/lit/ - Literature

inb4 pissed off onion

yes

Neurological dispositions

Nah
They're too busy getting compliments on /soc/

The patriarchy's too good to them.

It has been done already

The trips are really up-and-running this morning! Good to see! But there is one glaring absence: Brownbear! How can you guys start important threads, knowing he's not here to help with replies!

There's quite a good criticism of such theories from Naomi Klein in No Logo IIRC. Focusing on the use of such things as language actually distracts us from what the real issues and factors are, and may force groups to concede/negotiate/compromise where they hadn't before.

However, this may be me speaking from an English speaker's perspective, a language where gender plays a much smaller role.

bump

>>1622289
Fewer people have responded to this than expected.

>>1622304
When someone wants to level-headedly discuss French Feminism?

How surprising

>>1622319

Just shut the fuck up, okay?

>>1622319
just stoop to the level of your fellow trips and get to trollin outta control.

ITT: Virgins

>>1622328
What's the template again?
>Be in France
>Go to Marché Plus/Non-chain café or bakery, cuz they're there
>Have some book, probably by Irigaray or something
>Girl comes to talk to me
>Laugh at her for the underlying Masulinist philosophy in her language and her ignorance of them
>Be completely ignorant of the irony of this
>Post this all day ev'ryday

>>1622334
Enter The Mad and the Butthurt

/lit/erate woman here:

I assume you're talking about what Irigaray is talking about in "This sex which is not one." I think her suggestions as to what that "ecriture" would be like are very interesting, but that's besides the point; you asked 'will they do it,' not 'what will it be like.' I think it is quite sure that they will. There are a lot of smart women out there. (We just seem rare because our concentration is so diluted.)

All mankind ever did was because of PENIS. Men do stuff to compensate for their PENIS, no matter how big they are, we all want more. That's also why Africa is not on top of the world. Meanwhile, women do stuff because they want PENIS inside them and I could go even further and say they envy our PENIS.

>>1622346
It all comes down to writing your name in the snow.

>>1622343
>I assume you're talking about what Irigaray
I had Cixous in mind primarily, but Irigaray certainly goes without saying on the topic, thanks

>>1622356
>>1622343
Who wants to give a few good thinkers on this? I know I'm not familiar enough with this to talk about it.

feminism is the prism of the future for political and social philosophy.

>>1622396
would you rather be a cyborg than a goddess onionring

lit theory is just not worth my time until they stop hurfing so much confused "pomo philosophy"

>>1622398
i am both.

>>1622400
onion are you a transhumanismz?

>>1622406
flesh and blood i have glasses though

>>1622411
That's hot.

anyway let me show the op's question to be a confusion so you guys see what's up


>Will woman ever break free of the tyranny of the phallocentric patriarchy and fashion for herself an écriture feminine with which to express the female imaginary?

patriarchy is a 3rd person description. female imaginary is a performative with 1st person content in the form of actual conception of self and whatever in OBJECT form. the objectivity of this conception is not a metaphysical notion but a structure of its logic.
the 3rd person descriptive does not interact with 1st person logical content.

so there is no contradiction.

>>1622424
To clarify: They're not, in fact, mutually exclusive?

>>1622424
>drawing on patriarchical language and modes of thought to dispel the notion of patriarchy

>>1622432
patriarchy is a sociological observation. it can inform one's self-constitutive ideals, but they are different and concurrent processes of thinking about the self.

>>1622411
>I have glasses though.
I call bullshit.

>>1622446
I think I get you. Social world can be a patriarchy, but that would not stop me from "expressing the female imaginary", since that is of the individual (though a patriarchal society may not, presumably, be the most conducive environment for doing this).

This then means that you don't need to break free of the patriarchy, nor that having a female imaginary would mean I have broken free of the patriarchy.

Right?

>>1621986
What's up D&E? Not feeling too depersonalized today are we?

i wish you all a miserable death in the clutches of an STD-infested vagina. August Bebel was the last real feminist on earth.

>>1622456
well, they are really not related problems. both fighting patriarchy and forming your own identity are good and worthwhile, and they inform each other. it's not an either-or or necessity conditional.

>>1622460
ack. change related to "same logical world" or something

>>1622460
Ok, cool. Thanks.

>>1622443

another sophism with a catchy gif to dismiss a valid answer...you are getting very predictable fuckboi

>>1622465
Yeah, it's cool. I got you didn't mean related in a broad sense.

>mfw vdub, chandlerbing and BB all need glasses

Am I the only healthy tripfag on this board or what

>>1622446
>patriarchy is a sociological observation
It's a little more than that, it's a symbolic order which underlies and influences sociological observations

>it can inform one's self-constitutive ideals, but they are different and concurrent processes of thinking about the self.
Patriarchy doesn't just inform one's "self-constitutive" ideals, it informs one's self; one is born into patriachy because patriarchy is inherent in the symbolic order of language and therefore one's self, with the self as narrative, is unavoidably patriarchical; hence the need to devise ways of speaking about the self, I guess if you're a woman and uh... don't know any third wave feminism or something, which do not simply reguritate this patriachy

>>1622472
I don't wear glasses
I have perfect eyesight
those are a prop
I've told you this before
Sometimes I feel like you don't listen to me
Sometimes it's like you don't even care
Sometimes you make me wish I was dead

>>1622476
That was probably a while ago, they suit you anyway.

>>1622472
im not going to do dis with you little boy you gotta read my book to finally understand why u r going down the wrong road.

of particular interest is this line
"it informs one's self"
teehee you can't into it

>>1622472
>>1622472
low blow D&E
low fucking blow man

>>1622496
>doesn't realise patriarchal language

>>1622501
>>1622501
are you a retard?

>>1622480
It's okay, I am aware that you are a woman, and woman, she lacks, and thus by nature of the patriachical symbolic order you are lacking; this is nothing to be lamented, but you must realise that you are accommodating this dreadful lack misguidedly with the powerfully phallic, or should I say, phaillic, totalising metanarratives of of logic and empiricism (either/or, male/female, husband/wife, father/mother, strong/weak, civilisation/nature) which marginalise and suppress woman's paradoxical nature as the Virgin Whore and thus you are simply repressing your problematic femininity and repeating male-centric ideology

>>1622509
you stupid troll

brownbear
Deepandedgy
onion

I challenge you to a game of chess!

http://lichess.org/tyckx1j3

>>1622509

babby's first reading of irigaray

still probably accurate

We will all die and be forgotten so why not just live a quiet life doing what you enjoy with the people you like?

There is no need to get upset over the opinions of others because in a few years, more or less, they will no longer exist.

I ascribe to the Renaissance idea that women are just men who haven't forced their genitals out of their body yet. So any day now, really.

>>1622532

Because opinions can turn into actions.

>>1622523

uragay

hahahahahaseewutididthurr?hahahahaha

>>1622532

Fuck your nihilist, hedonist crap.
Live not because of but rather in spite of futility.

>>1622523
not really. a confusion of logic and normativity

Funny. I was just talking the other day about the impulse I get to punch pretty girls in the face. He said he knew what I meant but maybe he was just being polite?

Have you ever seen a girl so pretty you wated to break her nose?

>>1622547

I feel something, it's not lust but it's not anger or hatred either.

I think the emotion you can most equate it to is being reminded unexpectedly of some crushing futility.

>>1622553
>I feel something, it's not lust but it's not anger or hatred either.
probably inadequacy

>>1622560

Maybe, actually.

They seem to be much happier than me, or at least they act like they think they are which is enough.

ITT: Dumb people think they are smart.

>>1622553
>>1622560

TYhose two feelings probably sum it up. I remember sitting with a girl, she had a boyfriend, I was the 'friend'. I remember getting such a strong urge to hit her, then repremanding myself for it, of course...now I just think it would be pretty hot to break a girls nose.

>>1622573
>>1622573

I think you're just a psychopath.

I guess it's easy to objectify them when they try to appeal so strongly to your sexual consciousness, though.

That being said, I've never had the urge to hit anyone, ever.

>>1622573
>>1622561
>>1622560
>>1622553
>>1622547

Your resentment and sadism are so interesting, no, really! I'm just resting my eyes.

>>1622582
why did you include me with them you stupid fucking shithead

truman you should post more on this topic i am LOLing all over the place

>>1622580

>I think you're just a psychopath.

Well, I guess it's a possibility. I don't feel like this is such a strange thing though. It's just very rough play. I don't think I'd ever do it though, not purposely. If I did I'd certainly apologise straight after.

>>1622582

Oh wow, I'd LOVE to break your nose.

>>1622582

I don't resent girls who dress like that at all.

The problem is mine, but I think it will fade.

My perceived 'misogyny' isn't meant to be malicious, I think women should actually be held as more valuable to society than men.

However there are significant and deterministic genetic differences between males and females and the will to deny this can only come from dogmatic sociological ideologies.

>>1622588
>>1622591
umad that every 15 year old thinks "oh my god maybe I'm a psychopath" after watching American Psycho? umad that your "fetish" is neither unique or interesting?

>>1622586
Sorry bro I am a fan of what you're doing here.

>>1622601
>However there are significant and deterministic genetic differences between males and females and the will to deny this can only come from dogmatic sociological ideologies.
This is an incredibly weak claim with next to no real support.
The differences identified outside of sexual reproduction (specifically neural details) are still open to massive amounts of interpretation as to their actual effects on women's behavior.
Not to mention the variances in these distinguishing characteristics are a very broad spectrum including members of both sexes. Statements on brain composition and chemistry cannot be easily encapsulated and then causally linked to the physiological definition of sex.
And lastly, this assumes gender is founded in sex. It's amazing that you (and everyone who likes to point to biological determinism as a form of refutation in any feminist discussion, period) managed to unravel the entirety of the complex problems of nature vs. nurture. You should probably go ahead and let other people in on this secret, it's pretty important.

>>1622607

Nope. irealise teenagers like that. When I was fifteen and in therapy for schizophrenia, I actaully embraced it thinking it was 'cool'. The broken nose thing, I just like to talk about; I like broken noses like you like childrens cartoons.

>>1622624
Too bad we don't have /bn/ for you. Or /bahemtw/.

I think the latter would be a popular board!

>>1622573
>with a girl
>she has a boyfriend
>sleep with her literally and/or figuratively
Feels nice the first few times, now I just feel objectified...

>>1622601

Truman Capote is dogshit. The tripfaggot, not the writer.

bumping

let's get back on topic

It's Écriture féminine OP, you forgot an accent.
Also, women can't write for shit.

Why would anyone write for shit? By definition, it's not something desirable.

>>1623263

>female imaginary

I always thought that was human imaginary. THANKS FOR THE DIVIDE YOU CUNT

Death of the Author: Roland Barthes

In post-modernism, once the art is in the reader's hands, the author might as well be dead. If you are into post-modern bullshit like that.

>>1623281
What's your point?

I think I an gay for the lady pictured by OP.

>>1623296
She is hot.

I am a man, but sometimes I think about having sex with men. Sometimes I have sex with inanimate objects of my own construction. My friend told me that I can't be "having sex" because they are objects and not humans. And so I said, can you have sex with a dog? And he said, why no, its bestiallity not sex. Then I told him his girlfriend is a dog, and that he's into bestiality. He laughed. But then I got serious and said, so should I stop having sex with objects and he said, you need to stop telling yourself that your' having sex with objects. Your masturbating with objects. And I said that that is insulting to the dignity of those objects.

>>1623312
> And I said that that is insulting to the dignity of those objects.
Fail.

>>1623281
Keep your shitty reading of that text well away from my threads please fucking hell

>>1623312

Shit, I lol'd.

>>1623312
>And I said that that is insulting to the dignity of those objects.
Fail. this is why i hate ppl with friends

Claire and Charley entered the message board simultaneoulsy. They stared each other down, and then each made a post in this topic. Claire said I want to talk about my feminisms, and Charlie said, baby I want to break your nose.

Two doctors walk into the message board thread and begin diaganosing them. Over lunch the doctors are discussing and accidently switch notebooks. Since they are identical doctors they have identical lunches, notebooks and hand writing styles. The doctors returned to their work with the wrong notes.

The thread nears 404 and someone decides to spam it with pictures of Women. The women are atractive to both doctors, although Claire's feminisms and Charlie's sadisms are unable to recognize either as sex objects.

Nineteen sexual objects had now breached the message and achieved massive impression. You might think the sexual objects were burned into the thread like an image burns into a TV. If we made a new thread, we wouldn't be sure they were still their, and so we don't make a new thread.

over in this thread, we have D&E and Tybrax arguing/joking around about some fairly heavy concepts and writings! Something about women or something! I'll stick to the Brownbear and the Fabulous, and let you gents have your fun over here LOL!

Claire and Charlie didn't mean to but they removed their clothes. Claire's feminisms demand she not stop talking and Charlie's sadisms demand that he begin punching people.

Charlie began discussing things with the 19 sexual objects. the way he saw it, they weren't doing anyone any good and should leave and bring back more people to be punched. Charlie couldn't punch sexual objects, he had to punch people and he wasn't sure how to convince people of anything especiialy when he was punching them, but for some reason he could relate enough to the sexual objects and find a common language.

The language invovled pulling their tounges out and cutting the tounges repeatedly. The sexual objects, which were anthropomorphic allow lacking many human features, enjoyed this as they enjoyed interactions with all humans.

Claire began wondering about "femine writing" and what it would look like She certianly new what masculine writing was, and that was a perplexing situation. She watched the sex objects engage in this new found language with The Sadist, and wondered if her new language might erupt out some kind of social action that happened beyond a message board, beyond a simulated enviornment. She left the message board, all though said she would return with her findings later.

>>1623346
>over in this thread, we have D&E and Tybrax arguing/joking around about some fairly heavy concepts and writings!
i wish.

>>1623376
Don't sell yourself short Tybrax!!! Your insightful and interesting posts are the whole reason this board exists! Thank you so much for entertaining and enlightening us!

I entered a message board and created a new topic. I then turned the topic into a simulated 3D enviornment, a perfect cube, 20' x 20' x 20'

I began screaming intensely and plunged inside the cube. Once in side, I immediately deleted everything outside the cube, cutting it's space off from the space of the message board post.

I decided to map the cube with coordinates, so as to not accidently fuck anything up. I assigned one corner the value of 0,0,0 and the opposite corner 20,20,20. I then had the computer calculate the other corners automatically.

I assumed position in the center of the Cube/Post and marked out 2 points on the wall behind me. They were 10,0,0 and 10,0,20, points A and B respectively. I then created a laser beam that when from point A to B. I called this Laser Beam One.

I did an identical process but with different cooridnates, at 0,10,0 and 0,10,20. This was Laser Beam 2.

I stood perfectly in the center of the room with a laser beam going from floor to ceiling directly behind me, and another directly to the left of me.