/lit/ - Literature

>>16226791
It sounds like schizoposting

Yeah it's pretty good. At the least it's three very interesting biographies but the concepts of being in time, against time, or above time can be useful in their own right to understanding politics and history. I don't think anyone can truly understand Hitler without this book.

>>16226975
thanks I will check it out then

>>16226975
>I don't think anyone can truly understand Hitler without this book.
tl;dr?

>>16227126
To put it simplistically, Hitler was a mix of Akhnaton and Genghis Khan in that he had very golden age ideals but understood that golden age methods could not be utilized to bring them about in the current dark age. Genghis Khan is "in time" in that he uses dark age methods for dark age ends, Akhnaton is "above time" because he's mentally from a different and better era, and Hitler is "against time" because he actively fought against the current dark age in an effort to bring about a new golden age.

>>16227250
Fucking retarded

>>16227250
Fucking based

I wish it wasn't so hard to find copies of Devi's work.

>>16227491
Look on second and third tier bookseller websites instead of Amazon. You would be surprised by what you can purchase from Barnes & Noble for instance.

>>16227491
There's a website that hosts the Lightning and the Sun in plaintext. I just copied and pasted it to make my own epub.

>>16226936
Yeah but it's true though

>>16227250

Wtf? If Hitler won, he would have brought on a new dark age for the whole world, Philip K. Dick even wrote a short story of novel about an alternate future where the Nazis won and the world depicted if of a dark age.

>>16228498
the current age seems more like a dark age to be honest

>>16228498
You have the Hitler of popular conception in your mind and not the high minded man who was forced by the age to bad things which actually existed. Savitri Devi goes to great lengths arguing this, looking through his personal writings and history but even if you look at small details of his life like his vegetarianism and likely willingness to impose vegetarianism on Germany if there wasn't a war to fight, you can see he's not the simple minded butcher that he's commonly portrayed as by his enemies.

The guy really tried his best to avoid war with the west so he could focus on the true enemy, Bolshevik Russia. I don't think any reasonable person who is mildly informed could argue that a Nazi Germany would have been worse than what we in fact did get with communism.

>>16228498
>implying he didn't secretly win by flying into Antarctica in a U.F.O

>>16227604

That's good and all, but certain ones simply aren't being printed, as far as I can tell. For instance, Gold in the Furnace is out of print since 2006, and I cannot find a copy for a decent price.

>>16227250
Pretty cool ideas, not original but it's how they're presented that give them a unique insight.

The real question is:

Savitri Devi or Miguel Serrano?S

>>16228677
heckin based.
>not reading both
honestly though I've read Serrano way more. Dream sequence Chads unite

>>16228573
>I don't think any reasonable person who is mildly informed could argue that a Nazi Germany would have been worse than

>>16227250
>>16227254
>>16227273
Retardly based

>>16228677

How is Serrano?

>>16229190
He's good, brought him a coffee yesterday when he called and didn't have any left.

>>16228498
>where nazis won and the world depicted is of a dark age
uh, i saw Man in the High Castle show, and that was NOT a dark age.
the cities were CLEAN, no graffiti, little to no crime, didn't have liberals marching everywhere destroying things or screeching in people's faces.
how is that a "dark age" in your mind?

>>16229201
>personally knows the grand master
Holy based. Post more rare Serrano pics pls I'm collecting them

>>16229228
Here he is with Hesse, and also personally corresponded with Jung and of course collected the letters between Jung and Hesse.

>>16229228
Here he is with the Queen.

>>16229259
>>16229295

Thanks Anon, love the pictures. Sometimes I still miss our communities on that other chan site that's closed now. We had good discussions of Serrano's works. Amonger other parallel topics.

>>16229228
Here he is with Leon Degrelle.

>>16229228
Here he is with the Dalai Lama.

>>16229305
I never regularly frequented there, but on the occasion I did it always seemed comfy because of how much smaller and slower it was.

>>16228677
Who is he?

Yes it's great. You'd feel stronger in spirit after finishing it.

>>16226791
good shit

>>16228677
two completely different styles that arent in the samr ealm. Serrano was a poet, Devi was more like a novelist/biographer

What would happen if your girl found out that you read Savitri and Serrano? Assuming she knows about them and what they're about.

>>16230077
Any girl who hasn't read The Golden Thread isn't worth marrying.

No

Why tho

Holy based, I wish I could still read

>>16230077
feminism is worse

>>16228498
>Philip K. Dick even wrote a short story of novel about an alternate future where the Nazis won
You read High Castle wrong. The alternate future was a falsehood - a sham. We brought the dystopian future on ourselves. Please read the last several pages again.

>>16230077
I don't get what the issue is. My gf is as feminist as they come and I just openly tell her about any fascist opinions I have.
Honestly it's actually easier to just front up and openly say this shit, and if you're on a first date or something and you don't want to explicitly label it, which is smart, then I've found the more liberal women actually like it when you just stick to your guns with your mean totalitarian ideas. I've honestly had so much more success when the discussions get political by just saying what I actually think. Women just love whatever you think as long as you keep the conversation fun.

>>16232632
Huh, really? That's nice to hear, thanks brother

>>16226975
>the concepts of being in time, against time, or above time
Anon, have you ever heard about someone named Heidegger?

>>16226791
i can't find a copy of Serrano's "Golden Thread" in english. Should i just buy the spanish version and practice my spanish?

Just read Evola

>>16233029
Not that type of "temporality", Devi seems to mean it in a more historical sense.

>>16233029
Idiot

>>16227250
Take meds

>>16233615
Take soi

>>16233615
Dilate

>>16227250
so fucking epic, keep coping kikes. as if fighting against time itself isn't an epic concept

>>16227604
yeah and it's even worse for us uk cucks cause at least yous have barnes and noble. plus im a teenager so i can't buy from places like counter-currents without getting fucked by parents seeing it in the mail (and being put on a list)

>>16228677
i'd prefer devi honestly but serrano seems great too

>>16227126
Hitler was literally Vishnu.

>>16230077
yeah it would be bad lol, i'd just say she's an indian hindu vegetarian activist, that's pretty solid optics like.

>>16234671
I really don't understand what you're saying. Do you think in explaining what she's saying that I'm taking a position on the matter or opposed to it?

>>16226791
I would say yes she's absolutely worth reading,her analysis of the biographies of the three men, along with the swastika is feckin phenomenal. She was a beautiful woman who fought for the right cause, we should all fight against Time, fight against the eternal sway of decadence, degeneration and decay. We stand for Parmenidean Being over Heraclitean flux and Becoming.

HOWEVER, the Satanist shit fucks me up. There are definitely some v cringe satanist elements in the Esoteric Hitlerlism stuff, which I'm not on board with at all. Idk if the other devi-stans can explain this or whatever, but fuck the satanism stuff.

Considering the jewish pedofiles who run the world are satanists it's pretty cringe for types like serrano to be promoting that shit. Even worse with types like Evola who openly praise literal satanist spergs like Aleister Crowley, who was obviously counter-tradition and a literal M15 spy who infiltrated fascist groups.

But ye Devi's great.

>>16234679
You really need to stop being such a sperg.

>>16234723
no i liked your post i was saying keep coping to the jews in the thread who were posting against her

>>16234732
>We stand for Parmenidean Being over Heraclitean flux and Becoming.
Somewhat a misunderstanding of what Heraclitus believed anon. I mean I don't have to explain to you Logos.

>>16228498
>Philip K. Dick even wrote a short story of novel about an alternate future where the Nazis won and the world depicted if of a dark age.
well that settles it.

>>16234732
And yeah I gotta agree with the satanist shit, though I think in Serrano's case he thought Satan was real as the forces of Evil and the Night in contrast to Jesus Christ being its antithesis, but just took a Gnostic interpretation of the Bible. Is he more extreme than this in satanism? Thoughts?

>>16234742
Heraclitus nailed it with his ontological monism, asserting that reality is fundamentally reducible to a single underlying metaphysical law, that being LOGOS. For that he is spot-on, and in many ways he describes material life quite well. As Aristotle in his Physics describes material reality as being defined by movement and teleology, Heraclitus is correct. Our material lives are, at least superficially and subjectively defined by flux.

/however/, Heraclitus was only analyzing the world of maya, the illusory consciousness of matter. He misses that the true LOGOS, the real world is that of the metaphysical law of Being. The Absolute laws of Mathematics and Geometry and the most real parts of the universe. For that Heraclitus was fundamentally wrong. That is what Hitler is fighting for when he asserted the organic supremacy of the German Nation and its palingenesis. The Dharma, the LOGOS, etc is all the eternal rule of the absolute. This is what we're fighting for against Heraclitean decay.

Think of it in the way the Satanist / Jewish pedofiles promote Kronos all the time, even imitating Goya's painting of Saturn Devouring his Son. They identify with not only the eating of children (as pedofiles speak of "edible children"), they also relate to the constant decay and transient rootlessness that Kronos represents. As Kronos, leader of the Titans represents drought and harvest, he is typically depicted with the scythe, hence where we derive the modern Grim Reaper with his scythe from.

This is reflected in similar P-I-E (Proto Indo European) mythology. In Indian mythology the asura, particularly the malevolent Danavas, are led by Vitra. Vitra is a dragon serpent associated with drought and water. Similarly Jörmungandr in Norse mythology (commonly represented in the Ouroboros symbol celebrated by satanists) is a foul sea serpent who leads these beastly creatures of drought and decay. This is also reflected in Irish mythology with the Fomorians.

In all these cases these beastly creatures who represent the eternal Becoming (and so drought, decay, degeneration, etc) are defeated by the affirmative eternal Being (and so truth, beauty, light, etc). Zeus slays Typhon and Cronos. Indra slays vitra. Thor slays Jörmungandr. And so the Aryan battle continues. Hitler was sent to battle the Judeo-world order. His spirit is not dead and what he was sent to be done will be done one day.
TL;DR: Heraclitus right about LOGOS, wrong about what it is (Parmindies is better). And Hitler just represents the battle of light against that of darkness which is represented in aryan mythology.

>>16234679
You must be over 18 to post here you acne ridden autist

>>16234679
This explains everything

>>16234751
I haven't read Serrano in-depth so I'm unsure but my understanding was that he was something of a Luciferian and had a book explaining his Gnostic Aryan understanding of Christ. Which is better than Crowley for sure but still highly questionable. I've heard of a Spanish traditional festival where they mourn the story of Lucifer, they express their sorrow over how badly God's favorite angel fell from grace. That sort of thing doesn't sound all that bad, but if there's any unironic Satanism I'm strongly against it. Even the hatred of Christianity of Devi is questionable, you can't hate Christ and love Europe, it's as simple as that I'm afraid. I'm not a Christian but I respect the role Christ has played at the center of Aryan history of about 2,000 years. You have to fully accept the magnificence of the Sistine Chapel, the Last Supper, Gothic cathedrals, Dante's Divine Comedy, Beethoven's 9th, Bach's Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Shakespeare, etc

>>16234957
>>16234751
Great podcast on Serrano https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pzKMIUbIwQ

>>16234957
>>16234751
Wrong one here >>16234964 soz, meant this one : https://youtu.be/DUvS2ceXFFU

>>16234741
Do you actually think everyone who disagrees with her is a jew?

>>16234679
just download a pdf for fuck's sakes. Do you really need to fetishize your esoteric Hitlerism books

>>16234679
Deradicalize yourself before you ruin your life anon

>>16234679
Enjoy your ban faggot

>>16235013
> doesn't realize you can be 19 (which would mean you're still a teenager and eligible for this board)
christ who dropped you as a child?

>>16235094
>literally admitting living with your parents

>>16234979
there is nothing radical about not wanting your race to go extinct

>>16235125
Not him but at 19 that's pretty normal.

why is it so hard to find Serrano's books (or Deva's for that matter)? They're either completely out of stock or ridiculously expensive (e.g. $1080 for a 64 page book)

>>16237148

It sucks. Counter-Currents, Ostara, Arktos, etc. Somebody needs to start printing these fuckers.

The only prints of Gold in the Furnace I can find are the 2006 Black Sun printings, and they vary from $150 to $400. Originals? Near as I can tell, they don't even exist anymore.

Was Hitler initiated into occultism by Dietrich Eckhart?

>>16226791
t.

>>16234969
Yes.

>>16236157
Based defense force for me

>>16226791
I'm just going to say outright 2 things cause I can see a lot of ppl in the thread talking about buying the book:

1) If you want to read it, just read the ebook / pdf. It's easily accessible online and in perfectly good quality. If you buy it you'll either end up getting scammed or put on a list. Even Counter-Currents, whom I respect a lot, are objectively monitored by the ADL. You should be EXTREMELY careful with purchasing or even interacting with these sites. It's a shame for the great men who run them. They don't deserve this but I'm afraid the working man has to take these precautions. You could easily be doxxed and ruin your job if the ADL catch you. And its only going to get worse in the future, so even if you purchased one year's ago try could track you down. Don't go schizo mode over this just beat in mind the risk. Be CAREFUL.

2( If you're going to buy or just read online for Christ sake just don't read the William Pierce version whatever you do. Pierce was a glownigger anyway but regardless of that it's just a horrific version. It's 200 pages when L&tS should be about 500, and it has typos and errors. Just make sure you aren't reading it, waste of your time. ESPECIALLY, if you're buying it.


Anyone have any other good NatSoc / Esoteric Hitlerist lit? Yockey is essential reading too obvs.

>>16229190
Magical realism + Esoteric Hitlerism

>>16238435
How was Pierce a glownigga?

>>16238444
> writes a book all about a fucking race war and terrorism
> galvanizing autistic spergs and feds
> doesn't help us in any conceivable way
> alienates normies (and yes normies exist they're the common man)
> plays into all the bugaboo myths about us
Whether he was a glownigger or not it doesn't really matter. He played into everything they would want. I don't really care whether he was a genuine enemy or just a retard, he's not our friend.
>

>>16238469
Eh, you have to remember a lot of that was due to it being a different time, he saw how cucked the john birch society was and the only people talking about these type of things were people like Rockwell. I really liked Fame of a Dead Man's Deeds and I think he explains himself pretty well.

>>16238435
what if you're unemployed but have the money to afford these books? would it be okay to buy the books then?
i prefer having physical copies if possible.

>>16226791

Didn't Goodrick-Clarke write a good book about her? It's a good read even if a tad academic, but again the guy did a good job with Dark Sun. Always a sombering read, there's this puzzling feeling of wrongness in reading Esoteric Nazism. Doesn't help that the authors were mostly colossal failures in life (didn't Devi end up as a crazy cat lady?).

>>16238928
Serrano was an ambassador.

Can someone please explain Serrano's weltanschauung and Esoteric Hitlerism to me?

>>16239001

And got thrown out by both Marxists and Pinochet as he was a political enemy to the first and a useless bum to the second.

>>16239413
Ok? You don't become an ambassador being a collosal failure.

>>16238533
It being a different time doesn't justify total spergery and fedposting. Yockey and Devi didn't fedpost and they were writing before him. Plenty of authors wrote about white interest when no one else was in a reasonable and intelligent way. Jared Taylor has been standing up for whites since the 80s and he's never let a single mistake drop out of his mouth.
>>16238589
> unemployed
> unfortunately prefers physical copies
Yeah I'm the same lol, where are you getting the money tho bro? I used to be like you up until recently but then I joined a small book club with two other people and we're reading pdfs there. It forced me to get into pdfs which has helped a lot. I prefer physical as well but especially of you're unemployed don't be wasting the only money you have on books you don't even know if you'll love. It should be good wagey motivation, go out and work so you can eventually by some Serrano or Devi or Yockey.

>>16228573
>The guy really tried his best to avoid war with the west so he could focus on the true enemy, Bolshevik Russia.
Literally made a non-aggression pact with Russia so he could focus solely on the western European nations and avoid fighting a war on two fronts.
Google "Molotov Ribbentrop Non Aggression Pact"

>>16234886
I have enjoyed your mythologising, that is an elucidation of history by the religious truths of mythology, and I have always enjoyed those story's since a child, but I think you are missing to put it plainly what Nietzsche would call percepticalism. Is not all symbol, as Carlyle said, for the divine idea. To put it simply that Heraclitus conception of logos though mythologically could be interpreted as unbound and undefined thoroughly a-moral universality, this seems to me as a complete reduction of his philosophy. It's not as if he is some championer of chaos or destruction, but rather recognising the fundamental foregrounding of reality which is necessarily spiritually, and not a material flux, as it is both wrong to characterise either Parmenides or Heraclitus as a specifically materialist philosophy. He champions Virtue in it, does he not? That the invisible structure is "greater than the visible".

>>16234957
Yeah I don't understand why Devi disliked Christianity, I mean she seems like the type of person that would actually love it.

>>16234967
>that intro
>"Hyperbreum Radio"
>that symbol
I like Serrano but it seems everybody that follows his esotericism is a bit too much of a larper for his own individual good. Still, will listen and hope they have some interesting things to say on Serrano.

>>16239132
You'll only understand him if you have a basis in Western thought and history, and then have read Jung.

>>16234695
*is

>>16240596
Because it erases national, racial and cultural identity while elevating man above all else. It promotes race mixing by not assigning it as a negative thing. It also, obviously, stems from Judaism which she hated. She seemed to hold a grudge against the early Jews/Muslims/Christians for doing so much damage to original european cultural practices, and the genocide of pagans which has been virtually removed from our history.

In the modern context she seems a bit utopian.

>>16240629
They can never get the face right.

>>16240656
>Because it erases national, racial and cultural identity
Historically false, as well as religiously disingenuous and a shallow critique.

>while elevating man above all else
This critique I can understand, but at the same time it seems to be a critique without weighing in what insights it does provide on man, and how putting him in such a way as many interpret it above other creatures is obviously not central to Christianity as for example redemption, "repentance is the grand Christian act" said Carlyle.

>>16240495
Yes he made that agreement to bide time. If Germany could take much of the sudetenland, liebenstraum and France then they could mount a possible Aryan defense against the Bolshevik Menace. But no Churchill - because of the Focus group - insisted on going to war with Germany. The UK consistently rejected every peace offering Hitler made and actually it took Churchill bombing German cities about 8 times till they even retaliated with the blitz.

Read Hitler's Table Talk or his second book. He's clearly most concerned about the Bolsheviks as opposed to the West. If anything he hardly mentions Jews all that much - and never the holocaust interestingly enough

>>16234967
Yeah pretty good video as an intro to Serrano, I'm gonna buy Nos in the next order.

>>16240674
>Historically false, as well as religiously disingenuous and a shallow critique.
How can you say this? Sure you are right about it historically, but that no longer matters.

>>16240757
>but that no longer matters.
And why is that? This is the part that in most cases pagans seem to fall short of an answer and into mere preference.

But as far as I have seen Devi's critique, as anons have portrayed it, it is a very shallow one. For example "it places man as above animals and therefore it is entirely uncompassionate and evil" and so on, it's just a disingenuous extrapolation. It could only serve as a small statement within a critique yet small contextual things like this seem to endlessly serve as a main argument.

>>16240807
>it places man as above animals and therefore it is entirely uncompassionate and evil
not the guy you're arguing with, but where's the lie though? Christianity posits man as apart from animals, seems like that's what lead us to the present situation of "human rights" as opposed to animal rights, whereas other systems that make no such distinction would never have led to such a dichotomy becoming established.

>>16240829
But don't you see this is such a miniscule thing, vegetarianism and animal rights were also born out of Christendom, it most certainly did not come out of Pythagoreanism though for the ancient Greek world there was that. It is also such a disingenuous critique, the entire religion stands against sin.

>Are not five sparrows sold for two pence? Yet not one of them is overlooked by God.

>>16240877
Vegetarianism and animal rights are certainly not exclusive to Christendom.

>>16240888
I literally said that in the post that you're replying too, Pythagoreans were vegetarians out of a moral reasoning, Plato inherited the necessity of vegetarianism and care for animals only to a degree. However Plato and Aristotle also placed humans above animals in a more definite way, though still believing in kindness and so forth. The apparent uniqueness to Christianity as putting man above animal, is not unique at all, where rather it places the utmost care for animals, more so than Plato and Aristotle, and at least in its articulation of supreme compassion and self sacrifice more so than Pythagoreanism. And it might be considered something sad, as Wagner lamented, that Christianity did not adopt Vegetarianism as a practice.

>>16241050
Good post Anon, I don't necessarily disagree with you.

>>16241111
Thanks anon, nice quads too. I've enjoyed talking.

>>16240656
>It also, obviously, stems from Judaism which she hated.
I think it's a modern stupidity to conceive of Christianity as some sort of branch of Judaism rather than a rebellion or reactionary movement against Judaism. They same sort of people who say this will also have a liberal use of "Christcuck" in their vocabulary so you can know they're not a very impressive thinker.

Ok im new to this
Give me essential devi & serrano core

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

>>16241564
Devi - Lightning & the Sun
Serrano - Golden Thread

>>16241564
Read Jung first and have foundations in Greek philosophy, various religions, the history of Christian art and thought, and finally Jung.

bump.

>>16241569
Psychoanalysts are Jewish charlatans. You're in the wrong thread for that.

>>16241744
Anon, I think you're in the wrong thread to pretend you know anything about Serrano. His entire esotericism was based on people like Jung and Hesse both of whom he knew personally and his first work was publishing their correspondence. You're also obviously not familiar with Jung, because you'd know he's about as far from a "jewish science" as possible. Jung was a mystic, and he wrote the intro to one of Serrano's early works, I believe the Queen of Sheba. Serrano took all of Jung's mysticism, in a real metaphysical and mystical framework, synchronicity for example is so central to him, the Archetypes are taken as Gods. Like when Jung wrote the essay that Hitler was the personification of the Wotan archetype, a resurgence of the racial memory of the Germans.

>>16234698
If you have to hide how you really feel from a partner the relationship isn't worth having. You should just be openly honest about your views, there's no need for optics when it comes to personal relationships like that. Either she likes you for who you are or she leaves.

bump

>>16241786

Good jungs then? I already want the red book in a proper coloured pictures tome but that stuff dont come cheap.

>>16242107
Yes, but where can I find a qt fash/natsoc gf?

>>16240588
>>16240588
Yeah you make some fair points sir. As in picrelated, I was probably unfair in characterizing Heraclitus as a pure material monist and a philosopher of degeneration. Insofar as a simplified his entire system to that I regret that and take it back.


/however/, this:
> It's not as if he is some championer of chaos or destruction, but rather recognising the fundamental foregrounding of reality which is necessarily spiritually, and not a material flux
is inherently problematic. For all Heraclitus and Process Philosophy's pros (particularly the beautiful poetry in the Fragments), there is a fundamental relativism at the heart this way of thinking. If everything - whether spiritually or materially - is reducible to flux then we have fallen into incoherence. The statement itself is an obvious paradox, as is virtually all forms of metaphysical relativism. You cannot deny the law of identity, law of non-contradiction, that a2 + b2 = c2 (and that that is eternally true), etc. It's that simple. This is the problem with Heraclitus and that sort of Nietzschean Relativism. You need to affirm Eternal Metaphysical Laws and Metaphysical Realism, otherwise it's just total incoherence as I said.

In terms of that aspect of Heraclitus' thought (along with Nietzsche and other Vitalists like Klages) I'll stand by my initial cautionary attitude.

>>16240588
Also forgot to say, very very nice dubs ;)

No, although I loved pic related, so no doubt I’d enjoy the rest of her work.

>>16242107
>there's no need for optics when it comes to personal relationships like that. Either she likes you for who you are or she leaves.
*hand rubbing intensifies*
"don't worry goy, just tell your gf all your views, it''ll work out great! and if she doesn't like it and it ruins the relationship...just become mgtow!"

Nice try Shlomo / buttgoy.


(I'm shitposting btw I understand you're probably not Jewish and genuinely mean what you say)

But yeah you misunderstand women my friend. Your complex political and philosophical views are not to be shared with any woman, let alone your gf. Firstly women simply are not able for political disagreements or complex topics, especially when there is extreme societal stigma over some truths. Women - due to no fault of their own - are intensely vain and socially conscious creatures. Almost everything they do is in order to fit into social roles and gain social capital. From their makeup to how they sound to what they say. They are superficial - child like or innocent.

It's a severe form of autismo liberal pathology you've picked up which requires men to share all their dissident political views with their apolitical normie gf. Why would it matter what my potential wife thinks of my opinion on the Peloponnesian War for instance? It doesn't. As it doesn't matter what I think of WW2.

Honesty is important. And ideally to raise children you want a coherent and unified moral structure that both parents agree upon. But we're not living in an ideal world (quite the opposite). So you make with what's due.

>>16242477
Yeah, calling the presocratics a material monist seems to me to lose sight of what "material" was to them, fire was not dead matter, and the commonly held difference between mind and body did not exist then.

>If everything - whether spiritually or materially - is reducible to flux then we have fallen into incoherence.
But he's not reducing it to flux anon, what does it mean that "having harkened not to me but to the Word, you should agree that wisdom is knowing that all things are one" if his philosophy is merely relativistic flux in contrast to Parmenides being? Or that knowledge is the common, what is true in or to all(which could be argued goes directly against Nietzsche's concept of percepticalism), going by his belief that there is still a definitive difference between wisdom or knowledge, and falsity; as he readily critiques the mistaken masses. Really one could argue that he approaches a moral conception(or as far as his moral conception goes) similar, though still distinctively Western(for multiple reasons which would be too long to explain), to Taoism. That for example as he sometimes says that strife is the same as peace, the important thing to remember is that the river stays the same to him, the waters differ as the nature of being. But then of course he also says that the man stepping in it is as different as the waters-- But no one would call Taoism "evil" though you could say it was lacking in moral revelation, as one might say the same for Heraclitus... but Evil, no.

I should also say that Heidegger despised Nietzsche's readings of the Presocratics for good reason. Heraclitus does not deny the law of identity, but I do completely agree with you that for example Heraclitus had a more "tragic" view of the world, in that even Heaven would eventually burn up in the flames, everything of existence would be destroyed, and then recreate. As far as I can see, that does not mean the eternal Word or prior structure would be destroyed, i.e. being, but if it does I suppose if you can balance the tragic conception of everything being swelled up in that, with the fact of an eternal "natural" recreation, you can get Heraclitus.

I apologise if I rudely spammed a bunch of needlessly extrapolated text and am making you read it.

>>16242477
>>16242498
Also nice dubs yourself.

>>16240743
> The UK consistently rejected every peace offering Hitler made and actually it took Churchill bombing German cities about 8 times till they even retaliated with the blitz
Churchill made the peace offerings repeatedly contingent on returning territory the Germans had already taken, which they of course refused to do. Every peace offer from Germany, whether legitimate or not was met with a British response of "deeds over words".
Also Germany bombed London before Brits began bombing German cities, not that who started bombing first even matters.

>>16240743
>>16242865
However I will say that I do think that ultimately, Germany did not want to go to war against Britain.

>>16242880
No but they knew that was the price of invading Poland and did it anyway. Furthermore they should have recognized that Britain's foreign policy for most of the proceeding millennium was centered on preventing any one single power from dominating mainland Europe.

>>16242967
>Furthermore they should have recognized that Britain's foreign policy for most of the proceeding millennium was centered on preventing any one single power from dominating mainland Europe.
So what, a country shouldn't advance because Britain doesn't want a competitor? That's a policy designed to create war. This is actually what got Britain into WW1 despite Germany not having any designs on Britain or even being a threat to British interests considering Germany didn't even have a navy worth anything.

>>16242865
Yeah I'm sure the notorious warmonger actually wanted peace with Germany.

bumped.

>>16243216
I got the sense that he didn't. It was really Chamberlain who desperately wanted peace. Regardless, doesn't mean that Hitler wanted peace either. He wanted peace, sure, but peace that was contingent on Germany retaining all territorial gains it had acquired since the war began, which of course would have amounted to Britain handing over domination of the continent to Germany.
As an Italian at the time said "Hitler is now the gambler who, having won, desires to quickly gather up his chips and leave the table."
Its not as simple as a binary WANT PEACE vs NO WANT PEACE. The conditions of peace are very important. Everything hinges on the offered terms.

>>16242865

>Also Germany bombed London before Brits began bombing German cities

Difference in scale. Axis was targeting military infrastructure, Allies went for civilian casualties - inciting an Axis counterbombing raid focused on civilians. This had two effects; (1) wipe out civilian support for the British Union of Fascists, who had been advocating the previously popular notion of not another world war. BUF lost popular support when British civilians started dying. And (2) causing a concentrated axis bomber raid on London proper focused on killing civilians as a reprisal to lost german civilian lives. Said fleet was punished hard by the Brits.
Pretty shrewd move, but then Brits continued, including the infamous unnecessary 35-250k dead at Dresden.

>>16244248
>As an Italian at the time said "Hitler is now the gambler who, having won, desires to quickly gather up his chips and leave the table."

As an Italian, allegedly, quoted by Shirer, said.

>>16226791
Gold in the Furnace is also very good.
Pic unrelated.

>>16244395
Good informative post, although the subtle moralist undertones of it make it seem worthwhile to point out that bombing runs on residential areas of London were being planned by the Germans anyway. That said yes, the counter-bombings at that time were a strategic oversight.
>>16244518
Is Shirer supposed to be unreliable?

>>16244623
>Is Shirer supposed to be unreliable?

He routinely cycles between suggesting that Hitler is some Teutonic terror or a Vienna gutter tramp. He pushed the Niemoller Buergerbraukellar angle, among other things, and there's an anon here who routinely points out that the post-Barbarossa stuff is the "Keitel narrative". There's other stuff, you know, about the Kiev massacre (Graebe), the so-called gas vans, and a bunch of other shit.

I don't think Shirer intentionally pushed the stinky Hitler narrative, but he wrote it in '57 or '58, right? It was seminal and he got a lot of things wrong.

Good book to have on your bookshelf, good read, but a lot of real WTFers in there.

I forgot to mention, Mr. Shirer used a lot of the (now-debunked) Trevor-Roper stuff for his quotes.

>>16245006
>>16245024
Thanks for the info, will look into this more.
I will say that while reading the stuff quoted from Dahlerer seemed fishy

bump

>>16242830
>I apologise if I rudely spammed a bunch of needlessly extrapolated text and am making you read it.
You didn't my friend this is an interesting discussion.

>But no one would call Taoism "evil" though you could say it was lacking in moral revelation, as one might say the same for Heraclitus... but Evil, no.
Well my contention would actually be that that sort of moral / epistemological relativism IS evil. I think once that sort of deconstruction of truth occurs you're naturally leading to the absence of goodness and so evil. Just as in the greek maxim of three universals; truth, beauty & goodness; if you attack one you're attacking the rest. This ofc doesn't mean I'm throwing all of Taoism or Heraclitus out, I think there's plenty of wonderful stuff there and particularly the more you explain Heraclitus the more respectable I find his thinking. Still I went through my Nietzschean vitalist phase, I'm searching for higher truths now. Watching Aarvoll and youtube, sofia perennis is the way forward imo.

> Heraclitus had a more "tragic" view of the world, in that even Heaven would eventually burn up in the flames, everything of existence would be destroyed, and then recreate.
This is the sort of destructive attitude I see in Heraclitus which I think is ontologically dangerous. It doesn't give room for the eternal which never falls or decays. You can see why some sperg satanists would be attracted to this sort of destructive pessimism in his understanding of the world (no matter how true it may be for the material world).

Regardless we're going around in circles now but good discussion. I mean to properly read Whitehead and Deleuze in a bit. I already like Bergson a lot, especially the Qualitative / Quantitative Time distinction.

Hitler threads are always so comfy.