/lit/ - Literature

>>16083731
Arberry's translation is undoubtedly the greatest in English at imitating the style and rhythm of the Qur'an, his introduction explains how important this was in his work, it's very elegant. Biggest drawback is no commentary
For commentary I recommend....

>>16083741
The Hilali-Khan translation. This gets a lot of flak for being "Wahhabi" but as you can see it doesn't actually cite Ibn Abdul Wahhab, just classical scholars and Hadiths. However these can offend modern sensibilities, but they're not Wahhabi

>>16083776

>>16083782

If I convert, can I find a 12 years-old right after without the judgement of society? If so, I'm in

>>16083731
how do you feel about seyyed hossein nasr's "the study quran"

>>16083880
I love it and have it although it has an heretical agenda and isn't non sectarian by any means.

>>16083890
what is its agenda? I don't have the background to pick up on that kind of thing

>>16083971
It's covertly perennialist, overtly in several essays in the appendix, it tries to make Islam seem accepting of all faiths even if critical but Islam isn't at all it just tolerates them if jizya is paid. Also low key very Shi'ite, literally the only Sunni he consulted, Ahmed el-Tayeb, has gone on record urging Sunnis to become Shia. All the numerous other scholars involved, not a single Sunni. Not really in itself surprising, Sunnis don't ask for Shia scholars in their works but it's false advertising to say the translation is non-sectarian. It does often cite scholars esteemed by Sunnis but Sunnis do the same with scholars esteemed by Shia, e.g. Imam Jafar

>>16083731
If you want to get the most out of that desert devil cult you'd be using it as kindling

>>16084133
And what cult do you follow?

>>16084014
okay thanks for the heads-up anon. this is a good thread

>>16083731
>muh context

>>16084339
Happy you like it, I'll think you'll find the Qur'an is actually very far from both the PC conception as well as the madman opportunist conception

>>16084452
Context here isn't about apologism just literally understanding what's being referred to

>>16084469
>Happy you like it, I'll think you'll find the Qur'an is actually very far from both the PC conception as well as the madman opportunist conception
yeah, I've read parts of the oxford translation by haleem (some of the law-related surahs at the beginning, and some of the more poetic ones placed in the end. I especially felt moved by the clot/al-alaq), but there is a big part of the tradition just missing from my understanding. I see if I can pick up some of your recommendations soon
are there any sections that you personally feel are especially important?

>>16084561
He basically works for the government to secularize Muslims

5:44-45 is the most important political statement. Al Kursi is the most important theological verse. Surah 1 is considered the greatest

>hundreds of pages
>repetition of basically the same few things over and over
>doesnt achieve even in those immense pages what the upanishads, chuangtzu or heraclitus does in simply few lines, except for some not so well-known parts, like the lantern thing in surah an-nur, and the line about how that says everything perishes except god's face, because the clerics are too fucking busy about this and that random law cos they dont have the "Soul" (cos almost all of them are fucking HYLICS) that they miss the fish for the lake.
>needs immense commentaries and contexts when the book is already so long, thus the normal muslims cant sift through it by themselves, so HAVE to listen to clerics to get the teachings in bits (clerics are Hylics, so these poor mass got their own hylicism reinforced)
>no islamic 'golden age' will come again, no sufi will be prevalent, no cool thinkers will appear again, everyone tamasized in darkness nowadays, except for the very few that "sees".

>>16085544
Mysticism is about anti authenticity. Meaning you can pretend to follow very sophisticated beliefs while leading a life indistinguishable from the Zeitgeist. Mystics tend to hate Islam because it requires a drastic difference in lifestyle to follow, this is why Sufis marginalize almost all aspects of the life except the daily prayer

>>16085578
Mysticism is practical. It's concerned with contemplative practices, while islam and christcukoldry are about complicated arbitrary beliefs.

>>16085615
Practical? You're very mixed up. Practical is practice, praxis. Contemplation is theoria. These are considered two contrasting ideas from Aristotle through monastics to Marx

>>16085686
You're mixed up little boy.

Mysticism is something you do. Christianity is mostly about beliefs. Contemplative practices are things like meditation.

>>16085830
Meditation is theoria, not praxis. Mystical works like The Ladder of Divine Ascent use the term Theoria to refer to meditation, visions, repetitive prayer, etc

>>16083731
>The best written work is Martin Ling's but I would avoid that as even though he uses old sources he doesn't handle them very critically so it gets a bit outlandish and sensationalist as he includes any material that's old regardless of corroboration or isnad.
He uses one or two stories that aren't Kosher and mudslimes lose their mind about it lol, still a great work if one is interested in the life of a great pedophile cult leader

>>16085830
>>16085863
As for beliefs (doxia, dogma, or pistis, belief/faith), that is distinct from either but seen as necessary for both. Neither pistis/doxia nor theoria is praxis

>>16085873
Does Martin Ling's book explain why Muhammad's child bride was regularly washing the semen out of his clothes right before he ran to mosque in the mornings? I've had a lot of sex and never did I cum on my own clothes. But with Muhammad it was a regular thing.

>>16085877
That remains a mystery.

>>16085873
It's extremely well written and very poorly researched, as one might expect as Lings is an English and Shakespeare professor, not an historian or religious scholar.

>>16085863
And pray tell what does Islam have that even comes close to the ladder of divine ascent or the philokalia?

>>16085877
Wet dream

>>16085904
He had multiple wives and a child bride, why was he having wet dreams? Sex maniac?

>>16085902
It's actually practiced, whereas Orthodox Christians name-drop their books while behaving in the exact opposite fashion these books prescribe

>>16085908
that loli puss got him acting funny m8

>>16085902
>And pray tell what does Islam have that even comes close to the ladder of divine ascent
hadiths about Satan sleeping in your nose at night

>>16085908
Wet dreams are commonly related about the Sahaba. Men are required to wash their entire body of they have one. Women too although it's less common

>>16083731
Alhamdullilah. Great Dawah brother!

>>16085913
>>16085913
>It's actually practiced
where? in sufi mosques?
normie mosques don't touch that stuff
and jihadi mosques are just reacting to whatever is annoying them that day

>>16085915
I like how so many Wrath of Gnon quotes can be used with ISIS pictures

>>16085929

>>16085929
Because Christian monarchy existed before ISIS and Islam

>>16085926
Islam is actually practiced. The mystical woowoo is just a LARP. Islam extols warriors, not priests and hermits

>>16085939
However Maistre has more in common with ISIS than he does with most Christians today

>>16085913
>It's actually practiced
>>16085940
>Islam is actually practiced.
Not sure what this means. Muslims practice 12th century ascetic Christian mysticism? Good for them I guess.

>Islam extols warriors, not priests and hermits
A complete religion has space for all these classes, that's why in Christianity we have monks, priests, hermits, warriors, missionaries, laymen and householders; because different archetypes exist. Islam in focusing on one aspect of man becomes myopic, that's why sufis are spinning in circles aimlessly because the religion doesn't know how to deal with such seekers.

>>16085966
Orthodox Christianity is fundamentally pro monastic and anti warrior. Going to war required a penance among the Byzantines. The pro war version today is just a cosmetic, that's why you have the dissonance of members talking about how much they hate niggers and love bombing Muslims and calling random people retards while touting John of the Ladder who would probably think they were possessed.

Every time I see a westerner LARPing in arab dress I'm reminded that God's religion is not linguistically or culturally trapped in one era.

>>16085923
>>16085946
All you need is Christ, to be honest.
Anyone who turns away from the gospel turns to man-made religion.

>>16085966
>ascetic Christian mysticism
Asceticism in the name of God is highly recommended in Islam.

>>16085999
I will never subscribe to a polytheistic faith.

>>16085975
>that's why you have the dissonance of members talking about how much they hate niggers and love bombing Muslims and calling random people retards while touting John of the Ladder who would probably think they were possessed.
It must be nice cherry picking things from dissonant members to create a disjointed image of a religion. One could do the same to Islam and make it seem like a 4-headed abomination too.

>>16086011
>I will never subscribe to a polytheistic faith.
Good, then you should become Christian, because multi-personhood doesn't imply multi-substance of being.

>>16086021
cope

>>16086014
It's been a universal experience at least online

>>16085999
Most Muslims aren't Arabs

>>16086068
>Most Muslims aren't Arabs
LARP doesn't mean: "to be", but to "pretend" to be.

>It's been a universal experience at least online
The universal experience of lumping all Christians haphazardly together, while making very fine and nuanced distinctions between muslims, heretic muslims, sufis, and all their different schools of thought?

>>16085863
You are an autistic nigger, assuming I was using the word practical in the technical sense which Aristotle used it. Words have more than one meaning, Meditation and mystical practices are practical in the ordinary meaning of that word, in that you do it. Christcuckery is just a belief, giving money to pedo priests doesn't count as something practical.

>>16085876
I don't care about your christcuck hair splitting over definitions. Fuck your dead kike on a stick.

>>16085902
Islam has thikr which is actually practiced. Almost no Christians do any contemplative exercises.

>>16086165
It would seem you said Islam,not just Christianity.

>>16086174
>no Christians do any contemplative exercises.
this is pure cope and denial

>>16086199
In fact it's largely all they do

>>16086174
>Almost no Christians do any contemplative exercises.

>>16086202
They just pet their egos online talking about theology and their own righteousness

>>16086222
They do but resort to sophistry when shit sounds too retarded like trinity. Conceptualisation of God from an Islamic perspective is cogent

>>16085920
Are they really that common? I had maybe two as a teenager, and none since

>>16086276
I don't have them but apparently they were then. So common a rain after the night before Badr which is counted as ghusl (total body cleansing required after wet dreams) is seen as a miracle sent specifically to purify the men

>>16086276
They dont have porn u coomer

>>16086323
I don't watch porn or masturbate at all and I'm a Muslim and still don't really have them. Although I do get precum issues sometimes, although that is different and the ruling is only wash it and make wudu

goddammit this thread started good