/lit/ - Literature

Berkeley

>>16176808
Sounds like low test gibberish to me.

>>16176808
Plank length debunks this.

>>16176859
>Plank length
From my understanding, plank length is just how small they can theoretically measure something.

"According to Simplicius, Diogenes the Cynic said nothing upon hearing Zeno's arguments, but stood up and walked, in order to demonstrate the falsity of Zeno's conclusions"

>>16176859
Go back.

>>16176859
Planks come in different lenghts.

>>16176859
>>16176882
Calculus debunks this I don't know what the deal with people talking about the Plank length is. I've seen this worked out using infinite sequences in an intro calc textbook

>>16176859
It's a methodological (or epistemic) limit not a metaphysical one

>>16176859
I dont think planck length really solves anything.
>>16176882
planck length (and more generally, Heisenberg uncertainty) is not a measurement problem, its a fundamental relation that two properties are physically not able to exist at the same time. In the case of the planck length think of it as a sort of "fuzziness" of nature at that scale
>>16176888
based & checked

>>16176888
Everything appears to move to the man without a home.

>>16176859
planck length is basically two things can't exist on the same space that low iq niggers turned it into a mainstream concept about muh smallest possible scale, there's a bigger truth anon open your eyes

>>16176859
Zeno's Paradox of the Onions
There is no technical escape from greater laws, from the immaterial. The more one struggles the more his hand becomes grasped by that which it seeks to grasp. The greater the force that he applies the more he himself is turned into a mush indistinguishable from the void of time. Lost to history the simplest tasks escape what is at one's fingertips.

>>16177136
Planck Length wouldn't debunk Zeno's Paradox right?

>>16176888
>kicks a stone

>>16177155
>doesn't prove anything

The
>planck length
Is genuinely such a good representation of how a midwit thinks. They can’t engage with the idea on a deeper level and just blurt out the most obvious reductionist trite their mind first accesses.

>>16176994
no it doesn't you fucking retard

>>16177140
The hand immobilised by the smallest object is torn up by the shock of the universe.

>>16177170
This is basic stuff not complicated at all. None of you have taken a calculus class

https://www.livescience.com/45253-zenos-paradox.html
https://mathworld.wolfram.com/ZenosParadoxes.html
http://homes.sice.indiana.edu/donbyrd/Teach/Math/Zeno+Footraces+InfiniteSeries.pdf
https://math.dartmouth.edu/~matc/Readers/HowManyAngels/SpaceTimeMotion/STM.html

>>16177193
>calculus

>>16177193
Short and sweet from Wolfram:

Dichotomy paradox: Before an object can travel a given distance d, it must travel a distance d/2. In order to travel d/2, it must travel d/4, etc. Since this sequence goes on forever, it therefore appears that the distance d cannot be traveled. The resolution of the paradox awaited calculus and the proof that infinite geometric series such as sum_(i=1)^(infty)(1/2)^i=1 can converge, so that the infinite number of "half-steps" needed is balanced by the increasingly short amount of time needed to traverse the distances.

"That which is in locomotion must arrive at the half-way stage before it arrives at the goal."

"In a race, the quickest runner can never overtake the slowest, since the pursuer must first reach the point whence the pursued started, so that the slower must always hold a lead."

"If everything when it occupies an equal space is at rest at that instant of time, and if that which is in locomotion is always occupying such a space at any moment, the flying arrow is therefore motionless."

>>16176808
6 or 7 years old. I remember sitting on the floor of my bedroom, thinking about how my thoughts always came after, and could never "touch" anything, and that the world was bound to my head.

>>16176817
fpbp, no contest

Zeno's paradoxes should be understood as the opposite law of thought to the Kantian. The possible poles that enframe our vision are the same, what differs is only that of intent, of the relation to metaphysical and physical laws. Zeno wants to eliminate that which is within the poles, and to become one with what is outside of them; Kant imagines the elimination of what is beyond the poles, a technical blindness to increase the force of all the limits within. For Zeno, the subordination of the physical to the metaphysical; for Kant, the subordination of the metaphysicalto the physical.
Zeno sees it not so much as an inescapable problem, but a trap; Kant sees the plotting of every line within the poles as a solution, and one which paradoxically puts him ahead of the tortoise. Zeno's One is the cosmic event of being; Kant's noumena is cosmic death through the lunar eclipse of the mind.

>>16177293
Wow thats very early, how did you deal with it? Alcohol?

>>16177140
kek

>>16176859
the planck length has no significant meaning at all, it is not a theoretical limit, it's not some length of a superstring or something, it's literally nothing but a unit of distance

>>16177957
Huh, indeed, and according to THE INTERNET accompanied by a series of equations that define a theoretical reduction in the "infinitesimal" Planck size - it is arbitrarily shortened to exhibit the outrageous triviality of the matter

>>16177957
retard
>>16178075
another retard

>>16178099
Post an elegant equation or get off my /lit/board

>>16178099
retard
>>16178099
another retard

>>16178134
>>16178135
seethe retards

Just do a supertask to reach the tortos in 1 minute

>>16177193
calculus doesn't solve shit. it just finds a neat way to work around it

>>16176994
Calculus "proves" that they'll meet and stay together till the end of time.
Another fucking brainlet.
(if somebody's really curious then browse archive for previous such thread - and NO, it's not plank length either)

>>16178228
The "paradox" was possible to solve by fucking Zeno himself, he must still be laughing somewhere.

>>16176888
Where do I read more on this fucking guy

>>16178228
The geometric series solution gives the exact same answer as the algebraic solution. You're wrong and making yourself look foolish

this is wrong because it wouldn't happen in real life
that is the only explanation you need

>>16178280
They're both wrong.

>>16178298
Achilles moves at 2 units a time interval. The tortoise moves at 1 unit a time interval and has a 3 unit head start. Are you really telling me your math skills are so bad you can't algebraically solve that? 2t = t +3

>>16178322
You don't solve paradoxes by applying fancier math, you find the mistake in assumptions.

>>16178337
It's not a paradox the math shows that. The time required for Achilles to catch up after each step decreases and the infinite series sums to the exact same answer as the algebraic solution

>>16178345
>Calculus "proves" that they'll meet and stay together till the end of time

>>16178366
What does that even mean? The geometric series sums to a finite time when Achilles and the tortoise are at the same distance along the race. At any time after Achilles will be ahead since he is moving faster.

>>16178371
He moves to a point previously occupied by tortoise, so it won't be ahead.

>>16178417
What are you talking about? The geometric series sums to the finite time at which the Achilles and the tortoise are at the same point. After that Achilles will always be ahead of the tortoise and will pass through every point before him

What's the problem, anons? maybe I can help.

>>16178417
Refer to this >>16178322. At t=3 Achilles and the tortoise are at the same point. At any time after that Achilles is ahead of the tortoise

>>16178430
You seem to don't even understand your own math. It shows that they will stop moving.

>>16178228
God damn I never want to listen to /lit/ talk about math ever again. Tell me you niggers at least know what a Cauchy sequence is

>>16176994
calculus is just a mathematical trick to avoid the problem

why do mathtards get filtered so hard by this?

>>16178459
Discount and reassert. Yes, very big brain my friend. Take this updoot.

>>16177451
Kant btfo

>B-b-but muh calculus solves the problems of the continuum!

/lit/: lmao you read fiction? What a midwit pleb, read philosophy and non fiction like a true intellectual like myself!

Also /lit/: How do man go faster than turtle tho?

>>16181298
So how did he? Do you have a solution to some of the most famous problems of philosophy?

>>16181531
Not anon but I already posted the solution from calculus >>16177193

>>16181538
>muh calculus
That entire field is suspect until they manage to construct the "theory" of real numbers on logically solid foundations

NOT A MATH PROBLEM
>NOT A MATH PROBLEM
THERE'S ONLY ONE THING WORSE THAN WIKIPEDIA PSEUDS, THOSE THAT DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THE FIRST SENTENCE ON WIKIPEDIA.
HOLY FUCK.
>Zeno's paradoxes are a set of philosophical problems generally thought to have been devised by Greek philosopher Zeno of Elea (c. 490–430 BC) to support Parmenides' doctrine that contrary to the evidence of one's senses, the belief in plurality and change is mistaken, and in particular that motion is nothing but an illusion.

>>16181546
That guy is a crank that doesn't believe irrational numbers exist
>>16181551
It is a math problem and philosophers are butt hurt that mathematicians provided the answer. It's explicitly covered in undergrad calc books

>>16181585
If irrational numbers exist, where are they?

>>16181585
How is it a math problem when Zeno said it wasn't?
Fucking autistic scifags don't belong here.

>>16181591
Take a right triangle with legs of 1 inch. Do you believe the hypotenuse of such a triangle can exist? The Pythagorean theorem says that the hypotenuse should be the square root of 2 an irrational number

>>16181598
The fuck do I care what Zeno said? He didn't have an answer calculus does

>>16181605
but a real triangle will have a length that is rational won't it?

>>16181612
So you don't think the Pythagorean theorem is true? That's not even college level mathematics that middle school stuff

>>16181608
>here's your calculus answer bro

>>16181531
Most famous problem of philosophy?
Nigga just walk past a turtle lmao
Where is the problem? Its just semantic wank with reality, its fucking nothing

>>16181605
You assume that the length of this hypotenuse has to exist because it's common sense or something like that. But facts don't care about your feelings...

>>16181642
So you're saying that if you measure out 1 inch then another 1 inch perpendicular you can't connect the two endpoints in reality? You realize how whacked out that is.

>>16176994
Anyone who has ever passed someone on the sidewalk has seen this debunked

>>16181655

>>16181551
From wikipedia:

Before 212 BC, Archimedes had developed a method to derive a finite answer for the sum of infinitely many terms that get progressively smaller. (See: Geometric series, 1/4 + 1/16 + 1/64 + 1/256 + · · ·, The Quadrature of the Parabola.) His argument, applying the method of exhaustion to prove that the infinite sum in question is equal to the area of a particular square, is largely geometric but quite rigorous. Today's analysis achieves the same result, using limits (see convergent series). These methods allow the construction of solutions based on the conditions stipulated by Zeno, i.e. the amount of time taken at each step is geometrically decreasing

For you math illiterates analysis is calculus. I didn't know that Archimedes had solved it though

>>16181662
What is supposed to be so mindblowing about this? Yes, I know the squares are the same color, but that's more a quirk of how things are represented in pictures

>>16181663
If it's not a math problem why does math literacy matter?

>>16181669
Your vision is a series of pictures

>>16181670
I could actually deal with this is philosophers stayed in their ghetto. Then we wouldn't have to listen to shit about metaphysics because we could just say physics has nothing to do with philosophy and philosophy can say nothing about the real world

>>16181672
You know what I mean gaylord

>>16181693
Why do you place so much trust on your perception?

>>16181686
Sure thing. Go build your toys while we use them for the military and control the state.

>>16181697
Why are you assuming that you perceived his response? He could of not written a reply

>>16176808
>When did you realize its all mass delusion?
When I received my first paycheck.

>>16181697
Are you saying people passing each other is an illusion? That in reality we are all just stuck in an infinity regressive collision somewhere?

>>16181703
Philosophy has nothing to do with political science just like math has nothing to do with philosophy.

A Zeno-type paradox that KEKULUS CANNOT SOLVE
Imagine a perfect lamp (cannot be broken and has an unlimited supply of energy)
At time t_0 = 0 we turn it on,
at t_1 = 1/2 s we turn it off,
at t_2 = 1/4 s we turn it on,
at t_3 = 1/8 s we turn it off... &c.
At t = 1 s, is the lamp on or off?

>>16181697
I don't, necessarily. I just think that optical illusion is kinda lame. Like, of course a square will appear lighter when surrounded by darker squares, just like you can set a melody to different chord progressions and it will change the "feel" of it. Context is important.

Philosophy is where retards go to feel smart

>>16181721
You're right that calculus can't give an answer to that but where do you encounter something like that in real life? Walking past someone moving slower is an everyday occurrence so that is why Achilles and the tortoise seems paradoxical

>>16181712
Motion is an illusion.

>>16181744
your dick is an illusion

>>16181721
>unlimited supply of energy
OK KID

>>16181756
well it's not really important for this problem, since it's only one second...

>>16181721
correction: time t_0 = 0, t_1 = 1/2 s, t_2 = 1/2 + 1/4, t_3 = 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8, &c.

>>16181721
A physics explanation would focus on the unlimited energy and the speed that the lamp would eventually have to be switched at. Both are physically impossible

>>16181724
Philosophy is where brain-Chads go when they need some variety from the hard sciences.

>>16181800
I'm not seeing a lot of hard science in here just unfamiliarity with calculus

>>16181716
Holy fuck you're retarded.
KYS.

>>16181828
How philosophy apply to a problem of political science? And if it can apply why can't math apply to a problem of philosophy?

>>16181551
this, let me handle it

>>16182004

>>16182054

>>16182004
>>16182054
what am i looking at can somebody explain this

>>16182115

>>16182124
isn't it obvious

>>16182323

it's zeno's paradox. and his name literally proves it's not possible.

>>16182323
No