie, the action movie wins in my eyes because it's less of a time investment.
That's it. I've finally filled my daily quota of shit retards say on the internet, and oh surprise! It's from a plotfag.

>>16365807
You have only yourself to blame.

>>16365709
I'm keeping it vague to encourage any title one thinks lives up to the belief that books contain greater stories on average. I don't think it's right to even pigeonhole a topic as encompassing as this, and if I start dropping examples of movies and shows I like, that's just opening the door for dismissive replies that shit on my tastes, which aren't all that relevant to begin with, since if literature dominates movies, my favorites can't help but be less enthralling than the book recommendations I hope to receive; and I am genuinely hoping here, not trying to play internet debater. Admittedly, I'm not a big fan of books, but I'm trying to enjoy them for the sake of improving my writing. To me, a movie's soundtrack, acting, cinematography, etc., is the equivalent of a novel's prose, so when these are factored out, the thing left to compare is story itself (the connection of plot beats, the way characters interact to fuel them, the way the setting influences both, etc). That's what I'm looking for: the real meat that makes a book better than its competition. It should be assumed that if said book were able to be made into a faithful film, it too would have a great story, but I'm not trying to shut the door on books that wouldn't work as movies, which is why I don't specifically ask for that.

>>16365807
>4chan
>A person thinks a anon is another anon
Every fucking time

>>16365826


>improving my writing
Your screenwriting? Technical writing? 4chan posting writing?

>>I'm not a big fan of books
Why are you trying to improve your writing then?

>>16365827
What?

>>16365679
I wasn't trying to pick a fight or set you up. I was curious as to your position.
>. . . in my experience, the plots of books tend to be considerably weaker on average . . .
I took the implication of your opinion to be that movies then have the stronger plots. The set of movies that are also books would seem to be the ideal starting point for an argument from that perspective. So without having to wait for your clarification, I gave an example of my opinion that fit no matter how you defined tight.

Yes, I think the LotR books best the movies. You couched your opinion with the exception
>even if less formulaic
but those formulas are precisely what waters down the plot. That's not to say that the plot couldn't be effectively streamlined; just that the changes in convention damage the plot more than it gains in efficiency.
Crossing to your side of the table, Lawrence of Arabia is far better as a movie than Seven Pillars of Wisdom is a book. However, Spartacus has the formula for love interest shoehorned in which made the first half more tedious than a historical narrative would have been.

>>16365827
>not telling someone else that you are different anon
>>16365818

>>16365843

>>16365827 is saying that when you replied to their post >>16365657 you thought they were >>16365320

piranesi is also out https://forum.mobilism.org/search.php?keywords=piranesi&sr=topics&sf=titleonly

>>16365807
I'll own being a plotfag if it nets me recommendations with noteworthy plots. I'm not trying to shit on character/prose focused works, (my favorite writer would be among them), I'm just looking for something that does excel at plot as that's the sort of fiction I'd rather read and write. I also fail to see how I'm retarded for valuing my time. If a book far exceeds a film's worth, of course its length is justified, but I view time as a weight, and the longer a work is, the more expectation is built.
>>16365841
not rich so literature is the best way I can see getting my story out there. In a nonsensical world where all my dreams come true, I'd rather direct it, but I'm doing what I can within a different medium while breaking some rules to stay true to my vision. Reading is something I do to better my shit prose, but I'd ideally like to learn story from it as well. So far I haven't found the plots particularly insightful or inspiring.
>>16365844
yeah and again I'm not really looking for books that have been made into films because it's generally the case that if the story is good in the film it's better in the book, but the time investment thing equals it out to me. Exceptions are godawful adaptations and the occasional film that improves the novel's narrative.
I'm looking for books that haven't graced Hollywood. That doesn't mean they'd necessarily make good films, I just want the gems with solid, interesting plots worthy of investors and hundreds of people committing their time to bringing it to life. Books that should be remembered for their story, not just their prose. The plotfag slander you often see supports my perspective that the story itself is not typically a focus of books. A book can have a humdrum plot, but if it's written well, it will be read. Even if many film plots are similarly lackluster, they tend to at least deliver a formulaic three act structure because there is more money riding on it. I hope I don't need to say this, but I likely do: many films are of course shit. Any medium has its shit, and its gold, I'm just speaking generally.

>>16365933
>chick author
lol

Reading Narnia for the first time since my teens. Forgot how much I love it. I actually broke down crying last night reading it. Thinking of how it inspired me as a child, how it encouraged me as a teen, and how it touched my heart. This idea of a world bigger than ourselves. It made me ache for simpler times and the happiness I once had, and its making me realize I need only to chose that again. Really glad I'm doing so.

This song from the second film never ceases to stir up the same feelings. I dont think I've seen them since the theater, honestly. Loved them byt just never rewatched. This song, though. Wow.

https://youtu.be/pCEUpVukAe8
>I'll come back when you call me... no need to say goodbye.

>>16365856
I was only addressing >>16365657 's made up description of improper grammar as "non sequitur".

I couldn't care less about the plotfag (>>16365826) and his confirmed bias for films, more so when he willingly ignores characterization and dialogue from his analysis, chucking it all under the 'story' label.
To prove him wrong, you could simply pick any novel versus its film adaptation. For some reason he ignores the fact that such adaptations (9 times out of 10, inferior to the source material) are films as well, and they suffer the same limitations as any other film. Prose hardly equates to depth, and even with the best cinematography, score and actors, it's going to lack the depth of a good book.
How many times has C&P been adapted? Even the best adaptation of War & Peace with its great soundtrack and scale, falls short to the original.
But when it comes to capeshit and genre fiction, well, he did right to come here. Because genre fiction is mostly about the plot, and when the plot is mediocre or trite, the characters and the dialogue are bad (see Stephen King) any 2 dime director could potentially do better.

>>16365941
Better than 99% of male authors and 99% of the shitty POC choices

>>16365949
The shittiest male author is better than the best chick author. That is a fact.

>>16365958
Okay Nigger

>>16365960
Whoa we don't talk like that here.

16365984
We don't "talk" at all, kys

>>16365947
>he willingly ignores characterization and dialogue from his analysis, chucking it all under the 'story' label.
I'm not meaning to ignore them, (I actually disagree that I am), I think the best plots are heavily influenced by their characters, and dialogue tends to be my favorite spice. Just because I don't consider characterization and dialogue to be the meat of a plot doesn't mean I don't think it's important. Books where the plot isn't a big focus are remembered largely because of their characters, I tried to make my understanding of this clear when I said character studies make great books.
>For some reason he ignores the fact that such adaptations (9 times out of 10, inferior to the source material) are films as well, and they suffer the same limitations as any other film
I haven't ignored this, though perhaps it took a bit for it to be addressed. My stance in this case is that a film is shorter, so the book has more time investment going against it. When weighed, its contents would have to absolutely crush the adaptation for me to not consider them comparable, even though I agree the book is almost universally better. Are you compelled to purchase the most expensive brand when a cheaper one brings you a similar degree of pleasure? You don't trick yourself into thinking the expensive brand is shit, it's just not necessarily worth indulging.

>>16366009
>16365984

>>16365947
I'm having trouble trying to separate the plot from the characterization and dialogue for the sake of his argument. It seems to me that he's asking if there are any good long books that can't be chopped down to two hours and still convey the plot, which I admit I think may be true but the excisions now mean the book is shorter but not better so other than saying, yes, you can script any novel, what is the point of the argument.
Why would I watch Anna Karenina with three or four characters in two hours when I could read the progression of Tolstoy's full cast of characters. They are simply two heterogeneous entertainments that cannot be reduced to a common denominator.

>>>>>>>>16366075

>>16366092
> It seems to me that he's asking if there are any good long books that can't be chopped down to two hours and still convey the plot
This isn't necessarily what I'm asking for. I'm looking for any books you think have a great plot. That's really it. I've elaborated because of the back and forth, but the length doesn't really matter, as long as the plot justifies it. I'd love a long series that is worth its weight, I actually prefer good tv to films because I like evolving stories and following a cast for awhile. If it happens to have lots of character focused scenes (that don't feel like filler), I would actually love that. I'm not the soi slurping marvelfag I suspect I'm being taken for. My dissatisfaction extends to genre fiction.
Not trying to single you out with my reply btw, as some of it is regarding the discussion thus far as a whole

>>16366049
If this is the sort of people getting to write movie scripts, semi autists botching a dissection of mediums, thinking a clean cut is possible, "here's argument, there's character, and dialogue, and prose", along with shitty concepts such "weight", or "time investment", well, Hollywood is truly doomed and better left to graphic designers and economists.
Take The Count of Montecristo, arguably one of the best adventure novels of all times. What makes it great? Is it it just the prose of Victor Hugo, paid by the word to fill enough pages for every installment of his serial?
Is it the characterization of Edmond or the Count (which is practically opaque in his second half)? The young boy? The almost non existant profile of his enemies? Is it the dialogue? Probably, just as much as the action, and the basic plot: being wronged, seeking revenge, winning.
Stars my Destionation tells a similar story in 1/5 the page count, and still any film adaptation would be utter crap, probably.

So here's another problem. Not only are most novels better than their adaptations, but any novel with an epic scope, one that required a bigger "time investment", will most likely be better than a 2 hour film, even if you cut out every single description of the environment and the characters, and their clothes, and simplified their movements and removed any extraneous thought on the narrator (see Dostoevsky's philosophizing).

Apparently "time", you know, the thing writers have in mind in relation to plot and the extension of their work, is pretty important. Who would have thought that an arbitrary time restriction made for potentially shittier things.

>>16366150
No offense taken or meant; I'm interested in observing a point of view that I don't intuit.

I'm hamstrung by removal of characterization and dialogue from plot because in my head, if I remove the need for this character to go here for this experience or to speak with this person, then any plot can be reduced to Protagonist goes from Point A to Point B with as many vignettes between as suits the time constraint. I don't see how you lay out a plot on paper that is so compelling sans character development or personality that each event must be filmed.

>>16366168
I think a clean cut is possible, but you are quickly limited to 1 hour per 70-100 pages of book.
But the bigger issues are, even simpler problems, like:
-Lack of ambition
-Lack of planning out SFX
-Scriptdoctor removes all the dialogue and replaces it with stock Hollywood communication
-Studio meddling removes elements
-Complete lack of understanding of what elements makes the story work, so the wrong legs is cut for the script to fit
-Lack of budget/talent

Most movies are basically a 200 page cutout of the books, with a lot of complete script rewrites.
It can work, but generally if the book is longer than 200 pages there will be cut content, and generally most books are 400-500 pages, so there is 200-300 pages of cut content.
How much of those pages are filler varies, but its still a lot of pages lacking.

>>16366269
Perhaps the hang up is in the word plot, which I previously said I do associate with character growth moments and all the nuance between. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you still seem to think I'm looking for something I'm not. If the plot can be outlined so simply without mentioning character motivations, that's probably not a plot I consider noteworthy. Likewise if the plot is virtually nonexistent and really is a series of vignettes, that would also lead to a bland list (not noteworthy) when outlined. It may be a great book, but probably not a great example of interesting plot (in the typical sense of the word).
>>16366168
I assure you that even if I possessed the talent, connections, funds, and luck, I am not the type Hollywood is looking for. I'm fairly anti-Hollywood, actually. I'd fight for the slower character scenes and likely be deemed an annoying auteur meddling in every department until my vision is met.
I think you're misunderstanding me because you're focusing far too much on my film preference to see what I'm even asking for. I'm not some screenwriter looking to turn a book into a movie, I just want examples of books with stories that blow even the best movies and tv out of the water. Usually the only answers produced are the more literary works which tend to be philosophical and prose driven. Again, my favorite author falls under this category, so I know there is amazing worth to books concerning the craft, I just haven't been wowed by any of their stories. I'm hoping that's just because i haven't read enough, so as such, I appreciate the reminder of Montecristo. If you have more recommendations I'd love to hear them, as that's far more useful to me than a back and forth brought about by miscommunication and assumptions.

For the record, I have just as many complaints about the state of my preferred entertainment medium.

Honestly have no clue about SF, but I'm making a game set in a glass domed colony on Mars and I want some good autistically scientific SF to get me in the mood.
What are some good ones? Preferably some lighter or at least shorter reading because I just finished Moby Dick and I don't want to start another big project just yet.

>>16366572
Martian Chronicles

>>16361355
I'm this guy:
>>16366572
I considered reading the Mars trilogy but it seems more focused on general terraforming and also a supposedly shitty love triangle?
Mostly though I bounced off because I don't want to start such a huge project. Please convince me otherwise though, if it's actually really good I'll give it a shot.

Holy shit, literally the first chapter in The Trouble with Peace and Abercrombie has dropped the most generic caricature criticisms of capitalism you could imagine. A high schooler could have written this.

>>16366578
Oh yeah, I saw that one come up while looking online. Seemed interesting, but kind of spiritual/horrory? I'll give it a shot but I also want some more hard sci fi.
Thanks for the recommendation.

>>16366595
Kinda is horror-y.

>>16366593
I wished I could read along with you faggots but I never got to the previous book and I'm not crazy about the idea of waiting 1-2 years for the sequel.

The only release I'm waiting for is Babel #4 and that's next year.

>>16366593
This is why I'm reading Piranesi first.

>>16366593
imagine not being able to realize he is intentionally painting it that way. perhaps you should go back to your YA lit

>>16366572
I wasn't the biggest fan of Andy Weir's The Martian but it was fine and seems to have a lot of research behind it.

>>16366585
Not him but in Red Mars once they get their colony set up there's a lot of scientific philosophy/politics among themselves and with Earth. Yeah the shitty love triangle is meh. But again it has a lot of science behind it. If you read Red Mars alone you'll get a lot of Martian natural history and science circa 1992. Another option is his short story collection "The Martians".

>>16366962
Okay, I suppose I'll try Red Mars and see how far I get, anyway. Reading amazon reviews there are a bunch of people that thought the science stuff was boring and stupid, so it does sound like exactly what I need. If I can get through chapters about whaling boats I can certainly get through chapters on terraforming.

>>16364028
People who read the first book when it came out didn't have a choice about the order to read it in, it was simply the only book available. Then the next one came out and it was once again the only book by the author they hadn't read yet. And so on. This idea that release order isn't good enough is a retarded fabrication of people who only picked up a series after it was completed. The publication order is generally always the order in which was written by the author, there's no objective way you can claim it is an inferior experience when it is the experience most closely aligned with the way the author created the story. All "reading order" autism is the product of fans who think they know the story better than the person who wrote it.

Been reading the Earthsea books. Finished Tehanu and I'm pretty disappointed. I knew what to expect (it's Le Guin after all).
The first three were almost perfect in every way and the best thing they had is quite ruined. I don't mind the female PoV or the old people or any of that. But did it have to be this feminist? Because it reads like an old woman bickering, making no sense of herself and the little sense it makes of the world, is almost entirely explained as gender issues.
Jesus Christ, Ursula. She writes in the afterword how in the first three books, she subverted the genre tropes with her cast of brown wizards and how some critics and readers didn't like her doing the same about gender. Yeah, sure. Nobody seemed to mind the appeareance. It was nicely done, original, sure. The key here, though, is it was subtle. When Ged meets men of a darker skin color, the narrator doesn't have him reflecting too long on it. It never draws ideas like "he's a darky, so he's untrustworthy," there are no racist characters. Dragons don't care. In the third book, the white girl doesn't care that much about Ged's skin even though it's the first 'black' she sees.
Then in book 4, almost everything is about gender and there are a billion books like it.

And now book 5 looks like 100% retconning all this shit. Roke was founded by women, DIDN'T YOU KNOW? What the hell.
I might read based Ogion's story and the one about Tehanu and skip the rest for the final volume.

Any of you reading aliens vs vampires 2: space boogaloo

>>16367585
i already read blindsight

How is the books of babel series? Do you rec them?

>>16367212
The same thing happened to me two days ago, you can find my post in one of the archived threads for my thoughts. I decided not to continue with book 5 and just let Earthsea live as a trilogy in my head

>>16367585
I have never forgiven this thread for recommending the first one.

>>16366465
If you want PLOT then I highly recommend

The Gunslinger
Lyonesse, particularly the second book
The Stars My Destination
Guards, Guards! and Men at Arms
The Quiet Earth

The last one is a tentative recommendation as parts of it might be somewhat obscure to non kiwis, but once the plot finally kicks in it's like stepping into a nightmare

Are there any Germans here? Whats some quality fantasy or SciFi from German authors?
Pic of course unrelated

>>16367647
It's nice. I do recommend them. And the audiobook narrator is pretty good too.
>>16367774
Not German but the only book I've read (on tape) in German is Er ist vieder da. I guess the premise might qualify as sff, if you squint enough.

SFFG Discord:
http://discord.gg/KWPCM7m

we're starting The Trouble with Peace today

>>16365533
available here

>>16367737
Antipodean here, care to say anything more about The Quiet Earth? I like horror but I don't read much in contemporary settings.

>>16367669
>>16367212
My problem with Tehanu is that its a interest book, but by threading into Feminism as a ideology it starts using the characters as mouthpieces. And the ideology that is presented is is verk stark contrast compared to what is presented in universe.
In Universe the Wizards of Rook has organized themselves, so they output the pinnacle of Wizardry. Ged was a nobody who was taught little until he got there.
Meanwhile Sorcerers and Witches where shit tier people who barely shared their lore, and some of them are even doomed to burn themselves out or kill themselves due lack of knowledge.

But that isn't even the real problem with Tehanu.
The real problem is that the book ends with them walking like idiots into the pawns of Aspen, and then the book has no way to salvage it. And goes "oh wait, lets just fucking summon Kalessin, the kid could do it all along", and as such it tosses its plot into the garbage chute.
The idea is sound: Worn out legends has to duke it out with a bunch of nobodies in the far wastes of the world, over little value. Games, movies and books has done that before.
But instead of a old women and some due ourperforming a fledging sorcerer, "lmao lets just have fucking Tehanu solve it Deus Ex Machina"

>>16367647
Decent series, has a lot of promise but never gets quite as good as you expect and the writer has a boner for needless subversion and cliffhangers.

>>16367866
>discord
That’s an unironic yikes from me.

>>16368604
>shitting on discord while using "yikes"

>>16368642
shut up tranny

>>16368642
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0aoxgtoQZw

>>16368658
fuck off transphobe

>>16368720
>>16368658
75% of every community is made up of retards, just look at this site. Doesnt make the use of "yikes" any more acceptable. Just keep shitting on discord while using your cool twitter words.

>>16368759
No one fears you, sir.

>>16368797
you do, boy

>>16368759
>transphobe
Implying I'm scared of trannies like you. I just think you're disgusting sub humans who need to be eradicated.
>>16368789
Then fuck off back to your safe space tranny..

>>16368797
>>16368885
transphobes seething

>>16366844
>Abercrummy is an INTENTIONALLY shitty writer!

>>16365943
>and its making me realize I need only to cho[o]se that again.
Good post, Narniabro.
I remember being struck as a preteen by the sober transition into responsibility that Peter and Susan have to make as High King and Queen. I was then so sad for them when they were told that they were too old to return. It seemed a harsh repayment after they had risen to the challenge but Aslan knew best.

>>16368642
>not understanding irony

>>16369240
> unironic means ironic

>>16369259
>not following how many layers deep we are at this point

>>16367737
Thank you anon, I appreciate it. Just to verify, The Gunslinger your recommending is by Stephen King?

>>16367992
>The real problem is that the book ends with them walking like idiots into the pawns of Aspen
Pretty much. It's weird how Tenar meets with a Master mage from Roke, the other wizard from Gont and 2 witches and nobody notices Aspen's curse on her.

>>16365076
Have you read any of Matthew Hughes' books, fellow Vance aficionado? If so, how do you think they stack up? Planning to read God in Chains soon.

>>16369871
Greetings, Vancebro!

I have only read his Henghis Hapthorn trilogy, several years ago. The protagonist, an investigator, is strongly reminiscent of Miro Hetzel or Magnus Ridolph while the setting is civilized magical. I thought it was pleasant but I have no strong opinions on it, possibly because I don't particularly care for the Vance novels that they emulate.
After reading the Songs of the Dying Earth and this trilogy, I have the notion that there is an Uncanny Valley effect that prevents me from forming attachments to authors associating themselves with Vanciana.

If you find this is not true for yourself, there is a Spatterlight Press label called Paladins of Vance that appears to be publishing stories set in his milieu. Tais Teng last year published pic related, for example. I am debating whether to read it myself but I think I won't for the same reason that I have no desire to read Quest for Symbilis.

>>16353765
>Come back after year long hiatus
>Sandersoomer still shilling cringe
Well I see I haven't missed much over here

I fucking hate people and authors who obsess over tropes. Write a good story. I don't give a shit if some parts of it are a bit cliche or if it's ""pushing boundaries"" by fitting perfectly into the current social climate, or if it was written to break every trope in the genre. Why do people care so much? Something that sucks your ideological dick can still be horribly written and be a bore because the story sucks because the writing is all that matters.

>>16370334
This post was unironically written in direct response to visiting the fantasy subreddit for the first time after someone linked it. Never again.

>>16370030
I have both of their paperbacks and will read Teng's pastiche soon, as I'm currently reading through the Alastor books (just finished Trullion). I think you might want to give Quest for Symbilis a chance, though. Michael Shea's style isn't all too similar to Vance, but he was a very baroque and somewhat fantastically flamboyant writer in his own right. If you'd want a taste of his science-fantasy writing, I'd suggest reading one of his Nifft the Lean stories to see if you'd like him enough to try out Symbilis.

>>16370391
Thank you, I will try Nifft the Lean.
I would likely still not try Quest for Symbilis for aesthetic reasons but at least I can do Michael Shea justice on his own turf.

>>16367212
Yeah Tehanu deserves some criticism for sure. The first three books are great and very comfy. I liked The Other Wind well enough actually, it's pretty good.

NEW THREAD
>>16370645
>>16370645
>>16370645

>>16365076
>There's a boomer message board with some august personages of far greater erudition than my own
source?