/lit/ - Literature

>>16023676
no book. just lurk.

>>16023676
Fight club.

>>16023676
Simulacra and Simulation
Foucault's Pendulum
Flatline Constructs
CCRU Writings 1997-2003

>>16024015
>CCRU Writings 1997-2003
so just larp? Fuck off nigger.

>>16023676
I absorbed most of the series through an entire night through my thinkpad, on the porch of a wooden shack in the tropics, surrounded by a chorus of creatures in the dark jungle, beneath the buzzing 3rd-world-rigged wires of a hurricane-sagged electrical pole, swarmed with bats, with the glorious milky way and its host all overhead

>>16024075
everything is a larp in hyperreality

>>16024075
Is Baudrillard larper for you too?

>>16024102

>>16024075
Lain is quite literally about collapsing the theory/fiction divide.

>>16025048
prove it

>>16023676
William Gibson's sprawl's and bridge's trilogy

>>16023676
Serial Experiments Lain is an anime about nothing. It behaves like a commentary, it signals to the viewer "I am saying something about the internet, I am saying something about God" but it is not. It is full of signifiers which signify nothing. There is nothing you can get from it. It is an empty audiovisual experience like something they would play on the monitor at an art gallery. All it has going for it are impressive art direction and a cute anime girl. I am not the kind of autist who thinks symbolism has to "mean something" like have some retarded encrypted literal meaning. Symbolism is meant to be evocative. My problem with Lain isn't remotely like retards complaints about Evangelion. My problem with Lain has nothing to do with symbols and everything to do with words and concepts. People think it has them but it doesn't. There is literally nothing inside this anime. It is an empty package. I actually cannot understand the mindset of someone who enjoys Serial Experiments Lain. Every time it begins to do something interesting it sabotages itself. LAIN and BEASTARS are very similar in that they are two anime that are literally incomprehensible, worthless, contentless tripe. People keep saying that these anime "say something" or are "relevant". HOW. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. FUCK.

>>16025096
Based. I like evangelion, but I too found Lain rather underwhelming

>>16025059
Like, just watch it?

>>16025249
>I can't
interesting

>>16025096
That's the point dude. It IS supposed to be signifiers signifying nothing, it's all about collapsing the divide between reality and irreality, the simulacrum, etc. See >>16024015

>>16025251
>wow i sure beat that anon by doing absolutely nothing and asking them to do all the work
Cringe.

>>16025096
>gimme an f
F
>gimme an i
I
>gimme a l
L
>gimme a t
T
>gimme a e
E
>gimme an r
R
>gimme an e
E
>gimme a d
D

>>16025266
I'm not trying to "beat" you, I'm just asking you to explain your position. The fact that you're incapable of doing so is merely a sad loss on your own part.

>>16024015
Not bad - Baudrillard is definitely key (collapsing real/simulation into an indistinguishable monism)
I'd also add
>Proclus - Elements of Theology
>Arthur Schopenhauer - Essays [Modern Library vers.]
>Marshall McLuhan - The Medium Is The Message
>John David Ebert - The New Media Invasion
>John David Ebert - Hypermodernity
>Gilles Deleuze & Felix Guattari - Anti-Oedipus
>Max Tegmark - 3.0
>Jean Luc-Marion - God Without Being
>Nick Land - Fanged Noumena

>>16025096
I hate "filtered" tards but holy shit.

>>16023676
I am pretty sure Lain is based off Luigi Pirandello's 'One, No One and One Hundred Thousand'.

>>16025290
Yeah I'm really sad right now over not explaining why Lain is about collapsing the theory/fiction divide. Damn, what a fucking loss! Fuck off idiot, next time just ask someone in good faith to explain something you don't understand, rather than posturing like you're winning internet brownie points by doing nothing.

No philosopher fully engages with the neutral philosophical implications besides Baudrillard. After reading him, you're essentially stuck on the precipice. You could maybe read Zizek but he still doesn't really get modern culture.

>>1602509
This is the kind of person who watches Ergo Proxy and enjoys it unironically. Imagine needing everything explained and answered directly on a silver plate. Imagine being filtered so hard you couldn't even pick up on the most basic idea of online interactions, and how personalities interact there. Even /a/ CGDCT tards could understand that much. Really sad.

>>16025462
meant for >>16025096

Pistis Sophia
Nag Hammadi library

>>16025462
>>16025465
>Imagine being filtered so hard you couldn't even pick up on the most basic idea of online interactions, and how personalities interact there.
Retard. The anime shoves those "ideas" in your face. As I said, it is constantly signalling that it is "talking" about things, without actually doing so. What exactly does it say or suggest about online interactions? Can you think of even one thesis from the show?

>>16023676
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ps/pageidx.htm

>>16025486
>What exactly does it say or suggest about online interactions?
The dangers of free information flow causing literal schizo cults, insane conspiracy theories, and mass delusions. The idea that the physical body no longer matters online causes a disconnect between reality and online. Think trannies being mind fucked. Hell even a basic babby tier interpretation is just if our online or real personality is the "true" one.

Your problem is that you expect to a southpark tier "and this is the moral/theme of story folks!". Its up to you to Interpret the themes and ideas of the show. Just go watch Ergo Proxy dude, you obviously require babby hand holding.

>>16025508
>>16025462
>Spoonfeeding retards

>>16025508
I have no interest in obvious themes or morals or messages. I watched Lain because I wanted to watch something like Baudrillard, Land, Virilo etc. But instead I got some meaningless goop. Here's what I remember happening in Lain: some faggot with long hair was "God" for some reason (the show likes to use theological language like this, though I fail to see any connection between the word and the concept -- he was an extremely underwhelming God, and we never learned anything about him, his intentions, his inclinations, or what he was even doing). Lain uses some DBZ powers on him. Now she's "God" and can control time and space. I'm not sure what that has to do either with the internet, as it actually exists, or with God, as he, potentially, exists. Please go watch some actual arthouse films or something instead of pretending this anime schlock is even remotely decent.

>>16025521
>"THIS SHOW IS ABOUT NOTHING!11!1!1!!!!"
>Give examples
>"I have no interest in obvious themes or morals or messages"
Next time just say "Thanks for giving me your time to explain something that I didn't understand.". Also this is possibly the hardest Ive seen someone get filtered by a FUCKING ANIME. I'm sure you have some concentrated cope to reply with, but this is the last (you) I'll give you. Please learn how to engage with people without being a spastic.

>>16023684
Die

>>16024077
nice blog

>>16025537
I think you have poor reading comprehension. I mean I have no interest in cheap South Park style "morals". Anyway, here's how I'd diagnose Lain. It includes schizo cults and internet addiction and crap in the same way that a show about the Middle Ages might include depictions of witch hunts and crusaders: it has a subject matter, and it represents phenomena that are very obviously (at least in the popular imagination) associated with it. Here's where I think you're projecting: I don't think it actually says anything like "information overabundance is a causal factor in the emergence of mass delusion". I don't think anything about the format or the narrative of the show expresses this kind of commentary. I can make some cartoon about the Middle Ages, but there's no guarantee that anything about my cartoon will actually suggest a tangible theme like "bourgeois modernity employs misconceptions about medieval life in order to justify itself to itself" or some shit. I think Lain is on the same level as your average cartoon set in the Middle Ages. It's a cheap, pop cultural representation of the thing which gratifies the viewers blandest preconceptions about the subject matter. Generally when I watch something obscure or experimental, it is either thought-provoking or emotionally/aesthetically involving, or both. Lain is neither. There is no real flicker of recognition. No tickling of the brain cells. Ask yourself this: would you have enjoyed the show as much if the main character were an ugly boy instead of a cute autistic girl?

>itt: retard so dumb he gets filtered by an anime, then writes multiple paragraphs about being filtered.

>>16025651
gonna cry?

>>16025655
>t. guy who just cried about an anime for multiple paragraphs
lol

>Mfw this thread

>>16025681
Convinced me that the average intellect of /a/ and /lit/ is the exact same.

>>16023676
of Grammatology

>>16023676
fuck off

>>16025395
>in good faith
Yeah, I'm totally sure if I didn't ask in a meme way that you'd be able to do it. Imagine getting angry at asked to expand on your point. How hard is it to just not post anything if you don't know what you're talking about? Pseuds spouting off drivel are literally the death of this board.

>>16025614
>: I don't think it actually says anything like "information overabundance is a causal factor in the emergence of mass delusion".
You literally can't have watched the show then.

>>16026060
Fighting the good fight, lad. But Lain is based, its allowed.

>>16027012
>Yeah, I'm totally sure if I didn't ask in a meme way that you'd be able to do it.
That's exactly right.
>Pseuds spouting off drivel are literally the death of this board.
Yeah they are. You know what else is the death of this board?
>>16025059
>>16025251
>>16025290
These three posts. Why? The first was a meme post as you've admitted. The second was a shitty rhetorical response meant to get under someone else's skin rather than any effortpost. The third was attacking character of someone you don't know. Maybe if you want an effortful response, you can start by framing your question right, and dropping your bullshit. I don't really give a shit about going on with you (without answering your initial question) til the thread gets archived because your behavior IS the sort of shit ruining this board, and I'm not standing for that shit. Maybe ask yourself what theory-fiction is and ask yourself why the fuck someone would say to watch a show to see for yourself if they didn't have faith that it would show itself to you. Fuck you, again, for being a total idiot at the first and now trying to hide behind some veneer of taking the higher ground.

>>16027360
You seem upset

>>16027360
You're poured far more effort and emotion into dodging the question that you ever would have just typing a few sentences explaining what you meant (or alternatively you could have just ignored the question entirely if you thought it beneath you). You're acting like such a little bitch who got found out. Full ego protection mode at this point.

>>16027371
Welcome to /lit/

>>16027404
Try again.
>Maybe ask yourself what theory-fiction is and ask yourself why the fuck someone would say to watch a show to see for yourself if they didn't have faith that it would show itself to you.
Ball is in your court. You say I'm dodging, maybe prove to us you don't dodge like you say I am? Go on.

For Lain to qualify as theory fiction it would actually have to contain or embody some theory.

>>16025521
>Please go watch some actual arthouse films or something instead of pretending this anime schlock is even remotely decent.
as someone who primarily watches arthouse, i liked lain a lot but part of that was to do with the philosophical detatchment of it - what i liked was the atmosphere and visuals, regardless of the "purpose" of the show it was a very beautiful experience in addition to igniting some introspection within myself. And what more can you ask for than beauty? I thought it presented a certain period and culture very elegantly, accurately, (in an atmospheric/emotional sense) and engagingly.
(I'm very sleepy so I might not be expressing myself particularly well here so sorry about that.)

>>16027437
I'm the anon that wrote that post. I do think that Lain is the kind of thing that I could enjoy if I found myself watching it at 3am in some kind of insomniac daze.

>>16023676
Nick Land

>>16023676
How do you guys sit through this shit? I couldn't watch more than 4 episodes, it was the most boring anime ever. This or Berserk, two of the most overhyped boring anime ever made.

>>16027452
hehe that's fair enough. as an actual insomniac a significant quantity of what i watch i watch in a kind of insomnia-induced daze so I should definitely acknowledge the influence that has torwards my appreciation of certain things

>>16027420
Because it isn't there? Because it's something you've heard from elsewhere and pulled out from your arse because it makes you feel smart? "The ball is still in your court" because you haven't done anything but state a vague wanky claim and refused to substantiate it because you blatantly don't know what you're talking about.

>>16027471
berserk is shit with incel-tier writing

>>16027435
The point is that theory (as in, something one takes to represent reality) stops being distinguishable from fiction (as in, something one deliberately creates with no particular interest in representing reality at all). SEL is very dreamlike. It quite explicitly revolves around the theme that, in our modern computer age, the line between what is real and what isn't real becomes completely blurred. That's in common with media people know better like The Matrix. The fact it's also a surreal medium serves to make it even more clear that the line is being blurred. You're supposed to get lost in this aporetic state where you don't know whether what your seeing in earlier episodes is hallucination from mental illness or not, whether things happening are ordinary real life or something simulated by computers, etc. At the end of the series you do get this big lore dump and you're told something more definitive but its point has already been made. I'm the one who suggested reading Baudrillard and Eco's book Foucault's Pendulum because the former is all about that collapse and the latter is an example of fiction that applies the same sort of theme throughout its run (in that book people deliberately create a fictional conspiracy theory and then it seems to turn out true). Flatline Constructs matters too because Fisher talks about how theory and fiction become indistinguishable there. CCRU Writings 1997-2003 through and through presents itself as if it is being honest but involves such outlandish recollections, events, and lore that you can tell it's not true, so it's trying to blur the line for you between sincerity and a sort of ironic satire, and that's done on purpose because it brings to the front the idea that deliberate artificiality and reality can be, or already are, and probably should be indistinguishable. All those themes are found in Lain.
>>16027404
And now you fucker can shut up, I've answered your question, and you can go hide in shame now because your posturing was a bunch of bullshit all this time.

>>16027477
Yeah fuck off dude. See >>16027505 and stop using pseud tactics, they don't work on anyone but fellow pseuds.
Pseud tactics include
>memes
>getting under someone else's skin before saying anything substantive
>making the other side do all the heavy lifting
>constantly assuming things about the other side such as 'clearly you just can't answer' or 'clearly you're just angry'
Fuck you, again, you suck at gaslighting.

Reminder that the creator said anyone who isn't Japanese can't understand Lain, it is meant for Japanese people

>>16027529
>browses /lit/
>doesn't understand death of the author
ngmi

>>16027517
Literally just asked you to expand on your statement. If you're so new that posting a meme actually unironically triggered you like this, then I don't know what to tell you other than you desperately need to get a grip. I'm glad you've finally done it though, thanks.

>>16027529
Yeah, buddy. Only Japs can understand all the western shit that influenced the anime

>>16027529
Reminder that they got btfo and admitted that both Japanese and Westerns thought the same.

CJK = Chiaki J. Konaka
LE= Interviewer

LE: serial experiments lain was intended for a Japanese audience. How do you feel about the international popularity of serial experiments lain, and why do you think it is so popular worldwide? From what you have noticed, how are American fans of serial experiments lain different from Japanese fans?

CJK: I feel that the reaction of the people who liked "lain" is not so different between Japanese and non-Japanese fans. They all found their own point of the theme in "lain". That is what I wanted.

LE: Are there any questions you would like to ask us American fans? Do you have any message for us?

CJK: I believe that U.S. fans caught the "Kernel" of lain. I believe that you recognized what I and Mr.Nakamura and Ueda the producer wished to tell you.


AJ= Interviewer
YU= Yasuyuki Ueda

AJ: Anything else to say to your American fans?

YU: I'm glad that everyone likes Lain! But at the same time, I kind of wonder, do people over here really understand Lain? The way I perceive things, the way Japanese viewers perceived Lain would be different from how Americans viewed it. But when I was in L.A., the fans I met seemed so very Japanese in their perception... and that kind of isn't what I wanted, because like I said earlier, I wanted there to be a clash between cultures. I wanted American fans to see Lain and think, "No! That's screwed up! That's so wrong!"

>>16027633
You don't know me dude, you can cut the gaslighting tactics. It pays to hold back on a response just to show how absolutely foolish the other side is willing to make themselves look, only to have nothing to back themselves up with at the end.
>but u got angry on 4chan, th-that means you're the real loser here........
Dude it's so easy to shoot some fuck-you's at people. That's not what it means to have your own day ruined.

>>16027747
What they didn't seem to realise was that westerners, at least in recent decades, don't actually like or respect their own culture, so a critique of it is still going to work over here

>>16027803
Or maybe they just aren't aware of the extent that Japanese culture has been westernized.

>>16027803
Well especially western anime fans back in later 90's or very early 2000's were not a very typical American viewer at all. If they had gotten some normalfag family guy watcher or something, they probably would have gotten what they wanted.

>>16027757
>gaslighting
Are you an actual 16 year old girl? Your total overreaction here to being mildly prodded speaks volumes about the thinness of your skin.
>It pays to hold back on a response just to show how absolutely foolish the other side is willing to make themselves look, only to have nothing to back themselves up with at the end.
Yeah, I'm sure that was the grand plan.

>>16027866
Try making posts without making assumptions about people you're talking. You'll see how little you have left to say if you do. Shooting fuck-you's at you is super easy to do, I don't know what kind of world you live in where you don't realize that.

>>16027960
I see a petulant little bitch, I call out a petulant little bitch.

>>16027747
He sounds like an out of touch Japanese boomer

>>16028082
Same.

>>16027471
Berserk is shit agreed but I loved Lain as it asked of me.

>>16028224

>>16027471
Which Berserk did you watch

fuck off this board at once trannies

>>16023676
In Search of Lost Time.
>how about a madaleine?

>>16027471

Patience. A lot of media will spoil you with instant gratification, this one does not. Most anime is top 10's, this one is jazz-fusion.

>>16028179
>half of /lit/ filtered by SEL to the point they either can't make it past 4 episodes, or can't even explain a single theme
Kek so much for the elitism of /lit/. Also Kino no Tabi was the best anime ever made.

>half of /lit/ filtered by SEL to the point they either can't make it past 4 episodes, or can't even explain a single theme
Kek so much for the elitism of /lit/.
Also Kino no Tabi was the best anime ever made.

>>16028311
The older anime. And it was so damn edgy. The fucking protagonist is called "Guts" lmao. Maybe I woulda liked this shit when I was 14.

>>16028515
Don't bother with the manga either.

bump

>>16025521
>>16025537
>the virgin example demander vs the chad inquirer after further reading.

never give examples here, the type who demands them will never be grateful for them. they only ask for examples so they can "prove you wrong"

>>16027452
This is how I first saw Lain. I was 10 and it was airing on the KQEH past my bedtime. It cemented my taste in anime and film (love slow shit like Mushishi and Tarkovsky).

>>16030564
>they only ask for examples so they can "prove you wrong"
I should have seen it coming desu, these people have no self reflection. Watch/read something once and understand nothing, so they write up large posts on 4chan stating it has no meaning as a cope. Bring a horse to water...

>>16030564
>>16030746
I think the horse has a right to complain if, under the influence of a mirage, you bring it to an empty water hole and keep compelling it to stick its tongue in the sand.

>>16031312
>

>>16031334
Gonna reply to my long post, my little twink, or are you just gonna bitch behind my back to any anon who’ll listen to you?

>>16031356
>child demanding attention
>can't understand he only embarrasses and degrades himself further
No. Read for my final statement. >16025537 Accept it or keep screeching, I care not since I'm free to "talk behind your back" by posting in the same thread right in front of you kek.

>>16031384
You will die with the knowledge that you failed to defend your tranny show.

>>16031411
nooooooooooooooooo

>>16031439
You will never enjoy Lain again. You will always be thinking in the back of your head about the fact you couldn’t muster a reply to my last post. You will spend every episode wondering if you would take as much autogynephilic pleasure in watching the show if Lain were ugly or male.

>>16025096
And you don't seem to understand

>>16028515
My favorite is picrel, quality nippon writing at work

>>16027033
He did, just not intelligent enough to pick up on anything. Filtered, many such cases.

>>16025537
Lain is cute!

>>16025217
i feel like the most obvious retort to that is "just because niggers can't do it doesn't mean they're oppressed"