/lit/ - Literature

>>16200278
It was his own personal diary left unseen until after he died. How could that mean it was guidelines for his citizens?

>>16200278
>lemme just rewrite history to prove my point
what is the point of this thread

>>16200278
They were private writings he didn't even publish while alive.

>>16200299
So are we reading his diary desu?

>>16200323
Yes. Its also the most based book you will ever read. All other philosophy is made for those with elite genetics and birthright, whose destiny is untold greatness. Meditations is for the average man just trying to cope through life without killing himself.

"Just because you’ve abandoned your hopes of becoming a great thinker or scientist, don’t give up on attaining freedom, achieving humility, serving others, obeying God."

>>16200347
>Its also the most based book you will ever read.
I don't know man, many things are counterintuitive. He says it's better to ignore or even love someone who hates or insults you. That doesn't make any sense. It goes agains your selfworth, your dignity and even against the survival instinct.

>>16200347
That doesn't make sense. If you're just trying to cope and not kys, why impose countless moral restrictions on yourself to make life harder? If you have the willpower and self-control to actually put his advice into practice, you are obviously doing fine as you are. Don't get me wrong it's a nice little book but a bit idealistic to me.

>>16200365
Because that person was born a horrible person and could not help being so. Are you so illogical that you get upset when a dog barks or an autumn leaf falls?
"When faced with people’s bad behavior, turn around and ask when you have acted like that. When you saw money as a good, or pleasure, or social position. Your anger will subside as soon as you recognize that they acted under compulsion (what else could they do?)"

>>16200372
Without morals there is only nihilism and reality, you have to face the fact you are a worthless useless object of no value or meaning. Even in a world of nothingness, you would be peak nothingness. Things like "will to power", enjoying creativity, or even just goals in general is for mega mind geniuses like napoleon or van gogh. What philosophy is there for midwits and retards? Stoicism is best for people like us.

Either you read meditations or you pick a religion. That's all there is for retard sub 150iq being like myself. Call it cope, I don't care, it's all I have or will ever have.

>>16200448
So when you walk in the streets with your gf and a guy walks by and says to her "Hey bitch, nice ass!" would you say "Just ignore him honey, it's not his fault"?

>>16200278
This dude stoically raised his son to be a failure.

>>16200474
Yes.
What's your point?

>>16200474
>"its not his fault"

>>16200544
Peak beta. He didn't become emperor with this mentality, I can tell you that.

>>16200545
>>16200544
Nice, my stoic brother

>>16200555
Peak modern misinterpretation of masculinity.
What good comes from engaging with some insecure hoodlum that doesn't know any better other than sating your own petty fragile ego?

>>16200278
Stoicism is the opposite to this

>>16200564
Man you're so far gone, I don't think I can convince you here. I will just say:
show me a woman who finds this behavior better than when you protect her. You will find no one, you will dry their crotches. It's unmanly and it was always unmanly.

>>16200642
>>16200555
>>16200474
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj9Hzs-vBLE
This is you.

>>16200642
>protect
It's some idiot yelling on the streets. He's not a threat to anything but ego. If it were a man trying to attack you physically, then yeah, obviously you defend yourself, but when it's an idiot yelling, it's just that, some idiot yelling.
No one gets laid from catcalling, and no one thinks catcallers are cool or masculine. They're a joke.
>Man you're so far gone
Ironic

>>16200347
>Meditations is for the average man just trying to cope through life without killing himself.
No. I don't remember if it was epictetus or Seneca, but stoicism was meant as a philosophy for patricians.

>>16200474
No. An important part of stoicism is improving the community by behaving correctly and showing correct behaviour. If someone is actively sabotaging the community, you are to fix that problem. You're supposed to do this rationally though, not by chimping out.

>>16200679
That is true, but in the case of someone randomly yelling at you down the street, there is no rational discussion with such a person. The rational approach would be to just ignore it and move on.

>>16200660
>ego
oh nonononono
Using made up things so you don't have to act lol. Of course it's just an idiot and I didn't say you have to beat him to the grave but at least insult him back. Or give him a box on the ear or something, just to demonstrate you're someone he shouldn't mess with.
And when you don't think you can do that because you think you're or something and therefore you're afraid of confrontation, just train a little bit, be prepared.

>>16200712
"because you think you're *weak* or something"

>>16200712
Learn from the Romans.
What did the Roman army say/chant when approaching battle? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Dead silence.
What effect did that have? Absolute terror for the enemy.
Bite, don't bark. Yelling just makes you look like an imbecilic animal with no control.
Like this >>16200657
It's an idiot trying to bait you into a game not worth playing. Don't be a fool. Don't play.

>>16200742
I didn't say anything about yelling, what are you even talking about?
And comparing an army with an individual lol, there are other rules at play here. A 1 on 1 confrontation is different than war.

>>16200742
>What effect did that have? Absolute terror for the enemy.
>Bite, don't bark. Yelling just makes you look like an imbecilic animal with no control.
This, carrying yourself with a quiet dignity speaks far louder than puffed up bravado.

>>16200755
>at least insult him back
>I didn't say anything about yelling
Irrelevant semantics.
A guy yells some insults at a guy. In scenario A. The guy yells back and acts like a baboon under threat. Monkey noises to mask their fear.
Scenario B. The guy yelled at is stone. Completely silent. Doesn't give a shit. Isn't scared.
Person B is infinitely more disciplined and infinitely more terrifying.
Why do you think every army and every martial art teachhes an almost stoic discipline? Because it's effective.

I was recently watching a doco called "This is what winning looks like". It's about Afghanistan before the Americans left and they were trying to get the Afghan army into fighting shape. One of the biggest problems they had was trying to stop the idiots from shooting at nothing. The Afghan guys would hear Taliban shots in the distance and would immediately start spraying their weapons at nothing. When asked why they said it was to "show them we are not to be fucked with". The American marines, who were far more effective and far more disciplined/well-trained kept telling them it was just fucking stupid and a waste of ammo. They didn't listen because they were are trapped in a mindset of mindless bravado and posturing rather than results.
Don't be a monkey-brained dipshit.

>>16200803
And you're comparing again an army with a single person kek.
>acts like a baboon under threat
>Monkey noises to mask their fear
Nice strawman. Has to literally make absurd shit up to make an argument.
>Person B is infinitely more disciplined and infinitely more terrifying.
No, absolutely not, lol. When you insult someone and he just doesn't react would he seriously be terrifying to you? Or is it more terrifying when he stops and approaches you and you can see this could end in a fight?

>>16200839
>And you're comparing again an army with a single person kek.
Same principles apply.
If you want to take your advice from low status insecure men who act like baboons on the streets and youtube snake oil salesman cashing in on insecure betas who eat their nonsense up, then go ahead. You can be stupid if you want. It's a free country.
I have never heard a single person of merit or an "alpha" ever say the shit you're saying. I only ever hear betas who desperately want to feel like a big shot say this shit.
>When you insult someone and he just doesn't react would he seriously be terrifying to you?
Yes. You're not accounting for non-verbal signals. If the guy is visibly unshaken from provocation then you don't fuck with him.
You're advocating for an entirely meaningless confrontation with someone who is insecure and lashing out. It's utterly foolish. The only people I've seen yell at others on the streets are low status idiots. You never see successful high status men yelling on the streets.

>>16200839
>These quotes are from Mind Games: Psychological Warfare in MMA, an article in issue 56 of Fighters Only magazine.

>The psychologist quoted is Joe Bell:

>"The best when it comes to the staredown is Fedor Emelianenko. Watch him: he does not make eye contact and his entire expression is extremely relaxed - you would think he is about to sit down for dinner or something.

>"But here is the crucial thing. When the referee tells them to head back to their corners, Fedor suddenly darts a short look directly at his opponent - or through his opponent, I should say.

>"This kind of look is associated with antisocial behavioural disorders and psychopaths. They don't look at you, they look through you. It's emotionless, it goes deeper than skin level.

>"You will get a lot of fighters who will catch that look and suddenly realise they don't want to be there.

>>16200911
why are you even arguing with what is likely a teenager who hasnt even lost his anal virginity yet?

>>16200668
Epictecus was literally a slave

>>16200986
Because people who subscribe to his type of philosophy are a fucking nightmare to deal with so I'm hoping he'll realize that no one actually likes people who act like that or thinks they're cool and he'll not be a burden to the rest of the world.
A bit optimistic, I know.

>>16200365
being superior is the best revenge you can make, plus you improve yourself

ITT:
People who can't even fight for their own girl and make a lot of excuses for their weakness.

>>16201125
You got btfo lad, stop coping.

>my gf when i let random dudes talk shit

>>16201266
No, I just saw strawmanning. You just assumed things about me and than tried to refute that. But the fact of the matter is that if you don't stand your ground other strong people and woman will think you're weak. I don't seek approval of weaklings who got brainwashed by religion and books.

>>16200278
It's one of the few books that really consoles me.
>"Do away with the judgement, and the notion 'I have been harmed' is done away with; do away with that notion, and the harm itself is gone."

>>16200911
>I have never heard a single person of merit or an "alpha" ever say the shit you're saying.
Tbf most people who think this way just don't speak it out loud but that's what they think and feel.

>>16201436
>>16201420
>I don't seek approval
>but keep posting cope over and over like I'm begging for a father to tell me I did a good job
lol, whatever you say lad.

>>16201451
Look at how big dogs and little dogs act. Big dogs are the chillest motherfuckers on the planet. Never seen one that wasn't an absolute chiller. Little dogs go apeshit at the slightest provocation and even go nuts when unprovoked. Same goes for people. Little man syndrome.
They're small and want to feel big/intimidating. It's insecurity.
No one thinks you're tough when you do that shit, they just think you're an insecure psycho.

i read this 2-3 months ago and it resonated but it's clear that stoicism was barely sufficient to get marcus out of bed. half the entries near the end are him wishing he would just fucking die already. there's a practical/internal stoicism that everyone likes to quote from meditations, and that's great, but marcus also talked about the pseudoreligious side of things where all reality is guided towards harmony and purpose by a universal rationality. that's clearly a crutch that he used to downplay all the retarded and evil shit he complained about in his time, and it was clear that he saw through it.

>>16201436
>NO I'M NOT A DICKLET AND A MIDGE THAT HAS SOMETHING TO PROVE I SWEAR I'M TOUGH, R-RIGHT GUYS?

>>16201503
Strawman over strawman. I'm not talking about being a crazy psycho but about DEFENDING yourself. How fucking brainwashed do you have to be to kill the last instincts in your body and compare yourself with domesticated animals. Besides, the comparison is fucking stupid. I see chill small dogs all the time and also seen crazy big dogs. In fact dangerous and banned dogs are all big.

>>16200372

One of the passages that stuck with me the most from Meditations is "whatever doesn't harm the city, doesn't harm the individual". I've always heard it said stoicism is a heavily civic-leaning philosophy (which is Roman to a T) and this concept seems pretty key. Getting called a faggot by some drunk dude on the street is something you should just let roll off your back, pretty clearly. But what constitutes "harm to the city"? I'd posit that there are plenty kinds of injury to an individual that harm the city and require an active response, including a good 90% of shit pseuds here levy as gotcha examples of stoicism's cuckery.

>just let the brigand rob you dude lmao

That's an injustice that harms the society through harm to the individual. An armed stoic has every reason to defend themselves. The acceptance principle only comes into play if you're overpowered ("I have to learn to live without my injured arm rather than despair") and also doesn't preclude attempts to seek justice. But it pops up again in the event that justice can't be followed through ("they've ridden into the woods with my gold beyond my capacity back to fucking I don't know Germany, time to start over and not despair"). But bringing the brigand to justice is redress for injury to the city/society, because his existence and injustice harms the law/prosperity of the society by impact on the virtuous.

>>16201595

It's also a call to moral governance, because a society that cultivates weak individuals harms itself.

>>16201466
>cuts the last half of the sentence to make an argument
I seek approval but not from weaklings. How about not twisting my words

>>16201588
>DEFENDING yourself
We've been over this. It's some idiot saying words. Oh no. Scary. WOOoOOooOo.
If someone hurls an insult at you on the streets they are trying to bring you down to their level. By engaging with them you're being sucked into their shit, being forced to play their game. That makes you a bitch.

>>16201615
>I seek approval
I know anon, otherwise you wouldn't be here still begging for it from random internet users on a chinese cartoon forum.

>>16201616
>>16201616
>you're being sucked into their shit, being forced to play their game. That makes you a bitch.
That's where I disagree. You should at least show that you don't fear confrontation. When he just says a word or so of course don't get emotional over it but when it really hurt you for some reason you also shouldn't try to hide it and play it off. Just go with the flow.
Even if you make a mistake in a situation and later think you should have reacted slightly different, I think you are so much wiser if it is your own experience then when you just read the words of another man and took it for granted.

>>16201628
Ok, so now you're telling me you don't seek approvel from no one in this world. How unauthentic and fake can a person get?

>>16201643
>but when it really hurt you for some reason
That reason is insecurity. If someone feels the need to harass people on the streets that person is undeniable trash. If the words of trash gets to you, you've got some self-esteem work to do.
> I think you are so much wiser if it is your own experience
This is my own experience.
One time in my teens a few friends and I were walking into town when a car drove past and some guy yelled "FAGS" at us. I got a look at the guys in the car and they were all twenty something white trash. We thought they were a bunch of losers, laughed, and moved on.

>>16201652
>how fake can you get
Says larping "le tough guy" begging for internet approval from a mongolian basket weaving forum.

>>16201667
>That reason is insecurity.
Not always. Sometimes people approach me to tell me I should put my mask on and some do it in a very irritated manner. I don't know why but when I see people around me all like sheep and they harass other people over some made up lies from big pharma... I kind of lose hope in society in this moments. It's not really an insult against me as a person but I feel violated, I know that I am part of this shitty crowd of people and I start to feel hate towards this piece of shit that talked to me. I always answer calmly but afterwards I also think why didn't I just insult him? I don't know, some people just deserve it.
I guess when someone is not a threat to me I am stoic in my nature but I wish I could be more the opposite in such situations like described. And then I come here and people like you act like these are godgiven principles. It's not.

>>16200712
>but at least insult him back. Or give him a box on the ear or something, just to demonstrate you're someone he shouldn't mess with.
that's called acting like a fucking nigger

>>16201762
Acting all civilized and stoic and then showing your real face, a bitter little racist, lol

>>16201778
oh no someone on 4chan said nigger this has never happened before

>>16201778
>NOO NOT THE NIGGERINOS

>>16201778
fuck off retard

>>16201790
>>16201793
Thanks to my browser extension I don't even know which word you mean. It's the whole statement, not just a word.

>>16201821
ok, I'm racist
who fucking cares lmao

>>16201827
That invalidates all your stoic larping

>>16201821
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4

>>16201821
>POCINOS
it sounds like i'm talking about an obscure hispanic ethnic group lol

>>16201837
I'm not a stoic I just think you're a tryhard tough guy faggot
also lmao at the idea the romans weren't also racist by today's standards

>>16201841
>posts reference of a black guy saying the n word
doesn't mean you can say it vanilla face

>>16201861
why not retard

>>16201861
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cCyFGmRgSU

>>16201821
>actually downloading an extension to filter NlGGERS to "poc"
4chan 2020

>>16201861
having different words only certain races of people can say is obscene

>>16201874
The only obscene thing is the history that let to this word

>>16201887
maybe if your people had invented the wheel before Europeans arrived and didn't actively sell each other into slavery that history wouldn't have happened

>>16201894
>your
I'm not black. So now it's africas fault that there was slavery, what should the poor europeans do?

>>16201906
>I'm not black
oh so you're just a white person who feels bad because his great grandfather killed niggers.
>what should the poor europeans do?
why should the Europeans do anything? why should I care if some dindu I have zero relation to is enslaved?

>>16201920
I don't feel bad for things that I had no influence on, I just don't see a point to continue the rhetoric.

>>16201906
niggaz be lockin other niggaz up in chainz n shiet then sellin em to whitey
das fucked up right der

>>16201936
>I don't feel bad for things that I had no influence on
so why bring up slavery then
>I just don't see a point to continue the rhetoric
how is calling someone a nigger on a Tibetan cocaine-snorting forum "contributing to the rhetoric" exactly

>>16201956
Because originally the word was kind of a title and every black person was called that, it was a replacement for the name, so they didn't have to remember their real names. It was a sign of disrespect. When you say it today, it is connected to this time and I just don't get why you feel the urge to disrespect them.

>>16201975
>it's a sign of disrespect
why should I have any respect for niggers?

>>16201991
>why should I have any respect for [insert random group]
Hm let me think

>>16201975
Based privileged whitey looking out for the poor oppressed negroes
You're such a hero, anon. You can use my pussy if you want.

>>16201996
I respect people who have earnt my respect, like whites, east asians and certain arab populations. so far niggers haven't done anything to earn my respect

>>16202003
what has someone to do to earn your respect

>>16202015
have a history beyond ooga booga spear throwing

>>16202021
but anon they invented peanut butter and the ironing board and they made a big mud hut in the desert once

>>16202021
>living in accordance with nature = bad
>creating artificial cities, dumb religions, wars, genocides, poverty = good
Ok I see, a memester

Apparently this is how he looked

>>16202045
So what?

>>16202043
no, retard, having an IQ above 85, conquering the weak, and being based=good
being low IQ savages who get conquered by others=bad
>dumb religions, wars, genocides, poverty
congrats you described modern day africa

>>16202045
das rite we wuz stoics nigguh

>>16202055
>IQ
you realize that IQ is a measurement for adaption in western and westernlike civilizations right? By this logic even our european forefathers would have a 80 IQ. Because IQ doesn't say something about intelligence. Take a 200 IQ guy and put him in the wild and see how intelligent he is.
>congrats you described modern day africa
Yeah, modern day africa, that got ruined by the west

>>16202075
>you realize that IQ is a measurement for adaption in western and westernlike civilizations right?
no it isn't, this is a cope done by people with low IQs
>Yeah, modern day africa, that got ruined by the west
Africa was always like that

>>16202075
Look, racism bad, I know, but since when the fuck has censoring words ever done anything good?

>>16202003
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJunCsrhJjg
This nigga plays a mean guitar

>>16202084
>no it isn't, this is a cope done by people with low IQs
How tho? IQ tests are man made tasks with man made conditions, so it measures a made up concept IQ and not the real thing intelligence. When you don't see that you are not really intelligence but maybe you have a high IQ, congratz.
>Africa was always like that
That's wrong

>>16202109
Hendrix is an honorary aryan

>>16202101
The thing with the extension was just a joke, I edited the image myself

>>16200983
>Psychological Warfare in MMA
>psychologist quoted
>some juicy pseudo-science
lmao

>>16202111
>hurr durr it's man made social construct
cringe reductionist take, same logic can be applied to language. IQ doesn't measure every facet of intellect but it still reflects someone's overall intelligence, no amount of retard reddit hairsplitting will change this unless you want to tell me people with down's syndrome are actually geniuses.
>That's wrong
no it isn't

>>16202119
>i-it was just a joke you guys

>>16202121
>he isn't a stone cold bad ass motherfucker
never gonna make it

>>16202136
Not only not every facet, I think intelligence is something completely different. For me intelligence is being kind of immune against >the system, knowing right from wrong on a deep and intuitive level etc. There are very very few people in our modern civilizations who I think are this real kind of intelligent and I think there are more people like this in primitive societies.
I don't even know why I'm writing this, you will probably misunderstand it anyway and just try to put me in a political box you already have in your head.

>>16202153
that's fucking retarded and gay
>I'm physically strong
>YEAH OK BUT I THINK STRENGTH IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
you sound like someone who wants to think that you're smart but got a shit result on you IQ test so you shifted the goal post to cope with it
TL;DR you're a reductionist midwit and a faggot

Give me the fucking microphone.
Listen up.
I'm sick and tired of all you loud ass entitled niggers running your mouths.
Every single day you come out here, you make the same damn posts. "black lives matter" this, "ACAB" that.
Well guess what I'm gonna do?

I'm gonna take my mouse
>WHAT?
I'm gonna click on the post number
>WHAT?
I'm gunna start typing in the reply box
>WHAT?
I said I'm gunna start typing in the reply box!
>WHAT?
I'm gunna call you a nigger
>WHAT?
A pavement ape
>WHAT?
A porch monkey
>WHAT?
A no good son of a sheboon
>WHAT?
I'm gonna solve that captcha
>WHAT?
The one with the fire hydrants
>WHAT?
The one with the stoplights
>WHAT?
The one with the bicycles
>WHAT?
The one with the cars
>WHAT?
The one with the busses
>WHAT?
The one with the CROSSWALKS
>WHAT?
I'm gonna click submit
>WHAT?
I said I'm gonna click submit!
>WHAT?
I'm gunna derail the thread!
>WHAT?
Send all you ungrateful niggers back to Africa
>WHAT?
That's right, I said I'll send you back!
>WHAT?
AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE
>WHAT?
CUZ STONE COLD SAID SO

>meditations
>not a single om or namaste
2/10

>>16202168
It's not about me, why should I try to promote my intelligence when I'm anonymous anyway.
Strength is something you can directly measure when you let two people fight. But can you prove that the aspects that an IQ test measures are really connected to intelligence?

>>16202153

>>16202185
>it's not about me
yeah no it is, your worldview usually reflects your own inner psychology
>strength is something you can directly measure when you let two people fight
factors like willpower and pain tolerance play a role in determining who wins in contest of strength too, retard, but no one goes around like you are saying "um akschually this doesn't reflect TRUE strength"
>can you prove than an IQ test measures are really connected to intelligence
yeah I can, because it literally measures your intelligence, shit like spacial awareness, verbal reasoning, pattern recognition etc. are all measured by IQ tests

>>16202199
how do you explain low iq "idiot savants" like many autistics?

>>16202199
>yeah no it is, your worldview usually reflects your own inner psychology
I mean it's not about my IQ because I don't even know it
>yeah I can, because it literally measures your intelligence, shit like spacial awareness, verbal reasoning, pattern recognition etc. are all measured by IQ tests
But those are still made up patterns etc that you don't see NOWHERE in nature. Someone who is confronted with this kind of shit in the school system is of course better adapted to this man made patterns than someone who has never seen them

>>16202209
autistic savants are extremely fucking rare and represent the exception not the rule you mong

>>16202211
>I don't know my own IQ
you're still obviously coping about insecurities surrounding your own intelligence then
>But those are still made up patterns etc that you don't see NOWHERE in nature. Someone who is confronted with this kind of shit in the school system is of course better adapted to this man made patterns than someone who has never seen them
genes play the biggest role in IQ differences between people so this is a moot point

>>16202220
>you're still obviously coping about insecurities surrounding your own intelligence then
That's not right
>genes play the biggest role in IQ differences between people so this is a moot point
You just ignored what I said because you refuse to believe that The Bell Curve is political rambling

>>16202215
so they have something intelligent about them without having high iq's. So, though IQ is a general indicator, it shouldn't be used for intelligence evaluation among individuals.

>>16202220
>genes play the biggest role in IQ differences between people so this is a moot point
lol imagine thinking this. Studying vs not studying is the bigger factor.

>>16202229
>that's not right
yes it is, people's political views are attached to their own insecurities and inner psychology
>the bell curve is political rambling
I never mentioned the bell curve retard, in fact I've never even read it. I believe that IQ plays a bigger role because of adoptive twin studies

>>16202235
I mean to a certain extent, but we're talking about this on the scale of racial groups, not individuals. IQ is also a combo of your performance on multiple different measures of intellect, not just one, so their poor performance on everything else cancels out the stuff they're good at

This book is pretty much Jesus' teachings for atheists

>>16202240
>studying determines IQ

>>16202261
Studying determines intelligence, which would help get higher IQ scores

>>16202246
>yes it is, people's political views are attached to their own insecurities and inner psychology
But I'm not political and why are you trying to tell an anon on the internet that you know him better than he does himself
>I believe that IQ plays a bigger role because of adoptive twin studies
I don't have a problem with IQ as it's own thing, it's just misleading when it's used synonymously with intelligence. It should be called ASI (artificial system intelligence) or something.

>>16202266
studying what? reading book doesn't make you smarter it makes you more knowledgeable

>>16202268
>I don't have a problem with IQ as it's own thing, it's just misleading when it's used synonymously with intelligence. It should be called ASI (artificial system intelligence) or something.
that's just being pedantic dude

>>16202253
True, but consider this. Who's smarter?
Person A is typical, has a high school education and average IQ.
Person B has a low IQ, can't drive a car or recite basic facts, BUT, they can preform any math equation in ten seconds. A human calculator.
Who's smarter?

>>16202282
person B because they can actually function in day to day life

>>16202272
math, language, history, science, ect. Textbooks and classics. Not just reading, but thorough studying.

>>16202291
do you not know what the difference between IQ and knowledge is?

>>16202289
Do you mean person A?

>>16202299
yes

>>16202298
I was of the idea that knowledge and intelligence were roughly the same, with IQ measuring other aspects influenced by higher/lower knowledge/intelligence

>>16202304
IQ measures the ability to reason and process information, knowledge is just what you have memorised

>>16202301
That's a fair take but you see the point I'm making.

>>16202277
>that's just being pedantic dude
No it's being real. It's said that your IQ determines your future success in life. That sounds about right to me. Because the most successful people (meaning having good jobs, making much money etc) were good at school, at uni ect.
What does it take to be good at school? You have to be successful in solving man made tasks on paper. When you have this skill you can obviously also solve successfully the IQ tests that are also man made tests on paper.
I know people who were bad at school but I think they are intelligent. And I went to one of the best colleges in my country and therefore wouldn't do bad in an IQ test but don't think I'm intelligent because of that.

>>16202313
I mean I guess so, but this is a pretty rare situation so it's kind of irrelevant for 99% of the time. It mainly just shows that IQ isn't 100% perfect but no system is so that doesn't matter too much

>>16202309
Well I think such things are related. Also, I argue that knowledge is not what you've memorized. I can memorize equations, but unless I actually understand them, it's useless. Is this really a good definition of knowledge?

>>16202316
your ability to do well in school isn't determined by your intelligence and anyone who says this is an idiot. it's determined by how much effort you put in, and nothing more

>>16202325
this is literally just splitting hairs. it also doesn't change the fact that reading lots of stuff won't improve your IQ because IQ tests don't measure what you already know. you're just changing definitions to suit your own argument

>>16202330
I just wanted to show the relationship between your perfomance at school and your IQ. Someone who is really bad at school will also have a low IQ number. There are certain key skills that determine your grades AND your IQ.

>>16202348
there is no real relationship, the only way IQ will determine your performance in school is if you're incredibly dumb or incredibly smart, because after a certain point it's just about effort put in

>>16202320
>pretty rare situation
yes, absolutely. I do think IQ testing is useful for studies related to intelligence. But I've known people who would disregard others simply because they had low IQ's, which is failing to see that intelligence isn't just that number. It's better viewable by looking at and trying to understand the other person's ideas and points. I think everyone here can agree that's a better determinate of intelligence, even though it's not possible to gauge scientifically, but only in personal communication.

>>16202352
Yeah, that's why most people are in the middle

>>16202344
>reading lots of stuff won't improve your IQ
correct, because IQ doesn't measure intelligence. If it did, this wouldn't be the case.

>>16202344
Are you saying that IQ doesn't determine memorization ability? Is not memorization an aspect of intelligence?

>>16200278
people who live in fear love acting real strong.
Stoicism is fucking cuck shit, Zen is where its at.

>>16202374
stoicism and zen are compatible philosophies.

>>16200299
>How could that mean it was guidelines for his citizens?
its how he thought of them in a way

>>16202385
They are similar in many ways but have axiomatic different roots. Meaning one is about choosing to act tough in the face of the uncontrollable and the other is about acceptance and universal oneness. Stoicism assumes free will and Zen does not necessarily.

>>16200679
Used to be someone would run people through like that.
Now the state needs all the taxpayers it can get so we have to put up with it.
If I break a faggot's nose, I get court dates and sued for medical bills.

>>16202403
>Meaning one is about choosing to act tough in the face of the uncontrollable and the other is about acceptance and universal oneness.
i see no need to divide these ideas

>>16202419
One is about control the other acceptance.

>>16202625
but being ale to control and accept ones own emotions and reactions are intertwined.

>>16201821
honestly based

>>16202688
all control is an illusion

>>16200278
OP you are a fuckin moron
happy now?

>>16200679
The best way, psychologically speaking, is the pain of being ignored as per >>16200708

To engage such malicious provocation is to surrender yourself to another's will. You win by acknowledging their slight and ignoring it. This is so simple I'm surprised you didnt deduce it.

Likely because it's a fairly pragmatic philosophical work. As is in general the appeal of Stoic philosophy. Though, you say he wrote the guidelines for slaves, even though it appears you forget that he followed the same beliefs as many had in his day. Epictetus, one of the 4 philosophers of Stoicism who now lives on, was a slave himself for many years in his youth.

>>16200278
I don't really think stoicism is for me. I thought some stuff in it was interesting but it mainly just seems like "nothing matters, you will die eventually, etc" but those thoughts don't comfort me or make me think about things differently.

>>16200278
>It's basically an emporar who writes guidelines for his slave citizens so they could never be a danger to him
It's literally bits of his diary you fucking retard. Later read by aristocrats for aristocrats, are you serious. Also the man was barely at home in his career, mostly fighting.

>>16203374
I think you're just low IQ and can't into even the most basic philosophy. Maybe if you're reading self-help junk or just diving into Aurelius without context then it's partly excusable.

>>16200278
> slave
> citizen
must suck having a double digit iq, eh?

>>16200803
great documentary btw, would recommend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI

>>16200347
>Just because you’ve abandoned your hopes of becoming a great thinker or scientist, don’t give up on attaining freedom, achieving humility, serving others, obeying God

"Cope" the book

>>16200299
I mean you can seriously believe what is useful to you.

>>16200278

>>16200278
>Are people seriously this blind to not see it?
only anglos (protestants) obsess over stoicism, so yes

>>16200642
>show me a woman
>woman
kek masculinity is not being appealing to women

>>16202153
Wow you are super duper dumb anon. Why not try reading and not being under 25?

>>16202211
Fibonacci is not found in nature? There are no patterns in nature? Are you out of your fucking mind you stupid dumbass?

>>16200299
/Thread. OP is retarded

>>16204777
Yes, and?

>>16202374
>Zen is where its at.
zen is the creation of midwits who wanted to be seen as intellectuals

>>16203289
Yeah sure, but in the case of someone touching your >gf it could potentially be the right course of action.

>>16204817
This has me in stitches jfc

>>16201731
>Not always. Sometimes people approach me to tell me I should put my mask on and some do it in a very irritated manner. I don't know why but when I see people around me all like sheep and they harass other people over some made up lies from big pharma...
Okay so ur a schizo, good riddance bro.

>>16200278
That's just an overly cynical appraisal. In truth you shouldn't want to riot like an animal the moment your demands are not met or you suffer a reversal of fortunes. Those who cannot govern themselves by reason are surely destroyed, and by the least trouble. Wisdom is better than gold.

>>16201027
He was a patrician where it counted. But in all seriousness it was meant for all humans, from slaves to emperors

>>16200347
Stoicism is not about mediocrity at all, it's ideal sage is arguably one of the highest examples set, akin to Nietzsche's uberman. How do you get filtered by the most simple of the Hellenistic schools?

>>16200347
Stoicism is not about mediocrity at all, its ideal sage is arguably one of the highest examples set, akin to Nietzsche's uberman. How do you get filtered by the most simple of the Hellenistic schools?

>>16200347

Seneca's "On the Shortness of Life" is the only profound piece of stoic literature. Everything else is self-help tier bromides.

>>16205788
>hurr uberman and sage durr
Yea too bad the neither of these states has ever been reached or will ever be reached anyone. Imagine being filtered by images of the ideal to strive towards.

>>16205132
To cope is not to enjoy.
You are not truly living your life, only coping with unhappiness. which is gay

>>16200278
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAGAGAAAAHAHAAAHAAAAA
FUCKING IDIOT THINKS HES NIETZSCHE LMAOO

>>16200642
Do you think that Leo DiCaprio gets in a fight with every guy who catcalls supermodel #2747? No. Do you think the women look down on him for it? No. Basically, you need to date more attractive women that are used to getting a lot of male attention. If you're worried about your girlfriend sucking off some homeless catcaller because she's insecure and he's the only positive attention she's ever received or if you're worried about your girlfriend expecting you to fight the guy, then you need a new girlfriend.

>>16206228
>the Stoic sage is unattainable
not true, the Stoics would be able to offer you several notable examples, your premature concession is just a cope and an excuse for mediocrity. Even beyond that, it's not about reaching the perfected end-point, but about moving in the direction towards it

>>16208148
>not true
K, then show the example of the perfect sage if he is real. Point me to the noble stoic sage of perfection whom has never done any wrong or any kind even once.
>moving in the direction towards it
That is what I said in my last post, yes. Did you have a reason to repeat what I said?

You have seem to mistaken Stoicism as being Nietzsche's Will to Power. I'm sorry, they are completely different philosophies.

>>16208241
>Show me a perfect man who has never had any vices
This is not what the Stoic ideal is. This is either a desperate strawman or you haven't really read anything on Stoicism beyond Aurelius' diary. It's often quite a good idea to read more of the actual source material before trying to make sweeping (and inaccurate) generalisations about the philosophy

>That's what I said
No it isn't, you suggested that the state was unattainable. What I am telling you is that, while the Stoic ideal is in its attainable (unlike perhaps the Nietzschean overman), even beginning to walk in a good direction is considered a good all in itself.

However, to satisfy your demand, a notable example of the Stoic sage would've been Socrates, although it really would have been anyone who lived in a state of eudaimonia, unaffected by the external world, in love only with virtue and reason

>>16208241
>Show me a perfect man who has never had any vices
This is not what the Stoic ideal is. This is either a desperate strawman or you haven't really read anything on Stoicism beyond Aurelius' diary. It's often quite a good idea to read more of the actual source material before trying to make sweeping (and inaccurate) generalisations about the philosophy

>That's what I said
No it isn't, you suggested that the state was unattainable. What I am telling you is that, while the Stoic sage is, by its nature, attainable (unlike perhaps the Nietzschean overman), even beginning to walk in a good direction is considered a good all in itself.

However, to satisfy your demand, a notable example of the Stoic sage would've been Socrates, although it really would have been anyone who lived in a state of eudaimonia, unaffected by the external world, in love only with virtue and reason

>>16209071
>>16209080
So Seneca is the grand authority of all stoicism and he has said that Socrates is the great sage? Or is it that Seneca is a follower of stoicism who is simply stating Socrates to be a good man to follow despite the fact he never met him? I can't even seem to find the line where he has Socrates is a sage.. merely that he seems to be a "model" or rather an interpretation of the sage. I shall wait for a real example.

The sage is a mythical idea to strive towards, and its goal complete in opposite to the uberman. They are not the same. The uberman is THE uberman who will come in the future to conquer all or whatever bullshit Nietzsche used to cope himself to sleep with. The Sage is just a mythical and idealized person to have as an imitation to strive towards, no one is ever actually going to become this mythical character, only close like Socrates did. It is the same as Jesus in Christianity.
>by its nature, attainable
It is not, no one truly believes you can be without any false perceptions or emotion for the entirety of your life. You are coping, it is an ideal.

>>16209246
Uberman - master morality

Sage - slave morality

Both are ideals to strive for, Uberman is just as unattainable.

Sounds like Christianity without any Jewish influence.

>>16209440
No, Nietzsche unironically thought people could actually become the Uberman. Then I believe (don't quote me on this) that this uberman goes around and changes culture to show everyone else how to become uber like himself. Something like that, I forget alot of what I read. It might have been that culture moves towards creating the ubermen and they are now the new normal human. Something autistic like that in typical schizo Nietzsche fashion. Regardless the Uberman was suppose to be a real attainable thing.

>>16209461
Sure, close enough poltard

>>16209246
>No one believes that you can be without false perceptions or emotion for the entirety of your life
Yes, they did. These are your own personal beliefs and limitations, I think you are the one coping here, see >>16208148

Seneca is one of the best authorities, although in fairness to you, Stoicism does have a lot of variation and some authors might have been far more austere in there approach to the Stoic ideal. If we are to continue using Seneca as a source however, the ideal is attainable - although he sets out that few make it to the top of the mountain, nevertheless, it is achievable by all men. It is not just an impossible 'Jesus-like' ideal whose only purpose is to delude you into going after a goal that no man can ever reach

Read pic related for direct source material

>>16209809
>Seneca is one of the best authorities
He is one person who followed stoicism yes. He is not the beginning of all stoicism and the end of all stoicism. He is not god nor the image of god. Stop worshiping him as such, he is but one of many men. You can see in the picture you use to quote him "neither do I eliminate pain and grief from him as if he were some sort of rock", why would he stress this factor if the normal view of stoicism is what he is already saying? Seneca is the exception. He has his own views that are uncommon to most.

Rather than worshiping a single man and quoting "sources" as if spoke by a supreme deity-like being in the way a common r*dditor would; I ask you to think why the idea of a Sage began. It is obvious what purpose the Sage holds, for stoicism is so very much linked to what the Sages represent. I speak of course of The Gods. They show wisdom, virtue, courage, love, and all the rest of human ideals in the forms of idols. In a sort of Plato forms sort of way, the perfection of the human ideals. The stoics had the Logos which had the will of the Gods as well, but more rationally minded, rather than pure fervor. The Sage is the natural idealized form of stoicism, it is very obvious the "pure" form of stoics. You are not meant to reach such a thing. It is immaterial as the Gods and the forms they represent are.

Stop thinking like a r*dditor, and especially stop thinking like an atheist when reading ancient philosophy.

>>16208148
>>16208241
>>16209080
>>16209246
>>16209809
>>16210041
Decent read, normally /lit/ is trash.

>>16202374
zen is for newage retards.

>>16200299
fpbp

>>16202169
Ba ba ba ba BABABABABABAAAAAASSSEEEDDDD