/lit/ - Literature

>>16236937
Nod real gommunism :DDD

>>16236937
Sure, right after you explain to me why netflix making a show about twerking children, xenoestrogens in food turning us all into pseudotrannies and corporations going all in on BLM isn't real capitalism.

>>16236937
Because marx thought communism will come after the capitalism has fully developed. He warned russians not to use his theory for their own sake or theyll get a despot. He said he wrote Capital for civillised countries and he called russia barbarian.

>>16237140
because that shit is left wing (((they)))

capitalism == right wing

>>16237151
>the part of capitalism I dont like is actually not capitalism
lmao cope harder

>>16237163
how is capitalism left wing?

>>16237171
because capitalism is the socio-economical system that will adopt any ideology if it makes more profit. Capitalism appealed to traditional vales in 50's because it was the norm. Currently moral trend is sjw wokeism, thats why capitalists are jumping on this bandwagon. Capitalism is neither right or left wing.

>>16237183
that doesn't answer my question.

capitalism don't claim such SJW nonsense is capitalism, nor the faggots pushing that claim they're capitalists.

Chavez self proclaimed to be a marxist, as well as pol pot, the soviets, mao, stalin, Castro.
They self proclaimed they were marxists.

>>16237230
Marxism rests on dialectical materialism, which says that history moves by certain stages. Feudal times lead to capitalism and then captalism will lead to communism.
>Chavez self proclaimed to be a marxist, as well as pol pot, the soviets, mao, stalin, Castro.
they are not real marxists because they made revolution happen in societies that were not fully developed capitalist countries, its simple as that. Reading wikipedia on Marx is enough to understand that they were far from marxism.

>>16237264
then why most marxist attempt to try to make their countries socialists even today?

Reminder that every successful communist regime was really National Socialist or at least Strasserist

>>16237290
I don't know, ask them. Also tell them to read Marx.

4channel anons proclaiming themselves better Marxists than the great actual revolutionaries. What a joke.
Now that capitalism has fully developed into what they've been calling its "late stage" for decades, it seems global revolution is now exceedingly unlikely. So, Marx's prophecy was still wrong.

Theory purist armchair psueds are fags whats new OP. Based CHAD revultionaries tried praxis and guess what it often fails or goes to shit. Just be like that sometimes

>>16236937
>>16237151
>>16237171
>>16237230
bro are you in middle school? This is the kinda half-baked cope I came up with to justify my supporting ideology when I was like 12. Like what? Because someone who identified with a political theory and did terrible shit, that theory is down the drain? Is it maybe perhaps possible that they were just using a powerful motivation to get the authority that they wanted over people? There are pitfalls in marxism that probably make at least the specified end goal impossible, but you seriously can't dig deeper than "person bad commie bad"? who showed you this board?

>>16237556
t. butthurt commie

No, I don't think marxist has any real value and should be mocked 100% all the time, like fascism.

No, and genocidal ideologies should be mocked, ALWAYS, EVERYTIME.

Fuck off.
Read a real economic book like the austrian school.

>>16237566
>There are pitfalls in marxism that probably make at least the specified end goal impossible
read that part
Im not saying marxism is the solution. Its an ideology like many others, striving for impossible ends of paradise that no means as they exist will ever produce. But the fact that solutions have been attempted might indicate a problem, whether it exists in the society we live in or within ourselves. If you think the ever expanding hyper-capitalism we have today will improve our lives into infinity, than you haven't taken a serious look down the road we're on.

sorry for saying ur a middle schooler i jus thought it would be kinda kek

>>16237743
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTwiEGoaAI4

>>16237751
knew it was coming

>>16237786
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuYASwzzEGM

Want me to post now more serious intelectuals?

>>16236937
It's communism, but it's Marxist-Leninist, Maoist, Jucheist, ect. When they say it isn't really communism what they actually mean is that it isn't their strand of communism.

>>16237800
this dont make no got dam sense but im just gonna end by saying that you're generally wasting your time with political theory unless you can somehow reflect some of its essential goodness into your personal life. Just as you've recognized that many communist leaders had something much different than the prosperity of masses in mind, you should additionally recognize that hardly anyone who strives so greatly to convince you of any idealistic group of their own truly and honestly wants the best for you.

“But, wherever a man goes, men will pursue and paw him with their dirty institutions, and, if they can, constrain him to belong to their desperate odd-fellow society. It is true, I might have resisted forcibly with more or less effect, might have run "amok" against society; but I preferred that society should run "amok" against me, it being the desperate party.” -Thoreau

>>16237566
>austrian school
>real economic
Pfffft HAHAHAHA, The only valid economic theories are Neoclassical and the only heterdox economic theory that is valid is post keynesian. Austrian economics is just as ridiculous as Marxian economics. Austrians don't even use explicit models bro. They're practically allergic to mathematics and statistics. Their's a reason most economics think it's retarded bro, it's fucking stupid. The fact that you claimed Austrian economics to be "real" makes me think you're trolling. I can't imagine thinking a school of economics that rejects econometrics as "real".

>>16238010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRW2SFr2-5Q

>>16238010
I meant New Keynesian not Post Keynesian, I apologize.

>>16238029
Just want to clarify that New Keynesian isn't a heterdox economic theory.

>>16238028
holy shit I knew you were a god damn minority i fucking knew it

>>16238044
>>16238029
>>16238046
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Hwx37BsTg

>>16238028
Don't speak that language, but ancaps are absolutely retarded. The austrian school of economics is fucking retarded.

>>16238050
you're a lefty povertymaker (zurdito empobrecedor).

>>16238057
I'm not a Marxist, but I'm not a dumbfuck ancap who doesn't understand market failure either.

>>16238065
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6EL4EaMGBQ

suck my dick dude (not an argentinian negro).

>>16238085
I don't understand your language. Just want to know your political leaning is absolutely ridiculous and Utopian like. It's isn't viable at all and only retards who don't understand economics hold it.

>>16238105
suck my dick zurdito empobrecedor.

>>16238028

Jesús mio, Argentinians are absolute idiots. What I hate is that they're so prideful. Also this guy is crazy. His understanding of economics are elementary.

>>16238116
>Keynes
>Disastrous policy
>Was literally the main monetary policy during the golden age of capitalism
Oh my god Ancaps are literally delusional.

>>16238157
>>16238162
t. 4chan retards that think they know more about economics than a real economist with papers in journals of economics

>>16238179
>thinks an econ degree is worth shit
>thinks an argentinian econ degree is worth shit

el em ah oh

>>16238179
Oh my god, are you serious? Most economists reject Austrian's school of economics. Austrian's school of economics is a heterdox school i.e most economists don't follow it. What you're doing is equivalent to a marxist calling people retarded for disagreeing with marxist economic thought because marx was an economist. You're unironically delusional bro.

>>16238197
>>16238211
keynesian economics is plebian npc shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOMksnSaAJ4

none of you idiots can even deconstruct Kant’s “100 Taler” argument yet you think you deserve to talk about taxation and such. fucking idiots

>>16238242
>Thomas Sowell
>Not a single Noble Prize on economics
Pfffft, please read an actual economist like Paul Krugman, oh and when I say read I mean actually read don't just watch a youtube video and get all your ideas on economics from it. Here's a starting article on the failure of the Chicago school https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/02/larry-kudlow-and-the-failure-of-the-chicago-school/

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html

Also here's the outcomes of Chile a country that implemented Chicago School policies you know the beliefs Thomas Sowell holds.

ttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/oecd-says-chile-has-widest-inequality-gap/

Chicago school has never succeeded in practice, this is why I hate people who hold these dumb fuck economic beliefs.

>>16238368
>highest HDI in latinoamerica
wow, such failure.

amazing.

wtf, free market BTFO.
Now I want to live in argentina and venezuela and cuba.

wtf, I love starvation.

>>16238385
>The widest inequality gap of an OECD county
Yes that's failure, it seems that chicago school policies when implemented lead to wealth gaps. Also not defending socialist principles so don't know why you would bring up Venezuela and Argentina and Cuba. Really weird what aboutism considering I said earlier in this thread that socialism is stupid. Admit it, your
beliefs don't work when implemented, they are delusional like socialism.

>>16238410
dunno bro, Chile had the biggest economic growth because of pinochet.

Feel free to post a better spic country now.

>>16238416
>Chile had the biggest economic growth
Who cares if only the richest get it, the USSR had great economic growth and was able to industrilize some shit hole into a global power with a powerful economy but only Stalin and his party got benefited so what the fuck is your point? You guys sound like fucking communists when you talk, except instead of shilling communism you guys shill some dumb fuck form of capitalism. Also are you going to tell me you think pinochet was good? Don't tell me you're going to shill for a dictator, you guys are like the capitalist version of marxist-leninists shilling for stalin.

>>16238438
feel free to point a spic country with higher HDI.

The love of power like in politics destroys a person's trust. They need that trust to keep connection with their fellow man and in order to keep it the transcendence of passion should be handled with caution. We may lose that trust, because the feeling is not mutual and then we may never love again. When the obsession over control is taken beyond its limits, the disposition to feel, do or say is lost completely because authority does not love us in return.

>>16238460
>It has the highest HDI therefore the wealth gap is justifiable
Dude are you high? Argentina's HDI is only off by .017 with a way lower inequality gap. You literally have no argument here, the policies have failed. Argentina is a developed country but when compared to other developed countries it's shit. You're literally resting on HDI as if that saves you. When compared to countries with similar HDI, Argentina's wealth inequality is glaring. Let me emphasize this, the policies have failed. You're literally giving me a commie argument right now by the way, the USSR was bad? Well the USSR increased HDI by industrializing rapidly, the USSR did give Russia a higher HDI after all. You're literally as delusional as commies bro.

>>16238518
wealth gap is the side effect of personal diferences and personal choices, you fucking retard nigger commie.

do u think is the fault of the system your shitty college marxist professor teaching chicano transexual queer studies should make the same as messi?

are u so mentally challenged that can't see jeff bezos has diferent responsabilities than a dumb welfare negro?

are u mentally retarded?

>>16238518
Argentina is a piece of shit, nigger.

kys

3/4 of the population survives because of welfare.

>>16238518
>retarded gringo who can't speak the language tells me chile is worse than argentina
lmao.

kek

>>16238527
>He still thinks I'm a communis
Ok bro, you're clearly delusional. Quick question do you think the wealth gaps under monarchy where caused by personal choices? Do you honestly believe all wealth inequality is due to personal choice? Do you really believe this? Do you unironically have a child's view of the world? You think people choose to be poor? How do explain the major wealth inequality other then policy? Netherlands has a lower wealth inequality then America, how else do you describe this other then different policy? Also you're a fucking latino, you're basically just a lighter nigger.

>>16238552
>Argentina's HDI is only off by .017 with a way lower inequality gap.
Where did I say Chile is worse then Argentina here? I'm making purely factual claims, Argentina has a lower inequality gap while having .017 less on the HDI scale. If you don't like what I said then you don't like the truth. Chile is a shithole either way so....
>>16238536
Literally don't care

>>16238518
>>16238558
>>16238567
>If I use whataboutism I won

you should had used a better example retard.
Argentina is a failed state.

and is funny you try to talk about countries you don't even speak the language.

gringo marica.

>I'm not a commie
anyone who brings argentina as anything more than a failed commie state, is a commie.

>chile is a shithole
compare poverty rates, child hunger rates, income.

wow, clearly argentina should be our goal and not chile.
kys

pic related, your dream of low GINI.

>>16238567
now compare this to a random santiago street.

wow, clearly we should be more like buenos aires and not more like santiago.

>>16238573
>>If I use whataboutism I won
You're literally the one who brought up other Latino countries how am I whatabouting here? You're the one who kept telling me to bring up a latino country (because you ran out of arguments) with a better HDI, I can't but the next closest example is Argentina, which has 0.017 less on the HDI scale but with less wealth inequality this is the truth.
>are u so mentally challenged that can't see jeff bezos has diferent responsabilities than a dumb welfare negro?
Argentina is a failled commie state true, but Chile is a failed capitalist state lol. The entirety of south america is shit.
>compare poverty rates, child hunger rates, income.
>wow, clearly argentina should be our goal and not chile.
>kys
>Argentina is bad therefore Chile is good no matter what
Oh my god, is your reading comprehension shot? No where did I claim Argentina should be Chile's goal, I didn't claim Argentina was better then Chile either. You're unironically mentally ill, whenever anyone brings up anything wrong with your shit hole country you resort to saying well the other countries are worse, and then you claim I'm whataboutising. Let me tell you something you chilean subhuman, you're country is fucking shit and will never be a first world country because you're entire race is genetically inferior.

>>16238610
Do u realize argentina was the richest country on the planet on 1850?

Argentina was a top 5-7 HDI country on WWII.

>>16238614
>argentina was the richest country on the planet on 1850?
Dude, I honest to god don't care about Argentina my dude. I actually don't care about the retarded socialist shit they did. I just find it funny that whenever someone points out that your country is shit and has some issues with wealth inequality you respond by saying well the other latino countries are shittier. That isn't a fucking response. You can't justify the problems with your country by pointing at worse countries and saying but we're better then them.

>>16238634
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_economic_freedom

you economic freedom is a good indicator of how shitty your nation is.

>>16236937
>Explain to me why they aren't real communism/marxism/socialism?

Lets have a look at the slogans of the "communist" party of the Soviet Union..

>"Communism in 20 years" was a slogan put forth by Nikita Khrushchev at the 22nd Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1961.
>In his speech, Khrushchev promised that communism will be built "in the main" by 1980.[1] His phrase "The current generation of Soviet people will live under communism" was the final phrase of the new Program of the CPSU adopted at the congress.
>The latter political slogan is attributed to Kremlin speechwriter Elizar Kuskov, who allegedly quipped "this slogan will survive centuries".[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_in_20_years

That obviously reads to me as communism doesn't exist yet, even in the soviet union

>>16238638
>Sweden and Norway are shittier then Chile, Taiwan, and the United Arab Emirates
Are you sure that's a good indicator?

>>16238656
not perfect, but clearly shitholes are at the bottom while the less shitholes are at the top.

So clearly is better to have more economic freedom.

>>16238614
>Argentina was a top 5-7 HDI country on WWII.
You got something very badly wrong here, south america was totally assfucked without lube by the great depression, south american economies were raw resource extraction based and the demand fell to zero

>>16238661
Ok bro whatever you say I guess, I'm not even arguing against economic freedom but sure.

>>16238663
>>16238664
argentina is a classic textbook example of the end result of marxist economics.

why are both communists and capitalists such coping little materialist cucks. just kys and stop shitting up the board.

>>16238711
according to Marxist dogma of Dialectical Materialism the communist victory is inevitable

Peron was a self-proclaimed fascist. Pol Pot was a neoludite.
Chavez was a "social democrat" who spent everything on gibs while not investing in means of production.
African dictatorships are African dictatorships.
Gulags were for the ones who opposed the process of socialism
ELN and FARC are guerrilla groups who finance themselves through extortion and drug dealings.
Famines were due to bad decisions and material conditions, and would have happened in other economic systems if the same decisions were made.

>>16238790
Chavez wasn't a social democrat he was part of the socialist party, alligned himself with marxist-leninst governments. He was a democratic socialist not a social democrat.

>>16236937
Might want to read the historiography of “the holodomor” as a nationalist invention. As using that word reduces the efficacy of your bait by making you look like a Nazi fuck instead of an ignorant worker needing education. Try “Soviet famine,” instead.

>>16238834
>dude, that's false, read my propaganda book
fuck off commie.

>>16238834
Fuck off Red Fascist

>>16238834
>>16238844
How about we call it "one of Stalin's genocides"? Would that be a good compromise?

>>16238651
>His phrase "The current generation of Soviet people will live under communism" was the final phrase of the new Program of the CPSU adopted at the congress.
>The latter political slogan is attributed to Kremlin speechwriter Elizar Kuskov, who allegedly quipped "this slogan will survive centuries"
how did he get away with it?

>>16238812
Did he socialized the entirety of the economy?
No, he focused on gibs to keep the population on his side, and neglected industrial production.

>>16239141
I mean I guess he wasn't able to nationalize all industry but I don't know if this was because he didn't want to or because he couldn't.

>>16237140
It is real capitalism, capitalism is as cringe as communism
Now answer OP’s question

>>16238573
>twitter
>discord
>/vg/
Woah Cristian, maybe you should leave!
By the way you haven't addressed most of that guy's points. You sure are dumb! Or maybe just dishonest.

>>16236937
All of those things are real communism, worked and are based, except the Mao famines and Holodomor which are memes.

>>16237302
factually incorrect

>>16236937
Peronismo was and is a fascist nationalist movement unrelated to marxism.
T. Argentino

>>16238862
>only blaming Stalin
Yeah actually try reading about the famine in peer reviewed historical journals.

>>16241514
>retard thinks kitchnerismo is fascism
kek

chupame el pito boludo.

>>16237140
Capitalism is fucked up. Netflix tried to corner the market on socially acceptable cunny (If you criticize you're a sexist!). Xenoestrogens in food is a textbook example of a negative externality. Corporations backing BLM is a bit more complicated but the reasons corporations virtue signal can be distilled to cheap, easy advertising, and the fact that a heavily racialized political atmosphere keeps the proles fighting each other instead of banding together and fighting back in the class war. Now answer OP's question you evasive twat.

>>16237566
>Read a real economic book like the austrian school.
Insufferably gay response, possibly the gayest thing I've ever seen in my life.