/lit/ - Literature

>God is defined as an infinitely perfect being.
>Perfection includes existence.
>So God exists.

>>16292552
what mickey mouse says in the pic is highly intelligent

>>16292552
If you have a random distribution of realities of something and nothing, only the realities with something can become self aware.

>>16292552
It is the nature of nothing to be non-existent

Think of everything that exists. That's a heckin' lot of things. Now imagine the probability of none of those things existing. Newsflash: it's almost zero, y'all.

>>16292558
Why must there be an infinitely perfect being?

>>16292781
There mustn't

>>16292781
please provide us with a better explanation (with proof) to explain how something can come out of nothing

>>16292800
>bullshit in, bullshit out

>>16292800
>how something can come out of nothing
Something what?

>>16292800
God is just a word game to you people, a little logic puzzle you can use to fill in the gaps in your knowledge and feel more assured. In b4 "not an argument," I'm not trying to argue, I'm telling you to eat my ass

>>16292558
Why does perfection exist?

>>16292729
Why does probability exist?

>>16292800
There is no explanation because all of them rely on information about our something world, and not a nothing world. We cannot understand what nothing is as we have no way to experience or percieve it. Even if we ignored the often very material depictions of god and look purely at the abstraction, creation is an activity of something and not nothing, and if we assume that there was nothing before there was something as we often do, god and creation do not fit anywhere. We can always just ask the classic question, midwit as it is, "well what made god? Was nothing before him?"
You could call god eternal, with no beginning and no end, but time itself and therefore even the concept of eternity is again just a perceivable idea within the universe we experience and has no status outside of the something.

>>16292552
Nothing doesn't exist

>>16292960
therefore, there needs to be no proper explanation for what is, just like visual art, it can simply be and nothing more.

>>16292552
There is no nothing. The universe is eternal.

>>16292552
The real question of today is now
>why is there nothing rather than something?
Why is there only the truth-effect of simulacra rather than truth? Why is production entered into an unending process of reproduction? Why do revolutions only end by bringing more desire? Why do signs freed from their referent function better?

>>16292800
Why should the nothingness be the natural, primordial state of universe? Why should there be nothing rather than something?
The primordial state is the absolute potentiality of GOD, both nothing and everything. Something came out as GOD became to realize himself.

>with proof
Where is the proof of your perfect god?

>>16292729
And maybe, just maybe... that's a good thing

>>16292806
>>16292812
>>16292820
SEETHING. Oddly enough, even if God were to not exist, he'd still exist in your minds, rent-free.
>>16292885
this is more like an argument. Still, saying the Universe and all in it has always existed and always will doesn't answer the next question, which is "prove how can motion happen, knowing all we know about the laws of motion, without a First Mover" and please provide proof. Also, I'd ask you to provide a theory as to why there is temporal continuity (considering that the only time that exists is present time) and what process maintains it, oh, and of course, with proof

>>16292558
>>Perfection includes existence.
Ever seen perfection? How come existence is pure imperfection on imperfection?

>>16292994
>hurr where is your proof
Pic related

>>16293021
perfection by definition will include all things, all satisfied - its etymology is from the latin word for "accomplished"

>>16293037
What? Plagiarism of Aristotle? Elaborate on how he arrives at a perfect, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent and omniscient Christian god.

>>16293051
All things, all satisfied... which means imperfection, evil and all other horror as well? What does that make God, as an infinitely perfect being?

>>16292558
Why doesn't the non-existence imply the imperfection? I hope that you're just baiting.

>>16293068
those things have no ontological reality

>>16293078
So, morality is just as unreal? No matter what I do, I can do no wrong?

>>16293076
It's quite a famous argument dude, you'd hear it on any philosophy 101.

>>16292552
Because something is what is. If nothing were, would you call it nothing?

>>16293105
Doesn't make it any more valid.

>>16292552

Why should there be nothing to begin with?

>>16293937
It does expose you as a pseud though...

>>16292558
Based and redpilled if you aren’t going to use this to justify worshipping a dead jew.

>>16294101
Oh, dang! You sure got me there. What an argument!

>>16294400
I'm not in the habit of having arguments with people unfamiliar with the topic we're discussing.

>>16294453
What topic? The literal worst argument for the existence of god? God's existence can't be proven, grow up.

>>16292800
Thats a false dilema, since material surplus isn't contained in the material elements from which it was composed. You don't make fire with fire, even when you can propagate fire with fire. "Creation" is an outdated idea, since we can now talk about "production" which make the idea of "being", as stasis, prescindible.

>>16292558
>defining god into existence
Just because the conditions for a word to refer to something requires it to exist in reality doesn't mean there's something existent in reality that fulfills a l l the conditions of having the word applied to them.

God is infinite loneliness, an unparalleled and unequaled existence of omnipotentiality and omniscience seeking to reconcile its absolute isolation in illusory self-compartmentalization. We're an experiment of God's psychology.

>>16293020
Quantum mechanics addresses the first mover issue and the time issue.
>First Mover issue
There is no true vaccuum: quantum fields are, at minimum energy, fluctuating. Occasionally these fluctuations stack up and make something interesting happen. You'd rightly argue that this would take an immense amount of time, but I'll address this below.
>Continuity of Time issue
Time is not continuous. Rather, time is simply a counting process. Time measures the number of cycles a quantum state has gone through (especially if the state is bound, like an atom, in which case you can count "vibrations"). We experience continuous time because particles cycle faster than our brain's "frame rate."

FUCK YOU, YOU ALL STUPID NAZIS I HATE YOU

>>16294799
im sorry that was rude

>>16294799
>your theory of existance includes a cosmic force (albeit a personal one that is supercosmic or rather transcending the cosmos) that I don't like therefore your cosmic force is this particular literary figure which reminds me of christianity which reminds me of Ronald Reagan which reminds me of Trump and ORANGE MAN BAD therefore you are a nazi
Yikes

>>16294621
>quantum fields
a field in what, what's the substrate

>>16294812
Based

>>16293037

Ed Feser develops this argument here, and in several of his books:
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/07/so-you-think-you-understand.html

>>16292984
Based and Baudrillard pilled

There's only one unique empty possible world and infinite filled worlds.

>>16292552
Existence simply exists, there is no why. Causality is something that simply occurs within existence and does not apply TO existence. I paraphrase Rand.

>>16294621
>the answer to the state of non-existence is that non-existence has existent properties in it lol
another material cope for the immaterial added to the list

>>16292558
This kind of reasoning is as fallacious as
>A implies B
>B
>Therefore A

>>16295356
>infinitely perfect being infinitely perfect being God
>Perfection includes existence.
>So God exists.
He fell for the first order logic meme
>ALSO
the is defined as can be interpreted as an iff at which point it is fucking whatever with which one you start :D

>>16292660
based and read the early greeks-pilled

>>16294531
can I get an argument explaining how people can be proud of their ignorance of something, and simultaneously arrogant when giving their opinions on it.

>>16292573
If indeed variable universes exist then even the existence of one universe with God is all it would take for all to exist.

>>16292558
Where is the perfect island?

look at all you nerds thinking you have answers

>>16292558
This
>>16292660
And this.
>>16292552
Hylics will seethe but they're idiots.

>>16292660
Why are there more replies beyond this?