/lit/ - Literature

>the Courage to Be Disliked
Fucking hell, so it really is true that the Japanese will put "courage" before anything to try and make it sound cool.

>>16157074
I refuse to believe the Japanese language is structured like that.

Everything about Japan is a meme: their unexceptional (at best) literature, their mind-rotting entertainment industry, their bland food, their overpriced products. It's amazing how well they've marketed complete mediocrity.

>>16156954
Japanese People
Happy People
Choose one. Srsly, the Salaryman Culture is the last place to look for happiness.

This is just a summary of Adlerian psychology in the form of a Socratic dialog. It has nothing to do with Japan or its culture.

>>16156954
No, you fucking retard. If you want to know what it's been about for the past hundred years, learn Japanese and read Konoe Fumimaro and Okawa Shumei write about the necessity of destroying the Anglo-American world order and expelling the white man from Asia.

>>16157109
/thread

>>16157561
I know Japanese. Recommend me specific books by these authors.

>>16156954
There's nothing japanese about that book though. The author explains it explicitly, it's about Adler and Plato. The book became famous in Asia before becoming famous in the west.

Liberal faggots’ hate for Japan makes me want to promote Jap culture even more.

Japan rocks, Jews suck, and the West is rotting.

Anime is cool and fun,
Musashi is a good novel,
Bushido is a noble code of honor,
Tea ceremonies are based and patrician,
Origami is creative,
Japs are open minded and spirited people,
Ramen is affordable and tasty,
Courage is an admirable virtue,
Hard work, perseverence and excellence are valuable traits that should be cultivated everywhere.

Japan is one of the, if not the, best country in the world. And is a model from which we should learn and one we should strive to immitate. All detractors are just coping hard.

>>16156954
The Japanese are very interesting people. They have a lot of good qualities, but they don't really know how to express them well enough. I mean, they're so polite and nice that it's almost embarrassing. But then I guess they've never had much choice in their lives, because if they didn't act the way they do, they'd probably end up dead by now. It's kind of sad.

>>16157444
If the Japanese are so unhappy, why do they have a lower suicide rate than Americans?

>>16158352
Bushidou is a made up propaganda concept, that did not exist before politicians of the 20th century invented it though. Also, calling Japanese people open-minded just shows that you've never actually dealt with Japanese people, because they're all racist and mysoginist cunts.

>>16158407
>Bushidou is a made up propaganda concept
So is multiculturalism, what's your point?

>they're all racist and mysoginist cunts.
There is literally nothing wrong with this.

>>16158445
Based response.

>>16158407
The Japanese, and east asians in general, are open minded compared to most westerners. But they are also modest and polite. It’s *you* who hasn’t interacted with many japs.

>>16158483
Sure faggot. It's not like I spent two years studying at Japanese universities, living in Japan. Please do tell me how I'm the one who hasn't spent much time with Japanese people. Keep living in your weeb-bubble of "wow Japanese people are so open minded, polite, and modest", fucking idiot.

>>16158445
The point is that you're admiring a nation for something they're not. Admiring them for soulless propaganda in which no one except weebs and brain-washed ultra-nationlists believe.

>>16157087
It's probably just a way to translate a syntax that sounds normal in Japanese into English.

>>16158764
"the courage to be disliked" - 「嫌われる勇気」lit. "Being disliked-courage".

Pic related: "The courage to lie to your lover" -「恋人に嘘をつく勇気」lit. "tell a lie to your lover-courage".

>>16158352
>Musashi is a good novel,
Couldn't you at least name a novel by a jap author, ken sama?

>>16158618
Why would anyone study at a Japanese Uni unless you're a SEAnigga?

>>16158841
East-Asian studies programs at European universities make you study there for at least a year, so that you can actually acquire language ability to a decent degree. Most US universities gloss over language ability, that's why most US students of "Japanese studies" or whatever don't actually speak Japanese.

>>16158852
Japanese culture differs a lot from other East Asian cultures. It makes more sense to study in China
>East-Asian studies
I guess that a privilege of living in a first-world country. If I were to study something like that, I would have nothing to eat now. I envy you

>>16158407
Wrong on all counts. Bushido is real, but it was defined differently by different people in different places, and went under several different names. The concept was manipulated by the Meiji State for its own purposes, but that tells us nothing about it as an independent intellectual phenomenon. Japanese aren't "racist," but they are definitely not interested in the games of pretend that Westerners love, and I have yet to encounter anything that can be called sexism here. Also, they're "open-minded" in the sense that, unless you're dealing with a left-winger or an extreme right-winger, you can say basically whatever you want to them and they will still tolerate you.

>>16158286
I don't remember the name of the essays in which Konoe Fumimaro expounds his ideas, but they're from the 1920s. If you poke around on Japan Knowledge, you should be able to find them. And as far as Okawa Shumei goes, his 大東亜秩序建設 is probably the go-to text on this. If you have access to a really, really good library, then 満川亀太郎 has some really interesting books, including 奪はれたる亜細亜 and 東西人種闘争史観.

>>16158792
Eiji Yoshikawa doesn't sound japanese to you?

>>16156954

>Japanese write self help book
>What the hell only us westerners are allowed to write self help books they must be marketing to us

Op could you project any harder?

>>16156954
Anon...
the book is openly based on Adlerian psychology.
Read at least a couple of pages from it, even though the book isn't really good.

>>16158376
maybe it's just me but Japanese people have never been particularly polite whenever I interact with them

>>16159390
Thanks for the reply, I will try to check my library. Also, if they're from the twenties, odds are they are on 青空文庫.

>>16159372
Not saying your opinion on "controversial" topics is not "open-mindedness", it's just intellectual disinterest.

>>16158923
It's not like there are no jobs to get with this degree; the notion that degrees in more or less obscure humanities programs won't get you a decent job is a meme pushed by stem-fetishists. Also I got some scholarships, so I guess you're right that I was pretty "lucky" in that sense.

>>16157087
Its context based, so lots of sentences if translated literally come out sounding like Hulk-speak. Hammer, big. I smash. etc.

>>16157087
Correct. The order is subject-object-verb. So this would be:
"To your lover, the courage to lie."

Should be noticed obviously that "your lover" isn't the subject, rather, it's an indirect object, but still.
Don't be autistic though - nobody translates this way. And if I actually knew any Japanese myself I'd probably be able to tell you an even simpler-sounding contextual thing that Japanese people would more likely say, that could be expressed in two characters or some shit, like "lover lie-courage"

>>16159372
>are definitely not interested in the games of pretend that Westerners love

>use wide multitude of phrases to avoid saying the word "no"
>20 different ways to say "sorry"
>average work week of 48 hours with workers staying late and unpaid even when companies tell employees to go work less
You tell me who's playing the games of pretend here. No way Japanese people enjoy doing all of those things.

>>16159966
It's actually "your lover to lie tell courage", because adding "courage" at the end of the verb, makes it so the whole verb-phrase modifies/ clarifies the "lie".

>>16160022
The Japs are dedicated to their work, are good team players, support their co-workers by staying late, and are polite enough to use subtlety and avoid causing conflict. All very admirable qualities.

None of what you listed are faults. Westerners should try to learn from them instead of being so arrogantly dismissive.

It’s so funny that left wing types are the ones who usually visit Japan, and they end up acting like such entitled colonialists and demeaning the locals so visciously. I am a literal Neo-Nazi white supremecist, and I have more respect for other cultures than you do. Shame. Be humble next time you visit. Maybe you’ll learn something.

>>16157087
fucking retard has no idea how translation works

>>16158764
>>16159833
>>16159966
>>16160236
>this many people missing the reference
I guess it's a good thing, from a certain perspective, that /lit/'s userbase is unfamiliar with anime quotes.

Japan in a lot of ways is the west’s future. No personal sense of morality, just plastic etiquette and shame. No real symbolism or tradition, just superficial cool looking ceremonies that have not meant anything to anyone in centuries. No true individuality, the individual being submerged into a million collective categories about which (largely) cooperate or idealogical badges you associate yourself with. Go to work, things make you happy, get things, don’t embarrass yourself, get strung along with the hope you can eventually do something depraved without being caught. Live in an anthill and blast your humanity away with bright lights and toys for children and liquify your brain with sex. We might have hordes of African regards running rampant but at least they’re fucking alive, at least there’s life left in the mess of the west. I look at Japan and I see brave new world

>>16160203
>dedicated to their work
Yes
>good team players
Results from collectivist thought rather than individualist thought
>support their co-workers by staying late
This is in response to very strong cultural norms. If they don't perform 110% at all times, they'll lose respect amongst their peers, and superiors, which because of the strong group identity rather than individualist identity previously mentioned, means it is even more important.
>are polite enough to use subtlety and avoid causing conflict
This is one of the greatest cultural differences between Japan and the West. Like I said, they will never say no. They may say "hmm... that's difficult" or something but never no. Respectful? Yes. But creates a drawn out "dance" which in the West is all but unnecessary as it's implicitly known that disagreement is not always the same as confrontation, but can be constructive.
>All very admirable qualities
You sound like a cuck.

>Heh, I'm actually a Neo-Nazi so I have the moral high ground. Step aside dumb leftist (everyone except me is a leftist), the Japanese would respect me since I would bow and be as submissive as I think they are. Also we're bros from the second world war!
Dim cunt. Japanese people would laugh at you behind your back if you ever came to their country and would (POLITELY) give reasons not to go out for drinks with you when you ask. Japanese people don't like foreigners and you're on of them. You're not somehow different, gaijin-san. Faggot.

Now that the (justified) ad hominem is over, my argument is that you completely misunderstood my point. I think that the Japanese are victims of many of these cultural norms. They suffer them. Salary men don't enjoy wagecucking longer hours. Why the fuck would they be different to us in that regard? Haven't you heard of karoshi? They do because they feel they must.

Also:
>Shame. Be humble next time you visit. Maybe you’ll learn something.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>16160627
>>16160627
>Japanese people don't like foreigners and you're on of them. You're not somehow different, gaijin-san. Faggot.

That’s fine with me. I don’t like foreigners either!

And yeah the Japanese are subtle and polite. They won’t chimp out to my face. How is that even close to being a bad thing? We should be more like that. I want more civility and higher standards in our culture.

Face it, the USA is degenerate and Japan is awesome. Go suck a nigger’s cock at an ANTIFA rally, butthurt peasant.

>>16160627
>If they don't perform 110% at all times, they'll lose respect amongst their peers

Performance and hard work are GOOD things. Striving to be the best, working for excellence, putting the needs of the group first- that creates stronger people, better people. You are a huge cuck if you think having low standards is good.

SACRIFICE and DISCIPLINE, not selfishness and laziness.

>>16161416
Ohhhhhhhhh, you're AMERICAN? Well why didn't you say so before! I could have disregarded your opinion sooner.

>>16160437
It's okay Anon, I got it.

>>16161479
USA is a synecdoche for West.

>>16160490
based
all the embarrassing weebs itt

>>16157087
Will you do a handstand if I prove it to you?

>>16160490
/thread

>>16157509
came to post this

>>16159740
That's for literature, not this kind of political stuff.
>>16160022
You're deliberately misinterpreting me. They are not interested in pretending that they want their country to be filled to the brim with the swansom and jetsom of every country from the Philippines to Zimbabwe. If they think that African-Americans behave poorly, they will say so. They are not interested in political games of pretend.
>>16160627
>Results from collectivist thought rather than individualist thought
What is this supposed to mean? Do you actually believe that these autistic terms describe anything real?
> If they don't perform 110% at all times, they'll lose respect amongst their peers, and superiors, which because of the strong group identity rather than individualist identity previously mentioned, means it is even more important.
This isn't even true. There is plenty of laziness here.
>This is one of the greatest cultural differences between Japan and the West. Like I said, they will never say no. They may say "hmm... that's difficult" or something but never no. Respectful? Yes. But creates a drawn out "dance" which in the West is all but unnecessary as it's implicitly known that disagreement is not always the same as confrontation, but can be constructive.
Do you have autism? "That's difficult" is literally the same as someone saying "Wednesday might be a little tough, can we pick another day?" It takes zero effort to understand and is in line with universal human behavior.
>Dim cunt. Japanese people would laugh at you behind your back if you ever came to their country and would (POLITELY) give reasons not to go out for drinks with you when you ask. Japanese people don't like foreigners and you're on of them. You're not somehow different, gaijin-san. Faggot.
No one has ever treated me this way. You are probably treated poorly because you have serious personal problems, not because you're a foreigner.

>>16160490
If you look at Japan and it seems that bleak to you, then you are probably dead inside yourself. Look away from the most popular focuses of attention - salarymen and pachink parlors - and look towards the very normal places that most people live in. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "personal sense of morality." People here have a stronger sense of right and wrong than they do where I'm from because it's bolstered by whatever collective context they happen to have been raised in. That being said, there's plenty of individual variation, just like in the West. For example, I know some people who basically grew up in an oversized village and then went to the big city for university. Most of them retained their original sense of morality and decorum, dislike the big city, haven't been able to make many friends who are themselves from big cities, and are conservative and against sexual degeneracy. A small number of them briefly assimilated due to being bombarded with the Japanese equivalent of left-wing progressive propaganda - yes, Japan has the same problem with left-wing professors, only they are actual Marxists here, not "cultural Marxists" - only to find that they intensely dislike the degenerate behavior displayed by such people and want nothing more than to return to the norms of their youth.
As far as symbolism and tradition go, these things are dead in the sense that the cultural elite is in favor of their death, but the political elite and those associated with them are different. If you look up Moritomo Gakuen and start poking around into the activities of organizations like Nippon Kaigi, you'll find that the people who rule the country are essentially closeted reactionaries who have been pushing towards the restoration of the Meiji State and its norms for a long time now. And, in case you didn't know, MPs, cabinet members, and PMs have visited Yasukuni Shrine every year on August 15th since the end of the war. Go there yourself and you'll see how many people care about their past.
And as far as individuality goes, I think that depends on how you define it. There is a lot of room for holding interests and opinions that others do not hold and still being friends. It's difficult to imagine a raging feminist being friends with a conservative woman who is completely open to being a housewife in the United States, but it happens all the time here. Perhaps you should rethink your conception of individuality.

>>16158764
>>16159833
>>16159966
>>16160236
>>16161828

>these retards don't realize he's directly quoting from the anime

>>16160437
>>16163892
>no, you dont get it, its from this one anime
>sir, i told you once already we cannot serve you if youre not wearing a mask
>you see araragi was talking with his deceased ghost snail loli friend and right between fondling sessions he made a funny joke about how the japanese language is structured in an odd way that's what I meant when I said that line I was making a reference to that joke from that show
>sir you can either purchase a mask from us for 4.99 or we'll have ask you to leave
>no no you dont get it its from an anime its from monogatari why aren't you listening are you listening to me its a REFERENCE ITS FROM AN ANIME SHOW ITS FROM A TV SHOW BASED ON A LIGHT NOVEL YOURE SUPPOSED TO WATCH IT IN RELEASE ORDER NOT CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER ITS A REFERENCE DO YOU HEAR ME ITS A REFERENCE IM REFERENCING AN ANIME AAAAAGAJRMGIXYWHRMKGL

>>16163062
>DEGENERATE DEGENERATE DEGENERATE
>everything I don't like is degenerate
>it's degenerate because I decided it to
>surely those "normal" people dislike it to

Pseud.

>>16164075
1. No.
2. You don't like Japan because of your liberal parochialism. Try to see past that and you will probably enjoy your experience more.

>>16163980
I think the other guy is dumb, too, but you're neither funny nor intelligent.

>>16164130
>he unironically thinks good jokes require/exhibit intellect

Japanese people are the most fucking neurotic people when it comes to how people view them what the fuck is this

>>16164148
You don't get it. Reread my posts and think about it.
>>16164169
The vast majority of Japanese have never had a conversation with a foreigner. About a third have literally never seen or met one. We might as well be an alien species to them.

>>16157109
>unexceptional literature
>he hasn't read monogatari

>>16157109
Cringe, but you're right about the entertainment industry

>>16158352
People who like or dislike things because of much politics are gay

>>16165207
The personal is political.

>>16160490
This is Kojeve's take, but no US is not going through like this looking at its current condition lmao

>>16156954
You know that most Asian don't Japanese, right?.

>>16162953
There is non-fiction and essays on there though, you know.

why should i take advice from bug people

>>16164169
It happens when the collective is integrated deeply to the psyche.

So many pseuds in this thread it's actually mind-blowing.

>>16156954
I haven't read it, but the title sounds like you're better off with some Nietzsche instead.

Chinese > Japs

>>16157074
Snail unironically makes a good point in that scene