/lit/ - Literature

>>16295674
Where to start with him?

>>16295674
I like Joseph and he makes good points, but I do t think we should go from one total extreme to the other. the whole time period wasnt just a polemic devide, but it was a complicated development of thought. there was polemics within the wider movement if course, but its not the entirety of it.

>>16295692
The Saint Petersburg Dialogues, probably.

>>16295674
Even today, atheists are still fighting a strawman, just read Dawkins' The God Delusion.

>>16295674
You needed De Maistre to realize this? You ignored all platonists, christian theologians, poets and mystics?

>>16295674
He's a bit long-winded though I like how he writes.

>>16295674
Is this the non-insane version of Evola?

I like Evola's writing style and his arguments but he is clearly unhinged and insane. I've been looking for a writer who is not as disconnected from reality

>>16295793
It's different. When you open a book written by Evola, some kind of supernatural fury hits you in the face since the first paragraph. I have to admit that makes my pee-pee hard.

De Maistre is different. Imagine some faggy dude with a wig saying "excuse me, monsieur, but your entire philosophy is retarded. Let me refute it, point by point, with your own arms", and he starts talking calmly for ten hours, only getting angry at their stupidity from time to time. That's de Maistre.

>>16295808
you're understating the polemical quality to de Maistre's writing, he gets rather agitated. Also he is quite dramatic, the literal first sentence of Considerations sur la France is 'Nous sommes tous attaches au trone de l'Etre supreme par une chain souple, qui nous retient sans nous asservir'.

>>16295830
'We are all attached (?) to the throne of the Supreme Being by a [whatever] chain, that we retain without [I don't know]'

Still learning French, what does it mean?

>>16295851
Souple is supple. Asservir i dont know what would be an english synonym

>>16295793
He's a Rene Guenon who's head isn't up in the clouds, though I like Guenon.

>>16295851
He's saying we're tethered but free to make choices. Also sorry for lack of accents and stuff, idk how to make my keyboard have other language symbols.

>>16295872
enslave?

>>16295872
probably 'enslave'

>>16295830
Yes, he is polemic and -above all- dramatic, which I don't think is too different from other writers of the same era. However, there's something about Evola that makes him unique. The other poster describes it as "unhinged", but for me it's like a voice from the dead. It really feels like the writing has some supernatural quality to it. De Maistre is nowhere near close to this level of "unhinged".

>>16295893
I haven't read much Evola, can you post an example?

>>16295893
which Evola book evokes this quality? sorry, not him.

>>16295879
This is a helpful advertisement. Intro to the Study of Hindu Doctrines and East and West were great. Annoying that school is starting again since I won't have as much time to read through the rest on the chart.

>>16295896
>>16295904
All of them, but Pagan Imperialism is probably the best example.

It's impossible to put a quote here that reflects this, because it is not a kind of writing that gives great "immortal" quotes. It is their general atmosphere. It is simple and straight to the point, so much so that it is almost "inhuman", and you can feel a very strong fury underlying it. It hits you right in the face, almost since the first paragraphs.

>>16295941
>The current ‘civilisation’ of the West is expecting a substantial upheaval, without which it is doomed to collapse sooner or later.
>It has realised the most complete perversion of every rational order of things.
>There is no longer breath, nor liberty, nor light in the realm of matter, of gold, of the machine, of number.
>The West has lost the meaning of command and obedience.
>It has lost the meaning of Action and of Contemplation.
>It has lost the meaning of hierarchy, of spiritual power, of mangods.

lol I see what you mean. srs business.

>>16295674
Up to the second dialogue so far and he's talking about etymologies and how primitives had a much better grasp of language compared to modern man, due to them being more spiritual and stuff
Not anything new since I got it from jung already.
His first dialogue was fun though
When does it start to get really good?

>>16295941
>It's impossible to put a quote here that reflects this, because it is not a kind of writing that gives great "immortal" quotes. It is their general atmosphere. It is simple and straight to the point, so much so that it is almost "inhuman", and you can feel a very strong fury underlying it. It hits you right in the face, almost since the first paragraphs.
This description reminds me of my first encounter with the Qur'an.

>>16297181
did you read it in Arabic? I read about half in English translation and i got a little bit of what people mean, the kind of ecstatic revelation thing, but it didn't seem actually holy in the way people talk about it, more like a very intelligent and maybe sort of manic person spouting his thoughts.

>>16295893>>16295896

>However, there's something about Evola that makes him unique.

what i hate the most about intellectuals, liberals, vapid weak men is their infatuation with the state and monarchy and their pathetic craving for external justification from asian fan fictions.

this is why mass literacy is a mistake.

>>16295674
>you realize that Christians were fighting a giant strawman of what they believed paganism was; their understanding of "religion" and "gods" was akin to that of a five year-old. They didn't refute shit.
It's a story as old as time itself. Subversive forces are not interested in truth.

>>16295674
>But, when you read de Maistre, you realize that these people were fighting a giant strawman of what they believed religion was; their understanding of "religion" and "superstition" was akin to that of a five year-old. They didn't refute shit.
Really, what part of it was a strawman?

>>16297258
You are literally a liberal.

>>16297258
Why would liberals be monarchists? Fucking dumbass.

>>16297513
no liberals are bad ppl, I'm the good anarchist

>>16297527
>good anarchist
The only good anarchist is the one on a noose.

>>16297529
redpilled and dare i say it based

my big cock in big nigger boy butts

>>16295674
Nietzsche repealed me from Christianity because of his critique of the enlightenment, Christian egalitarianism and reason over intuition that lead to its demise and the downfall of our civilization. Will Maistre be able to save me?

He creates the largest strawman of them all.

>>16297754
Neitzsche:
>"God is dead. Now how will we know up from down?"

de Maistre
> " why do you assume we ever knew up from down? Did man not suffer even when God was alive?

That's how I imagine a convo between them, having just finished 3rd of St peterburg dialogye

>>16297754
Read Scheler

>>16297258
But the State seems to be one of the greatest inventions of mankind. Without a monopoly of violence we can't have social organization in any large scale, which leads to constant infighting at the local level, plus we lose all industrial technology and most philosophy, art, entertainment and science.

>>16295692
You don't. He is reactionary. Worthless.

>>16298168
>

>>16298182
>upset jackck posting
These are exactly the sort of folk that read reactionaries. I'm done bumping this trash.

>>16298194
dont hit your head on the way out

>>16295674
>Read something old or reactionary
Yoo based based redpill look at me haha i'm redpilled this {shit} is the real redpill i'm smart and original

>>16298195
I wont and sage.

>>16295779
hearthy kek

>>16295736
He's right. A homophobe cannot possibly be a God. End of story.

>>16295674
this made me want to read de maistre, where to into?

>>16298168

>>16298249
Seething.

>>16298206
this is the kind of terminally ill chapocel who is more than ready to tell you that right wingers cant into irony

>>16298206
Seething

>>16298277
They can't.

>>16298206
>Nooooo! You can't react against my subversive bullshit! You have to let (((me))) slowly turn the world into a giant consumption machine composed of atomized individuals!

>>16297258
This sounds like an artificial intelligence trying to imitate Nietzsche.

The recent Hermitix podcast on de Maistre is pretty comfy.

https://hermitix.podiant.co/e/the-life-and-work-of-joseph-de-maistre-with-carolina-armenteros-38b240fbd8d5f6/

>>16298373
Reactionary fucktard logic.

>>16298432
Cope

>>16297258
Yea obviously they're not liberals but youre onto something, kid

>>16297258
>hurr durr I'm so based and redpilled
>reject any authority and behave like a nigger hurr durr be LE SUPERMAN
kys

>>16295674
based

>>16295779
this

>>16298230
Homosexuals reproduce via molestation of children. It's a man-made disease. Sinful men created it, not God.

>>16298432
kys

>>16295952
Evola's not wrong

>>16298432
>NEW GOOD OLD BAD REEEEEEE

>>16295674
Nah, religion is, was, and always will be horseshit.

>>16295699
I just read all 444 pages of this and I dont the word "women" was used even once

>>16302243
There's a section in the appendix about sacrifices in which de Maistre starts simping for women and saying Christianity "liberated" them. Not all the editions have it, though.

Also, why is it important if he talks about women?

>>16302243
Based

>>16301943
>OLD GOOD NEW BAD REEEEEEEE

>>16302388
>no you

>>16302369
Its bad humor...
anyway good read though I am still doubtful on many of his points. I dont think I am well read enough of those he criticizes to be the target of the text.

>>16298230
Fag

>>16295674
>Catholicism is based

Read more

>>16298161
Or as De Maistre would put it “The word people is a relative term that has no meaning separated from the idea of sovereignty, for the idea of people evokes that of an aggregation around a common centre, and without sovereignty a people cannot come together nor have political unity.“

Reminder to the thread that Cioran made some literary-critical remarks on de Maistre in his later period.

On Sacrifices and Chapter 10 in Against Rousseau are probably my favorite by him so far. Brilliant man. Unfortunately these ideas did not win out in the end because they are not as useful for power as liberalism is

>>16303605
so he can finally say Catholicism is true? agreed.

>>16295674
I enjoy when he compleltly destroys bacon and baconism, a good intro into the science as propaganda meme as well. It's all scientism, "science" doesn't exist it's a vague catch all of various fields

>>16295674
>I'm still not a Christian, but Catholicism is based.
same, but Maistre was clearly just maintaining the unbroken tradition, even if christianity is very gay. This is obvious by seeing he used to be on the other side until he was disillusioned. I claim Maistre for the traditionalist/perennial school.

>>16295941
mystery of the grail was the first work of Evola I read, I've heard some call it boring, if it doesn't resonate with your spirit I don't think Evola is for you.

>>16302369
Christianity definitely liberated women.

>>16303704
Keep de maistre's gibberish outside my posts

>>16305311
dilate

>>16295674
Basado

I've seen this pop around in threads like these, but where is this quote taken from? His "On Sacrifices"?

>>16306682
It's from the Dialogues of St. Petersburg.

>>16306706
Thanks. Do you know which dialogue, specifically? I'd like to check the whole section.

>>16306682
Reactionary drivel.

>>16306739
>>16305693

>>16306714
It's from the seventh dialogue.

>>16306747
Reactionaries seem to be obsessed with MtF vaginal dilation.... why is that?

>>16306762
Many thanks.

>>16306769
MtFs seem to obsess with reactionaries. A match made in Heaven.

>>16306769
I'll give you a real answer-- it is because the concept is absurd. "dilate" is used to remind you of how ridiculous masquerading your autogynephilia as being a woman is, how disgusting you are, it epitomizes how ridiculous you are, dismissing whatever garbage you said by bringing forward the lucid reality that whatever you said was done by someone who performs dilation. It's a reminder to you and everyone around you that you are hysterical, reidiculous, and not to be taken seriously. Mentally inept, spiritually dead, and morally retarded. It is even worse to reference dilation to someone who isn't a trans, because they are so far gone they give off the impression of being trans without even having the excuse of sincere mental illness. It is the same for believing you are a homosexual, to give off that impression, and not even indulge in your depravity is extremely pathetic, at the very least, fetish freaks are ruled by their passions, you on the other hand do it for free, you get nothing out of the master slave relationship.

>>16306788
No problem.

>>16295736
>He thinks it's even possible to categorically address a large group of people without strawmanning them