/lit/ - Literature

>>16044057
The only significant greek plays I've read are the theban tragedies, of which Oedipus the king is also my favorite. What other greek drama is worth reading?

>>16044216
Oresteia, Prometheus bound, Persians

>>16044216
Ajax, Hippolytus, the Bacchae

>>16044057
Women of Trachis is great metaphor even today for how women ruin everything by their well-meaning naivety.

>>16044301
This is an incel moment.

You may be wondering what an "incel moment" is, well here it is, defined.

-When confronted with interracial relationships, this triggers a primal urge in the incel. Half enraged, half aroused he is reminded by his own loneliness and the high desire to be in a meaningful relationship with a women. Protip, he never will
-When confronted by criticism of race and gender dynamics, wojacks, ad-homs will follow. The incel isn't educated so his immediate reaction is to rage and expose his white fragility
-Though he posts photos and memes about how he hates women, all he wants is to be with a women. The problem is, he's not attractive and never will be. Women avoid him like a plague so he attacks anonymously on the internet (notice how he's a complete coward).
-His response when he has no argument is typical "dilate", "nigger", "cope" "seethe" etc. You know when they post this, you've won and witnessed an incel moment.
-Deep down, they're extremely fragile and insecure. They've never really interacted with people outside of their own family so they've never developed proper intellectual and emotional relationships.
-Typically lean right, MAGA despite not really knowing anything about policy, history or society in general. They're obsessed with SJW's, women, minorities even though they don't know any. Easily brainwashed and indoctrinated. Youtubers like PJW, Milo & Steven Crowder have them changing their worldviews every video they post. They're unable to form coherent arguments but are overly emotional when it comes to issues. Notice phrases like "Political correction is destroying our media!" despite not giving any examples on set topics.
That's it folks, a quick guide to spot incel moments and incel rage. Pass it along.

>>16044301
Were female characters portrayed by men in Classical Greece? How did that work?

>>16044216
The Oresteia trilogy is worth reading. Oedipus Rex is my favorite greek play as well, but Oresteia is still really good.

I like Antigone

>>16044306
Please elaborate, have you even read the play ?

>>16044300
Are The Bacchae pro-coomer or anti-coomer?

>>16044353
Depends on how you define "coomer"

>>16044373
Define "coomer"

>>16044216
>>16044270
Prometheus Bound is definitely the best Aeschylus.

>>16044379
Wasn't it supposed to be a trilogy, mirroring the theme of Theogony, as well as Orestia?

>>16044377
I always took it to be a chronic masturbator. If you define it as some constantly seeking sex with actual partners, then maybe the Bacchae are "pro-coomer"

>>16044057
Aristophanes is based.

>>16044382
Yes, but I'm just talking about the merits of the dialogue and themes within that play itself.

This edition is pretty good.

>Womyn translators. REEEEEEEEEE

Shut up. The future is female.

>>16044384
What's your favorite Aristophanes play? I personally like the Birds.

>>16044057
Has anyone here read all the plays? There are only a few dozen in total, right?

>>16044270
Based and Aeschylus-pilled.

>>16044491
I think I've read most of the well known ones (aka all the ones that have Reclam versions). All of them are worth reading, them being short makes them perfect for a longer train journey or a comfy weekend afternoon.

>>16044320
They were portrayed by young twinks
>>16044353
I wouldn't call the work pro-coomer but the guy whose anti-cooming and everyone vaguely related to him all suffer immensely
>>16044393
There aren't very many though we know that thousands had been written and even Plato wrote a few before taking on philosophy
You could probably binge the entire canon in a weekend if you are willing to watch them as plays

Just read Philoctetes, was great until the literal deus ex machina at the end.

>>16044057
Orpheus and Eurydice
I haven't read any of the Greek plays, just the summaries of them in anthological works about Greek mythology

>>16044491
I've read all the tragedies and a handful of comedies. There are, I think, 30 tragedies in total (7 by Aeschylus, 7 by Sophocles and 19(?) by Euripides).

>>16044216
The Oresteia is the best IMO, Oedipus at Colonus is the one I really enjoyed, Ajax, Andromache, Heracles, Hippolytus and Suppliants (Euripides)

>>16044057
Antigone or The Bacchae

>>16044057
Sophocles > Aeschylus >>>>> Euripides

For me, it's Cyclops.

Philoktetes by Sophokles

Agamemnon. After reading this everything fell into place.

>>16046161
>After reading this everything fell into place.
Can you elaborate on this statement?

>>16044057
The Frogs by Aristophanes is fucking hilarious. When 2016 came around and the people started using Kek, I thought they got it from this play but it’s just a coincidence.

>>16046172
I grew up very poor, but my mum would always help me. When I was quite young she would read me Dickens, and then after a few years I would read to her, I read Bleak House at around 9 or 10. She took me to see Macbeth, and then Lear when I was about 11-12 and I will remember it to this day. Until I die I will remember hearing "Where shall we three meet again in thunder, lightning, or in rain?", and "Had I your tongues and eyes, I’d use them so that heaven’s vault should crack" These were intense and formative moments in my life. Every year we would visit an open air Shakespeare festival so I became familiar with Shakespeare.

When I was in my mid-teens I became exposed to the classics which unfortunately they don't teach in state schools. Once I read Agamemnon it brought home everything I had experienced in terms of literature, and "it" all fell into place. That is, is started with the Greeks, I found classics, and everything else in my head came into context.

/blog

>>16046297
It was a similar experience to hearing Wagner properly for the first time if that makes sense.

>>16045506
>uncultured pleb
>shitsona reaction image
checks out

>>16044057
Antigone, Bacchae, and Lysistrata. Antigone the most.

Medea (Euripides)

>>16044390
>Shut up. The future is males LARPing as females.
ftfy

>>16046943
Whom are you quoting?

>>16046598
Calm down nigger, its just an image.
I'll make sure to give them a go when I'm done with my current anthology and have finished Antony and Cleopatra.

>>16045506
>>16047480
>anime reaction image
>retarded opinion
EVERY TIME

>>16048313
>following a reply chain that include an anon posting images related to an off-topic but distinct subject
You are the nigger here, anon.

>>16048403
>>>/a/ is that way

>>16048418
>not even linking the appropriate board
Not
Gonna
Make
It

>>16048403
>following a reply chain that include an anon posting images related to an off-topic but distinct subject
What's bad about that?

>>16048529
the fact that's he bitching about that particular anon as if its not just one person with an identifiable posting style

>>16046963
The Future

>>16048546
Pathetic.

>>16044057
Electra by Sophocles is kino

>>16048851
Exactly.

>>16044306
>"incel moment"

>>16049018
That was definitely an incel moment, yes.

>>16044057
>reading plays written by Greek homos
Yikes!

>>16044057
Probably Prometheus Bound, if only because I find Prometheus the most interesting character of greek mythology.

>>16044057
Seven Against Thebes, Prometheus Bound, Oedipus at Colonus, Philoctetes, Medea.

>>16044306
What an embarrassing pasta

Anyone read this translation? Any good?

Aristophanes - The War

>>16052952
I didn't

Greek plays are honestly really shit.

>>16044057

Aeschylus is the greatest poet (one of the only writers whose metaphor-drenched style is similar to that of Shakespeare; he is the proto-Shakespeare, with verbal talents superior to those of Homer).

Sophocles is the great master of structure, proportion, suspense and playwrighting machinery.

Euripedes, of all the 3, was the one who knew human beings better.

I also read something about Oedipus in Colonus that I really liked:

Oedipus has a double nature as well, the legacy of its incestuous and parricidal past. His violation of the most fundamental human codes has made him a miasma, a danger to anyone who comes into contact with him. But his polluted body also has a benign power, as we discovered from the reports of oracles and prophecies throughout the play. Oedipus can confer victory on any army he accompanies in life (lines 1331-32), or any city that buries him after he is dead (lines 411-15). In Greek terms it became hagios, a word that - illogical from a modern Judeo-Christian perspective - can be translated as either 'sacred' or 'cursed'. His crimes took him beyond the human condition; transcending such a condition does not make it simply good or bad, but numinous, terrible, inaccessible. ” (...) “The final sequence of the play deals with the solemn mystery of the death of Oedipus and his burial. Oedipus knows that his time has come, and Zeus's thunder confirms it. Assisted by his daughter and Theseus, Oedipus bathes and says goodbye, then, alone with Theseus, he completes his way to a predestined location. There the gods themselves seem to be calling him to join his company: “You there, Oedipus! Why aren't we still / on our way? ” calls a voice without a body (lines 1637-38). This plural speaks volumes. Having endured more than a mere mortal could endure, Oedipus finally becomes a kind of god, or at least what the Greeks called a hero, an immortal being whose tomb becomes a focal point of divine power. Usually a hero's tomb receives worship services, but in this case it must remain hidden; only Theseus is allowed to know where it is, so that some enemy of Athens does not steal the remains. Antígona and Ismene, in the beautiful lyrical closing of the play, cry a crypt that they will never be able to visit, and take their way in a world made dark by the impending war between their brothers. ”.

>>16054987
>Aeschylus is the greatest poet (one of the only writers whose metaphor-drenched style is similar to that of Shakespeare; he is the proto-Shakespeare, with verbal talents superior to those of Homer).
>Sophocles is the great master of structure, proportion, suspense and playwrighting machinery.
>Euripedes, of all the 3, was the one who knew human beings better.

I agree with this. Out of the 3, I enjoyed Sophocles the most.

>>16054897
List the Greek plays you've read and name your favorite playwrights so we can compare your inane comment with your actual tastes and knowledge, pseud.

>>16044306

>>16054987
It's a shame so many of the plays of Aeschylus and Sophocles are lost without even fragments. Interestingly Euripides has the most surviving plays. He's great in his own right but even Aristophanes placed him last in ranking the big three.

What is the best play of Aristophanes to read to better appreciate his work? I've tried some of his stuff but found it hard to get invested in. Greek humor just seems so juvenile, like Ace Ventura or something.

>>16054987
What was Aristophanes good at?

>>16056134

I don't know his work very much, but the parabasis on "The Birds" is one of the best poems of ancient Greece in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdv3vkECqXA

Name a better performance (you can't)

>>16044057
Of the plays I read so far I liked Agamemnon and Ajax the most so far.

>>16055695
Yeah we just got lucky that part of a collection of Euripides' plays were found additionally to his works that were used for teaching in Byzantium. It can be quite random what survives and what doesn't.

>>16045369
To me it seemed like a point he was trying to make throughout the play was that the right thing would be to go back home and not back to the war, also he was keeping the audience in suspense because everyone knew what would later happen to these characters from Homer so they were probably thinking wtf is going on. The ending is like Sophocles saying well I made my point but I can't change "history" (those were considered historical events by 6th century Athenians) so here's a sloppy solution to fix the plot hole and emphasize my opinion.

>>16056597
*5th century oops

>>16056597
That makes sense, especially since Achilles' son agrees at the end to take them both home and abandon Odysseus and his schemes. The point just before Heracles shows up seems like the logical endpoint, the stuff after almost seems like it was tacked on by someone else entirely. It certainly could have ended ambiguously, like the ending of Oedipus Rex, but maybe Sophocles felt audiences wouldn't react well to that kind of ending.

How do Roman playwrights compare with the Greeks?

>>16046210

Aristophanes is really good, proves that some things are just inherently funny enough to translate through cultures and millenia

>>16055927

It's often absurdist and quite broad, just go along with it - bodily functions are quite funny, especially when played off against higher concept comedy like political satire and talking dogs, pots and pans

Is it worth getting complete collections for these guys or just the selected ones that have the great ones?

>>16057140
It's worth getting all of Sophocles and Aeschylus, all of Euripides is less essential.

>>16057140
Depends on how much you want to get into it. Get the great ones first and then decide for yourself, I'd say. You can certainly skip the non Oresteia plays by Aeschylus (except maybe Persians or Prometheus Bound) because they belong to incomplete trilogies with connected storylines and you can also trim down on Euripides as he has quite a few surviving plays if you like.

>>16044057
Why is Tiresias used as the stock prophet character in a lot of these plays? And, is he actually infallible in his prophecies? Would be interesting if any of the plays show him as getting it wrong. Haven't read all of them yet, obviously.