/lit/ - Literature

>>16033696
>This idea is ridiculous because you can't reduce history to a bunch of formulaic "phases" that you're sure will always happen in any kind of society.
Marx didn't say any of that. I suggest you read The Poverty of Philosophy where he outlines his perspective on historical development.
Use ctfl+f to save your precious zoomer time.

>>16033705
>Marx didn't say any of that.
He did

>>16033696
Not an argument.

In a nutshell, Historical Materialism states what?

What do YOU think drives history, anon?

>>16034243
Sex

>>16033696
Actually the criticism against historical materialism is very weak. It's jus people trying to cope with their liberal ideology by saying muh pseudoscience, muh unfalsifiable. But the antagonisms of class strugle are very obvious and I would definitely want to see the world try to remove those antogonisms and give a big middle finger to all the people trying to be corporate feudal lords.

>>16034283
>class strugle
No such thing, workers need entrepreneurs like entrepreneurs need workers.
Marx has ignored the difference between monopoly feudalism and competitive capitalism.
>corporate feudal lords
like you just did

>>16034337
>entrepreneurs
Yeah and entrepreneurs don't have to become a multi millionaires by creating a hierarchical systems of employers and private property where he sits at the top like a king. Protect an idea sufficiently with copyright, patents and other intellectual property (biggest spook of them all) and what do you get? A monopoly.
Also we know the gist of so many industries already and many entrepreneurs barely come up with anything groundbreaking, they just take existing ideas and add a little gimmick or two or focus primarily on marketing their thing in a new way.
Lets take a simple thing, for example pencils. Why won't we collectivize pencil factories? Why does there have to be a CEO of pencils?
>but it's a long and proud family owned business
greedy gravlehand family who never seen poverty in their life, but they gladly let the toilet cleaners barely survive on minimum wage.
Collectivization is the right thing to do. I would also argue that we need to learn from the free and open source software movement. Machinery shouldn't be patented, they should be open source with blueprints online and engineers from all over the world should be allowed to contribute their improvements.
Also an open source business model, floor plan and everything should be digitally available and autists/academics/hobbyists/pseuds should all be able to look at a random factory or maybe even urban planning and all of that, and commit a small improvement here or there.
The problem with hierarchical structures is that they're very rigid and totally dependent on the people who're in it.

>>16034337
>workers need entrepreneurs like entrepreneurs need workers.
Objectively not true

>>16033696

No, they are not retarded. You can think of Communism as the philosophical expression of biological weakness.
It's basically a survival strategy for those whom nature would have gotten rid off due to their genetic unfitness.
Have you not noticed how bizarre and weird people who subscribe to Socialist/Communism usually are? Meek, Fragile, Testosteroneless.
These of course, are the same people that'll tell you not to judge a person by their looks, but by the content of their personality.
Its all mind games

>>16034652
>the working class just has lower T
What color is the sky in your world?

>>16033696
Yeah. I'm sympathetic to socialism but Marxism's historical materialism is just awful.

>>16034661

>>16034661

That assumes it is the working class that conjures up Communism. Which, I don't think it's true. Did Karl Marx ever work a day in his life?
It might be that he riled up the working class by giving them promises of more riches, but the idea certainly did not come from the working class itself

>>16034652
Wrong! This is how typical Marxists look.

>>16034652
yes bro look at all that low t

>>16033696
>Historical materialism is the stupidest theory ever, long-disproven and humiliated even in academia.

>>16034682
>Cherry Picking

I can do that aswell

>>16034672
Are you stupid? Communism doesn't come from Karl Marx. Marx just made a philosophical system out of it. Communism comes from the working class pausing and thinking, 'Wait a minute. I'm working 8 hours a day, along with all my coworkers, doing everything that is necessary and sufficient to keep this company running, and instead of enjoying the fruits of my labour, I'm being forced to hand it over to this dickhead at the top. Why don't we unionise and run the company ourselves?'
That is literally all you need to come to a communist position. You don't need historical materialism. You don't need the labour theory of value. You don't need an economics education. You just need to be a worker and realise that it is in your self-interest and power to overthrow the people lording over you.

>>16034681
>WORDS WORDS WORDS

>>16034652
Unironically this
We had a friendless kid at school who was socially awkward and skinny as fuck, as well as rather creepy - he was also a fanatic marxist (self-proclaimed) and would swing the Soviet flag around at every annual Sports Day.

>>16034708
>WORDS WORDS WORDS
Ow fuck, words on a literature board.

>>16034697
You're the only one who is cherry-picking. Look up actual socialist movements. They consist of working class people rising up and taking what is theirs. The sort of fangless socialism of the modern day left is a completely new phenomenon.

>>16034716
>posts unfunny "meme" to retort
seething

>>16033696
>Historical materialism is the stupidest theory ever, long-disproven and humiliated even in academia.
huh? leave your room

>>16033696
As Based Henry George wrote... Marx is the prince of muddleheads. He lacks logical habits of thought, and is a superficial thinker.

>>16034708
>readin' is fer faggots

>>16034703
>You just need to be a worker and realise that it is in your self-interest and power to overthrow the people lording over you.

Which ends in famine, and a bunch of inept idiots running a system, that ends up causing more death and suffering than the prior.
Workers are not the ones that suddenly get the idea, it is always some self-proclaimed enlightened individual (Like Karl Marx) touching the masses buttons, and making empty promises as a way to gain power, and security.
You can think of Communism as the end result of a rogue interaction of deceit between the propagator, and the receiver. It is no different than scamming, abusing, or betraying others for your own personal gain.
It comes to no surprise then, that Socialists are symbolically defined as the weak, the liers, the manipulators, the deceivers, the dishonest. Not only that, you'll find this will express in their tastes, and hobbies aswell. Such as Sadomasochism, Pedophilia, Cuckholdry, feces/fart fetishes..etc

Biological determinism is the end point, at least before you start going into Mathematics/Quantum Physics..etc which is irrelevant to talk about for this thread anyhow

>>16034652
This, the majority of self-proclaimed marxists that I've met have also been mostly strange, weak outcasts
This might be because I only meet mostly strange, weak outcasts but its a strange coincidence

>>16034716
Are left wing memes just unfunny mutations of right wing memes?

>>16034681
Something doesn't become scientific by you claiming it is.

>>16034727
He's probably talking about the serious parts of academia, not french philosophy and literary studies.

>>16034741
You've never met a Marxist in your life, nor have you ever read Marx.

>>16034697
Anifia doesn't read Marx.

>>16034741
>Are left wing memes just unfunny mutations of right wing memes?
evidently

>>16034765
You honestly think people who call themselves marxists are successful and well-adjusted?

>>16034775
Memes are digital propaganda posters. Pablum for the retarded masses.

>>16034784
Calling yourself something doesn't make it so. Anyone who engages in identity politics is by definition not a Marxist.

>>16034765
>y-you've just never met an actual marxist
What fucking kind of cope is that?

>>16034785
>t. lacking a sense of humour

>>16034775
>>16034741
Not all, but the right can't take ownership memes, we collectivize them. Also just because a meme is made on 4chan doesn't make it inherently right wing.

>>16034792
You've never met a Marxist in your life, nor have you ever read Marx.

>>16034807
False on both counts

>>16034794
>I was just pretending to be retarded. It was just a joke.

>>16034785
Wrong. Memes are more akin to poetry. And the right is actually good at poetry.

>>16034808
False.

>>16034807
My own dad is a Marxist who's read all of Marx and knows him inside out, you insufferable faggot.

>>16034813
Cringe.>>16034815

>>16034815
>admitting that your own father is a weak faggot