/lit/ - Literature

>>16349200
I don't read Hegel at all.

>>16349200
If it is impossible to translate and idea then it wasn't worth reading at all. This is especially true of German, as their language was made by and for autistic retards.

>>16349243
based

>>16349200
not from doucheland so no

>>16349200
Can anyone on this board provide a specific example of a passage from one of Hegel's books where the translation affects your interpretation in a significantly differing way from Hegel's intent?

>>16349200
>that which sublates, is that which, having been sublated, is itself sublated by that which was sublated, which has turned in on itself; which, having turned in on itself, turns in on its other, which is its turning in on itselfs turning in on itself, which itself is sublated by itself, which is its other having been sublated, which is its true self.
is the whole book like this?

>>16350070
Poorly worded but fairly accurate

>>16350053
No

>>16350070
Sometimes I wonder if he shouldn't simply have drawn a diagram, but apparently he was against picture thinking so perhaps not.

Hegel's baloney in any language.
>¶257. The point that, as related to space, developed into volume also appears as itself indifferent, that is, unrelated to the quiescent next-to-one-anotherness of space. It marks itself off: “Thus posited for itself, it is time.”(die Zeit) Note well: notapoint of time, but Time itself, not a nowintime, but a principle of time. That the point is “posited””for itself”means only that, in the usual dialectical movement, it becomes thought-determined (or mediated) as an other. But because the point negates the indifference of space in the sphere of self-externality, it leaves space, in its inert side-by-sideness by the way. Thus arises time as distinct from space, as the other of space.
"Turn the middle side topwise!"

>>16349200
it all made sense in *esperanto*

>>16349200
Reading translated philosophy is acceptable because it's only about ideas, and not wordplay like novels or especially poetry. Fuck off, pseud.

How can you even into philosophy as a non-german?

>>16349200
evelyn?

>Hegelians care about the original

>>16352100
"Philosophy is kinda poetry" heidegger i think

Not like you read him for the prose

>>16352100
Hegel would disagree

>>16352171
Yes?

>>16349200
>wait, you read Hegel in *english*?
Is that "read" in past or present tense?

>>16353450
are you for real lmao

unblock me on tumblr :^)

>>16349243
Literally this

>>16353481
Sorry I’m fuckin w you mate

>>16353481
Who is Evelyn and why did she block you anon?

>read second sources that don’t make sense
>read first source with Hegel
>nigga wut

>>16352100
Classic monolingual mistake. The translated text is not transparent, language is exactly the tool we use to express ‘ideas’. They aren’t something self evident beyond the writing in which we receive them. Just because an author isn’t trying to meet requirements for verse or spell out a pun doesn’t mean that their language is somehow linguistically self-evident. This is especially true of a language like German, which English simply doesn’t have the necessary tools to adequately represent. But there are tons of deep contextual cues and etymological resumes that come into play with a philosophical vocabulary, or just with writing in general. Translation is never not a massive barrier to genuine engagement with an author and his work, imagine thinking you know a place because you’ve seen a picture or a portrait of it

>>16354026
an old friend, we had a falling out. i don't really miss her desu shes kinda crazy, but this post is literally an exact joke she's made many times, and i know she still goes on 4chan sometimes

http://faculty.washington.edu/mbrown/hegel.puns.pdf
Here are some puns that don't translate well, in addition to the famous Aufhebung

>>16354524

You’re arguing for the value of language, then devaluing the work needed for a translation to work while arguing for the need to learn an old language to reach better understanding?
Germans built the German language. We will need to do the same. This thinking that these various obstacles are needed for human understanding is bullshit. It’s fun to get into philosophy. I’ve learned French and some Greek but I still think the ultimate aim is for people to build a language that will build us. Rather than the individual go through obstacles to hang out with elites that are completely irrelevant in real life and the people you meet there.

>>16352100
But if the translator misunderstands the ideas you're fucked.

>>16355086

Anons will tell you about bad translations. For example, the negative dialectic translation are supposedly terrible. There’s this new translation being worked online but I lost the link. If anyone has it.

>>16355034
Nobody "built" the German language. Germans built a philosophical vocabulary through centuries worth of loan-translation but Deutsch itself is a product of slow evolution through the practices of millions and millions of speakers across hundreds of years (thousands if we start by looking at the moment when the Germanic languages began to shift away from Slavic or Italic). It is a unique entity, with its relatives closer or more distant yes, but distinct and with words which aren't simply reducible or transferable to another language. Maybe I wasn't clear but I'm not trying to make some kind of abstract and meaningless point about human understanding like that we must "build a language that will build us". Language poses a very concrete interpretive problem, because you can't just expect to take a word and find a perfectly corresponding word in your target language. It just doesn't work. This should be intuitive. Imagine if you took an essay of Locke or Hume and then replaced every important term they used with a loose synonym. Do you think the essay would be the same? Because that's a charitable analogy to the effort that a translator makes.