/lit/ - Literature

>>16096001
uni classes

>>16096001
Pinsleur courses are great, also buy a textbook with grammar and vocabulary. If language is european buy european books, US language books sucks. Also tons of YT videos.

>>16096001
Classroom environment is obviously best but if you don't have access to that then I'd say fluenz. Using it now and finding it helpful. Duolingo is really overrated and rosettastone is not rigorous enough. Learning a language is like losing weight, if it was easy everyone would do it and if it feels easy you aren't trying hard enough

Obviously whatever you choose as a platform, if you want to be really good you need to support your study with real interaction in the target language. An easy way to do this is just to consume some media (tv, music, and obviously texts). With covid it's probably not possible, but in my city there are happy hour events where new speakers of a language are encouraged to come in and chat with native speakers and other learners. You can also get your own group together

Or just get a non-english gf lol

if you use anki every day youll be surprised how much progress you make. The trick to language learning is just to do it everyday anon.

>>16096053
Isn't Primselur expensive as shit? Or is it possible to just pirate the courses?
I don't have hundreds of dollars to expend on that, if I had I would just sign up to some community classes.

>>16096107
this. don't fall for retard temptation to overburden yourself and burn yourself out. just do it every day. a bit of anki, a bit of immersion.

I'm currently trying to learn French through reading and looking up words in the dictionary

I rushed through the French course in Duolingo with anki until I got burned out
Then, I switched to fairy tales and started building up from there with anki while listening to french music

>>16096012
>>16096101
classroom environment is very suboptimal if you have an IQ above 90

Use Duolingo and Anki while listening to music and/or youtube videos in the language of choice. When about 2/3 done with Duolingo, start with the easier literature.
Has worked for German and Turkish.

>>16096001
I'm looking to pick Latin back up (I left it at A-Level) and was wondering what Apps or learning tools people would recommend?

>>16096267
Absolutely agreed. Anyone saying classroom is ideal as obviously never "actually" learned a language. Classroom teaching in high school/university avoids real conversation with natives almsot deliberately, and the only gains you would make are due to memorizing on your own.

So... memorize on your own and go use italki 2-3 times a week. It's easier if you're studying a poor people language like Spanish or Portuguese.

>>16096107
do you just make flashcards based on vocab from a textbook or are there pre made ones online?

>>16096316
I would guess making them yourself would be a lot more efficient, but you can always find some online.

>>16096316
I read manga and add every word idk to anki deck and go over the whole deck once a day

>>16096267
>>16096315
Well on its own a classroom environment is obviously insufficient which is why you have to supplement with other work. But that's true of all learning environments, short of just moving to the damn country and living there

The main benefits of a classroom environment are 1) that it forces you to work at a regular pace and 2) that it gets some level of importance in your life agenda. If you just pick it up as a hobby, it is easily overtaken by other tasks/plain inertia, even if you drop a bunch of cash on a learning program

Maybe I just have motivation issues but taking small group classes at uni made it much easier to learn over the course of several years. There is just something about another person expecting my presence that made me actually show up and do the work instead of just falsely telling myself I'd learn some grammar over the weekend

>>16096001
Kindle for its insta dictionary and text to speech, YT vids, a grammar book

The only languages one needs are german and english. German is my first language and the internet taught me english.

>>16096128
>Isn't Primselur expensive as shit
$20/month per language. Pretty reasonable if you have literally any job in the US.

had a dream last night i was trying to talk in german but i couldn't say anything i wanted to say and felt like a retard/fraud. really need to study more.

As for studying methods you'll need at least 1 grammar/workbook to reference. You can spend a few bucks if you're serious, but pirated pdfs should work fine. To start I'll say that duolingo is not good and pretty boring, but it can get you in the habit of daily practice. I'd recommend it as a starting point; get a 90 day streak going or ~1000+ words under your belt then move on.

Other good software:
FLTR (foreign language text reader -- there is another version of this as well)
Deepl (the best translator imo)
anki (look up mattvsjapan, mass immersion approach for guides on how to optimize anki)
lingvist (the course wizard is cool af, but only available in french and spanish atm)
lingq (its like FLTR but not free)

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how much time you spend, how optimized your study is, what software or course you're using, etc. its just about time put in. So measure your progress against the number of hours you've spent actively studying (listening to audio while gaming does not count). 30 minutes a day is probably the absolute bare minimum, but don't expect to get anywhere fast at that rate. 2 hours per day would get you some good results fast, but you might burn out. 1hr per day is doable even for wageslaves, but still requires discipline.

> learn grammar context-free
> brute force memorize vocabulary
> read Wikipedia
> read actual books

Spend 6 hours a day in an online class getting paid by the Army to learn Russian

>>16096001
I have been learning Hispanic for the last two years, still can't read anything in it other than sentences given in Duolingo exercises.

>>16098021
Seriously how? I've been learning Spanish for about a month and a half and I'm slowly making my way through el túnel already.

I do exercises in course textbooks and grammarbooks, read fiction/nonfiction, listen to podcasts and adapted audiobooks. You can find all these things here (torrents from rutracker).
https://pastebin.com/3EWMhSPN

>>16096001
irl exposure, duolingo and anki are for gays

>>16099655
Holy based...thanks anon

>>16096001
Reminder that Duolingo and Rosetta Stone are scams that won't even take you to basic competency. They're designed to load casual learners up with a bunch of preformulated phrases they can string together during their vacation to France of Germany, and do not impart a comprehensive understanding of the language's morphology or syntax.

>>16096053
>>16096128
>>16097613
I have pirated Pimsleur, it has booklets and recordings. Am I missing out on something?

>>16099672
Yeah I'll just head on down to the church to get some Latin exposure on Sun-

Oh wait, churches don't hold Latin mass anymore unless you live in Rome because of the new Pope ruining everything. How silly of me

>>16099713
>Load up Duolingo for Latin
>A lot of the phrases they use talk about America and things that wouldn't have been a part of the language in antiquity
>None of the lessons even go into perfect tense
Yeah, I definitely feel like I got scammed. I was just using it as a supplement while on the toilet anyways, so I don't feel too bad for using it

>>16098021
>hispanic
try again

>>16100483
just get a latin gf how hard is it

>>16100483
agree with you anon but the problems run much deeper than just Francis

Glossika

>>16100643
Yeah, I think Francis is just a symptom of the corruption in the Church. I still think that Ratzinger was forced to abdicate. I have faith that God will correct the Church over time, but it's definitely not in a good spot right now

>>16098021
Hispanic?

What's a really good way to boost vocab? I can read French at a pretty high level, but having to constantly look-up words and idioms (especially this) is slowing me down.

>>16096128
pirate it, mongoloid, it's easy as fuck to find. I'm learning French with it and it's pretty comfy.

Find someone to practice with (no some meme app like duolingo and Rosettstone)
And apply the acquisition method

https://youtu.be/illApgaLgGA

>>16101819
Or even pimslur, all these posts in this thread shows it's iq by trying to learn via textbook

>>16101819
Based

>>16101845
And I salute to you fellow man.
These native English speakers think ESL learned their English via textbook and not video games or YouTube.
What do they think they have? A usb port in their ass that helps then store information?

>>16100643
>>16100657
what's wrong with Francis? I'm honestly asking, I don't know anything about the church, but he looks like a fine chap

>>16098021
what is hispanic

>>16098021
Butterfly is loose again

>>16101931
Francis has tried way too hard to make the church look appealing to people who aren't even Christians. I've lost track of how many times I've heard athiests say something along the lines of "man I'm not really into Christianity, but Francis is such a cool guy! I love him!" That's not a good thing. The chair of St. Peter is supposed to be a burden, and is symbolic of the cross. It's not a popularity contest where you try to get everyone to love you. There's a reason that Jesus said that the world hated him long before it hated you. In trying to appeal to the masses Francis has turned the Church away from a lot of its original values and traditions

>>16099992
Where did you find it? I can't seem to find it anywhere, maybe I am not that good at pirating, I don't know.

>>16096001
I use Google Dictionary with gutenberg.org and https://www.projekt-gutenberg.org/.. I find books on gutenberg and google dictionary helps me find the definition by double-clicking. Pic related.
I use the Chrome extension Language Learning with Youtube which does more or less the same thing but for youtube subs. There is one for Netflix as well but it's not as good.
I've tried FLTR/Lingq in the past and honestly, google dictionary is just way better and easier to use.
So what I recommend is:
Spend a week or two learning grammar. Use duolingo, an online guide, a textbook, you won't learn much so what you use doesn't matter, just experiment a bit. After that, jump straight into reading and look up grammatical concepts that you don't understand. Maybe use wiktionary to look up words you are having trouble with.
This will all help you understand the language but you won't be able to produce it. I've heard Pimsleur is good for this but I haven't used it myself. Your best bet would be to find native speakers or a tutor. Good luck.

>>16103097
I really fucked up writing this but I hope someone finds it useful.

>>16100512
Retard. The Latin Duolingo isn’t even completed yet.
>>16099713
Untrue. If you use the Duolingo courses which are actually completed (Italian eg), you can take yourself to a B2 level providing you study properly. I wouldn’t use it as the main source of learning because I find it boring, but there’s nothing wrong with it in terms of pure language learning.

>>16103013
the piratebay my man (german)

>>16096001
I learned English almost from scratch (starting with what little public education had taught me) with a penpal.

The way I'm learning now is by downloading one of those apps that match you with people who want to learn a language, then tentatively cobbling together shitposts using a combination of machine translation, online dictionaries, grammar references, and common sense.

Most of the time natives have a basic grasp of English, so they can elaborate on their corrections, and answer my questions.
Make sure to keep a list of the words you learned, usage notes and corrections you got from native speakers, and recurrent mistakes.

I'd suggest practicing only reading/writing first, until you have the basic grammar and vocabulary down, and you can infer the meaning of the parts you don't know. In the meanwhile, you can try calling your language-learning bros too and practice pronunciation and listening.

When you reach that point of basic fluency, you can start watching movies and TV series. If you go in cold turkey, you'll have to pause the video every three seconds, and spend minutes looking stuff up.
Make sure both the audio and subtitles are in the target language, or at least the subtitles are. If the subtitles are in a language you know, you won't learn anything.

Also, FUCK memes like Duolinguo and Anki. Grammar references are alright (Z-Library is your friend), but don't autistically fixate on learning all grammar rules before reading. Learning comes with practice, not just study.

>>16097613
Just pirate it instead and put that $20 a month towaed lottery tickets.

>>16096001
I move to the country and begin to seduce schoolgirls.

>>16103236
I only get a course on Spanish when I search Primsleur there, I don't know if I am doing anything wrong or what.

>>16096001
what is a good, methodical way for a structure-obsessed autist to learn a language? I'm not sure where to start, and I like being thorough.

>>16103775
it's P I M S L E U R my man

>>16103807
>write down all the grammatical rules for the language as a list
>learn those rules with the frequency you so desire (I would recommend ~1/week)
>watch one media source in target language/week (i would recommend a TV show because then you don't need to find new shit all the time)
>have a vocab target number of words/week ( i would recommend like 28/week i.e. 4words/day)
>read sources like the newspaper or something in your target language as much as possible
>supplement with duolingo/babbell/some app
>repeat/revisit as needed

all those should get you fluent if you just make sure you consistently do them. the key is to consistently do them though which is the hard part. to stay consistent i would recommend the following tips

>decide if you really want to learn the language or not. whilst you can become fluent without stretching yourself too much, it also requires dedication so you need to decide if you really want to learn the language or its just a kind of "that'd be a cool thing to do type idea in your head."
>aim low. don't chase fluency, first chase being able to say hello to someone and knowing a bunch of basic retarded words like colours. then chase being able to string together maybe a sentence, then try and have a minor conversation, then keep going from there.
>as a follow-on, don't be afraid to be a retard in the language and speak to people as a retard who doesnt really know the language. you'll probably feel anxious as fuck the first time you try to speak to people in the language, don't let that discourage you.
>when you fuck up and stop learning because you're burnt out, and you will get to this point at some stage, pick up from before where you were when you stopped.
>think of the language as a means of communication, not a skill. this is probably the most important one because in English speaking cultures, speaking another language is treated as this amazing skill. it is difficult to learn a language but just remember that its really just a way to talk with someone.

I'd say thats pretty much everything. everything i've ever needed and every difficulty ive come across I'm pretty sure has been contained in that list so just start from the start, stay humble and see how you go.

>>16103856
Kek. Okay I'm retarded. Doubting my ability to even try to learn German now.

>>16096001
>use flashcard software to memorise at least 1k of the most commonly used words in the language you want to learn
>once you get to 1-2k words you should be able to understand basic dialogue in books and television
>practice reading every day until you’ve memorised at least 3k words
>also do stuff like Duolingo and pimsleur if possible, Michel Thomas is also based, everything helps

This will honestly get you 90% of the way to being fluent. At this point, the main thing you’ll still struggle with is actually having a conversation with another person, but you should be able to read, write and generally understand a language to a surprisingly advanced level once you get to a vocab of at least 3k words. The hardest part is getting to the first 1k words, so that you have basic conversational understanding, after that all you have to do to improve is watch tv lol

Here's been my method for french as of lately

1. Read through a chapter of Francais par la method nature while using an audio supplement and repeating the audio, do this for about 3 or so days until I have that chapter down and move on to the next.

2. Listen to an episode of the innerfrench podcast. It's slow speaking podcast that has a different topic every episode so it doesn't get too boring. Very helpful for a beginner to intermediate learner and each episode seems to get a bit more challenging in its vocab and structure.

3. I'll spend about 30 minutes reading something easy enough but with some challenge on readlang. You input a text and creates a deck for the words you can't figure out which utilizes sentence context things like that.

I pick a subject I know by heart and go read its wikipedia page in my target language (assuming it doesn't use its own characters like Japanese or so). I pick up patterns relatively quick.

>>16096299
LINGVA LATINA PER SE ILLVSTRATA I: FAMILIA ROMANA + COLLOQUIA PERSONARVM + EXERCITIA LATINA I + polyMathy YT Channel to learn pronunciation schemes and poetry scanning.

After all of this, you can jump to Amphitryo Comoedia (Plautus) Reader and then go to LLPSI II: ROMA AETERNA. The LLPSI series also has top shelf readers of Cicero and Caesar. Nonetheless, after finishing LLPSI I, the Vulgate and Medieval Latin should be quite easy to read.

>>16100483
You're the perfect example of a LARPer. Churches hold mass in languages that people will actually understand. If you don't even understand what is being said then why would you go to church?

>>16103097
how do you set up the google dic?

Unironically some random person on YouTube. Russian seems interesting to learn.

>>16096001

I'm terrible at learning new languages, but Heinlein and his wife on the other hand are autodidacts and learning new skills is easy for them.

"In the meantime my wife signed up for University of Colorado Extension classes in Russian. She has always believed that anything worth doing at all is worth overdoing; for two solid years she lived and breathed Russian. She never missed a class, was always thoroughly prepared,ersation tutor to supplemnhrlsroom work, bought every brand of russian language instruction records available then, kept them stacked on the record changer and played them all day long while she did other things-our home had a speaker in every room, and a large speaker for the garden.

"(This Did not bother my work; since I knew no Russian then, it was random noise to me.)

"Two years of this and she could read Russian, write Russian, speak Russian, understand Russian-and think in Russian.

"Then we went to the USSR."

From Robert A. Heinlein's anthology of short stories and essays called Expanded Universe

>>16103013
>http://beet.the-eye(dot)eu/public/Random/Pimsleur%20Language%20Pack/Pimsleur%20Languages%20for%20English%20Language%20Speakers/

To those who don't know/haven't done it yet - buy an e-reader. You can get a dictionary from your target lang to your native lang which will help you so much when reading. Write down the words you don't know and then review after you've done reading. I've found it a good supplement to my regular French lessons.

>>16096583
nooo everyone else is stupid and, i, the autodidact, don't need any type of real feedback or interaction with other people to learn to communicate with other people in a different language!

>>16106524

Lose your privacy and you'll get all the feedback you'll ever want.

>>16104947
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/google-dictionary-by-goog/mgijmajocgfcbeboacabfgobmjgjcoja
I'm sure there are similar tools for non-chromium browsers.

>>16104854
The homily is always said in the vernacular in Latin masses, the mass and the prayers are just said in Latin. And these don't vary that much so you quickly pick up the gist if you care enough. >>16104963

>>16103405
What are some apps that let you do that?

>>16107088
HelloTalk has a decent amount of features and userbase. The only downside is that it seems to be a Chinese app.
There's also Amikumu, but it seems to have a smaller userbase and supports fewer languages (the main ones in Europe, plus Chinese, Japanese and Russian).
Other apps I found by searching for "language exchange" are Tandem and Hinative. They seem to be popular and have good reviews, but I haven't tried them personally.
You can also try looking on Reddit for language learning subreddits, join their Discord, and find someone who's willing to talk in DMs.

>>16105553
Cope

>>16104029
great post, thanks anon.

>>16097910
>jump straight into books in languages of your language family
I seriously hope you guys actually do this.