/lit/ - Literature

>>16111442
What did they expect

Reaping the fruits. Pornography and transsexualism were feminist pet projects. Sex and gender are now liberated, enjoy the flow of unrepressed deterritorialised libido annihilating you.

I remember Margaret Atwood saying that everything she wrote in The Handmaid's Tale is based on reality. All of it has been done before by some culture or another.
Her premise of a fertility crisis may not be realistic though, given that the population is higher than ever. What it would take for this type of scenario to play out in real life?

>>16111459
Elaborate.

>>16111467
>Pornography and transsexualism were feminist pet projects
There have always been anti-porn and anti-trans feminists

>>16111470
The population would be in decline if not for mass third world migration, maybe she did not anticipate that?

>>16111488
>There have always been anti-porn and anti-trans feminists
yes and there have aslo been anti-big busness anti- corpratist republicans, whats your point? just because a portion of a population doesnt give the go ahead for something, doesnt mean the group as a doesnt either.

>>16111488
Who lost to their sex-postive feminist compatriots.

>>16111467
>Pornography and transsexualism were feminist pet projects.
Was transsexualism a feminist project? I always thought of it as a distinct phenomenon. Has anyone written about this?
>flow of unrepressed deterritorialised libido annihilating you
Sure, there was a thread about this being an outgrowth of g/acc. That doesn't explain the more traditionalist gender roles side of it though, which has made something of a countercultural reappearance.

>>16111442
>Future daughters, should i have any

Yeah i wonder if the feminism and wanting daughters kind of write over each other

>>16111470
>I remember Margaret Atwood saying that everything she wrote in The Handmaid's Tale is based on reality. All of it has been done before by some culture or another.
It's a hamfisted allegory for the Iranian revolution, she was too timid to take on Islam so she made Christians the big bads of her Iran allegory. Iran was a secular modern state until the Islamic revolution "turned back the course of history" and demonstrated the viability of traditional norms overcoming established liberal norms.

>>16111508
Feminism isn't an organization, even still there is little agreement among feminists about porn, sex work, and trans people. You all act like there was some feminist conspiracy or agenda but really if you ask ten feminists what feminism is you'll get ten different answers.

>>16111442
fucking incels, these losers are getting pretty violent huh

>>16111528
>Feminism isn't an organization
There are many feminist organisations, which have almost all been taken over by transmen and now exclude the TERF lesbians who created them.

>>16111488
Why are they losing so hard now then, after having won for decades? I'm trying to understand the essence of the cultural shift that has taken place.

>>16111498
That would explain the rise of nativism and right-wing populism. Maybe over time it will evolve into some kind of horrifying Nazi-style fertility cult.
It doesn't explain the other sides of it though. Trannies, incels, MGTOW and so on. It's like every aspect of society is lining up against women at the same time.

>>16111509
Exactly, and now they are being trampled underfoot to make way for the new feminism.

>>16111442
yes, and it's women's fault.

>>16111515
Probably to an extent, although many do have children. Just not as many on average.
Conservative Christian and Muslim women are doing the bulk of the baby making, so our demographics will shift more towards them. To the extent that children are influenced by their parents, that would indicate a Handmaid's Tale scenario.
Not sure how many generations it would take though. Maybe in our lifetime, maybe not.

>>16111548
Because they cant perform in the positions they didnt earn, cannot bear nor voice the unique consequences of not performing in high positions, can only bring down the level of seriousness in the work environment until it matches their skill level, then answer to nobody when it all tanks inevitably

Tree falls over in a forest with nobody around to hear it, does it cry oppression?

>>16111517
>she was too timid to take on Islam so she made Christians
Is that really the reason? I don't think Islamophobia was such a big taboo in 1985.
>the Islamic revolution "turned back the course of history" and demonstrated the viability of traditional norms overcoming established liberal norms
So the big question is, could it happen in the West? Liberalism still has a lot of cultural power, but it looks more and more like it is on the defensive.

>>16111470
This would happen exactly when it becomes necessary. Women will always live by the mercy of men. Tough times arrive, women's cute little societal projects will seize immediately

>>16111530
For now only a few, but the problem isn't going away. Also just wait for tranny incels.

>>16111543
That's interesting, are there any books or data on how they infiltrated?

>>16111626
Maybe so, but what does that mean for the future? After the various anti-women groups get their revenge, what do they do?

>>16111648
I can see that being a big factor, but then how did the sex-positive intersectional feminists take over from them? Is it just going to eventually be transwomen running the movement, because women cannot handle the responsibility?

>>16111517
The best thing about it is that there are several elements in the novel which can be interpreted as critical of women and the women's movement.

- The main character's mother (experienced in flashbacks to pre-regime days) is a man-hating shrew who lived a miserable existence in the absence of male companionship. Any joy in the mother's life was experienced vicariously through her daughter, who was involved in a conventional monogamous heterosexual marriage and was rearing a child. The mother would regularly sermonise about how men are all monsters and that women should rear children alone, while her daughter was getting on with life in a happy and fulfilling relationship.

- The governor's wife holds considerable power, and really, the entire 'handmaid' concept is women exploiting women. The handmaids are women servants assigned to the household of a prominent man. In addition to domestic duties, they must breed with the head of the household to produce children that he and his wife will raise as their own. This entire concept exists to allow sterile wives of prominent men to rear children. Huge sections of the novel are dedicated to anxieties surrounding female fertility and aging (concepts much better explored in Mrs. Dalloway). The governor’s wife’s anxieties regarding fertility and her desire to have children, manifestations of her female sexuality, are the forces driving the MC’s sexual servitude.

- The governor definitely fears the ire of his wife and it is implied that she has some recourse against him if he doesn’t fulfill his obligations to her. The wife is a powerful woman who exercises utter-control over lower-ranked people, including men. The governor’s fear of his wife prevents him from expressing the positive manifestations of his own sexuality, that is, his desire to nurture and be companionable with the MC.

(1/2)

>>16111660
>Tough times arrive, women's cute little societal projects will seize immediately
That makes sense, but full on oppression of women is another thing. Does it balance out eventually, or does it overshoot and go into Sharia territory?

>>16111442
What does TERF mean?

Yeah she is right, she forgot the Islamic takover though, thats a big one too

>>16111658
Yes it's already happening in many neighbourhoods of European towns and cities. Islam is more cohesive than liberalism, and an Islam that conquers liberal cities isn't going to abide in the defeated power and abandon what made it victorious.

yeah life is like soooo hard for women right now it's literally insane.

>>16111711
- Sex is used as a tool to control both men and women. Wives (and thus, sex) are only allotted to men based on their rank and service to the regime. In the early passages of the novel the MC revels in arousing the sexual desires of some younger low-ranking men who have no access to women. The MC has no compassion for men who are in a similar position of complete servitude. Her own female sexuality, expressed in a woman’s need to be lusted after, has been harnessed as a tool for the regime. Her own need to be desired fuels the desires of the younger men who are spurred in their service to the regime in the hope that they will have access to a wife (and sex).

- At one point in the novel a false rape accusation is used by the regime to whip a group of women into a frenzy where they beat an innocent man to death. This man was someone who was trying to inspire rebellion and, after being caught by the regime, is defamed and killed by being framed for a rape. Pretty funny in the current #metoo climate, that Atwood has a whole bunch of women who become blind to truth and are manipulated into brutalising an innocent man, all because of a flimsy rape accusation.

It’s a mediocre novel that steals its best dystopic elements from Orwell, Huxley, and Zamyatin. It’s a derivative work which takes some core concepts from these 3 much better works and adds a massive fixation on sexuality.

(2/2)

>>16111718
Lesbians who don't like cross dressing men. Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists.

>>16111727
>the only thing that matters is access to sex

>>16111732
These would, in general terms, be the feminists that are against mtf trans in female sports?

No.
Everything is emotionalism and reactionary bullshit.

>>16111658
Criticism of islam has always been one of the biggest taboos of the left. Just look at this.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/unmournable-bodies

Before the 12 bodies were even cold, the New Yorker published a sermon by Teju Cole, in which he pronounced the dead Frenchies “Unmournable.” Cole’s refusal to mourn made no sense, rambling through the Inquisition, “France’s colonial history,” US drone strikes on Pakistan, and an obscure 16th-century Italian theologist before he even got around to hinting in a cowardly, incoherent way, that those dead writers and cartoonists pretty much had it coming to them.

There was a lot of that sort of incoherent Anglo gloating going around, the kind where nobody says outright that they’re delighting in some outsider’s misfortune, but everybody gets the message very clearly.

Cole’s gloating was pretty mild, compared to what you found on the Left end of the net. Jacobin, which is actually a pretty good journal sometimes, decided to publish a more aggressive chunk of incoherent gloating by Richard Seymour, which includes this remarkable paragraph explaining, or rather declining to bother explaining, Seymour’s conviction that Charlie Hebdo is “…frankly a racist publication”:

>“I will not waste time arguing over this point here: I simply take it as read that — irrespective of whatever else it does, and whatever valid comment it makes — the way in which that publication represents Islam is racist. If you need to be convinced of this, then I suggest you do your research, beginning with reading Edward Said’s Orientalism, as well as some basic introductory texts on Islamophobia, and then come back to the conversation.”
There, you smell that? That, folks, is the stench of grad-school bloodlust, the rectitude one finds so often among people who are afraid of caffeinated coffee, but glory in consigning anyone damned by their favorite authors to violent death. And as soon as the seminar-hunt is on, the clichés come out: “I will not waste time arguing…” “I simply take it as read…” “I suggest you do your research…”

>>16111442
Just look at the Karen phenomenon.

Do you think this happened by chance? The left is increasingly dividing itself.

>>16111739
These would be the feminists who fear nothing more than peeing with their knees together and seeing some hairy ankles shuffle into the neighboring stall.

>>16111642
I do honestly do not understand pic related.

Is she dreaming if changing people’s beliefs? How will that work exactly?

She also can simply leave her parents house a do whatever she wants. No one is stopping her.

Why do lefties get so angry when they are debating a conservative?

>>16111711
>>16111730
That is a very interesting critique. Do you think Atwood is self-aware in some of those themes, or just unconsciously expressing them?

I have wondered myself whether a lot of female political involvement is actually a cynical maneuver to gain a slightly more privileged position over other women after a power shift. There are the obvious Serena-like ultra-conservative women who could make their own subjugation work for them. Then there are intersectional feminists making alliances with every minority group they can, including transsexuals and radical Islam. Are these two groups so different, or are they just betting on different sides to win?

Your point on #metoo reminds me of literal witch-hunting cultures. There is always an ulterior motive, with witchcraft being an official justification. Whether you're in a progressive feminist culture or a conservative religious one, the same behavior is manifest. Maybe it's just part of the human condition.

>>16111442
>white women majority voted for Trump
>women’s primary insult to men these days is to call them a virgin
>who is that majorly support the LGBT+, it’s women
>who are ones pushing an extremely sex positive society, it’s women
>who are the ones pushing for sexual freedom on the streets and in every home, it’s women

Women are simply reaping the rewards of the seeds they sowed. So yes, youve fucked things up for everyone, and now you want to push the blame on someone else? How typically women of you.

>>16111718
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.
Basically if you are a feminist who doesn't treat transwomen exactly like biological women, then you are called a terf.

>>16111721
I could see it going either way. Muslim immigrants only breed above replacement in the first generation. After that they drop below replacement, just like the native Westerners.
In any case, the more devoutly religious people have more children than anyone else, so they will likely inherit whatever is left of civilization.

>>16111834
I imagine these women are much more motivated by not letting trannies enjoy the privileges of being a woman (and not letting the influx of trannies inflate the exchange value of women and their sexuality) than by having anything concrete against them on a moral or theoretical level.

>>16111822
wow the latest season of chuck is looking good

imagine if the whole feminist movement of the last century crashes because men subconsciously start dominating women by becoming better at being women than women themselves.

>>16111724
Suppose that does happen; would it even be the same Islam that came in? The Persians were totally conquered by Muslims, but they just made their own version of Islam.

>>16111442

It's quite a complicated situation
Like pretty much everything the information age has basically flipped the whole situation on its head
It's both brought to light many new things that may have always been happening who knows as well as created many new problems
To put it simply too much communication too much ease of access
The single most important thing to understand is that women have by and large commodified themselves perhaps willingly or perhaps not it matters little this is the state we are in now and of course in the capitalist system commodification is empowering and limiting at once

>>16111822
That colour palette is really crappy. I get that they're going for the THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS look but this is just bad.

>>16111854
We are walking into a world where prisons will no longer be gender based.

>>16111727
Area where masks are strictly enforced will surely suffer a heavy psychological toll. Has anyone really changed their sexual behavior all that much though? I heard that tindr usage was higher than ever.

>>16111581
>horrifying
Women being impregnated instead of working office jobs is horrifying?

>>16111467
>Pornography and transsexualism were feminist pet projects
They were somebody’s pet projects

>>16111733
While also shaming those who are not having sex, either by choice or not.

>>16111742
Where is it coming from then. Explain.

>>16111747
This is all post 9-11 though. The article you linked to was published in 2015, after the Charlie Hebdo attacks. I don't think Islam was high on the agenda in 1985 when Atwood wrote the Handmaid's tale. If she wanted to set it in a Muslim culture, she could have without any serious repercussions.

>>16111782
Is Karenism a defensive response then? Maybe Karens are just women ahead of the curve, who can see that they are losing.

>>16111989
>If she wanted to set it in a Muslim culture, she could have without any serious repercussions.

VERY optimistic. Though I'll give you that setting it in a christian setting was just too good an opportunity to pass up anyway - it makes for good propaganda for her side while also being much more familiar to its intended audience.

>>16111789
The least they could do is shave their ankles.

>>16111806
>I do honestly do not understand pic related.
I think she is just triggered by her parents wanting her to have children.
>She also can simply leave her parents house a do whatever she wants.
That would require personal responsibility.

>>16112005
I don’t think you understood my point.

Karenism is a direct attack on any white women that the left disagrees with.it outgrew the meme. We’ve already seen this in the current political scene.

>>16111810
Because they are not just debating ideas, they are starting from different moral priors. Everything one says is just plain evil to the other.

>>16111827
It's almost like they want to be oppressed and this is all an elaborate setup. The BDSM game leaking out of the dungeon and into real life.

>>16111742
I actually think it is coming from Doctor's and medicine looking to make a profit on anything they can. Big pharma already cashes in from drugs, some proven harmful, but many don't do anything or very little, especially when weighed against the cost. What better way for surgeons and hospitals to make some extra income than to reassign peoples gender? Give them some antidepressants, give them hormones, put them under the knife, give them more antidepressants etc. etc.

>>16111854
>not letting the influx of trannies inflate the exchange value of women and their sexuality
I could see that as a motivation, but it would take a lot of trannies to change the sexual value of women. Right now they are a fraction of a percentage of the population.

>>16111856
Kek. Chuck and Sarah find a time machine and get stuck in the middle-ages.

>>16111861
>dominating women by becoming better at being women than women themselves
This could actually happen in corporate hierarchies. If you're not allowed to discriminate between women and transwomen, then any measure designed to bring women into top positions would have to apply to men who identify as women.
Given time, the trannies replace all the women in executive positions. Boards of directors will be half men and half transwomen.

>>16111878
>in the capitalist system commodification is empowering and limiting at once
So higher intensity capitalism would lead to more commodification of women then? Information technology would surely reduce value through market saturation then. That would explain Tindr and OnlyFans.
What happens when the human value can be automated though? Today it's Projekt Melody, tomorrow there could be sex robots indistinguishable from the human body.

>>16111854
>than by having anything concrete against them on a moral or theoretical level.
wrong, the second they started giving women's athletic scholarships to men in tights is the moment this entire "movement" lost all credibility.

If they really are a woman in a mans body they would just dress and act like it and no one would notice. It's the forced "everyone else must act differently around me because I am different" mentality that is fucking stupid. We do not have to participate in your mental illness anymore than we do for that of a schizo.

>>16111727
where did these sentiments come from? Has Freud unleashed a demon on us? Is life in a monastery not worth living?

>>16111510
>Was transsexualism a feminist project?

Started by the same people that co-opted Feminism in the 60's. So while not 'officially' feminist, it was the same group of social engineers offstage.

>>16111528
>You all act like there was some feminist conspiracy or agenda but really if you ask ten feminists what feminism is you'll get ten different answers.

Because women say whatever they think will benefit them most at the moment.

>>16111442
Sounds like the bitch needs a good dickin' is all.

>>16112149
>We do not have to participate in your mental illness anymore than we do for that of a schizo.
This.

>>16111727
>No human being can go through that

>>16112072

>>16111882
They were trying to make everything look drab and oppressive. You're right this can often serve as an excuse for poor production.
It stands in stark contrast to the film adaptation, which has a much more vivid sunny palette.

>>16111887
We're already there in some places.

>>16111442
I honesty wait for quality realistic sex bots. and let girls fuck their moms and dads.

>>16111989
did houllebecq not do precisely that?

>>16111727
>Sexologist
Of course she's saying that she has bullshit to sell, how is she supposed to make money telling people about sex if no one is having sex? Learn some critical thinking beyond "women are whores"

>>16111929
No, fertility cults where women are broodmares for the state is horrifying. Although also aesthetically interesting I'll admit.

>>16111943

>>16111861
It will be a variety of factors.

Semen retention by high value males is going to crush them.

So you have a number of things eroding their movement from opposite ends.

Males low in character and self-restraint end up opting out by being a tranny. Males high in character and self-restraint opt out by becoming celibate, getting sex robots, or buying young brides from third world countries.

If you think the women hitting the wall are screeching now, just wait 5 years.

>>16112010
>VERY optimistic
Again, I'm talking about 1985. Different time.
>setting it in a christian setting was just too good an opportunity to pass up anyway
This makes more sense. This was the same time that Reagan was mopping up the Evangelical vote. Precursor to the 90s culture wars.

>>16112037
Why do the right-wing embrace it so much then? Are they just useful idiots?

>>16112248
why are you seething

>>16112315
Modern liberalism outside of it's extreme fringes which are largely rejected by the majority (think TERFS, but there's others), is actually pretty sexist/racist/bigoted, they cover it up in a front of wokeness. Right wingers are just more open about it.

>>16112327
>oh look a woman said something
>women are hivemind and it confirms my biases so this statement must apply to all women, no reason to consider why this individual woman might have said it, women aren't really people

>>16112060
This is actually the most terrifying possibility. If transition becomes a consumer product, then marketing science will be applied to it. They will be actively trying to make more people trans.
This speaks to >>16111854 about sexual value inflation. if it is disproportionately MTF treatments being marketed, then there will be a skewed gender ratio.

>>16112342

>>16112359
Yes. I'm sorry.

>>16112170
Freud himself admitted that art comes from sexual repression, but then advocated against sexual repression. A world without beauty.
Life in a monastery would be great for the right sort of person if it is a good monastery.

>>16112173
Thanks anon. Can you name any in particular so I can research them?

>>16112176
This.

>>16112368
>Freud himself admitted that art comes from sexual repression, but then advocated against sexual repression
first part is true and it's way older than Freud but I'm pretty sure he didn't advocate against sexual repression, he made vows to remain in celibacy after some point in his life and advocated a healthy mix of repression and liberation in "Civilization and its Discontents"

>>16112178
Perhaps she is afraid the trannies will take that from her too. What with all the trap fetishism going around.

>>16111827
>the women who voted for trump are the same women support LGBT and sex positive society
Whatever you say anon

>>16112179
I can sympathize with the statement, but how exactly do you set the criteria for what is a mental illness. What we consider mentally ill is always changing and is not culturally neutral.

>>16112207
Based volcel.

>>16112315
Embrace what exactly? Karenism started on the left. It doesn't matter if Karens are left or right wingers.

>>16112389
literally more feminine than most women. Probably got rejected for looking like a 14 year old girl

>>16111442
Retards that believe in a tranny menace just need to click off Twitter and the problem will be gone in a second.

>>16112396
idk man cutting off your fully functioning body parts seems like mental illnes to me. I remember as a kid I once saw a documentary abouut people who self mutilated their arms, legs etc. with the help of liquid nitrogen and I thought they were mentally ill, this trans stuff is pretty much the same

>>16112208
You a tranny?

>>16112240
>I honesty wait for quality realistic sex bots
It would end incel violence, so maybe it is a good thing.
>and let girls fuck their moms and dads.
WTF would they do that?

>>16112389
that trannie is flatter than the wall behind her

>>16112244
Right before 9-11, yes. That's why he is seen as prophetic by many.

Women want to be the attractive man's toy.

>>16112267
>Semen retention by high value males is going to crush them.
True, retention is a must. Balzac went a step further by edging when he started work each day, while avoiding ejaculation.
>Males low in character and self-restraint end up opting out by being a tranny.
That sounds like a very extreme response, but nothing would surprise me at this point.

>>16111660
Except when the tough times quickly end and then we inevitably slide right back to the left and beyond, as always.

>>16112335
I agree, but what does either side get out of that? Are the right-wingers just cynically going along with it because they know it will reduce the status of women?

>>16112366

>>16111827
This is essentially correct. You can be a contrarian all you want, but progressive social policies with regards to women are always ultimately driven by and for women. They fucked themselves.

>>16111442
This is the equivalent of pointing at the current state of the alt right and going “we are living in the most racist era since world war two”. Its just a faux boogieman with just enough real to rile up a move further to the left. It’s standard eternal-enemy politics.

>>16112516
>imagine finding this funny

Although I’d like to believe that the female genitalia becoming permanently warped due to a lifetime of poor romantic decisions is only a myth, I think browsing 4chan has legitimately led to me becoming insecure at the idea of sleeping with someone who has slept with a large number or other men. I wouldn’t even care if she slept with other women.

>>16112384
True, but relative to the standard of his time this made him a libertine. In any case, I'm not sure how healthy this balanced approach really is. So many of the greatest people in history were sexually contained. Doesn't it make sense to imitate them as best you can, especially if you love literate and art.

>>16112541
>I think browsing 4chan has legitimately led to me becoming insecure at the idea of sleeping with someone who has slept with a large number or other men

Depends on your reasoning. If you're looking for a relationship, you should definitely be worried since increased sexual partners correlates with lack of long-term relationships.

Girls are hedonists and their enemy is boredom, effort, risk, danger.
Fortunately, men are desperate enough to feel relevant, dutiful, respected, valued so they are pushy enough to try to be noticed by women (because they fail to be relevant beyond women). and sooner or later, they cracks the bf-shield

Women know that chads and other robots are willing to help them, to have an easy life. The natural problem of women is that they get bored sooner or later with whoever choose to try to entertain them.
So women change their partners to avoid the rut and to create drama. men do not like to be changed, since they loved to be relevant for once in their life, they whine and hate women when women find other providers.
Of course, changing partners constantly becomes a bore too, so they want some fixed men in their life to give them emotional and material support, Rarely sex because women know that, no matter how good the lover is, it gets boring sooner or later.
When they are replaced, men become resentful towards women, since they lose the validation of their existence. They pretend that they can live without women and that they even are better than women, smarter, stronger (in forgetting that women do not need to be so, because men want to be so in place of women)

Knowing that they are not able to stop loving to be supported by men, Women love also to think that they need no man and that they live to help others >muh compassion. This is part of the tactic to enhance their pleasures: women think that they are good people in society, only to feel even more raw, more animal, more of a little minx, typically in private, when they are fucked properly by some beta ready to serve them sexually.

>>16111442
>From the leader of the free world’s long history of sexual assa
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh women are so fucking dumb

>>16112563
>girls are hedonists
>men aren't hedonists
Take a look at gay men and try to say this again.

Men have to overcome the evolutionary pressure of compensating for their flaws to attract a mate. The entire academia is literally built on the fact that the nerd couldn't get enough sex so he compensated by building up his intelligence expecting to win the hearts of society with a major invention and therefor of women through his reputation, and not through the standard alpha male characteristics. If science wasn't all about reputation, then how come there's literally not a single anonymous paper ever released "for the sake of science" and it's all a backstabbing shitfest of who gets to be the big boy who'll get the ovations - why's it all about reputation and that alone?

Women on the other hand do not think like this. They can get sex right on demand when they're 12, 13, 14, 15, up to 50 and probably beyond. The only issue with them is whether their mate is attractive according to their perceived values. So what they do is they build on the values that they seek, like for an example a girl who wants to marry a smart guy to not disappoint her family will most likely go for a phd, one that wants to marry a businessman alpha male type of guy will most likely go for an mba, and so on but will never actually tryhard for reputation because think about it - a half-assed PhD is more than enough to attract the most successful modern scientist as long as she's not fat, while tryharding it and trying to replicate what males do will only increase the quantity of such males who'll chase her which is pointless because 1 is sufficient, at the cost of literally wasting her life in a frenzied obsession to do it.

Now keep in mind I'm not actually a feminist trying to justify why women underperform like this, in fact I'm the opposite of a feminist, but this is simply the truth. They can be as smart as us if they tried. They don't try because we don't put that pressure on them and there's no reason to try.

>>16112393
Different groups, but both working toward lowering their own status, just in different ways.

>>16112454
>talks not stop about equality and racism

>Yass girl we in control over white women now, we the oppressors now bitchhhh

God dammit I hate niggers sometimes.

>>16112415
I'm saying that members of both sides are embracing the meme, even though they ostensibly want different gender politics to prevail. It must therefore appeal to some desire that one or both sides do not admit to.

>>16112393
Just as >>16112583 said. I make no claim that the women in either of those groups are the same, but they both aided in their own frustrations

>>16112420
That is a very extreme example though. Most don't pass well.

>>16112570
this is your brain on evo psych

>>16112454
>Ariana Grande
>White

>>16112570
>then how come there's literally not a single anonymous paper ever released "for the sake of science" and it's all a backstabbing shitfest of who gets to be the big boy who'll get the ovations
Well the Satoshi white paper is considered anonymous, and a gift to humanity, but I don't think one exception makes the rule here.

>>16112424
For the time being, yes. There is a question of institutional power, however.

>>16112583
What can a woman even do to heighten the status of women in a way that benefits them?

>>16112424
you're projecting your own twitter-centric life, some of us have to work and go to school with them

>>16112427
Yes, I agree that cutting off your cock is mentally ill. It's not enough to just agree on it though. Doctors need a standard by which to diagnose mental illness.

>>16112668
>>16112427
This so much. I have no problem with traps, but the people who self-mutilate because other people told them it was the only way to be happy are just sick. They have been taken advantage of by other sick people. Body acceptance is the only way.

>>16112464
True, and there are not enough attractive men to go around. That explains feminism and incels. Where trannies come from and why they are fighting with terfs is more of a mystery.

>>16112696
>Where trannies come from and why they are fighting with terfs is more of a mystery.
They think they'll gain value on the sexual market by "becoming" women since they had low or non-existent value as ugly men. This would also explain why they seethe and screech "transphobia" when lesbians don't want to grind groins with them.

>>16112641
is evo psych the best way to pull theories for everything completely out of your ass without the need for prior knowledge? How is it any different from assigning a pantheon of gods to natural phenomena?

>>16112444
>It would end incel violence, so maybe it is a good thing.
How violent are incels? There has been two or three attacks done by incels far as I know, and even then I would say that cause was mental illness, and not the celibacy. Telling women that men are violent because lack of attention from them is weirdest attempt of flattery in my opinion.

>>16112505
If you're going by a rise and collapse theory, then is it reasonable to assume that the higher peaks will produce greater falls? If so, then we are heading for peak patriarchy.

>>16112522
>They fucked themselves.
They do it so consistently, I wonder if there is some unconscious drive that requires collapse and rebirth. Has anyone written about this, beyond the basic Freudian death-drive?

>>16112538
This is true of the alt-right. Unlike the alt-right, however, the transgender activists are at least tangentially on the same side as the terfs. They are both supposed to be about equality. For them to fight each other there must be more at stake than just the need to create an enemy.

>>16112552
*literature and art

>>16112718
exactly

>>16112718
>How is it any different from assigning a pantheon of gods to natural phenomena?
evo psych is seen as a elite and legit field in all the prestigious universities.

>>16112444
I blame parents for the absolute autism of their daughters. protected from reality they grow absolutely detached from reality.

have you seen kittens playfully bite each other? they learn respect, private space. same do children in kindergarten, they learn to respect borders of personality. narcissism is about ignoring those borders. women who were not punished for narcissistic behavior become heavily toxic. fucking morality, overprotective daddies create abominable clowns with makeup and vagina.

>>16112561
No hymen, no diamond. Anything else is asking to be taken to divorce court and sucked dry.

>>16111442
hopefully. women should be submissive. congrats their shitshow turned around on them and now theyre shitting their pants. meanwhile men have been getting shit on for the duration and havent said anything. somethings got to give, SOMETHINGS GOT TO GIVE.

>>16112567
Yes.

>>16112569
Well the bottoms take it like a woman, so it's not surprising that they would be similar to them. Not sure about the tops.

>>16111470
Being a handmaid isn't so bad, considering the purpose is to prevent the end of the human race. Sometimes a bit of self-sacrifice is thrust upon you by fate. If you're a woman, would you rather be a handmaid or a soldier in the trenches of WWI? Women have it pretty easy.

>>16111442
I do pity feminists. They sincerely thought that the neoliberal order was on their side. It's blatantly obvious at this point that feminism was just a flavor of the month social cause, and nothing more.

>>16111517
>It's a hamfisted allegory for the Iranian revolution
Total nonsense.

>>16112610
That's what it was always about.

>>16112646
What is she anyway? Honestly can't tell.

>>16112649
The exceptions are probably autistic men who don't even notice women.

>>16111442
>NOOOOO TRANNIES ARE GETTING MORE ATTENTION THAN ME
did not read her books
did not watch her movies
not going to listen to her whining
simple
fucking
as

>>16112656
It depends on the woman. Women only benefit from having lower status to the extent that they are desired by men. If a woman is not desirable for whatever reason, then raising the status of women allows her to compete.

>>16112657
Women now have to share locker-rooms with them in some places.

>>16112691
You still need a standard to decide what is mentally ill though. If you're going to intervene in someone's behavior, then it can't be arbitrary.

>>16112714
Interesting. Couldn't they grind groins with each other?

>>16111442
The saturation of porn can only be great for women. Now a young girl can buy a house just getting naked on a webcam.

>>16112859
The M word

I am so goddamn tired of hearing about everyone’s hot take on sex and sexual behavior. What’s worse is I can’t help but become drawn to every fucking discussion I see about it, literally like a moth to a flame.

>>16111442
I swear she's halfway to being based.

five fucking years and theyre still clinging to that "they let you grab them by the pussy" FIVE YEARS and it literally does not even describe rape. five years. women are fucking retarded.

>>16112859
a goddess

>>16112389
>anything jump out as being masc?
The fucking Adam's apple for one

Trannies possess a very destructive power, and that is that they undermine the legitimacy of any movement/subculture/fandom they become associated in, because deep down no one takes those mentally ill freaks seriously. Why do you think there's all those articles pushing that Hitler/Nazis were trannies? It's to delegitimatize Nazism as a serious ideology and by proxy to delegitimatize neo-nazis/white supremacists/alt-right by proxy. The same happened with Nick Land and Accelerationism, it was gaining traction here and on Twitter, then the trannies hijacked it, shitted out g/acc and everyone stopped taking them seriously. Don't you see the potential here? Trannies are undermining feminism just by associating themselves with it. Women, who are more attuned to social shit by nature, are realizing that trannies are wrecking their movement so that's why they're turning into TERFs. We can use PCness to our advantage by shaming TERFs so trannies make feminism collapse.

>>16113055
Kaliacc is fun tho

>>16113058
What about it is fun?

>>16112985
Actually saturation is bad for women because it increases competition. What we really need though is for a strong digital libertarian movement to push back against Patreon/OnlyFans/PixivFanbox. Information wants to be free bitches.

>>16111442
She's literally old enough to remember seeing women groped on TV without backlash so no.

>We're living through the most misogynistic period I've experienced. Back in the 80s, I imagined that if I raised my daughters to be irresponsible whores who fucked around for their entire twenties and only started thinking about settling down with a man around thirty, everything would be fine. I like promiscuity and limitless liberalism for women but I don't like porn or men's sexuality. I just want women to be free to act however they want all the time and then for men to cash the check and pay for all the damage. Why have things gotten so bad?? I thought "DO WHATEVER YOU WAAAAANT, WOOOOOOO I HAVE A CUNT, THAT GIVES ME CARTE BLANCHE" was a perfectly good philosophy to live by!! How can this be happening? I didn't understand that following the radical liberalism taught to me by GRRRL POWER consumer media, rather than promoting a feminism based on self-respect and achievement, would result in women being disrespected as frivolous hedonistic retards!

Fuck I hate women. They really are big children. They don't even know what taking responsibility is. They shouldn't be allowed to talk until they've passed some kind of test that proves they can hold their own with men. The average women is on the level of a 12 year old boy in terms of maturity.

>>16111517
Yeah, but Iranian women are better off under Shia theocracy than under Shah's regime, that's just a fact. From age expectancy to the access to the higher education - Iran became a better place to live.

>>16113035
Ariana Grande always seemed too childlike for me to be attracted to her. Perhaps it is a mental leftover from her Nickelodeon days.

>>16112914
>Whichever
>implying the gender spectrum is discrete rather than continuous

I am convinced that heavy Twitter usage fries your brain. It makes you incapable of seeing things as they really are. We need some real studies done on the effects of Twitter on the individual and society.

>>16113064
Being a massive faggot

>>16112721
Fair point. It might also make them happier.

>>16113090
>Weltanschauungskrieg
Germans figured it out long ago

Why most people complaining about this hasn't read still today fates of empires and the collapse of the west?

Is there any diference between the collapse of modern secularism and liberalism with any other civilization collapse in history?

It's always the same shit, civilization peaks, then start to reject religion and people become liberal and hedonistic, eventually feminism appear, then later gay shit start to also appear, people stop having children, the tax base from the empire decreases, the empire starts flooding their cities with foreigners who then buy their citizenship.
Eventually they start asking for more welfare, then the goverment has to start taxing.
Everything then starts to decline very fast, until society breaks down and the empire is defeated by some barbarians.
Civilization collapses into a civil war era, where the cycle of a new civilization starts.

Is there something new about this today?

Gender roles for thee but not for me. Otherwise you're a misogynist moid.

>>16113074
Do you have any sources on that? I ask this unironically because I am an Iranian-American who has taken trips to Iran several times and seen for myself how bizarre romance and dating is for these majorly repressed men and women.

>>16112782
>>16112794
Evopsych is a symbol system for the same things as religion. You have to test it with evobio if you want to call it a science.

>>16113090
It's the perfect platform for information overload. The character limit ensures that longer, more well-reasonable opinions are unwieldy, forcing people to simplify. On top of this, the need to be liked and shared ensures that incendiary opinions are made and distributed. Finally, the feed format allows one to turn off their brain and just soak in countless opinions. It reminds me of the Rat Utopia experiments, where the pheromone overload led to the colony's collapse.

>>16113123
Because the last part of this apparently universal cycle only ever happens in the west.
Also christianity is a foreign religion anyway. I find it hard to get worked up about its decline. Everything great about it came from Rome and the Greeks anyway.

>>16111442
Turns out feminism isn't good for women. Who'd have thought it?

>>16111442
She's so danm cute. I want her to my "mommy" so badly

>>16113136
Man I want to fuck an Iranian so badly. How hard is it to do this without getting beheaded?

>>16111442
Yes. But you can thank the destruction of gender roles for it.

>>16113136
Mind sharing more about how dating is like in Iran?

>>16111517
>implying it isn’t BASED

>>16112722
whats going on in this picture and why is that dude so manly

>>16113143
I don't follow your reply.

do u mean this cycle hasn't happened in places like the chinese, japanese, egyptian dynasties as well?

I'm 100% sure the west is on their declining stage, while modern china is now in the middle of their commerce era, and I'm sure this century they will enter their golden age era.

India seems stuck in the last stages of their warrior stage.
Russia seems also entering their commerce stage.
Dunno about latinoamerica, they seem to be finishing their warrior stage and entering their commerce stage.
Africa seems still on the warrior stage, and are like beggining to enter their commerce stage thanks to china.

>>16112803
I have actually thought about this in a more blatant way. Boys hit each other when they cross boundaries, so you learn to respect each other. Boys are also heavily punished for hitting a girl, and the girls use more passive aggression against each other. They have no mechanism to learn to respect others.

>>16113171
They have not imported foreigners, etc. Especially Japan.
Secondly, Chinese culture is just a leftover Faustian culture at this point. There is no rejuvenation.

>>16111517
>she was too timid to take on Islam
It was mostly because she wanted to complain about Ronald Reagan but he hadn't like, done anything even in America much less in Canada so she just copy-pasted the ayatollahs onto the United States.

>>16113171
>>16113123

Civilization collapse is a meme. It happened exactly once in history, and the world is very different now. (I'm talking about the Late Bronze Age collapse.) People who predict it in our future are being wishful thinkers.

>>16113179
There's a big push for japan to import foreigners.
They have a declining demographics, which japanese are aware, but they're trying to fix it with automation.

The west tries to solve their demographics issue with inmigration.

>Chinese culture
I think their cultural roots hasn't been destroyed.
I think marxism worked nice in China because their culture is basically very comunistic.
Asians don't like individualism too much, that's why marxist works there.
A bugmen utopia only can works in bugmen societies.

>>16113193
I think they don't mean in the sense of late bronze collapse, but more like the declining and collapse of some empire.

Which has happened a shit ton of times.
Even 80 years ago the world saw the collapse of most european empires in two wars.

>>16112814
Not just give, but reverse. The greater the hubris, harder the fall.

>>16112928
>it can't be arbitrary
it isn't arbitrary to say it's mentally ill to want to lob off parts of your body so you can sexually satisfy yourself / other people. It's just as sick as saying you want to cut off your hand and remove your arm bone to make a hole for people to fuck.

>>16112714
>This would also explain why they seethe and screech "transphobia" when lesbians don't want to grind groins with them.
Yea, I take the meme that Trans people are just incel-race-traitors lmao

>my imaginary daughters are having a really hard time
So THIS is the power of feminism.

>>16113210
The push for Japan to import foreigners is 1. External and 2. Did not happen in the past.
This part of the cycle cannot be generalised to non western cultures.
With China, there is no Marxism. It's western consumerism as usual. There is only an attempt at putting a face of cultural rejuvenation on a materialistic culture for political reasons.
There is only one global culture at the moment and it is Faustian, and dying.

>>16113153
In Iran? It’s not really that hard, especially if you’re a good looking white guy. Most chicks want to get the fuck out of there so foreigners from Western countries have a HUUGE sexual advantage over native Iranians.

>>16113160
Since nobody except married couples (but even then it’s extremely obscene) can engage in any public displays of affection without risking getting into some serious trouble, everything is done as discretely as possible. For example, guys will carry around written down copies or their cell phone numbers and then place them in a chicks hand as they walk past them. Or in some cases, guys will drive past girls and flirt with them, then the chicks get in the car’s backseat and have the men drive them to the next block or wherever while they converse (or get raped). Also, young women would pile on insane amounts of makeup and make it so their hair would look HUGE behind the hijab. Evidently the bigger the bulge, the sluttier they were (or the more effective the peacocking would be). Drugs were also very popular. Basically, the men and women were doing everything they could come up with to bypass the laws in order to attract each other. The more creative and the more audacious the better. Sky was the limit as long as you didn’t get caught.

>>16113235
>It doesn't apply to china

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6QYPzF2TI

>>16112836
A lot of women would hate it. Ironically, this is precisely why they will die out, as modern society allows them not to breed above replacement. The very freedoms they fought for are the reason that the Serena types will inherit the earth.

>>16113253
I love how the next generations women will be the offspring of the most traditional and conservative females.

>>16113252
I think your response would make more sense if you read properly first.

>>16112848
>They sincerely thought that the neoliberal order was on their side
Did they really think it was? A lot of feminists identify as Marxists or at least very left-wing. Surely part of that is the realization that the market will support whoever is the best consoomer.

>>16113268
t. hasn't watched the video

>>16113261
There won't be many more generations.

>>16112859
She is Italian but tans heavily

>>16113272
Yeah, it says we live in an advanced industrialized economy that doesn't depend on people foraging through weeds to find food and medicine

>>16113277
Mormons are breeding like rabbits as I type this shitpost

>>16113277
lmao retard.

All the fundamentalist religious groups like amish, fullquivers, mormons, islamists.

They're having 5-6 children on average.
Amish population doubles every generation (20 years).

lmao

>>16112849
I wouldn't be so sure. Not just Iran, but a lot of the Islamic world has undergone a process of systemically rejecting liberal values and looking to religious authority to replace them. Gilead is just the USA going the same way.

>>16113273
No, because I've already seen it and know it doesn't apply to what I was actually talking about.

>>16112899
Based answer.

>>16113285
>>16113287
And what do you think the earth is going to be like in a hundred years? The US is on trajectory to completely fucking shit itself and the planet is becoming more hostile to life in case you haven't noticed.
Literally none of these "we'll just wait the libs out lmao" strategies are going to win any prizes except a big fucking Darwin award.

>>16112988
Mexican?

>>16113294
wanna make another claim how our era is "unique" and we're living the last times?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

It's getting kind of boring to hear this argument, since the birth of christ.

>>16113317
the west will collapse and be replaced by the BRICS.

>>16113287
Dude, you should see the outside of a Coptic church during service. The whole sidewalk is packed with baby strollers. Every woman has 3-5 kids. Meanwhile the Catholic church has a half dozen old white people, and maybe a couple hispanic families.

>>16113326
yeah, white people wont die out, Ironically america will be the most populated white nation in 50 years, simply because It has like 4 fundamentalist white religious groups that have realized they just need to outbreed the liberals.

>>16113013
What made you drawn to it in the first place? Is there some answer you're looking for?

>>16113317
>the planet is becoming more hostile to life in case you haven't noticed

Actually I haven't noticed. Seems exactly the same to me.

>>16113326
>coptic
>white

>>16113340
now compare the chart to things like money and status, faggot.

women don't seek males because they're good looking.

>>16113334
>they just need to outbreed the liberals.
That'll be easy

>>16113342
>he says, in the midst of the biggest pandemic in 100+ years.

>>16113343
I thought we were talking about the resurgence of traditional values as hedonic abortionists die off. Who gives a shit about white people.

>>16113350
sure, compare republican birth rate versus democrats.

that's why the strategy of democrats is to import non whites.

>>16113024
Nowhere near based. She is just salty that her gender is no longer the one that people simp for.

>>16113320
>BRICS
is this the new axis? If it is, which one is the Italy analogue

>>16113352
>gain of function research that leaked out of a third world lab is somehow related to climate change

oooh kay.

>>16113320
Again, I recommend you work on your basic reading comprehension. I made no apocalyptic claims at all.
I stated that your claims to do with specific methods of collapse cannot be generalised to non western cultures, which do not share the western obsession with immigrants, and which did not share feminism cycles, religious issues, etc. but I did not claim that any culture was exempt from this cycle.
I also claimed that modern "Chinese" culture has just been absorbed by a near global Faustian culture, and you seem to think this is somehow an apocalyptic claim.
If this is still somehow confusing, remember you don't have to reply.

>>16113026
It was funny though. I don't mind if they want to keep bringing it up.

>>16113340
I guess. I’m not a bad looking guy and I’ve had plenty of romantic/sexual experiences, but I am 29 years old, still living at home, still working a low-wage job, and still trying to get my degree. Most chicks that are attracted to me at first lose interest rather quickly after they figure out how unstable my life is. I guess I peruse these threads looking for some sort of hope given my current situation, but ultimately the answer is always the same.

I’m just not attractive enough to get women to fuck me without meeting their social expectations.

>>16113388
The thing about Biden getting nominated is that #metoo got cancelled. Now that they nominated a cop as VP, BLM better hope they don't get cancelled next.

>>16113048
Never even noticed that. Are you some sort of tranny-spotter?

>>16113396
>I am 29 years old, still living at home, still working a low-wage job, and still trying to get my degree
Remember kids, the women telling you to "have sex" are fucking this guy, ha ha.

>>16113370
not sure what you mean by Italy analogue.

BRICS are the rising star, China is the economic powerhouse, while Russia are the military and nuclear power to stop the US.
India is a future global power simply because of demographics.
South africa is the representative of Africa and Brazil is also the representative of Latinoamerica.

So, basically BRICS (and the rest of third world shitholes they represent), has the same economic power than the west.
The issue is that BRICS have their demographics still fine, and africa still have decades of demographic growth.

The west is rich, sure, but they're becoming old.
So basically the fight is between an old 50 years old dude fighting a 20 years old rising star.

>>16113380
History doesn't repeat, but often rhymes anon.
The cycles happens in every civilization, but it simply rhymes.

>>16113396
>I’m just not attractive enough to get women to fuck me without meeting their social expectations.
If your only goal is to fuck and move on then you are as much of a problem as them. The goal is to find a partner, a best friend, that you can weather everything with and build a life into old age, making children to pro-generate your species.

>>16113411
It's easy.

>>16113424
>not sure what you mean by Italy analogue.
The country that contributes basically nothing, gets saved by the Germany analogue, then kills their leader and changes sides

>>16113438
that sounds like japan right now.

>>16111470
>Her premise of a fertility crisis may not be realistic though, given that the population is higher than ever.
Maybe it's based on the low fertility among Roman citizens and the whole reforms made by Augustus.

>>16111517
>Iran was a secular modern state
Iran was a dictatorship controlled by a small group that sold the country and let SAVAK, CIA, MI6 and Mossad free to rape, torture and murder everybody.

>>16113319
Mutt

>>16113055
Isn't g/acc a lot older than that though? I'm sure Sadie Plant has been working on it for decades.