/lit/ - Literature

Threadly reminder that you're a brainlet if you participate in chart anons autism.

Did anyone else’s life noticeably improve after they started reading Wolfe?

>>16271888
I disagree.

Here is the tally of votes so far for the 2020 /sffg/ chart:

LOTR: 12
Book of the New Sun: 8
Malazan Book of the Fallen: 6
Throne of Glass: 6
Conan series: 6
Dune: 3
Prince of Nothing: 3
The Last Centurion: 3
Liveship Traders: 2
Stories of your Life and Others: 2
The Stars My Destination: 2
Powder Mage Trilogy: 2
Redwall: 1
Stormlight Archive: 1
Realm of the Elderlings: 1
Armor: 1
Gateway: 1
Cradle Series: 1
Curse of Chalion: 1
The Coldfire Trilogy:1
Abhorsen series: 1
The Black Company: 1
Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell: 1
The Expanse:1
Gentleman Bastards Sequence: 1
Discworld:1
Honorverse Series: 1
The Forever War: 1


I will continue to update it until Saturday night and then I will put the chart together.

The rules/how to vote:

1. To vote for any series/book currently on the list simply reply to this post with the following format:

">>[post number]
+1 Book of the New Sun"

and it will be counted.

2. To vote for a book or series not on the list, nominate it by replying to this post with the name of the series. This will count as a single vote and will enable others to vote for it as well. Only one nomination per post please. However, one can vote for as many nominated books as they want at once. This is to prevent a single post from adding dozens of obscure books to the tally.

3. If you want to vote for a book that has been nominated in the thread, but is not yet on the list, please respond directly to that post with the format outlined above.

4. Any repeated nominations will count as a single vote.

Thanks for the participation so far.

I have a pretty good attention span for everything except reading, so I like short stories. Joseph Campbell is good, as is William Gibson, and I have an Isaac Asimov and some sword and sorcery anthologies to get through.

>>16271954
+1 Throne of Glass

I like short stories, especially as a horror fan. I probably read horror short story collections about 50/50 with horror novels.

RED COUNTRY - JOE ABERCROMBIE PART IV

The Rebels plotline has been less than I thought it'd be. Maybe it's all resolved in the final part and more happens with it.
SULPHUR SPRINGS!
> Jubair put out a great arm and brushed him off the cliff.
How very casual indeed.
> All times are end times for someone
and a lot of times a person thinks they are, but they aren't, and that causes problems as well.
I thought LAMB was just going to do a surprise beheading of Waerdinur, but apparently not.
It seems that a lot of this part to was to say "Isn't it unfortunate what happened to the Dragon people? How do you feel about it?" To which I say, so it goes.
> Dragon's food
It's gold and similar.
> Flash at the top of the tower
They sure have improved their cannons quickly. You expected some epic battle? Too bad! It was massacre!
> Slipped it back into his bandolier
Call back to YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY KNIVES!
> Thousands once. Few now.
Within Crying Rock's lifetime? That's a preciptious decline, especially considering it's claimed they've been doing this for centuries.
> The sad fact is I just don't care much any more, either way. It bores me.
What a statement on a life.
> Do you truly the right is with you?
> Who cares about right?
That's life for you.
> Lamb had tried to kill Ro
One would think he'd become more judicious in its usage, but I suppose it can't be helped or controlled.
> DRAGON
Even though it doesn't have the slightest resemblance: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/chrono/images/6/6d/Dragon_Tank.gif/
Also, this doesn't seem much like a dragon in general. I don't know WHAT it's describing. It does have a hoard which apparently they thought would wake it up.
> Men kept vanishing
Revenge from the ones who went north or something else?
I had thought that this dragon cult was a joke about one in a different book, but that one came out a year later. Same publisher though and probably know each other.

>>16271991
PART V / END

> no mood to pay
> happily handing over ten times the price of the entire barrel for each mug poured
How quickly the mood changes.

> We can afford no further desertions
Oh, well, it seems the men disappearing were those who decided to desert, which was the best idea, assuming they were able to survive alone anyway.

> 50k marks
I still don't really understand their monetary system, since they use other terms and coins and other stuff, and how they convert to each other.

> Corlin was Conthus
Seems you were right and I was silly.

LOGEN keeps saying REALISTIC, even though he previously said it was worthless, and says it is again, and then says it still afterwards. It's just something he does.

> You're confusing how you'd like the world to be with how it is
People seem to have this problem in general with everything. I try to avoid thinking the former, but I don't know how well I do.

> You can never have too many knives
Oh, there it is.

> walked naked through a rain of arrows
That's one way to do it.

> about 20
The Bloody Nine sure can kill.

What an utter failure of keeping the wagon secure.
The Rebels appear at last, to take all the money to have quite the funding.

>Whitehouse...repugnant building in every sense...towards which for years she had directed all her hatred, cunning, and fury.
Just like in real life!

Seems the Crease in the Far Country has been smoothed out as if it were a skirt.

COAL IS KING!
Almost all my male maternal relatives for the last few generations were coal miners. Only one of my generation is. So, so, much revolved around coal here. The coal culture persists even today. I even had school field trips into coal mines. There were also multiple massacres in this general region over coal.

> Legate Sarmis
I admit I was tricked as well, but maybe I just allowed myself to be. I don't know.

|| Casca goes dumb here to me, but I guess the loss was too much for him to remain rational. I don't think he ought to be able to escape and his final scene was a bit strange, but I enjoyed it anyway. Abercrombie himself killed Casca. RIP.

At the end of BSC, Friendly attempted to go back to jail, but it didn't work out, so this is actually a great outcome for him as far as he's concerned.

Shy has taken up merchant life.
Temple and Kadhia could be in a Little Hatred, though I assume by that time it'll be under the ownership of a greater power.
Apparently Shivers just wanted to see him one last time, or decided again that it didn't matter.
Logen leaves, never to be seen again.
> Got be realistic.
> A man's got to be what he is.
Excuses

Part V brought this up to 5/5 for them, but I'll have to think it over for a bit. I enjoyed everything about it.

any other good colonial fantasy books. just got done with pic related and I need more

Would you guys prefer to go to Dunsany's Elfland or Tolkien's grey havens?

>>16271862
Often.
There are too many for now to consider, as I've probably read a couple 1000 if not more.
I could provide various, but to what end?

Is ASOIAF worth reading?

>>16272035
what do you like in a short story? do you expect a complete narrative or can it be a disjointed part of a larger story?

>find interesting looking books for €40 on amazon.de
>give them all my info
>finally see the total price
>additional €40 to mail them
yeah no

Is it true that fantasy stories tend to be better as short stories rather than full novels?

>>16272049
Yes. They're my favorite fantasy books.

>>16272049
up to storm of swords sure. after that, only if you really enjoyed it

>>16272080
no but a lot of fantasy novels would be better if they were trimmed down into novellas

>>16272053
It used to be more common, but it doesn't happen as much now that anthologies/magazines/collections and other stuff would include excerpts from novels for various reasons. This was an entirely stupid practice.
There are are also serialized works from an author that link to each other ins sequence, I am fine with these. They are between being complete and disjointed because while they could stand alone, they may refer back to the previous stories.
Science fiction seems to be more suited to short fiction than fantasy, as it allows for the exploration of an idea that wouldn't otherwise be able sustain itself in a longer work.
Most of the stories that I have noted that I particularly liked at the time, around 400, are SF.
Fantasy doesn't seem to work as well for me in the shorter mode.
The ideal length to me for short fiction is the novelette. (7,500 to 17,499 words). Short stories are well and good, but often they aren't quite long enough. They often can be very good. Novellas tend to adopt more of the conventions of the novel, and I consider them closer to a novel than short fiction, especially the longer novellas.

I like Greg Egan short stories, and I'm sure others here do as well.

https://www.gregegan.net/BIBLIOGRAPHY/Online.html

but my favorite short story is probably The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect. It's very post-Singularity. The story starts with a God-like AI running the universe (and basically existing under Asimov's Three Laws). Due to post scarcity economics, some humans are so bored, that for fun they've come up with a "death" game: You and your opponent come up with some fucked up way to kill each other, the God-like AI lets it play out, and then you're brought back to life.

http://www.localroger.com/prime-intellect/

>>16272150
I also bought a physical subscription to Asmiov last year and while it's neat to have, I don't have the time to read the Asimov stories AND read normal books.

>>16272049
Markedly better than your average "bestseller" fantasy book, at least.

>>16272157
Silly

>>16271954
+1 Stormlight Archive (Way of Kings)

/sffg/ kept telling me It was a dumpster fire, but I really liked the Dalinar and Kaladin arcs.
Shallan wasn't bad. I've read much worse female characters, why people shit on her so much?

Here my personal recommendations list

Legacy of the Aldenata/Posleen War, series by John Ringo (+Tom Kratman, Julie Cochrane, Michael Z. Williamson)
Voyage of the Space Bubble/Looking Glass, series by John Ringo (+Travis S. Taylor)
Troy Rising, series by John Ringo
The Council Wars, series by John Ringo
Paladin of Shadows, series by John Ringo
The Last Centurion, book by John Ringo
Empire of Man, series by David Weber & John Ringo
Honorverse, series by David Weber
Safehold, series by David Weber
Footfall, book by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
The Mote in God's Eye, book by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
The Gripping Hand, book by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
Lucifer's Hammer, book by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
Ringworld, series by Larry Niven
Foundation, series by Isaac Asimov
Worldwar, series by Harry Turtledove
After the Downfall, book by Harry Turtledove
Axis of Time, series by John Birmingham
The Disappearance, series by John Birmingham
The Forever War, book by Joe Haldeman
The Coming, book by Joe Haldeman
Realtime/Bobble, series by Vernor Vinge
Zones of Thought, series by Vernor Vinge

>>16272080
Sword & Sorcery is best in short stories, but something like Epic Fantasy is better as full length novels. The problem is modern Epic Fantasy is TOO goddamn long; not that it would work best in a short story format. The books are too long and the series are too long.

>>16272178
Because of their beliefs about women.

>>16272210
Borelight Asschives is shit and I say that as someone who has read a Red Sonja novel and enjoyed it. So no it has nothing to do with our "beliefs about women."

>>16271862
I love short stories, they're much better than novels as a format.

>>16272185
>Foundation, series by Isaac Asimov
How is this still so expensive?

>>16272221
Congrats on making the same sort of argument as "I can't be racist, I have a black friend/my wife is black!"

>>16272228
Capitalism

>>16272178
>but I really liked the Dalinar and Kaladin arcs.
Good, now you can join all the other idiots on reddit who think these flat, boring characters with painfully obvious arcs are deep and well-written.

>>16272240
That would imply that it's still popular. Is it?
You never hear about it.

I read almost nothing but short stories these days. I have a hard time getting motivated to read full length novels anymore; even novels I want to read. A bad novel takes up a lot more of your time than a bad short story.

Short story collection by a single author > full length novel

>>16272261
Just because you don't hear doesn't mean it isn't.

>>16272235
>you're guilty of whatever I accuse you of regardless of evidence
Okay, tranny.

>>16272270
Which is why I'm asking. Is it?

>>16272275
Congrats on your victim and persecution complexes for thinking every post is about you personally!

>>16272284
Now you're projecting. Take the L and fuck off back to plebbit.

>>16272282
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=foundation+asimov

>>16272291
I accept your defeat.

>>16272284
>he doesn't immediately assume all people are always talking about him at all times
i bet you've never even met a shadow person

>>16272319
Sure I have. I'm a shadow person. I talk with other shadow people about you all the time.

>>16272258
>these flat, boring characters with painfully obvious arcs are deep and well-written.
I liked Dalinar doubting himself, criticizing the nobles and the fact that the Heralds never left shard-based technology for the common people, to use in farming or hard labor.
I really liked the introduction of Kaladin to Bridge Four, and him being on the edge between falling into despair (Dying / Becoming the Wretch) and trying to survive against all the odds, both in the battlefield and in camp.
While not being the most amazing characters ever written, they're enjoyable to read, and the story is interesting enough for me to keep at it.
About the worldbuilding, you can say what you want about Sanderson, but at least he tried to make something different enough for other fantasy settings, and I've appreciated the effort.

>>16272508
Not that anon but I just finished the book too and I mostly agree with you. I liked Kaladin the most early on but I didn't really like how he turned into a wizard by the end of it. Felt cheap. Dalinar however had a great character arc I agree. I was bored for a lot of it though and felt like almost all the action happened at the beginning and end with a whole lot of meandering in-between. Book would be a lot better if they took the 5-6 twists and big moments at the end and distributed then more evenly throughout the rest of the book imo.

>>16272178
>>16272210
You enjoy anime tier writing and Sanderson is the master of it, so just own it.
Stop pretending it's anything more than basic bitch trash literature with one dimensional characters, flat prose and hundreds of pages stuffed with autistic 'world building' rigid magic systems instead of plot because that's what is easier for his linear brain to mass produce.

>>16272558
You seem excessively upset about people enjoying what you don't.

>>16271954
+1 To Fuck E William Brown

>>16271954
>Throne of Glass: 6

>>16271954
+1 to Throne of Glass

Anons looking for well written female characters, this is the series for you.

>>16272508
hope you enjoyed them so much that you want to read another two massive books worth of the same shit because nobody in these books ever develops and if they do they regress back into their own self in the next book again

>>16272178
>Shallan wasn't bad
Have you read all the books or just Way of Kings?

>>16272539
>I didn't really like how he turned into a wizard by the end of it. Felt cheap.
Yeah, I think Sanderson said something about that in a live on Youtube.
If I remember correctly, he was talking about how the story was supposed to go originally and how it went instead,: he had to "make it work" for the sake of the plot going forward and ended up with what you've read.
At least he went clean on that.
>>16272778
>nobody in these books ever develops
Damn, I hope you're wrong, or at least
>they regress back into their own self in the next book again
is somewhat justified....
>>16272783
>Have you read all the books or just Way of Kings?
Just Way of Kings.

>>16271994
I enjoyed those summaries, glad you liked the book anon

>>16272605
>enjoying what you don't
It's more like they enjoy things they shouldn't

>>16272813
honestly I didn't mind book 2 that much but book 3 was too long and not very good. I'll probably still give book 4 a try

>>16272558
What books do you recommend anon?

>>16272825
I've done several, this is just the first time I've posted them in the thread.

>>16272828
Who decides what ought to be enjoyed?

I like fantasy but never had the urge to read or watch game of thrones because its entire shtick is subverting expectations. Killing off a bunch of characters doesn't seem very fun or interesting. What else does it have going for it?

>>16272979
Unironically me.

>>16272968
Second time, rather.

>>16272981
Yes, I understand, you don't like it because it isn't your sort of escapism. Everything needs to go well for everyone all the time because the world is terrible enough without having to spend your leisure time wallowing in more terrible stuff.

>>16272985
It's your duty then to present everything one ought to enjoy so that people don't mistakenly enjoy ought they not enjoy. Failing to do so would be a complete failure to yourself.

>>16273012
>don't mistakenly enjoy what they ought not enjoy
fixed

>>16272981
Absolutely nothing, it's terribly written and an absolute chore to read. The "subversion" is almost entirely in killing off characters, which then just leaves you with an empty world filled with characters you hate, and no longer care about because they'll probably just die the second they get interesting anyway.

>>16273012
It's easier for me to just tell you when you're wrong, so that's how it's going to be.

>>16273028
That and you wouldn't want to decrease in any way the opportunities you have to be upset with people because you cherish them so dearly.

>>16273046
Yes. Now take your Sandershit back to where it belongs.

>>16273057
Much to your delight and consternation, we shall now.

>>16272825
Ideally the purpose is discussion of the book, which I had elsewhere.

Any books about people living on some outer world planet that has been cut from the rest of the civilization? Collapsed empire, galactic war, destroyed wormhole, forgotten, pre-FTL travel colonization shit etc.

Someone was recommending Super Sales on Super Heroes, so I read some of it.
It's pretty bad, don't bother.

>>16271954
>Throne of Glass
I see an anon is having a laugh.

>>16271954
+1 Throne of Glass

>>16273369
>>16271954
Also, for what it's worth:
+1 to Throne of Glass

>>16273020
It's not subversion though it's just realism. The strength of asoiaf was always that it's a grown up version of the traditional fantasy story.

>>16273378
All genre fiction is inherently for children.

>>16272000
>female MC

>>16272985
based

>>16273384
How is it for children when it's neither written with children in mind nor marketed to children?

>>16272185
Honorverse is shit, otherwise the books on the list that I've read are OK, if a bit pulpy.

>>16272235
he just provided evidence that he can enjoy books with female characters
your analogy is shit, because you totally can marry/befriend your inferiors, but if you can enjoy books with female characters that's a proof that you don't discredit something solely for having a female character

>>16273410
>Honorverse is shit
I am 14 books into the main storyline and waiting for more

That's why surveys that show the current result are even worse than normal surveys, it's too easy to manipulate them by voting on the funniest thing that already has a lot of votes.
>>16271954
+1 Throne of Glass

>>16272059
Amazon uses weight rather than size for delivery, so avoid DHL and it will be better for books.

>>16273291
Singularity Sky by Stross. The isolated planet is forcibly rejoined to civilization.

>>16271954
+1 Throne of Glass

>>16271954
The Black Jewels Trilogy

Read Dragon Emperor.

How do you guys find books to read?
I know that sounds like a really stupid question but other than typing shit in google like "alien invasion books". Is there some sort of site or app or forum?
Basically after I get done sloughing through a 1600 page book I just wanna read some cool little scifi things that don't require a standard workweek worth of reading.

>>16272825
you can join in the discussion:
SFFG book club discord
http://discord.gg/KWPCM7m

4th-6th: Sharp Ends
7th-12th: A Little Hatred
15th-20th: The Trouble With Peace
28th: The Iliad

Wow Throne of Glass must really be amazing.

>>16273658
>not having a backlog long enough to be its own book

>>16273658
Goodreads, tvtropes. I'm at the point where I have hundreds of books on my to-read list so I don't bother looking for more.

>>16273410
>PULP BAD
Why are trannies like this?

>>16273722
>PULP GOOD
Why are trannies like this?

>>16273777
Trannies can't meme.

>>16273658
Look at what others in this thread have read

>>16273410
That isn't what pulp means.

>the universe is going to end because an overly religious mom and dad wouldn't let their daughter be a lesbian

the book was interesting until i bit into that turd

what a fucking letdown

>>16274082
You need to go back.

>>16274082
Always look at a picture of the author before you read. That phenotype screams söymale.

>>16271954
+1 for Conan, Dune, The Last Centurion, Armor, The Expanse, Discworld, Forever War.
+I'd also like to nominate Arthur C. Clarke's Rama series.

>>16273410
Blows my mind how many people defend Honor Harrington on /sffg/.

This general legitimately has worse taste than Reddit.

>>16271862
Asimov 's the last question is my favourite short story

>>16274207
Show on the dolly where the laser-head warhead touched your super-dreadnought

>>16271947
No, but I still think about botns months after reading it.

>>16274130
>>>/lgbt/

>>16274082
>he trusted /sffg/'s "taste"

I have some crypto to sell you.

>>16271954
+1 for Book of the New Sun
+1 for Prince of Nothing
+1 for Conan series

>>16272998
Because introducing a trope just to zip down your fly and take a piss on it leaves your work just as dictated by them as if you'd played them all straight. It's the same old, same old- but...
Deconstructions are occasionally interesting; subversions are not.

About halfway through this and I like it so far (definitely better than those Ligotti stories I read). Though it seems like some of these modern weird fiction writers like to keep the horror/weirdness on the lower end of the spectrum; which I will admitted adds a certain level of realism that other weird/horror fiction might not have by going deeper into the weirdness. For example: the climax of one particular story is a father and his young son seeing a possible apparition through a broken window of a haunted house... and that's it. I liked it though, but talk about extremely low key.

man I just want some damn generational colony ships

>>16274443
https://best-sci-fi-books.com/19-best-generation-ship-books/

>>16274453
ok, well I guess I'm not the first to ask that lol
thanks mate

>>16274453
>top of the list has clarke, wolfe, and heinlein
oh boy

>>16271994

Posted something at the writing thread. Free read if anyone wants it.
>>16273773
>>16274501

>>16273386
is that actually a problem for you

>>16272235
>Congrats on making the same sort of argument as "I can't be racist....my wife is black!"

How many fucking racists would marry a black woman, you moronically dense faggot

>>16271954
Ok, +1 for Throne of Glass

>>16274657
Not him, but it's a red flag.

>>16272828
Then you should stop watching the Bachelor you worthless twink.

>>16274667
Plenty of massive racists have black friends at least. You know, people who say things like “you’re not like the other ones.”

>>16272185
Based

>>16273722
Don't get assblasted, I actually wrote that they are ok.

>>16274689
why

>>16274657
I just don't care about female MCs at all and it's boring to read about something you don't care about.

>>16274763
Because bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks.

>>16274763
>written by man
>is either unrealistic waifubait, fetishbait, or a caustic Ciri-tier lesbian with superpowers

>written by woman
>is either utterly lacking in agency or a lovable and perfect Reyclone

There are some exceptions like Howl's Moving Castle.

>>16274779
why

>>16274810
none of these apply to Dickinson's writing

I completely understand the willingness to avoid bad fiction but you could find much better guidelines than this

>>16273291
books set on the thousand worlds by george martin may meet your requirements. The background is that humans have spread far to many planets and then due to a long-lasting war, these societies regressed into a primitive culture. Dying of the light and windhaven are proper sized novels that i have read in the setting and they are pretty good.

>>16274854
I dunno man, that's just the way it is.

>>16274875
I'm sure you know

is it because you think women cannot have interesting thoughts or do interesting things

is it because you think it's impossible for you to identify with/recognize yourself in a woman

is it both

>>16274854
>here's ONE exception
That's what I'm saying. You get a few exceptions out of the endless stacks of trash. Plus, Dickinson isn't an SFFG writer, so I don't know what point you're trying to make.

If you're digging through genre trash, avoiding anything with a female protagonist is just good sense. You may miss out on a few great books, but you're saving yourself a lot of time. You automatically filter out all the Adares and Honor Harringtons.

>>16274906
Answer C: It's because the books are usually shit.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY DO YOU LIKE FEMALE MCs?!?
>inb4 tranny/seethe/cringe/dilate/sneed etc

>>16274716
that, yes. true racists would never sully their purity by bringing a negro into their family, however.

>>16274906
>it's impossible for you to identify with/recognize yourself in a woman

correct

I'm fine with female MCs so long as they're written by men and the stories were written before the 90s. I've only read one story written by a woman and it was exactly like listening to my mom tell a story; that is to say it was excruciating. Women love those kinda stories though so I don't have a problem with a chick writing with chick readers in mind; I just don't understand how men could enjoy those stories.

>>16274926
I've been in the same place. I only read shit about dudes written by dudes. never looked for a way to justify it like you do but in practice there was no real difference.

and when I stopped giving a shit about who it was about and who it was written by, and started selecting my books based on who was recommending them and why, I did not notice any drop or increase in the quality of the books I was writing. because it literally doesn't matter and this shit is all in your head.

I imagine you'll attack my tastes and/or person before you consider thinking twice about your book selection criteria though

>>16274906
>recognize yourself in a woman
Well, I'm not a tranny.

>>16274959
Le Guin and Hobb are two of my favourite authors, but I suppose they mostly write male MCs.

>>16272049
>Is ASOIAF worth reading?
Yes. Although who knows how much of it will get finished.

Of course, Gurm did say there was a chance WoW could be finished by the end of the year....way back in 2015.

>>16274984
so if we were to draw two circles containing the experiences and motivations and emotions of women they would have no overlap whatsoever

>>16274967
>only read shit about dudes written by dudes
I dunno why you're so salty about my preferences, but whatever. My criteria work pretty good in filtering out a lot of the trash that /sffg/ recommends, so I'm sticking to it. Every now and then I'll break my own rules for an "acclaimed" book, but it usually doesn't work out.

Anyway, you do you, girlfriend. Enjoy your Hunger Games.

>>16274959
>stories were written before the 90s
This is also a great filter to use. If the author is especially old, you can bump up the year.

>>16275010
Why are you so hung up on this. One woman's meat is another man's poison.
Simple as.

>>16275011
reading a book expecting it to be shit will affect your judgement.

I guess I am a little bit salty. you're mostly penalizing yourself, but it's also true that you and people like you make this thread pretty much pointless.

this is the only place where one can be even a little bit negative about sff books but half of the fucking material is out of the question and there is no reason for it other than, well, incel shit.

>>16274412
What's the difference between a deconstruction and subversion?

>>16275043
subversion is when you fuck with the expected outcome.

deconstruction is when you attack the premise itself and demonstrate that the expected outcome is not rational.

>>16275036
>reading a book expecting it to be shit will affect your judgement
On the contrary. Having low expectations always makes me judge a book less harshly.

>you and people like you make this thread pretty much pointless
Why are you so upset about us not liking the books you like?

>>16275070
So the difference is one has foreplay and the other doesn't, ok.

>>16275036
>this is the only place where one can be even a little bit negative
/sffg/ is not your safe space.

>>16275140
Subversion usually seems normal until the subversion itself, while usually a deconstruction from the get go changes the structure of the story.

So yeah, no foreplay vs yes foreplay

>>16275148
or maybe it's a matter of how much control you feel you have.

Did Extra Credits give Lord Dunsany a good look? Thoughts on the vid, /sffg/?

https://youtu.be/WumW5gIw9xs

>>16271888
fpbp

>>16275237
God. I did not want to learn his name was pronounced that way.

Looks like my final version of "That Scene" passed the sniff test. That said, I feel it lost a lot of the emotion by being written and not animated

>>16275400
What you've written isn't the final version.

>>16275405
true, but it's the final version for the first draft.

I can't believe I'm still only 70% done after two years. Then again, with how long it took just to get the idea together that's a relatively short amount of time

>tfw you're reading a short story you think is going to be pure horror about ghost babies and it turns out to be a sad, almost anti-abortion tale about a guy who just really wanted to be a father
I'm not crying; you're crying...

Red Country, First Law World #6 - Joe Abercrombie (2012)
This is a Revisionist Western / Wild West, and yes, it does take place in relative western part of the world in-universe as well. It's also doesn't lack for humor, though there is a decided lack of fantasy. The technological level is less than one might expect for a Western though, mostly the absence of guns. It isn't necessary to have read the previous two "standalone" books, but I'd advise it because it contains some spoilers for them. I don't involve myself with Westerns much, but I'd say a lot of the book draws from various Westerns and references a lot that I didn't pick up on. During a discussion I summarized the book as "We begin with True Grit then take the Oregon Trail where they meet the Lone Ranger and Tonto and arrive in Deadwood." Which doesn't cover the entire book or all of its influences by any means. I didn't have much in the way of expectations because I'm generally indifferent to Westerns, but I quite enjoyed this. It was rather nice reading all the way through, though the final part assured it of being a five star. This may be my favorite of the First Law World thus far.
Rating: 5/5

i'm sorry /sffg/ but i liked this female MC...

sanderfag is a hack

>>16275584
Is she your waifu now?

>>16271954
+1 for Throne of Glass

Any legitimately good and interesting examples of the whole "coward grows into a fucking badass" arc? Bonus points if the cowardly character is good-hearted and his cowardice stems from poor self-confidence that he's able to overcome. Or she; I'm not picky.

I know people here like to shit on webnovels and say they're all terrible or whatever, but I'm reading Worm and while I don't think it's the best thing I've ever read, I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

>>16275732
In other words, you want something to help you do that in your own life.

>>16275733
worm is trash

but if you like it, go nuts

>>16275834
You're not far off but you're not completely right either. I've made a lot of progress in dealing with anxiety and becoming more confident in general, but being stuck at home much of the time because of COVID has left me lacking a bit of the confidence I'd developed before. I feel like reading a story about someone else going through a more dramatic version of the journey I've made would be enjoyable and also inspire me whenever the fucking plague subsides to shake off the cobwebs and get back out in the world instead of falling back into old near-NEET levels of "sitting in my fucking house all day."

>>16275732
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/479507.Ghost_King

>finish BotNS
>go back to Earthsea
>actually enjoy reading again

>>16275897
Thanks! I've been meaning to check out Gemmell anyway, so I'll start with that book.

>>16275584
You've ascended.

>>16275393
Indeed. It sounds so off.

>>16273687
Thank you but I don't use discord, also I'd like to skip these books until the last part of the trilogy gets published next year. That way I can take my time rereading and the I won't have to stall between book releases

>>16272049
No

This was my favorite bit of dialogue from Harrow the Ninth:
>"But your fist is so big, and my butthole is so small."

>>16272049
Genuinely good character writing. Gets bloated past book 3, but there's still a lot of good in it. At this point people have given up GRRM ever finishing. We'll be lucky to get book 6 before he dies, let alone two more books.

>>16275732
Senlin Ascends, although the process is spread out among several books.

>>16275584
>caring what autists on the most obscure corner of a Tadjiki Pillow Fluffing Forum think

>>16275237
Those guys are fucking awful.

So the main theme of the Three Body Problem is literally just bitches be crazy, right?

Fun series, but man.

>>16271954
>No Earthsea
Neck yourselves.

Has anyone read the Gods of Blood and Powder series? The first novels seem quite good, very frantic and fitting a modern television shows spastic segmented pacing but I can't help but like the characters.

>>16277038
Only millennials are voting. Obviously Earthsea is better than 90% of that list.

>>16277061
Yes, the series is a sequel series to the Powder Mage trilogy in case you didn't know that already.
PM trilogy is 3/5 popcorn fantasy (The novellas in between are much better than the main books, read them if you haven't) and Gods of Blood and Powder improves on it in pretty much every way. Book two, Wrath of Empire is especially good and one of the best books I've read in a while and book three was a decent finale but felt like a bit of a letdown after book two. 4/5 series overall.

>>16275009
He recently announced it would be coming out in 2021, for real this time tho

>>16271954
This format for making a best of list is incredibly stupid.

>>16271862
List all your books with magical engineering. Go!

>>16271954
Faggot. I told you to add "the emperor's soul" and you didn't, but you added all the throne of ass troll votes?

>>16275139
>Why are you so upset about us not liking the books you like?
for you not to like the books I like you'd have to read them

and you won't because you hate women too much to read books about them

>>16277416
try rebbit, they love all the books written by women or for women

>>16275733
Worm is bad, but there are some passable webnovels.

>>16277380
Why the fuck would you care about this faggot. He did it all wrong so the result will be shit as always.

>>16277459
Examples?

>>16271954
-1 LOTR
-1 conan
-1 dune

>>16277492
Wandering Inn
Practical Guide to Evil
Worth the Candle
Mother of Leaning
Gods are Bastards

I don't like all of them but these are the names that usually pop up most often when people talk about the most high quality webnovels.

Are the Gaunt's Ghosts any good? Liked Abnett's Eisenhorn trilogy, but Ravenor was pretty meh in comparison

>>16277637
Not him but which ones don't have female MC, I'll check those out.

>>16277645
>40k shit
Yikes

>>16277637
Forgot one.
Eagles Flight is good too.

>>16277653
Worth the Candle (litrpg) and Mother of Learning don't.
Eagles Flight is multi pov (includes female povs) and Gods are Bastards I think is multi pov, not sure as I didn't get far into it.

Eagles Flight has the highest quality of writing and MoL is finished and has a simple easy to follow premise but the writing is weak, desu it's very anime like. I would start with either of these.

>>16277449
>they love all the books written by women or for women
this is what incels really believe

>>16277694
>>40k shit

>>16276954
you're just mad they saved us from running out of internets

>>16277380
Sorry, I missed this one because you formatted it like a retard. I've added it.

Also, just to let other anons know, saying "hurr why isn't X on the chart" does not count as a vote or nomination.

I know Kantbot is (justifiably) made fun of a lot here but I'm quite curious of what you guys think of his essay on Fantasy.

https://archive.fo/ICpq3

>Read anthologies, magazines, etc
>Search the authors of stories you liked
>Read their collections
>Search for similar writers of authors you like

>>16277851
I like Kantbot.
I feel bad how he's been bullied recently, and I don't think he handled it well despite his dismissive attitude
and I feel bad that I kinda joined in with liking posts and even making a few of my own (I've stopped now)

>>16271954
+1 Dune

>>16271954
+1 The Books of Babel
+1 The Book of the New Sun
+1 Kings of the Wyld

>ctrl+f
>"throne of glass"
>12 results

>>16278064
>>Read anthologies, magazines, etc

Any good fantasy anthologies and magazines? I grew up back when fantasy magazines were in decline.

Hello /lit/ .... I have never read any scifi short stories before....and when it comes to novels, have only read a couple of the classics...... I want to set myself the goal to read all Hugo, Nebula and Locus short story winners...is this a good idea?

Here is an updated tally with the additional votes from the thread so far:

Here is the tally of votes so far for the 2020 /sffg/ chart:

LOTR: 12
Book of the New Sun: 10
Conan series: 8
Malazan Book of the Fallen: 6
Dune: 5
Prince of Nothing: 4
The Last Centurion: 4
Liveship Traders: 2
Stories of your Life and Others: 2
The Stars My Destination: 2
Powder Mage Trilogy: 2
Stormlight Archive: 2
Armor: 2
The Expanse: 2
Discworld: 2
The Forever War: 2
Redwall: 1
Realm of the Elderlings: 1
Gateway: 1
Cradle Series: 1
Curse of Chalion: 1
The Coldfire Trilogy:1
Abhorsen series: 1
The Black Company: 1
Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell: 1
Gentleman Bastards Sequence: 1
Honorverse Series: 1
The Black Jewels Trilogy: 1
Rama series: 1
The Books of Babel

Kiddo Korner:
Throne of Glass: 13

Note: YA books will now be relegated to the Kiddo Korner. The Kiddo Korner will not be included on the final chart.

>>16271954
Clifford for President

Here is an updated tally with the additional votes from the thread so far:

LOTR: 12
Book of the New Sun: 10
Conan series: 8
Malazan Book of the Fallen: 6
Dune: 5
Prince of Nothing: 4
The Last Centurion: 4
Liveship Traders: 2
Stories of your Life and Others: 2
The Stars My Destination: 2
Powder Mage Trilogy: 2
Stormlight Archive: 2
Armor: 2
The Expanse: 2
Discworld: 2
The Forever War: 2
Redwall: 1
Realm of the Elderlings: 1
Gateway: 1
Cradle Series: 1
Curse of Chalion: 1
The Coldfire Trilogy:1
Abhorsen series: 1
The Black Company: 1
Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell: 1
Gentleman Bastards Sequence: 1
Honorverse Series: 1
The Black Jewels Trilogy: 1
Rama series: 1
The Books of Babel

Kiddo Korner:
Throne of Glass: 13

Note: YA books will now be relegated to the Kiddo Korner. The Kiddo Korner will not be included on the final chart.

>>16278064
>gatekeeping is a good thing
What does he even mean by this? Like, when dudes accost random women at comic shops to prove they already know trivia about the thing they're buying? Or does he just mean it's okay for not every element of a hobby to appeal to casuals? The latter I agree with and the former is cringe as hell.

>>16278238
Also:
The Emperor's Soul: 1

>>16278238
>Note: YA books will now be relegated to the Kiddo Korner. The Kiddo Korner will not be included on the final chart.
>Has Redwall, Cradle and Abhorsen on the main list.
It's incredible how you're getting dumber with every post you make.

>>16278238
Redwall is for kids before their teens, yet you get assblasted about a book for tweens. I don't get it.

>>16278206
You'll read a lot of good stuff that way. but you should probably stop at around 2010

>>16278238
+Malazan book of the fallen

>>16278109
>Kings of the Wyld
Really?

>>16278244
>dudes accost random women at comic book shops to prove they already know trivia about the thing they are buying
Show bob and vagene, since no man would believe that this is something that actually happens (besides maybe one vid of a mentally ill person, as of there weren't videos of ill people doing all kinds of strange shit) and even if they believed it he wouldn't actually care.

>>16278429
I've seen videos of it happening. I guess they could've all been mentally ill people.

>>16278238
Based Throne of Glass. We did it reddit!
Can we also get Kings of the Wyld up there? I know I'll do my part:

+1 Kings of the Wyld

>>16278238
How do you know people aren't +1ing the same books over and over again?

>>16278436
Do you have a boyfriend, beautiful lady?

>>16278238
Can you also make a faggy pulp trash corner and put Conan in it? Thanks.

>>16278421
I am pretty retarded, so I enjoy those sort of simple books. But I liked it and I am going to be pretty adamant about my opinions. After all, books are books and you are free to like whatever books you want my friend :)

>>16278200
I'm subscribed to The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction. Analog and Asimov's are the other big subscription magazines. Visit RocketStackRank and you'll come across the names of the free mags
Anthologies: The Best of The Best Horror of The Year - Ellen Datlow
The Very Best of The Best - Gardner Dozois

>>16278244
Yeah, it was the latter. I think it was the discussion over his essay on fantasy >>16277851

>>16278238
+1 The Black Company

The Farseer Trilogy - Robin Hobb
The Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin
Crown of Stars - Kate Elliott
The Faded Sun Trilogy - C. J. Cherryh

>>16278465
Yeah, I wish these polls were done more professionally, but I can't hate the effort

>>16278507
Do you know of any fantasy specific mags or anthologies? I love vintage Analog / science fiction and fact

>>16278507
>but I can't hate the effort
Yeah you can, monthly anon used to do it well without any effort on his part when we used to vote for book of the month. Chart fag guy is just a fucking moron.

>>16278495
What's with your fucking hate-boner for pulp? Do you hate everything inspired by it too? Moorcock? Gemmell? And everything influenced by them?

>>16278238
+1 Throne of Glass

>>16278238
you should consolidate all the realm of the elderlings series into one since there are separate votes for liveship and farseer and elderlings

>>16277449
there is no safe space for incel losers

other than the sweet embrace of death

>>16278530
What was the process for the Book of the Month?

>>16277637
>Wandering Inn
You again. I wish to find you and impress upon you my displeasure of being memed into reading such shit. 1000+ pages of NOTHING

>>16271862
>want to read fantasy
>every series is fucking hueg
Are there any good LotR sized fantasy series out there?

Imagine getting filtered by Sanderson

>>16277761
>"hurr why isn't X on the chart"
I didn't say that you absolute spreg. I said "you better put emperor's soul if you know what's good for you". Stop trying to save face when you absolute lost all credibility.

>>16278607
He used to take nominations in one thread and then ran a strawpoll with those nominations for a couple of days iirc.
If he actually wanted a legit chart, this anon could do the same, maybe run the strawpoll for longer since it's a chart, like a week, and put it in the op for maximum visibility.

>>16278238
I'm using my vote to minus one from dune, lotr and conan

>>16278686
>reading comprehension
I know you didn't say that. Notice how I did count yours and then said that "hurr why isn't X on the chart" does not count as a vote? I wasn't talking about you.

>>16278685
>Are there any good LotR sized fantasy series out there?
>lotr
>good
Choose one and only one.

>>16278750
I like it therefore it's good.
Simple as.

>>16271954
+1 LOTR
+1 Discworld

And I would like to nominate: the Wheel of Time

>>16271954
+1 Book of the New Sun
+1 Conan

I want to nominate Vorkosigan

>>16278767
+1 Conan as well, forgot to post it

>>16271954
+1 Gormenghast
+1 Broken Sword
+1 Discword
+1 BotNS

>>16272049
Yes they're fucking great and people only hate on it for two reasons:

Contrarians
or
Mad about the show

>>16271954
Biggest meme chart of 2020

>>16271954
>>16278238
+ LOTR
+ Book of the New Sun
+ Prince of Nothing

People are nominating multiple shit at once and their votes are being entirely ignored which is why the list is so poor in variety btw. The whole "1 nomination per post" thing was dumb.

>>16279145
They're good but grum slowly started channelling his inner Robert Jordan with all the needless descriptions in the latter books and it slowly went to shit. The first 2 books are fucking great though.

>>16273658
Unironicaly I come to /sffg/

Can somebody help me find a book again? It's not fantasy but I don't know where else to ask.
Basically it was a book about a guy who has a dream. One day he comes across this street and realizes it looks just like the one in his dream. For whatever reason he decides to buy the apartment that was the apartment in his dream and starts changing it to look that way. If I'd have to try hard to remember, I feel it's set in Britain, maybe even London. I don't remember much else. Help?

>>16279244
> but I don't know where else to ask.
Unironically reddit.
Try r/whatsthatbook and r/tipofmytongue
They're *really* good at finding books.

>>16278238
+ Arcadia

What else by Bakker should I check out after finishing Prince of Nothing and Aspect-Emperor?
Is Neuropath any good or Disciple of the Dog?

>>16278503
Tell the truth, you swore loyalty to Daniel "Onions" Greene and his "booktube" channel.

Any good sci-fi with LGBT characters where it's set far enough in the future that people just don't give a fuck as opposed to it being a political thing? Especially if the main character is a bi/pan guy.

>>16279529
>could be fucking all manner of space babes
>chooses to fuck a smelly, sweaty male of his own species instead
Nothing good can come from somebody who would write that.

>>16279563
>of his own species
>instead
I didn't say either of those things.
>not fucking all kinds of sexy aliens regardless of what kind of genitalia they have

>>16278495
The anti-Conanfag is back, bros. I wish he'd work on securing that sexuality so he wouldn't be so bitter and easily triggered.

>>16277713
>>16278602
Please leave, samefag.

>>16279244
Did you end up finding what the book was, anon? Sounds interesting

>>16279529
Sorry, mate. Being gay is a political agenda now and a substitute for a personality. So you're stuck with fetish erotica or a shitty novella slapped around an erotica scene instead of, "Oh, btw, the MC was gay."

Since House Casterly worshiped The Old Gods before they were deposed by Lan the Cleaver does this mean there might be a Weirwood network under the rock or a face like in the Wall that Sam and Bran saw hidden away somewhere or maybe walled up in secret?

>>16278693
They were just as rigged.

>>16277713
>>16278602
I mean you were the one angry that anons don't like books with female MCs.

>>16279529
Just watch porn if you need your LGBT fix. In books this, like most other fetishes, is handled very poorly.

>>16279853
>LGBT is now a fetish

>>16279853
I wasn't hoping for lewd though. And most gay porn sucks outside of femboy twinks riding toys

>>16279867
Always has been. Or do you mean like people used to call it degeneracy/illness? FYI fetishes can be degenerate/harmful.

>>16271862
Is World Anvil a useful tool for fantasy worldbuilding? Is there any way to download any of the premium World Anvil content, like family trees, etc., without paying for it?

>>16271954
+1 throne of glass

>>16279147
Dude you’re so based for your list.
also I read second apocalypse before solar cycle... am I fucked or can I still enjoy it (because as you know SA ruins fantasy for everyone in a good way)

Are fiction writers incapable of writing comedic moments?

>>16279457
Bump, I came here to ask this, I feel fucking lost. Should I just re read it forever?

>>16279616
Not yet.

>>16279960
Let's get it

>>16279954
>Are fiction writers incapable of writing comedic moments?
No. Are you trolling?

>>16280194
I am the trolling.

I'm almost finished the old mans war series. What should I read next, is it worth checking out any of scalzis other work.

>>16280425
Read Forever War and Starship Troopers next.

>>16280425
Only if you're a bugman.

>>16271954
+1 Book of the New Sun
+1 Stories of your Life and Others

>>16279875
You're mentally ill man

>>16279750
Being homophobic is your substitute for personality.

When did /sffg/ become overrun with reddit? I just want to talk about books.

>>16281130
any particular type of a book you looking for?

>>16271954
+1 The Stars My Destination
+1 Coldfire Trilogy
+1 Throne of glASS
+1 Conan
and i nominate Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner

>>16281130
Then talk about books, you whining faggot. Chances are you're the same dude perpetually crying about the state of the general.

>>16279954
No. Dickens is funny, so is Melville when he wants to be. Twain is extremely deft at humor, though his nonfiction is actually funnier than his fiction. Even Washington Irving is a very amusing writer.

As for fantasy, I've laughed out loud at parts of Malazan Book of the Fallen.

>>16275732
The Thin Executioner by Darren Shan

>>16279954
No

>>16281101
Kys faggot. No one is scared of gays here. You're on the fucking literature board and your misuse of words will not be tolerated.

>>16281163
>those thighs
Got damn. Too bad someone already wifed her.

It's September. What you fags waiting for to be released this month?

>>16281485
Choice of magic 2
Legend of the arch magus 2
Peace talks 2(aka battlegrounds)
Susanne Clarke's new book

>>16281130
>When did /sffg/ become overrun with reddit?
The poltards are the ones who constantly bring up trans and gay issues out of nowhere.

>>16281130
a year and a half

>>16281612
I feel like this is about right. I moved cities and started a full-time job about 2 years ago and stopped frequenting the threads until about 6 months ago and they've been intolerable this whole time. Even aside from the constant /pol/ vs reddit debate, the range of books discussed is much narrower than it used to be, and tends to focus much more on new releases or a handful of universally agreed classics.

>>16281485
Nothing

>>16281485
mine reading list is at least 20 books long as is

Michael Crichton any good?
If so, which should I read?

>>16281519
> Peace talks 2 (aka battlegrounds)
Shit, it's already September? Gotta open up my schedule for this one

>>16281520
>out of nowhere.
lol

Is there any sword and sorcery as polished as high brow literature? preferably something still readable aka not a gothic.

>>16281755
'After the Downfall' is my favorite wizardry novel it even has unicorns.

>>16281770
Seems very interesting, but unfortunately I'm looking for something more of a generic medieval grim dark setting

>>16281737
Some people want to talk about books, and don't care if there are *gasp* gays or women.

>>16281755
>>16281797

The majority who praise and enjoy Sanderson are americans. When you think about it, it really makes sense. Americans produce and consume lowtier entertainment on a daily basis.

Im about to read book 3 of Mistborne, I do not get how anyone thinks his characters are DEEP and well fleshed out. Sure his magic system i top tier. And hes good a writing a decent hype scene. But other than that, so far he really falls flat for me. I think Mistborne like 3/5. Its neither good or bad, just mediocre. Its a good entry for introducing people to the genre. But holy fuck I do not get all the praise he gets, especially when people shill this era as the Sanderson era.

Tell me Sandershills, why do you enjoy him so much?

>>16281937
>>16281937
>>16281937

>>16281025
Why are you so angry?

Don't create a new thread until it's been a few hours since this one was archived.

>>16281917
>crying about Americhads when we're about to migrate to a new thread
lol chinkoids.

>>16281942
yeah bro, do it in an impractical way that's hardly ever been used before because I say so.

>>16281942
>>16282124
I think the problem here is the thread stops getting bumped to first page on new post before it gets archived

>>16282154
The bump limit is 310. After that it just autosages.
You have your catalog view set to last reply instead of bump order, you disgusting newfag.

>>16282162
no my catalog is sorted by bump order

>>16271954
+1 the deed of paksenarrion

>>16271954

Cyberiad by Stanislaw Lem

>>16278658
I enjoyed it, but after catching up I never revisited it, because it never went anywhere and I didn't care to go nowhere faster.
Far as web novels go, it's good. And yes, both halves of that sentence are important.