/lit/ - Literature

>>16040062
Why are Jews always so blatantly Jewish? Why is their cultural identity built on making things worse for everyone else

A society full of rivaling ethics, goals, morals and cultures sounds epic as fuck bro

>>16040083
We opened our borders to all the Germans Italians and Irishmen and look at how they built America into the #1 superpower!

Why isn't China opening their borders?

>>16040098
They are racists. It's one reason they will probably lose.

>Economists for decades saying that immigration will increase wages and investment
>Literally doesn't
>now only finally begrudgingly admit it
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/economists-on-the-run?utm_source=pocket-newtab

The hilarious thing was I remember arguing with an Econ professor literally a decade ago and him saying that increasing immigration leading to wage growth is as proven as the law of gravity and that I was basically on the level of a climate change denier.
Honestly the entire field of Economics should be thrown into the fucking trash and re-merged with Sociology. The idea of being able to model human behaviour while rejecting the entire field of study of human behaviour and social development is fucking absurd.

>>16040062
hey
i just saw this image on /pol/

>>16040121
Everything in this post is a lie.

>>16040134
False

>>16040134
It's not a lie at all. The amount of time i've argued with retarded econ professors or econ grads over "law of economics" only for them to get proven wrong, often within a fucking year, is honestly absurd. Another one for example was an Econ post-grad arguing that cutting Penalty rates would lead to increased Employment and "it was a simple law of economics you retard, if business owners have savings of wages, they can reinvest into more employment", of course, over the course of the next 2 years, full employment rates fell.

Also Economists are finally admitting that open borders is not actually all that good and that immigration does hurt wages for pretty much anyone below upper-tier PMC jobs.

>>16040083
>>16040121
>>16040151
Yeah but think of the GDP growth and taco trucks

>>16040151
Open borders hasn't existed since the 19th century, the period of the longest sustained wage growth in American history.
>>16040158
Think of the polio vaccines

>>16040121
I've always read that there is a "quiet consensus" that immigration suppresses wages. Blah blah George Borjas.

OF FUCKING COURSE. That's literally the excuse they give: we don't have enough people willing to pick fruit for no money.

Never mind that there's no such thing as a 'labor shortage' because we have a price system. It's always a matter of trade-offs. Employers *want* a trillion laborers at a penny an hour. Workers *want* a trillion an hour. What *both* are willing to accept = the quantity of labor bought and sold.

To the pro-immigrant girls (female) on this board: Help! I'm having a blowjob shortage!

There oughta be a law.

>>16040151
>>16040121
Simple question: would restricting fertility increase wages and employment?
If you can't provide a clear answer to this, your posts go in the trash.

>>16040165
>Open borders
>Literally and explicitly limited to "white person[s]"

>>16040174
>>16040180

Who here /rationalist/ in the classical philosophical sense? Any /praxeology/ bros who think economics is /apriori/?

>>16040182
>t. Gets my understanding of American history from /pol/ memes
>t. Doesn't understand the difference between immigration and naturalization

>>16040180
>less labor to be had
>price of labor goes up
Affirmative

>>16040180
Well, fertility has been declining globally with each decade, and yet wages continue to stagnate. So, the two don't necessarily seem to correlate.

>>16040208
Interesting, so why have we become gradually wealthier even as population exploded over the past two centuries?

The fact wages grew with open borders is a total coincidence. Science almost always trails behind manufacturing and engineering when it comes to innovations and our knowledge of the physical world.

We owe our lifestyles to democracy, unions, and an urgent need to look better than those damn commies.

>>16040062
TRUE, this is the redpill /lit/ won't take:
>Open border advocates argue that free migration is the most effective way to reduce world poverty. Migrants from developing countries can earn higher wages after moving to a more developed country, usually lifting them from 'developing world poverty' to 'developed world poverty'. They also send remittances to relatives in their home country, the flow of remittances being estimated to be around three times the global foreign aid spending reported by the OECD.

>A literature summary by economist Michael Clemens leads to an estimate that open borders would result in an increase of 67-147% in GWP (gross world product), with a median estimate of a doubling of world GDP. One estimate placed the economic benefits at 78 trillion.

>From a human rights perspective, free migration may be seen to complement Article 13 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights: (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

>Professor Joseph Carens argues that the social inequality imposed by closed borders is so great it outweighs any challenges to their political or economic feasibility. He argues we should open borders based on the same reasons we reject the feudal system: both are legal systems which afford privilege based on the luck of birthright and maintain inequality by limiting the lower socioeconomic status groups' freedom to move.

>American bioethicist Jacob M. Appel has argued that "treating human beings differently, simply because they were born on the opposite side of a national boundary," is inherently unethical. According to Appel, such "birthrights" are only defensible if they serve "useful and meaningful social purposes" (such as inheritance rights, which encourage mothers and fathers to work and save for their children), but the "birthright of nationality" does not do so. Economist and writer Philippe Legrain argues that the countries of the world need migration to help global trade and reduce the occurrence of regional wars.

>Open borders cannot be dismissed as a utopian idea, argues Harald Bauder, because they do not propose an alternative way to organize human society but rather are a critique of closed or controlled borders. This critique, however, invites the search for practical as well as radical solutions to the problematic consequences of contemporary migration practices, including the deaths of migrants in the Mediterranean Sea, the US–Mexico border, and elsewhere.

To all the anti open borders 'tards:
We had open borders in the 1800s where we transformed from a rural backwater in 90% of the country to the #1 world economy
Why don't you want this?

Wew, and to think I deleted all my screencaps of this book just the other day.
It's a real shit show, but the gist of it is that GDP is God, and quite literally nothing else matters.

>>16040249
Quote where he says that

I hate jews muslims and black people

Brain draining developing nations into eternal poverty is good and desirable because it boosts my GDP and makes yuppies feel good about themselves.

>>16040238
Bit wait, there is more:
>Restrictions on mobility can only be justified if it can be shown that those restrictions prevent significant harm. Since research indicates that open borders will be better for both the natives and the migrants, and at the very least have not been shown to cause major harm, those restrictions are unjustified. The remote control methods used to keep hopeful immigrants out of wealthy nations (such as visa programs, flood lights at borders, or barbed wire fencing for example) slow down the avenues of legal migration and make other avenues of seeking asylum a more perilous endeavor.

>Immigrants are entrepreneurial with high labor force participation and have specialized skills giving them the opportunity to enter underserved markets and create businesses, increasing the number of jobs available in America. Author Thomas E. Lehman, has written articles on the controversial topic of opening Americas borders. In his article “The Benefits of Open Immigration” Lehman states that it is often thought that the policy of open immigration would lead to immigrants willing to work for less pay.


>Bryan Caplan has argued that in the U.S., which contains policies that favor high-skilled immigration, the overall long-run fiscal effect of immigrants is positive $58,000 for existing immigrants and positive $259,000 for new immigrants; thus, increasing immigration with the current ratio of high-and low-skilled workers could benefit social security programs and medicare. He states that a truly open borders policy would result in an altered ratio of low- and high-skilled workers where the productivity effect of immigration mitigates the negative fiscal impact of older low-skilled migrants. In addition to that, native-born populations also have a larger fiscal burden than comparable immigrants.

>Open borders would help save the lives of people who would otherwise have to wait for countries to decide the fate of refugees. As stated by author Sasha Polakow-Suransky, countries have enough to care for their citizens and others. Caplan has also shared that not doing anything and being a bystander is just as harmful to refugees. It is estimated that open borders would allow people to be safe and create a better world economy at the same time.

>Refugees who are in danger flee to Western countries which have provided safety and comfort. David Miliband argues that having open borders will rescue the lives of migrants who are constantly struggling to survive in inhabitable areas. According to him, accepting migrants into Western countries shows the acceptance for those in need and expresses that support and guidance is essential to saving the lives of innocent people.

CAN YOU DEBUNK ANY OF THESE ARGUMENTS?

>>16040240
It also turned the pristine North American wilderness into seas of cardboard suburbs and Walmarts.

>>16040238
>treating human beings differently, simply because they were born on the opposite side of a national boundary," is inherently unethical.
Spook. Also this treats people as disembodied souls. Rather we are evolving creatures with genetic interests and giving away your wealth to the genetically distant is as maladaptive as you get.

>>16040255
I think it's at least every other page where he proclaims how good it is that the GDP will go up.
He also advocates making immigrants basically serfs, charging them more in taxes, restricting their rights, etc.
Something particularly telling is that he recognizes that such widespread immigration will cause a plummet in communal trust, but justifies it by saying you can still trust your credit card...

>>16040260
Google "what are remittances"

>>16040223
Technology. Doesn't change economic laws ceteris paribus

>>16040268
Cry more Ted

>>16040260
The author dismisses brain drain by saying that open borders will take all immigrants, not just the smart ones. The hole in that argument is quite apparent, but that's just sort of how his arguments go.

>>16040268
You're spooked

>>16040277
>He also advocates making immigrants basically serfs, charging them more in taxes, restricting their rights, etc.
No he didn't. You advocate that by supporting immigration restrictions.
>Something particularly telling is that he recognizes that such widespread immigration will cause a plummet in communal trust, but justifies it by saying you can still trust your credit card...
Based. Real intellectuals recognize the costs of their policies and weigh them against the benefits.

>>16040280
You know what creates technology...

>>16040278
That doesn't solve the problem. Developing countries still need some domestic intelligentsia in order to properly develop, some families receiving money from overseas doesn't solve this.

>>16040151
>econ professors or econ grads

At this point, most of these types are just the high priests of globohomo. They get so invested in the system of make believe that they're no longer able to see how insane all of it is.

>"No, no, you see anon, by moving everyone into shipping container homes and feeding them a steady diet of crickets and roach milk, we can demonstrably improve our quarterly GDP growth by .09%. Now if we add Mexicans to the equation..."

>>16040310
Yes he did, I'm not going to download the book and open it again to find it, but if you actually read the book he explicitly advocates for a multitude of similiar things, like the denial of social benefits that others enjoy, because it's still better than being in whatever shithole country they were in.

>>16040240
Any country with the abundant natural resources of the USA and the significant imbalance of military technology (in its favor) with all its neighoring countries was going to do fine. Open borders/free immigration/etc likely helped accelerate the United States' development into a large continent-spanning industrial power. But once its land was settled and its initial industries established (which happened around the turn of the 20th century, roughly at the same time as the closing of the frontier), it was going to develop into a global superpower immigration or no immigration.

>>16040316
Countries where the smart people can never develop their talents are going to be poor forever regardless of what the rest of the world does.

>Muh open borders decrease wages!
Supply of workers goes up, as does demand to meet their needs(housing, food etc.)meaning new jobs are created, meaning there will be more competition as population increases slightly more than the number of jobs meaning employers will have to pay more. This is basic economics!

>>16040325
He's literally 100% correct

Guys we're forgetting that racism is good. We should be BECOMING something better, not HAVING better things. Separation, and the continued enhancement of the best.

Spoiler alert: it's White people

Open borders is incompatible with environmentalism.
>You NEED to voot for Joe Biden, climate change is an existential threat and you have to make every compromise possible in order to fight it
>But we also need open boarders, which will inevitably result in constant emissions from globe trotters, destruction of the environment in order to build more housing and infrastructure, more drilling and mining, etc.

>>16040333
>population increases slightly more than the number of jobs meaning employers will have to pay more
That literally and unironically means that the workers will have to accept less. They have to undercut the "extra" guys.

>>16040335
Then why did you deny he said that?
The arguments he uses to justify open borders I have heard before, from closeted (some more than others) racists talking about how good it was for the slaves to be traded and shipped across the Atlantic.
It's been hundreds of years since that happened, how has that played out?

>>16040333
People from third world shitholes are willing not only to accept less (housing, food, etc.), but they also there's no evidence of this phenomena actually happening, it would be an infinite feedback loop.

>>16040342
>Sierra Club opposes immigration
>a wild Jew appears
>gives 9-figure sum
>immigration gud now
The David Gelbaum Story, you cannot make this up

>>16040174
borjas faked some of his numbers KEKW

>>16040349
Yes, but think of the profits!

I'LL BE RICH!

>>16040333
*jobs more than population

>>16040356
They won't *have* to accept less if they're fully equal citizens

>>16040240
There were immigration quotas starting in the 1820s. The rise of American industry was inevitable due to geography, Everyone knows that you don't anything about what you're talking about so why don't you shut the fuck up?

>>16040356
You misread his book. He proposed such things as a compromise with people who think immigration will hurt their precious welfare state. He's a libertarian and wants nobody getting free money from the government.
The slaves were harmed horribly.
Their descendants were the biggest beneficiaries.

Neoliberals and their pet shitskins should hang

>>16040359
Sierra Club also damnatio memoriaed John Muir lol

>>16040378
>>16040240 #
>There were immigration quotas starting in the 1820s
Massive citation needed

>>16040377
>They won't *have* to accept less if they're fully equal citizens

Ethnic and cultural diversity universally undermines working class bargaining power.

The upper class knows this, which is why they have such a fat stiffy for open borders. They're just conning dumbass college leftists into doing their work for them.

>>16040378
>The rise of American industry was inevitable due to geography
Really, why didn't the Amerindians want

>>16040377
Have to? Yes they will. What's the alternative? Their shit hole country? Living in poverty in America is better than nearly anywhere else in the world. Even full citizens of this country have to accept less if they lack the skills, qualifications, or connections.

>>16040385
Of course the slaves were harmed horribly, that's my point. Our society as a whole was harmed horribly the after effects of that system, we're suffering from it to this day.
And of course he's a libertarian, I can tell because he's a complete psychopath who would justify chattel slavery from a GDP perspective if we still practiced it.

>>16040423
>Of course the slaves were harmed horribly, that's my point.
They were paid subsistence wages, could not choose the occupation of their choice, raped and beaten with impunity, and had no opportunity to educate themselves or their children to pursue better employment. Next.
>And of course he's a libertarian, I can tell because he's a complete psychopath who would justify chattel slavery from a GDP perspective if we still practiced it.
You are 100% a piece of shit liar

>>16040437
You think that this massive wave of immigrants won't be abused? You think they will have access to plentiful opportunities to get educated?
Think again, retard.
This country will look like Brazil if we have open borders. Massive favelas next to high rises. California is already turning into that with their horrific vagrancy laws.

>>16040459
We tried massive immigration in the 19th century and that literally did not happen because we don't have a fucked up Iberian legal system

>>16040121
>Honestly the entire field of Economics should be thrown into the fucking trash and re-merged with Sociology.
This. Current '''''economics'''' is autistic astrology, completely unmoored from empirical reality. Bring back political economy.

>>16040459
Are you American?

>>16040338
>>16040270
Frank Salter - On Genetic Interests

>>16040466
>immigrants weren't abused in the 19th century
>there weren't horrific amounts of overcrowding and disease filled ghettos of immigrants when this occurred
Read a history book some time.

>>16040470
Are you some country that no one gives a fuck about? Tell me how your country's open borders policy has worked out.

>>16040466
>massive immigration in the 19th century

This may be a surprise to you, but transportation in the 19th century was very different.

We didn't always have passenger jets, trains, and automobiles.

>>16040314
Science and engineering.

>>16040459
>You think that this massive wave of immigrants won't be abuse
Yes. Better question: compared to what? Trying to argue that immigration restrictions help the prospective immigrants is the most retarded argument possible

>>16040486
>Tell me how your country's open borders policy has worked out.
I'm Israeli, so we have special security situations to consider. For other countries, it's completely different.

>>16040098
China opened their border and closed it around Tibet. Now they are slowly and systematically incorporating Tibet into China. Within a hundred years any sense of cultural identity the native population had will be overwritten by China and anyone who tries to resist will be taken care of.

>>16040486
Read an actual history book. Most immigrants left the tenements within a few years or months and entered the middle class. The guy who wrote Shame of the Cities was literally an example of this.

>>16040503
Tibet's quality of life has dramatically improved with their rise in GDP.

Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand basic economic points?

>>16040121
Fuck you the birds are racist!
https://www.audubon.org/news/-bird-world-grappling-its-own-confederate-relic-mccowns-longspur

>>16040342
"Open borders" is not part of the Dem platform, moron. It is part of the GOP platform.

>>16040238
>>16040266
All those Jewish names...

>>16040511
Open borders is every party's platform.

>>16040489
Compared to a thoughtful policy that limits the amount of immigrants coming in? So that the ones we do let in have full rights, privileges, legal protections, and better opportunities? All without overly disrupting the culture and economic opportunity of the people already living here?

"Optimized GDP growth" is a stupid way to decide how society should go. For example, chattel slavery was better for GDP. And retirement related stuff is a GDP drain, we should just euthanize people the second they can't work anymore.

>>16040522
>>>>/pol/

>>16040526
Only small business owners are in favor of it, and they vote 99% for Repubs. In their ideal world, there would be no border enforcement but illegals would remain second-class citizens, so they have no bargaining power. Basically, the status quo. This is why GOP politicians talk and talk about immigration, but never do anything about it.

>>16040526
>>16040511
100% delusion>>16040526

>>16040544
>>>/reddit/

>>16040504
I will continue searching for a copy of that book, but do you have any other sources for that claim?

>We could literally end global poverty
>yeah but GDP growth ain't everything
This site is trash

>>16040511
Multiple Dem nominees either wanted open borders explicitly (eg Castro) or wanted something that was fundamentally the same as open borders (eg Bernie and decriminalizing border crossing and overstaying visas). GOP politicians will, of course, vote in favor of mass migration when it comes down to it, but they wouldn't run on it as a campaign issue like a Democrat would.

>>16040537
Unironically yes

>>16040402
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steerage_Act_of_1819#Provisions
I was wrong that it was a quota but it effectively limited the ability to immigrate to the US, alongside the already expensive cost of moving to another continent. Only the relatively well off could afford passage and then housing or land. The rural poor could only move to cities, or in Ireland to Liverpool.

>>16040158
Wtf I’m a faggot now

>>16040360
Didn't happen.

>>16040560
Libertarian economist Thomas Sowell (2001) argues that immigrants during Riis's time were typically willing to live in cramped, unpleasant circumstances as a deliberate short-term strategy that allowed them to save more than half their earnings to help family members come to America, with every intention of relocating to more comfortable lodgings eventually. Many tenement renters physically resisted the well-intentioned relocation efforts of reformers like Riis, states Sowell, because other lodgings were too costly to allow for the high rate of savings possible in the tenements. Moreover, according to Sowell, Riis's own personal experiences were the rule rather than the exception during his era: like most immigrants and low-income persons, he lived in the tenements only temporarily before gradually earning more income and relocating to different lodgings.
Thomas Sowell, The Quest for Cosmic Justice (Simon and Schuster, 2001), ISBN 0-7432-1507-9, pp. 128–29.

>>16040563
Dems just don't want the immigrants that do live here to be treated as second-class citizens. That creates an unlevel playing field in the labor market, rendering whole segments of the native workforce unemployable. The GOP's donor class, in contrast, actively wants to increase the pool of cheap labor.

>>16040582
Added to my reading list.
Thank you.

>>16040590
Both parties want the native workforce to be on the same level as an undocumented worker, yes.
Both parties are GDP first neoliberals. Both parties would bomb your house if they thought it would be good for the stock market. The DNC is the good cop and the GOP is the bad cop.

>>16040590
That's half the truth, there will always be an inherent unlevel playing field in the labor market, simply because immigrants are willing to work for so much less.
Set minimum wage to whatever you want, unless it's lower than it is in Mexico, the immigrants who come from there will work for that wage.

>Yes I want open borders, free trade and taco trucks on every corner.

>>16040597
Np
>>16040568
I didn't know about that act but hard to say it had a huge effect when you look at how many people moved to America in the 19th century.

>>16040597
what if we could turn minorities into Thomas Sowell

>>16040062
>Book that advocates open borders written by two Jews
Of course.

>>16040238

>Open border advocates argue that free migration is the most effective way to reduce world poverty.

I don't give a fuck about world poverty because I don't live in Tanzania. I care about poverty in the US where I live.

>>A literature summary by economist Michael Clemens leads to an estimate that open borders would result in an increase of 67-147% in GWP (gross world product)

muh GDP!!!!

>From a human rights perspective, free migration may be seen to complement Article 13 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights

Faggy nonsense from the morons who brought you decimal clock and acted so retarded they got guillotined and replaced by Napoleon. Rights don't exist, read Spengler.

>Professor Joseph Carens argues that the social inequality imposed by closed borders is so great it outweighs any challenges to their political or economic feasibility. He argues we should open borders based on the same reasons we reject the feudal system:

We don't reject feudalism, we're actively moving towards it. Read Hayek or literally any Marxist.

>>American bioethicist Jacob M. Appel has argued that "treating human beings differently, simply because they were born on the opposite side of a national boundary," is inherently unethical. According to Appel, such "birthrights" are only defensible if they serve "useful and meaningful social purposes"

Not deliberately depressing the wages of your citizens seems like a "useful and meaningful social purpose."

>Open borders cannot be dismissed as a utopian idea, argues Harald Bauder, because they do not propose an alternative way to organize human society

Nothing to refute here, they did it for me. It's self-admitted whining and what-iffery.

>>16040614
>Both parties are GDP first neoliberals. Both parties would bomb your house if they thought it would be good for the stock market. The DNC is the good cop and the GOP is the bad cop.

Well put.

But the bottom line is that no amount of arguing from anyone below the neoliberal elite ruling class will stop the currently unlimited flow of immigration. It will only stop when it becomes unprofitable.

>>16040508
I don't doubt Tibet's GDP has gone up, but has the quality of life for Tibetans? China is also using replacement tactics, by moving people from mainland China into Tibet where they buy up land/properties. It's harder for Tibetans to get loans now because most of the economy is controlled by China. They also monitor the movement of Tibetan citizens and especially monks. They passed a law making it illegal for three or more monks to gather in public.

>>16040618
No, the higher the minimum cost to employers, the fewer immigrants they will hire. The only advantage immigrants have in the labor market is their willingness to work for cheap.

>>16040688
>I don't doubt Tibet's GDP has gone up, but has the quality of life for Tibetans?
Ethnic groups are meaningless distinctions and quibbling about it smacks of nationalism. Read Sowell.

>>16040062
>(((caplan)))
>(((weinersmith)))

>>16040266
>>Restrictions on mobility can only be justified if it can be shown that those restrictions prevent significant harm. Since research indicates that open borders will be better for both the natives and the migrants, and at the very least have not been shown to cause major harm,

Ask anyone who has to live near the immigrants, not a bunch of professors who've already made their minds up.

>Immigrants are entrepreneurial with high labor force participation and have specialized skills giving them the opportunity to enter underserved markets and create businesses, increasing the number of jobs available in America.

Good for them, they have skills we need they can come in, otherwise they can put those specialized skills to use improving their home countries.

>>Bryan Caplan has argued that in the U.S., which contains policies that favor high-skilled immigration, the overall long-run fiscal effect of immigrants is positive $58,000 for existing immigrants and positive $259,000 for new immigrants; thus, increasing immigration with the current ratio of high-and low-skilled workers could benefit social security programs and medicare. He states that a truly open borders policy would result in an altered ratio of low- and high-skilled workers where the productivity effect of immigration mitigates the negative fiscal impact of older low-skilled migrants

Or we just take the high-skilled ones and win with no downside. Come on Brian, you can do better than this.

>Open borders would help save the lives of people who would otherwise have to wait for countries to decide the fate of refugees.

Give 'em guns, send 'em back, let them and the warlords sort it out.

>According to him, accepting migrants into Western countries shows the acceptance for those in need and expresses that support and guidance is essential to saving the lives of innocent people.

I'm not accepting of them. They let their countries go to shit and try to leave like locusts.

Tl;Dr: High HDI countries aren't some sort of global charity project and have no responsibility towards the teeming hordes.

>>16040096
So remove all non whites and then again open your borders to white immigrants.

>>16040702
>>16040665
It's all so tiresome

Does he argue open borders for everyone, or just for the USA?
The only way I'm gonna tolerate open borders is if everyone else does it. All the annoying yuppies can move to [insert trendy city here] and I can move to Patagonia or something to get away from them.

>>16040699
That only flies if the the ethnic group isn't being discriminated against.

>>16040726
The best part is that both you and the Yuppies can already do that.

>>16040726
Everyone but Israel

>>16040238
>simply because they were born on the opposite side of a national boundary,
That's not why they are treated differently. They are uneducated, unintegrated, they have no loyalty to the target nation, they increase unrest and crime.

>>16040739
We need to spam the fuck out of Open Borders for Israel. It should come up in every single debate. If that's anti-Semitic, what's immigration to America?

>>16040314
millions of 90 iq immigrants picking apples and running taco trucks

>>16040739
*Citation needed

>>16040739
>>16040763
I know you're trolling, but Israel is a special case considering its important strategic position and the fact that it's completely surrounded by hostile Muslim countries. There is also the historical significance of the Holocaust to weigh.

>>16040777
Those Muslim countries are hostile to Europe too. Why exactly does it make sense to have them immigrate there but not Israel

>>16040777
The Muslims are hostile for the exact same reason as the Mexicans: they were kicked off their land

>>16040628
The 19th century was a long one. It might take a while to dig up good statistics but try comparing total overseas emigration from Europe to internal migration. There were some particularly undeveloped regions such as Ireland and Norway where a huge number of people, even a majority of everyone born, emigrated overseas, but the trend in Europe was towards internal migration and urbanisation. Moving to America was semi-prohibitively costly and risky, especially to the frontier. People knew this and that's why they would usually emigrate in groups, usually families or in a few cases entire communities. My great-great-grandather came from a family of rich Swedish farmers and took his whole family to live in a sod house in a desolate area with no roads or even wooden buildings for the next decade.

>>16040726
>All the annoying yuppies can move to [insert trendy city here]

As a non-burger, I don't really understand this. Why would the UMC yuppie kids move to neighborhoods with severe crime/drug problems just because it's trendy to eat out at ethnic restaurants and to signal your virtuousness? The impression I got was that those people's advocacy for wokeness ends when it actually starts to threaten them, too, instead of only battering the white underclass.

>>16040769
>90 iq immigrants

How generous of you.

>>16040732
It's not really the same though. Under my plan, all the obnoxious progressive liberals from around the world would be allowed to colonize some area, like a small country sized Portland. They would stop fucking up the local communities they are trapped in because they would have their own woke theocracy to move to. I would also bring in the Nick Mullen UBI plan, where each word used on social media removes a dollar from your UBI check.

>>16040783
There are plenty of European Christian states, so they can afford the (overstated) difficulties that come with absorbing a fresh labor pool. Israel is literally the only nation on Earth that is for Jews, so it cannot afford that risk. Israel is small. Europe is large. I'm sure you can figure the rest out.

>>16040789
It is historically Jewish land.

>>16040777
>the Holocaust
pic rel8ed

Ten million could have ridden the Holocoaster and it wouldn't really affect Zionism, that had been in the works for decades

>>16040812
>It is historically Jewish land.

What the FUCK did you just say?

>>16040805
>They would stop fucking up the local communities they are trapped in because they would have their own woke theocracy to move to
Those same progs are right now moving from Blue California to Red Texas because their prog policies have ruined California. They have absolutely no self-awareness or consistency of action and belief.

>>16040669
>Rights don't exist
So you won't call the police if someone breaks into your house because the right to property doesn't exist?

>>16040799
Because the world-city is pulling in all but the truest peasants and consuming them.

>>16040062
Stop shilling this cringe-ass book.

>>16040812
Why is it 'overstated difficulties' for a European country but 'a risk' for Israel? Why exactly do Jews need a country anyway? There are about the same amount of Swedes, why don't Swedes need a country just for them.

>>16040812
>plenty
>large
our identity isn't any more negotiable than yours, too bad our non-parasitic lifestyle can support lots of people
>historically Jewish land
maybe you shoulda defended it lmao

>>16040062
one thing no on is talking about is, why is the cover so ugly? everyone looks like a souless genderless brown puppet person. why would i find open borders appealing if i associate it with a mental image like that? also, fuck off we're full.

>>16040822
They would move around the world as a monolith, once they move out everyone else can move into the places they left behind.

Anti semites FUCK OFF
Israel CANNOT take in immigrants, this is your duty.

>>16040838
"Swedes" are just an arbitrary ethnic distinction, and their numbers aren't exactly hurting right now. If they don't like Sweden, they can move to Norway, Finland, Denmark, or one of the other many countries where Northern Europeans live in peace.

>>16040855
>>16040821
It is generally accepted that Judea is Israel, hence the Jewish historical right to the land.

>>16040856
It's the favored aesthetic in the tech and finance world: diverse blob characters engaging in hip urban culture. You can sell it everywhere, but it doesn't "fit in" anywhere.

>>16040856
This is what nihilistic Jewish misanthropy wants for the world. They must be legally restricted, they are a murrain.

>>16040777
>the Holocaust

>>16040879
Jews are even more arbitrary an ethnic distinction, since they comprise multiple ethnciities, Swedes are a much more real ethnicity than Jews.

You have one set of rule for Jews, who have to be protected, who have the right to ethnic self-determination and their own country, and a completely different set of rules for white ethnicities who are not allowed any of this.

>>16040899
Yes

>>16040879
>It is generally accepted that Judea is Israel, hence the Jewish historical right to the land.
Nigga have you read the Bible? We know how ancient Jews get land. Sorry the BTFOer became the BTFO, that's what happens when you specialize in swindling people instead of war

>>16040868

>but immigration reduces social trust and cohesion
>BAH! Trust isn't important! So what if some immigrants snatch your kid and turn your neighborhood into a ghetto?
Well I'm convinced.

>>16040799
They grow up and live in diverse affluent neighborhoods where everyone is basically the same brand of progressive liberal, but they have different skin colors and ethnic backgrounds. So they assume that everyone in the world outside of the local rural conservatives is also a progressive liberal.

>>16040899
A people that shall dwell alone, and not be counted among the nations

>>16040911
That's unironically all true

>>16040879
>It is generally accepted that Judea is Israel, hence the Jewish historical right to the land.
By whom, other than Jews and their evangelical fundamentalist puppets?

>>16040938
Anti Semite

>>16040911
>We need enough trust to make Credit Cards work
This is the most stereotypically heartless thing I have ever read

>>16040911
>do these cities really scare you?
YYEEEESSSSSS THEY'RE FUCKING SHITHOLES

>>16040937
Yeah, well, I'm living in Japan which has "too much social trust" and I'm loving every moment of it. You can live in "credit card trust" United States where the cities are literal war zones, and we can agree to disagree.

>>16040240
People did not immigrate en masse until the early 20th century. Huge floods of immigrants that were absorbed into the patronage network of machine politics in the cities and turned them into gigantic ethnic enclaves and slums, which gives you half the reason for the progressive backlash that eventually emerged.

On the other hand you lose the lifestyle of the agrarian yeomanry to the decadent corruption of the rising cities. The industrialization of America destroyed its virtue. You can't put a price tag on that.

>>16040974
But goy, wouldn't you prefer a vibrant black ghetto to get shot in and tent dwellers injecting heroin and pooping everywhere else?

>>16040911
>We need enough trust to make Credit Cards work
feels like a line from a satire

>>16040062
Oh, go back to /pol/ with such bait as this! We all know here how harmful multiculti is!

Notice how American blacks behave like African blacks...
Race is very real...