/lit/ - Literature

YOU CAN BET ON MARTIN

How far into the book is he going to reveal that Jon is a Targaryen? I'm only on the second book, but it's pretty fucking obvious and I've been told he still hasn't made it official yet. Looking forward to that Dany/Jon sex scene, hot damn. Unless they've both died by now, I can never tell which characters are about to feel Martin's wrath. And I've heard that it only gets worse as the series progresses.

If it's good I have no complaints.

>>1600719
>second book
>series gets worse

What the fuuuuuuck

Nigger, you still have the third book to go, the magnum opus of the series. There is a general consensus I guess that the fourth book is the worst, but it's mostly Dany and Tyrion fanboys who can't wait any longer. Apart from Brienne, the book is good.

Enjoy another 10 year wait for the book after this.

>>1601375
He's written almost four hundred pages of Winds, which is probably about half. It won't take this long.

>>1600719

The problem is that he waited too long and everyone pretty much knows that Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna is the likeliest revelation. Since Martin likes to throw curveballs, he might not do that at all. Besides, Martin might want to avoid the whole incest thing if there's a relationship between Jon and Dany, who would essentially be his aunt. But then, you never know; George R. R. Martin sures loves incest almost as much as he loves rape.

>>1601382
>doesn't remember that Targ's have always married inside the family, thus their incest would just be tradition

>>1601380

He'd said he was almost done with ADwD at the back of AFfC, though. So... I am skeptical.

I read about 10 pages into a Storm of Swords and put it down. It reads like a guy who is trying to finish his plotline, and not one who wants to write another amazingly well written book.

Having everyone tell me that the fourth book is shit doesn't encourage me to pick the series back up either.

>>1601387
>ten pages
>I have read enough to suitably understand how the entirety of the book is written.

You're a fucking retard.

>>1601384

No, I did remember that. (Hence my reference to the fact that Martin likes to utilize incest.)

My point was that Jon Snow and Daenarys Targaryen are the closest characters he has to Mary Sues, so he might be reticent to taint them with something like incest. (You'll note that I also said he might do it anyway just because that's how he rolls.)

>>1601387

Ten pages? So... you read half the prologue and came to THAT conclusion?

You are aware that there are seven planned books, right? And that there are three more books between the third and the seventh?

(Also, the fourth book is great; a lot of people were just disappointed that it deferred the plots of some of the fan favorite characters.)

>>1601389
I'm looking for a very special kind of book. Specifically, one that is well written from the very beginning. Like a Game of Thrones was. Now I'll put this a way that even someone like you can understand:

How much of the book do I need to read to know what the first 10 pages are like?

Wait you mean its out?

>>1601399

Mid July release.

>>1601395
>I'm looking for a very special kind of book. Specifically, one that is well written from the very beginning. Like a Game of Thrones was.

Does anyone have a link to the opening pages of that book so I can check them out?

>>1601402

Unless you abhor fantasy, I'd strongly recommend you just get it and read it. If you don't want to buy it, your library should have it.

>>1601404
I just wanted to see what is "good writing" according to that anon.

>>1601402
This is all I could find, there's actually a short prologue before this.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0553573403/ref=sib_rdr_ex/104-9225830-8968704?_encoding=UTF8&p=S
00D&j=0#reader-page&tag=westeros-20

>>1601409
Oh wait I just noticed it includes the prologue, just scroll up.

>>1601409
Yeah, I got that also. So this is not the first paragraph?

>The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer. They set forth at daybreak to see a man beheaded, twenty in all, and Bran rode among them, nervous with excitement.

Yeah, kind of makes you want to read the whole thing. I'm a bit surprised cause there's no mention of any dragon in the whole paragraph.

now I gotta find me an AFFC to read..

hmm.. do I get another mass market paperback or do I just read that shit on my kindle.. fo free

>>1601413
Why would he mention dragons in a chapter about Bran?

>>1601382

Best little revelation I can imagine is when Tyrion figures out that he was the target for the poison at Joffrey and Margary's wedding. Joff just got in the way by eating the poisoned pie intended for Tyrion.

Very few readers has figured that one out yet.

>>1601434
People miss it because GRRM makes everyone think the Queen of Thorns poisoned him with one of the jewels in Sansa's hairpiece. Which is a nice touch, I think.

he signed a deal with HBO

he has no choice but to get off his ass and finish the next two within the next 7 years

>>1601434
>>1601441

I still think Tyrion poisoned Joffrey, but I guess it was fairly ambiguous.

>>1601457
Don't you think that while at Tyrion's POV he would have mentioned the fact (in his head at least) that he did it? Personally, I would have been quite proud Joffrey was a class A faggot.

I'm not sure about the theory that Tyrion was meant to be poisoned. It'd be interesting, but it just seems a really unreliable way to kill him. Who poisoned the pie? It was given straight to him from the server and I don't think it mentions anyone being nearby except Sansa and Joff, not to mention that it would have to be poisoned in the kitchens- you can easily drop poison and leave an entire cup of wine poisonous, but not so easy to drop it into a wedge of pie. Was the server in on the plot? They'd need to make sure they gave Tyrion the right piece of pie and didn't accidentally poison another guest. How did they know he'd even eat it? It was served late in a feast that had a stupid number of courses, and in fact, he was trying to leave at the time. Why kill him then? Tyrion isn't especially beloved, and he's not that heavily guarded. He could have been poisoned at any time. If Joff was the target, there's an obvious reason to poison him at the feast- he's been nudged into pissing off Tyrion and using him as his cupbearer, suddenly he dies, lots of witnesses will say that Tyrion was angry with him at the time. If Tyrion was the target.. what were they trying to achieve by poisoning him in front of so many witnesses? Who were they trying to blame?

I don't know. Maybe it can be justified and it could be cool if we were just being mislead, but right now, I don't think there's much to support it, while there's plenty supporting the Tyrell/Littlefinger conspiracy, plus that prophetic dream of Sansa with snakes in her hair.

>>1601502

The entire argument is complicated, but based on sound deduction.

The desire to poison Tyrion and blame it on Sansa is shared by the Tyrells and Littlefinger. LF also wants Sansa under his control. If the plot had gone off as planned Tyrion would have choked, and Sansa blamed, as many saw the hairnet when Queen of Thorns adjusted it before the wedding.

But the real argument is that is seems unlikely that Joff should have been poisoned:
Tyrion and Sansa is seated a dozen seats away from Joff. If not Joff had begun to run around among the guest they would never had gotten close to him. How then blame Sansa (and Tyrion) at all?
Follow the cup: Presented to Margary and Joff, and they drink from it. First then Joff gets pissed and brings the cup down to Tyrion, where it is emptied. And refilled from a random flagon. Then Joff is brought back on track when he has to cut the giant pie at his own place.

Only Joff derails the plans a second time, by returning once again to Tyrion. Here he drinks a bit from the cup, and eats from the piece of pie with lemon cream placed specifically at Tyrion's place.

Now, if the plan was to poison Joff with wine, how did the poisoner know that Joff would return a second time to drink from the cup?

In conclusion I think it's unlikely bordering on impossible that the wine was poisoned. So the poison most likely were in the pie, served specifically in front of Tyrion. That can easily be arranged, and who would have noticed which servant served it, or where that slice of pie came from?

>>1601534
I don't feel like Sansa and Tyrion were explicitly meant to be blamed for His Majesty goblin-shits death, but rather since they just happened to be close to goblinshit they were blamed.

Wait, what particular motive do the Tyrells have to kill Tyrion?

>>1601558
>>1601558

Because the Queen of Thorns took a strong liking to Sansa and wanted to help her out by killing the imp she'd been forced to marry

>>1601566
And the Tyrell's had already set up a marriage between Sansa and one of their own.

>>1601566
Doesn't make sense to me. Shit, the Tyrells ain't the mafia, you don't kill someone as a favor just on a whim, especially not the brother of the king - and that whole marriage thing wasn't really a problem, especially given that they hadn't consumated it. On the other hand, in the matter of Joff, they had the motive that the Tyrell daughter was going to be forced to marry a monstrous little shit. And they didn't really need her to since (iirc) they had fostered one of the Lannister claimants already?

>>1601569
And given that they had their hands on one of the Lannister brats (I think it was the girl but I can't recall god someone help me) then it's in their interests to kill Joff as it allows them to advance their claim

>>1601568
yeah, but that's a low-importance percentage play, you dig? It gets another claiming family in Tyrell hands but it's not as important as the whole Lannister thing.

>>1601569
>implying Tyrell didn't want to marry onto the crown

Margaery knew how terrible Joffrey was, she was going to marry him. Why kill him before consummation?

>>1601572
Again I don't remember if this actually happened or I'm hallucinating again but didn't the Tyrells have one of the other Lannister kids back in Tyrell-land? That being the case, they could raise her as a claimant in her own right and avoid the whole Joff-Cersei-Jaime thing altogether. And they seem... protective of their daughters.

>>1601574
Myrcella is in Dorne, so no.

>>1601558

Sansa is heir to Winterfell and the North (remember everyone thinks that Bran and Rickon are dead). As Tyrion Lannister is married to Sansa, it gives him some good claim himself through her. If the Tyrells can't have Sansa for themselves, they are not going to accept the Lannisters keep her.

So after Tyrion is poisoned, either she makes her escape with Dontos (as it happened) which almost proves her guilt, or she is caught and convicted of murder. In both cases, the Lannisters lose Sansa and the claim to Winterfell.

>>1601566
Killing the king just for an act of kindness is not like any sensible person playing the game of thrones would do

>>1601575
Sonumabitch! Shouldn't try to theorize before I've had caffeine.

>>1601576
Do the Tyrells care that much about the North, though?

>>1601574
They might have Rickon, but I don't remember. Haven't read the books in a long time.

>>1601579
It's a power play, really. The North is big, and before Robb's death they were kicking some ass. Now, with his death Sansa would be heir to the Winterfell which is the seat of the new "northern kingdom" under the King in the North.

>>1601534

>How then blame Sansa (and Tyrion) at all?

Weren't the jousting dwarves Littlefinger's idea? Easy for him to suggest it would be absolutely hilarious for Joffrey to use Tyrion as his cupbearer as well, setting up conflict between them. Sansa's blame is easy. LF kidnaps her afterwards, making it look as if she has fled (husbands and wives share crime in ASOIAF). There's also the poisonous hairnet. Everyone saw her wearing it, and it matches the description of strangler poison. In fact, Tyrion himself wonders if she did it, and it's suggested that pouring the wine out may be one of those fits of gallantry that he's been said to be prone to, although we don't get any insight into that.

>Now, if the plan was to poison Joff with wine, how did the poisoner know that Joff would return a second time to drink from the cup?

If the poisoner is someone who was by his side all night, who would be expected to share that cup and need to know when to avoid it, and is granddaughter of the Queen of Thorns. Margaery was standing with him at Tyrion's place when he died. She could have poisoned the cup.

Having said that, the pie theory is interesting and LF is notorious for manipulating and misleading people, so it'd be cool if we do find out about a conspiracy to kill Tyrion. I think it would need further justification, but that's what the upcoming books are for.

>THIS ISN'T LITERATURE
>IT'S FANTASY TRASH

>>1601597

if you think you're butthurt now, just wait until June/July/August.

i notice the release date of the book coincides with about the time i'd guess the television series to be ending

>>1601572

>Margaery knew how terrible Joffrey was, she was going to marry him. Why kill him before consummation?

To leave her still a lovely young maiden from a very wealthy and influential family, still an extremely desirable match.. for Tommen, a gentle and easily manipulated young boy. Get rid of Cersei, and the Tyrells will control the throne.

>>1601608
>maiden
That's certainly not true.

>>1601576

One problem I have with that idea is that wouldn't it have been far easier and more efficient just to kill Sansa in the first place? I mean, if she didn't manage to escape after Tyrion's death she could easily have been married to Tommen or some other close Lannister relative. It just seems to be foolish risk-taking, especially considering they would have had much more time and opportunity to kill Sansa when and where they pleased.

Honestly though, considering we only know a few garbled facts and how Martin is with stuff like this it wouldn't surprise me too much if it some third party trying to kill either Joffrey, Tyrion or someone else entirely was actually to blame.

>>1601597
>stoplikingwhatidon'tlike.jpg

>>1601619
If you kill Sansa you lost the North, which is inefficient.

>>1601623

But in the plan I responded to either she escaped with Littlefinger, thus giving him the North; or she was captured, giving Lannisters ample time to marry her off and create a claim on the North.

Jon is fucking boring and I can't be bothered to give a shit.

I wanted to fuck Theon but he got all kidnapped and shit

Dany is mad fuckable but has loldragons so I can't be bothered to give a shit.

Sansa is a cunt and I hope lil' fingers rapes her shit.

Sambo is a fat cunt and I like his shit.

Jaime is pretty cool guy and I like his shit.

Bran is a wtfamireading.jpg and I am confuse about his shit.

>>1601617

She could well be a virgin. Renly was interested in Loras, not Margaery. He'd have probably slept with her at some point to get an heir if he hadn't died, but it was largely a marriage of convenience. He already had her brother who he was definitely sleeping with, and he may have had no interest in girls at all.

Even Cersei thinks it's possible that Margaery is a virgin. She makes several snide comments about Loras and Renly, indicating she clearly knew about them, and she laughs and mentally thanks Margaraey for going horse riding so much, and says she hopes it was worth it. Seems to be suggesting she thinks Margaraey is a virgin, just one who has broke her hymen through riding.

When taken into the church she was declared not a virgin (which I'm not saying is 100% true but I doubt they'll just lie about every little fucking thing for the hell of it)

>>1601646
Wow, I always like to hear your thoughts on the characters. Very thought out, and always spot on. You have a great mind and opinions.
Is it possible you can create a blog to better voice yourself? I notice you're on 4chan a lot, and you seem to really need to get your personality out there.(which is why you have a clever name, which is funny!)
Keep being cool. Be sure to post a lot more, I really enjoy it.

>>1601662
1/10

>>1601382

I honestly fail to see how the two would ever get together.

Dany is an annoying cunt with a mongol horde poised to rape the Westeros and Jon is (hopefully) about to cross his event horizon.

Plus, them getting together would be the shittiest plot development imaginable.

>>1601662

>>1601659

Based on her hymen being broken, which they know can happen without losing her virginity. Besides which, Kettleblack broke under torture and admitted he never slept with her and it was part of Cersei's plotting. Cersei has since been arrested by the church.

It is possible that Margaraey isn't a virgin, but if not, she appears to be a lot shrewder and more clued in than people think. The important thing for her is that in the eyes of most people, she's a virgin. People accepted that she didn't sleep with Renly, helped by it being widely known among the court that Renly was into men. Joffrey died before that relationship was consumated. Kettleblack admitted that Cersei made him lie. Tommen is a little boy. Most people will believe her, regardless of the truth.

>>1601673
>Jon is (hopefully) about to cross his event horizon
what are you talking about?

>>1601687
He's gonna be the bro from Jurassic Park but then go into space.

>>1601689

is it not enough to ruin this whole board? you really need to come in this thread and be a douchebag?

>>1601687

Well, he already switched one baby for the other one in order to save the "royal" baby from the pyre and I have my fingers crossed for further manipulative and morally ambigious moves on his part. After all, SOMEONE from the main (living) cast has to finally pull his head out of his ass and stop being a retard.

>>1601694
I like asoif and I like Sam Nielson.

I mean shit man whadya want from me?

Improving /lit/ by bumping /lit/ threads.

>>1601864
Just when I was going to, I've had this thread on autorefresh for hours but no new posts, but then I see a green blinking 1 on the tab.
so, uh, doublebump I suppose

Oh, look, more fantasy fags creaming their pants at rapefics that will prevent them from getting laid.

Typical basement dwellers. Maybe if you shaved and wore clean clothes for once instead of sitting in your basement masturbating to silly books about knights and dragons you'd actually be able to get laid and get a job.

>>1601871

A_thread_of_trolls.jpg

>>1601874

>>1601971

You, sir, are a gentleman, and a scholar. Let me just save that.

>>1601971
Thanks, been looking for this.

It's a good read, nothing fancy, but better than most of the trash in the genre. I am disappointed by the time in between books, since I don't think the writing is all that intensive or clever.

I would say the characterization is the best aspect of Martin's work, and the plot twists, though usually predictable, still keep you on your toes because you know he isn't afraid to kill the good guy.

Characters tend to be 1 dimensional in most stories, and it is even worse when it comes to fantasy. However, I find that I can, at the same time, like and hate some of the POV characters in this series.

With any luck, he'll finish the series before he dies. Considering how horrible Legend of the Seeker was, I don't have much hope for the TV series.

>>1602058

I think you're going to be a little shocked at the difference in production value when HBO throws it's whole weight behind something.

>>1602058
1) The source material for Game of Thrones is hugely better than the source material for Legend of the Seeker. The Sword of Truth series is absolutely atrocious after the first book; ASOIAF is generally very good.

2) The people making the adaptation are entirely different in terms of resources, skills, and aims. In making Legend of the Seeker, Sam Raimi was making a campy fantasy adventure show on a budget, and that's what we got. On the other hand, HBO is making a serious drama on a much larger budget.

So citing Legend of the Seeker as precedent for Game of Thrones? Kind of dumb.

I hope you are right.
My reservations are based on the ability of one to capture an epic fantasy series on the small screen.
Lord of the Rings, I would imagine is one of the better possible outcomes, but, even then, with all of the extended editions, I am still happier with reading the books.
The advantage Martin has, I think, is that there aren't a ton of creatures to create, and the magical aspects are very toned down compared to most series.

Terrible kiddy garbage.

>>1602092
Your opinion, such as it is, has been observed and ignored. Feel free to return to your life now.

>>1602092

>>1602107

Only children resort to trite image macros when someone hurts their poor little feelings.

It's kind of like the 4chan equivalent of throwing a tantrum when daddy tells you not to pee on your classmates.

>>1602121
Wow, you're taking this way too seriously.
Relax. Laugh a little.

>>1602121
hahahahahahahahahahah

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

meh, trailer looks bad
they do the dialogue word for word
the dialogue works in the book, but it doesn't do so great when acted out

>>1602121

>>1602144

Don't you mean monologue?

>>1602144

Actually, scratch what I just said, I misread the sentence. 8)

>>1602289

don't think so
i mean... unless monologue has another meaning besides the one person speaking

>>1602293

I know. Refer to

>>1602292

I was bored so i shooped this.

>>1602607
I wish people would post in this thread, but I suppose it's FFFFFFRRIDAY NIGHT MOTHAFUCKA which is not a perfect time for reading.

>>1602632

It's just been so long we've all forgotten what the fuck was going on.

>>1602648
Personally I'm still pretty much ASOIAF-ed out from the epic ASOIAF thread Thursday.

>>1602676
Same. All that theorizing. Tomorrow or Sunday should be a ripe time for another big thread.

without a doubt one of the shittiest series ever
when i was reading it on my kindle and people asked me what i was reading i was ashamed

i have never heard of any realization about jon's heritage...i always thought it was a woman of the frogmen from something i read in the second book.. the pov im most looking forward to are bran and dany

>>1602713
Personally, while I wish to follow Dany's journey as a character she's pretty annoying. Jon is a bit of a mary sue but he is getting more interesting with his appointment as Lord Commander and since George said he'll become more of a "gray" character in ADWD.
I agree with Bran though.

>>1602708
please refer to
>>1601971

Wow, I never actually thought Renly might be gay for Loras. I just assumed he had not real interest in Margaery, as he was ready to sell her to Robert if Cersei was disposed of, and as such only married her to get the support of Highgarden.

i hope bran gets killed and dany gets raped and killed and everyone dies except tommen hes a badass

Am I the only one who hates all the Starks?

Don't get me wrong, I liked Ned. I also liked his eldest son, before he got killed. But all the others (Including Jon.) are just annoying as fuck.

>>1602733
Jesus, man, Renly being gay is practically textual

>>1602708

You should have been ashamed just for reading fantasy in the first place, much less admitting it.

Poor form, chap.

It's about time.

Too bad this is now >>1601971

I'm mostly fine with the casting for the TV series, but it baffles me how they think that dogs can pass off as wolves. Maybe as small puppies, but dogs otherwise look completely different even to a person with no dog knowledge.

>>1602733

Yep, author confirmed it. It's easy enough to miss as most of the evidence comes from gossip and rumours that could just be attempts at slander, but it seems it was quite widely known among nobles and court types that Renly had a thing with Loras.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/lorasrenly.html

>>1602917
Did you make this picture? Just saw it in a /v/ thread with a very similar post

>>1602968
damnit, captcha ate the pic

>>1602968
>>1602983
Yeah, I did. Looking forward to the show as well, but this issue just keeps bugging me. HBO could have done better.

it's illegal to use actual wolves on a film set. But, yeah. I agree that the dog cast is pretty bad.

I heard that they were going to be fixing them up with cg shit in post production.

>>1603144
Yeah wolves could very easily be illegal in some countries, and wolves, as they are wild animals even if bred in captivity, are unpredicable as are half wolves.
Which is why I suggested Tamaskans, they have probably the closest appearance to a wolf without having any major wolf genes.

Well I'll be damned. Martin actually did finish the book before dying of a heart attack. I owe a friend a dollar.

>>1603144
They kinda have to, didn't Ghost have deep red eyes like the weirwoods?

>>1602983
>which ones are wolves, and which are tamaskans?
1st is a wolf, 2nd is a dog, 3rd is a wolf, 4th is a dog, 5th is a wolf, 6th is a dog, 7th is a wolf, 8th is a dog
am I correct?

>>1603190
The only wolves are 3 and 5, 1 and 7 were dogs

>complaining that a wolf-like dog isn't wolf-like enough

I love this series but sage for neckbeardery

Oh well I am honestly looking forward to the series. I really enjoyed the books and HBO might not be the worst studio to do it.
I really liked their Rome series and if Game of Thrones is as good as that, I am quite happy.

I'm excited about this. Too bad most of the book will be in the same timeline as the last one, so it is hard to have events that will change a lot of things very fast, since what happened in this book was hardly referenced in the last one.

The one I'm expecting the most is not this one, but the one after. I wonder what will happen with Sansa. I think that right now her part is the one that has the potential to be the best.

Btw, I'm usually not in this board. I thought you people wouldn't like ASOIF, since it is quite "popular" (and fantasy). I'm kind of surprised.

>>1603497

Oh well I am really looking forward to this one, I wanna know what happens to Dany, Tirion and Jon!

Sansas part could be interesting, but I really hate her or lets just say I dont like her...

I get the feeling that Jamie will play a great part in the book after this one! I remember when someone told him that one day he might not be called kingslayer but goldhand if he does good things.
So I somehow expect him to do something heroic when the Others finally attack. And well since I know GRRM he might die.

>>1603540
I don't really care about Danny and Jon. I think they are kind of bland.

>>1603540
I personally never cared much for Sansa, up until book 4 where I realized she has started to learn. She used to have her head in her songs and tales, but now that she has learned that the world is not such a happy place she has serious potential for becoming a great schemer.
And I like Jaime, of course I first thought he was just another man with an inflated sense of self-worth, but when he lost his hand and realized he had been just a sword hand, nothing more, I started to feel sympathy. Most people did, I think.
I think he judges his new sword fighting skill too harshly, he has begun to overtake Ser Ilyn. Ilyn might be a bit rusty, but he used to be Tywin's captain of guard, and you don't get to such a position without a certain degree of skill. Maybe his cackling laugh is not meant to be insulting.

>>1603772
I feel Jon has become much more interesting now that he is Lord Commander. I've read some of the spoiler chapters for ADWD, and Jon has changed quite a bit with the responsibility he now has. However, I can't feel but to wonder if we'll see the 1000th Lord Commander by the end of the series, 998 is so close.

You're right about Dany, as a character she is nothing but a little girl who has lesbian sex and dreams erotic dreams of blue bearded men.
But she has the dragons, and everything is starting to concentrate around her. Her setting, along with the Wall, are the most interesting ones.