/lit/ - Literature

>>16151735
Of course, he’s by far the most influential philosopher in human history

Yes, but He is much more.

He is God in the flesh, who took away the sins of the world.

>>16151735
The only good one, yes.

>>16151735
>bastardises Platonism through Jewish mysticism
Wow, so this is the power of Christian philosophy...

>>16151735
No, not unless you vastly expand the definition of “philosopher” to include those who don’t argue using logic

>>16151765
Christianity isn't Jewish.

Does anyone else feel burned out from like, all the Christians always talking about Jesus all the time? I mean, the kind of Christians that are like "high on Jesus" 24/7 and every other sentence they say is something about Jesus and how he loves you and stuff
Idk, maybe it's just me, I grew up going to a Christian school my whole life, church every Sunday, church outings, youth groups, etc and I think its fucking annoying af

Jesus is Lord, amen everybody?! Can I get a hallelujah??? Glory be to Christ Jesus our Lord and savior, yes Lord indeed. Please upvote, I'm totally not using religion as a way to virtue signal to my peers

>>16151757
based and christpilled

>>16151735
Carpentry.
>>>/diy/

No, he’s considered a cult leader

>>16151770
>worship a Jewish god
>worship a literal effigy of a Jew
>Jewish folklore and myth makes up half of the bible
Totally non-jewish

>>16151793
Jesus is based, christcucks however...

>>16151812
Yeah, I know what you mean

>>16151793
I feel like this happens a lot in prosperity gospel circles.

>>16151769
He may have. Kevin Solway says:

Personally, I think there are two main reasons that the Truth has not been explained absolutely clearly. Some people who know the Truth are too weak to explain it clearly, such as Kierkegaard - and there's no shame in that, since he was still a blindingly great man. Such men go in tight circles around the Truth, married to it, but are afraid to go any further. Others, possibly like the Buddha, and Jesus, probably did explain it clearly, but their best teachings were not recorded.

Students don't want to hear the Truth. They want to hear something poetic, mysterious, beautiful, benign. . . . *Something they can't understand*. . . . And it is that watered-down drivel that becomes recorded for posterity.

It's a miracle that any truth at all can be extracted from historical religious teachings. And when it can, it is more by accident than by design. Any truth that still remains in those teachings are only there because the religious followers can't understand it. If the followers had any inkling of what those teachings meant, those teachings would be promptly removed and forgotten.

For example, the most wise of the gospels, the gospel of Thomas, was left out of the Bible.

>77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the All. From me did the All come forth, & unto me did the All come forth, & unto me did the All extend. Split a piece of wood, & I am there. Lift up the stone, & you will find me there."

>>16151810
Why is Judaism bad?

>>16151735
He had a coherent ethical viewpoint that he promoted in his ministry, but he wasn't a philosopher in the sense of seeking to ground his teachings via rational argument. He essentially just issued commandments.

>>16151793
I hate the essence of Christianity, the dogma, Christ, etc. but I have deep respect for those who truly devote themselves to their religion (pic related). I also love the more mystical part of it, like the Book of Revelation.
Otherwise, I think that it poisoned the world.

>>16151765
What specifically is Platonistic about the ethical teachings of Jesus?

>>16151735
Yes, but thats like saying all the platonists are Plato or something. Hes not one man, its was an entire movement that the romans twisted to their own ends after they crushed the Jews- for a time.
>>16151765
More like the romans set history back two thousands years with incorrect ideas. God works in mysterious ways and I for one am thankful platonists are all dead or in academia- whats the difference really- and jewish mysticism is resurgent. At least jews don't have awful ideas like taking children away from their parents.

Inb4 nazis fuck off. This is "Christian" thread after all.

>>16151836
Right. Or it's not true

No, he intentionally excluded himself from this category. He is Christ.

>>16151769
What is happening in the gospels when jesus talks about saving the lamb that falls into a pit on the sabbath or argues that picking grain on the sabbath is fine because David (obm) ate the show bread? These are logical inferences. Jez even the prodigal son involves logic.

This positivist tendancy is so so bad imo. Logic is more about sophistry than philosophy proper. I realise its one of its 4 components but its honestly the least important imo and basically closer to math than the love and study of wisdom.

>>16151838
Idiots equate it capitalism because their idiots. They're unable to separate religion and spirituality from greedy people.

>>16151735
No, since he makes no arguments. Mere assertions are not philosophy.

>>16151895
Still not philosophy, since he did not qualify the premises.
If I say that it is okay to steal because I have seen my father stealing, am i doing philosophy? And if you think i'm doing philosophy, then my question is: is this philosophy of mine worthy of consideration?
Not every inference is philosophical

>>16151895
>This positivist tendancy is so so bad imo. Logic is more about sophistry than philosophy proper. I realise its one of its 4 components but its honestly the least important imo and basically closer to math than the love and study of wisdom.
There is nothing without logic (A=A) as the foundation. Not anything valuable at least. Only insanity.

>>16151895
Pilpul isn't logic, Shlomo.

Philosophers thy to find the truth, and Jesus is literally the Truth, so not realy he is their end game.

>>16151964
How do you know that Jesus is the truth?

I want to believe in something so devoutly that I can make something this beautiful. Literally how the fuck did they do it?

>>16151978
Money.

Is this that new Russian army church?

>>16151735
no, he never got a phd

>>16151974
He revealed it

>>16151978
They studied architecture. That's it, no ulterior religiosity was required

>>16151770

>>16151996
He asserted it, and so did many other false prophets. How do you know that he was telling the truth?

>>16151848
I understand your words. As far as I have come to learn about Christianity, it seems that of the schism that produced Judaism and Christianity, only one of these could be true. And of both, there will be a continuing forking as more and more incorrect ideas or heresies are introduced by charismatic people that are able to convince others of their own ideas. This effect increases as time kills people who were alive to witness the originating events. The implications of the divinity of Christ completely blow any other philosophy out of the water and forces man to accept its place in the universe with a template for behavior. The rest of philosophy becomes a boxing in of the psyche as each philosophy weights a few angular parameters of the human experience and how to manage them according to current year conditions. Only one of the sides of the schism was referred to as The Way. The other wrote the Talmud. Some men desire a relationship with god. Others a relationship with materials.

>Reducing Jesus to a "philosopher"
Guénon was right.

>>16151994
>>16151997
Imagine being this dense! People are animated by deep passions that obviously Jesus Christ sparks. Christ is the truth. One day you will understand this and enter the kingdom. The victory has already been won.

>>16151804
Still haven’t joined the 41% I see

>>16151838
HahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAhavahahahhahahajshahahahaHAaHAhAHahahahahahHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHagagahahahaha ha ha. Ha. Ha. Hahaha. Ha. Ha.
>He doesn’t know

>>16152210
>Jews considers us cattle according to the Talmud
Source?

>>16152221
The Talmund

>>16152237
Which sections? I'd like to read them

>>16151995
/thread
Jesus Christ btfo
Christianity over
How’s it feel christcucks?

>>16152089
This is the most based post itt
Read it, then think, then read it again, then look for Him.
He is working through this post and it doesn’t even have dubs.

>>16152195
It will

>>16152221
Works cited: the Talmud

>>16152221
>>16152221
You missed the part where Jesus is burning in hell in a cauldron of excrement

>>16151735

>>16152153
A shit ton of money was spent to achieve those results, fool.

>>16152210
carbon steel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cast iron

>>16152239
Gittins 57a and 57b are a good start but there are a lot of references to a “yeshu” Wikipedia and other pozzed sources float dozens of theories about, but rationally there’s only one “yeshu” they could be expending that amount of effort discrediting

>>16152280
Wrong thread, kid. Topic is:

>Jews consider us cattle according to the Talmud

>>16152301
>He uses modern alloys
>Never going to make it

>>16152304
>Control-F "cattle" -- zero hits
Try again, Shlomo.

>>16152304
>>16152280
I had actually researched this bit a few years ago, and it appeared not to refer to Yeshua, insofar as that passage had been written around 100 BCE.
Also, although it does not refer to Jesus, if it did I would not find it surprising. Christianity and Islam too condemns its erethics to an afterlife of torment.

>>16152332
Read the passages nigger

>>16151735
no. he was man of knowledge. silent knowledge. people were transparent to him.

>>16152337
I find this explanation hard to believe given the murkiness of when a lot of these passages first came to be, was it really some random Semitic thief living rent free under the rabbis yarmulkes or did this yeshu guy do more to offend them?

>>16152338
Quote the passage that says Jews consider us cattle.

>>16152363
From the wiki page (sorry for not having better sources, as I've told you I looked into it years ago):
>The identification of Yeshu as Jesus is problematic. For example, the Talmud mentionsYeshu ben Pandera/ben Stada's stepfather, Pappos ben Yehuda, speaking withRabbi Akiva,[3]who was executed at the culmination of theBar Kokhba revoltin 135 CE.[4][5]Furthermore,Yeshu the Pharisee studentis described as being a student of the second-century BCEnasiJoshua ben Perachiah, as well as being among the exiledPhariseesreturning to Israel following their persecution[6][7]byJohn Hyrcanus,[8]an event which occurred in 74 BC. Additionally,Yeshu the sorcererwas executed by theroyal governmentwhich lost legal authority in 63 BC.
Still, as I've said, I'm open to the interpretation for which Yeshu is Jesus. As I've said, I would not find it surprising, since all the other monotheistic religions reserve an afterlife of damnation for the people they deem as heretics. Still, I don't see how this relates to the "goys are cattle" claim. That sounds very disturbing even for the standards of other religions

>>16152337
>>16152363
The Yeshu passages obviously refer to Jesus, but Jesus was also a dirty Jew. Completely irrelevant to the claim that Jews consider "us" (non-Jews) to be cattle.

>>16152396
They obviously couldn't talk negatively about Jesus outright or they would be executed. Duh. They refer to him cryptically with plenty of plausible deniability. That doesn't make Jesus any less of a dirty Jew himself, nor get us any closer to confirming the original claim about non-Jews being cattle.

>>16152410
>>16152396
No, they don't, they're all referring to someone born well after Jesus or well before.

The question, then, is if the references to Yeshu are actually in there for juripsprudential reasons (there's like four different Yeshus: Are the matters that they were involved with all worthy of being included in the Talmud?) OR if they're in there as a coded way of referring to Jesus. I could see the latter, but then... Why code them? Why not just come out and say Jesus was evil? It's not like Christfags actually read the damn thing, it wasn't translated until like the 1700s, and every banning of it before then was an attempt at weakening Jewish legal power by stripping their ability to enact their own laws upon themselves.

Having said that, it's also pretty clear from the Yeshua passages that Jesus would fit everything the Yeshus are condemned for, so I wouldn't totally rule out the "code" theory.

>>16152429
Goyim=cattle isn't from the Talmud, it's from the Hebrew itself. The very word "goyim" has connotations of being lesser and subhuman. To put it another way, there is no way to refer to a gentile "nicely" in Hebrew, as the very idea of goyim being wicked and subhuman is built into the way to refer to them.

I've seen some others cite Jewish esoterica and commentary on the Torah which details this, and the status of gentiles, however.

>>16152463
>Why not just come out and say Jesus was evil?
Because they didn't want to be burned alive, moron. Even the cryptic passages were cause for purges and pogroms. All the Yeshu stories are clearly about Jesus.

>Goyim=cattle isn't from the Talmud, it's from the Hebrew itself.
Bullshit. "Goy" just means nation. You're talking out your ass.

>>16151735
Christ is Lord.

No.

A philosopher merely seeks the truth.

Jesus IS the truth.

Are there any sincere Christians here who recommend a book about Jesus other than the bible?

I intend to go on a long journey on foot soon and to take some books, and so far I'm planning to take the bible, The Imitation of Christ, and The Life of Jesus by Renan.

>>16152463
you realize the jewish people refer to israel/themselves as goy kadosh, right? goy doesn’t mean cattle. goy is nation, as in nation of israel/other nations. miqneh (מקנה) is cattle or livestock.

>>16152515
The Talmud wasn't translated until the 16th century, anon. It's not "A book", it's a collection of books. And no, they aren't, they clearly say they aren't, ever instance of "Yesu" is clearly stated as being born well before Jesus, and referring to someone other than him that is attested elsewhere, or well after Jesus, and is referring to someone other than him that is attested elsewhere. This was already discussed. It's not even just "one" Yeshu, it's several people.

And yes, that is exactly what it means. Non-Jew. Cattle. Subhuman. Slave race. This has already been discussed. If you aren't Jew, you're goy. God made goyim to serve the Jews.

I'm not sure why you made this post, you could have just read the thread.

>>16152552
Yes, words change, this is true, and humans are quite obviously not beef even if they lack souls. What's your point?

>>16152541
Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen.

>>16152566
based retard

>>16152567
Thank you.

>>16152541
Take some life of the saints collection, they are indirectly about Jesus

>>16152552
https://www.haaretz.com/life/books/.premium.MAGAZINE-we-curse-christianity-three-times-a-day-can-jews-and-christians-truly-reconcile-1.9072566
?

>>16152557
>The Talmud wasn't translated until the 16th century, anon.
You're a fucking idiot.

>The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: משפט פריז Mishpat Pariz; French: Disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: Procès du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of the King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.

>The Disputation set in place a train of events which culminated in a burning of a great number of Jewish holy texts, on June 17, 1242.[14] "One estimate is that the 24 wagonloads included up to 10,000 volumes of Hebrew manuscripts, a startling number when one considers that the printing press did not yet exist, so that all copies of a work had to be written out by hand."[14] The burning of the texts was apparently witnessed by the Maharam of Rothenburg, who wrote about the incident.[14]

>Donin's translation of statements taken from the Talmud into French changed the Christian perception about Jews. Christians had viewed the Jews as the followers of the Old Testament who honored the law of Moses and the prophets, but the alleged "blasphemies" included among the Talmudic texts indicated that Jewish understandings of the Old Testament differed from the Christian understanding.[15] Louis IX stated that only skilled clerics could conduct a disputation with Jews, but that laymen should plunge a sword into those who speak ill of the Christ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

>ever instance of "Yesu" is clearly stated as being born well before Jesus
And why do you think that is, brainlet? Try to think real hard.

>>16152515
Yeah and nigger just means nonwhite
You nigger

>>16152541
Confessions by Augustine
In nature I’d also recommend writings by St. Francis

>>16151793
Yes. As others have said various times there is Christianity and then there is "Christianity". America especially has a very strange, juvenile relationship with religion.

>>16152557
“Our vey, not that Jesus!”
“It’s about a different Jesus, we promise!”
“Now, about that mortgage...”

>>16151994
Were Bach, Vivaldi, Mozart and Handel also solely motivated by money? Regardless of your stance on religion, this is a ridiculous assertion, even for you.

>>16152586
Not that Jesus! We promise, goyim!

>>16151754
Fpbp

>>16151735
No. Which is why Christians debated literally everything he said for two thousand years. Any philosophy derived from Jesus comes from the Christian philosophers.

>>16152663
>Any philosophy derived from Jesus comes from the Christian philosophers.
Firstly, this is not true. Secondly, how does that exclude Jesus from being a philosopher himself?

>>16152640
I've been looking for a book or work of Augustine's to read in attempting to square Neoplatonic thought with Christianity; would Confessions be the book to read? I was thinking about reading Summa contra Gentiles for the same reason, but Aquinas seems more dogmatic, or further removed from philosophy.

>>16151810
Jews don’t use the bible
Jews don’t pray in churches
Jews don’t believe in Jesus
Jews don’t eat pork
Jews don’t celebrate christian feasts
But sure Christianity is Judaism 2.0

>>16152633
When you call a non-believer an heathen, do you mean that he is a subhuman? More importantly, does that justify you in treating him as a subhuman?
Afterlife punishment is a matter in the hands of God, and we're not God. The fact that certain humans will be punished by Him does not always justify us in imitating him. To prove so, you would have to link us a passage in which it is stated that goyims are subhumans, and that they should be treated as such. Maimonides explicitly rejects the second claim: Jews cannot trick and kill goyims for being goyims, nor they can misrepresent the Torah and the Talmud to them.

>>16152691
>I've been looking for a book or work of Augustine's to read in attempting to square Neoplatonic thought with Christianity; would Confessions be the book to read?
Not him, but yes. Plotinus is referenced a number of times in Confessions.
>Aquinas seems more dogmatic, or further removed from philosophy.
It is true that he operates his thought on a Catholic mindset, but he was heavily influenced by Aristotle's metaphysics. It's a rough read, though.

>>16152699
It's pointless to argue with people like him. He'll just keep screeching "semitic desert demon" or "demiurge" or "jew god" for the hundredth time.

>>16152699
The de-judaification of Christianity happened decades after the death of Jesus. All the Apostles kept living as Jews, St. Paul is the one who changed this (and this was a matter of controversy among the other first Christians).
While modern Christians behave differently from Jews, this was not the case for the first Christians, who actually knew Jesus

>>16152586
...For exactly the reason I outlined in >>16152463?

Again, I don't get why you're doing this. This was already discussed.

>>16152580
Thank you.

>>16152640
Thank you.

>>16152699
So we can safely say that while Christianity is Jewish, Judaism is not Christian.

Hm... It's almost as if... Christianity is derived from Judaism... Well, this radical theory would explain why the founder of Christianity, Yeshua Bar Yosef, claimed to be the Jewish Messiah... And is held as such by literally all Christians... As he is supposed to have fulfilled every prophesy in Judaism... Hm...

...Really makes you think...

Do you believe Christ/God communicates through coincidences anons?

>>16152716
Rough in what sense? That to approach it with an open mind such that you gain from it is difficult if you don't accept Christianity, or just that it is just an outright challenging text?
Also, very good to know on the Augustine front. Thanks!

>>16151757

>Still believes in bed time stories

I thought lit was supposed to be an intelligent board?

>>16151735
No, not really. A sophist at best.

>>16152750
>or just that it is just an outright challenging text?
This is it, though not really challenging but, well, boring and at times derivative. At least to me, anyway.

>>16152746
>didn't read the Epistles

>>16152790
Are you saying that two thousand years of Christian tradition and the Bible are wrong? That Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah?

>>16152793
Jesus is the Christian Messiah. For him to have been the Jewish Messiah he would have had to build the third Temple, which he didn't. Which is why Jews don't consider him to be the Messiah. This has already been cleared up for centuries, but here's your (you).

Yea

Why are you /lit/fags talking about philosophy?
This ain't a board for that. /his/ is the board for that.
Go back you reading your made-up love stories, faggots.

>>16152824
So, you are saying that two thousand years of Christian tradition and the Bible are wrong.

>>16152836
Agreed

Literature>Philosophy

>>16152845
welcome to /lit/, where the religion is made up and the philosophy doesnt matter

>>16152845
Fine, whatever puts your mind at ease.

>>16152856
Philosophy is the highest form of literature.

>>16152153
Most religious people are indoctrinated not enraptured or born-again.
>>16152195
Is this the name of your club?

>>16152652
Those are artists, and they were damn glad to get paid to do their art. I wasn’t as lucky.
Ridiculous dodge. Capital is king. It rules your heart. Jesus come second.

>>16151769
Lmfao he WAS logic. Anyone saying he wasn’t a philosopher is wrong because his entire life was the behavioral print of which the philosophy may be derived. The story of Jesus was the incarnation of the law into human form to right human condition with his own example. Its unironically the only story embedded with meaning as anything else is in comparison a dimensional reduction to temporal minutiae and therefore incomplete and illogical.

>philosopher
lover of wisdom
>christ is wisdom

>>16153113
Poetry is the highest form of literature.
Philosophy is a meme for bugmen and retards.

>>16153993
Take your meds, nutbar.

>>16151735
no he's a prophet.

>>16151804
The bible is the most important work of writing of all time

>>16151770

>>16151804
Just leave this board already

>>16152221

>>16154244
All philosophy is poetry.

>>16153993
Or, as Weininger put it:

>Logic is a law which shall be obeyed, and *a person* is *only then completely HE HIMSELF when HE is COMPLETELY logical;* nay, he *is* not, indeed before his is logic everywhere and throughout.

>>16152763
>most leftist board on the site
>intelligent board
Eh...

>>16151978
You'll find a lot of artists of antiquity to be of the faith.
Hubert and Jan van Eyck
>>16151994
Most artists are dirt poor. The trope 'starving artist' exists for a reason. Melancholy and misery fuels the creative spirit, or ennui.

>>16153530
...