/lit/ - Literature

>>16067871
>>>/mu/

IMAGINE
ALL THE PEOPLE
LIVING LIFE IN PEACE

>>16067871
Because nothing since Wagner can be considered actual music. This dumb down pop music shit is the equivalent of comic books in literature.
>i-imagin a-all the p-people
What a dumbass message.

>>16067871
Why tf is this even a question? Do you imagine a pop song, or any song for that matter espousing paragraph upon paragraph of political theory? Lyrics exist to make the song more memorable. They don't even have to mean anything, it's mostly aesthetics, as it should be.

>>16067871
Can’t exactly fit a good treatise in a 3 minute song and still entertain people.
>don’t worry, be happy
Read Nietzsche you hippie fuck
Or don’t. Music is an emotional experience and presupposes agreement or at least willingness to look past the disagreements in order to form a sentimental connection
>When my little brother died I said fuck school. WAKA
I don’t generally agree with anti-intellectualist sentiments, but I felt that.

>>16067962
they just shouldn't talk about politics and philosophy then

>>16067966
That's whay o thought, appreciating music is a much more emotional experience in contrast to the other mentioned medium, wich are far more thoughtful.

>>16067999
What's so grand with thoughts, anon?

>>16067871
you only think that because you listen to shitty music

>>16067871
You have 10 minutes or less to sing something profound that has to rhyme and follow the song. This is assuming you are singing the entire time with no breaks for instrumentals.
Most musician's life experience is high school, making music, and touring.
Most musicians are just straight up idiot savants
Music that has lyrics has always been for low IQ people.

Deathspell Omega is one of the most /lit/ bands ever.

>>16067871
>Why are musicians generally so illiterate?
The same reason piano is still a bourg meme 100 years past its practical in home entertainment sell by date, cymbal monkeys and academic morticians that cannot compose anything remotely worthy of joining the canon they studied

>>16067962
>Lyrics exist to make the song more memorable. They don't even have to mean anything, it's mostly aesthetics, as it should be
this can still be true while lyrics also indicate a fundamental misunderstanding of basic political/philosophical ideas. musicians are masters of feeling stuff really really hard, man, and having the gall to think anyone of any significance fucking cares

>>16067999
>emotional
I think spiritual is probably a better description of musical experience. It cuts through the exterior and touch right at the goopy soul. That's why it's able to drive people to do retarded shit.

>>16068110
This

I read some hilarious opinions about music on /lit today. Many of them were well thought out!

>>16067871
Read Schopenhauer, music is the direct copy of the Will whereas other art forms picture phenomenal representations of the Will, music is more primitive and rudimentary than all other art forms

>>16069418
>>16068110
Post lyrics so we can laugh at you.

>>16067908
I don't get it. Is it because of her look or her literature?

>>16067871
Do you think most musicians actually write their songs they are curated personalities meant to increase sales of their respective publishers, the same can be said about the lyrics.

*blocks your path*

>>16067911
cringe

*pop musicians
ftfy

>>16069589
I) The Popular Left and Butterfly Government Dreams

I sing poems of rebellion. Lax russet lips lavish
scabrous empathy. Without rights I kowtow. A silly
carcass burrowing forward. This reads terms of vast
cosmos for Tianamen Square, or felt dampness in meat.
I crave iced pavement to clot my languid flesh. Without
rights I blunder. A bloated child lost in a flaccid smile.
Mold and silk ripple the womb. Congested slams of
Beijing. Suckle chunk water surviving rusty plumbing.
Paint chips and fades the wormholed face of Mao
Zedong. Insects tremble at the coming of the Year of the
Cockroach.
Visage with backwards eyes could be Sun-Yet-Sen. A
friend armed with nails to help me torch the flag.
"Leader, your steps I adore. I’ll fight along since you
stand for me. I have surrendered to life's enchantment, a
voluptuous passing dream."


II) Sticky Slithers Royal Fly

"Carnage?”, peeped the Fly. His wings glide with
sweat. Lick her foot. Consume it slowly. Blood is what I
need. Raped her squirming cute face sobbing. I'm the
Cockroach King. When is wrong all right? We'll banter in
the cupboards. Meditate. Use Zen under the plates.
Father I am. I'm you, but I've found I'm you as lethe.


III) Artist at War, Flesh Armor

Sable Saliva paints a plethora of Lindens with rugose
branches and molted angst torsos.
"Don't cry my baby brother. A martyr I was made.
When the tanks just roll me over, remember where your
loyalties remain.”


IV) Closed Door, Open Gash

Thighs held tense and wet deserve salacious care.
Risque' like death I maim guests slowly. Love is all I
need. A fat bombast stripped leitmotif for the Cockroach
King. A ruffian to trust? Like what kissing preludes. What
rigmarole poets elude. Father I am. I'm you, but I've
found I'm you; a swain.


V) Drugs, Fine Wine, Revolution, and More Drugs

The pariah's gone. Extirpated. Let's burn “His” house.
Holy water drink it slowly. Where's the police tonight?
Stumbling down here. Here the police will die. City
water vomits harshly. Love spinning round. Flailing.
Bloody water washes hardly. Sauterne, parched I suck.
Blotter. Sweat and water tastes too salty now.
Lepidoptera. One billion strong. Twenty miles wide
to kill one man.
No time to use with morals to loose. To choose.


VI) Exit the Fool

Dabble dandy sulfur daisy eye. My eye. Debatable
flummery. Me free. Lilliputian ego. A rayon vest, a
smooth chest. No complications. No compendium.
Sangfroid. I disencumber with equilibrium. A drunkard. I
am. I'm you, but I've found I'm you as dawn.

Post /lit/ music
https://youtu.be/Fk-4lXLM34g

>>16067871
Because you have a lot more time, space and freedom to flesh out ideas with the other mediums. Songs are a few minutes long, about 20 lines and have to rhyme. Try summing up A Critique of Pure Reason in a song.

>>16071102
https://youtu.be/wy4IsC5eb7o

classical music musicians are literate. There are popular music artists who are as well but most of them make boring experimental shit. i'd rather listen to be blink 182 than some spacey post rock wank. i listened to tons of that stuff as a teenager and cant remember any of it

>>16067871
why do you put claim in question why? are you stupid faggot?

>>16071082
All garbage

>>16071082
>this is what /litl/ thinks is deep

>>16067911
Based

>>16067871
Because the equivalent of filmmakers like Bergman and painters like Goya is not pop musicians like John Lennon, but classical musicians like Shostakovich.

There's nothing more politically nuanced than Shostakovich's music.

>>16067911
Very good comparison, except that there's much erudite music after Wagner which is of immense quality.

But pop music is the comics of music, indeed. It can even be quite good, such as Corto Maltese comics, but ultimately it does not surpass the status of mere entertainment, except perhaps very rarely.

>hope my spermatozoa from my scrotum intercepts an ovum

>>16067911
Are you just saying that because people told you to like Wagner? Such a narrow minded view. You miss out on so much great music.

I think this whole thread is a bit off. I mean how can you expect one art form to hold the standards of another?

But if you must have both, I can only recommend music that has been set to poetry.
Debussy has a set of songs based on the poetry of Bauledaire.

I believe Lana Del Rey is one of the best lyricist/songwriters of our time. To me they are woven with themes of toxic love, decadence, nihilism. While also using modernist techniques of referencing other art. Her albums all hold strong themes.
To me, her lyrics remind me of Bukowski or Kerouac. But whether that is literate enough for you is debatable.

>>16073013
>I believe Lana Del Rey is one of the best lyricist/songwriters of our time.
>they are woven with themes of toxic love, decadence, nihilism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MFaH-Kb2HD0

This is /lit/ music.


Also this (lyrics too good to be translated, sorry):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6pulTcDmlh4

>>16073030
My man out here simping for Lana Del Bog

>>16073013
>I believe Lana Del Rey is one of the best lyricist/songwriters of our time

Kill yourself

>>16071048
based. better writer than most popular contemporary poets.

>>16073501
Better than Hack Whitman

The good ones arent. There's an entire section in pic related's autobiography where he lists alot of books that were influential to his work and it clearly shows. Same goes for most other good songwriters, except for Dan Van Vliet, who used the power of schizophrenia to write his songs.

I am now thinking in Leonard Cohen and Zappa, but maybe your are right

>>16073798
maybe it's because my english is not that good, but aren't his lyrics really nonsense?

>>16073876
not at all, they are masterfully written i would say.

"Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying"

>>16073798
yeah dylan is quite literate.
He was influenced by Villion and Rimbaud

>>16074082
Dostojevski too.

>>16073981
what is he talking about here? The first line is I take it a reference to the Koestler book, but why is that 'shadowing the silver spoon'? Is he talking about a conflict between communism and capitalism?

>>16074129
Look at the rest of the song for some more context, the lyrics are amazing. "its alright ma, im only bleeding"

>>16074158
what do you think he's saying there?

>>16074162
That which the song is about affects everyone, innocent or vile, rich or poor, and that this unstoppable force is beyond our control.

TRIPLE SIX FIVE FOUR

bump

>>16067871
>Why are musicians generally so illiterate?

music is easy to do as opposed to writing a book, making a film, painting, etc...

>>16073013
>I believe Lana Del Rey is one of the best lyricist/songwriters of our time. To me they are woven with themes of toxic love, decadence, nihilism. While also using modernist techniques of referencing other art. Her albums all hold strong themes.

>>16073013
>I believe Lana Del Rey is a songwriter
oof

>>16067871
I'll leave this here

>>16073030
>>16073076
>>16076212
>>16076227
Not an argument

>>16067871
>Kanye West
>illiterate

Pick one.

>>16067871
>Why are musicians generally so illiterate?
Speak for yourself. /lit is a Wagnerian board.

>>16077214
Please go back to /mu and never come back ever again.

>>16073013
>I believe Lana Del Rey is one of the best lyricist/songwriters of our time

>>16067871
Because they're musicians not writers, are you stupid?

>>16073013
10/10

>>16076845
No reason to argue

>>16072977
stop trying to sound intelligent lmfao. it sounds awful

>>16069073
Retard take - thanks for wasting our time

>>16076164
Lol ok anon

The only good thing that came out of Lennon was that he got Yoko naked

>>16076845
Thank you!
These guys probably never listened to her.
Like most people on this board they think they have the highest taste without going to the buffet.

Penitentiary chances, the devil dances
And eventually answers to the call of Autumn
All of them fallin' for the love of ballin'
Got caught with 30 rocks, the cop look like Alec Baldwin
Inter-century anthems based off inner-city tantrums
Based off the way we was branded
Face it; Jerome get more time than Brandon
And at the airport they check all through my bag
And tell me that it’s random
But we stay winning, this week has been a bad massage
I need a happy ending and a new beginning
And a new fitted, and some job opportunities that's lucrative
This the real world, homie, school finished
They done stole your dreams, you dunno who did it
I treat the cash the way the government treats AIDS
I won't be satisfied til all my niggas get it, get it?

>>16076845
you just want to fuck her, don´t lie

>>16079932
Can you blame him? Also her music isn't terrible

>>16067871
If you don't listen to music solely for the fun, you're a restarted pseud.

Have you personally met many musicians outside of the higher brow genres? Most of them are pretty stupid or mediocre intelligence at best, pretty shallow and they do what they do for the sake of ego, not any intellectual purpose. Crowleyite rock stars were the king of this shit.

>>16081468
yuck

>>16082550
wrong

>>16083822
pleb

>>16067871
After this I went to one man after another, being not unconscious of the enmity which I provoked, and I lamented and feared this: but necessity was laid upon me - the word of God, I thought, ought to be considered first. And I said to myself, Go I must to all who appear to know, and find out the meaning of the oracle. And I swear to you, Athenians, by the dog I swear! - for I must tell you the truth - the result of my mission was just this: I found that the men most in repute were all but the most foolish; and that some inferior men were really wiser and better. I will tell you the tale of my wanderings and of the "Herculean" labors, as I may call them, which I endured only to find at last the oracle irrefutable. When I left the politicians, I went to the poets; tragic, dithyrambic, and all sorts. And there, I said to myself, you will be detected; now you will find out that you are more ignorant than they are. Accordingly, I took them some of the most elaborate passages in their own writings, and asked what was the meaning of them - thinking that they would teach me something. Will you believe me? I am almost ashamed to speak of this, but still I must say that there is hardly a person present who would not have talked better about their poetry than they did themselves. That showed me in an instant that not by wisdom do poets write poetry, but by a sort of genius and inspiration; they are like diviners or soothsayers who also say many fine things, but do not understand the meaning of them. And the poets appeared to me to be much in the same case; and I further observed that upon the strength of their poetry they believed themselves to be the wisest of men in other things in which they were not wise. So I departed, conceiving myself to be superior to them for the same reason that I was superior to the politicians.
-Socrates

https://seanald.ca/jesus-the-individual/

>>16083836
queer

>>16083883
>queer
>says the guy who listens to an artist that only arthoes like

you´re not making sense dude

based lana makes nerds seethe because she combines a poetic sensibility with a dionysian sound, and it makes nerds uncomfortable when their interests are appropriated by the beautiful people, and often out to better use.

how much published poetry out there so pathetically and clumsily tries to capture the mood of Summertime Sadness? All of it. seethe, nerds.

>>16067871
David Bowie was more /lit/ than everyone ITT.
http://www.bowiebookclub.com/david-bowies-100-most-influential-books
Schoenberg both read and wrote incredibly influential books on music theory. Coltrane studied music very seriously and read Slonimsky's books on scales. You are a retarded elitist faggot if you think a pop musician has to major in political science just to voice their own personal political opinion. But even your claim that musicians are illiterate is just complete bullshit. MGMT, a pop band, are college grads. You can't fit deep and flawless arguments into music, that's not what music is about.
>>16073013
I guarantee that even some ex gang member rappers who dropped out of high school are more literate than most people ITT. nu/lit/ is just pathetic posers, just as bad as art thots if not worse

>>16083904
your post (>>16082550) implied homosexuality

>>16083993
she looks retarded lmao, of course i´m not into her

>>16083923
based

>>16067911
First post in what feels like days that made me crack a smile

>>16067871
music is for pure emotional response and the best music is music that gives the most extreme of emotional responses

Of course /lit/ is the only place dumb enough to not get the point of Imagine. You morons don't know how songwriting work.

>>16067908
IMAGINE
A FINAL SOLUTION
TO A CERTAIN PROBLEM

>>16083958
>MGMT, a pop band, are college grads.
Wowzers!

Pop musicians are modern day minstrels, but even worse, to be mad at them for lack of poetic depth is like to be mad at a dog for barking.
>>16071082
In his essay on Martin Firero, Borges noted how in fabricating the poem as if from a pen of a peasant the author betrayed his education because the final text was a restrained and balanced type of verse that a peasant couldn't have written, for peasant when he tries his mind at verse goes for a naively extravagant verbal texture and a pyrotechnical use of poetic techniques.
>>16073013
Intertextuality is a feat that precedens mofernist works, you cretin, then again what an I expecting from someone who thinks that that thot's lyrics are of any value.

Jesus Christ what a shit thread.

A lot of raps have great lyrics.

>>16073013
>>16072977
Yes there obviously is very good music being produced to this day. Me pointing to one of the greatest of all time was bait. Pop is the comic books of music indeed. Its very rudimentary and archetypal. It connects with something primal which isn't bad on its own. People who claim though that its the highest of arts are musical stone age men (see how women and children are obsessed with pop music and the culture surrounding it).

>>16067908
Simone was objectively ugly and philosophy sois who simp over her are pathetic. I have a particular shitty comic artist especially in mind, in case you were wondering.

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too

Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one"

.
.
.

Please show me where he is wrong.

Criticize it. What's wrong with it? Nothing. Perfect clean message right there. The words are simple, but the meaning is deep, so deep it gets over pretentious people's head. We could get into political details if we wanted, but we always get caught in a spiral of debate that makes it stale and stiff. What is that he is saying, anarchy? Communism? He is not talking of Bakhtin or promoting the USSR, you can't take it to that route and it's good that you can't compare with anything at all. If he were to situate this message, name the ideologies, address how to work with it, talk about people or strategies, the message would be ruined and lost in time. You may argue on the necessity of states because of world politics or how competition plays a role in social life, you may call it impossible, improbable or naive, but 1000 years from now, this song will still be relevant. He calls it "imagine", because that's what it is, an imaginary picture, something that isn't (yet). The idea is there and you can imagine it. "it isn't hard to do", "it's easy if you try", "I hope one day you'll join us", that's it.

>>16088031
It's a lot of bland platitudes.

>>16088155
We need platitudes too.

>>16088031