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/lit/ - Literature


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16328113 No.16328113 [Reply] [Original]

His arguments are like a sharp knife and he cuts with such a precision that you can't do anything than to lean back and think "Fuck, he's right."

>> No.16328278

His arguments are all too familiar and he plagiarizes with such a precision that you can't do anything than to lean back and think "fuck, he's a fraud."

>> No.16328591

>>16328278
completely false, but nice try

>> No.16328644

I'll never take him seriously when he comes up with terrible ideas like "surrogate activities"

>> No.16328660

>>16328644
>t. pleb who does surrogate activities

>> No.16328683

>>16328660
There is no observable surrogacy in an activity if one enjoys doing it.

>> No.16328687

>>16328683
Did you even read ISAIF from start to end?

>> No.16328693

>>16328687
No, but I read all the parts referring to surrogate activities. The concept is unphilosophical.

>> No.16328745

>>16328693
>No, but I read all the parts referring to surrogate activities
Well, clearly not, he addressed it and you didn't even understand the concept.

>These are not always PURE surrogate activities, since for many people they may be motivated in part by needs other than the need to have some goal to pursue. Scientific work may be motivated in part by a drive for prestige, artistic creation by a need to express feelings, militant social activism by hostility. But for most people who pursue them, these activities are in large part surrogate activities. For example,the majority of scientists will probably agree that the “fulfillment” they get from their work is more important than the money and prestige they earn.

>For many if not most people, surrogate activities are less satisfying than the pursuit of real goals (that is, goals that people would want to attain even if their need for the power process were already fulfilled). One indication of this is the fact that, in many or most cases, people who are deeply involved in surrogate activities are never satisfied, never at rest. Thus the money-maker constantly strives for more and more wealth. The scientist no sooner solves one problem than he moves on to the next. The long-distance runner drives himself to run always farther and faster. Many people who pursue surrogate activities will say that they get far more fulfillment from these activities than they do from the “mundane” business of satisfying their biological needs, but that is because in our society the effort needed to satisfy the biological needs has been reduced to triviality. More importantly, in our society people do not satisfy their biological needs AUTONOMOUSLY but by functioning as parts of an immense social machine. In contrast, people generally have a great deal of autonomy in pursuing their surrogate activities.

>> No.16328816

>>16328745
He didn't address it. Those passages were some that I had in mind.

>One indication of this is the fact that, in many or most cases, people who are deeply involved in surrogate activities are never satisfied, never at rest.
Artists are never at rest... they aren't even artists if they are at rest. Why an activity should be regarded as "surrogate" and such an activity "less satisfying" because the doer is restless or driven by something other than a direct need is not properly justified in the text. What I agree with is the notion that many people are involved in activities they don't belong in, but in almost all such cases they have no other choice.

>> No.16328896

>>16328816
The point is not that the activity is bad in and of itself but such an activity only emerges in an artificial system like ours.
He doesn't say the people who do it are bad but because the main reason for these activities is the system so the main beneficiary also the system. All the millions of people who think they do it for themselves and act in their own interest end up strengthen a system that will cause their own demise.
That's the whole point why he brought up this idea, not to shame the activities.

It's like in "The System’s Neatest Trick", where the systems manages to convince people to work for it and think they work against it at the same time.

>> No.16328914

Surrogate activities is simply alienation, but I wouldn't expect the morons who couldn't intuitively grasp the brilliance in Kaczynski's works to bridge the gap between these two concepts.

>> No.16329084

>>16328914
this

>> No.16329086

>>16328113
>No you can't just crush up those berries to make a cave painting grug that's a surrogate activity!!!!

>> No.16329158

>>16328896
The system isn't artificial. It creates excess because it is efficient, and it can't be efficient if it is artificial.

>> No.16329169

He suffers from Martin Luther syndrome in that his diagnosis of the symptoms is spot on but the diagnosis will kill the patient

>> No.16329180

>>16328914
I'd like to know what the alternative is besides euthanizing millions of people for being in dead end jobs / unemployed. Is that the desired goal?

>> No.16329186

>>16328914
It's not though, even a guy who owns what he produces isn't fulfilled in the power process in Ted's terms.

>> No.16329251

>>16328113
he was wrong about almost everything in ISAIF

>> No.16329280

>>16329158
>>16329251
You live in denial

>> No.16329338

>>16329280
You don't live, and that's the problem. Ted and his readers don't enjoy living.

>> No.16329379

>>16329280
i used to follow him though. human action is not marked entirely by the attainment of "true" goals, which are then replaced by surrogate activities when physical or other necessities have been met too easily. it is also marked by the escape from our own condition, which is expressed best in the religious longing, or the father-complex. this is intrinsic to human nature and if it wasnt we would not have gods or possibly even authority figures, which demonstrate our desire for something higher than this world and that is expressed in the surrogate activities of prayer or ritual. surrogate activities are normal and have existed since before technological society. ted is wrong.

>> No.16329642

>>16329158
>it cant be artificial if it is efficient
??????

>> No.16329666
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16329666

>>16328278
>his writings not being original means they are automatically wrong

>> No.16329704
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16329704

>>16328113
Ted ignores the possibility that human extinction and the destruction of all life might be a good thing. Technology killing all life means that suffering will no longer exist.

>> No.16329926

>>16329379
>this is intrinsic to human nature and if it wasnt we would not have gods or possibly even authority figures, which demonstrate our desire for something higher than this world and that is expressed in the surrogate activities of prayer or ritual. surrogate activities are normal and have existed since before technological society.
No, these things only emerged in nation states. You had no personal Gods for example when people lived in nature and you still don't have them in primitive societies. People in nature have just an appreciation for natural phenomena.

>> No.16329938

>>16329704
>Technology killing all life means that suffering will no longer exist.
Technology will not kill ALL life idiot. And if you think having a state of absolutely no suffering, you're delusional.

>> No.16329944

>>16329938
*having a state of absolutely no suffering is possible

>> No.16329948

>>16329704
Why haven't you killed yourself then? That way you 100% won't have children or keep on living in suffering.
>inb4 but death is really bad too!
Yeah, but it's inevitable. Therefore, the logical conclusion for an AN would be to kill himself immediately. Also consider organ donation

>> No.16330175

>>16329938
So? Even if it kills off most life, that's still a lot better than the current situation.

>>16329948
Only cowardice and incompetence keep me alive.

>> No.16330213

>>16328693
>No
God damnit /lit/

>> No.16330273
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16330273

>>16329926
>In his lifelong solitude the Naskapi [Indian] hunter has to rely on his own inner voices and unconscious revelations; he has no religious teachers who tell him what he should believe, no rituals, festivals, or customs to help him along. In his basic view of life, the soul of man is simply an inner companion, whom he calls “my friend” or Mista’peo, meaning “Great Man.”

>…Those Naskapi who pay attention to their dreams and who try to find their meaning and test their truth can enter into a deep connection with the Great Man. He favors such people and sends them more and better dreams. Thus, the major obligation of an individual Naskapi is to follow the instructions given by his dreams, and then to give permanent form to their contents in art.

>> No.16330469

>>16328693
Your argument is unphilosophical.