/lit/ - Literature

>>16114591
woops wrong image lol

>>16114591
textbooks are almost the opposite of theory

Textbooks are only to be used in the industrial production of midwits

Just remember that micro-economics is the endgame. Read pic related for a comfy introduction

>>16114607
>Marx
There's plenty of actual theory to read through that isn't a meme good sir. Do try to read something about capitalism before reading a criticism about it. It's how we get people thinking dumb shit like "we need rent control to own the landlords" when the truth is housing needs become more commodified and less regulated.

>>16114687
>housing needs become more commodified and less regulated
*looks at where we are now*
uhh...yeah nope lol

> "read theory"
> posts econ 101 textbook
terminal bruh moment entering maximal velocity

>>16114795
it's a high school textbook actually, which means it's at the average /lit/ Marxist's level

>>16114768
Indeed. Look at where we are now. Zoning laws, restrictions on how tall or short a building can be, restrictions on the building of multifamily housing units, restrictions on minimum the size of housing, minimum parking size requirements, etc., all so people aren't made uncomfortable by a high population density in economically active regions, forcing poor people to live miles away to drive an hour of commute to go to work, ultimately lowering their real wages while hurting the environment.

>>16114848
>>/pol/

>>16114687
The housing price bubble is caused by currency debasement. The situation is not going to get better until governments are prohibited from printing more fiat money to cover their endlessly increasing expenses

>>16114848
ok, you weird neoliberal masquerading as a libertarian who now thinks he's an urban planner, how would you solve things?

>>16114870
>The housing price bubble is caused by currency debasement
> the fucking Cato Institute
> "read more theory"
> infinite keks

>>16114871
More free markets, less planning. The more free markety it is, the better.

>>16114687
>Do try to read something about capitalism before reading a criticism about it.
The concept of capitalism was first defined by socialists in the 19th century. Read political economy.

>>16114948
Capitalism isn't actually a thing, the set of phenomena that political economists try to call "capitalism" don't actually work in such a cohesive or functional way
In semiotic terms, capitalism is very much a symbol that people have come to assume to be reality
To write a critique of something that doesn't exist sounds quite difficult

>>16114885
wrong

>>16114885
>Countries with greater socialist aspects fare far better in terms of inequality, happiness, life expectancy, etc.
>Make the US better with more free markets

>>16114885
we're not in the 80s anymore anon

>>16114975
market socialism is actually consistent with micro-economic models, unlike communism or libertarianism from both of these camps of illiterate pseuds

I really don't think "here's a bunch of books/authors without any criteria or organization" is useful to anyone. It should probably be organized by topic and accessibility, at the very least, and a lot of those should be complemented with a few articles or chapters from other books that could offer you an overview of how the debate has evolved since.

>>16114975
>Greater socialist aspects
No such thing
Socialism is the worker ownership of the means of production
Even in nationalised companies, workers don't really own the means of production
You also narrowly focus on countries that were already wealthy rather than on the whole world
Stop lying to yourself

>>16114972
> capitalism doesn't exist
read economic history anon

>>16114607
I'm not reading anything on a chart made by an a*ime fag.

>>16114972
What a load of nonsense. Capitalism was straightforwardly defined by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in 1861 as the "economic and social regime in which capital, the source of income, does not generally belong to those who make it work through their labor"). That's the system at issue. There is no ambiguity.

>>16115059
why are you on an anime site? go to reddit.

let's say i want to educate myself on capitalism, socialism, economics, and personal finance but i don't want to read 84 books >>16114607, where should i start?
like 1-5 books to get me started

>>16114975
You should reason in counterfactual fashion. That is to say, just because the nordic countries are doing well now, doesn't mean they couldn't be doing even better. What I will say in favor of them is that they're highly rated for their ease of doing business and also have much lower corporate taxes than the U.S. Let's take Sweden as an example though. In 1970 it had a lower portion of government spending as a percentage of GDP compared to the U.S. It then tried to socialize its economy up to the point that that government spending became 70% of its GDP. Prior to this move, Swedish people had the fourth highest real wage in the world. Afterward, it fell to fourteenth. Sweden has improved ever since it privatized its spending.
But for your nordic countries, since you want to play this game, I give you Switzerland. The Swiss perform just as well in their happiness reports, have higher incomes, and have a higher GDP per capita than nordic countries.

Also, very importantly, the nords aren't actually socialist. Stop reading Marx. I'll even let you read Krugman. Just stop wasting your time on memes.

>>16114878
Not that it matters, but the Cato Institute is a well-regarded source of information. They of course have their own point of view, but that much should be obvious. Even mediabiasfactcheck.com considers their "factual reporting" to be "high." Considering that Murray Rothbard was one of the founders, it's not surprising that they would write about issues like sound money and the evils of rampant money printing.

>>16115006
Welfare-state capitalism is not market socialism. Market socialism is a species of libertarian socialism.

>>16115103
If you genuinely don't want to waste your time
>capitalism and socialism
Wikipedia suffices if you want a basic education
>economics in general
read >>16114591
>personal finance
read >>16114682 for the models of individual choice and Thinking, Fast and Slow for understanding how you make economic decisions

>>16115110
Lmao.

>>16115105
>But for your nordic countries, since you want to play this game, I give you Switzerland. The Swiss perform just as well in their happiness reports, have higher incomes, and have a higher GDP per capita than nordic countries.

Not the anon you're replying to but I live in Switzerland and our models of economic governance are closer to the Nords then it is to you Amerifats. We have a lower corporate tax, sure, and an advanced financial sector. But, we have long since abandoned the privatisation at all stops possible philosophy that seems to permeate your thinking. In fact, most of our municipal governments are run by socialist and green parties. We have a reasonable social safety net and a fairly decent unionisation spread, as well as nearly free university, generous scholarship programmes for poorer students, et cetera.

Some aspects of our society could be improved upon, and we are by no means a perfect society.

Stop trying to use us as a strawman every time you fucking fats want to prove a point. You guys do the same with gun rights, conveniently ignoring our vastly different social harmonies, gun cultures, and the fact that none of us are shooting up schools every four and half seconds because we actually fucking fund education and healthcare to a decent extent that our mentally ill students tend to get caught and rehabilitated before they massacre their fellow classmates in a violent, KFC-fuelled rage

>>16115103
Capital volume 1
Capital volume 2
Capital volume 3

>>16115103
1) Read the Mankiw book. It's a neoclassical meme but it will familiarise you to how the mainstream thinks about economics.
2) Read something by Marx. You can really go anywhere with him but don't read The Communist Manifesto because it's not an economic book. Maybe read the first few bits of Capital and then the Critique of Goethe. I would also strongly recommend reading David Harvey's A History of Neoliberalism because it is a great read.
3) Read something by Schumpeter after you read Marx. Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy is good because it engages directly with Marx's ideas.
4) Read something by Proudhon or Hayek. They're both on the fringes and are both on opposite ends of the political spectrum but it would be good to broaden your scope.
5) Read the General Theory by Keynes. I'm currently reading this and it isn't easy because it relies on you having a theoretical understanding of economics already, but it's worth reading if you understood the other stuff.

Take your time and read broadly. Even though idiots like to think of economics as a paradigmic school in which there's only ever one dominant mode of thought at a time, it isn't the case.

>>16115098
Define belong
That's not a clear definition at all

>>16115195
Basé et rouge-pillulé

>>16115195
Which language do you want me to call you a dishonest or retarded (let's be open minded) shitstain in?

>>16115197
been looking for an abridged version on zlibrary or libgen and can't find it

>>16115259
Own.

>>16115276
French, if you can muster up the finger strength through your ripples of fat to type in "Google Translate".

>>16115276
delete this vapid post with zero arguments

>>16114870
No retard it's caused by not enough housing. The price of most consumer goods has declined over time.

>>16115110
>Not that it matters, but the Cato Institute is a well-regarded source of information
It's a goldbug libertarian think tank.

>>16115101
Go back to /a/ and stay there. This is a board for literature you faggot.

>>16115242
I can recommend some micro/macro/econometrics stuff at the graduate level, if you or anyone else would like. I should also say that while Krugman's textbooks on introductory neoclassical stuff can replace Mankiw's as the material is all the same, Krugman is a literal unironic pedophile and so you're a bad person if you so much as pirate his stuff (let alone BUY, jesus christ).

>>16115195
Most US school shootings are done by Blacks/Mexicans for gang and drug related reasons.

>>16115195
>In fact, most of our municipal governments are run by socialist and green parties.
Didn't know this, actually. Thanks for letting me know.
>a reasonable social safety net
My understanding of the Swiss approach to welfare is money transfer payments to people below a certain means tested threshold. Milton Friedman himself was fine with such a welfare system, and took it even further by suggesting a negative income tax at a certain level.
>a fairly decent unionisation spread
The Swedes have a ~70% unionization rate. The U.S. is at ~10%. Switzerland is at about 14%. The Swiss are higher to be sure but the numbers are certainly closer.
>as well as nearly free university, generous scholarship programmes for poorer students
I actually don't have a problem with financing education. It's one of the few forms of spending that can legitimately be considered an investment. Education multiplies the productivity of workers, which increases their wages and GDP, which means we spend less money on welfare while having a bigger budget.
Some other points to bring about the Swiss at their system. The Swiss have not only a lower corporate tax than the U.S., being well known as a tax haven, but also a lower federal income tax. The Swedish top marginal tax rate is 56% or so. The Swiss also have a private healthcare system with a mandate, though it does implement price controls. This is still much more right wing compared to nordic healthcare systems. And it does all this while outperforming nordic countries that people keep bringing up in debates.

I actually don't bring up the Swiss regularly. I only do it when people play the "but other countries do X and are doing fine" card.

>>16115290
I can't speak French, try again
>>16115286
Actually come to think of it we don't have a word for shitstain in my language as a swear, I picked it up here

>>16115296
>The price of most consumer goods has declined over time.
They keep fudging with the indexes to make it look like inflation is not happening. But even if the prices have fallen, it's a temporary situation caused by offshoring. If the production had stayed domestic and all the consumer crap had to be produced with minimum wage labor, you wouldn't afford much. Housing cannot be moved to China, thus the ridiculous prices
>It's a goldbug libertarian think tank.
Buzzword is not an argument

>>16115143
thanks
>>16115242
thanks a lot friendo

>>16115284
don't read it abridged

>>16115331
>I can recommend some micro/macro/econometrics stuff at the graduate level, if you or anyone else would like. I should also say that while Krugman's textbooks on introductory neoclassical stuff can replace Mankiw's as the material is all the same, Krugman is a literal unironic pedophile and so you're a bad person if you so much as pirate his stuff (let alone BUY, jesus christ).
What macro stuff at the grad level would you recommend? I'm also a grad student but I do econ history as opposed to "straight" econ so my understanding isn't as technical as I'd like. I am currently in the process of trying to pass econometrics but it's hard.
>>16115344
>The Swedes have a ~70% unionization rate. The U.S. is at ~10%. Switzerland is at about 14%. The Swiss are higher to be sure but the numbers are certainly closer.
This number is somewhat obscured by the fact that a lot of workers in Switzerland can't join unions (because a lot of workers in Switzerland aren't "Swiss" per se). Foreign workers can be expelled if they strike (a law I am firmly opposed to). A better stat to look at is the collective agreement coverage stat, which measures how many workers have the terms of work covered by collective bargaining of some sort. The Swiss rate is about 57%, while the USA is about 11%.
> The Swiss have not only a lower corporate tax than the U.S., being well known as a tax haven, but also a lower federal income tax
This is true. But you end up paying a lot of other taxes in Switzerland. You have additional taxes levied at you at the municipal and then at the cantonal level too. The municipal taxes tend to be flat taxes while the cantonal taxes are proportional (generally). Also, we have a high VAT of 7.7%.
> The Swiss also have a private healthcare system with a mandate, though it does implement price controls.
Actually, our healthcare system is a total racket. Ask anyone who has lived in Switzerland. Yes, there are price controls, but they are totally useless, which was why I actually didn't mention our healthcare system. I pay an absurd premium and I am young and in perfect health. But then again, Pfizer and GSK exercise a lot of leverage with the economy here.
> My understanding of the Swiss approach to welfare is money transfer payments to people below a certain means tested threshold. Milton Friedman himself was fine with such a welfare system, and took it even further by suggesting a negative income tax at a certain level.
Something like this, yes. It's decent. It could be vastly improved, however. I believe that our means-testing systems lack and leave a lot of people to fall between the margins.
> I actually don't bring up the Swiss regularly. I only do it when people play the "but other countries do X and are doing fine" card.
Apologies for reacting so violently. Please understand, that most people have no idea about Switzerland and then bring us up to prove some kind of inane point about gun control or something.

>>16114607
>Adding in all that intersectional race and gender bullshit at the end
The Liberal reductionist rears his ugly essentialist head yet again. You're not a Marxist you're a Racialist.

>>16115103
all you have to read is the first volume of capital bro, all subsequent politic theory is rendered superfluous, maybe skim some wikipedia articles and hang out in chapofag discords if you want to keep up with whatever nonsense contemporary leftists have attempted to claim as essential reading

>>16115355
>They keep fudging with the indexes to make it look like inflation is not happening. But even if the prices have fallen, it's a temporary situation caused by offshoring. If the production had stayed domestic and all the consumer crap had to be produced with minimum wage labor, you wouldn't afford much. Housing cannot be moved to China, thus the ridiculous prices

Of course inflation is happening, farmers don't want prices to go down and workers want higher wages so you'd hope you could keep that up. If you had deflation people would be really mad. You can go look at old catalogues and ads on archive.org to see what the price of things were 40 years ago.
When wages are high what happens is you make things capital intensive cheaper. Housing is expensive because it's a form of financial savings for the middle class and families vote for politicians to protect their interests. Very few people that vote want their housing value to decline.

>>16115413
For the love of god don't read Mankiw or Krugman or any mainstream retards, it just makes you stupider.

>>16115347
>I can't speak French, try again
Do Koine Greek, then.

>>16115478
Σύ εἶ κόπρου στίγμα, ὦ ψεύστα Ελβετέ

>>16115565
I also thought of using κελαινός but that word wasn't really used in koine

>>16115432
I am also a grad student in economics, specializing in time series econometrics and empirical macro. For a good theoretical grad level macro book that isn't too difficult, I'd recommend Wickens' Macroeconomic Theory. Acemoglu's Macroeconomics book is also good. Many around the world use Romer's Advanced Macro but I found it a bit less intuitive.

>>16115455

That's retarded and akin to saying to a man wanting to study mechanics that he shouldn't read mechanics or thermodynamics because... reasons?

>>16115432
>The Swiss rate is about 57%, while the USA is about 11%.
Fair enough. I'll accept the correction on that one. I'm guessing the higher coverage is from sectoral bargaining agreements? Regardless, the Swiss are more left wing than America on collective bargaining.
>This is true. But you end up paying a lot of other taxes in Switzerland.
I'm aware you guys have a federated system, though the U.S. does as well. States without their own income taxes more exceptions than the general rule. We don't have VAT taxes, but we do have local sales taxes. That said, a 7.7% VAT does seem excessive. The number that may be instructive to look at here is how much government spending our respective countries do as a percent of GDP. The U.S. spends 34%. Switzerland spends 32%. Sweden spends 54%. We get similar big numbers between the other nordic countries as well.
>Actually, our healthcare system is a total racket. Ask anyone who has lived in Switzerland. Yes, there are price controls, but they are totally useless, which was why I actually didn't mention our healthcare system. I pay an absurd premium and I am young and in perfect health. But then again, Pfizer and GSK exercise a lot of leverage with the economy here.
There are going to be trade offs, at the end of the day. I haven't poured over the data deeply, but my understanding is that Swiss wait times are generally lower than other European country wait times. Lives are lost as a result of higher wait times. Government funded healthcare like the kind they have in nordic countries will indeed lower cost through the power of market monopsony, but it also leads to less incentives to provide high quality care, as well as less incentive to innovate. Basically, there's no perfect set up here. That said, despite the higher premiums the Swiss pay, they still have a higher disposable income overall, so I see that as an overall win, but I am not meaning to say that your system is perfect.
>Apologies for reacting so violently. Please understand, that most people have no idea about Switzerland and then bring us up to prove some kind of inane point about gun control or something.
No problem. I don't actually base my beliefs on what any one particular country is doing at the end of the day. For the record, though, I'm for forms of gun control that keep guns out of the wrong hands as opposed to banning any one kind of gun.

>>16115447
bullshit. value is created by means of production, not by worker. marx stupid narcissistic faggot.

>>16114870
ok jew

>>16117223
>>16117223
an idle factory is worth zero dollars

libertarians can’t name one country that didn’t industrialize without protectionism, industrial policy, and strong central state

>>16117253
Obviously and objectively untrue you poor fucktard

>>16115435
nah you are just a fascist. have sex.

>>16117437
based male feminist

please dont waste your time with keynesian economics, stop now its not real economics. read austrian economics

>>16117540
Lol, absolutely nobody in the Academia takes Austrian economics seriously. The good parts of Keynesian economics (sticky prices / wages leading to money non-neutrality, New Keynesian Phillips curve etc) have already been absorbed to mainstream modern macroeconomics – all the leading DSGE models are New Keynesian in nature.

>>16117779
>nobody... Academia

that is correct

>>16117852
I do not understand what you mean here

>>16115040
Anyone have a summary of this? Got to be the dumbest shit ever.

>>16117019
>comparing the pseudoscience of mainstream economics to the real science of physics
lol

>>16117253
The exchange value of an idle factory is the average labor time needed to reproduce it.

>>16117540
What makes it more real? The basic Keynesian attack (besides monetary stuff) is that it's ideas on how quickly/flexible wages/salaries are is very unreal and just a very special ideal case and not general.

>>16117779
>The good parts of Keynesian economics
>New Keynesian Phillips curve
>mainstream modern macroeconomics
>DSGE
Ya that's not good or believable.